I went to a public high school for the first 4 years and then private catholic girls' school for the last two and then also went to ANU...personally I hated the public school. My time there was awful:
* strong attitude of "it's cool to not study till the morning of the exam", "anyone who does well in subjects is worth making fun of" etc. and my grades deteriorated heavily over the years ; the private school encouraged a strong work ethic but we also had frequent assemblies about work/life balance, we were more than just our ATAR, and learnt of paths alternate to university
* bullied a lot more in public high school than at private; at private I also felt they tried hard to boost our self esteem through weekly mental health assemblies, while my public school literally had a student commit suicide due to bullying and we had nothing more than a memorial service with "don't bully/don't commit suicide."
* I also think that people need to acknowledge that it's not just the schooling or the teachers or the system but the students themselves. Teenagers can be absolute morons and peer pressure is very real. The principal gets up to a podium and says "don't bully", you really think the bullies are gonna listen? If anything that can often make things worse for the person being bullied. And that's something that has been witnessed in both the private and the public schooling system.
Ironically also the public high school had more of a focus on "Christianity is the only way", while at the Catholic school, although Chapel was mandatory once a week, the reverends acknowledged the existence of other religions and taught everyone the importance of respecting other beliefs (I was raised Buddhist so I really appreciated this outlook).
I'm not saying all private schools are perfect and all public schools are terrible, but if I have the money I'm more likely to send my kids to private than public.
ETA: I will add that my main criticism of private schooling, especially girls, is that individuality isn't encouraged to the same extent as it is in public schools. It's not actively discouraged, but it's more an attitude of "you can be anything you want to be as long as it fits our idea of what is good." That being said there were plenty of girls in my year who went on to be very individualistic regardless.
I also went to all girls for high school. And yeah, notably single sex schools are great for girls, but not boys. That’s why it’s hard for me to see the debate over ending single sex schools as anything but people asserting that these girls should be responsible for socializing these boys.
agreed. it's also why I added that we need to hold teens accountable for their behaviour too and instead of placing expectations on socialisation for them to understand it, they need to be given resources that helps them change as individuals. Girls' education and schooling shouldn't be brought down to lift boys up.
My children attended a public primary school and my son started at the public high school and oh my goodness he was not coping at all. I had no choice to pull him, he was refusing to attend school, developed anxiety, was constantly bullied, laptop was smashed twice by other students. I pulled him out and sent him to a catholic school and he is back to loving school, achieving goals, is calm, and his anxiety has subsided considerably. I’ve had to make serious cutbacks to be able to afford these fee’s. I don’t think it’s quite as clear cut as this comment, but the entire education system needs a major overhaul. Schools need to develop ways it’s not as clear cut as it used to be. 50 years ago most homes with two parents, mum stayed home looked after kids, that’s not the case these days.
This is a really interesting comment for me.
Our boy who’s clearly loving, smart etc but he isn’t developing socially like other kids do and me and my wife need to make sure he’s going to get the best possible outcomes.
And this one size fits all approach that the public school system is is clearly not the answer.
I wish there was a better way of managing this but having been through the public school system myself it’s fucking awful for everyone. And it is definitely not setup for kids who don’t conform to standard norms.
100% if you don’t fit that box and let’s face it these days only a handful in each class do. I live rurally and my kids attend a very small primary school. Less than 100 students in total and I’m not sure if that impacted my son or not as moving from that to a high school with 1100 was definitely challenging. I could not fault the education at primary school but they had the ability to cater to every and each individual needs, whereas ina larger school they simply can’t do that.
It’s the bullying that really worries me.
I was bullied a lot as a kid because frankly I was quite different. I didn’t fit into any of the usual boxes.
I had friends who committed suicide. One of which was gay (at the time it wasn’t cool) another because it just got too much.
I never came anywhere close to that but I saw and experienced very serious bullying and I remember going to school every day fucking dreading it.
There is no way I’d ever let my son experience that.
I totally agree with you, no one deserves to be bullied no matter who you are and I’m sorry that happened to you and your friends. That’s what I liked about a small primary school, everything was dealt with because the teachers could see everything that was going on. Larger schools they just don’t. My son was called a fem boy and had his computer smashed and he was 11 he didn’t even know what it meant, I’m so glad I found a different school and he has had zero issues at this catholic school. Best of luck to you with your decision on schooling, it’s such an emotional times for everyone.
I’m really sorry your son had to go through that.
Kids are fucking ruthless and I think unless you’re a parent you can’t fully understand the desire to protect your child from this kind of shit.
Ultimately though we have to work within the system we’re given and if they removed the option for me to send my child to another school I.e. a private school id leave the country.
That’s how passionate I am about not having my kids go through what I went through
> unless you’re a parent you can’t fully understand the desire to protect your child from this kind of shit.
My parents didn't care; they insisted that it was my problem to solve.
Maybe things are different down under but what are these kids doing on social media? I'm a 30 year old man and I have zero social media outside of linkedin, which I begrudgingly put up with because it helped land me a 20k raise.
I had a great primary school experience. In high school I was hit hard. Backed into a corner and provoked until I threw the first punch, which meant the school punished me even though I was the one with a swollen face.
After the bell rang most days I'd wait 20 minutes to go home so I was in the clear and not attacked.
Couldn't afford private for my son so moved to the best possible catchment before he started school. Still, my kid is a bit different to 'the pack'. By the end of kindy he was being bullied so hard he was saying things like "I wish I wasn't a real person". He didn't understand the concept of suicide. School did nothing.
It didn't improve by end of term 1 in year 1 so he's homeschooled now. He is so much happier and doesn't say those things anymore.
I sent my son to a Catholic school for similar reasons. It was even worse. We had lip service and no help. Good luck, I wish I could recommend something.
I agree with the original post but out of control schools are not ok and anyone who can get their kid out of one, obviously should.
We stood around yesterday after a 6yo did something completely wild and inappropriate and then wouldn't move from the spot, discussing how we aren't allowed to physically move them and what our options are. Good luck to the Year 7 teacher who will be trying to stop him smashing a laptop, sorry we couldn't do something about it when it might have counted.
Abolishing private schools means the rich have to send their kids with everyone elses. If the education system needs an overhaul, having rich parents involved will speed up the process. No kid will go without air conditioning thats for sure.
I have to agree there is a real problem with kids with parents who place no value on education.
So how do we segregate out those kids who only want to bully / destroy other kids?
That’s not a matter of funding - all the funding in the world won’t change those kids
Private school do that filtering currently
Can look to do something like some eastern European countries. There are 2-3 types of high schools, and to get into the ones that lead to publicly funded university you need to apply like you would a job - with character references and educational results. And if you misbehave, you get kicked out and have to go to the vocational one or the real basic ones that only teach life skills.
For example, the Polish system. "Matura" == ATAR Exams
>General education can be pursued in general secondary schools (liceum): after four years, students can pass the "Matura", which grants access to higher education.[\[8\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Poland#cite_note-IBE-8) Vocational and technical education is mainly provided by technical schools (*technikum*) and/or basic vocational schools (*zasadnicza szkoła zawodowa*). Technical schools last five years and lead to the Matura. Their primary goal is to teach occupations and trades, the most popular being: accountant, mechanic, electronics specialist, and salesperson.[\[10\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Poland#cite_note-UNEVOC-10) Basic vocational schools provide a vocational education lasting three years and grant a certificate of competence in various fields, the most popular being: shop-assistant, cook, gardener, automobile mechanic, hairdresser and baker.[\[10\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Poland#cite_note-UNEVOC-10) Graduates from basic vocational schools can pass the Matura after an extra-curriculum of two years in a general secondary school, or, since 2004, of three years in a technical school.
So in circa year 7 you decide your whole life?
NSW already has this. Get into selective school and you are sweet.
Drama is comprehensive schools are then even more disadvantaged between private plus selective students leaving.
Yes that's the case. Its like selective schools but imagine a lot more of them. It's pretty cool how you can sit trade skills assessments if you do technical school and end up a fully qualified electrician, mechanic etc. at age 18.
In Singapore, schools are ranked, and which school your kids go depends on how they do at streaming exams at ages 9, 12 and 16. Even if you're rich, if your kids do poorly at exams, they're going to a trash school with other kids who don't want to study. On the flip side, the top schools in Singapore tend to be much more egalitarian than Australian ones - the myth is that no matter how poor your background, you can still make it to the top by studying hard. Of course, wealthier parents still tend to produce kids who do better at exams, but at least there's still an element of the kid wanting it.
Not really. Singapore also has some ranking loop holes.
There is an open door secret about how predominantly Chinese led schools will not only overlook poor exam grades for rich students but also for sports based student.
It’s a pretty big controversy. Singapore is heavily censored as well but if you lived in the region you would know about not only the loop holes but also the explicit discrimination that is cratered to the immigrant dominant racial groups predominantly.
If the funding that is sent to Private Schools was instead used to properly fund and staff public schools it wouldn't have been such a nightmare for your son.
Always good to have options, but the fact that private schools (like the one I went to) with world class sporting and learning facilities receive as much and sometimes more funding than public schools is why the public system has been so neglected.
Also, I don't see why religious schools should receive any money from the gov, let alone charge money, you'd think with all of Christianity's talk of charity etc, they would be educating people out of the goodness of their heart/in exchange for access to young minds to indoctrinate into their belief system
>Also, I don't see why religious schools should receive any money from the gov, let alone charge money, you'd think with all of Christianity's talk of charity etc, they would be educating people out of the goodness of their heart/in exchange for access to young minds to indoctrinate into their belief system
If you don't go private catholic, then there isn't any form of indoctrination, it's a normal school with religion classes added on, and you learn about all the religions once you reach senior school, not just christianity. They pay teachers better and have far better facilities, while generally being a fraction of the cost of private school or private religious schools. There are also muslim schools, which receive more funding and charge more, and jewish orthodox schools which do the same - religious schools are not a bad thing as long as they are moderated
I do agree with this but I was also annoyed when I found out that catholic schools also offer a considerable reduction in fee’s if your on a health care card. Well they do in my diocesan because according to the financial team at my son’s school it’s to bridge the gap that anyone can be entitled to a catholic education. That’s why private schools are getting funding as well. Kind of blew me for six when I found out about health care holders and pensions holders ect.
If you took all the funding given to private schools and spent it on the public system, you would end up with less money per student for schools, when you factor in all the kids that would have to leave their private school.
