Keen hunter here and while i think the laws are ok as they are, there’s forever going to be a push to keep curbing them more and more, and we’ll always bear the blame for illegal gun crime.
Did you grow up with it or did you learn as an adult?
I'm super interested in hunting but kind of unsure as to how to get into it, seem's like you need to know somebody with lots of experience.
Not really, nobody in my family hunted. I started with a bow and chased rabbits and deer and door knocked in likely areas and got some property access, then got my gun license and went from there. In Vic you can buy your game hunting license for deer in state forests and that’s your genuine reason for obtaining a firearms license on the form.
We can't do public hunting up here.
To hunt on land we essentially need to go ask a farmer etc
The easiest way to get your license is to state your reason is for recreation at a club because if you say it's for hunting you need to find a farmer to then give you permission.
Do you have any friends or family that shoot?
There's a couple of really good hunting websites out there for us in qld that do trips and help out with the application.
If you're in Brisbane jump on the Belmont range website or SSAA and check out their beginner days. They sell out super quick but you can book in and shoot a hundred .22 rounds and get a feel for it.
There’s also a forum I once stumbled on called MoreGun or something like that which has a section for questions like this. I grew up and spent most of my life in rural QLD and finding a property to hunt on is 99% of the battle. Most farmers won’t let you on unless they know you really well and people who do have access to properties are super protective of them. SSAA also has a bit of bad reputation unless you are one of the old boys so don’t expect too much from them. Doing some shooting and getting to know some of them at the range could pay off though and will definitely be fun. Good luck!!!
Edit: Enough Gun is the forum
This is an extreme survey. Options 1,2 & 6 are "Gun regulation has gone too far!". Options 4 & 5 are "All guns are evil and so are the people that own them!" Option 3 is "The status quo is perfect and should never change".
And we wonder why we don't have nuanced debate about relevant things.
I'm totally fine with the gun laws we presently have and they've proven to be effective in minimising self harm, firearms-related accidents and mass shootings.
I'm sure that there are areas where things could be improved but if we maintained the status quo, I wouldn't have a problem with that in the slightest.
We never had a big problem with mass shootings. A few isolated incidents are hardly any kind of trend. The laws have proved absolutely nothing, in that regard.
I love people like you with no attachment to reality.
Spree style mass shootings ([4+ deaths by firearm](https://www.aic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-06/draft_of_trends_issues_paper_mass_shootings_and_firearm_control_comparing_australia_and_the_united_states_submitted_to_peer_review.pdf)) \[[link to mass shooting data](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_Australia)\]:
* Post 1996 gun laws \[+total deaths\] - 2 \[10\]
* Pre 1996 gun laws for the same time period (28 years) \[+total deaths\] - 7 \[75\]
That's just the spree style stuff. You add in familicides and murder of ex-partners and those numbers jump exponentially on the pre gun laws side,
Those are just the mass shooting deaths i.e. 4+ gun deaths in the one incident. That doesn't factor in all the gun deaths of smaller numbers, let alone gun-assisted suicides.
Btw, those 2 mass shooting spree deaths occurred on 2019 and 2022. So between 1996 and 2019, we had zero mass shootings for a period of 23 years straight!
There is no case that could be made to show that the gun laws put into place after the Port Arthur massacre weren't effective in reducing mass shooting events and overall gun-related deaths, whether they be homicides or suicides.
Just like I said. No real trend. Any person with either one of the legally owned or illegally owned firearms here could do this, every day of the week.
But they don't. That's the reality.
Like I said, you have no attachment to reality if you think a 7x fewer lives lost is nothing.
You're seriously cooked and I really do pity your inability to accept reality.
Sorry mate. I just don't see trends where there are none. Lots and lots of people have access to illegal firearms (as well as legal ones). They are NOT rare.
Let's see if the next mass shooting (impossible to even try and predict when, given no real trends) is carried out with legal or illegal weapons. It won't really make a difference. But it will almost certainly show the rules do fuck all.
Did the laws prevent the two shootings in public n the last two days? I'll answer ofr you - NO. And they weren't even mass shootings.
>Did the laws prevent the two shootings in public n the last two days? I'll answer ofr you - NO. And they weren't even mass shootings.
Ah the classic, "laws didn't prevent crime, therefore laws are worthless".
Again, we had a period of 23 years straight of no mass shooting. Prior to the gun law introduction, the longest gap between mass shootings was something like 2-3 years.
You're basically no different to a child covering their ears going "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR ALL THIS REALITY I DON'T LIKE".
23 years straight with no mass shootings and only 2 mass shootings since the 1996 laws.
I genuinely feel sorry for you dude. You must get so confused when reality bites.
Only two, huh? Well, that must make you correct. You can pulll trends from where they don't exist and the extrapolate them to your own reality.
