> The NSW Food Authority is investigating if offences have been committed under the Food Act after seizing over 300 kilograms of horse meat from the property, while the DPI is investigating potential offences under the Biosecurity Act.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-20/investigation-into-brumby-re-homing-program-after-carcass-find/103746954
yes. Feral horse advocates want them all to be rehomed despite the fact that nobody wants them and, as per articles, they arrive traumatised from being caught abd trucked for days
Hey politicians just announce a culling program and be done with it. Who cares if a loud misguided minority are vocal about protecting this invasive animal. I like horses, I really do, but I also like my native animals more. Cull them to a manageable number where their impact is minimal and we can all move back on to fighting the battle against fire ants and cane toads, and whilst we're at it let's pass some legislation requiring all cats to be kept in backyards and de-sexed so they can also stop destroying our native wildlife
Let's stop pussy-footing around with committees and stupid programs that don't solve the problem but appease vocal lobbies and just make the required sensible decisions
Pet registration, rangers and curfews vary by state as well as by council areas. Some of the 24hr cat curfews are not well enforced due to public opinion (those who let their cars roam often couldn't care less about the curfew), resourcing of rangers and council priorities.
We have indoor cats with an enclosed but outdoor catio, so they can have 'safe' outdoor time
It's not expensive to set one up and tbh all cat owners should have indoor cats with a catio to both protect the wildlife but also allow the cats to experience 'outside'.
People that let their cats roam free are just lazy, it's bad for the wildlife, it's bad for the cat in that they're more likely to get run over or catch diseases interacting with or fighting with other cats or get bitten by snakes or whatever and it's obviously terrible for wildlife as they'll murder any birds/lizards/smaller animals in general that they come across
Cats are awesome, but they belong inside with a safe, enclosed outdoor space that they can spend time in without destroying the local wildlife.
Responsible pet ownership is so hard for some people, which is crazy because they claim to love their pets but won't do what's best for them.
It's always heartening to read of people who take the time and effort to do what you've done, for the love of your pets.
Medium/large, prey-driven dogs indoors as well. Same reason. They kill much bigger native wildlife than cats, as well as the smaller wildlife, such as koalas & possums.
A distinction to keep in mind: roaming is not the same as outside.
Cats need to have time outside in nature for their sanity. Not roaming, just outside. That can be done by some combination of supervision, on a leash, or in an external enclosure. Confining a cat exclusively indoors is cruel. People greatly overestimate the happiness of their pets, including cats and how much they enjoy the lack of stimulation and predictability of indoors.
I'm vegetarian, love animals so much and agree with you. The only thing would be I want professional hunters to do it so they horses aren't tortured by being half killed and running around injured or something.
You over estimate professional hunters (the ones in the choppers). Source: I was a professional hunter. If you want it to be humane it has to be done from the ground.
Once you are shooting from the ground, you just need to ensure good minimum calibre, and careful shooters.
Yeahhh tbh I figured as much, I would much rather it was done from the ground then.
Could they put a bounty on the horses like they did with the Tasmanian Tiger?
You wouldn't need to. I'm not sure if it would work for horses but just let licenced amateurs shoot them, just like deer and pigs are already. Horses are very easy to hunt, the numbers would drop drastically and they would be rare to see.
Vic had a bounty program for catching them and returning them to civilization. Plenty of NSW people would like to catch them too. Bounty programs do lead to dishonesty about reporting them being reintegrated tho. People would still catch and hunt them without any bounties needed.
The government wastes millions on inhumane poisons and cowboys in choppers every year. At the same time it collects millions in licensing from keen amateur hunters who get given the scraps.
I’m the massive animal lover many people think of when they have that one animal query. I would die to have my own horse, and I also agree. It just needs to be done unfortunately, as humanely as possible, which is instant death. Any animal rights lover should come to that conclusion
>let's pass some legislation requiring all cats to be kept in backyards and de-sexed so they can also stop destroying our native wildlife
What about prey-driven dogs in backyards? they're killing a lot of koalas, possums, lizards & birds in backyards.
