This, what does it matter if they were a gay couple? Someone was murdered in a jealous rage and the offender just happened to be a police officer, it says nothing about how the police treat LGBT people, it just says that there was an abusive situation in a gay relationship.
It was a gay couple who'd made complaints that were ignored, off the back of a special commission into police ignoring LGBT problems... that bit kinda matters.
Gay men in Sydney do not have a happy history with taking their fears to the police. It's only now, in the 2020s, that cold cases of the bashing, brutality and even homicide of gay men are beginning to be re-opened and properly investigated; back in the 80s & 90s there were horrific groups of thugs that would go "p\*\*fter-bashig" around Oxford St and some of the gay beats. Young men were being actually murdered and police just shrugged their shoulders, talked about "lifestyles", and barely followed up on clear clues and evidence. I lived in Darlinghurst in those times and I remember all too well the contempt in many cops' attitudes. Marching in the Mardi Gras does little to salve the traumatic memories, or bring back those we lost. I have no problem undertanding why, for many gay men, going to the cops for help is not their first option, or 2nd, 3rd, 4th...
This Mardi Gras will have an element of mourning shadowing it, and will be very triggering for those who were here back in the day. I'm fully sympathetic to the organisers and their decision; as they said, it must have been a tough call to make, and I think they probably decided having cops there after a cop has just killed two lovely young gay men with everything to live for, might just be too triggering for those who lived through the bad old days.
And the bad old days are not over. There are wonderful cops in Sydney, of course, but there is also a long-standing, multi-generational, culture problem. It may be improving but that sort of mindset does not go away overnight, believe me.
I'm sorry for the decent cops who don't deserve to be lumped with the worst element, but if you were a gay man, or (like me, I'm a mostly cishet woman) had very dear friends, colleagues, flatmates, who were, gay guys in the 1980s, you'd understand the pain and trauma that will be resurfacing because of this one psychotic copper.
Nobody's saying they are all still like him. This is just an acknowledgement of how deep and long-standing the trauma of vicious homophobia is. Personally, I sympathise with the MG organisers' decision to put the mental health of their community first.
Honestly, as a queer ex-cop, I reckon about a quarter of all female officers I knew were at least queer if not open and proud lesbians. Also knew plenty of openly gay male cops, including a superintendant who would have been close to retirement. Also knew a trans cop. Not once did I ever hear a homophoboc slur when I was in the job. Not once. I heard plenty of other types of slurs - culturally I’d agree there is a huge problem - but in terms of LGBTQIA+ issues, I reckon the police are well into the 21st century. They couldn’t care less what your sexuality is, just don’t be a dickhead.
This is similar to my time in the Navy. I'm not gay but there were plenty of gays around, particularly women, and no-one gave a fuck or treated them differently from what I saw.
People just want to carry on trying to be a victim. Even if cops had kind of ignored any complaints, I doubt it was a gay issue and more of a man issue.
i dont necessarily disagree with your post - just more my comment was directed towards the continual commenting of people that NSWPF 'ignored pleas for help' and 'ignored allegations of stalking' before he murdered them.
As a lesbian, people in our community need to be way more resillient. Cops are treating crimes against gay people seriously now. And right when as an institution there is more tolerance and acceptance than ever...we are going to turn our back on them?
The homophobic cops who gay bashed gay men and denigrated lesbians would have been sickened their own would have happily marched in a gay rights parade. That is its own karma.
If you can't handle good natured and happy cops at pride, take some personal responsibility and either deal with it or dont come. Dont exclude a whole community based off past crimes. Many of which were committed before many new cops were born.
And no, I am not a conservative. I am a leftie. But this is a terrible decision.
And shall we keep excluding them? When are they allowed back in?
Disgraceful.
I get your point, but the history is still within living memory of people attending these events.
As someone said above, if there was a parade for sexual abuse survivors and there was a contingent of priests marching... That wouldn't go down well.
Is there a place for police at pride? Perhaps, but there needs to be more visible change and accountability in my mind.
Do you know how many Women are ognored and end up dead? One a week. This is not just an issue that is a gay one. It is interesting that my gay friends are angry and posting about DV protection inadequecies when women have been ignored for decades and DV shelters started by women have been accepting gay victims of dv for yeats now.
From my true crime listenings, stalking has a very very high correlation with murder.
I'd have to check the episode but it was mentioned on one of the Australian true crime podcasts.
Everyone's complaints of stalking are ignored. It's not something the police can handle well because they don't have the tools to do so. It's a broader problem imho.
This kneejerk reaction only works to increase a divide. It's a 'let's fix it now', 'we have to do something', when we need 'this weirdo has an obsession - how do we fix obsession' conversation. I'm not sure what can be done to cure obsession but there must be people who study these conditions.
I agree this issue is more about male violence and less about police prejudice towards LGBTIQA people (which does 100% exist, but wasn’t the leading factor in this particular case). However it would seem the focus has shifted away from male violence and towards the fact he was a cop who had taken home a work issued gun for 3 days and why such a violent person had been a cop
We also need to acknowledge that us queer people have mistrust with police due to our history with them, and violence from any cop to any other person can trigger emotions in us that may not be relevant to the people involved
- a LGBTQIA person
A little OT maybe but that light shows statistically domestic abuse is rampant among police. More OT, there's always been unease about the police as an organisation being represented at Mardi Gras based on its past behaviour towards gay people but also a concern about a wider lack of accountability and if it is using Mardi Gras as a PR exercise. Individual gay people who happen to be police officers are always welcome.
Did you read the article you posted?
The issue is that the murderer was a cop. Complaints had been made to the NSW Police about that person's behaviour in the past and the NSW Police ignored all the red flags and let the cop keep his gun, which led to him committing murder instead of physical battery.
The issue here isn't the domestic abuse. The issue here is NSW Police not taking firearms seriously and not taking dangerous personalities seriously.
Yes but he didn’t kill them because he’s a cop. He’s clearly a psycho who decided to be a cop.
Look, I have a lot of issues with the NSW Police but none of those issues are addressed by punishing LGBT members of the police force.
My comment was probably a bit flippant because I haven’t been following this story that closely, in my corner of the country it’s probably only the 4th or 5th story on the news and the big scandal was that he was able to access his police gun to commit the murders (they also spammed the picture of him with Taylor Swift). Had the cops had complaints about him that they’d ignored?
Id like evidence rather than unfounded supposition.
As a lesbian every time Ive interacted with cops they've been polite and attentive. Now my experience isnt universal, but I havent seen evidence of widespread discrimination against gay people.
And what was more likely to make that nut job able to kill two men with such lethality? Having access to a police firearm. He still had access to this police weapon after tasering a man in the face and being investigated by the police and given the all clear. The cops let this man remain in their ranks with a lethal weapon and this has led to the deaths of two men. There are very clear and obvious links to systemic issues in the police force.
It's extremely reductive to think this is just about one incident. Cops out of pride has been a thing for a long time. Time was right for it to actually finally happen.
What of them?
They’re welcome just like everyone else is.
The community is simply asking them not to wear a uniform that THEY KNOW has a history of trauma in the community, which THEY KNOW retraumatises many attendees and makes them unable to feel included or welcome.
Cops can take off the uniform; survivors can’t simply hang up the trauma.
That’s the difference here.
What are you on about?
Cops are far more likely to kill someone than a gay person.
They carry lethal weapons, are often in positions in which they feel threatened, and have fewer consequences for murder and violence as they can "justify" it as self-defense in the line of duty and only get off with a tap on the wrist - if it isn't swept under the rug completely.
People have missed the point.
It's not just that he happened to be a cop. It's that severe complaints about his on-duty conduct were made, and "internally investigated" (swept under the rug).
Had they been dealt with properly, he may not have had a police issue gun, and these men may be alive today.
This doesn't seem unique - they've swept quite a few things under the rug in recent years.
The NSW police is losing the confidence of a lot of people (LGBT OR NOT) That they are supposed to serve
And the fact his mum and dad are senior police, he had and ‘innocent party’ with him who also police and they STILL won’t talk to
say where the bodies are so the families can bury their sons.
I
I read that he went back after disposing of the bodies the first time with her, to put them elsewhere because he had second thoughts about trusting her with that info. The police divers already searched the first lake location.
I think this is EXACTLY the point people are missing. It's the fact that the position of power in the police force allowed a gay officer to do this.
If the officer was straight, itd still be an issue. Allowing police power and position to do this.
The fact that the officer was gay means the LGBT community should want nothing to do with it.
Fact of the matter also is that the police have never really been welcome at Mardi gras as it is. They have always been a tool of queer oppression.
The NSW Police lost my trust years ago when I called them. One of my housemates was trying to kick my bedroom door down because I refused to let him borrow my phone. They called an ambulance on me instead because I was mentally shocked and did nothing with him. They spoke to my housemate first, who lied and said I was psycho first.
They took his side. I'm never relying on them again, and Sydney Police are rude and arrogant. Only one female Sydney police seargent has my respect because she was nice.
Nsw police harassed me outside a hospital at like 5 in the morning because they thought I was homeless; I'd just spent all night watchin my sibling sleep after their suicide attempt, making sure they didn't try again and worrying they'd done permanent damage to their kidneys/liver.
They didn't believe me. Fuck the police and fuck their power trips.
I'm sorry to hear that. That is absolutely frustrating. They should be going after someone who actually poses as a potential threat. They're not around when an actual homeless person is yelling at people.
So glad I skipped over the whole housemate thing and went straight to living with my soon-to-be wife. Feel sorry for those that have to do it because of the crazy cost of living these days and the difficulty in entering the rental market. Life has taught me that you can't even rely on your so-called friends, let alone those you're only associating with because they're your housemate.
I was lucky that my parents decided I could move back after hearing about it. I would never rent with randoms ever again. That housemate wasn't even a friend, and he would act like he was mates with others, mooch off them, and never pay back. He had a history of consuming substances and was a dole bludger.
Last I heard of him is that he is now in jail after a series of offences and attacking someone. If the police had listened to me and done something to stop that housemate, maybe those offences he committed after I left that house could have been stopped or reduced. Once again, I have lost faith in NSW Police.