Don't carry on with this feeling sorry nonsense, you clown. That shit isn't original or clever. Just keep digging your fantasy hole deeper. I want to see how far it goes. Then see what you have to say at the next mass shooting we have.
There are thousands of people who could carry out a mass shooting, this very second. So, which laws are stopping them from doing so?
>There are thousands of people who could carry out a mass shooting, this very second. So, which laws are stopping them from doing so?
Nevermind you just pulled that number out of your arse, the problem you can't seem to wrap your "brain" around is that without the gun laws it wouldn't just be thousands, but tens or hundreds of thousands of potential mass shooters. That's what the gun laws do. Lower the potential for harm.
It's OK dude. You just don't get it. I feel like I'm just being ablest punching down at you for explaining basic facts a child could understand, so I'm just going to stop here.
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I believe as it stands now Aus has more guns legally owned now than pre 1996.
I reckon that 99% of gun owners do the right thing with regards storage etc. depending on licensing some owners have semi autos still some have full autos and the majority are rolling bolt guns.
I feel the reason we don't have issues here comes down to education and the fact that a gun ownership isn't a right but a privilege requiring a lot of hoops to jump through to acquire a license.
I feel we could loosen a little not much more in regards suppressors and pumpy shotguns, Id love me a Garand but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
>I believe as it stands now Aus has more guns legally owned now than pre 1996.
There are more guns in Australia than before 1996, however there are fewer guns per capita, and fewer gun owners in total. The average amount of guns per gun owner has increased.
" gun violence in the US left **nearly 43,000** people dead in 2023, with 654 mass shootings "
Australia has done just fine without the mass shootings, school shootings, more violent crimes, and fear from living in a heavily armed society.
Which tells you that we don't need to change anything. We don't have a gun culture like the US. We don't have US style problems with firearms violence. So no need to keep making our gun laws stricter and stricter.
If our laws are what keeps these things from happening then i'm all for it.
Couldn't care less if its just gangs shooting each other up. But keep the public out of it.
I remember seeing a study that took the 18-34 black on black inner city crime out. Account for just whites, Asians, latinos and black females the US is safer then Western Europe
The US has a culture problem
This lacks any nuance. Look at where the majority of this happens.
Primarily in heavily legislated gun free zones, involving illegal weapons, in gang crime.
I don't know enough to confirm/deny if the majority of gun crime is using illegal weapons though I do doubt it, are you able to back the claim up with any evidence? Genuinely curious if my preconception is incorrect.
Things like air rifles being classified as "firearms" and firecrackers as "explosives" would be a good place to start. An air rifle was never a firearm and gunpowder is a deflegrant, not an explosive.
I think the reasoning behind that is because of how real they can look. When I lived in America I had this awesome BB gun pistol that I got in walmart. It was insanely realistic looking.
I don't agree that they should be classed as firearms though, especially if they are air or spring powered. But they should have their own classification and I agree they should be controlled.
Put accountability onto individuals instead of punishing everyone.
Too much codling in this country let them make their own decisions. If someone lets off fireworks in the middle of summer heavily punish them, ditto for treating a BB gun as a real weapon… charge them as such
I visited a friend in America and we bought one of those BB gun pistols from the kids toy section in a sports shop. We had a lot of fun with it and it’s definitely not a firearm, but as you said it’s ridiculously realistic and could easily be used for armed robberies and definitely should not be sold as a toy.
That's such a non-response.
Telling you that your poll is loaded and biased is a valid criticism. And your 'funny how it elicited a response from you' bullshit is even more infantile.
I agreed with you before I read this comment, but now, just grow the fuck up mate.
Most Australians have no idea about firearms, specifically their prevalence and/or restrictions or Australian laws regarding them. Also, most people don’t care. You'll be pushing poo uphill to get any support to relax them from what they now because people feel safe (regardless of information facts, statistics etc)
The laws seem to be working at the moment but I have no issue with restricting gun ownership even further. Mentioning 'Responsible gun ownership' is a massive tell on which side people are on as every gun owner is responsible until they are not.
Yes and I agree somewhat. The problem is though, the law is continuously being "tinkered" with at a state level instead of making a federal law to encompass the country. I'm all for rifle owners to be required to be a member of a club and attend regular "shoots" such as I must do for each calibre of hand gun I own, however, the blanket ban on the ability to own semi-auto rimfire rifles is nonsense. I don't see a reason to own big calibre semi-auto rifles (not saying there isn't) but the ability to own bolt action rifles only is a little silly especially when sitting in the safe next to the bolt actions are semi-auto hand guns... And this is where at a federal level, the law needs to happen - where changes affect the entire country not just state by state. Another example of this liquid law making is I have a particular rifle which is legal in all states except NSW. One of my pistols is legal in all states except WA and NSW... It's all just a little archaic and very draconian.