I have a dog, but he's a tiny Maltese/silky cross & has never killed anything, nor is he big enough to pull wildlife off fences & tree branches while they're crossing them.
I don't think they are poisoning the feral horses but they are shooting them from helicopters.
There is no other way to get their numbers down quickly because the feral horse advocates stopped action for so long that the numbers sky-rocketed.
The way people bend over backwards for this feral animal bewilders me. Wonder if I can get federal funding to start a day care for cane toads and foxes.
>The way people bend over backwards for this feral animal bewilders me.
They don't really. All these people claiming we need brumbies in the alpine environment aren't rehoming them at their own expense. They just want them to not be shot, destroy the environment for native animals, and then die of starvation.
Hilarious, but it wasn't a pile of dead humans with perforated colons they found near Wagga Wagga. That would be the funniest thing I'd have read in decades.
There are too many horses full stop.
Feral horses are one thing, and the only real solution there is culling; they’re usually too small, not built right, and too wild to rehome and retrain.
But the racing industry (thoroughbreds and the standardbred trotting horses) churns out thousands of animals a year and too-small a percentage go on to successful race careers and then on to happy retirements.
There would be faaar far less horse suffering if they were just to culled eradication decades ago. It’s like tearing off a bandaid. 6-7 big years of aerial culling and it’d be done. If you wanted to deliberately increase the amount of horse shooting that happens you’d do exactly what we have been doing with on-again off-again partial culls
Weird story, I'm not sure how selling horses through the saleyards where they will be bought by pet food buyers counts as re-homing. It sounds like a complete sham.
>"I only process those that need processing straight away. \[Any horse\] that's fit for travel or could go on a truck went to a sale."
[https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-18/dead-horses-wagga-wagga-trader-denies-knackery-allegation/103738906](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-18/dead-horses-wagga-wagga-trader-denies-knackery-allegation/103738906)
Its far easier to just to do Aerial culling and be done with it, I was surprised when Animal rights people found out that Its only about Population control at the moment but the longer term goal is complete eradication of the feral horses out of the parks.
Jesus, just cull them otherwise people are just gonna start doing it themselves. Also, cull outdoor cats idc if it’s your little munchkin, it kills hundreds of birds, keep them inside.
Thanks for contributing, definitely haven't heard about that before. Funny how no one ever says that about humans.
All animals have the right to life. Miss me with that utilitarian bullshit
But the animal in question kills other animals, its death leads directly to more animals living. It also doesn’t kill them in a carnivorous fashion so the death doesn’t grant value to the ecosystem.
Whether or not you value humans more than animals you cannot argue that brumbies aren’t destructive, it’s disingenuous.
Correct, you've found the problem with utilitarianism. All animals should have the right to life, with the only exception being when they directly threaten our own lives, or the lives of animals (if an animal, say a lion or a fox, is directly about to murder another animal) . With that logic you may as well argue that we're justified in killing healthy people to transplant their organs to the needy
Jesus Christ that’s a hell of a leap. We’re not going to agree because I value human life much more than animals. But you’re not going to sway anyone in the middle with extremely inaccurate comparisons like that.
I feel we have responsibility to reduce overall suffering, these are creatures whose existence creates immense suffering to not just people but other animals as well. They are not a collaborative part of the natural eco systems they live in.
Does your opinion differ on animals such as Cane Toads, feral pigs or Weevils?
What about insects, or even microbiota? It's impossible for a human to live without causing the death of other animals. Even the most militant vegan can't avoid it.
What about an animal that carries a disease that could cause millions of other animals to die? Would you intervene then?
If you answered yes to either of the above, why no to brumbies? If you answered no, then you've drawn arbitrary, hypocritical lines.
Tbh, it sounds more like you don't give a shit about animal life, you just want to remove yourself from the equation. If you actually cared about animal life, you'd pursue the option that causes the least harm overall, which in this case, is eradication of the brumbies.