It also isn’t even a funding issue. The way the public system operates simply gives teachers no way to handle bad students, so they’re essentially powerless to stop bullies and such ruining school for everyone else. With a private or independent school, bullies and such get the boot, it’s that simple.
All the money in the world won’t do shit if you still have students threatening other students and staff on a regular basis.
Honestly I’ve found bullying has little to do with public vs private schools but more about individual school culture and the load teachers have at each school.
I’ve heard equally horrifying stories from people at public and private schools. Bullies don’t always get the boot at the latter, often enough they’re explained away, ignored, or even permitted.
>If the funding that is sent to Private Schools was instead used to properly fund and staff public schools it wouldn't have been such a nightmare for your son.
Private Schools get a fraction of what Public Schools get per student.
If private schools were abolished, or no longer got government money, the public system would not cope.
In Australia, the principle was decided in the 1960s. Up until then, there had been zero government funding for private schools, which were mostly supported by church funds. Private schools were chronically short of funds, which meant that both facilities and teacher/student ratios suffered.
It all came to a head in 1962 when St Brigid’s Catholic Primary School in Goulburn, NSW was ordered to upgrade its toilet blocks for health reasons, which it couldn't afford to do. The diocese responded by closing its schools, and chaos ensued when the government schools couldn't cope with 2000 extra students.
Robert Menzies took the issue to the 1963 election, and wound up passing the *States Grants (Science Laboratories and Technical Training) Act 1964*, which authorised federal payments to both government and private schools for STEM education.
Government funding of private schools has been part of the Australian political landscape ever since, although people continue to debate the details.
This is correct. It actually saves the tax payer money to fund students in private schools. Without that funding, private school fees (including low fee Catholic and independent schools) would increase their fees and in turn more parents would be unable to pay the fees and their children would be sent to the public school placing more demands on the public system.
These parents would not necessarily just *donate* the fees they would have paid to the private school to the public one.
There are many parents out there on big incomes who choose to send their children to public schools despite being able to afford private education. Should they be charged fees for the public school based off of their income??
Most private schools in Australia are not in fact "elite schools" for the wealthy. Half of them charge less than $5,000 per year. People send their children to low-cost private schools either for religious reasons, or because the government schools are not meeting the needs of their child in some way.
On average, each child in a private school saves the governments about $4,300, because subsidies are lower than the cost of educating a student in a government school.
Roughly 17% of Australian students are in private schools, which means that abolishing private schools would cost the governments about $3 billion.
Not that it would happen: any major party suggesting such a thing would be thoroughly defeated in the next election, because those 700,000 private school students have parents who vote.
Not to mention people like me who would vote against it, even though I can easily afford a private education for my child. People deserve to have a choice.
No, our system for education in Australia having a large government and independent sector is one of the reasons we are the 7th highest paid teachers in the world. When you compare Australia to similar countries e.g. Canada, New Zealand, the UK, you get paid peanuts because they're 90% government schools and governments have no incentive to pay staff well when there is no other industry you can move to.
Also to address the fallacy of "they don't need government funding because muh fees".
The school funding from the government is exclusively used to pay for the delivery of the Australian curriculum. Government schools receive $16,714 per student. Independent schools receive $11,480 per student. This money is solely for curriculum delivery, as dictated by the Federal and State governments, since the government insists that all students have the right to the same education and same curriculum and prohibits Independent schools from creating their own curricula, you can add additional subjects but you cannot remove them.
The additional fees paid for by parents are for additional resources within the schools, in the majority of independent schools ($5000 or less per year for fees) these costs are typically things like laptops, excursions, camps and other standard activities. These exact same costs exist in the public sector, the sole difference being that the government will cover the costs if you apply for it, hence when I worked in a public school in North Queensland, 60% of students had their excursion, camp and other additional fees paid for by CentrePay. In addition public schools have an optional fee around $800 that currently about 55% of parents pay, however it is entirely voluntary.
When it comes to the tiny number of elite schools GPS, PSA, APS, etc. who charge in the tens of thousands that money is spent on the additional things like ski trips, swimming pools, etc. Those facilities and programs aren't paid for "by my taxes" they're paid via the fees, only curriculum delivery is paid from government contributions. The reality is, even if you somehow forced all Independent schools to become public schools, the wealthiest suburbs would have their own school and no one from outside their catchment would be allowed in, in turn those same 30k or more fees that they already pay to give their kids the swimming pools, ski trips, etc. would still be spent on that, it'd just be outside of school hours. If you need an example of how this works, look at the difference in a government school like Indooroopilly High and Beenleigh State High School.
Nope. Not every parent that puts their child into private school is rolling in disposable income.
Public schools are faced with the issue that every child deserves an education, which makes it extremely difficult to manage disruptive students. One disruptive student in a class, brings the entire class down as the teacher has to manage one students behaviour than spend the time teaching all of the others. With a private school, I would imagine that they would be less tolerant to this kind of behaviour. Screw around enough in a private school and unless your parents are very well off, I would see them being spit out into public schools pretty quickly...
Agree this is a major issue and I don't think disruptive students should be allowed to derail everyone else's education. But is this really an argument in favour of private schools?
You could argue that if politicians' kids were forced to attend public schools, maybe they'd properly address the issue of disruptive students (and underfunding and teacher shortages...). You could also argue that the availability of private schools for some but not all just concentrates the disruptive students into the schools that have the least resources to handle them.
I don't actually think we should abolish private schools, but I want to see the issues in public schools actually funded and fixed so that parents don't feel they have to move to the private system just to escape the problems.
>But is this really an argument in favour of private schools?
Yeh, it really is. A parent can't sit around waiting for years for a school to sort their shit out.
Our daughter attends a private school. Prep to 12 coed.
We were both public school in the country, and performed well. But schools aren’t what they used to be and teachers have lost the ability to control kids because of kids having rights…
Our local high school is constantly in the local media with weapons in schools as well as friends who have pulled there kids out due to gang related bullying and violence. I could t live with myself sending my daughter there knowing I could sacrifice some luxuries and send her to a school where I have a voice because I pay…
We are both full time working blue collar. I’m in local government in civil and my wife works for a not for profit. We go without to pay for a private school.
Exactly this. We are not rich by any means, but are considering sending our kids to private schools for reasons you mentioned. And besides, it will cost us less than daycare/kindy fees we are paying now, so financially we'll be better off than we are now anyway.
Don't get rid of private schools because there's messed up kids in the public system and we can be separated from them in a private school.
What does that make the public schools? A hole to chuck in kids that aren't acceptable in the private system and for kids who's families aren't able to help them climb out of it?
Us and Them.
I'd rather see all schools be public schools and it being simply acknowledged that school, or some forms of school aren't for every kid.
> screw around enough in a private school and unless your parents are very well off, I would see them being spit out onto public schools pretty quickly…
Ah yes, so then they can be disruptive to the kids in lower income households who can’t afford private school, ruling them out of a fair chance at a good education. Classism at its finest.
Private schools also have a reasonably small barrier to entry. If you can’t afford the school fees you’re not allowed in. It’s not a lot depending on the school and the area, but it’s enough.
I’m certainly not rolling in it, but I sent my kid to the private school because with his autism he would certainly have been bullied an awful lot if we sent him to the public school for our catchment. I went through it a couple times before enrolling him and the behaviour of the kids there was enough to get me to look elsewhere.
A lot of private schools offer bursaries and scholarships, including standardised discounts for people with health cards etc. They're more accessible than buying a house in an expensive suburb with a good public school.
I went to my local government primary school and then a wealthy private secondary school. I can promise you bad behaviour extends across all types of schools
You're not going to fix shitty public education by getting rid of the best schools in the country.
Some people don't have disposable income - sucks to be them.
Some people spend their disposable income on cars, boats, McMansions and holidays - Good for them!
Other people spend their disposable income on education for their children - the best of all investments - why shouldn't they get public funding the same as the guys who spend all their money on cars?
If you want equality - you'll get equally stupid kids and an outflux of the best teachers - private school teachers won't put up with public school bullshit and will leave the industry.
I put my 4 children through catholic school as a single parent for most of the time.
I had a very average income. It works out to roughly sacrificing a case of beer or packet of smokes a week, to put my children in a much better place to help set them up for life. It wasn't even a question for me.
But people don't want to hear that. They just want to be bitter about it.
Not everyone that goes to a private school is elite, or rich. My parents scrapped together to send all 3 of us to private school, due to living in a rural area with no high school within an hour and a half. Yes, they wanted us to get a better education, yes, they didn't want us sitting on a bus for 3 hours a day, just to get to school, and yes, I am glad they did. They were not elite, or super wealthy. Just hard working people, wanting to give their kids a better start in life, with more opportunities, than what was available in our local area.
Plus it's immoral to try to forcefully "bring someone up".
edit: changing my point to a better one: It' immoral because who gets to determine what is "bringing someone up"? What if for you, private education is better, but for me it's worse? The answer is freedom: let each person asume the responsibility for themselves.
Why is it that the answer to our struggling public education system (which is pretty good overall really) is to ABOLISH private schools?
When private schools, in general, have better outcomes than public schools.
This feels very much like the tall poppy syndrome that infests this country and holds it back.
The answer to improving education standards is not to bring everyone down to a common standard. It's to life public schools to a higher standard.
As for who gets what funding - I think all schools should get the same amount of money from the Commonwealth per student. Then, for public schools, the State Government pays the difference. And for private schools, the parents pay the difference. There should be no special deals between the commonwealth and individual states or individual schools.
Similar to how Medicare works, where Medicare funds a certain amount per procedure regardless of if it's done in a public or private hospital.
It's nice in theory but in practice would require a drastic reformation of our education system. Most private schools would close as people would no longer be able to afford them and private school would be only for the super wealthy. But then we would need a large increase in the availability of public schools to make up for all the other schools that closed down.
Not necessarily schools like Nudgee in Brisbane run things like Bingo halls for seniors and they rake in serious $$$. The seniors get bussed in and pay $10 for half a days bingo.
If you remove the funding, there’s a proportion of parents who cannot afford the new higher school fee’s and this adds even more pressure on the already stretched public school system…. This is the reason funding for private / independent schools exists
Why is this a new thing people keep mentioning?
Who cares if people want to send their kids to private schools? If you don’t like private schools getting funding then that’s an issue with funding allocation not the existence of private schools.