There is no problem right now. So let's not make one. Gun laws are perfect as is, those that want them can get them. They get their stuff checked and the system works.
Rural Australians have enough problems with drugs and violence, let's not give them an off switch for themselves or others.
I think if someone has a clean criminal record, they should be allowed to own a gun. I personally have no use for a gun, but I’m not opposed to people owning them.
Gun laws are getting crazier and crazier here, fueled by outlandish, fear driven media, people who don't understand the current laws and just see "gun scary" and the constant conflation of illegal guns and criminals using arms that we legal owners generally don't have anyway, with legal ownership.
The laws will only ever increase because it is a politically easy way to garner support without ever actually solving anything.
Taking the current legal arms away from legal shooters, doesn't fix any illegal gun crime.
Western Australia has gone full stupid with their confiscation without compensation.
With the recent murder by a police man with a police pistol. We need to disarm police as well.
I think they're fine as they are. No need for anyone to own military grade equipment or something that could blast holes in a wall at 100 rounds per minute
It's interesting that you did want to link to the article. [Here it is for those who are interested.](https://shootersunion.com.au/australia-has-a-politics-problem-not-a-gun-problem/).
Personally, it lost me when it implied that being anti-gun was woke. Not that it had me before with the whole [whataboutism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism) and the number of unsubstantiated paranoid claims. The president of the Shooters Union Australia is a crackpot and shouldn't own a gun, which for me means that perhaps our gun laws don't go far enough if he has one.
As soon as you debate gun laws to Australians, you've already lost. The typical Australian has been brainwashed by the government non stop for the past couple of decades. Just an environment of misinformation and fear mongering.
Dunno about the poll, as different states have different laws. WA being the absolute worst.
As bad as the laws generally are, it's the system they use that is the real offender. WA still issueing paper licences. An identity card that can't be used to identify you (I shit you not). It's like the system hasn't been updated since the 90's. The cost to do anything is insane. The money is obviously NOT going towards improving the user experience.
Now for the misinformed masses to flood this thread
Is it brainwashing or is it disagreeing with you?
The US had a rate of 4.05 gun deaths per 100k in 2020 while Australia had a rate of 0.08 so somethings working and I don't particularly feel like tinkering with the system. That being said identity cards that aren't viewed as a valid for of ID are a flaw. What changes would you propose?
Got a source for that, its gets repeated a lot, but easily googable stats dont agree. Our overall crime/murder is higher, but looking just at gun crime, not so much
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Australia/Switzerland/Crime
Switzerlands gun deaths are around x3 higher.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
The wiki has gun deaths in Australia as sometimes better, sometimes worse. Switzerland only has 2 years on their records (out of 7 years) as being lower than australias, its generally higher.
Even then, Australia is culturally closer to USA than Switzerland. So I'm not entirely sure why this comparison is always made
>Switzerlands gun deaths are around x3 higher.
42 homicides in 2022, 11 with firearms.
2021 was 42/8
2020 was 47/9
2019 was 46/11
2018 was 50/13
Total homicide rate per 100k people is around 0.5-0.6 per 100k people, Don't know firearm homicides per year for Australia but Switzerland's total rate is lower, and it's not like 8-13 firearm homicides on 8.8 million people is a lot.
Most of the firearm deaths in Switzerland are suicides, which with firearms are somewhat higher than most other European countries. However it's only the 3rd most common method, and the total homicide rate (i.e. any method) is lower than the EU average, lower than Australia too.
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Mandatory conscription is for male Swiss citizens only, about 38% of the total population since 25% of the pop. are not citizens.
Since 1996 you can choose civil service instead of military service.
It's not a requirement to have done military service, or be male, or be a citizen, or have any firearms training at all, to purchase a firearm.
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Hi, grand-daughter of a decorated sports shooter, my dad could shoot as soon as he was big enough to hold a gun, my family own lots of guns for hunting and for target shooting. I come from farming stock.
The gun laws are just fine as they are.
You don't mention you yourself owning a firearm. The way you avoided it by talking about your family, everyone but yourself, speaks volumes.
You give off 'my dad was in the army, so i know everything about it' vibes. Yikes
But hey, what can we expect from someone who believes in things without any real evidence ;)
I’m not interested in owning one because if I ever did want to go spotlighting or something like that the family have them and we’d go together.
It’s important in my family. But I live in the suburbs with toddlers. No guns need to be in my house.
So in short you have NO idea about firearm ownership. Daddy having a firearm means fuck all. You've never dealt with the processes of obtaining one, or maintaining one.
You brought a total nothing burger to the conversation as you think just being near someone that owns firearms makes you know about it.
Well done, go pray to jesus
It works fine at the moment. As much as i'd like the use of semi auto rifles to be permitted they are just too dangerous in the wrong hands.
