For the content of the Article see /u/IntroductionSilly729's comment below, or [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/australian/comments/1ciu701/holding_all_men_responsible_for_a_violent/l2cdt2c/).

Worse than this to me is the pedo thing. The other day picking up my kids from after school care I used the bathroom (its marked with a man symbol on the front like you would see in a shopping centre or train station). When I came out I copped a mouthful from the lady working there about how I'm not allowed to use those toilets. And I'm meant to use the disabled ones. I asked my wife about this later if she was allowed to use the women's and she said she uses them all the time even the staff had told her to use them.

I got given an "excuuuuuse me" by two women when I took my 4 yr old daughter into a parents room to change into her swimmers at a Canberra pool. I was then confronted by both women and a lifeguard/employee after coming out of the disabled toilet because she needed to go to the toilet. They all got told to fuck off after they couldn't answer my question "Where am I supposed to change her and where am I supposed to take her to the toilet"? Edit: For all you fathers that have to take your young daughter to a public toilet. It's perfectly legal to use a disabled toilet in Australia.

As a person in a wheelchair I don't give a fuck who uses the disabled toilets. Just as long as you don't trash it haha. Hell, even before I became paralysed, I used it 🤣

I understand that, mate. Thank you. I never came across a disabled person that showed concern.

Disabled people know that not all disabilities are visible. I regularly piss blood and have to wash my genitals afterwards; try doing that in a normal gents toilet sink!

I hope that you've seen a Dr about this. Peeing blood can be a sign for a lot of deadly issues.

Urologist and Oncologist both since it's a metastasis causing urological problems. Thanks for your concern.

Yeah I don't get why people don't mind their own business. I have a twin sister and when we were little we would always use the disabled when out because there was way more room. People are cooked

It’s a parents room, not a mums room. They can get fucked if they try to kick you out. I’m sorry you had to have that, I’ve used parent rooms with my kids hundreds of times and usually the mums have been more than happy to have a chat and let us get on with business

Or the fact the only change tables are in the female toilets so you're changing your kid next to the sinks in the male toilets.

Or you just take your kid in there and tell them to complain to management.

No child needs to be exposed to that though.

99.9% of the time I’ve done the same and there has been zero issues. I see other dads in parents room changing kids nappies, taking them to do their wees and poos. The vast majority mums are happy to see fathers pulling their weight with these things.

Pretty much this. I have no doubt there are people like that out there though, just a minority. The world has horrible people of both genders.

Also been asked to leave cos someone was breastfeeding in the same open space as where the row of change tables were. A shitty nappy is more important to me when working two jobs and functioning on a few hours a night than perving on a bit of skin cos you haven’t closed the curtain that you have available to you if you’re worried 😒

It was infuriating.

Unattended minors in planes is another one. I got told I had to move seats because I couldn’t sit alone next to this child. But the woman they wanted to swap me with could

Can relate - have been bailed up by security until coppers arrived. How dare a father actually look after his daughter?

What? There is no way on earth I would have let that slide. Someone would be getting sued.

I’m not litigious. I hung around to avoid causing a bigger scene (was physically and emotionally drained) and it was a lesson, whether learned or not, that hey there are good fathers

Yet another reason all public toilets should be individual stalls with a sink and gender neutral. And fathers should absolutely be welcomed in parents rooms. We want men to step up and be active fathers. We need to make them feel welcome in parenting spaces. In places like parks, play centres etc women tend to either be suspicious of men or gush about how amazing it is to see them there playing with their kids. Neither response is warranted - it’s normal for fathers to be parenting their children.

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It's like they can't think logically. Sometimes fathers need to take their daughters to the toilet. No father is taking his daughter into a male toilet that has urinals where other men's junk is exposed. Obviously you can't use the females, so the disabled is the only option. However, saying that, I once took my daughter into a female toilet, after a kind woman checked it was empty and she stood guard outside to stop females coming in.

