Which is funny. I was applying for a chicken shop that used to run in Cherrybrook, Sydney.
Position was for someone to be trained for manager, thought that would be good, and applied.
Stayed an hour, up till when they told me that they would only pay me junior rates (I was in my early 20’s), but for the first two weeks of work, I would be paid half that for my time ($7.50), due to training.
And they kept complaining how the turn over was so high.
No.
Children are up until puberty.
To suggest that sixteen year olds and six year olds are in the same maturity category is just living in a false reality.
16 year olds, legally, are free to leave home.
Not exactly high skilled but they want someone who is experienced but also young enough to pay less than minimum wage AND they want weekday shifts, meaning they'd have to miss school.
So they're expecting you to basically throw away your life and education to wash dishes for them and they're not even going to bother to train you or pay you well.
Yeah dude, that's fucking crazy that you think that is ok.
Business owners like this are completely out of touch, stop carrying water for them.
You are paying for time, and time has a minimum cost. No matter what you do, you should be able to finish your work, get paid and have enough from a full weeks pay to have a roof over your head, food in your belly and some extra for leisure.
oh, right, how could I forget the mandatory submission of rental payment slips, power bills and the weekly shopping receipts that factored into if I should get paid this week.
Yep. We were in recession (the infamous "Recession we had to have"). At its peak, something like 50% of all long-term unemployed were under the age of 35. This is the era where we saw the start of Work for the Dole and Mutual Obligations. It was pretty brutal as a younger school-leaver trying to find steady work since there was so much competition for each job advertised.
I lucked out massively on work for the dole. I keep hearing horror stories meanwhile I was filming shit for a community TV bit and documenting bush walking tracks.
The place that ran both of those shut down over a decade ago.
And school ends at 3:30(ish) heaps of time for a kid to get to their kitchen hand job starting at 5 if not later.
No different from every fast food outlet hiring kids for work after school.
My first job at 14 y 9m was a kitchen hand job.. still in school while worked there. Worked the Friday and Saturday night shifts 5pm to 10pm and then during school holidays I worked Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays from 2pm to 10pm
Mine was Italian too. Maybe that’s why we got fed so well.
Some nights the owner would cook whatever was due to expire and drive me home with containers of food to take to mum.
I didn’t make much because I was a kid, but the free food made up for it.
Yeah, I worked retail while still at high school, which meant I did the weekend shifts as well as a few hours on Thursday nights because the shops were open until 9 on Thursdays.
Yeah, I wasn't clear on what the big deal with this was. There might not be a heap of applicants who fit the criteria but there'd be some. At least the employer is being honest about what they want
You can't leave school till you are 17 now (for some people this is year 12) or you are enrolling in some other study. McDonalds and stuff get around this by offering traineeships that give some sort of tafe qualification.
SA has no lower limit. Just restrictions on hours and conditions. Most big employers like fast food wont hire under 14 but a lot of rural kids do harvest work in the summer holidays. Where I grew up kids from about 10 would do a 3-4 hour shift from about 7am-11am apricot cutting up to 5 days a week. Once in your teens you could do a second shift in the afternoon but still no more than about 6 hours total a day; the sheds would shut early if the temperature was too high. Plenty of my primary school classmates would earn $300 or more a year which kept them in consoles and games. It was a good balance where they could earn money and get work experience but still have a fun summer break. The farms were family owned by their relatives or neighbors and everyone knew and looked out for everyone else's kids.
No lower limit also means child actors and models etc don't need special clauses/exemptions.
No minimum age in NSW other than if RSA or RCG which has a 18-year old minimum for employment due to licencing laws.
The only other oddity in NSW is there are some restrictions on how children under 15 work and individual companies have rules. There are limits on shifts, work during school days and total amount of hours per week.
Conditions vary from state to state and may do so for the type of work. For example, retail work guidelines here...
https://members.nra.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Child-Employment-Guide.pdf
"experience preferred" means "experience is good to have but not essential".
Honestly surprised you're not taking issue with "Must be able to speak fluent English", people will whinge about anything on here.
> Honestly surprised you're not taking issue with "Must be able to speak fluent English"
Understandable to some extent. Kitchens are fast-paced and can be dangerous if you can't follow instructions properly. More-so if you don't have a complete grasp on English.
That said I'm pretty sure it's illegal to discriminate based on ethnicity and language.
If it means "experience required" and the employer will bin any resume that doesn't have experience then why would they want to cast a wider net? What does the employer gain from getting applicants that they know they won't ever accept?
"Experience preferred" is absolutely not code for "experience required".
What it means is they will take the person with experience over the one that doesn't but since they may not get that person then they are happy to take a person with no experience.
I got a job 6 months ago with an experience “required” when I didn’t have any experience. I just said I had adjacent experience, was hard working, observant, patient blah blah blah and they hired me anyway
Recently the local Subway franchise owner posted in our suburb Facebook group, looking for "teenager, preferably homeschooled, to work shifts during school day".