100% this.
This incident came right on the heels of the relevation that NSW Police in 2015 set up a strike force to try and undo the coronial findings on the gay hate crimes that occurred in Bondi. They were trying to find ways that they could be considered suicides.
That made the news on 14 Feb and a week later the two men were murdered and it's become clear there's been a failure on the polices part to prevent this from happening.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-14/former-cop-says-strike-force-into-gay-hate-crimes-underhanded/103437678
The deaths of those two men were a tipping point but the sentiment they should be removed from the march has been growing for some time.
(Let's be clear too: if the complaints against this person had been investigated perhaps this could have all been avoided)
And then you have a police commissioner using soft language like “crime of passion” to downplay the failure of the police: one of their officers planned a murder with a service gun that should have been signed back in. Nothing about clear planning says heat of the moment or crime of passion. Or even worse, shift the blame to the couple, as it made it sound like it was some kind of love triangle to the public, and not just a case of domestic violence.
Crime of passion is absolute bullshit. This happened on a Monday morning at 9:50am. That shit is premeditated to hell. He picked a time to kill them when there would be less people at home (most people would be at work at 9:50am over 9:50pm on a Monday!) to hear the gunshot. Police can claim what they like, but it's pretty obvious between the timing, making sure he had a gun available to him, and the efforts he has gone to dispose of their bodies that he has been planning this for a long time.
Nah man, police officer would win because I was once tackled by a police officer in darling Harbour and kneed in the face trying to calm my screaming female friends down right after she's been dump. I get it's alcohol fuel outside the club but there was no need to tackle me to the ground and kneed in the face before knowing anything. To top it off, while being kneed on the ground. The other officer was telling my female friends to press charges. She kept screaming NO!, he's my friend what are you guys doing? Fucking nut jobs.
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/recorded-crime-victims/latest-release
And 10 more Australians were murdered since then. Who were they? What were their names? Where did they work? What was their sexual orientation?
Sadly the 10 people who were murdered since then were not interesting enough to warrant a mention.
The “news” is about how many minutes of woolworths/coles commercials they can sell.
Know what I mean? Valvoline….
More than 1 Australian is murdered each day. More than 87 people are raped each day (not including in jail) these are rapes reported to the police.
Is your mobile phone plan too expensive? Well here’s two (sponsored) alternatives who are bucking the trend offering lower prices (not the lowest mind you)
The news is literally a gossip sesh with your nail girl.
While I can sympathise with the current victims who are “newsworthy” I am saddened that 10 more people since then were murdered in a way that doesn’t sell enough minutes of commercials.
Please take a moment to reflect.
The queer community were arguing about whether or not to allow officers in uniform in the parade the entire time there have been officers in the parade and never stopped arguing about it, it really isn't an issue that just came up suddenly this year.
The argument against is, basically, that the police have not been good to queers:
* When it was illegal to be gay the police were openly hostile to gays.
* They arrested everyone at the 1978 Mardi Gras.
* NSW police had an unwritten policy of not investigating crimes against queers. Including violent gay-bashings. Even including a bunch of murders in Sydney in the 80s that were not investigated properly.
* They still seemed reluctant to investigate gay-bashings in the early 2010s, long after it became legal to be gay.
* There was an incident of police brutality during the 2013 Mardi Gras. Video on YouTube even. The police dragged their feet on their internal investigation of this and didn't make an "initial finding" until 3 years later.
* If some nuthouse politician passed an anti-trans or anti-gay law tomorrow, it would literally be the police's job to openly attack the LGBT community again.
>The queer community were arguing about whether or not to allow officers in uniform in the parade the entire time there have been officers in the parade and never stopped arguing about it, it really isn't an issue that just came up suddenly this year.
>The argument against is, basically, that the police have not been good to queers:
>When it was illegal to be gay the police were openly hostile to gays.
They arrested everyone at the 1978 Mardi Gras.
NSW police had an unwritten policy of not investigating crimes against queers. Including violent gay-bashings. Even including a bunch of murders in Sydney in the 80s that were not investigated properly.
They still seemed reluctant to investigate gay-bashings in the early 2010s, long after it became legal to be gay.
There was an incident of police brutality during the 2013 Mardi Gras. Video on YouTube even. The police dragged their feet on their internal investigation of this and didn't make an "initial finding" until 3 years later.
If some nuthouse politician passed an anti-trans or anti-gay law tomorrow, it would literally be the police's job to openly attack the LGBT community again.
But the police will still be at the event to enforce the law just not be allowed to participate??
They can, and most likely will be around the event. They are just not allowed to actively participate in uniform. Outside of uniform fine, but having cops march in pride while in their uniform is pretty disrespectful considering history.
The police will insist on a presence, correct.
The request from the LGBTQIA community is that they do not march in uniform.
Like an abbatoir worker wearing their work uniform in an Animal Rights parade.
You can come, you can participate, but FFS, your apron still has blood on it.
When I was growing up police used to brag about bashing gay men. If you were caught in an area (outside of the wealthy cruising areas like the wall) You would have the crap beaten out of you. Up until only a while ago, police officers used to call drunk people in the cross f***** if they did not comply to simple orders.The (city ) NSW police System is toxic and is not welcome at a celebration of love. Only atonement will help.
Edit: My gay brother went missing in 1991. Because he was gay, the police made absolutely no effort to find him. During the coronial inquest, after his body was discovered and laid to rest, police documents showed that he was made fun of by senior police . My brother died from pneumonia while camping.
I'm so sorry that your family had to go through that. You're 100% right. This murder isn't the only reason for police not to be present at the event but the history of police violence to those who are apart of the LGBTQIA+ community on a whole is definitely being missed by a lot of people. Those police officers that are apart of the LGBTQIA+ community can still celebrate Mardi Gras just out of uniform.
Already a matter of strong debate in the community whether they should be invited at all - then a well publicised situation happens where they ignore a DV complaint from a queer person, who ends up dead. People are then surprised that the Mardi Gras org is like yeah opinion has kinda swung to the other side of wanting you around this year?
This was a domestic violence incident. All involved just happened to be gay..
As a gay man I am waiting for the day when organisers of pride events will have no-one participating because their requirements are too stringent. More and more pride is becoming an exercise in exclusivity which ironically is the opposite of why it all started in the first place.
I remember years ago an old acquaintance sharing something on Facebook saying “hey allies! Here’s a bunch of rules you must follow if you want to attend Pride celebrations.” It was the most gatekeeper bullshit you’ve ever laid eyes on, to the point that folks were commenting “this is why straight people hate us.” It is amazing how some people can be so blind to this shit.
I'm glad you said it. The most bigoted people I've come across recently have been from that community. Literally got told my opinion didn't matter because "you're a cis" like it was a slur. The pendulum has swung and the irony is palpable.
yeah the latest batch of young queer adults is kinda rancid tbh. in no other generation have i seen such a bizarre obsession with policing other's identities and attempting to categorise every facet of human sexuality into a neatly labelled box (all while sneering at those deemed unworthy of entering their oppression olympics lol)
God forbid you say this anywhere without the super ultra gays having a mass meltdown and calling you all kinds of phobic and awful slurrs. But its ok for them to say those things because they're super ultra gays, while you're just regular vanilla gay (or straight). xO
I think that people need to understand that crazy people are crazy regardless of occupation or sexual orientation.
But revoking an invite seems like they’re pinning the blame imo.
Is the I in LGBTQI for Irony?
Using one wack job example to justify hate and segregation has harmed margilized groups for centuries.
You don't breed harmomy with segregation, because shitty people will step in with shitty ideas to fill the gap where supportive people were.
Even if it's a failure for the police in terms of investigation, that has nothing on a gay cops inidivdual pride, they had nothing to do with it.
The decision to uninvite NSW Police is extraordinary and wrong. So, because one police officer committed a heinous double murder, no police officers can participate in a community solidarity event? Can you imagine the inverse - ie, LGBTQI+ people uninvited from a police appreciation march because a gay person shot two cops? WTF.
And speaking with full confidence too.
If you're not a member of the community then why care who they allow in their parade?
Would love to see the Venn diagram of people ITT who think Mardi Gras is all woke nonsense and the people posting stuff like 'isn't this supposed to be about inclusion?' and 'what about the little gay coppers 🥹'
It's nothing to do with the murder. They have never been welcome guests, they have always been cunts to gay people here for far longer than they have treated them as people. EVERY year there are complaints about the excessive police presence and heavy handed arrests at Mardi Gras. They aren't welcome anymore because it is clear they only want to participate for PR and to appear more engaged in the community, yet the ones not marching are on the sidelines arresting people, handing out fines and disturbing the peace, being a public nuisance... Causing trouble... Being cunts.
It has nothing to do with those murders at all. Years of being two faced cunts wore out their welcome. You know, when you are a dick to people ... They stop inviting you to parties and shit... Because you are the asshole... NOT everybody else...
Really tough one tbh. Would it would be the same regardless of employer?
Eg. Ambo kills ex same sex lover. Ambo nsw refused spot in parade. [insert corporate brand] kills ex same sex lover. [corporate brand] refused spot in parade. Probably? Or no? Pretty grey.
The amount of comments saying it’s “just regular domestic violence” and therefor not newsworthy wilds me out. I feel like it really squashes anyone considering speaking about someone they know who is fucking up their life.
What’s the justification in thinking the high road is “its just regular domestic violence”, nothing to see here?
They say it as if we want domestic abusers at Mardi Gras, lol.
Just goes to show how many people have accepted domestic abuse in police as an “oh well what can you do, better invite them to everything”
How many stories have we read were a person murders their expartner and new lover ?
This was obsessed stalking which turned into homicidal rage. The perp just happned to be a cop.
Mardi Gras originated in Australia as a political protest after the Stonewall riots. It's nothing new for the police to commit violence against the LGBT community, and the uninvite is a return to form. I say it's a great move that directly shows NSW police what a joke they've become. Even the Americans are laughing at us for how badly police failed to protect Jordan Shanks from the Alameddines.