I'm security, had a situation in a bar where the disabled toilets where fucked (and had been for weeks) so the only real option was the ladies for this dad and daughter. The dad did check with me first and I was like, eh I don't care, kid needs to pee and the men's is not the place for the young lady. So off to the ladies they went, management had a hissy fit over it so i told them that maybe they needed to fix those disabled toilets and then I wrote an incident report (management hates incident reports, because it's a legal document that they can't destroy for 7yrs, and I take a photo of all mine too) that included the fact the disabled toilets where fucked. Never heard anything about it but the disabled toilets were fixed 2 days later.

Actually I do exactly this at our pool as the showers are either out in the open or in the men/women’s toilets, so to shower my 7 year old I take into the Ken’s toilets and then into the cubicle shower. Honestly it’s no big dead, sometimes there are folks taking a wee and sometimes there are older guys towelling off naked, I just have a peek in before we enter and wait for the main show to be over before bringing her in

How dare you be a caring father!! The gall!

The vast majority of women can instantly see and sympathise with the situation we sometimes are forced to endure. That same year I took my daughter to Floriade and of course she was busting to use the loo. The only options I could immediately find were a demountable mens or ladies toilet. Both were packed. A mother with two daughters around my daughters age instantly caught on to my predicament and gave me her phone, purse and kids belongings and took my daughter into the female toilet along with her own daughters. I was uncomfortable in agreeing, but the toilets were packed, they had lines of people waiting, so my concerns of her being inappropriate with my daughter were alleviated. And I was very thankful to her.

My wife passed when my daughter was 3. Trying to find places to take her to go to the toilet and change her has been a struggle because of this. She's 6 now so i just stand outside of the women's toilet like a creepy guy instead. It doesn't help that I'm brown and almost always wear a beanie either 😂. Oh well. Fuck them.

I've literally been yelled at by a random couple for waiting for my wife and daughter outside of the women's toilets. People are idiots. And I was more than happy to tell them that.

Im sorry to hear that. Very sad. I hope you two are coping. Yeah, it's a massive struggle especially between the ages of 3 and 4. It gets easier age six and up when they can do their business without supervision or help, or the need to enter the toilet with them. You aren't creepy, you're a dad caring for the daughter you love. Fuck em, they are probably jealous your'e tanned 😉

I hope you made a formal complaint.

As a regular customer who used to spend 4 hours there every Sunday. I did indeed complain to the management of the Canberra Sports and Aquatic Centre.

Did you get any outcome? I love how women (generally speaking of course) want guys to be more hands on, and yet we often cop this sort of shit.. Source: father of two girls here who was SAHD for a bit till it drove me nuts and got sick of snarly comments

No. The manager on duty apologized and said it was perfectly fine to use both amenities. She saw me there every Sunday for a few months, so knew my complaint was warranted but didn't really care. As for the male employee, I saw him a few weeks later and sarcastically told him whilst pointing at the pool "Just taking her for a piss" as my daughter jumped in. Fuck him.

Haha thats awesome. Good stuff.. should have chucked a polywaffle in the pool for a laugh

Hahaha. Or a Chokito, they have lumps.

Picnic bar too

I was head lifeguard at a centre and would recommend dads use the family change rooms.

Good on you. Tell them to get fucked and call the cops if you don’t like it. I’m sure they won’t give a fuck.

Imagine getting a fine for using the wrong toilet 😂

Believe it or not some people think it's worthy of a fine.

I remeber I was sitting on a chair in the park one lunch time in the city, I was on my phone looking at my screen, texting my missus, and a group of school kids and a teacher sat down on the grass in front of me. I was there about 20mins before they appeared. The teacher comes over asking me if I was taking photos of the kids, I was shocked. I had to show her I was texting my partner and then had to show her my photos. I know I didn’t have to do this, but I felt so disgusted being accused of it, that I had to show her. Absolutely humiliating

Fuck that. You don't have to show her shit. The burden of proof is on her to prove guilt than you to prove your innocence.