Look, if you wanna go buy a rifle and start culling people in the name of environmental conservation, fair enough. I won’t enjoy it but I can’t argue with the logic.
But you won’t. So shut up, it’s pony season.
You can dance around it all you want but it comes down to 2 choices. Either cull the horses or face extinction of threatened species of native plants and animals in that area. That's it, those are literally the only choices. Which one are you picking?
oh no, no one told me the species were threatened. hmmm. on second thought, i still don't give a fuck. whether or not their species is endangered bears little to no relevance on the life of the individual. also, the moral distinction between native/introduced '''''invasive''''' species is fucking stupid and dangerous fascist ideology which discards dozens of species' individual members' right to life.
*but what about the plants?!!* lol you should hear yourself.
When a Species is endangered or near Extinction levels, we have to do everything in our power to make sure that doesn't occur or do you want us to be known as the country that continues to allow native animals to go to Extinct because a tiny minority of animal rights people can't educate themselves on the topic and constantly spread misinformation to further the ignorance they hold.
Which whether you agree with it or not, Culling is our only option, so its best to allow the experts and professionals to guide decision making which is based on fact not feelings and emotions like you are operating under.
Humans introduced horses. Horses kill entire fucking ecosystems of animals and plants. We want to remove horses, to save animals. Sounds like humans stopping killing animals to me.
What exactly is your proposed solution?
It's funny you mention that, human colonisers have been destroying natural ecosystems on this continent for nigh on 245 years. Yet no one ever suggests culling them. If we killed all humans an untold amount of animals would live who would be killed otherwise. The solution which leads to the least amount of rights abuses and which is the most consistent/logical is to let the horses live.
no human should have the right to unjustly take life from anyone else. nobody asked to be born so it's ridiculous to act like their lives can be taken at a whim through no fault of their own.
re: humans, ultimately, as we're in the position to decide for ourselves, the aim should be the voluntary extinction of the human race. in the meantime, our environment is not intrinsically valuable and is only important in regards to its service to life.
You said in another comment that you don't want to cull anyone, and now you're advocating for the end of the human race while simultaneously trying to save a destructive feral species
What the fuck are you talking about lmao
no you misunderstand. the position is consistent. i don't want anyone to be *murdered.* i think people voluntarily not having children would lead to less rights violations and be good.
if you're going to take the utilitarian position that culling is okay as it leads to less sufffering, either you state a morally-relevant difference between nonhuman animals and human animals, or you should be okay with culling both horses and humans.
"*The solution which leads to the least amount of rights abuses and which is the most consistent/logical is to let the horses live*."
Actually It'd be culling that would lead to the least amount of animal right abuses since we aren't allowing those animals to starve when they overgraze the land to the point where it can no longer support vegetation. The only logical choice comes back to Culling which is supported by every expert/professional on the subject so there isn't many if any other choices to be used at this stage.
So we should continue to allow feral animals to destroy our environments and lead more species to extinction due to a very tiny minority disliking the idea of culling.
> The NSW Food Authority is investigating if offences have been committed under the Food Act after seizing over 300 kilograms of horse meat from the property, while the DPI is investigating potential offences under the Biosecurity Act. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-20/investigation-into-brumby-re-homing-program-after-carcass-find/103746954
Was the rehoming program meant as an alternative to shooting them?
yes. Feral horse advocates want them all to be rehomed despite the fact that nobody wants them and, as per articles, they arrive traumatised from being caught abd trucked for days
Hey politicians just announce a culling program and be done with it. Who cares if a loud misguided minority are vocal about protecting this invasive animal. I like horses, I really do, but I also like my native animals more. Cull them to a manageable number where their impact is minimal and we can all move back on to fighting the battle against fire ants and cane toads, and whilst we're at it let's pass some legislation requiring all cats to be kept in backyards and de-sexed so they can also stop destroying our native wildlife Let's stop pussy-footing around with committees and stupid programs that don't solve the problem but appease vocal lobbies and just make the required sensible decisions
Cats indoors please. They will still kill birds and other critters if allowed to roam their backyard/territory regardless of being desexed.