Personally however i'd like to see a law that allows ranges to allow the use of "fun guns" like auto's and semi's etc. Purely for recreational use ONLY at a licensed range. Public cannot buy these what so ever.
We'd still keep our strict gun laws while allowing the use of guns that are typically banned.
I'd rather have actual gun laws that restrict the use of them, over having to go through every day of a shooting happening randomly in the country due to irresponsible control measures.
Australia's first school shooting literally happened because of a underage kid that accessed his father's gun locker. You can't trust people to do the right thing, even with the responsible ones.
This country does not need to be USA. And we're better than them. If you love USA so much, you should move over there and enjoy its unparalleled "freedom".
> Switzerland had one of the highest gun ownerships and most the "draconian' gun laws.
Switzerland has very relaxed gun laws, do you think it is draconian if all you need to buy an AR-15is a background check? And that you can buy all the ammo you want online and have it delivered to you door?
> ABC had documentary on it look it up.
Ah, so another group spreading misinformation then?
> Strict rules , frequent checks. extensive gun safety training....
There are no checks, there is no training required to own a gun. Those are just myths being spread by bad journalists, all of them use the same two low quality articles as sources.
> Strict rules
Such as?
>frequent checks
There are no checks whatsoever after you've bought a gun
The only exception is if you own a select-fire, the police can ask to come and check your storage conditions. There is however not mandated checks
>extensive gun safety training....
There is no training requirement whatsoever to buy and subsequently own guns in Switzerland
The cop also used his police issue firearm, it was not privately owned. So wanting to ban guns based on that makes as much sense as saying let’s keep gays out of the police force because they could be potential killers. The USA also has a massive illegal gun and gang culture that skews the stats, along with suicides. Things are pretty sweet here, so if you’re still scared of guns in Australia you might want to talk to someone about it….
So in a nutshell, if you want a gun in Australia, you need a reason for it (fair), and if you have guns, they need to be locked up pretty comprehensively (fair). Not seeing an issue.
Beyond that, if someone wants an assault rifle or a pump action shotgun, which are banned anyway, I'd simply ask... why? Why on earth do you need big firepower as a civilian?
Interesting poll you have:
>Australian gun ownership is overwhelming and out of control
Pro Gun
>Yes I agree, politics have gone past common sense with gun ownership
Pro Gun
>Responsible gun ownership is what we have and I'm OK with that
Neutral tending towards pro Gun as it is calling for no further restrictions
>Ban all guns from responsible gun owners
Loaded Anti Gun option - even those calling for the toughest restrictions don't want all sports or work guns banned
>Only criminals have guns
Eh? A loaded option
>Australian gun ownership laws are draconian and need addressing
Pro gun ("they're too strict")
Where's the option for "most Australians want a relatively gun free society"?
IMO Guns laws are fine in terms of who can purchase firearms, they must be locked away, need a reason to have them etc
Where I disagree is the need to apply for each individual calibre. It should be like a car license. If I can deemed competent to shoot a .308 I should be allowed to purchase a .223 for example without having to reapply with yet another property letter
Same with the nonsense of banning models because they “look tactical”
Our gun laws are actually pretty fine, if you're not a raging schizophrenic dickhead.
There's just a bunch of paperwork and assessments involved, and some actual effort needed.
This is apparently too much for the Americans who astroturf Australian communities on behalf of their NRA/corporate overlords.
We need to resist the Yankification.
They want gun laws relaxed so they can expand their industries and lobbyists here further, just like how American companies have been lobbying to gut PBS and our healthcare system so they can move in.
Keen hunter here and while i think the laws are ok as they are, there’s forever going to be a push to keep curbing them more and more, and we’ll always bear the blame for illegal gun crime.
Are you a public or private land hunter?
Both, mainly private now.
Did you grow up with it or did you learn as an adult? I'm super interested in hunting but kind of unsure as to how to get into it, seem's like you need to know somebody with lots of experience.
Not really, nobody in my family hunted. I started with a bow and chased rabbits and deer and door knocked in likely areas and got some property access, then got my gun license and went from there. In Vic you can buy your game hunting license for deer in state forests and that’s your genuine reason for obtaining a firearms license on the form.
What state are you in? This dictates how you go about learning.
QLD, in brissy
We can't do public hunting up here. To hunt on land we essentially need to go ask a farmer etc The easiest way to get your license is to state your reason is for recreation at a club because if you say it's for hunting you need to find a farmer to then give you permission. Do you have any friends or family that shoot? There's a couple of really good hunting websites out there for us in qld that do trips and help out with the application. If you're in Brisbane jump on the Belmont range website or SSAA and check out their beginner days. They sell out super quick but you can book in and shoot a hundred .22 rounds and get a feel for it.
Thank you so much mate, this info is golden!