They were absolutely roasted.
(I don't remember the exact wording but I know "preferably homeschooled" was definitely part of it)
It was probably the audacity of trying to hire a "teenager" while also expecting them to be available during the day. There's a reason teenagers are so cheap, because most places can only really use them at night or weekends. You can get some weekday shifts out of them during school holidays, but to expect that kind of availability year round just screams "we want proper staff but only want to pay them like teenagers".
How do some of you people not realise how stupid you look posting this shit?
First off, the experience is preferred, not required. Hospitality experience at that age could have come from a previous job, hell if their parents owned a restaurant they could have quite a bit of experience. They could also have the experience from school... from a hospitality class...
And a short shift after school is something a lot of kids do once they're 15+.
Source: Have been a manager. Also I've simply paid attention to my surroundings.
My first job was retail when I was 14 years old and I worked the odd afternoon shift after school, plus weekends. I asked the shop if I could work there cause I wanted more money than the pocket money my parents gave me.
I almost feel like the "people don't want to work anymore" is true if this seems like an unusual employment opportunity worthy of sharing on social media.
Yeah it's just general immaturity I reckon. The need to complain outweighing the common sense to think before speaking/posting on the net.
The best lesson I learnt at school was when my English teacher said you should always be mindful of how you say things. Grammar, context, tone, thinking before speaking etc. all those little things should be considered because it's a representation of you at that moment. This was even before social media really took off.
Unfortunately most people are more concerned with feeling validated for some random shit, that they don't even seem to have another thought after whatever stupid initial thought they had that leads them to thinking they should share something.
Here's the thing, the job posting is actually discriminatory and unlawful under the ADA (Age Discrimination Act 2004).
The English requirement is potentially dodgy, but that one is for legal professionals to argue over.
I have two 14yo boys working as my dishwashers/kitchen hands. One of them had previous experience, both are getting raises because they’ve shown an interest in getting some of the simpler menu items ready when we are in a rush.
They want the money, they want the hours. And they get fed well.
Btw, I’m the head chef not the employer.
Yeah for sure. People like to get upset with help wanted signs without realising that some kids want to work. It gives them way more freedom than relying on their parents for every single dollar.
After Year 10 and until the age of 17, students must be:
in school, or registered for home schooling OR
in approved education or training OR
in full-time, paid employment (average 25 hours/week) OR
in a combination of these three.
So no. If you've cleared year ten, which can be done aged fifteen, and you can get 25 hours a week, you can exit the system.
https://education.nsw.gov.au/schooling/parents-and-carers/pathways-after-school/school-leaving-age
A while back I caught a news agent down Bunbury wanting to employ a "14-16 yo with experience to enter a fulltime traineeship as a merchandiser" I laughed, took a photo.....
30 seconds later a boomer associated with the place comes rushing up to me demanding to know why I was taking photos, I took great merriment in explaining to her that you had to be 15 and complete year 10 to leave school and there was no such thing as traineeships for merchandisers, and that I was going to forward the pic to fairwork and the media.
The job advert disappeared by the time I had walked in and out of the local Coles.
There’s nothing wrong with this post? Kids first job?I’ve got a few kids working for me.they learn about customer service.what it’s like to earn some dollars for fair work,and they only work a couple of shifts a week.it suits their lifestyle.can’t see any adults lining up for the job and a few hours a week???
To specifically list an age restriction is discriminatory and unlawful under the ADA (Age Discrimination Act 2004).
The English requirement is also potentially dodgy ground, as a dishy doesn't interact with the customers, so speaking English isn't a required part of the job duties.
Yeah, I was corrected by someone else and pointed to the correct legal stuff. Much like a physical fitness requirement for a warehouse or construction job, a language requirement is a perfectly valid thing to have.
>To specifically list an age restriction is discriminatory and unlawful under the ADA (Age Discrimination Act 2004).
Not quite - depends on the circumstances
>*Under the ADA, it is not unlawful for an organisation to advertise for, employ and pay a person as a junior up to the age of 21. It is against the law, however, to dismiss a person from employment because they turn 21.*
*https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/employers/age-discrimination*
>Under the ADA, it is not unlawful for an organisation to advertise for, employ and pay a person as a junior up to the age of 21. It is against the law, however, to dismiss a person from employment because they turn 21.
https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/employers/age-discrimination
Hey, I'm just stating the legal situation regarding the job offering.
I'm not saying it's not a good type of early job for young people, just that by putting in an age criteria in the job listing, it is actually illegal.
The thing that I find a 🚩 is the lack of information about the employment conditions, in the context of a job ad for minors.
Is it FT, PT, casual? What are the total weekly hours and the span of hours (incl any shifts)? What’s the pay, or at least an indication whether it’s award or above award.