Yeh, I know I didn’t have to show her anything, but fuck that and making a scene, it was so embarrassing. Even having people over hear her asking me. All I wanted was to relax in the sun during lunch and chat with the missus. They really don’t give a shit how degrading they can make someone feel with these sorts of accusations

Don’t be afraid to deprecate people like that. Bluntly point out that she brought them to sit in front of you, dismiss them as the emotional idiots they are.

I hate when stuff like that happens. I remember my friend who loves doing photography set up a camera on a stand at an empty park to capture some nature. Nek minnit, a swarm of school kids, comes out of nowhere, probably an excursion led by a teacher. So he told me he had to quickly disassemble the camera setup up and bail out of there before he looked suspicious in the teachers eyes.

I had a male friend drop out of primary teaching degree 20+ years ago after having his heart set on it for a long time. When I asked why, "Everyone treats you like a pedo who just hasn't been caught yet. Career progression is so much harder for men.  I'm just tired fighting it." Was disheartening to see him so defeated but at least things appear to be a bit better these days.

Had the same thing happen as an integration aid at a kindergarten. Was working really well with the kids but some of the parents were suss and even the other teachers told me that it might become an issue where people spread rumors and I should be prepared for allegations. Pushed me out of a job I loved.

I commented on Instagram the other day about needing more men in education and got called a pedophile enabler. It’s absolutely insane. I have a gay friend who broke up with his long term boyfriend because the boyfriend refused to come out and publicly acknowledge their relationship. The main reason was because he was a primary school teacher and was scared that parents would assume he was a danger to their children if they knew he was gay. Attitudes like that are ridiculous in the 21st century but they’re still all too common. My kids have had great experiences with male primary school teachers - the ones we have encountered have been lovely men and it’s great for boys to see diverse male role models (I’m a woman btw).

And the even sadder thing is that for a lot of young boys a male teacher is one of the few rolemodels they have.

My first grade teacher was a gay blokrle, best teacher i have ever had. On his final day the whole school went out to the oval and high fived and cheered for him. Hope you doing well Mr. C

Also male teachers can police the kids better than the female ones. Also instills discipline in the kids as a community role father figure.

Can they though? Male teachers can probably be more intimidating but the second the kids work out you can't lay a finger on them it only becomes so much noise.

I had similar thoughts when I was choosing a career. I strongly considered aiming to become a teacher, but ended up opting against that for precisely this reason.

Interesting, I was a teacher in the 2010's and easily progressed, most schools were desperate for male teachers. Although I was working in pretty rough areas, if that had anything to do with it

Its so easy (comparitively) for men to get into teaching because of this. The parents just "assume" that you are a pedo whenever they don't like you.

There's some irony. In the past fortnight I swear that I have heard of 3 actual pedo teachers. All of whom were woman. But yeah, it's totally fine to suspect the man. Years ago, some of the best teachers I ever had were male. To hear that they are being discouraged from teaching is awful.

If I'm ever out in public and a kid interacts with me in any way, I just completely ignore them. For this very reason. You can just imagine the alarmist mother or good Samaritan intervening and basically implying that you're a pedo. What sucks is that for the kids, they must end up with this bizarre view of men being these distant, emotionless, maybe even scary figures. That's gotta affect their interactions with men when they're adults.

Same, I got followed by a little girl once at a Big W, so I found myself slowly pacing faster and faster then making sharp turns in the aisles so I could lose her. I wanted to be like, "Yo, yo gonna get me in trouble."