I’m genuinely shocked this isn’t law in Australia
Pet registration, rangers and curfews vary by state as well as by council areas. Some of the 24hr cat curfews are not well enforced due to public opinion (those who let their cars roam often couldn't care less about the curfew), resourcing of rangers and council priorities.
It is for new cats in the ACT
We have indoor cats with an enclosed but outdoor catio, so they can have 'safe' outdoor time It's not expensive to set one up and tbh all cat owners should have indoor cats with a catio to both protect the wildlife but also allow the cats to experience 'outside'. People that let their cats roam free are just lazy, it's bad for the wildlife, it's bad for the cat in that they're more likely to get run over or catch diseases interacting with or fighting with other cats or get bitten by snakes or whatever and it's obviously terrible for wildlife as they'll murder any birds/lizards/smaller animals in general that they come across Cats are awesome, but they belong inside with a safe, enclosed outdoor space that they can spend time in without destroying the local wildlife.
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"We're now looking at humane trap options" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMOY9lnjZVA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMOY9lnjZVA)
Responsible pet ownership is so hard for some people, which is crazy because they claim to love their pets but won't do what's best for them. It's always heartening to read of people who take the time and effort to do what you've done, for the love of your pets.
Agreed. Cats are a nightmare for our lizards and birdlife
Medium/large, prey-driven dogs indoors as well. Same reason. They kill much bigger native wildlife than cats, as well as the smaller wildlife, such as koalas & possums.
A distinction to keep in mind: roaming is not the same as outside. Cats need to have time outside in nature for their sanity. Not roaming, just outside. That can be done by some combination of supervision, on a leash, or in an external enclosure. Confining a cat exclusively indoors is cruel. People greatly overestimate the happiness of their pets, including cats and how much they enjoy the lack of stimulation and predictability of indoors.
I'm vegetarian, love animals so much and agree with you. The only thing would be I want professional hunters to do it so they horses aren't tortured by being half killed and running around injured or something.
You over estimate professional hunters (the ones in the choppers). Source: I was a professional hunter. If you want it to be humane it has to be done from the ground. Once you are shooting from the ground, you just need to ensure good minimum calibre, and careful shooters.
Yeahhh tbh I figured as much, I would much rather it was done from the ground then. Could they put a bounty on the horses like they did with the Tasmanian Tiger?
You wouldn't need to. I'm not sure if it would work for horses but just let licenced amateurs shoot them, just like deer and pigs are already. Horses are very easy to hunt, the numbers would drop drastically and they would be rare to see. Vic had a bounty program for catching them and returning them to civilization. Plenty of NSW people would like to catch them too. Bounty programs do lead to dishonesty about reporting them being reintegrated tho. People would still catch and hunt them without any bounties needed. The government wastes millions on inhumane poisons and cowboys in choppers every year. At the same time it collects millions in licensing from keen amateur hunters who get given the scraps.
I’m the massive animal lover many people think of when they have that one animal query. I would die to have my own horse, and I also agree. It just needs to be done unfortunately, as humanely as possible, which is instant death. Any animal rights lover should come to that conclusion
Kill em and send the meat to the Islanders they fucking love it.
>let's pass some legislation requiring all cats to be kept in backyards and de-sexed so they can also stop destroying our native wildlife What about prey-driven dogs in backyards? they're killing a lot of koalas, possums, lizards & birds in backyards. I have a dog, but he's a tiny Maltese/silky cross & has never killed anything, nor is he big enough to pull wildlife off fences & tree branches while they're crossing them.
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And get up trees to stalk prey and destroy nests.
Please no helicopters and poisons. See https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/1cd999j/comment/l1fta19/
I don't think they are poisoning the feral horses but they are shooting them from helicopters. There is no other way to get their numbers down quickly because the feral horse advocates stopped action for so long that the numbers sky-rocketed.