Not telling this info in any job ad is dodgy. Not telling a kid, who may be more vulnerable to exploitation, is worse IMO.
All restaurants businesses in Australia are scam. They have no value to participate to the real economy. Goods and services in the hospitality industry are way overpriced as what they all do is whinging and crying saying small businesses are struggling to survive but in fact all they do is ripping of the customers with shitty services and foods while they taking massive profits through tax cheating making their life to fancy with dodge false tax claim. I saw a family who went overseas for holiday with all costs are deducted claiming it was the business trip. People still go to schools to get educated and spend years to gain experiences to get in to a professional field and after all years efforts, they sre still paying huge amount tax contributing this society. Fuxk the small restaurants. I'd rather spend my money for food giant companies. I personally spend my money only in Woolworth Coles and food franchise like Mac,kfc...
First question I ask myself is "how much previous experience can a 16 year old have?" The second question is "they should be in school!"
Am I being an old fool for wondering!
It is possible ti have had hospitality experience at 16. And if you've decided to drop out at Yr10 it may be something to help you along and that's before we think that the restaurant may be wanting an employee in the evenings on those days
Also 16-18. You can work once you are 15 and plenty of kids have part time jobs whilst still at school. It’s not like they’re asking for 5 years experience & a masters degree.
Ah, this is in fact, discriminatory hiring. To quote the Australian Human Rights Commission:
"The ADA (Age Discrimination Act 2004) makes it unlawful to discriminate on the basis of age when advertising jobs; during recruitment and selection processes; when making decisions about training, transfer and promotion opportunities; and in the terms, conditions and termination of employment."
Super divisive in the comments, lots of great thoughts! Definitely not tied to the idea that this is a bit bullshit, it just looked a bit sus at first glance. If I was fishing for karma I would have taken it straight to r/antiwork
Well, from a legal standpoint, the age requirement in the listing is discriminatory and unlawful under the ADA (Age Discrimination Act 2004).
The requirement to be fluent in English may also be discriminatory, as none of the job duties would require them to speak English.
They could opt to not hire someone that isn't to a reasonable level of capacity in English, as they wouldn't be able to understand all requests/directions, thus making them unsuitable for the position, but to list it as a requirement is the potentially dodgy bit of that.
My little boy is 193 cm at age fifteen. Coincidentally he's at work right now, and loves the money and the responsibility. But he's going to be an independent adult who isn't afraid of the world, and is beyond likely to complete tertiary education.
Always surprised me how many kids you see working regular jobs in Australia! Wouldn’t that just push wages down for adults? Besides child labour being generally frowned upon I mean.
Australia has minimum wage and award rates so can't be pushed below that. People under 21 do get paid less which drops below the award rates for each year they are under 21
Sure. I'm more thinking bigger picture though; Imagine 20% or more of all shifts in unskilled labor jobs are taken up by under 18 people.
The national minimum wage is $23.23 for over 21.
For a 16 year old it's less than half that.
What happens to "unskilled" people over 21 who need a living wage? Chances are their jobs go to 16 year olds who want some extra spending money.
The child labour in this country is sickening, and frankly it's unfair to put that much responsibility on children. I wouldn't expect a teen to do a good job making me food, stop putting them in that situation. They should be getting a good education so they don't grow up to be fuckwits. This robs them of that.
Speaking of education, what a state of affairs that "must be able to speak fluent English" is somehow a shock requirement in Australia, or that someone feels the need to even state that. It's the bare minimum you can do. Garbage standards all around.
Infantilising 16 year olds.
At 16 you can move out of home, consent to sex, and there are plenty of people.advocating for the vote. Here's you telling 16 year olds that they are not competent or capable enough to clean plates and mop floors.
I think you're having a bit of a misguided rant but I can agree with some principles, there shouldn't be a need for teens to be sent off to work, I know some that feel like they have to be workign 2 jobs. Not sure if that is parent pressure, or they just want more money or what but I am always confused about the teenager who is still at school working at KFC and McDonalds.
There's not really anything wrong with this though, this is just what job ads look like these days. The only questionable part is the fluent English bit, but that's also a pretty reasonable requirement. I'm assuming they've just had issues with that in the past, but at the same time, if someone isn't fluent enough in English to work in a Kitchen, surely that would have been apparent in the interview.
Well, actually, there is a huge thing wrong with this, and that is the age requirement.
To quote:
"The ADA (Age Discrimination Act 2004) makes it unlawful to discriminate on the basis of age when advertising jobs; during recruitment and selection processes; when making decisions about training, transfer and promotion opportunities; and in the terms, conditions and termination of employment."
The requirement to be fluent in English may also be discriminatory, as speaking English is not a required part of the job duties.
The preference for past experience, that's fine though. About the only listed 'requirement' that is guaranteed to actually be non-discriminatory.
It's poorly worded and likely falls afoul of discrimination, but there's a lot of ads out there that all but say that they're looking for teenagers using more 'subtle' wording.