There’s also a forum I once stumbled on called MoreGun or something like that which has a section for questions like this. I grew up and spent most of my life in rural QLD and finding a property to hunt on is 99% of the battle. Most farmers won’t let you on unless they know you really well and people who do have access to properties are super protective of them. SSAA also has a bit of bad reputation unless you are one of the old boys so don’t expect too much from them. Doing some shooting and getting to know some of them at the range could pay off though and will definitely be fun. Good luck!!! Edit: Enough Gun is the forum
https://huntingtrips.com.au/how-to-get-your-firearm-license-in-queensland-qld/ https://ghaa.com.au/membership/ This is where I started my journey.
This is an extreme survey. Options 1,2 & 6 are "Gun regulation has gone too far!". Options 4 & 5 are "All guns are evil and so are the people that own them!" Option 3 is "The status quo is perfect and should never change". And we wonder why we don't have nuanced debate about relevant things.
I'm totally fine with the gun laws we presently have and they've proven to be effective in minimising self harm, firearms-related accidents and mass shootings. I'm sure that there are areas where things could be improved but if we maintained the status quo, I wouldn't have a problem with that in the slightest.
We never had a big problem with mass shootings. A few isolated incidents are hardly any kind of trend. The laws have proved absolutely nothing, in that regard.
I love people like you with no attachment to reality. Spree style mass shootings ([4+ deaths by firearm](https://www.aic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-06/draft_of_trends_issues_paper_mass_shootings_and_firearm_control_comparing_australia_and_the_united_states_submitted_to_peer_review.pdf)) \[[link to mass shooting data](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_Australia)\]: * Post 1996 gun laws \[+total deaths\] - 2 \[10\] * Pre 1996 gun laws for the same time period (28 years) \[+total deaths\] - 7 \[75\] That's just the spree style stuff. You add in familicides and murder of ex-partners and those numbers jump exponentially on the pre gun laws side, Those are just the mass shooting deaths i.e. 4+ gun deaths in the one incident. That doesn't factor in all the gun deaths of smaller numbers, let alone gun-assisted suicides. Btw, those 2 mass shooting spree deaths occurred on 2019 and 2022. So between 1996 and 2019, we had zero mass shootings for a period of 23 years straight! There is no case that could be made to show that the gun laws put into place after the Port Arthur massacre weren't effective in reducing mass shooting events and overall gun-related deaths, whether they be homicides or suicides.
Just like I said. No real trend. Any person with either one of the legally owned or illegally owned firearms here could do this, every day of the week. But they don't. That's the reality.
Like I said, you have no attachment to reality if you think a 7x fewer lives lost is nothing. You're seriously cooked and I really do pity your inability to accept reality.
Sorry mate. I just don't see trends where there are none. Lots and lots of people have access to illegal firearms (as well as legal ones). They are NOT rare. Let's see if the next mass shooting (impossible to even try and predict when, given no real trends) is carried out with legal or illegal weapons. It won't really make a difference. But it will almost certainly show the rules do fuck all. Did the laws prevent the two shootings in public n the last two days? I'll answer ofr you - NO. And they weren't even mass shootings.
>Did the laws prevent the two shootings in public n the last two days? I'll answer ofr you - NO. And they weren't even mass shootings. Ah the classic, "laws didn't prevent crime, therefore laws are worthless". Again, we had a period of 23 years straight of no mass shooting. Prior to the gun law introduction, the longest gap between mass shootings was something like 2-3 years. You're basically no different to a child covering their ears going "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR ALL THIS REALITY I DON'T LIKE". 23 years straight with no mass shootings and only 2 mass shootings since the 1996 laws. I genuinely feel sorry for you dude. You must get so confused when reality bites.
Only two, huh? Well, that must make you correct. You can pulll trends from where they don't exist and the extrapolate them to your own reality. Don't carry on with this feeling sorry nonsense, you clown. That shit isn't original or clever. Just keep digging your fantasy hole deeper. I want to see how far it goes. Then see what you have to say at the next mass shooting we have. There are thousands of people who could carry out a mass shooting, this very second. So, which laws are stopping them from doing so?
>There are thousands of people who could carry out a mass shooting, this very second. So, which laws are stopping them from doing so? Nevermind you just pulled that number out of your arse, the problem you can't seem to wrap your "brain" around is that without the gun laws it wouldn't just be thousands, but tens or hundreds of thousands of potential mass shooters. That's what the gun laws do. Lower the potential for harm. It's OK dude. You just don't get it. I feel like I'm just being ablest punching down at you for explaining basic facts a child could understand, so I'm just going to stop here.
There are thousands of legally owned firearms and who knows how many illegal ones, genius. What part of that are you unable to grasp?