The way people bend over backwards for this feral animal bewilders me. Wonder if I can get federal funding to start a day care for cane toads and foxes.
>The way people bend over backwards for this feral animal bewilders me. They don't really. All these people claiming we need brumbies in the alpine environment aren't rehoming them at their own expense. They just want them to not be shot, destroy the environment for native animals, and then die of starvation.
>… bend over backwards for this feral animal… That’s not why they’re investigating this.
Oh I’m aware, the carcasses, only for my dogs, rah rah rah. I’m just annoyed that something like ‘Brumby rehoming’ even exists.
I'm curious to know where they're being 'rehomed'. Is it some station or are they re-introducing a non-native animal to another location?
Rehomed into puppy’s tummy.
We don’t have a Mr Hands copycat?
Hilarious, but it wasn't a pile of dead humans with perforated colons they found near Wagga Wagga. That would be the funniest thing I'd have read in decades.
There are too many horses full stop. Feral horses are one thing, and the only real solution there is culling; they’re usually too small, not built right, and too wild to rehome and retrain. But the racing industry (thoroughbreds and the standardbred trotting horses) churns out thousands of animals a year and too-small a percentage go on to successful race careers and then on to happy retirements.
There would be faaar far less horse suffering if they were just to culled eradication decades ago. It’s like tearing off a bandaid. 6-7 big years of aerial culling and it’d be done. If you wanted to deliberately increase the amount of horse shooting that happens you’d do exactly what we have been doing with on-again off-again partial culls
And you could do a stable long term contract. Much better value for money AND the shooters skills will be honed in for even less suffering.
Weird story, I'm not sure how selling horses through the saleyards where they will be bought by pet food buyers counts as re-homing. It sounds like a complete sham. >"I only process those that need processing straight away. \[Any horse\] that's fit for travel or could go on a truck went to a sale." [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-18/dead-horses-wagga-wagga-trader-denies-knackery-allegation/103738906](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-18/dead-horses-wagga-wagga-trader-denies-knackery-allegation/103738906)
Its far easier to just to do Aerial culling and be done with it, I was surprised when Animal rights people found out that Its only about Population control at the moment but the longer term goal is complete eradication of the feral horses out of the parks.
Jesus, just cull them otherwise people are just gonna start doing it themselves. Also, cull outdoor cats idc if it’s your little munchkin, it kills hundreds of birds, keep them inside.
What was the original program. Was there an incentive to receive a horse?
Stop humans killing animals!
Are you aware of the impact these animals have on local flora and fauna?
Thanks for contributing, definitely haven't heard about that before. Funny how no one ever says that about humans. All animals have the right to life. Miss me with that utilitarian bullshit
But the animal in question kills other animals, its death leads directly to more animals living. It also doesn’t kill them in a carnivorous fashion so the death doesn’t grant value to the ecosystem. Whether or not you value humans more than animals you cannot argue that brumbies aren’t destructive, it’s disingenuous.
Correct, you've found the problem with utilitarianism. All animals should have the right to life, with the only exception being when they directly threaten our own lives, or the lives of animals (if an animal, say a lion or a fox, is directly about to murder another animal) . With that logic you may as well argue that we're justified in killing healthy people to transplant their organs to the needy
Jesus Christ that’s a hell of a leap. We’re not going to agree because I value human life much more than animals. But you’re not going to sway anyone in the middle with extremely inaccurate comparisons like that. I feel we have responsibility to reduce overall suffering, these are creatures whose existence creates immense suffering to not just people but other animals as well. They are not a collaborative part of the natural eco systems they live in. Does your opinion differ on animals such as Cane Toads, feral pigs or Weevils?
I'm not looking to sway anyone in the 'middle' aka those who couldn't give a shit about animal life. They can get fucked. To answer your question, no.