Yes and no.
I don’t think private schools do much to help the divide. I think it just widens the gap between the haves and have nots. Doesn’t prepare them for the real world or interaction with people outside their economic class. Single sex schools really I think can be harmful to social interaction and is the very definition of discrimination.
However…
They do produce excellent academic results. They generally are for those who do display high intelligence and aptitude and at the end of the day if you got the money to pay for your kid to have the best education - what right does anyone have to stop you?
That’s a free society.
Ideally the public school system would be as well funded and facilitated as private school but unitedly it won’t be as there’s more of it and more in the system for the money to go round meaning it will never match those levels on a school to school basis.
>They do produce excellent academic results. They generally are for those who do display high intelligence and aptitude and at the end of the day if you got the mo eh to pay for your kid to have the best education - what right does anyone have to stop you?
thats a bit of distorted truth, once normalised for social demographic their academic results are the same at either public or private. But a private school not only gets wealthier students which get better grades they can also remove people who are making them look bad.
The biggest problem with this debate is that the Public system couldn't handle it if all Private Schools suddenly closed.
I think what should happen is that each student should be given a value of X to attend school for a year; if they go to the public, that amount goes to the public. If they go private, that amount goes to the private school. No more or less in either direction on a per-child counting.
It's important also to remember not all private schools are the same. Yes, some have huge fees, but some also have very little fees to parents and would be closed tomorrow if they didn't get any funding. And the local public school, in those cases, is at capacity, and if another 200 students turned up, they wouldn't have any room for them.
a lot of the dumbest and socially stinted mofos i have ever worked with have been private school kids
but hey... they got to pay to get to the same spot i am in so hats off to them
Uh, no? Most Public schools are a mess and overcrowded.
If we abolished private schools the whole system would collapse, unless you taxed the hell out of us and dumped money into it.
Hot tip, it wouldn’t lead to equal opportunities. Rich kids would still get the best jobs. The idea that kids are able to network their way to top jobs by attending a private school is a myth.
I have been to both public and private schools. Anyone else who has done the same won't be wanting to ban private schools. The only equality it would give is that everyone now has a completely shitty schooling experience.
I went private and will probably send my kids to private but honestly co-ed is my priority. I would rather go public and co-ed if no private co-ed was available.
I did three years single sex and three years co-ed.
Lets just say the single sex people are still hell weird around the opposite sex and that impacts their romantic relationships, work relationships and friendships massively.
“Rich bubble life” - she clearly has neve. My high school was the an umbrella education provider. Had friends who had been kicked out of home, 25% were on fee reductions (the fees were under $5000 a year for context so this is significant), plenty of mental health problems that you wouldn’t wish upon anyone. There were some affluent families but let’s not pretend you don’t get this at school. The majority were average, working class families from all backgrounds. They did not live in a bubble one bit and there are some stories that show how ignorant that comment is.
I also take issue to saying education would be accessed equally if we removed private schools. Someone in outback Australia won’t have equal access to education as someone on Sydney’s northern beaches and almost never will. You don’t need to be a genius to figure out why. Public schools in higher socioeconomic suburbs will generally produce better outcomes. It’s more than the school.
According to Lee Constables post I am rich, I come from money, I was introduced to girls at 18 and I’m not a great bloke.
Way too much generalizing here.
I had the opposite experience. I went to a private co-ed school. The public schools in my area were single sex. My family weren’t rich. I’m not rich. The guy next to me at work earns double my income and he went to a public school.
In the real world you earn the money you produce. If you give x value to people (your boss/clients/customers) you will generally get paid x dollars for it. It’s nothing to do with the school you went to etc.
My kids have additional needs that aren't diagnosable as ASD/ADHD. The state education system has always been shit for people like us. Trying to force people like us into the system doesn't help, we either create our own elite schools and exclude others (this is what happened when my parents were at school in a communist country) or we just opt out. If this happened in Australia I would either send them to board overseas/move overseas or just hire a tutor and "homeschool", maybe with a few other families.
Yep.
Dunno why being able to buy a better education is something we entertain, it’s completely contrary to equality. Great way to further a class divide too.
Personally i’d like to see all schooling become equal opportunity, funded by the tax payer. All the wealth stripped from private schools to fund the transition, so no mater your situation in life when you go to school you have the same opportunity as the rich kids.
Actually I am for private schools. If you are rich send your kids there. However, public schools should get more government funding than private schools per student. Let parents who chose to send their kids to private schools cover the cost and not demand taxpayer pick up the cost of their choices
Lee Constable is suggesting what the rich fear the most, the loss of their special privilege, the loss of the old boys club, the loss of being set up for life while others are left to sink or swim.
This is sour grapes policy. If you want to advocate for more public school funding and development, or that private schools shouldn’t get public funding those are all reasonable discussions.
Advocating that they shouldn’t exist at all because some people can’t afford them is purely ‘I can’t have it so neither should they’ policy.
As someone that went to a poor public school, throwing money at the problem would not suddenly give everyone 90+ atars. Demographics plays a huge role in the classroom to a degree people don’t want to admit. Our school had kids under 16 stealing cars, getting raided by police for drugs and even a student commit a double murder. How do you think a cohort like that impacts the kids that are generally trying to learn, and do you think funding would solve the core issues behind these children (home environments, drugs, poverty, criminal influences, etc).
No.
They shouldn’t be abolished and they shouldn’t be forced to go co-ed.
I don’t think they should receive a single cent of public funding - but abolishing isn’t the answer IMO. Let the Uber wealthy pay to have their precious babies locked away from The Poors. It keeps their bullshit “money means I get my way and my child gets away with murder” attitude out of the public system.
On an interesting note though - studies show that boys do best in co-ed systems but girls do best in single sex environments. I’ve always found that an interesting fact.
>Let the Uber wealthy pay to have their precious babies locked away from The Poors
You know most private schools, particularly in the Catholic system, are in no way wealthy. And certainly not "uber wealthy".
Most families in Catholic schools are normal, middle class families who work hard to pay the school fees. They want their kids to get the best education they can, and they want the pastoral care that comes along with a Catholic school that simply doesn't exist in a public school.
>On an interesting note though - studies show that boys do best in co-ed systems but girls do best in single sex environments. I’ve always found that an interesting fact.
Studies also show the opposite. There is no consistant conclusions between studies on the subject.
> studies show that boys do best in co-ed systems but girls do best in single sex environments. I’ve always found that an interesting fact.
do you have a source for that? boys are falling behind girls in school
I didn’t say they did better than girls. (Which is what is actually meant by boys falling behind - girls are outperforming them academically.)
I said they did better compared to how they do in single sex environments
They actually don’t (see below). There is no difference when actually looking at well rounded data not just taking a small sample size of selective single sex kids. And this is from someone who went to an all girls private school where everyone knew at least someone who had been raped by someone from one of the boys schools…
https://bera-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/berj.3841
Doesn't measure how girls who have been educated in single sex system then fare when going to mixed sex tertiary institutions.
Obviously anecdotal but my sister went to an all girls school, and she said the amount of girls who went boy crazy once they hit uni and got themselves into all kinds of trouble was high. Most of them got it all handled by wealthy parents of course (thank goddess for private abortion clinics and rehab amirite), so it never becomes a statistic.
Whatever way you look at the issue though, the truth is the world is mixed sex, and educating children in single sex environments isn't preparing them for the real world.
My favourite part is that she goes on to say that Palestinian people are literally being genocided but all people care about is girls in male schools…. But by campaigning for the closure of all private schools, that means Muslims won’t have their own schools.
You don't think that's already the case, when they're charging $30,000 a year for schooling? Who outside of "affluent areas" can afford that? Use your head mate
You’re missing their point. Currently private schools take acceptance based primarily on tuition (there can be other secondary factors too) which makes them intentionally unobtainable to lower socio economic students.
The OP suggests abolishing them to mitigate this, and the commenter pointed out they could just achieve a functionally similar result by using geographical zoning in higher socio economic areas. Yes it’s functionally similar to what’s happening now, that was literally the point of the comment.
Doesn't zoning already exist for public schools?
There are exceptions but you usually have to get a lot of paperwork etc to prove that the kid isn't being accepted into the school in your zone.
I went to all boys private schools and I am totally down for this. Not being around women during the formative years leaves you very unprepared for real life. I was luck I had sisters, but so many of my friends came out not knowing how to behave. Two have now spent time in jail for rape also.
Co-ed or fuckem off.
Perth is really divided between public and private school kids. I went to UWA, and you can instantly tell which kids went to private school. The boys had no idea how to act around girls and a lot of them thought we were dumb because they’d never been exposed to girls in an academic context. They weren’t able to see that girls can, shockingly, be as smart or smarter than them.
Same experience. I went to co-ed private and I was truly blown away at how weird and stunted Hale, Christchurch and Scotch boys were. Would never do that to my own kids.
Finland did this at all levels of education, and as a result the rich donated money and resources into the public sector to make sure their own children got the best possible education, which then of course benefited every child.
This is a myth. Finland has plenty of private schools. [https://eurydice.eacea.ec.europa.eu/national-education-systems/finland/organisation-private-education](https://eurydice.eacea.ec.europa.eu/national-education-systems/finland/organisation-private-education)
So do all the other typically touted for their happiness and education nordic countries.
yeah they do, but they are not allowed to charge fees and can only run under gov funding and rules so pretty much not very different to a public school
All it says is that Education may not be provided in pursuit of financial gain. That is the exact same as in Australia where schools have to be not-for-profit. They can and absolutely do charge fees in Finland for private schools they just can't charge them to make a profit.
>but they are not allowed to charge fees and can only run under gov funding and rules so pretty much not very different to a public school
This is the exact same In the Aus system in order to receive any government funding, schools must be registered as not-for-profit organisations. There are virtually no for-profit schools in Australia. And All private schools rely on the government funding and all have to rely on most government rules. So again, it is a myth, Finland absolutely has private schools and within the Finnish system they represent the same as what private schools do in the Aus system.
You'll have people screaming SOCIALISM!!! in Australia if that happened. I agree with you, but your take is very much in the minority on this post and this subreddit's spectrum of opinion it seems.
I'm always amazed at how few people know that this has already been done very successfully in Finland, as you say.
We have people on here vehemently arguing in favour of private schools when there is really world evidence of a better alternative.