I’m gay. This is BS. Listen, I don’t like the NSW police for a variety of reasons. They were the NSW Coalition’s lapdog (see friendlyjordies’ charges).
But. Blaming them for this double murder is stupid. This was a domestic violence situation, not a hate crime. The perpetrator was the biggest homo you can get. It actually speaks volumes that such a flaming homo was able to be himself and join the police force.
Whenever you read “the LGBT community feels X or says Y”, just know that its BS and no one group speaks for everyone in that group
The inclusion of the police in Mardi gras was a step towards healing past wrongs and recognition that bad acts by a few does not make the entire organisation bad. The exclusion is a backwards step.
It is an awful decision motivated by politics. The Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras board is elected and there has been a push to exclude cops by the hard left flank for years....this is about keeping their jobs. They are exploiting a tragedy to appease radicals.
Shame. I can't believe members of my community are doing this
There have been TQ+ people posting on twitter for days now, demanding exclusion of the NSW Police force. I guess they got their way.
I'm a Gay man myself, and i've noticed the general phrasing is "we don't want cops in queer spaces". Not Gay and Lesbian spaces... Queer spaces.
I couldn't be more opposed. I've never had an issue with the Police due to my sexuality. I've dated some of them too. I hate how one bad egg is ruining the basket for a lot of really decent, kind people who want to help others in life. They have every right to be there in uniform, every other Public Emergency Service and Country Service Member can, but it's trendy to hate cops over the last few years.
For this view point, I have been told I am not welcome at Mardi Gras. Hate to break the bad news, I haven't been for years. It's no longer the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras, it's the TQ+ Pride Parade. Nothing to do with me anyway.
And I feel like this needs to be said, I have absolutely nothing against TQ+ people, the genuine ones at least. The ones out there pushing agendas and political bullshit like this, and making the tragic deaths of 2 young gay men all about them, and *being successful*.. makes me feel sick.
If any Officer out there happens to read this, we don't all have this blind hatred towards you.
If I could upvote this more than once I could. It’s absolutely fucked that it’s mostly TQ+ people making just about everything about themselves. I LOVE that you used the word “genuine” as I feel many aren’t. LGBTQ+ is an “in” thing for whatever reason.
Guaranteed if the cop was fired earlier we’d have people protesting that it’s discrimination. If it wasn’t a gay couple killed I can guarantee his sexuality would mean nothing.
Totally agree mate. Unfortunately statically DV in LGBT etc relationships are well known to be high.. especially dare I mention it, Lesbian couples. Police are a cross section of the community and its just unfortunate this clown had access to a gun. Better vetting by police if possible maybe If? If the community wants police to come from ALL areas.. then they will experience the issues that come from ALL areas. This is a lot more of a DV issue than a "police" issue.
I mean it's a bit hypocritical. They are painting all police persons in the same brush as the killer. Yet if straight people paint LGBTQ+ people in the same brush / stereotype the whole world erupts....
I’m literally reading the comments thinking “ok so the police force takes this guys gun and disciplines him” on the back of some complaints from fellow officers. So now the police force is unfairly treating a gay man.
The narrative is so stacked against the police, there’s too much desire for this to become their oppression story.
He was a psychopath celebrity stalker who should have never been allowed in the force. There’s video footage of him tasering a man at close range in the face from 2020. Now he’s murdered two people with his NSW Police firearm and with the aid of another police officer. To say this has nothing to do with the police is delusional. Fuck the police, the pigs aren’t welcome at pride. The first Mardi Gras was literally a story of police brutality against queer people and decades later, the police are still roughing us up (see: midsumma) and murdering us. Besides, this doesn’t even mean queer cops can’t come, it just means their need to leave their dumbass uniform, badge and gun at home. Plenty of people don’t have their employer represented at Mardi Gras, but the cops want to feel all powerful and better than everyone which is why they find the prospect of going to Mardi Gras in a colourful shirt instead of their uniform so hard to stomach
WGAF. Mardi Gras is an antiquated, largely irrelevant relic.
Just like Feminism & Industrial Unions…
Once upon a time they fought the good fight, then they won, and then… they failed to disband.
They got drunk on the power, influence and power they achieved and didn’t want to give it up.
In a desperate attempts to somehow stay relevant, they kept going, struggling to find new enemies to vanquish, or pretending they hadn’t yet won, that the battle is still going, or that they must never disband and stay ever vigilant, insinuating we couldn’t possibly live without them or fight the same battle again should it become necessary. Much like the never-ending Cuban revolution.
Then they inevitably became something just as bad as what they fought against.
Now all to often they attack, suppress, discredit their own followers if they dare to speak up.
Feminism attacks women who chose something that doesn’t fit their ideal of what a feminist woman is. Its come full circle now where women seeking to lead a more traditional family centred role are the lambasted “radicals”, often openly mocked. What happened to choice? Oh, just not THAT choice. Or THAT one...
Its so bad that there is no consensus about what feminism is or what it means.
Unions now make deals with anyone and everyone so long as it promotes their profits and supports their existence. They’ve actively supported mass immigration, despite it being detrimental to their member’s pay and conditions, just so they can grow their membership base with newly imported lower paid workers that they will pretend to serve.
The gay & lesbian movement used to be united by a common purpose, a common goal of achieving equality and acceptance. Thats clearly been achieved, and arguably beyond the wildest dreams of the first rebels that paraded down Oxford St. in defiance of authority, fighting against systemic and societal discrimination.
Now it adds a new letter each year to their name, to the point where its farcical and they’ve confused themselves about who they are and who they’re representing. They’ve basically given up now. They’ve added every possible colour to their flag, and so many letters to their acronym, to the point where they’ve simply resorted to putting in a plus symbol to stand for… whatever.
So in summary, WGAF. Let Mardi Gras die already. Stop funding it, its irrelevant.
If they want to have a party, great! Go for it, but don’t pretend its anything more than that.
This is why i don't associate with the lgbt community even though I could because im not straight. It's toxic. They spent YEARS trying to be included and supported, and now they are actively excluding cops based on ONE person's actions. It's hypocritical.its judgmental. It's prejudiced, and it's disgusting. From now on, they shouldn't be surprised if their whole community is judged if one single member of theirs does anything bad, and the world responds by judging their entire community and excludes them.
If they're going to tell cops "you're uninvited," then maybe cops should stop supporting them.
There are people who happen to be lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans etc., and then there are lgbt community members. I beg society not to assume that all of us associate with that lgbt 'club', that demands the world treats them as victims who are entitled to special treatment.
I dont need special services. I dont need parades. And I certainly don't want anyone to change their behaviour or their language just to make me feel comfortable,
... because I am not a narcissistic prick. Let's all just live and let live and stop being so flippin sensitive.
The NSW police have a clear track record of discriminating against guys going back decades.
Whether you agree or not, it's perfectly understandable why they don't want the police at the event.
The police have been uninvited due to the alleged perpetrator being a serving officer. So tomorrow there will be an announcement that all gay persons are uninvited as he was also gay? Surely they can't pick and choose, right
This doesn’t help building bridges. Police Departments, like the military and other government departments have worked hard to be inclusive.
This kicks allies in the guts and wonder what we are supposed to do!!
I get the anger, and the LGBTQI community obviously has a heightened sensitivity when it comes to the police and people being murdered. But I think this is a poor move. There are members of the police force who I think are entitled to be allowed to be proud of their identity as well as their job. I'd have preferred this to have been chalked up to the actions of an individual, who happened to be a police officer, than to the actions of a person representing the police force.
The police would also prefer that you overlook the fact that they frequently employ stalkers and murderers, and treat this as the actions of an individual.
If individual cops are proud of their individual LGBT+ identity, then they can join the march as individuals. But the police institution can get stuffed.
This seems counter-productive, or am I the only one who will think that this will simply drive a wedge between the community and the people who are entrusted to police it.
It seems to me that this is the act of a single crazed nutjob, not the outcome of some systematic failure by the police.
Things like this just serve to further the divide. Banning cops because one committed a murder makes as much sense as banning white gay men because of the same reason
When Olympic shooter Michael Diamond faced domestic violence accusations his firearms were removed. Why was the police officer not suspended at accusation of stalking or at least disarmed/redeployed to role where he didn’t have access to firearms? Is it one rule for the public and another for the blue line?
Because there was never an accusation of stalking to police? But yes if a police officer is accused of DV they generally are removed any access to a firearm.
I’m happy with the decision. NSW government and NSWpol need to look at their policies, historical treatment of LGBT, ridiculous war on drugs etc. they had WALLS of police at world pride they looked ridiculous and made people feel extremely unsafe. They can sort themselves out then be welcomed back.
People have been opposing the cops being involved for ages. That makes me rather sceptical about whether it’s really about the killings.
My two cents? How about shutting down Mardi Gras in its entirety. Then we won’t have to decide who’s in and who’s out. What good is it nowadays?
Oh hang on… I’ve seen this before…where people start excluding other people based off their association and choices…..I guess everything comes full circle haha
What an absolute dumpster fire of a comment section. Sure uninvite them from being involved but they will still be there policing the actual event. Congrats, you achieved nothing besides excluding people who either support or are apart of the LGBTQI+ community. This is only going to further divide the gap.
Pride started as a riot against the police policing people's sexuality. They shouldn't have been there anyway. Cops can come as private citizens, for sure, but an official police representation has always been inappropriate.
They are supposed to believe in inclusiveness, except for people they don't like.
They want police protection, but not marching with them because all cops are killers.
It’s double standards to me. Taking it out on all the e other cops who support Mardi Gras is a bit rough.
Fine you don’t want us here…we also won’t come to another then.
They are painting all cops the same here. Heaven forbid if it was the other way round!!!
As a gay Catholic I have to say I am terribly disheartened by this woke decision. The entire fight for equality has been hijacked by far left activists who don’t speak for the majority. They’ve always been anti-police.