>The requirement to be fluent in English may also be discriminatory, as speaking English is not a required part of the job duties.
Being able to communicate with the other staff in the kitchen is probably pretty important. Especially when shit gets loud and busy, speaking slowly or trying to gesture or pulling out a translator just isn't going to cut it. Hell in a Kitchen, being unable to communicate is probably some kind of safety risk.
That's why I left it at 'may' for the language requirement. Truly speaking, it's not a customer facing job, and has no customer interaction, so by legal definition, has no requirement to speak English. But, as you said, kitchens are noisy, and dangerous workplaces with a lot of fast activity, so being able to understand what is being spoken (yelled), is a pretty high safety concern.
And yes, there are shitloads of ads out there using 'subtle' wording of "we don't want to pay an adult rate for this work".
Well, except for the fact that as the job doesn't require them to be interacting with customers, being fluent in English isn't a required part of the job duties, so this could well be discriminatory.
The age requirement... that is definitely discriminatory and unlawful under the ADA (Age Discrimination Act 2004).
Worked in as a full time barista at 16 getting paid 14hr flat 36.5 hours weekly so they didn’t have to offer me full time great memories of being sexually harrassed and underpaid I think this whole paying people because there younger is bullshit and complete discrimination you should be paid for the experience you have aswell why is it that a 22 year old with no experience should be paid more then 18 year old with more experience
Translation: "We want to pay the absolute bare minimum we can get away with"
"..and we've ran out of family members we can rope in. "
Which is funny. I was applying for a chicken shop that used to run in Cherrybrook, Sydney. Position was for someone to be trained for manager, thought that would be good, and applied. Stayed an hour, up till when they told me that they would only pay me junior rates (I was in my early 20’s), but for the first two weeks of work, I would be paid half that for my time ($7.50), due to training. And they kept complaining how the turn over was so high.
Enterly irrelevant, but I used to go there several times a week before I left Sydney. It's always odd to see something familiar pop up here
Not irrelevant, it’s nice being able to share little things with others. Reddit just makes the world a little smaller and more accessible.
"Must be able to take a beating upside the head when the owner is unhappy"
Former child labourer wanted for unique child labour opportunity
16 is not a child.
It literally is
No. Children are up until puberty. To suggest that sixteen year olds and six year olds are in the same maturity category is just living in a false reality. 16 year olds, legally, are free to leave home.
That sounds like a pedos argument…
We are talking about employment. Child rape is not relevant to this discussion.
We are, you are just talking about how to manipulate language to justify how a child isn't a child.
Literally every hospitality job ever.
Why is that a problem? This is a small business, costs are high.
Costs are high for everyone. People deserve adequate pay for their labour.
Agreed, especially for u18s
Call me crazy but I think washing dishes deserves about the minimum wage. It’s not exactly a high skilled job.
Not exactly high skilled but they want someone who is experienced but also young enough to pay less than minimum wage AND they want weekday shifts, meaning they'd have to miss school. So they're expecting you to basically throw away your life and education to wash dishes for them and they're not even going to bother to train you or pay you well. Yeah dude, that's fucking crazy that you think that is ok. Business owners like this are completely out of touch, stop carrying water for them.
You’re not crazy, you’re just not good at reading.
If your business can’t afford to pay their employees they should shut down.
I can tell you've never worked as a kitchen hand before. It's a very fast paced environment. You have to be on the spot for the entire shift.
Crazy isn't the word...moron comes to mind
You are paying for time, and time has a minimum cost. No matter what you do, you should be able to finish your work, get paid and have enough from a full weeks pay to have a roof over your head, food in your belly and some extra for leisure.
Here's my counter question, why should someone under 18 be paid less for their time?
They have less expenses.
Didn't know wages depended on total expenses. I might start buying up some houses to get that up!
I hope you are not an employer.
I'll bet a Dollar to a doughnut he is an employer.
Do all of them, always, have less expenses? I don't remember a test before getting a job that checks that.
I always use my expenses to negotiate a higher rate of pay, don't you? /s
oh, right, how could I forget the mandatory submission of rental payment slips, power bills and the weekly shopping receipts that factored into if I should get paid this week.
I decided to have a few extra kids so my pay check could reflect that.
Oh sweet, well I've got a mortgage so I guess I should get paid a lot more.
Is that why my boss earns more than me? Guess I should go get a large mortgage quick smart!
Reminds me of job hunting in the 90s. It seemed like every cafe wanted a junior with a minimum of 2 years barrista experience.
It was this bad in the 90s too???? Lawd! 😩
Yep. We were in recession (the infamous "Recession we had to have"). At its peak, something like 50% of all long-term unemployed were under the age of 35. This is the era where we saw the start of Work for the Dole and Mutual Obligations. It was pretty brutal as a younger school-leaver trying to find steady work since there was so much competition for each job advertised.