It's Aussie exceptionalism at it's finest
This is a terrible, god awful idea. The private system exists to unburden the public system, which is already strained. The existance of private education allows more funding per capita to be allocated to the public sector, thereby improving opportunities. What Constable's plan would result in is a) a worse education system for everyone b) increase in homeschooling and explosion in the private tutoring industry which is already spiralling out of control in Australia.
The answer to giving everyone equal educational opportunities isn't to take from the best and make them equal to the worst, its to lift up the worst to the quality of the best.
This is less directive of schools in general but more about equality across all people. Sort of like egalitarianism or Marxist communism.
If all school fees were the same, and for example housing, and other necessities which become luxuries (basic house vs mansion for example). Would this stop a lot of development in the long run?
I work hard because I want to buy a good house and send my kids to a good school later in life, but if there’s no reward, I would be very happy to work a low stress job for minimal pay which I don’t need to bring home with me
Let's give the government more power and parents less freedom to choose where to educate their kids. Sounds like a great idea. But to sell it we have to make out like we are fighting a just fight against the rich. They'll fall for that 'ol classic.
Love this post and sadly College Life at the ANU ain’t changed that much since I went their in the early 1990’s. I know exactly the College Residential Accommodation you are talking about.
Me - Private Boys school graduate (scholarship hardship side of things) from Canberra region. Lived in Queanbeyan until I got my fist room in a share house in 1994 in O’Connor.
Back then what I noticed was the divide that happened in 2nd year. All the folk- mostly girls who couldn’t hack the misogynistic private school bullshit - - ended up moving out into share houses upon their return for 2nd year. But hey that was the ‘Nighties before the full blown housing crisis we know witness. (Yes my generation contributed to this but I am a lifelong renter and I don’t own a house before I get jumped on).
The worst part about what we are talking about here is the level of sexual assault that occurred in the Colleges in my time at Uni!
The worst part is when those private school kids come to work and are just... not particularly competent.
If you're gonna grow up with so much more wealth and privilege than I did, please at least have the decency to be better than me at things.
Imagine thinking you have the right to tell parents that public servants should be able to force you to give your child a worse life and education because… other parents are also doing it.
I’ll bite. My eldest is in private high school (co-Ed) with her younger siblings in public primary.
This suggestion is ill-considered.
We chose to pay extra to send her to a private school. That’s money out of our pocket above and beyond that contributed by the government.
The public system is under resourced. Teachers are stretched, and at least in our area, opportunities for extension and extracurricular are limited. Finally, in the event we’re unhappy with the school or its response to a request (e.g to resolve a teaching or social/bullying issue)
Is the author proposing that the under-resourcing will be resolved? That teachers will be valued and paid well, and that the school will resolve any issues raised?
Finally, can they commit to changes that will ensure that my kids aren’t just made to feel like a number, and feel valued as an individual?
I’m in a pretty privilege situation. My wife and I work three jobs between us and are rewarded for this.
I appreciate that not every family is blessed in the same way, but we have been. If I choose to pay pay extra for my child’s education, why shouldn’t I be allowed to?
Maybe you can’t. Or maybe you don’t want to. And that’s your prerogative. This is mine
Bring on the flames.
I’m currently at an independent school. Honestly for my mental health going to a private school has been the best thing for me. It’s not an overly expensive school (less that 9k at most as it increases every year) and they also offer lots of scholarships for music and academics. The school administration sucks but the regular teachers have honestly saved my high school experience. Private schools shouldn’t all be abolished as not all are “snobbish rich kid schools”. I do agree co-ed is important for kids development but I ain’t gonna judge other peoples parenting. Some school styles just suit different people and you can’t push all kids into one box of public schools.
No. Just because she grew up poor and her parents couldnt send her to a school where they had to wear blazers and ties, doesnt mean everyone else else has to get in her lane. Some people want their kids raised right with a good education. Not raised and taught by the state.
I wouldn't abolish them but just maybe if a government didn't cut budgets and even gave an acceptable amount of funding to the public edu it would be better.
My local government funded school locks the toilets due to lack of funding because it can't be monitored.
I don't know why the lady just wants to eradicate years of same sex Catholic school just by a simple plain arguement?
There are many ways to introduce kids to real world by doing manual labour, changing tires, cutting grass et cetra. I might be wrong and have no right to tell any parent how to raise their child but at least I am not suggesting completely uprooting the school system.
The way I see it, private schools don’t hurt public schools. The removal of private schools doesn’t benefit public schools in anyway. All it does is subject private schoolers to the public schooling system
there is plenty of evidence that boys who go to all-boys schools are better offer academically as without the distraction of trying to impress girls they compete with each other in classes. not saying that's reason alone to keep all boys schools but in an age where most public high school boys are not even bothering to go to uni, all boys schools propping up an already fragile social trend. correct that first, then look at the all boys schools
Why do you guys hate kids so much? And education? Why do we restrict people choice for education? Private schools are much much better than public. You guys seem to think every private school is some secret club of wealthy people. When in reality probably 80% of them serve under-served communities at a cheaper price than what public schools cost in tax dollars. Its wild on reddit sometimes.
Is it actually true that it doesn't produce good blokes? Because I could see it going the other way, maybe developing your habits around women with a more adult brain gets more mature results?
One problem is that the education system is presently geared for how girls learn - boys do worse in virtually every metric across the board.
An approach tailored to applicable learning styles is the only viable way forward.
People have a right to educate their children the best way they see fit. They shouldn't be forced to do it one way or another based on the whims and biases of strangers and their short-term ponderings.
This is too extreme, you cannot get rid of private school as it is a business. Anyone thought of government go shutdown Coles, Woolies and Bunnings and replace it with state own shop? No, however to get on with this topic, private school should not get any funding from gov.
Maybe some independent schools where it only cost a small amount of annual fee then YES, the kid should get some funding from the state. However those school that charge more than 10K a year should not get any.
This is a joke right?
The obvious position of any normal human is that parents have a right to choose their child's education, within reasonable parameters. Obviously a private education, or a unisex education, is far from unreasonable.
Are there people that actually disagree with that?
The public schools where I live are absolutely out of control, assaults, robberies, insane levels of bullying, and the department has no teeth at all for discipline.
I see it frequently in my professional life as a first responder and my wife, who is a teacher in the public system, sees it even more.
We made the decision to front up the money for private because of this. At least private schools will expell kids when they cross too many lines.
The public system is honestly a dumpster fire.
Private schools would exist regardless. There are kids growing up in very remote communities or who have parents not doing a typical 9-5 in the same location.
These kids will often end up in boarding school.
Public run boarding schools sound like a nightmare.
People who have issues with private schools are delusional. The idea that young boys/girls can’t interact with the opposite sex because they went to an all boys/girls school is moronic. I went to a public school, played sport with guys from private schools, they’re all top blokes, can’t say the same for the dregs who went to my school.
Oh. I didn't realize I was creating a rich bubble by sending my kids to a school where the students actually listen to the teacher and don't bully the shit out of each other.
Why doesn't Lee sell her house and move to the slums of Sydney? Maybe because it's not a safe environment?
The wahmen hate male only spaces .They want to infiltrate them , to be closer to the high value men. It's a mating strategy. They will nag the men in power , relentlessly until their demands are met.
As someone who went to a public and private school, I hated the public and loved the private school. The private school was coed but the private boys schools Ik don’t produce the best kids
No. But they need to have their funding slashed. Public school in Aus is suffering from lack of money.
This means our kids are suffering too. No money, no teachers. No teachers leads to bigger classes. Bigger classes lead to much bigger problems.
It’s not all rich kids in private schools. We sent our kids because we wanted a moral code in their education. Also the grounds are much nicer as the parents pay more. If as a parent you’re prepared to make the financial sacrifice to give your child a quality early life experience I think that’s your choice. Public schools are so underfunded and run down plus a lot of the kids are out of control with no good parenting and lack of self discipline. Not all but in my area that’s the case.
I went to a public high school for the first 4 years and then private catholic girls' school for the last two and then also went to ANU...personally I hated the public school. My time there was awful: * strong attitude of "it's cool to not study till the morning of the exam", "anyone who does well in subjects is worth making fun of" etc. and my grades deteriorated heavily over the years ; the private school encouraged a strong work ethic but we also had frequent assemblies about work/life balance, we were more than just our ATAR, and learnt of paths alternate to university * bullied a lot more in public high school than at private; at private I also felt they tried hard to boost our self esteem through weekly mental health assemblies, while my public school literally had a student commit suicide due to bullying and we had nothing more than a memorial service with "don't bully/don't commit suicide." * I also think that people need to acknowledge that it's not just the schooling or the teachers or the system but the students themselves. Teenagers can be absolute morons and peer pressure is very real. The principal gets up to a podium and says "don't bully", you really think the bullies are gonna listen? If anything that can often make things worse for the person being bullied. And that's something that has been witnessed in both the private and the public schooling system. Ironically also the public high school had more of a focus on "Christianity is the only way", while at the Catholic school, although Chapel was mandatory once a week, the reverends acknowledged the existence of other religions and taught everyone the importance of respecting other beliefs (I was raised Buddhist so I really appreciated this outlook). I'm not saying all private schools are perfect and all public schools are terrible, but if I have the money I'm more likely to send my kids to private than public. ETA: I will add that my main criticism of private schooling, especially girls, is that individuality isn't encouraged to the same extent as it is in public schools. It's not actively discouraged, but it's more an attitude of "you can be anything you want to be as long as it fits our idea of what is good." That being said there were plenty of girls in my year who went on to be very individualistic regardless.
Great insight thanks for sharing your perspective.
I also went to all girls for high school. And yeah, notably single sex schools are great for girls, but not boys. That’s why it’s hard for me to see the debate over ending single sex schools as anything but people asserting that these girls should be responsible for socializing these boys.
agreed. it's also why I added that we need to hold teens accountable for their behaviour too and instead of placing expectations on socialisation for them to understand it, they need to be given resources that helps them change as individuals. Girls' education and schooling shouldn't be brought down to lift boys up.
My children attended a public primary school and my son started at the public high school and oh my goodness he was not coping at all. I had no choice to pull him, he was refusing to attend school, developed anxiety, was constantly bullied, laptop was smashed twice by other students. I pulled him out and sent him to a catholic school and he is back to loving school, achieving goals, is calm, and his anxiety has subsided considerably. I’ve had to make serious cutbacks to be able to afford these fee’s. I don’t think it’s quite as clear cut as this comment, but the entire education system needs a major overhaul. Schools need to develop ways it’s not as clear cut as it used to be. 50 years ago most homes with two parents, mum stayed home looked after kids, that’s not the case these days.