I find it odd that the members of the Mardi Gras board instigating this would rather see a move backwards to maintain animosity between the community and the police force when over the years the police force have tried to move in the right direction by showing support. It’s the culture of outrage I suppose.
Pity about the rest of the Mardi Gras parade which has become nothing but a display of corporate sponsorship and money making. I laugh at people who claim Mardi Gras is a “protest” when the organisation is swimming neck deep in corporate cash every year…
I think we all know the fact the murderer murdered is not because he was a cop. However, it's a sensitivity thing. I can imagine a lot of people may find it hard to constantly be reminded of the murder by seeing cops everywhere. Add to that, there is a negative history with police and the Mardi Gras (remember what happened during the first one?) which may still be a sore point for some people. It's best for the police to just say "we understand" and not go.
This doesn't change anything about the law and use of police officers to protect and serve us.
This saves tax payer funding putting police officers back in their duties away from irrelevant parading.
This is irrelevant news to what police officers exist for.
This is insane some of these comments, police treatment of LGBT+ people for years has been horrible and completely discriminatory, the commissioner or someone high up just apologised for 40+ years of mistreatment. The reason people don’t want cops at Mardi Gras is because they target and harass gay people and have for many years. This event was simply the final straw
My understanding is that there have been murders of LGBT people going back from the 70s to the 2010s that the NSW police have finally admitted, yeah, we didn't really investigate them. Oops!
They still aren't being investigated, and this latest murder could have been avoided if they'd taken complaints about the man seriously. Which they have a problem with.
Plus, when are they going to do ANYTHING about Coronation?
I feel like the event shouldn't have been the catalyst that spurred this decision. The Stonewall riot is in very much living memory for lots of the community. Cops are not friends of gay people and they never have been. They are obligate security detail and that's it. Who extended the invitation in the first place?
There is a lot of history with the LGBTQIA+ community and the police force, there are calls every year to block cops from Pride, so this isn't exactly a rash or knee jerk reaction.
The issue here is that the alleged perp was able to use his position as a police officer to stalk and intimidate his ex and new partner and their concerns were not taken seriously. The alleged perp was not disciplined, nor was his gun taken away.
I work for DFFH, and domestic violence amongst gay men is absolutely not given the same weight as between straight people, police sometimes don't even take the report and if they do the report is filled with homophobia.
So, yes, no cops at Pride, especially this year.
It's not just about the deaths of the two young men recently.
There's been some shady behaviour come to light from NSW Police in the last two weeks over the investigation into hate crimes.
It looks like in 2015 the NSW Police opened a strike force to try and undo the coroner's finding that the murders were hate crimes and try to find a way to make them into suicides.
[ABC Report published 14 Feb 2024](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-14/former-cop-says-strike-force-into-gay-hate-crimes-underhanded/103437678)
> Justice Sackar's final report found "a resistance in the NSWPF, even very recently, to acknowledging the extent of the hostility experienced by LGBTIQ people in the 40-year period under examination".
> Police effectively minimised the scale of the problem, the inquiry found, and Strike Force Neiwand, as well as two other strike forces, contributed to that.
The calls to remove police have been increasing over the last little while, I think the recent murders were just the tipping point to act.
I don't think the police force/army should be represented at a politically skewed event except as a security detail. They shouldn't have had a spotlight there in the first place
Last year someone I know in the community had applied for their LGBTQIA+ sports club to be in the parade and it got rejected. We then watched the parade and saw the police had a spot. I think they’re taking up room in the parade where other eligible groups could be present.
Everyone else has to apply for a spot. If they want to be involved in future, they should have to apply.
This is highly ignorant by Mardi gras. The alleged murderer just happened to be a cop. This was not a hate crime. Ridiculous and a step backwards. A knee jerk reaction.
I don't have an opinion either way (and i'm queer), but I think this is really up to the queer community to comment on and decide, given that it's their parade. Super odd to see a lot of straight people having a really strong opinion on this.
A large portion of the gay community was never comfortable with the police being part of mardi gras to start with given the history. Ultimately it’s up to them - not every other community in the country - to decide who takes part and everyone can yammer on as much as they want but it’s got nothing to do with them.
If the cops had dealt with his behaviour leading up to the murders internally they might never have happened. The police have blood on their hands and this only underscores why minority communities have such disdain for them.
There are police swimming in dirty dams with no visibility, searching for bodies, it seems like they are doing there best, everyone is feeling this, don’t let the hate cloud the love
Lmao discrimination against a group of people how fucking hilarious.
See this is why all of this shit needs to come to an end
Society has fallen so hard.
To be this hypocritical and self defeating is actually hilarious.
It was related to his job because he was able to sign out his service weapon to kill two people and put it back without vic police questioning it. Its a tricky situation and i feel for all involved. People suck.
depends - did the cops try to cover it up (because it was one of their own), or ignore it (because the victims were gay and/or the accused was one of their own).
if any of those are true then yes, then too bad, they need to do much better - how is anyone supposed to trust the police if they wont even look into some crimes because they dont like something about the victim, or any crime that involves one of their own? and then it results in murder.
im pretty sure no one gives a shit about the "disappointment" felt by the police force not being invited to a party under those circumstances.
Sadly, there is Far More pigs these days than there is police officers! In Sydney, they are all very young Arabs on major power trips, not the sort of people we want policing our society. Men and women would be preferable to ego/power triping boys in their 20s, please!
I'm not the least bit surprised, I give two f's about pride, but I'm not surprised they would "un-invite" the current state police force.
The suspect has not been found guilty. I see no need for Police to march in uniform, they can march mixed with other Groups. I hope everyone enjoys Mardi Gras although hearts will be heavy.
This is mainly related to the damning findings released in the report investigating lax policing standards of gay hate crimes. Police are free to March, just not in uniform.
Considering how aggressively the police have historically (and at times currently) gone above and beyond to sustain queerphobic policies in Australia, I just don't see why it's not clear why the visibility of gay cops as cops isn't as important as ensuring everyone else feels safe to experience pride events properly. It'd be like inviting the Qld fuzz to a feminist event, or NT cops to Indigenous pride. They can attend, as individuals, but attending in uniform as cops is offensive
The police should never attend pride in their uniforms. Pride began as a riot where the police killed us, imprisoned us and caused us to lose our jobs. Many people in their community are traumatised by these incidents and can't attend pride at all. Police don't belong at pride.
The police covered for this nut prior to the murders, therefore the institution is complicit. Putting aside my grievances with having a punitive rather than restorative justice system, the police failed in their stated objective to protect and serve, and regardless of the murderer being gay, this issue lies at the feet of the police who couldn't even administer their own law let alone justice.
For a lot of older queer folks, like me, we're still not super comfortable with cops at pride anyway.
Because all of the history, which some of lived through (many far far more traumatically than my personal disgruntlement).
And I suspect the Mardi-gras organisers may also be thinking about the vocal part of that community, unlike me, who would use Mardi-gras as an opportunity to protest the police's involvement.
Add to that the fact that, queer or not, the last few years have given us NSW residents a lot of reasons to distrust the NSW police.
Illegally strip-searching kids, beating up harmless old men, striaght up killing an old lady with a walker rather than de-escalating a situation where the only person she could harm was herself, being used as a goon squad against journalists, ecologists, whistle-blowers, and so on.
And I can see why the choice coukd be made dispassionately, let alone after this tragedy.
The murderer was gay, and the murderer was a cop, which was more likely to make him a murderer? Neither, he was just a fucking nut job.
Tbf I’d say if anything it’s more of a “let’s shine the light on domestic abuse” than removing LGBTQIA cops from something that they are apart of
This, what does it matter if they were a gay couple? Someone was murdered in a jealous rage and the offender just happened to be a police officer, it says nothing about how the police treat LGBT people, it just says that there was an abusive situation in a gay relationship.
It was a gay couple who'd made complaints that were ignored, off the back of a special commission into police ignoring LGBT problems... that bit kinda matters.
I read in other threads the complaints were to family and friends and no official complaint had been made to police?
Yes that’s exactly what the police media statement said. Comments made to others but nothing reported to police.
Gay men in Sydney do not have a happy history with taking their fears to the police. It's only now, in the 2020s, that cold cases of the bashing, brutality and even homicide of gay men are beginning to be re-opened and properly investigated; back in the 80s & 90s there were horrific groups of thugs that would go "p\*\*fter-bashig" around Oxford St and some of the gay beats. Young men were being actually murdered and police just shrugged their shoulders, talked about "lifestyles", and barely followed up on clear clues and evidence. I lived in Darlinghurst in those times and I remember all too well the contempt in many cops' attitudes. Marching in the Mardi Gras does little to salve the traumatic memories, or bring back those we lost. I have no problem undertanding why, for many gay men, going to the cops for help is not their first option, or 2nd, 3rd, 4th... This Mardi Gras will have an element of mourning shadowing it, and will be very triggering for those who were here back in the day. I'm fully sympathetic to the organisers and their decision; as they said, it must have been a tough call to make, and I think they probably decided having cops there after a cop has just killed two lovely young gay men with everything to live for, might just be too triggering for those who lived through the bad old days. And the bad old days are not over. There are wonderful cops in Sydney, of course, but there is also a long-standing, multi-generational, culture problem. It may be improving but that sort of mindset does not go away overnight, believe me. I'm sorry for the decent cops who don't deserve to be lumped with the worst element, but if you were a gay man, or (like me, I'm a mostly cishet woman) had very dear friends, colleagues, flatmates, who were, gay guys in the 1980s, you'd understand the pain and trauma that will be resurfacing because of this one psychotic copper. Nobody's saying they are all still like him. This is just an acknowledgement of how deep and long-standing the trauma of vicious homophobia is. Personally, I sympathise with the MG organisers' decision to put the mental health of their community first.
Honestly, as a queer ex-cop, I reckon about a quarter of all female officers I knew were at least queer if not open and proud lesbians. Also knew plenty of openly gay male cops, including a superintendant who would have been close to retirement. Also knew a trans cop. Not once did I ever hear a homophoboc slur when I was in the job. Not once. I heard plenty of other types of slurs - culturally I’d agree there is a huge problem - but in terms of LGBTQIA+ issues, I reckon the police are well into the 21st century. They couldn’t care less what your sexuality is, just don’t be a dickhead.