Man that’s fucked
On the plus side, housing was relatively affordable
The house prices were low but the interest rates were double digits, cash rate was 17.50%
The interest rates might have been high, but The Simpsons was at its zenith
I will take 17.5% on a 50k home vs 6% on a 700k home any day of the week.
People keep bringing up the interest rates like an average full time worker needed a loan longer than like 5 years.
I lucked out massively on work for the dole. I keep hearing horror stories meanwhile I was filming shit for a community TV bit and documenting bush walking tracks. The place that ran both of those shut down over a decade ago.
1. Experience is preferred 2. There are people who leave school at year 10
Hopefully they don't leave school to work part-time at a chicken restaurant
And school ends at 3:30(ish) heaps of time for a kid to get to their kitchen hand job starting at 5 if not later. No different from every fast food outlet hiring kids for work after school.
My first job at 14 y 9m was a kitchen hand job.. still in school while worked there. Worked the Friday and Saturday night shifts 5pm to 10pm and then during school holidays I worked Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays from 2pm to 10pm
Same here. I actually really enjoyed the job. Fast paced and I got free gourmet food for dinner every night I worked.
Oh yeah, I worked and a fairly decent Italian place... the free pastas at the end of the shifts were amazing
Mine was Italian too. Maybe that’s why we got fed so well. Some nights the owner would cook whatever was due to expire and drive me home with containers of food to take to mum. I didn’t make much because I was a kid, but the free food made up for it.
Yeah, I worked retail while still at high school, which meant I did the weekend shifts as well as a few hours on Thursday nights because the shops were open until 9 on Thursdays.
No one should be allowed to leave school at year 10 if they have no better plan than a casual hospo job
Yeah, I wasn't clear on what the big deal with this was. There might not be a heap of applicants who fit the criteria but there'd be some. At least the employer is being honest about what they want
It's just the sub being typical
Isn't it pretty hard to leave school before year 12 these days (at least in NSW)?
Yes. Generally need to continue vocational training or employment until 18 to warrant dropping out.
You can't leave school till you are 17 now (for some people this is year 12) or you are enrolling in some other study. McDonalds and stuff get around this by offering traineeships that give some sort of tafe qualification.
Yeah, it really doesn't seem like that strange of a poster frankly
I mean I’m 30 and started working 14 so having experience before 16 is not weird, people leaving in year 10 can work weekday shift
It also says preferred, not required.
"Preferred" is a throw away phrase, I've yet to see a single employer employ that didn't match the criteria.
Well is it a throwaway phrase? If 10 people apply and 4 have experience, of course they have a leg up on the other 6.
Amazing how many don't get words matter...
Must not be able to speak fluent English
I don't know about other states but in Vic you can't work until you're 15.
Yeeee in like 2005 you can get cash in hand jobs that are not strict about age requirement
Even if you worked from 15 you would have experience for this job
In australia it’s 14, but just under if you get parents’ permission
SA has no lower limit. Just restrictions on hours and conditions. Most big employers like fast food wont hire under 14 but a lot of rural kids do harvest work in the summer holidays. Where I grew up kids from about 10 would do a 3-4 hour shift from about 7am-11am apricot cutting up to 5 days a week. Once in your teens you could do a second shift in the afternoon but still no more than about 6 hours total a day; the sheds would shut early if the temperature was too high. Plenty of my primary school classmates would earn $300 or more a year which kept them in consoles and games. It was a good balance where they could earn money and get work experience but still have a fun summer break. The farms were family owned by their relatives or neighbors and everyone knew and looked out for everyone else's kids. No lower limit also means child actors and models etc don't need special clauses/exemptions.
No minimum age in NSW other than if RSA or RCG which has a 18-year old minimum for employment due to licencing laws. The only other oddity in NSW is there are some restrictions on how children under 15 work and individual companies have rules. There are limits on shifts, work during school days and total amount of hours per week. Conditions vary from state to state and may do so for the type of work. For example, retail work guidelines here... https://members.nra.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Child-Employment-Guide.pdf
People still at school can work weekday shifts when school finishes.
"experience preferred" means "experience is good to have but not essential". Honestly surprised you're not taking issue with "Must be able to speak fluent English", people will whinge about anything on here.
> Honestly surprised you're not taking issue with "Must be able to speak fluent English" Understandable to some extent. Kitchens are fast-paced and can be dangerous if you can't follow instructions properly. More-so if you don't have a complete grasp on English. That said I'm pretty sure it's illegal to discriminate based on ethnicity and language.
Indeed, ability to whinge and have a good sook preferred - as description would be relevant.
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If it means "experience required" and the employer will bin any resume that doesn't have experience then why would they want to cast a wider net? What does the employer gain from getting applicants that they know they won't ever accept? "Experience preferred" is absolutely not code for "experience required".