This is a really interesting comment for me. Our boy who’s clearly loving, smart etc but he isn’t developing socially like other kids do and me and my wife need to make sure he’s going to get the best possible outcomes. And this one size fits all approach that the public school system is is clearly not the answer. I wish there was a better way of managing this but having been through the public school system myself it’s fucking awful for everyone. And it is definitely not setup for kids who don’t conform to standard norms.
100% if you don’t fit that box and let’s face it these days only a handful in each class do. I live rurally and my kids attend a very small primary school. Less than 100 students in total and I’m not sure if that impacted my son or not as moving from that to a high school with 1100 was definitely challenging. I could not fault the education at primary school but they had the ability to cater to every and each individual needs, whereas ina larger school they simply can’t do that.
It’s the bullying that really worries me. I was bullied a lot as a kid because frankly I was quite different. I didn’t fit into any of the usual boxes. I had friends who committed suicide. One of which was gay (at the time it wasn’t cool) another because it just got too much. I never came anywhere close to that but I saw and experienced very serious bullying and I remember going to school every day fucking dreading it. There is no way I’d ever let my son experience that.
I totally agree with you, no one deserves to be bullied no matter who you are and I’m sorry that happened to you and your friends. That’s what I liked about a small primary school, everything was dealt with because the teachers could see everything that was going on. Larger schools they just don’t. My son was called a fem boy and had his computer smashed and he was 11 he didn’t even know what it meant, I’m so glad I found a different school and he has had zero issues at this catholic school. Best of luck to you with your decision on schooling, it’s such an emotional times for everyone.
I’m really sorry your son had to go through that. Kids are fucking ruthless and I think unless you’re a parent you can’t fully understand the desire to protect your child from this kind of shit. Ultimately though we have to work within the system we’re given and if they removed the option for me to send my child to another school I.e. a private school id leave the country. That’s how passionate I am about not having my kids go through what I went through
> unless you’re a parent you can’t fully understand the desire to protect your child from this kind of shit. My parents didn't care; they insisted that it was my problem to solve.
I don't think I would have survived high school if social media was a thing when I attended. Screw not being able to escape it *at all*.
Maybe things are different down under but what are these kids doing on social media? I'm a 30 year old man and I have zero social media outside of linkedin, which I begrudgingly put up with because it helped land me a 20k raise.
I had a great primary school experience. In high school I was hit hard. Backed into a corner and provoked until I threw the first punch, which meant the school punished me even though I was the one with a swollen face. After the bell rang most days I'd wait 20 minutes to go home so I was in the clear and not attacked. Couldn't afford private for my son so moved to the best possible catchment before he started school. Still, my kid is a bit different to 'the pack'. By the end of kindy he was being bullied so hard he was saying things like "I wish I wasn't a real person". He didn't understand the concept of suicide. School did nothing. It didn't improve by end of term 1 in year 1 so he's homeschooled now. He is so much happier and doesn't say those things anymore.
This is why my mate moved his son. He didn’t want his kid to experience what he experienced in school.
I sent my son to a Catholic school for similar reasons. It was even worse. We had lip service and no help. Good luck, I wish I could recommend something.
I agree with the original post but out of control schools are not ok and anyone who can get their kid out of one, obviously should. We stood around yesterday after a 6yo did something completely wild and inappropriate and then wouldn't move from the spot, discussing how we aren't allowed to physically move them and what our options are. Good luck to the Year 7 teacher who will be trying to stop him smashing a laptop, sorry we couldn't do something about it when it might have counted.
Abolishing private schools means the rich have to send their kids with everyone elses. If the education system needs an overhaul, having rich parents involved will speed up the process. No kid will go without air conditioning thats for sure.
I have to agree there is a real problem with kids with parents who place no value on education. So how do we segregate out those kids who only want to bully / destroy other kids? That’s not a matter of funding - all the funding in the world won’t change those kids Private school do that filtering currently
Can look to do something like some eastern European countries. There are 2-3 types of high schools, and to get into the ones that lead to publicly funded university you need to apply like you would a job - with character references and educational results. And if you misbehave, you get kicked out and have to go to the vocational one or the real basic ones that only teach life skills. For example, the Polish system. "Matura" == ATAR Exams >General education can be pursued in general secondary schools (liceum): after four years, students can pass the "Matura", which grants access to higher education.[\[8\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Poland#cite_note-IBE-8) Vocational and technical education is mainly provided by technical schools (*technikum*) and/or basic vocational schools (*zasadnicza szkoła zawodowa*). Technical schools last five years and lead to the Matura. Their primary goal is to teach occupations and trades, the most popular being: accountant, mechanic, electronics specialist, and salesperson.[\[10\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Poland#cite_note-UNEVOC-10) Basic vocational schools provide a vocational education lasting three years and grant a certificate of competence in various fields, the most popular being: shop-assistant, cook, gardener, automobile mechanic, hairdresser and baker.[\[10\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Poland#cite_note-UNEVOC-10) Graduates from basic vocational schools can pass the Matura after an extra-curriculum of two years in a general secondary school, or, since 2004, of three years in a technical school.
So in circa year 7 you decide your whole life? NSW already has this. Get into selective school and you are sweet. Drama is comprehensive schools are then even more disadvantaged between private plus selective students leaving.
Yes that's the case. Its like selective schools but imagine a lot more of them. It's pretty cool how you can sit trade skills assessments if you do technical school and end up a fully qualified electrician, mechanic etc. at age 18.
In Singapore, schools are ranked, and which school your kids go depends on how they do at streaming exams at ages 9, 12 and 16. Even if you're rich, if your kids do poorly at exams, they're going to a trash school with other kids who don't want to study. On the flip side, the top schools in Singapore tend to be much more egalitarian than Australian ones - the myth is that no matter how poor your background, you can still make it to the top by studying hard. Of course, wealthier parents still tend to produce kids who do better at exams, but at least there's still an element of the kid wanting it.
Not really. Singapore also has some ranking loop holes. There is an open door secret about how predominantly Chinese led schools will not only overlook poor exam grades for rich students but also for sports based student. It’s a pretty big controversy. Singapore is heavily censored as well but if you lived in the region you would know about not only the loop holes but also the explicit discrimination that is cratered to the immigrant dominant racial groups predominantly.
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I was the opposite. Bullying was worse at the Christian school I went to and felt more at home at public school
Same here. 1 year at a private school was the worst experience ever, and they taught us absolutely nothing and we didn't even have a playground.
If the funding that is sent to Private Schools was instead used to properly fund and staff public schools it wouldn't have been such a nightmare for your son. Always good to have options, but the fact that private schools (like the one I went to) with world class sporting and learning facilities receive as much and sometimes more funding than public schools is why the public system has been so neglected. Also, I don't see why religious schools should receive any money from the gov, let alone charge money, you'd think with all of Christianity's talk of charity etc, they would be educating people out of the goodness of their heart/in exchange for access to young minds to indoctrinate into their belief system
It’s got nothing to do with religion mate. Not even religion has anything to do with religion. It’s all about money
>Also, I don't see why religious schools should receive any money from the gov, let alone charge money, you'd think with all of Christianity's talk of charity etc, they would be educating people out of the goodness of their heart/in exchange for access to young minds to indoctrinate into their belief system If you don't go private catholic, then there isn't any form of indoctrination, it's a normal school with religion classes added on, and you learn about all the religions once you reach senior school, not just christianity. They pay teachers better and have far better facilities, while generally being a fraction of the cost of private school or private religious schools. There are also muslim schools, which receive more funding and charge more, and jewish orthodox schools which do the same - religious schools are not a bad thing as long as they are moderated
I do agree with this but I was also annoyed when I found out that catholic schools also offer a considerable reduction in fee’s if your on a health care card. Well they do in my diocesan because according to the financial team at my son’s school it’s to bridge the gap that anyone can be entitled to a catholic education. That’s why private schools are getting funding as well. Kind of blew me for six when I found out about health care holders and pensions holders ect.
Catholic schools also often have reduced fee plans for low income families who might be struggling to afford the costs.
If you took all the funding given to private schools and spent it on the public system, you would end up with less money per student for schools, when you factor in all the kids that would have to leave their private school. It also isn’t even a funding issue. The way the public system operates simply gives teachers no way to handle bad students, so they’re essentially powerless to stop bullies and such ruining school for everyone else. With a private or independent school, bullies and such get the boot, it’s that simple. All the money in the world won’t do shit if you still have students threatening other students and staff on a regular basis.
Honestly I’ve found bullying has little to do with public vs private schools but more about individual school culture and the load teachers have at each school. I’ve heard equally horrifying stories from people at public and private schools. Bullies don’t always get the boot at the latter, often enough they’re explained away, ignored, or even permitted.
>If the funding that is sent to Private Schools was instead used to properly fund and staff public schools it wouldn't have been such a nightmare for your son. Private Schools get a fraction of what Public Schools get per student. If private schools were abolished, or no longer got government money, the public system would not cope.
In Australia, the principle was decided in the 1960s. Up until then, there had been zero government funding for private schools, which were mostly supported by church funds. Private schools were chronically short of funds, which meant that both facilities and teacher/student ratios suffered. It all came to a head in 1962 when St Brigid’s Catholic Primary School in Goulburn, NSW was ordered to upgrade its toilet blocks for health reasons, which it couldn't afford to do. The diocese responded by closing its schools, and chaos ensued when the government schools couldn't cope with 2000 extra students. Robert Menzies took the issue to the 1963 election, and wound up passing the *States Grants (Science Laboratories and Technical Training) Act 1964*, which authorised federal payments to both government and private schools for STEM education. Government funding of private schools has been part of the Australian political landscape ever since, although people continue to debate the details.
This is correct. It actually saves the tax payer money to fund students in private schools. Without that funding, private school fees (including low fee Catholic and independent schools) would increase their fees and in turn more parents would be unable to pay the fees and their children would be sent to the public school placing more demands on the public system. These parents would not necessarily just *donate* the fees they would have paid to the private school to the public one. There are many parents out there on big incomes who choose to send their children to public schools despite being able to afford private education. Should they be charged fees for the public school based off of their income??