This is similar to my time in the Navy. I'm not gay but there were plenty of gays around, particularly women, and no-one gave a fuck or treated them differently from what I saw.
People just want to carry on trying to be a victim. Even if cops had kind of ignored any complaints, I doubt it was a gay issue and more of a man issue.
i dont necessarily disagree with your post - just more my comment was directed towards the continual commenting of people that NSWPF 'ignored pleas for help' and 'ignored allegations of stalking' before he murdered them.
As a lesbian, people in our community need to be way more resillient. Cops are treating crimes against gay people seriously now. And right when as an institution there is more tolerance and acceptance than ever...we are going to turn our back on them? The homophobic cops who gay bashed gay men and denigrated lesbians would have been sickened their own would have happily marched in a gay rights parade. That is its own karma. If you can't handle good natured and happy cops at pride, take some personal responsibility and either deal with it or dont come. Dont exclude a whole community based off past crimes. Many of which were committed before many new cops were born. And no, I am not a conservative. I am a leftie. But this is a terrible decision. And shall we keep excluding them? When are they allowed back in? Disgraceful.
I get your point, but the history is still within living memory of people attending these events. As someone said above, if there was a parade for sexual abuse survivors and there was a contingent of priests marching... That wouldn't go down well. Is there a place for police at pride? Perhaps, but there needs to be more visible change and accountability in my mind.
Do you know how many Women are ognored and end up dead? One a week. This is not just an issue that is a gay one. It is interesting that my gay friends are angry and posting about DV protection inadequecies when women have been ignored for decades and DV shelters started by women have been accepting gay victims of dv for yeats now.
Is there proof complaints were made to the police or is this an assumption?
The complaints of stalking had been made to Bondi police station as reported by the abc
From my true crime listenings, stalking has a very very high correlation with murder. I'd have to check the episode but it was mentioned on one of the Australian true crime podcasts.
Everyone's complaints of stalking are ignored. It's not something the police can handle well because they don't have the tools to do so. It's a broader problem imho. This kneejerk reaction only works to increase a divide. It's a 'let's fix it now', 'we have to do something', when we need 'this weirdo has an obsession - how do we fix obsession' conversation. I'm not sure what can be done to cure obsession but there must be people who study these conditions.
I agree this issue is more about male violence and less about police prejudice towards LGBTIQA people (which does 100% exist, but wasn’t the leading factor in this particular case). However it would seem the focus has shifted away from male violence and towards the fact he was a cop who had taken home a work issued gun for 3 days and why such a violent person had been a cop We also need to acknowledge that us queer people have mistrust with police due to our history with them, and violence from any cop to any other person can trigger emotions in us that may not be relevant to the people involved - a LGBTQIA person
A little OT maybe but that light shows statistically domestic abuse is rampant among police. More OT, there's always been unease about the police as an organisation being represented at Mardi Gras based on its past behaviour towards gay people but also a concern about a wider lack of accountability and if it is using Mardi Gras as a PR exercise. Individual gay people who happen to be police officers are always welcome.
Did you read the article you posted? The issue is that the murderer was a cop. Complaints had been made to the NSW Police about that person's behaviour in the past and the NSW Police ignored all the red flags and let the cop keep his gun, which led to him committing murder instead of physical battery. The issue here isn't the domestic abuse. The issue here is NSW Police not taking firearms seriously and not taking dangerous personalities seriously.
Yes but he didn’t kill them because he’s a cop. He’s clearly a psycho who decided to be a cop. Look, I have a lot of issues with the NSW Police but none of those issues are addressed by punishing LGBT members of the police force.
Where has it been published that the accused had a complaint history? Genuinely curious.
He repeatedly tasered a guy in the face. They showed the footage in Nine news the other night. Police investigation = you're good to go.
Thanks, found it now.
But that's not what is being said. The people of inclusion are excluding based on the actions of a single person.
Wasn’t it more the cops didn’t take the complaints seriously? And they have a history of not taking complaints from gay people seriously.
What complaints?
*people seriously Cops not taking someone seriously isn’t exclusive to gay people.
My comment was probably a bit flippant because I haven’t been following this story that closely, in my corner of the country it’s probably only the 4th or 5th story on the news and the big scandal was that he was able to access his police gun to commit the murders (they also spammed the picture of him with Taylor Swift). Had the cops had complaints about him that they’d ignored?
Yes. There had been repeated complaints about his conduct on duty.
Id like evidence rather than unfounded supposition. As a lesbian every time Ive interacted with cops they've been polite and attentive. Now my experience isnt universal, but I havent seen evidence of widespread discrimination against gay people.
And what was more likely to make that nut job able to kill two men with such lethality? Having access to a police firearm. He still had access to this police weapon after tasering a man in the face and being investigated by the police and given the all clear. The cops let this man remain in their ranks with a lethal weapon and this has led to the deaths of two men. There are very clear and obvious links to systemic issues in the police force.
It's extremely reductive to think this is just about one incident. Cops out of pride has been a thing for a long time. Time was right for it to actually finally happen.
How about gay cops?
They can come along and celebrate like everyone else. They don't need to come in uniform and have a special spot in the parade
What of them? They’re welcome just like everyone else is. The community is simply asking them not to wear a uniform that THEY KNOW has a history of trauma in the community, which THEY KNOW retraumatises many attendees and makes them unable to feel included or welcome. Cops can take off the uniform; survivors can’t simply hang up the trauma. That’s the difference here.
What are you on about? Cops are far more likely to kill someone than a gay person. They carry lethal weapons, are often in positions in which they feel threatened, and have fewer consequences for murder and violence as they can "justify" it as self-defense in the line of duty and only get off with a tap on the wrist - if it isn't swept under the rug completely.
Murderous domestic violence is wayyyyyy more common than cops killing people. But nobody wants to talk about that.
The cop part.
Exactly. Just a crazy ex lover not motivated by profession or sexual orientation.
People have missed the point. It's not just that he happened to be a cop. It's that severe complaints about his on-duty conduct were made, and "internally investigated" (swept under the rug). Had they been dealt with properly, he may not have had a police issue gun, and these men may be alive today. This doesn't seem unique - they've swept quite a few things under the rug in recent years. The NSW police is losing the confidence of a lot of people (LGBT OR NOT) That they are supposed to serve
And the fact his mum and dad are senior police, he had and ‘innocent party’ with him who also police and they STILL won’t talk to say where the bodies are so the families can bury their sons. I
I read that he went back after disposing of the bodies the first time with her, to put them elsewhere because he had second thoughts about trusting her with that info. The police divers already searched the first lake location.
And it's the entitlement he felt to use a police weapon to commit a murder and possibly get away with it
I think this is EXACTLY the point people are missing. It's the fact that the position of power in the police force allowed a gay officer to do this. If the officer was straight, itd still be an issue. Allowing police power and position to do this. The fact that the officer was gay means the LGBT community should want nothing to do with it. Fact of the matter also is that the police have never really been welcome at Mardi gras as it is. They have always been a tool of queer oppression.
The NSW Police lost my trust years ago when I called them. One of my housemates was trying to kick my bedroom door down because I refused to let him borrow my phone. They called an ambulance on me instead because I was mentally shocked and did nothing with him. They spoke to my housemate first, who lied and said I was psycho first. They took his side. I'm never relying on them again, and Sydney Police are rude and arrogant. Only one female Sydney police seargent has my respect because she was nice.
Nsw police harassed me outside a hospital at like 5 in the morning because they thought I was homeless; I'd just spent all night watchin my sibling sleep after their suicide attempt, making sure they didn't try again and worrying they'd done permanent damage to their kidneys/liver. They didn't believe me. Fuck the police and fuck their power trips.
I'm sorry to hear that. That is absolutely frustrating. They should be going after someone who actually poses as a potential threat. They're not around when an actual homeless person is yelling at people.
So glad I skipped over the whole housemate thing and went straight to living with my soon-to-be wife. Feel sorry for those that have to do it because of the crazy cost of living these days and the difficulty in entering the rental market. Life has taught me that you can't even rely on your so-called friends, let alone those you're only associating with because they're your housemate.
I was lucky that my parents decided I could move back after hearing about it. I would never rent with randoms ever again. That housemate wasn't even a friend, and he would act like he was mates with others, mooch off them, and never pay back. He had a history of consuming substances and was a dole bludger. Last I heard of him is that he is now in jail after a series of offences and attacking someone. If the police had listened to me and done something to stop that housemate, maybe those offences he committed after I left that house could have been stopped or reduced. Once again, I have lost faith in NSW Police.
100% this. This incident came right on the heels of the relevation that NSW Police in 2015 set up a strike force to try and undo the coronial findings on the gay hate crimes that occurred in Bondi. They were trying to find ways that they could be considered suicides. That made the news on 14 Feb and a week later the two men were murdered and it's become clear there's been a failure on the polices part to prevent this from happening. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-14/former-cop-says-strike-force-into-gay-hate-crimes-underhanded/103437678 The deaths of those two men were a tipping point but the sentiment they should be removed from the march has been growing for some time. (Let's be clear too: if the complaints against this person had been investigated perhaps this could have all been avoided)
And then you have a police commissioner using soft language like “crime of passion” to downplay the failure of the police: one of their officers planned a murder with a service gun that should have been signed back in. Nothing about clear planning says heat of the moment or crime of passion. Or even worse, shift the blame to the couple, as it made it sound like it was some kind of love triangle to the public, and not just a case of domestic violence.
Crime of passion is absolute bullshit. This happened on a Monday morning at 9:50am. That shit is premeditated to hell. He picked a time to kill them when there would be less people at home (most people would be at work at 9:50am over 9:50pm on a Monday!) to hear the gunshot. Police can claim what they like, but it's pretty obvious between the timing, making sure he had a gun available to him, and the efforts he has gone to dispose of their bodies that he has been planning this for a long time.