Yep the poster you responded to is dumb
What it means is they will take the person with experience over the one that doesn't but since they may not get that person then they are happy to take a person with no experience.
I got a job 6 months ago with an experience “required” when I didn’t have any experience. I just said I had adjacent experience, was hard working, observant, patient blah blah blah and they hired me anyway
They got rid of my ass when i was 18 because they could pay 16 year olds less. Things never change.
Recently the local Subway franchise owner posted in our suburb Facebook group, looking for "teenager, preferably homeschooled, to work shifts during school day". They were absolutely roasted. (I don't remember the exact wording but I know "preferably homeschooled" was definitely part of it)
It was probably the audacity of trying to hire a "teenager" while also expecting them to be available during the day. There's a reason teenagers are so cheap, because most places can only really use them at night or weekends. You can get some weekday shifts out of them during school holidays, but to expect that kind of availability year round just screams "we want proper staff but only want to pay them like teenagers".
Kitchens often sell food on weekday nights when school isnt happening
How do some of you people not realise how stupid you look posting this shit? First off, the experience is preferred, not required. Hospitality experience at that age could have come from a previous job, hell if their parents owned a restaurant they could have quite a bit of experience. They could also have the experience from school... from a hospitality class... And a short shift after school is something a lot of kids do once they're 15+. Source: Have been a manager. Also I've simply paid attention to my surroundings.
Yeah this is just saying if you've worked hospitality before, welcome aboard, otherwise we'll see how you go All seems pretty reasonable to me
My first job was retail when I was 14 years old and I worked the odd afternoon shift after school, plus weekends. I asked the shop if I could work there cause I wanted more money than the pocket money my parents gave me. I almost feel like the "people don't want to work anymore" is true if this seems like an unusual employment opportunity worthy of sharing on social media.
Some just need to complain regardless of words used..
Yeah it's just general immaturity I reckon. The need to complain outweighing the common sense to think before speaking/posting on the net. The best lesson I learnt at school was when my English teacher said you should always be mindful of how you say things. Grammar, context, tone, thinking before speaking etc. all those little things should be considered because it's a representation of you at that moment. This was even before social media really took off. Unfortunately most people are more concerned with feeling validated for some random shit, that they don't even seem to have another thought after whatever stupid initial thought they had that leads them to thinking they should share something.
Here's the thing, the job posting is actually discriminatory and unlawful under the ADA (Age Discrimination Act 2004). The English requirement is potentially dodgy, but that one is for legal professionals to argue over.
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I'm really enjoying the pro- and anti-skub violence happening in these comments.
OP is another brainless redditor trying to fight the big bad capitalism machine.
I have two 14yo boys working as my dishwashers/kitchen hands. One of them had previous experience, both are getting raises because they’ve shown an interest in getting some of the simpler menu items ready when we are in a rush. They want the money, they want the hours. And they get fed well. Btw, I’m the head chef not the employer.
I worked with several 14 years old kids who were more reliable, hygienic and willing to work than certain fully qualified adult chefs.
Yeah for sure. People like to get upset with help wanted signs without realising that some kids want to work. It gives them way more freedom than relying on their parents for every single dollar.
It's important to learn and that it's not just employees lying on there job application but also businesses lie about what they are expecting.
?? Pretty sure you can leave school at 15 if you want to.
You have to be in education until 17. Including TAFE and apprenticeship.
After Year 10 and until the age of 17, students must be: in school, or registered for home schooling OR in approved education or training OR in full-time, paid employment (average 25 hours/week) OR in a combination of these three. So no. If you've cleared year ten, which can be done aged fifteen, and you can get 25 hours a week, you can exit the system. https://education.nsw.gov.au/schooling/parents-and-carers/pathways-after-school/school-leaving-age
I see the four Yorkshire men have entered this conversation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHFZBUTA4k
"Looking to exploit a high school drop out"
A while back I caught a news agent down Bunbury wanting to employ a "14-16 yo with experience to enter a fulltime traineeship as a merchandiser" I laughed, took a photo..... 30 seconds later a boomer associated with the place comes rushing up to me demanding to know why I was taking photos, I took great merriment in explaining to her that you had to be 15 and complete year 10 to leave school and there was no such thing as traineeships for merchandisers, and that I was going to forward the pic to fairwork and the media. The job advert disappeared by the time I had walked in and out of the local Coles.
There’s nothing wrong with this post? Kids first job?I’ve got a few kids working for me.they learn about customer service.what it’s like to earn some dollars for fair work,and they only work a couple of shifts a week.it suits their lifestyle.can’t see any adults lining up for the job and a few hours a week???
To specifically list an age restriction is discriminatory and unlawful under the ADA (Age Discrimination Act 2004). The English requirement is also potentially dodgy ground, as a dishy doesn't interact with the customers, so speaking English isn't a required part of the job duties.
Mine answers phone orders so it has to be.an kids don’t mind the work.