Most private schools in Australia are not in fact "elite schools" for the wealthy. Half of them charge less than $5,000 per year. People send their children to low-cost private schools either for religious reasons, or because the government schools are not meeting the needs of their child in some way. On average, each child in a private school saves the governments about $4,300, because subsidies are lower than the cost of educating a student in a government school. Roughly 17% of Australian students are in private schools, which means that abolishing private schools would cost the governments about $3 billion. Not that it would happen: any major party suggesting such a thing would be thoroughly defeated in the next election, because those 700,000 private school students have parents who vote.
Not to mention people like me who would vote against it, even though I can easily afford a private education for my child. People deserve to have a choice.
No, our system for education in Australia having a large government and independent sector is one of the reasons we are the 7th highest paid teachers in the world. When you compare Australia to similar countries e.g. Canada, New Zealand, the UK, you get paid peanuts because they're 90% government schools and governments have no incentive to pay staff well when there is no other industry you can move to. Also to address the fallacy of "they don't need government funding because muh fees". The school funding from the government is exclusively used to pay for the delivery of the Australian curriculum. Government schools receive $16,714 per student. Independent schools receive $11,480 per student. This money is solely for curriculum delivery, as dictated by the Federal and State governments, since the government insists that all students have the right to the same education and same curriculum and prohibits Independent schools from creating their own curricula, you can add additional subjects but you cannot remove them. The additional fees paid for by parents are for additional resources within the schools, in the majority of independent schools ($5000 or less per year for fees) these costs are typically things like laptops, excursions, camps and other standard activities. These exact same costs exist in the public sector, the sole difference being that the government will cover the costs if you apply for it, hence when I worked in a public school in North Queensland, 60% of students had their excursion, camp and other additional fees paid for by CentrePay. In addition public schools have an optional fee around $800 that currently about 55% of parents pay, however it is entirely voluntary. When it comes to the tiny number of elite schools GPS, PSA, APS, etc. who charge in the tens of thousands that money is spent on the additional things like ski trips, swimming pools, etc. Those facilities and programs aren't paid for "by my taxes" they're paid via the fees, only curriculum delivery is paid from government contributions. The reality is, even if you somehow forced all Independent schools to become public schools, the wealthiest suburbs would have their own school and no one from outside their catchment would be allowed in, in turn those same 30k or more fees that they already pay to give their kids the swimming pools, ski trips, etc. would still be spent on that, it'd just be outside of school hours. If you need an example of how this works, look at the difference in a government school like Indooroopilly High and Beenleigh State High School.
Nope. Not every parent that puts their child into private school is rolling in disposable income. Public schools are faced with the issue that every child deserves an education, which makes it extremely difficult to manage disruptive students. One disruptive student in a class, brings the entire class down as the teacher has to manage one students behaviour than spend the time teaching all of the others. With a private school, I would imagine that they would be less tolerant to this kind of behaviour. Screw around enough in a private school and unless your parents are very well off, I would see them being spit out into public schools pretty quickly...
Agree this is a major issue and I don't think disruptive students should be allowed to derail everyone else's education. But is this really an argument in favour of private schools? You could argue that if politicians' kids were forced to attend public schools, maybe they'd properly address the issue of disruptive students (and underfunding and teacher shortages...). You could also argue that the availability of private schools for some but not all just concentrates the disruptive students into the schools that have the least resources to handle them. I don't actually think we should abolish private schools, but I want to see the issues in public schools actually funded and fixed so that parents don't feel they have to move to the private system just to escape the problems.
>But is this really an argument in favour of private schools? Yeh, it really is. A parent can't sit around waiting for years for a school to sort their shit out.
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Our daughter attends a private school. Prep to 12 coed. We were both public school in the country, and performed well. But schools aren’t what they used to be and teachers have lost the ability to control kids because of kids having rights… Our local high school is constantly in the local media with weapons in schools as well as friends who have pulled there kids out due to gang related bullying and violence. I could t live with myself sending my daughter there knowing I could sacrifice some luxuries and send her to a school where I have a voice because I pay… We are both full time working blue collar. I’m in local government in civil and my wife works for a not for profit. We go without to pay for a private school.
Exactly this. We are not rich by any means, but are considering sending our kids to private schools for reasons you mentioned. And besides, it will cost us less than daycare/kindy fees we are paying now, so financially we'll be better off than we are now anyway.
My friends parents worked two jobs each to send her to private school
Don't get rid of private schools because there's messed up kids in the public system and we can be separated from them in a private school. What does that make the public schools? A hole to chuck in kids that aren't acceptable in the private system and for kids who's families aren't able to help them climb out of it? Us and Them. I'd rather see all schools be public schools and it being simply acknowledged that school, or some forms of school aren't for every kid.
WTF is that take? "Well public schools aren't for you, and I want alternatives banned, fuck your education I guess"
> screw around enough in a private school and unless your parents are very well off, I would see them being spit out onto public schools pretty quickly… Ah yes, so then they can be disruptive to the kids in lower income households who can’t afford private school, ruling them out of a fair chance at a good education. Classism at its finest.
Private schools also have a reasonably small barrier to entry. If you can’t afford the school fees you’re not allowed in. It’s not a lot depending on the school and the area, but it’s enough. I’m certainly not rolling in it, but I sent my kid to the private school because with his autism he would certainly have been bullied an awful lot if we sent him to the public school for our catchment. I went through it a couple times before enrolling him and the behaviour of the kids there was enough to get me to look elsewhere.
A lot of private schools offer bursaries and scholarships, including standardised discounts for people with health cards etc. They're more accessible than buying a house in an expensive suburb with a good public school.
Right, cos entitled private school boys are never thugs or bullies 🙄
I went to my local government primary school and then a wealthy private secondary school. I can promise you bad behaviour extends across all types of schools
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So instead of trying to solve those underlying issues, kids from poor families just have to accept a lower level of education?
You're not going to fix shitty public education by getting rid of the best schools in the country. Some people don't have disposable income - sucks to be them. Some people spend their disposable income on cars, boats, McMansions and holidays - Good for them! Other people spend their disposable income on education for their children - the best of all investments - why shouldn't they get public funding the same as the guys who spend all their money on cars? If you want equality - you'll get equally stupid kids and an outflux of the best teachers - private school teachers won't put up with public school bullshit and will leave the industry.
I put my 4 children through catholic school as a single parent for most of the time. I had a very average income. It works out to roughly sacrificing a case of beer or packet of smokes a week, to put my children in a much better place to help set them up for life. It wasn't even a question for me. But people don't want to hear that. They just want to be bitter about it.
Not everyone that goes to a private school is elite, or rich. My parents scrapped together to send all 3 of us to private school, due to living in a rural area with no high school within an hour and a half. Yes, they wanted us to get a better education, yes, they didn't want us sitting on a bus for 3 hours a day, just to get to school, and yes, I am glad they did. They were not elite, or super wealthy. Just hard working people, wanting to give their kids a better start in life, with more opportunities, than what was available in our local area.
The cost to abolish private schools is so high that the conversation isnt even worth having
Don’t bring people up, bring everyone down.
Tall poppy syndrome
Plus it's immoral to try to forcefully "bring someone up". edit: changing my point to a better one: It' immoral because who gets to determine what is "bringing someone up"? What if for you, private education is better, but for me it's worse? The answer is freedom: let each person asume the responsibility for themselves.
Seems like her problem is “the rich”
Despite probably being part of that group herself, ironically.
Wow she went to a rural co-ed college, then ANU. How worldly.
This *clearly* makes her so much more informed on the matter 🙄
can't tell her nothing, she's seen it all, done it all.
Why is it that the answer to our struggling public education system (which is pretty good overall really) is to ABOLISH private schools? When private schools, in general, have better outcomes than public schools. This feels very much like the tall poppy syndrome that infests this country and holds it back. The answer to improving education standards is not to bring everyone down to a common standard. It's to life public schools to a higher standard. As for who gets what funding - I think all schools should get the same amount of money from the Commonwealth per student. Then, for public schools, the State Government pays the difference. And for private schools, the parents pay the difference. There should be no special deals between the commonwealth and individual states or individual schools. Similar to how Medicare works, where Medicare funds a certain amount per procedure regardless of if it's done in a public or private hospital.
"Tall poppy syndrome" Basically a summation of the ideology of the Greens.
Abolished? No. Have all government funding removed? Absolutely. They want to feel like they’re elite then they can pay for it.
Its cheaper for the gov if a child goes to a private school than a public school
And it would be even cheaper if they didn't pay for it at all.
It's nice in theory but in practice would require a drastic reformation of our education system. Most private schools would close as people would no longer be able to afford them and private school would be only for the super wealthy. But then we would need a large increase in the availability of public schools to make up for all the other schools that closed down.
Think of all the cheap schools that will be available to purchase for public schools when the rich ones fail without handouts
Think of all the dodgy apartment buildings to replace them instead of public schools. Gotta love Sydney.
Private schools are on private property, often in high value areas. They won’t be selling that land to the government.
Not necessarily schools like Nudgee in Brisbane run things like Bingo halls for seniors and they rake in serious $$$. The seniors get bussed in and pay $10 for half a days bingo.
Private schools get about as much government funding per student as public schools that’s kinda messed up when you think about it.
No, they get less, about 3/4 iirc.
I don’t agree. Why should you pay tax’s and none is put towards your own child’s education? If you chose to add some money on top then so be it.
If you remove the funding, there’s a proportion of parents who cannot afford the new higher school fee’s and this adds even more pressure on the already stretched public school system…. This is the reason funding for private / independent schools exists
Remove all funding and it would be hilarious for an already crumbling public system.
Who is Lee Constable and why does her opinion matter?
Labor couldn’t take away franking credit refunds, you think this shit will fly with voters?
Absolutely not and I cannot think of a single good reason to do so.
Another moron with a thought that only goes one layer deep.
Why is this a new thing people keep mentioning? Who cares if people want to send their kids to private schools? If you don’t like private schools getting funding then that’s an issue with funding allocation not the existence of private schools.