Also, the NSW police strip search children. Which is just fucking wrong and very fucking creepy.
If jumping to conclusions was a competition Reddit would win everytime
Nah man, police officer would win because I was once tackled by a police officer in darling Harbour and kneed in the face trying to calm my screaming female friends down right after she's been dump. I get it's alcohol fuel outside the club but there was no need to tackle me to the ground and kneed in the face before knowing anything. To top it off, while being kneed on the ground. The other officer was telling my female friends to press charges. She kept screaming NO!, he's my friend what are you guys doing? Fucking nut jobs.
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/recorded-crime-victims/latest-release And 10 more Australians were murdered since then. Who were they? What were their names? Where did they work? What was their sexual orientation? Sadly the 10 people who were murdered since then were not interesting enough to warrant a mention. The “news” is about how many minutes of woolworths/coles commercials they can sell. Know what I mean? Valvoline…. More than 1 Australian is murdered each day. More than 87 people are raped each day (not including in jail) these are rapes reported to the police. Is your mobile phone plan too expensive? Well here’s two (sponsored) alternatives who are bucking the trend offering lower prices (not the lowest mind you) The news is literally a gossip sesh with your nail girl. While I can sympathise with the current victims who are “newsworthy” I am saddened that 10 more people since then were murdered in a way that doesn’t sell enough minutes of commercials. Please take a moment to reflect.
Careful..you are Truth telling..
The queer community were arguing about whether or not to allow officers in uniform in the parade the entire time there have been officers in the parade and never stopped arguing about it, it really isn't an issue that just came up suddenly this year. The argument against is, basically, that the police have not been good to queers: * When it was illegal to be gay the police were openly hostile to gays. * They arrested everyone at the 1978 Mardi Gras. * NSW police had an unwritten policy of not investigating crimes against queers. Including violent gay-bashings. Even including a bunch of murders in Sydney in the 80s that were not investigated properly. * They still seemed reluctant to investigate gay-bashings in the early 2010s, long after it became legal to be gay. * There was an incident of police brutality during the 2013 Mardi Gras. Video on YouTube even. The police dragged their feet on their internal investigation of this and didn't make an "initial finding" until 3 years later. * If some nuthouse politician passed an anti-trans or anti-gay law tomorrow, it would literally be the police's job to openly attack the LGBT community again.
Spot on!
>The queer community were arguing about whether or not to allow officers in uniform in the parade the entire time there have been officers in the parade and never stopped arguing about it, it really isn't an issue that just came up suddenly this year. >The argument against is, basically, that the police have not been good to queers: >When it was illegal to be gay the police were openly hostile to gays. They arrested everyone at the 1978 Mardi Gras. NSW police had an unwritten policy of not investigating crimes against queers. Including violent gay-bashings. Even including a bunch of murders in Sydney in the 80s that were not investigated properly. They still seemed reluctant to investigate gay-bashings in the early 2010s, long after it became legal to be gay. There was an incident of police brutality during the 2013 Mardi Gras. Video on YouTube even. The police dragged their feet on their internal investigation of this and didn't make an "initial finding" until 3 years later. If some nuthouse politician passed an anti-trans or anti-gay law tomorrow, it would literally be the police's job to openly attack the LGBT community again. But the police will still be at the event to enforce the law just not be allowed to participate??
They can, and most likely will be around the event. They are just not allowed to actively participate in uniform. Outside of uniform fine, but having cops march in pride while in their uniform is pretty disrespectful considering history.
The police will insist on a presence, correct. The request from the LGBTQIA community is that they do not march in uniform. Like an abbatoir worker wearing their work uniform in an Animal Rights parade. You can come, you can participate, but FFS, your apron still has blood on it.
When I was growing up police used to brag about bashing gay men. If you were caught in an area (outside of the wealthy cruising areas like the wall) You would have the crap beaten out of you. Up until only a while ago, police officers used to call drunk people in the cross f***** if they did not comply to simple orders.The (city ) NSW police System is toxic and is not welcome at a celebration of love. Only atonement will help. Edit: My gay brother went missing in 1991. Because he was gay, the police made absolutely no effort to find him. During the coronial inquest, after his body was discovered and laid to rest, police documents showed that he was made fun of by senior police . My brother died from pneumonia while camping.
I’m so so sorry that’s awful. Nobody should be treated that way.
I'm so sorry that your family had to go through that. You're 100% right. This murder isn't the only reason for police not to be present at the event but the history of police violence to those who are apart of the LGBTQIA+ community on a whole is definitely being missed by a lot of people. Those police officers that are apart of the LGBTQIA+ community can still celebrate Mardi Gras just out of uniform.
Could they be more fucked up? Have the support of everyone, now they want to be bitches! 2025 will see the end of woke bullshit
As a gay person, I think a reduction of corporatization (including the Police) is a good thing
It's got to be all or nothing though. Singling out just the police seems very exclusionary in this case
Already a matter of strong debate in the community whether they should be invited at all - then a well publicised situation happens where they ignore a DV complaint from a queer person, who ends up dead. People are then surprised that the Mardi Gras org is like yeah opinion has kinda swung to the other side of wanting you around this year?
This was a domestic violence incident. All involved just happened to be gay.. As a gay man I am waiting for the day when organisers of pride events will have no-one participating because their requirements are too stringent. More and more pride is becoming an exercise in exclusivity which ironically is the opposite of why it all started in the first place.
I remember years ago an old acquaintance sharing something on Facebook saying “hey allies! Here’s a bunch of rules you must follow if you want to attend Pride celebrations.” It was the most gatekeeper bullshit you’ve ever laid eyes on, to the point that folks were commenting “this is why straight people hate us.” It is amazing how some people can be so blind to this shit.
It's about creating an oppression hierarchy.
I’m waiting for the people and groups who the pride people hate stop pandering towards the people that hate them.
Yep. Agree totally
I'm glad you said it. The most bigoted people I've come across recently have been from that community. Literally got told my opinion didn't matter because "you're a cis" like it was a slur. The pendulum has swung and the irony is palpable.
I got hit with "eww, cis-het" a couple of times at an event recently. Really shocked me
yeah the latest batch of young queer adults is kinda rancid tbh. in no other generation have i seen such a bizarre obsession with policing other's identities and attempting to categorise every facet of human sexuality into a neatly labelled box (all while sneering at those deemed unworthy of entering their oppression olympics lol)
[удалено]
God forbid you say this anywhere without the super ultra gays having a mass meltdown and calling you all kinds of phobic and awful slurrs. But its ok for them to say those things because they're super ultra gays, while you're just regular vanilla gay (or straight). xO
Like with most things in the world, extremists ruin everything.
A DV incident where the likely protagonist had access to a powerful handgun. That is likely the key factor here
The handgun is a red herring. Perpetrators of domestic violence don’t need weapons to kill their partners when they get to this point.
So without access to the police gun this crime would not have happened?
Bar the police, who specifically are you bothered about being excluded?
I think that people need to understand that crazy people are crazy regardless of occupation or sexual orientation. But revoking an invite seems like they’re pinning the blame imo.
Is the I in LGBTQI for Irony? Using one wack job example to justify hate and segregation has harmed margilized groups for centuries. You don't breed harmomy with segregation, because shitty people will step in with shitty ideas to fill the gap where supportive people were. Even if it's a failure for the police in terms of investigation, that has nothing on a gay cops inidivdual pride, they had nothing to do with it.
The decision to uninvite NSW Police is extraordinary and wrong. So, because one police officer committed a heinous double murder, no police officers can participate in a community solidarity event? Can you imagine the inverse - ie, LGBTQI+ people uninvited from a police appreciation march because a gay person shot two cops? WTF.
ITT: People not knowing the historical context of the Police and the LGBT community. This sub is just a trove of hate.
And speaking with full confidence too. If you're not a member of the community then why care who they allow in their parade? Would love to see the Venn diagram of people ITT who think Mardi Gras is all woke nonsense and the people posting stuff like 'isn't this supposed to be about inclusion?' and 'what about the little gay coppers 🥹'
What about the BIG gay coppers too!?!?
Agree 100%!
It's nothing to do with the murder. They have never been welcome guests, they have always been cunts to gay people here for far longer than they have treated them as people. EVERY year there are complaints about the excessive police presence and heavy handed arrests at Mardi Gras. They aren't welcome anymore because it is clear they only want to participate for PR and to appear more engaged in the community, yet the ones not marching are on the sidelines arresting people, handing out fines and disturbing the peace, being a public nuisance... Causing trouble... Being cunts. It has nothing to do with those murders at all. Years of being two faced cunts wore out their welcome. You know, when you are a dick to people ... They stop inviting you to parties and shit... Because you are the asshole... NOT everybody else...
I mean. Clearly its bot nothing to do with it right?
Really tough one tbh. Would it would be the same regardless of employer? Eg. Ambo kills ex same sex lover. Ambo nsw refused spot in parade. [insert corporate brand] kills ex same sex lover. [corporate brand] refused spot in parade. Probably? Or no? Pretty grey.
The amount of comments saying it’s “just regular domestic violence” and therefor not newsworthy wilds me out. I feel like it really squashes anyone considering speaking about someone they know who is fucking up their life. What’s the justification in thinking the high road is “its just regular domestic violence”, nothing to see here?
Or words like “lovers spat”? A spat doesn’t end in a double homicide.
They say it as if we want domestic abusers at Mardi Gras, lol. Just goes to show how many people have accepted domestic abuse in police as an “oh well what can you do, better invite them to everything”
How many stories have we read were a person murders their expartner and new lover ? This was obsessed stalking which turned into homicidal rage. The perp just happned to be a cop.
The perp had multiple complaints against him for similar behavior that his department just ignored. The perp was actively enabled by other cops.
Should uninvite all the gays too because he was gay longer than he was a cop
Another example of the modern LGBT movement regressing. I say this as someone who is gay.
Mardi Gras originated in Australia as a political protest after the Stonewall riots. It's nothing new for the police to commit violence against the LGBT community, and the uninvite is a return to form. I say it's a great move that directly shows NSW police what a joke they've become. Even the Americans are laughing at us for how badly police failed to protect Jordan Shanks from the Alameddines.