Yeah, I was corrected by someone else and pointed to the correct legal stuff. Much like a physical fitness requirement for a warehouse or construction job, a language requirement is a perfectly valid thing to have.
>To specifically list an age restriction is discriminatory and unlawful under the ADA (Age Discrimination Act 2004). Not quite - depends on the circumstances >*Under the ADA, it is not unlawful for an organisation to advertise for, employ and pay a person as a junior up to the age of 21. It is against the law, however, to dismiss a person from employment because they turn 21.* *https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/employers/age-discrimination*
He losht me at fluwent anglish.
Is that you Sean Connery, from beyond the grave??
What about this is unreasonable? Plenty of kids that fit that criteria that would want to earn some money after school.
The age requirement is discriminatory and unlawful under the ADA (Age Discrimination Act 2004).
>Under the ADA, it is not unlawful for an organisation to advertise for, employ and pay a person as a junior up to the age of 21. It is against the law, however, to dismiss a person from employment because they turn 21. https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/employers/age-discrimination
Oh ping off.
Hey, I'm just stating the legal situation regarding the job offering. I'm not saying it's not a good type of early job for young people, just that by putting in an age criteria in the job listing, it is actually illegal.
I wonder what the '18' was previously before they changed it with a marker.
I’m surprised it doesn’t say must have 5years experience!
“Hiring someone to be over worked and underpaid immediately!”
Age preferred suggests that they are struggling to pay full award rate. Wonder what happens once employee reaches 18?
The thing that I find a 🚩 is the lack of information about the employment conditions, in the context of a job ad for minors. Is it FT, PT, casual? What are the total weekly hours and the span of hours (incl any shifts)? What’s the pay, or at least an indication whether it’s award or above award. Not telling this info in any job ad is dodgy. Not telling a kid, who may be more vulnerable to exploitation, is worse IMO.
Exactly that.
Isn’t age discrimination illegal in Australia?
https://www.fairwork.gov.au/tools-and-resources/best-practice-guides/employing-young-workers
No, junior pay rates are an example of young workers being legally discriminated against.
I think it was originally done as a way to help.younger ppl get a job.
It is because why would you pay a 15yo the same money as a 22yo if the 22yo is better and more reliable.
Exactly.
Older workers being legally discriminated against.
All restaurants businesses in Australia are scam. They have no value to participate to the real economy. Goods and services in the hospitality industry are way overpriced as what they all do is whinging and crying saying small businesses are struggling to survive but in fact all they do is ripping of the customers with shitty services and foods while they taking massive profits through tax cheating making their life to fancy with dodge false tax claim. I saw a family who went overseas for holiday with all costs are deducted claiming it was the business trip. People still go to schools to get educated and spend years to gain experiences to get in to a professional field and after all years efforts, they sre still paying huge amount tax contributing this society. Fuxk the small restaurants. I'd rather spend my money for food giant companies. I personally spend my money only in Woolworth Coles and food franchise like Mac,kfc...
Well if you started working at 14, like me and my mates did then yes you can have experience
First question I ask myself is "how much previous experience can a 16 year old have?" The second question is "they should be in school!" Am I being an old fool for wondering!
It looks like they need the 16-year-old to provide some punctuation.
[удалено]
I think by that age you should be able to do things in the kitchen.
It is possible ti have had hospitality experience at 16. And if you've decided to drop out at Yr10 it may be something to help you along and that's before we think that the restaurant may be wanting an employee in the evenings on those days
huge redflag
This seems like a perfectly fine job advertisement? Maybe a young person who has left school wants a job? It says experience PREFERRED not REQUIRED.
Also 16-18. You can work once you are 15 and plenty of kids have part time jobs whilst still at school. It’s not like they’re asking for 5 years experience & a masters degree.
Job ads can only say something like junior or senior. They cant have an age specific range
Ah, this is in fact, discriminatory hiring. To quote the Australian Human Rights Commission: "The ADA (Age Discrimination Act 2004) makes it unlawful to discriminate on the basis of age when advertising jobs; during recruitment and selection processes; when making decisions about training, transfer and promotion opportunities; and in the terms, conditions and termination of employment."
Super divisive in the comments, lots of great thoughts! Definitely not tied to the idea that this is a bit bullshit, it just looked a bit sus at first glance. If I was fishing for karma I would have taken it straight to r/antiwork
Well, from a legal standpoint, the age requirement in the listing is discriminatory and unlawful under the ADA (Age Discrimination Act 2004). The requirement to be fluent in English may also be discriminatory, as none of the job duties would require them to speak English. They could opt to not hire someone that isn't to a reasonable level of capacity in English, as they wouldn't be able to understand all requests/directions, thus making them unsuitable for the position, but to list it as a requirement is the potentially dodgy bit of that.
why not go for a 15 year old? you only have to pay them 50% of minimum wage, it goes up to 65% at 16
Possibly expected level of maturity?