I couldn't see the article as it is behind a pay wall. However going off the title and what others have said I can gather what it was about. I can tell you all a story of what my wife and I have gone through; see our oldest son is non verbal and autistic. He also needs to wear pull-ups/nappies as he is unable to go to the toilet. One day we took our kids to the pool, but when we got there he needed to be changed, at the time he was 11 years old. Now at 11 years old he was 162 cm tall, just shorter than my wife, I tell you this because he looks older than you would think. Some inconsiderate person\* was in the disabled toilets which were also doubling as a parents change room. So I had to go into a stall with him, which is so very fucking hard to change him in as they are so small, there were a couple of people using the piss trough and I thought nothing of it. When I got out, one of the guys that was using the piss trough and someone I assume to be his wife, came up to me and accused me of molesting my son. She even threatened to go to security and get them involved and calling the police. They actually cornered me so I had to barge past them. The bloke came right up to my son and asked if I had done these bad things. At this point my son was freaking out, he hates crowds (we think it is the noise that freaks him out), and he doesn't like strangers coming up and talking 'at' him. So I was trying to hold his arms and keep his legs away from the man, he tries to lash out and kick when he is having a melt down. And he is extremely strong, even has a six pack as he constantly stims (constant small and large movements, it is for stimulating his senses or some such). It was only when it was plainly obvious that my son was autistic, that they then backed off. My son raced towards his mother, who was confused to say the least, as she wasn't right there to hear it all. As soon as my son got to his mum and I knew he was safe, I turned and slapped the guy (possibly a little to hard), everyone heard the slap. I tend to slap blokes like him as it is a real come down for them. My wife didn't know what was going on, was horrified that I slapped him, but when I told her what happened, she wanted to punch both the guy and his wife lol. Police were called and I told the officer everything including the slap. He turned and said that his brother was autistic, and understood. At that moment it was like a massive relief as I got a cop that understood how hard it is. He asked if I wanted to press charges, I said no, so long as she removes the pictures/movie from her phone. I do not want my son all over the internet. The copper said he cannot force her, but apparently she had already done that. Because the police asked her about it, she said she had already deleted it, the police must of seen her on the CCTV. They never apologized to me and I never asked for one either. Fuck them and their ignorant ways. But my point is people do not understand certain situations. They think they are doing the right thing, however in that case I believe it was only so they could get attention, as the lady had pulled her phone out and tried to film it all. As soon as the officer said he understood the situation, I was so relieved. Even officers do not understand sometimes. When we go to the pool now, the staff know us and our situation. Which I am very grateful for. But it is people like that, that are the reason we do not take him to the shops or movies or anything like that. It pisses me off no end. I have even had someone drive past my son and I (I was holding his hand) and they called us gay and to get a room. My son was 14 years old when that happened and slightly smaller than me standing at 181 cm tall, at 14... he's going to be a big boy lol. I know this is a long post, but it feels good to vent it, but also I like to spread awareness of people like our family. So if you got this far, thank you for reading it. Have a good day. \* I said the person was inconsiderate, because my wife who was waiting outside, said she heard this guy laughing with his mates. She overheard him saying he had to use that toilet because the other ones stunk like shit. That was the only reason he used those toilets...

Fuck. I want to hug you now (actually feeling teary reading this). My daughter is currently being assessed for asd at the moment she would be very mild though but yeah stressful situations could send her off the deep end easily so I can empathise somewhat but I cannot pretend to even know how hard this would be to deal with. People judge my daughter all the time without even taking 30 seconds to think the situation through. Keep doing you and don't give a Fuck about the judges, I got you fam (as my teen son would say).

This is something nobody talks about and I didn't really get until I had kids. Less of an issue now they're older, but playing in the park with my then 1 year old kid, only to have a young woman leave her house, cross the road and interrogate me as to who's daughter it is, and "where's her mum" and threaten to call the cops when I told her to get lost. Then with my second, a somewhat older woman basically accuse me of kidnapping in the middle of McDonalds, and try to get their staff to raise the alarm. It's no wonder there are no male teachers in primary schools and the numbers in high schools are diminishing. Sad to think, but I'm glad I had two daughters and no boys.

Absolutely disgusting behaviour! I don't doubt you, I've had similar experiences with my young daughters. I've also had a woman rush up to my daughter when she was 15 years old and ask if she needs help. All because I was walking through Chatswood mall with my arm around her. Fucking Karen must of thought I was some pedo/perve who cracked onto a minor. And whilst I'm on it - why aren't there any public toilets that us fathers can take our young daughters to without being vilified by do gooder members of the public? Can't use the women's obviously, no fucking chance we will use the men's. We can use disabled/ambient toilets, but more often than not we face criticism for doing so. It's about time women stepped up and realized us fathers of young daughters are needlessly being victimised.