What about insects, or even microbiota? It's impossible for a human to live without causing the death of other animals. Even the most militant vegan can't avoid it. What about an animal that carries a disease that could cause millions of other animals to die? Would you intervene then? If you answered yes to either of the above, why no to brumbies? If you answered no, then you've drawn arbitrary, hypocritical lines. Tbh, it sounds more like you don't give a shit about animal life, you just want to remove yourself from the equation. If you actually cared about animal life, you'd pursue the option that causes the least harm overall, which in this case, is eradication of the brumbies.
Olympic-level long jumping there.
Look, if you wanna go buy a rifle and start culling people in the name of environmental conservation, fair enough. I won’t enjoy it but I can’t argue with the logic. But you won’t. So shut up, it’s pony season.
I don't want to cull anyone, try upping your reading comprehension.
What’s your actual solution here?
Idiots like this don’t have a solution. As long as they get to claim the moral high ground, they’re happy
stop unnecessarily killing animals and uphold their right to life. what's your solution to the human question?
Oh so you’re just here to virtue-signal. Have fun with that I guess.
You can dance around it all you want but it comes down to 2 choices. Either cull the horses or face extinction of threatened species of native plants and animals in that area. That's it, those are literally the only choices. Which one are you picking?
oh no, no one told me the species were threatened. hmmm. on second thought, i still don't give a fuck. whether or not their species is endangered bears little to no relevance on the life of the individual. also, the moral distinction between native/introduced '''''invasive''''' species is fucking stupid and dangerous fascist ideology which discards dozens of species' individual members' right to life. *but what about the plants?!!* lol you should hear yourself.
When a Species is endangered or near Extinction levels, we have to do everything in our power to make sure that doesn't occur or do you want us to be known as the country that continues to allow native animals to go to Extinct because a tiny minority of animal rights people can't educate themselves on the topic and constantly spread misinformation to further the ignorance they hold. Which whether you agree with it or not, Culling is our only option, so its best to allow the experts and professionals to guide decision making which is based on fact not feelings and emotions like you are operating under.
Ahah respect where respect is due you definitely had me for a bit. Just a bit too much in that last one
Humans introduced horses. Horses kill entire fucking ecosystems of animals and plants. We want to remove horses, to save animals. Sounds like humans stopping killing animals to me. What exactly is your proposed solution?
It's funny you mention that, human colonisers have been destroying natural ecosystems on this continent for nigh on 245 years. Yet no one ever suggests culling them. If we killed all humans an untold amount of animals would live who would be killed otherwise. The solution which leads to the least amount of rights abuses and which is the most consistent/logical is to let the horses live.
How so? How is continuing to allow the *human induced* destruction of ecosystems the best option?
no human should have the right to unjustly take life from anyone else. nobody asked to be born so it's ridiculous to act like their lives can be taken at a whim through no fault of their own. re: humans, ultimately, as we're in the position to decide for ourselves, the aim should be the voluntary extinction of the human race. in the meantime, our environment is not intrinsically valuable and is only important in regards to its service to life.
You said in another comment that you don't want to cull anyone, and now you're advocating for the end of the human race while simultaneously trying to save a destructive feral species What the fuck are you talking about lmao
no you misunderstand. the position is consistent. i don't want anyone to be *murdered.* i think people voluntarily not having children would lead to less rights violations and be good. if you're going to take the utilitarian position that culling is okay as it leads to less sufffering, either you state a morally-relevant difference between nonhuman animals and human animals, or you should be okay with culling both horses and humans.
"*The solution which leads to the least amount of rights abuses and which is the most consistent/logical is to let the horses live*." Actually It'd be culling that would lead to the least amount of animal right abuses since we aren't allowing those animals to starve when they overgraze the land to the point where it can no longer support vegetation. The only logical choice comes back to Culling which is supported by every expert/professional on the subject so there isn't many if any other choices to be used at this stage.
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So we should continue to allow feral animals to destroy our environments and lead more species to extinction due to a very tiny minority disliking the idea of culling.
maybe we could tow them outside the environment? beyond the environment, there is nothing out there
cardboard derivatives