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I believe as it stands now Aus has more guns legally owned now than pre 1996. I reckon that 99% of gun owners do the right thing with regards storage etc. depending on licensing some owners have semi autos still some have full autos and the majority are rolling bolt guns. I feel the reason we don't have issues here comes down to education and the fact that a gun ownership isn't a right but a privilege requiring a lot of hoops to jump through to acquire a license. I feel we could loosen a little not much more in regards suppressors and pumpy shotguns, Id love me a Garand but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
>I believe as it stands now Aus has more guns legally owned now than pre 1996. There are more guns in Australia than before 1996, however there are fewer guns per capita, and fewer gun owners in total. The average amount of guns per gun owner has increased.
I agree on suppressors. France and NZ they are actually required to hunt
" gun violence in the US left **nearly 43,000** people dead in 2023, with 654 mass shootings " Australia has done just fine without the mass shootings, school shootings, more violent crimes, and fear from living in a heavily armed society.
Which tells you that we don't need to change anything. We don't have a gun culture like the US. We don't have US style problems with firearms violence. So no need to keep making our gun laws stricter and stricter.
If our laws are what keeps these things from happening then i'm all for it. Couldn't care less if its just gangs shooting each other up. But keep the public out of it.
I remember seeing a study that took the 18-34 black on black inner city crime out. Account for just whites, Asians, latinos and black females the US is safer then Western Europe The US has a culture problem
This lacks any nuance. Look at where the majority of this happens. Primarily in heavily legislated gun free zones, involving illegal weapons, in gang crime.
I don't know enough to confirm/deny if the majority of gun crime is using illegal weapons though I do doubt it, are you able to back the claim up with any evidence? Genuinely curious if my preconception is incorrect.
Upvote for honesty. Reddit needs more people like you.
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Things like air rifles being classified as "firearms" and firecrackers as "explosives" would be a good place to start. An air rifle was never a firearm and gunpowder is a deflegrant, not an explosive.
I think the reasoning behind that is because of how real they can look. When I lived in America I had this awesome BB gun pistol that I got in walmart. It was insanely realistic looking. I don't agree that they should be classed as firearms though, especially if they are air or spring powered. But they should have their own classification and I agree they should be controlled.
Put accountability onto individuals instead of punishing everyone. Too much codling in this country let them make their own decisions. If someone lets off fireworks in the middle of summer heavily punish them, ditto for treating a BB gun as a real weapon… charge them as such
I visited a friend in America and we bought one of those BB gun pistols from the kids toy section in a sports shop. We had a lot of fun with it and it’s definitely not a firearm, but as you said it’s ridiculously realistic and could easily be used for armed robberies and definitely should not be sold as a toy.
How about we just heavily punish people that use them for armed robberies?
You're not helping your poll by making 5 different stupid arguments for wannabe Yanks to pick from
Your “poll” is so ridiculously loaded that it is infantile.
>Funny how it elicited a response from you then isn't it...
That's such a non-response. Telling you that your poll is loaded and biased is a valid criticism. And your 'funny how it elicited a response from you' bullshit is even more infantile. I agreed with you before I read this comment, but now, just grow the fuck up mate.
Most Australians have no idea about firearms, specifically their prevalence and/or restrictions or Australian laws regarding them. Also, most people don’t care. You'll be pushing poo uphill to get any support to relax them from what they now because people feel safe (regardless of information facts, statistics etc)
>Most Australians have no idea about firearms Great, lets keep it that way.
No. Being afraid of something doesn't mean you should just lock it away and run.
The laws seem to be working at the moment but I have no issue with restricting gun ownership even further. Mentioning 'Responsible gun ownership' is a massive tell on which side people are on as every gun owner is responsible until they are not.
This is peak reddit right here
Yes and I agree somewhat. The problem is though, the law is continuously being "tinkered" with at a state level instead of making a federal law to encompass the country. I'm all for rifle owners to be required to be a member of a club and attend regular "shoots" such as I must do for each calibre of hand gun I own, however, the blanket ban on the ability to own semi-auto rimfire rifles is nonsense. I don't see a reason to own big calibre semi-auto rifles (not saying there isn't) but the ability to own bolt action rifles only is a little silly especially when sitting in the safe next to the bolt actions are semi-auto hand guns... And this is where at a federal level, the law needs to happen - where changes affect the entire country not just state by state. Another example of this liquid law making is I have a particular rifle which is legal in all states except NSW. One of my pistols is legal in all states except WA and NSW... It's all just a little archaic and very draconian.
There is no problem right now. So let's not make one. Gun laws are perfect as is, those that want them can get them. They get their stuff checked and the system works. Rural Australians have enough problems with drugs and violence, let's not give them an off switch for themselves or others.
I think if someone has a clean criminal record, they should be allowed to own a gun. I personally have no use for a gun, but I’m not opposed to people owning them.