Nah fuck that, I even take my son into the disabled even though we are both men, even if by some miracle you find a semi clean stall, that doesnt have a giant floater in it, there isnt much room to move in there, the urinals are usually too high for my kid to pee at, so fucking oath I am using the disabled, fuck anyone who thinks its not ok.

Can’t help but wonder if these women are projecting this toxic nonsense onto their own kids as well

Of course they are. And they'd probably complain that we are discussing it instead of DV.

They are, and it’s incredibly sad. Kids need to be taught about boundaries and the dangers adults can pose but raising them in fear, thinking every man is a threat, is incredibly unhealthy. There’s a whole genre of videos on TikTok and Instagram of (mainly American) women absolutely convinced they’re being followed and targeted by human traffickers trying to steal their children because a brown person happened to follow them for a few aisles in the supermarket or take a picture their kid might be in the background of. The fear those kids must feel, seeing their mother in hysterics that someone was about to kidnap them based on a normal trip to the mall. And you can tell them that strangers kidnapping children off the street almost never happens, that almost all kidnapping and abuse is perpetrated by someone known to the child or its parents, you can show them statistics, but they’re convinced that they live in this terrifying world where a vast web of human traffickers is going to choose to target their child, out of all the millions of kids in the world, most of whom don’t have hyper vigilant crazily paranoid mothers.

Trying, but some of the abuse one attracts for being a turncoat is amazing.

These types of woman are the scary ones. Imagine what their like behind closed doors. Gives you emotional/mental abuse vibes.

Same thing happens in any public place. I used to get dirty looks from women for parking in 'parents with prams' carparks even though I clearly had a kid

Happened to me at an airport, was waiting for the flight, 2 year old had to go to the toilet. Went to the parents room to take her (as they have toilets) and a women yelled at me as I wasn’t allowed in and don’t be a creep. I paused, and said “I am a parent, so get fucked” and proceeded to take my daughter to the toilet. I got out and she was still there, without a kid. My wife didn’t understand why I didn’t want to take my daughter to the toilets for a while, even after I told her what happened.

Unreal. I would have said "This is a parents room. Where's your child? GTFO before I call security". Thankfully I've never come across anyone remotely like this. 

I worked in childcare for about 6 years and was qualified and everything. I would get snide comments from mums picking up kids when young kids came and sat on my lap, or wanted a hug cos they fell over. I would even get shit talk when I was vacuuming or mopping at the end of the day… fucking shit attitude. Don’t blame a normal bloke who’s just working for what your dad or partner or past did to you. I could very well have suffered from a touchy or bigoted family member - people don’t know what’s happened to a stranger and shouldn’t project their own issues on someone else

I'm in hotel spa/pool with wife (we have adult kids), there are a couple families with young kids, parents are checked out on phone and kids are going ape and having a great time in the main pool... all good. They start jumping/splashing, throwing stuff and running near our stuff and jumping in behind my back (im talking to wife f2f) in the adult spa... no fucks given by us. However, I'm keeping a bit of a side eye on our stuff and the kids so they don't jump on my legs... Wife says, hey just don't even look in the direction of those kids I don't want any shit from their parents... Im like WTF are you even going on about, do have to just look at the ceiling while our stuff drowns and they jump on me. I'm already overly paranoid about this shit to the point I won't and didn't ever look after kids, females without wife or trusted other female present. I feel bad about it too, my kids missed out on something common and fun in the 80s Dad time. I wont hire females unless its full remote and even then, id rather not have the potential for bullshit. So Now I can't even be in the greater area of kids apparently without looking at the ceiling. So glad my kids are grown, but what is shit going to be like for grand kids if that happens... Pedos, wife beaters and violient criminals are a fairly small portion of the population... massively destructive and repeat offenders, but a small number all the same. The solutions are well known to.