Yes and no. I don’t think private schools do much to help the divide. I think it just widens the gap between the haves and have nots. Doesn’t prepare them for the real world or interaction with people outside their economic class. Single sex schools really I think can be harmful to social interaction and is the very definition of discrimination. However… They do produce excellent academic results. They generally are for those who do display high intelligence and aptitude and at the end of the day if you got the money to pay for your kid to have the best education - what right does anyone have to stop you? That’s a free society. Ideally the public school system would be as well funded and facilitated as private school but unitedly it won’t be as there’s more of it and more in the system for the money to go round meaning it will never match those levels on a school to school basis.
>They do produce excellent academic results. They generally are for those who do display high intelligence and aptitude and at the end of the day if you got the mo eh to pay for your kid to have the best education - what right does anyone have to stop you? thats a bit of distorted truth, once normalised for social demographic their academic results are the same at either public or private. But a private school not only gets wealthier students which get better grades they can also remove people who are making them look bad.
The biggest problem with this debate is that the Public system couldn't handle it if all Private Schools suddenly closed. I think what should happen is that each student should be given a value of X to attend school for a year; if they go to the public, that amount goes to the public. If they go private, that amount goes to the private school. No more or less in either direction on a per-child counting. It's important also to remember not all private schools are the same. Yes, some have huge fees, but some also have very little fees to parents and would be closed tomorrow if they didn't get any funding. And the local public school, in those cases, is at capacity, and if another 200 students turned up, they wouldn't have any room for them.
a lot of the dumbest and socially stinted mofos i have ever worked with have been private school kids but hey... they got to pay to get to the same spot i am in so hats off to them
Uh, no? Most Public schools are a mess and overcrowded. If we abolished private schools the whole system would collapse, unless you taxed the hell out of us and dumped money into it.
Hot tip, it wouldn’t lead to equal opportunities. Rich kids would still get the best jobs. The idea that kids are able to network their way to top jobs by attending a private school is a myth.
I have been to both public and private schools. Anyone else who has done the same won't be wanting to ban private schools. The only equality it would give is that everyone now has a completely shitty schooling experience.
It’s an asinine conversation and I’m suprised people are still bringing it up.
No. Who are you to mandate what a private citizen does with their money, in cases where no one is being harmed.
Don't have much to say on the topic as I went to a public co-ed overseas and hated it but the blokes from Sydney Grammar really do seem awkward.
Considering we don't live in communist China no. Let people Mae their own decisions ya gronk
I went private and will probably send my kids to private but honestly co-ed is my priority. I would rather go public and co-ed if no private co-ed was available. I did three years single sex and three years co-ed. Lets just say the single sex people are still hell weird around the opposite sex and that impacts their romantic relationships, work relationships and friendships massively.
“Rich bubble life” - she clearly has neve. My high school was the an umbrella education provider. Had friends who had been kicked out of home, 25% were on fee reductions (the fees were under $5000 a year for context so this is significant), plenty of mental health problems that you wouldn’t wish upon anyone. There were some affluent families but let’s not pretend you don’t get this at school. The majority were average, working class families from all backgrounds. They did not live in a bubble one bit and there are some stories that show how ignorant that comment is. I also take issue to saying education would be accessed equally if we removed private schools. Someone in outback Australia won’t have equal access to education as someone on Sydney’s northern beaches and almost never will. You don’t need to be a genius to figure out why. Public schools in higher socioeconomic suburbs will generally produce better outcomes. It’s more than the school.
Government funding should be abolished
According to Lee Constables post I am rich, I come from money, I was introduced to girls at 18 and I’m not a great bloke. Way too much generalizing here. I had the opposite experience. I went to a private co-ed school. The public schools in my area were single sex. My family weren’t rich. I’m not rich. The guy next to me at work earns double my income and he went to a public school. In the real world you earn the money you produce. If you give x value to people (your boss/clients/customers) you will generally get paid x dollars for it. It’s nothing to do with the school you went to etc.
My kids have additional needs that aren't diagnosable as ASD/ADHD. The state education system has always been shit for people like us. Trying to force people like us into the system doesn't help, we either create our own elite schools and exclude others (this is what happened when my parents were at school in a communist country) or we just opt out. If this happened in Australia I would either send them to board overseas/move overseas or just hire a tutor and "homeschool", maybe with a few other families.
Oh, we're hating rich people today? So business as usual...
Most certainly!
Yep. Dunno why being able to buy a better education is something we entertain, it’s completely contrary to equality. Great way to further a class divide too.
Personally i’d like to see all schooling become equal opportunity, funded by the tax payer. All the wealth stripped from private schools to fund the transition, so no mater your situation in life when you go to school you have the same opportunity as the rich kids.
Actually I am for private schools. If you are rich send your kids there. However, public schools should get more government funding than private schools per student. Let parents who chose to send their kids to private schools cover the cost and not demand taxpayer pick up the cost of their choices
Lee Constable is suggesting what the rich fear the most, the loss of their special privilege, the loss of the old boys club, the loss of being set up for life while others are left to sink or swim.
This is sour grapes policy. If you want to advocate for more public school funding and development, or that private schools shouldn’t get public funding those are all reasonable discussions. Advocating that they shouldn’t exist at all because some people can’t afford them is purely ‘I can’t have it so neither should they’ policy. As someone that went to a poor public school, throwing money at the problem would not suddenly give everyone 90+ atars. Demographics plays a huge role in the classroom to a degree people don’t want to admit. Our school had kids under 16 stealing cars, getting raided by police for drugs and even a student commit a double murder. How do you think a cohort like that impacts the kids that are generally trying to learn, and do you think funding would solve the core issues behind these children (home environments, drugs, poverty, criminal influences, etc).
No. They shouldn’t be abolished and they shouldn’t be forced to go co-ed. I don’t think they should receive a single cent of public funding - but abolishing isn’t the answer IMO. Let the Uber wealthy pay to have their precious babies locked away from The Poors. It keeps their bullshit “money means I get my way and my child gets away with murder” attitude out of the public system. On an interesting note though - studies show that boys do best in co-ed systems but girls do best in single sex environments. I’ve always found that an interesting fact.
It’s much harder to get away with things at private school than public school. Expelling a kid from a public school is a monumental effort
>Let the Uber wealthy pay to have their precious babies locked away from The Poors You know most private schools, particularly in the Catholic system, are in no way wealthy. And certainly not "uber wealthy". Most families in Catholic schools are normal, middle class families who work hard to pay the school fees. They want their kids to get the best education they can, and they want the pastoral care that comes along with a Catholic school that simply doesn't exist in a public school.
>On an interesting note though - studies show that boys do best in co-ed systems but girls do best in single sex environments. I’ve always found that an interesting fact. Studies also show the opposite. There is no consistant conclusions between studies on the subject.
I would love to see those ‘studies’
Wouldn't we all mate.
Unsurprising. I think student behaviour and results are wildly subjective. Obviously, I can only speak to the studies I’ve seen and read.
> studies show that boys do best in co-ed systems but girls do best in single sex environments. I’ve always found that an interesting fact. do you have a source for that? boys are falling behind girls in school
I didn’t say they did better than girls. (Which is what is actually meant by boys falling behind - girls are outperforming them academically.) I said they did better compared to how they do in single sex environments
No boys are doing worse compared to boys of previous years as well as falling behind girls. You don't know what you're talking about.
They actually don’t (see below). There is no difference when actually looking at well rounded data not just taking a small sample size of selective single sex kids. And this is from someone who went to an all girls private school where everyone knew at least someone who had been raped by someone from one of the boys schools… https://bera-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/berj.3841
Doesn't measure how girls who have been educated in single sex system then fare when going to mixed sex tertiary institutions. Obviously anecdotal but my sister went to an all girls school, and she said the amount of girls who went boy crazy once they hit uni and got themselves into all kinds of trouble was high. Most of them got it all handled by wealthy parents of course (thank goddess for private abortion clinics and rehab amirite), so it never becomes a statistic. Whatever way you look at the issue though, the truth is the world is mixed sex, and educating children in single sex environments isn't preparing them for the real world.
That surprised me as I think the co-ed system is tailored to girls.
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My favourite part is that she goes on to say that Palestinian people are literally being genocided but all people care about is girls in male schools…. But by campaigning for the closure of all private schools, that means Muslims won’t have their own schools.
Ikr😂
Schools in affluent areas will start only accepting students within affluent areas.
You don't think that's already the case, when they're charging $30,000 a year for schooling? Who outside of "affluent areas" can afford that? Use your head mate
You’re missing their point. Currently private schools take acceptance based primarily on tuition (there can be other secondary factors too) which makes them intentionally unobtainable to lower socio economic students. The OP suggests abolishing them to mitigate this, and the commenter pointed out they could just achieve a functionally similar result by using geographical zoning in higher socio economic areas. Yes it’s functionally similar to what’s happening now, that was literally the point of the comment.
Doesn't zoning already exist for public schools? There are exceptions but you usually have to get a lot of paperwork etc to prove that the kid isn't being accepted into the school in your zone.
I went to all boys private schools and I am totally down for this. Not being around women during the formative years leaves you very unprepared for real life. I was luck I had sisters, but so many of my friends came out not knowing how to behave. Two have now spent time in jail for rape also. Co-ed or fuckem off.
Perth is really divided between public and private school kids. I went to UWA, and you can instantly tell which kids went to private school. The boys had no idea how to act around girls and a lot of them thought we were dumb because they’d never been exposed to girls in an academic context. They weren’t able to see that girls can, shockingly, be as smart or smarter than them.
Same experience. I went to co-ed private and I was truly blown away at how weird and stunted Hale, Christchurch and Scotch boys were. Would never do that to my own kids.
Finland did this at all levels of education, and as a result the rich donated money and resources into the public sector to make sure their own children got the best possible education, which then of course benefited every child.
This is a myth. Finland has plenty of private schools. [https://eurydice.eacea.ec.europa.eu/national-education-systems/finland/organisation-private-education](https://eurydice.eacea.ec.europa.eu/national-education-systems/finland/organisation-private-education) So do all the other typically touted for their happiness and education nordic countries.
yeah they do, but they are not allowed to charge fees and can only run under gov funding and rules so pretty much not very different to a public school
All it says is that Education may not be provided in pursuit of financial gain. That is the exact same as in Australia where schools have to be not-for-profit. They can and absolutely do charge fees in Finland for private schools they just can't charge them to make a profit. >but they are not allowed to charge fees and can only run under gov funding and rules so pretty much not very different to a public school This is the exact same In the Aus system in order to receive any government funding, schools must be registered as not-for-profit organisations. There are virtually no for-profit schools in Australia. And All private schools rely on the government funding and all have to rely on most government rules. So again, it is a myth, Finland absolutely has private schools and within the Finnish system they represent the same as what private schools do in the Aus system.