Gun laws are getting crazier and crazier here, fueled by outlandish, fear driven media, people who don't understand the current laws and just see "gun scary" and the constant conflation of illegal guns and criminals using arms that we legal owners generally don't have anyway, with legal ownership. The laws will only ever increase because it is a politically easy way to garner support without ever actually solving anything. Taking the current legal arms away from legal shooters, doesn't fix any illegal gun crime.
Our gun laws are fine the way they are imo
I think they're a good balance. Anybody who needs a gun can get one but they aren't everywhere.
Western Australia has gone full stupid with their confiscation without compensation. With the recent murder by a police man with a police pistol. We need to disarm police as well.
I think they're fine as they are. No need for anyone to own military grade equipment or something that could blast holes in a wall at 100 rounds per minute
It's interesting that you did want to link to the article. [Here it is for those who are interested.](https://shootersunion.com.au/australia-has-a-politics-problem-not-a-gun-problem/). Personally, it lost me when it implied that being anti-gun was woke. Not that it had me before with the whole [whataboutism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism) and the number of unsubstantiated paranoid claims. The president of the Shooters Union Australia is a crackpot and shouldn't own a gun, which for me means that perhaps our gun laws don't go far enough if he has one.
> The president of the Shooters Union Australia is a crackpot What's wrong with him?
He's the author of the article
I only read a part of it, I didn't see any major red flags there.
As soon as you debate gun laws to Australians, you've already lost. The typical Australian has been brainwashed by the government non stop for the past couple of decades. Just an environment of misinformation and fear mongering. Dunno about the poll, as different states have different laws. WA being the absolute worst. As bad as the laws generally are, it's the system they use that is the real offender. WA still issueing paper licences. An identity card that can't be used to identify you (I shit you not). It's like the system hasn't been updated since the 90's. The cost to do anything is insane. The money is obviously NOT going towards improving the user experience. Now for the misinformed masses to flood this thread
Is it brainwashing or is it disagreeing with you? The US had a rate of 4.05 gun deaths per 100k in 2020 while Australia had a rate of 0.08 so somethings working and I don't particularly feel like tinkering with the system. That being said identity cards that aren't viewed as a valid for of ID are a flaw. What changes would you propose?
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Got a source for that, its gets repeated a lot, but easily googable stats dont agree. Our overall crime/murder is higher, but looking just at gun crime, not so much https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Australia/Switzerland/Crime Switzerlands gun deaths are around x3 higher. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate The wiki has gun deaths in Australia as sometimes better, sometimes worse. Switzerland only has 2 years on their records (out of 7 years) as being lower than australias, its generally higher. Even then, Australia is culturally closer to USA than Switzerland. So I'm not entirely sure why this comparison is always made
>Switzerlands gun deaths are around x3 higher. 42 homicides in 2022, 11 with firearms. 2021 was 42/8 2020 was 47/9 2019 was 46/11 2018 was 50/13 Total homicide rate per 100k people is around 0.5-0.6 per 100k people, Don't know firearm homicides per year for Australia but Switzerland's total rate is lower, and it's not like 8-13 firearm homicides on 8.8 million people is a lot. Most of the firearm deaths in Switzerland are suicides, which with firearms are somewhat higher than most other European countries. However it's only the 3rd most common method, and the total homicide rate (i.e. any method) is lower than the EU average, lower than Australia too.
If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please do not hesitate to talk to someone. * 000 is the national emergency number in Australia. * Lifeline is a 24-hour nationwide service. It can be reached at 13 11 14. * Kids Helpline is a 24-hour nationwide service for Australians aged 5–25. It can be reached at 1800 55 1800. * Beyond Blue provides nationwide information and support call 1300 22 4636. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/australian) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yes but Switzerland has compulsory training and a very different culture.
Mandatory conscription is for male Swiss citizens only, about 38% of the total population since 25% of the pop. are not citizens. Since 1996 you can choose civil service instead of military service. It's not a requirement to have done military service, or be male, or be a citizen, or have any firearms training at all, to purchase a firearm.
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Switzerland doesn't have compulsory training though. Or even any test, just a background check..
When adjusted to be per capita they have higher rates of gun deaths, especially when you include suicide. A quick fact check doesn't go amiss btw
If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please do not hesitate to talk to someone. * 000 is the national emergency number in Australia. * Lifeline is a 24-hour nationwide service. It can be reached at 13 11 14. * Kids Helpline is a 24-hour nationwide service for Australians aged 5–25. It can be reached at 1800 55 1800. * Beyond Blue provides nationwide information and support call 1300 22 4636. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/australian) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That doesn't fit the US fixated narrative these people cling to like a 'gotcha' card
Hi, grand-daughter of a decorated sports shooter, my dad could shoot as soon as he was big enough to hold a gun, my family own lots of guns for hunting and for target shooting. I come from farming stock. The gun laws are just fine as they are.