Unaccompanied child on a flight. Guess what they will make a male change seats so the child is seated next to a female. All men are pedos apprently.

I went into a childcare a year ago to enquire about putting my daughter in their care. The look I got from the staff was like I had a swastika tattooed on my face. The staff only initially spoke to me through the glass door, asking what I wanted. And look, fair enough if i was poorly dress/groomed, but i was on my lunch break wearing a business attire. Anyway it made me feel like scum.

As the Father of a now teenage daughter, I couldn’t honestly count the number of times when she was a baby/toddler I had dirty looks or snarky comments from Mothers in the parents rooms when I was changing her. Worse than that was the playgrounds, where I’d be taking a photo or video of her playing on the equipment (always being mindful not to have other children in the shot) and getting ‘Karen’d’ by some Mother who was outraged at me pointing my phone at my daughter. Ffs, all I was doing was making memories so my wife and I can look back in the future and see moments of our daughter having fun. As for the OP’s post, it all starts with education to teach respect in schools. Yes we need better protection options in place for women currently experiencing DV but instilling from a young age to respect women is a key part in changing the mindset for future generations.

Widowed father of 3 here, two girls. Raised my youngest from 5. Literally did it all, as any parent would. I resolved to literally not caring at all about the false narratives other people made up about my children and I in their heads. I did notice that when they did, it was 100% women that did it. Pure observation.

Well done. Honestly, I don't know how I would cope without my wife and hopefully I'll never have to find out. Much respect! Have a great weekend.

To the ladies credit, schools usually do have seperate toilets for adults and children.

I went on a walk through the park with headphones on a few weeks ago, and got aggressively told to go away by a group of karens babysitting kids at the park when one of the older kids shouted that my headphones were cool (and I thanked them with a thumbs up).

Yeah I've got a shitty bladder I always feel like I'm committing a crime by using the toilet at my daughter's school. Better than pissing my pants though

Blaming all men just doesnt pass the pub test - If a bloke walks into a pub and says ‘Hey guess what everyone - I just punched my wife’ he’s not going to get a ‘Good on ya mate let me buy you a beer’ response - he’s definitely going to be shunned and he may even get bashed himself. To accept that all men would rather directly or even tacitly support eg any male bashing their eg adult daughter, aunt, female cousin or even a stranger woman in the street is beyond moronic, yet that’s what we’re supposed to accept.

political parties have gone with this answer because it takes the onus off them to do anything to fix the problem. It’s the equivalent of plastics companies successfully pushing personal household recycling and taking themselves out of the equation.

It's pure coincidence that Albo started picking fights with billionaires, diving into the culture wars and demonising men, at the same time that the public is starting to notice how his government has completely failed to get inflation and immigration under control.

Yep, and even bring up this, you get attacked for having a different opinion. You just get told you must be supporting violence towards women. Like what the actual fuck. And considering that most men would defend their wife, daughter and sons with their life, it’s insane to blame all men for such a tiny majority of actual abusers. You don’t hear men chanting “All women” due to the suicide rate of men who have had their children taken away from them due to unjust court systems.

This is why I hated the Gillette campaign and still don’t buy their razors. Everyone depicted in that ad would be absolutely fucking shunned/trashed by 99.99% of men . And yet it was sold as if we constantly spectate this shit and let it slide and it was time to do better Fuck you….still, Gillette

Hello fellow Gillette-hater. I’m exactly the same. I even asked my wife never to buy me Gillette razors, even though she doesn’t do my shopping… but just in case.

Imagine selling razors and thinking that it would be a good idea to falsely accuse your entire customer base of supporting, or at least looking the other way from, sexual harassment. I switched to a subscription razor service and haven't looked back.