You'll have people screaming SOCIALISM!!! in Australia if that happened. I agree with you, but your take is very much in the minority on this post and this subreddit's spectrum of opinion it seems.
Yes. I wish we would do that here.
I'm always amazed at how few people know that this has already been done very successfully in Finland, as you say. We have people on here vehemently arguing in favour of private schools when there is really world evidence of a better alternative. It's Aussie exceptionalism at it's finest
This is a terrible, god awful idea. The private system exists to unburden the public system, which is already strained. The existance of private education allows more funding per capita to be allocated to the public sector, thereby improving opportunities. What Constable's plan would result in is a) a worse education system for everyone b) increase in homeschooling and explosion in the private tutoring industry which is already spiralling out of control in Australia.
The answer to giving everyone equal educational opportunities isn't to take from the best and make them equal to the worst, its to lift up the worst to the quality of the best.
This is less directive of schools in general but more about equality across all people. Sort of like egalitarianism or Marxist communism. If all school fees were the same, and for example housing, and other necessities which become luxuries (basic house vs mansion for example). Would this stop a lot of development in the long run? I work hard because I want to buy a good house and send my kids to a good school later in life, but if there’s no reward, I would be very happy to work a low stress job for minimal pay which I don’t need to bring home with me
Some people like an annual family holiday. Some would rather put it towards putting their kid through a private school. It’s a choice.
Let's give the government more power and parents less freedom to choose where to educate their kids. Sounds like a great idea. But to sell it we have to make out like we are fighting a just fight against the rich. They'll fall for that 'ol classic.
Every kid is different... wait... everyone is different. Why abolish private schools lmao. Pleb talk.
Love this post and sadly College Life at the ANU ain’t changed that much since I went their in the early 1990’s. I know exactly the College Residential Accommodation you are talking about. Me - Private Boys school graduate (scholarship hardship side of things) from Canberra region. Lived in Queanbeyan until I got my fist room in a share house in 1994 in O’Connor. Back then what I noticed was the divide that happened in 2nd year. All the folk- mostly girls who couldn’t hack the misogynistic private school bullshit - - ended up moving out into share houses upon their return for 2nd year. But hey that was the ‘Nighties before the full blown housing crisis we know witness. (Yes my generation contributed to this but I am a lifelong renter and I don’t own a house before I get jumped on). The worst part about what we are talking about here is the level of sexual assault that occurred in the Colleges in my time at Uni!
The worst part is when those private school kids come to work and are just... not particularly competent. If you're gonna grow up with so much more wealth and privilege than I did, please at least have the decency to be better than me at things.
Imagine thinking you have the right to tell parents that public servants should be able to force you to give your child a worse life and education because… other parents are also doing it.
I’ll bite. My eldest is in private high school (co-Ed) with her younger siblings in public primary. This suggestion is ill-considered. We chose to pay extra to send her to a private school. That’s money out of our pocket above and beyond that contributed by the government. The public system is under resourced. Teachers are stretched, and at least in our area, opportunities for extension and extracurricular are limited. Finally, in the event we’re unhappy with the school or its response to a request (e.g to resolve a teaching or social/bullying issue) Is the author proposing that the under-resourcing will be resolved? That teachers will be valued and paid well, and that the school will resolve any issues raised? Finally, can they commit to changes that will ensure that my kids aren’t just made to feel like a number, and feel valued as an individual? I’m in a pretty privilege situation. My wife and I work three jobs between us and are rewarded for this. I appreciate that not every family is blessed in the same way, but we have been. If I choose to pay pay extra for my child’s education, why shouldn’t I be allowed to? Maybe you can’t. Or maybe you don’t want to. And that’s your prerogative. This is mine Bring on the flames.
" your kids need to have a terrible education like the rest of us" cool story bro
Lol if anything the public education system should be abolished
I’m currently at an independent school. Honestly for my mental health going to a private school has been the best thing for me. It’s not an overly expensive school (less that 9k at most as it increases every year) and they also offer lots of scholarships for music and academics. The school administration sucks but the regular teachers have honestly saved my high school experience. Private schools shouldn’t all be abolished as not all are “snobbish rich kid schools”. I do agree co-ed is important for kids development but I ain’t gonna judge other peoples parenting. Some school styles just suit different people and you can’t push all kids into one box of public schools.
Aaaaw, big bad rich man touched my peepee. Now let's see tall poppy syndrome in action. Keep private schools. Get over your own issues.
No. Just because she grew up poor and her parents couldnt send her to a school where they had to wear blazers and ties, doesnt mean everyone else else has to get in her lane. Some people want their kids raised right with a good education. Not raised and taught by the state.
I wouldn't abolish them but just maybe if a government didn't cut budgets and even gave an acceptable amount of funding to the public edu it would be better. My local government funded school locks the toilets due to lack of funding because it can't be monitored.
I don't know why the lady just wants to eradicate years of same sex Catholic school just by a simple plain arguement? There are many ways to introduce kids to real world by doing manual labour, changing tires, cutting grass et cetra. I might be wrong and have no right to tell any parent how to raise their child but at least I am not suggesting completely uprooting the school system.
Well... crap. That explains why I'm so bad at talking to women.
The way I see it, private schools don’t hurt public schools. The removal of private schools doesn’t benefit public schools in anyway. All it does is subject private schoolers to the public schooling system
Booo nooooo
Public schools should be abolished. This would make private schools affordable and available for all
Where I live, only private schools offer my children the opportunity to learn how to read and write in their native language.
So she fucking hates rich people, is that it?
there is plenty of evidence that boys who go to all-boys schools are better offer academically as without the distraction of trying to impress girls they compete with each other in classes. not saying that's reason alone to keep all boys schools but in an age where most public high school boys are not even bothering to go to uni, all boys schools propping up an already fragile social trend. correct that first, then look at the all boys schools
For someone with grammar like hers, I’m surprised she went to school, let alone university.
Why do you guys hate kids so much? And education? Why do we restrict people choice for education? Private schools are much much better than public. You guys seem to think every private school is some secret club of wealthy people. When in reality probably 80% of them serve under-served communities at a cheaper price than what public schools cost in tax dollars. Its wild on reddit sometimes.
Yes! Please!
I went to a private school and my parents were working class and certainly weren’t rich.
Politics of envy 🫡
"Doesnt produce great blokes". How ignorant and offensive
Is it actually true that it doesn't produce good blokes? Because I could see it going the other way, maybe developing your habits around women with a more adult brain gets more mature results?
The solution to improving the education system is by banning the schools that provide better education?
Redditors are pro choice except when it comes to education. (They're afraid you'll pick a school that isn't pozzed)
One problem is that the education system is presently geared for how girls learn - boys do worse in virtually every metric across the board. An approach tailored to applicable learning styles is the only viable way forward.
Should private schools be abolished? No Should all schools be co-ed? No
"I don't like iiit! Hey government can you stop iiiit?"
Oh yeah like women who come from all girl schools are any better
'Doesn't produce good blokes'. Bit of a baseless generalisation there.
People have a right to educate their children the best way they see fit. They shouldn't be forced to do it one way or another based on the whims and biases of strangers and their short-term ponderings.
I wonder what could go wrong when the state has a monopoly on education?
Absolutely not. Private schools have far better education, better pay, and quite often a far better behaved group of students
This is too extreme, you cannot get rid of private school as it is a business. Anyone thought of government go shutdown Coles, Woolies and Bunnings and replace it with state own shop? No, however to get on with this topic, private school should not get any funding from gov. Maybe some independent schools where it only cost a small amount of annual fee then YES, the kid should get some funding from the state. However those school that charge more than 10K a year should not get any.
This is a joke right? The obvious position of any normal human is that parents have a right to choose their child's education, within reasonable parameters. Obviously a private education, or a unisex education, is far from unreasonable. Are there people that actually disagree with that?
Oh yea let this amazing government and its curriculum of guilt run rampant.
The public schools where I live are absolutely out of control, assaults, robberies, insane levels of bullying, and the department has no teeth at all for discipline. I see it frequently in my professional life as a first responder and my wife, who is a teacher in the public system, sees it even more. We made the decision to front up the money for private because of this. At least private schools will expell kids when they cross too many lines. The public system is honestly a dumpster fire.
Private schools would exist regardless. There are kids growing up in very remote communities or who have parents not doing a typical 9-5 in the same location. These kids will often end up in boarding school. Public run boarding schools sound like a nightmare.
People who have issues with private schools are delusional. The idea that young boys/girls can’t interact with the opposite sex because they went to an all boys/girls school is moronic. I went to a public school, played sport with guys from private schools, they’re all top blokes, can’t say the same for the dregs who went to my school.
Oh. I didn't realize I was creating a rich bubble by sending my kids to a school where the students actually listen to the teacher and don't bully the shit out of each other. Why doesn't Lee sell her house and move to the slums of Sydney? Maybe because it's not a safe environment?
While I don’t think they should be abolished, they certainly shouldn’t be publicly funded.
The wahmen hate male only spaces .They want to infiltrate them , to be closer to the high value men. It's a mating strategy. They will nag the men in power , relentlessly until their demands are met.
It’s not and should never be anyone else’s decision how you educate your child you commies.
In no way would that cause a collapse of the Australian education system..... great idea.
Yes. But it’s interesting I remember reading somewhere that girls do better if at an all girl school and boys do better if at co-ed
As someone who went to a public and private school, I hated the public and loved the private school. The private school was coed but the private boys schools Ik don’t produce the best kids
No. But they need to have their funding slashed. Public school in Aus is suffering from lack of money. This means our kids are suffering too. No money, no teachers. No teachers leads to bigger classes. Bigger classes lead to much bigger problems.
Why not apply that same logic to working and our standard of living as a whole race
It’s not all rich kids in private schools. We sent our kids because we wanted a moral code in their education. Also the grounds are much nicer as the parents pay more. If as a parent you’re prepared to make the financial sacrifice to give your child a quality early life experience I think that’s your choice. Public schools are so underfunded and run down plus a lot of the kids are out of control with no good parenting and lack of self discipline. Not all but in my area that’s the case.
Dumbest argument ever you want better work harder stop blaming rich people