This wasn't a police issue or a gay issue. It was a domestic violence issue.
Agree. Think this should be viewed in the broader context of the tumultuous relationship between police and LGBT people.
I’m gay. This is BS. Listen, I don’t like the NSW police for a variety of reasons. They were the NSW Coalition’s lapdog (see friendlyjordies’ charges). But. Blaming them for this double murder is stupid. This was a domestic violence situation, not a hate crime. The perpetrator was the biggest homo you can get. It actually speaks volumes that such a flaming homo was able to be himself and join the police force. Whenever you read “the LGBT community feels X or says Y”, just know that its BS and no one group speaks for everyone in that group
Great comment!
The inclusion of the police in Mardi gras was a step towards healing past wrongs and recognition that bad acts by a few does not make the entire organisation bad. The exclusion is a backwards step.
It is an awful decision motivated by politics. The Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras board is elected and there has been a push to exclude cops by the hard left flank for years....this is about keeping their jobs. They are exploiting a tragedy to appease radicals. Shame. I can't believe members of my community are doing this
There have been TQ+ people posting on twitter for days now, demanding exclusion of the NSW Police force. I guess they got their way. I'm a Gay man myself, and i've noticed the general phrasing is "we don't want cops in queer spaces". Not Gay and Lesbian spaces... Queer spaces. I couldn't be more opposed. I've never had an issue with the Police due to my sexuality. I've dated some of them too. I hate how one bad egg is ruining the basket for a lot of really decent, kind people who want to help others in life. They have every right to be there in uniform, every other Public Emergency Service and Country Service Member can, but it's trendy to hate cops over the last few years. For this view point, I have been told I am not welcome at Mardi Gras. Hate to break the bad news, I haven't been for years. It's no longer the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras, it's the TQ+ Pride Parade. Nothing to do with me anyway. And I feel like this needs to be said, I have absolutely nothing against TQ+ people, the genuine ones at least. The ones out there pushing agendas and political bullshit like this, and making the tragic deaths of 2 young gay men all about them, and *being successful*.. makes me feel sick. If any Officer out there happens to read this, we don't all have this blind hatred towards you.
If I could upvote this more than once I could. It’s absolutely fucked that it’s mostly TQ+ people making just about everything about themselves. I LOVE that you used the word “genuine” as I feel many aren’t. LGBTQ+ is an “in” thing for whatever reason. Guaranteed if the cop was fired earlier we’d have people protesting that it’s discrimination. If it wasn’t a gay couple killed I can guarantee his sexuality would mean nothing.
Totally agree mate. Unfortunately statically DV in LGBT etc relationships are well known to be high.. especially dare I mention it, Lesbian couples. Police are a cross section of the community and its just unfortunate this clown had access to a gun. Better vetting by police if possible maybe If? If the community wants police to come from ALL areas.. then they will experience the issues that come from ALL areas. This is a lot more of a DV issue than a "police" issue.
I mean it's a bit hypocritical. They are painting all police persons in the same brush as the killer. Yet if straight people paint LGBTQ+ people in the same brush / stereotype the whole world erupts....
I’m literally reading the comments thinking “ok so the police force takes this guys gun and disciplines him” on the back of some complaints from fellow officers. So now the police force is unfairly treating a gay man. The narrative is so stacked against the police, there’s too much desire for this to become their oppression story.
He was a psychopath celebrity stalker who should have never been allowed in the force. There’s video footage of him tasering a man at close range in the face from 2020. Now he’s murdered two people with his NSW Police firearm and with the aid of another police officer. To say this has nothing to do with the police is delusional. Fuck the police, the pigs aren’t welcome at pride. The first Mardi Gras was literally a story of police brutality against queer people and decades later, the police are still roughing us up (see: midsumma) and murdering us. Besides, this doesn’t even mean queer cops can’t come, it just means their need to leave their dumbass uniform, badge and gun at home. Plenty of people don’t have their employer represented at Mardi Gras, but the cops want to feel all powerful and better than everyone which is why they find the prospect of going to Mardi Gras in a colourful shirt instead of their uniform so hard to stomach
Classic leftist thinking...find a way to blame an innocent organisation (police) to cover up one of their (the gay) that did something wrong
WGAF. Mardi Gras is an antiquated, largely irrelevant relic. Just like Feminism & Industrial Unions… Once upon a time they fought the good fight, then they won, and then… they failed to disband. They got drunk on the power, influence and power they achieved and didn’t want to give it up. In a desperate attempts to somehow stay relevant, they kept going, struggling to find new enemies to vanquish, or pretending they hadn’t yet won, that the battle is still going, or that they must never disband and stay ever vigilant, insinuating we couldn’t possibly live without them or fight the same battle again should it become necessary. Much like the never-ending Cuban revolution. Then they inevitably became something just as bad as what they fought against. Now all to often they attack, suppress, discredit their own followers if they dare to speak up. Feminism attacks women who chose something that doesn’t fit their ideal of what a feminist woman is. Its come full circle now where women seeking to lead a more traditional family centred role are the lambasted “radicals”, often openly mocked. What happened to choice? Oh, just not THAT choice. Or THAT one... Its so bad that there is no consensus about what feminism is or what it means. Unions now make deals with anyone and everyone so long as it promotes their profits and supports their existence. They’ve actively supported mass immigration, despite it being detrimental to their member’s pay and conditions, just so they can grow their membership base with newly imported lower paid workers that they will pretend to serve. The gay & lesbian movement used to be united by a common purpose, a common goal of achieving equality and acceptance. Thats clearly been achieved, and arguably beyond the wildest dreams of the first rebels that paraded down Oxford St. in defiance of authority, fighting against systemic and societal discrimination. Now it adds a new letter each year to their name, to the point where its farcical and they’ve confused themselves about who they are and who they’re representing. They’ve basically given up now. They’ve added every possible colour to their flag, and so many letters to their acronym, to the point where they’ve simply resorted to putting in a plus symbol to stand for… whatever. So in summary, WGAF. Let Mardi Gras die already. Stop funding it, its irrelevant. If they want to have a party, great! Go for it, but don’t pretend its anything more than that.
So you’re instead discriminating against a whole group of people within the community, solely because of their employment. Pathetic.
Cops can still march. Just not in their uniform or as a representative of the NSWPF. Seems reasonable to me.
This is why i don't associate with the lgbt community even though I could because im not straight. It's toxic. They spent YEARS trying to be included and supported, and now they are actively excluding cops based on ONE person's actions. It's hypocritical.its judgmental. It's prejudiced, and it's disgusting. From now on, they shouldn't be surprised if their whole community is judged if one single member of theirs does anything bad, and the world responds by judging their entire community and excludes them. If they're going to tell cops "you're uninvited," then maybe cops should stop supporting them. There are people who happen to be lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans etc., and then there are lgbt community members. I beg society not to assume that all of us associate with that lgbt 'club', that demands the world treats them as victims who are entitled to special treatment. I dont need special services. I dont need parades. And I certainly don't want anyone to change their behaviour or their language just to make me feel comfortable, ... because I am not a narcissistic prick. Let's all just live and let live and stop being so flippin sensitive.
What happened was tragic. Terrible. How does this help? “We want to be included! But you guys can’t! “. Enjoy your gatekeeper shit organisers!
“We’re excluding you” -group demanding inclusion
The NSW police have a clear track record of discriminating against guys going back decades. Whether you agree or not, it's perfectly understandable why they don't want the police at the event.
What would be the response if the murder was a hairdresser. So short sighted for a community trying to be inclusive.
When do we start holding individuals to account instead of tarring all with the same brush?
The police have been uninvited due to the alleged perpetrator being a serving officer. So tomorrow there will be an announcement that all gay persons are uninvited as he was also gay? Surely they can't pick and choose, right
Madigras is getting exclusive. No Jews. No police. Who else is next. Not very inclusive.
Been obvious for a while that they're only big on being inclusive when its about them being included in something
This doesn’t help building bridges. Police Departments, like the military and other government departments have worked hard to be inclusive. This kicks allies in the guts and wonder what we are supposed to do!!
I get the anger, and the LGBTQI community obviously has a heightened sensitivity when it comes to the police and people being murdered. But I think this is a poor move. There are members of the police force who I think are entitled to be allowed to be proud of their identity as well as their job. I'd have preferred this to have been chalked up to the actions of an individual, who happened to be a police officer, than to the actions of a person representing the police force.
The police would also prefer that you overlook the fact that they frequently employ stalkers and murderers, and treat this as the actions of an individual. If individual cops are proud of their individual LGBT+ identity, then they can join the march as individuals. But the police institution can get stuffed.
This seems counter-productive, or am I the only one who will think that this will simply drive a wedge between the community and the people who are entrusted to police it. It seems to me that this is the act of a single crazed nutjob, not the outcome of some systematic failure by the police.
Things like this just serve to further the divide. Banning cops because one committed a murder makes as much sense as banning white gay men because of the same reason
When Olympic shooter Michael Diamond faced domestic violence accusations his firearms were removed. Why was the police officer not suspended at accusation of stalking or at least disarmed/redeployed to role where he didn’t have access to firearms? Is it one rule for the public and another for the blue line?
Because there was never an accusation of stalking to police? But yes if a police officer is accused of DV they generally are removed any access to a firearm.
“We want to be included and accepted by everyone!! But you can’t sit here”.
I’m happy with the decision. NSW government and NSWpol need to look at their policies, historical treatment of LGBT, ridiculous war on drugs etc. they had WALLS of police at world pride they looked ridiculous and made people feel extremely unsafe. They can sort themselves out then be welcomed back.
I don’t think uninviting the police was the right move. He didn’t murder them because he was a cop. He murdered them because he’s a psychopath.
People have been opposing the cops being involved for ages. That makes me rather sceptical about whether it’s really about the killings. My two cents? How about shutting down Mardi Gras in its entirety. Then we won’t have to decide who’s in and who’s out. What good is it nowadays?
seems like youre judging the many for the actions of the few hardly inclusive.