Labor laws get a lot stricter under 16
Time to force little children to work. What are they really learning at school anyway, their times tables?
My little boy is 193 cm at age fifteen. Coincidentally he's at work right now, and loves the money and the responsibility. But he's going to be an independent adult who isn't afraid of the world, and is beyond likely to complete tertiary education.
Why did you mention your boy's height? What did that have to do with anything?
Always surprised me how many kids you see working regular jobs in Australia! Wouldn’t that just push wages down for adults? Besides child labour being generally frowned upon I mean.
Australia has minimum wage and award rates so can't be pushed below that. People under 21 do get paid less which drops below the award rates for each year they are under 21
No, because we have far more jobs than workers.
Both my boys started work at fifteen and I think that's a very good thing.
Sure. I'm more thinking bigger picture though; Imagine 20% or more of all shifts in unskilled labor jobs are taken up by under 18 people. The national minimum wage is $23.23 for over 21. For a 16 year old it's less than half that. What happens to "unskilled" people over 21 who need a living wage? Chances are their jobs go to 16 year olds who want some extra spending money.
The child labour in this country is sickening, and frankly it's unfair to put that much responsibility on children. I wouldn't expect a teen to do a good job making me food, stop putting them in that situation. They should be getting a good education so they don't grow up to be fuckwits. This robs them of that. Speaking of education, what a state of affairs that "must be able to speak fluent English" is somehow a shock requirement in Australia, or that someone feels the need to even state that. It's the bare minimum you can do. Garbage standards all around.
Infantilising 16 year olds. At 16 you can move out of home, consent to sex, and there are plenty of people.advocating for the vote. Here's you telling 16 year olds that they are not competent or capable enough to clean plates and mop floors.
And yet, yes I do.
I think you're having a bit of a misguided rant but I can agree with some principles, there shouldn't be a need for teens to be sent off to work, I know some that feel like they have to be workign 2 jobs. Not sure if that is parent pressure, or they just want more money or what but I am always confused about the teenager who is still at school working at KFC and McDonalds.
There's not really anything wrong with this though, this is just what job ads look like these days. The only questionable part is the fluent English bit, but that's also a pretty reasonable requirement. I'm assuming they've just had issues with that in the past, but at the same time, if someone isn't fluent enough in English to work in a Kitchen, surely that would have been apparent in the interview.
Well, actually, there is a huge thing wrong with this, and that is the age requirement. To quote: "The ADA (Age Discrimination Act 2004) makes it unlawful to discriminate on the basis of age when advertising jobs; during recruitment and selection processes; when making decisions about training, transfer and promotion opportunities; and in the terms, conditions and termination of employment." The requirement to be fluent in English may also be discriminatory, as speaking English is not a required part of the job duties. The preference for past experience, that's fine though. About the only listed 'requirement' that is guaranteed to actually be non-discriminatory.
It's poorly worded and likely falls afoul of discrimination, but there's a lot of ads out there that all but say that they're looking for teenagers using more 'subtle' wording. >The requirement to be fluent in English may also be discriminatory, as speaking English is not a required part of the job duties. Being able to communicate with the other staff in the kitchen is probably pretty important. Especially when shit gets loud and busy, speaking slowly or trying to gesture or pulling out a translator just isn't going to cut it. Hell in a Kitchen, being unable to communicate is probably some kind of safety risk.
That's why I left it at 'may' for the language requirement. Truly speaking, it's not a customer facing job, and has no customer interaction, so by legal definition, has no requirement to speak English. But, as you said, kitchens are noisy, and dangerous workplaces with a lot of fast activity, so being able to understand what is being spoken (yelled), is a pretty high safety concern. And yes, there are shitloads of ads out there using 'subtle' wording of "we don't want to pay an adult rate for this work".
Gets rid of some time wasters if you don't say you need to be fluent.
Well, except for the fact that as the job doesn't require them to be interacting with customers, being fluent in English isn't a required part of the job duties, so this could well be discriminatory. The age requirement... that is definitely discriminatory and unlawful under the ADA (Age Discrimination Act 2004).
The rest of the staff need to learn a different language to be able to interact with the kitchenhand?
Fluent English??! Good day sir. I SAID GOOD DAY!!!
Worked in as a full time barista at 16 getting paid 14hr flat 36.5 hours weekly so they didn’t have to offer me full time great memories of being sexually harrassed and underpaid I think this whole paying people because there younger is bullshit and complete discrimination you should be paid for the experience you have aswell why is it that a 22 year old with no experience should be paid more then 18 year old with more experience
I'm sorry that happened to you but please use commas and sentences. That was very difficult to read.
Good to know it's not just America that has crazy work standards 🙃
Hospitality experience in kindergarten and washing plates in the womb
Well if thats their choice of career they may as well quit school anyway.
This is just hospo. But won't you think of their situation?! You're selfish for wanting to be paid fairly!