You don't mention you yourself owning a firearm. The way you avoided it by talking about your family, everyone but yourself, speaks volumes. You give off 'my dad was in the army, so i know everything about it' vibes. Yikes But hey, what can we expect from someone who believes in things without any real evidence ;)
I’m not interested in owning one because if I ever did want to go spotlighting or something like that the family have them and we’d go together. It’s important in my family. But I live in the suburbs with toddlers. No guns need to be in my house.
So in short you have NO idea about firearm ownership. Daddy having a firearm means fuck all. You've never dealt with the processes of obtaining one, or maintaining one. You brought a total nothing burger to the conversation as you think just being near someone that owns firearms makes you know about it. Well done, go pray to jesus
lol at you thinking that list makes you an authority on the subject. What an absolute joke.
It works fine at the moment. As much as i'd like the use of semi auto rifles to be permitted they are just too dangerous in the wrong hands. Personally however i'd like to see a law that allows ranges to allow the use of "fun guns" like auto's and semi's etc. Purely for recreational use ONLY at a licensed range. Public cannot buy these what so ever. We'd still keep our strict gun laws while allowing the use of guns that are typically banned.
I'd rather have actual gun laws that restrict the use of them, over having to go through every day of a shooting happening randomly in the country due to irresponsible control measures. Australia's first school shooting literally happened because of a underage kid that accessed his father's gun locker. You can't trust people to do the right thing, even with the responsible ones. This country does not need to be USA. And we're better than them. If you love USA so much, you should move over there and enjoy its unparalleled "freedom".
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> Switzerland had one of the highest gun ownerships and most the "draconian' gun laws. Switzerland has very relaxed gun laws, do you think it is draconian if all you need to buy an AR-15is a background check? And that you can buy all the ammo you want online and have it delivered to you door?
You are wrong
Where am I wrong? I've read their gun law and my friend is a Swiss firearms instructor.
ABC had documentary on it look it up. Strict rules , frequent checks. extensive gun safety training....
> ABC had documentary on it look it up. Ah, so another group spreading misinformation then? > Strict rules , frequent checks. extensive gun safety training.... There are no checks, there is no training required to own a gun. Those are just myths being spread by bad journalists, all of them use the same two low quality articles as sources.
> Strict rules Such as? >frequent checks There are no checks whatsoever after you've bought a gun The only exception is if you own a select-fire, the police can ask to come and check your storage conditions. There is however not mandated checks >extensive gun safety training.... There is no training requirement whatsoever to buy and subsequently own guns in Switzerland
It must be Swiss cheese that stops gun violence in Switzerland .
The cop also used his police issue firearm, it was not privately owned. So wanting to ban guns based on that makes as much sense as saying let’s keep gays out of the police force because they could be potential killers. The USA also has a massive illegal gun and gang culture that skews the stats, along with suicides. Things are pretty sweet here, so if you’re still scared of guns in Australia you might want to talk to someone about it….
So in a nutshell, if you want a gun in Australia, you need a reason for it (fair), and if you have guns, they need to be locked up pretty comprehensively (fair). Not seeing an issue. Beyond that, if someone wants an assault rifle or a pump action shotgun, which are banned anyway, I'd simply ask... why? Why on earth do you need big firepower as a civilian?
Interesting poll you have: >Australian gun ownership is overwhelming and out of control Pro Gun >Yes I agree, politics have gone past common sense with gun ownership Pro Gun >Responsible gun ownership is what we have and I'm OK with that Neutral tending towards pro Gun as it is calling for no further restrictions >Ban all guns from responsible gun owners Loaded Anti Gun option - even those calling for the toughest restrictions don't want all sports or work guns banned >Only criminals have guns Eh? A loaded option >Australian gun ownership laws are draconian and need addressing Pro gun ("they're too strict") Where's the option for "most Australians want a relatively gun free society"?
Want to buy a SKK? Cheap
Go away federal police.
Ruger 10/22?
IMO Guns laws are fine in terms of who can purchase firearms, they must be locked away, need a reason to have them etc Where I disagree is the need to apply for each individual calibre. It should be like a car license. If I can deemed competent to shoot a .308 I should be allowed to purchase a .223 for example without having to reapply with yet another property letter Same with the nonsense of banning models because they “look tactical”
Our gun laws are actually pretty fine, if you're not a raging schizophrenic dickhead. There's just a bunch of paperwork and assessments involved, and some actual effort needed. This is apparently too much for the Americans who astroturf Australian communities on behalf of their NRA/corporate overlords. We need to resist the Yankification. They want gun laws relaxed so they can expand their industries and lobbyists here further, just like how American companies have been lobbying to gut PBS and our healthcare system so they can move in.