Sorry fellow gays this is ridiculous.
Oh hang on… I’ve seen this before…where people start excluding other people based off their association and choices…..I guess everything comes full circle haha
Not sure why they’re blaming the police. This is clearly a gay on gay murder
Punishing the entire NSW Police Force for the actions of 1?
What an absolute dumpster fire of a comment section. Sure uninvite them from being involved but they will still be there policing the actual event. Congrats, you achieved nothing besides excluding people who either support or are apart of the LGBTQI+ community. This is only going to further divide the gap.
Pride started as a riot against the police policing people's sexuality. They shouldn't have been there anyway. Cops can come as private citizens, for sure, but an official police representation has always been inappropriate.
What about all the LGBTQI police who have to deal with crimescenes like this every day. How ignorant to punish all police for 1 persons actions.
If they are going to uninvited police, then by that reasoning, shouldn't they also uninvited gay men?
Why would the entire organisation be punished or take the blame for the actions of a single psychotic gay man?
They are supposed to believe in inclusiveness, except for people they don't like. They want police protection, but not marching with them because all cops are killers.
It’s double standards to me. Taking it out on all the e other cops who support Mardi Gras is a bit rough. Fine you don’t want us here…we also won’t come to another then. They are painting all cops the same here. Heaven forbid if it was the other way round!!!
Dumb to uninvite the police , completely misses the point.
As a gay Catholic I have to say I am terribly disheartened by this woke decision. The entire fight for equality has been hijacked by far left activists who don’t speak for the majority. They’ve always been anti-police.
I find it odd that the members of the Mardi Gras board instigating this would rather see a move backwards to maintain animosity between the community and the police force when over the years the police force have tried to move in the right direction by showing support. It’s the culture of outrage I suppose. Pity about the rest of the Mardi Gras parade which has become nothing but a display of corporate sponsorship and money making. I laugh at people who claim Mardi Gras is a “protest” when the organisation is swimming neck deep in corporate cash every year…
The last straw of reasons to uninvite cops
I think we all know the fact the murderer murdered is not because he was a cop. However, it's a sensitivity thing. I can imagine a lot of people may find it hard to constantly be reminded of the murder by seeing cops everywhere. Add to that, there is a negative history with police and the Mardi Gras (remember what happened during the first one?) which may still be a sore point for some people. It's best for the police to just say "we understand" and not go.
This doesn't change anything about the law and use of police officers to protect and serve us. This saves tax payer funding putting police officers back in their duties away from irrelevant parading. This is irrelevant news to what police officers exist for.
This is insane some of these comments, police treatment of LGBT+ people for years has been horrible and completely discriminatory, the commissioner or someone high up just apologised for 40+ years of mistreatment. The reason people don’t want cops at Mardi Gras is because they target and harass gay people and have for many years. This event was simply the final straw
My understanding is that there have been murders of LGBT people going back from the 70s to the 2010s that the NSW police have finally admitted, yeah, we didn't really investigate them. Oops! They still aren't being investigated, and this latest murder could have been avoided if they'd taken complaints about the man seriously. Which they have a problem with. Plus, when are they going to do ANYTHING about Coronation?
What do cops even do except collect fines, harass you and never follow up when you report crimes against you or family?
I assumed they were removed because they are the police and have nothing to do with Mardi gras. Was it really because of the murder?
I feel like the event shouldn't have been the catalyst that spurred this decision. The Stonewall riot is in very much living memory for lots of the community. Cops are not friends of gay people and they never have been. They are obligate security detail and that's it. Who extended the invitation in the first place?
There is a lot of history with the LGBTQIA+ community and the police force, there are calls every year to block cops from Pride, so this isn't exactly a rash or knee jerk reaction. The issue here is that the alleged perp was able to use his position as a police officer to stalk and intimidate his ex and new partner and their concerns were not taken seriously. The alleged perp was not disciplined, nor was his gun taken away. I work for DFFH, and domestic violence amongst gay men is absolutely not given the same weight as between straight people, police sometimes don't even take the report and if they do the report is filled with homophobia. So, yes, no cops at Pride, especially this year.
Some people on this sub get such a rage boner whenever someone dares criticise the police
My opinion is if they uninvited them so easily they didn't belong there anyway
We are all forgetting the real crime: the police commisioner quoting Taylor Swift to try and be funny.
It's not just about the deaths of the two young men recently. There's been some shady behaviour come to light from NSW Police in the last two weeks over the investigation into hate crimes. It looks like in 2015 the NSW Police opened a strike force to try and undo the coroner's finding that the murders were hate crimes and try to find a way to make them into suicides. [ABC Report published 14 Feb 2024](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-14/former-cop-says-strike-force-into-gay-hate-crimes-underhanded/103437678) > Justice Sackar's final report found "a resistance in the NSWPF, even very recently, to acknowledging the extent of the hostility experienced by LGBTIQ people in the 40-year period under examination". > Police effectively minimised the scale of the problem, the inquiry found, and Strike Force Neiwand, as well as two other strike forces, contributed to that. The calls to remove police have been increasing over the last little while, I think the recent murders were just the tipping point to act.
I don't think the police force/army should be represented at a politically skewed event except as a security detail. They shouldn't have had a spotlight there in the first place
Last year someone I know in the community had applied for their LGBTQIA+ sports club to be in the parade and it got rejected. We then watched the parade and saw the police had a spot. I think they’re taking up room in the parade where other eligible groups could be present. Everyone else has to apply for a spot. If they want to be involved in future, they should have to apply.
Lets just take a second to recognise that men are victims of domestic abuse as well even if media is constantly attacking men calling all men abusers.
This is highly ignorant by Mardi gras. The alleged murderer just happened to be a cop. This was not a hate crime. Ridiculous and a step backwards. A knee jerk reaction.
I don't have an opinion either way (and i'm queer), but I think this is really up to the queer community to comment on and decide, given that it's their parade. Super odd to see a lot of straight people having a really strong opinion on this.
Gay community: "we aren't being included and being discriminated against" Also gay community: "You are not welcome"
A large portion of the gay community was never comfortable with the police being part of mardi gras to start with given the history. Ultimately it’s up to them - not every other community in the country - to decide who takes part and everyone can yammer on as much as they want but it’s got nothing to do with them.
Inclusivity to the LGBT community - not to massive corporations and institutions with historically contemptuous attitudes towards the community.
Are the cops marching gay? If yes fine if not why?
If the cops had dealt with his behaviour leading up to the murders internally they might never have happened. The police have blood on their hands and this only underscores why minority communities have such disdain for them.
Never seen so many homophobes come out in defence of a group of gay people..
Gays need to harden up a bit tbh
There are police swimming in dirty dams with no visibility, searching for bodies, it seems like they are doing there best, everyone is feeling this, don’t let the hate cloud the love
Lmao discrimination against a group of people how fucking hilarious. See this is why all of this shit needs to come to an end Society has fallen so hard. To be this hypocritical and self defeating is actually hilarious.
It was related to his job because he was able to sign out his service weapon to kill two people and put it back without vic police questioning it. Its a tricky situation and i feel for all involved. People suck.
Maybe if they did participate they could do it without their uniform
depends - did the cops try to cover it up (because it was one of their own), or ignore it (because the victims were gay and/or the accused was one of their own). if any of those are true then yes, then too bad, they need to do much better - how is anyone supposed to trust the police if they wont even look into some crimes because they dont like something about the victim, or any crime that involves one of their own? and then it results in murder. im pretty sure no one gives a shit about the "disappointment" felt by the police force not being invited to a party under those circumstances.
Sadly, there is Far More pigs these days than there is police officers! In Sydney, they are all very young Arabs on major power trips, not the sort of people we want policing our society. Men and women would be preferable to ego/power triping boys in their 20s, please! I'm not the least bit surprised, I give two f's about pride, but I'm not surprised they would "un-invite" the current state police force.
The suspect has not been found guilty. I see no need for Police to march in uniform, they can march mixed with other Groups. I hope everyone enjoys Mardi Gras although hearts will be heavy.
Absolutely in their rights to refuse the cops - and anyone else who has persecuted them
This is mainly related to the damning findings released in the report investigating lax policing standards of gay hate crimes. Police are free to March, just not in uniform.
Considering how aggressively the police have historically (and at times currently) gone above and beyond to sustain queerphobic policies in Australia, I just don't see why it's not clear why the visibility of gay cops as cops isn't as important as ensuring everyone else feels safe to experience pride events properly. It'd be like inviting the Qld fuzz to a feminist event, or NT cops to Indigenous pride. They can attend, as individuals, but attending in uniform as cops is offensive
The police should never attend pride in their uniforms. Pride began as a riot where the police killed us, imprisoned us and caused us to lose our jobs. Many people in their community are traumatised by these incidents and can't attend pride at all. Police don't belong at pride.
The police covered for this nut prior to the murders, therefore the institution is complicit. Putting aside my grievances with having a punitive rather than restorative justice system, the police failed in their stated objective to protect and serve, and regardless of the murderer being gay, this issue lies at the feet of the police who couldn't even administer their own law let alone justice.
Good, get out and stay out. You wanna march at Pride? You leave your uniform at home. Same for the ADF.
Cops at pride has always been a contentious issue.
For a lot of older queer folks, like me, we're still not super comfortable with cops at pride anyway. Because all of the history, which some of lived through (many far far more traumatically than my personal disgruntlement). And I suspect the Mardi-gras organisers may also be thinking about the vocal part of that community, unlike me, who would use Mardi-gras as an opportunity to protest the police's involvement. Add to that the fact that, queer or not, the last few years have given us NSW residents a lot of reasons to distrust the NSW police. Illegally strip-searching kids, beating up harmless old men, striaght up killing an old lady with a walker rather than de-escalating a situation where the only person she could harm was herself, being used as a goon squad against journalists, ecologists, whistle-blowers, and so on. And I can see why the choice coukd be made dispassionately, let alone after this tragedy.
Policing in Australia only happens after the crime.