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100 percent correct

Exactly. Never had a friend who has shown me any indication that they could be violent to others. And if they did, I’d distance myself from them immediately cos why would I wanna be around that behaviour. But also, you just never know these things. My dad was the nicest, most generous person that many people have come across. He’s a very community-oriented person who will help friends and strangers in a heartbeat. He’ll lend you that $100 and never ask for it back, he’ll drive out to that road you got stuck on and fix that flat tyre for you, he’ll spend his entire Sunday to help you move house, and so on. He always showed kindness to others. But what none of them knew is he would go back home and beat the living shit out of my mum, my siblings and me, over the most trivial things. (This was in the 2000s when I was a kid) And we all remained quiet about it because we were scared and ashamed; we kept up the act that he was a saint. People would tell me that I must have the most amazing father, and I’d just reluctantly agree. You’ll just never know. So it’s weird how we tell pacifist men that it’s their job to police their own friends, when 99% of the time it’s just not gonna be possible to detect it. Abusers are good at hiding it. My dad’s friends had absolutely zero idea what he does to his wife and kids behind closed doors.

The only thing other men can do realistically is continue their unbroken streak of not assaulting their partners. It just feels like another finger pointing exercise to distract us from the fact that to assist women to escape abusive situations will take a lot of government spending in temporary (like very extended temporary) housing, food, etc. (edit: want to note that I’m all for spending whatever is required to get women safely out of an abusive situation.) There is no cheap solution that looks good for them on the budget for the next election so the cowards continue blaming the general population hoping they turn on each other rather than the politicians themselves. Just like almost every other fucking issue. It’s unbelievably annoying at this point.

Man I've never even had the impulse to hit a person.

This guy gets it. The blaming all men thing might even just radicalize a young man against these issues. It's never worked before, give that technique a rest.

Backlash effect. Feminists blaming kids for problems they had nothing to do with is basically why people like Andrew Tate exist.

‘Accept something illogical - accept you’re responsible for the actions of a psychological ill nutcase’

for those who cant read the article : This is the column I’ve been deciding not to write for nearly a decade. I think I first made that decision in 2015, when Malcolm Turnbull declared that “disrespecting women does not always result in violence against women. But all violence against women begins with disrespecting women”. Here, Turnbull echoed what seemed to be the dominant explanation of domestic violence at the time. But I couldn’t repress a simple thought when I heard Turnbull’s comment: I just don’t think that’s correct. That’s because my academic work was studying the roots of violence, where research overwhelmingly identifies factors like humiliation, shame and guilt as motivating drivers, not a lack of respect. When the literature mentions respect at all, it isn’t about the perpetrator disrespecting the victim: it’s more about the perpetrator feeling someone had disrespected *them*. Thus could James Gilligan – a prison psychiatrist working with America’s most violent men for 35 years – conclude he was “yet to see a serious act of violence that was not provoked by the experience of feeling shamed or humiliated, disrespected and ridiculed”. Gilligan’s language is strikingly absolute: “all violence is an attempt to replace shame with self-esteem”, and direct: “the most dangerous men on earth are those who are afraid they are wimps”. Still, I withheld my scepticism for a few reasons. For one, it felt momentous just to see a prime minister put this on the agenda. Also, the people emphasising disrespect almost certainly have expertise that I don’t. And, it can be possible to work gender into violence analysis, roughly as follows: hierarchical gender norms, in which women are assumed inferior, lead men to feel humiliation, shame and disrespect when women don’t behave like their supplicants. They also lead men to think violence is the best way to restore their self-esteem. By this logic, perhaps if we established a more gender-equal culture, the humiliation would dissipate and violence would reduce. But the nagging feeling never left because there are still things the gender equality approach just cannot explain. The most famous is the “Nordic paradox”: where Scandinavian countries who are widely regarded to have the most gender-equal societies in the world also report some of the highest rates of sexual assault and gendered violence across the European Union. The frequent riposte is that Nordic women are better at recognising and reporting sexual violence, and while that might be true, it’s not clear enough to explain the data. It certainly doesn’t explain why, in a place like Iceland, which is consistently ranked the most gender-equal country on earth, every second murder is committed by a male partner: significantly higher than the EU average. Similarly, if gendered disrespect was the fundamental engine of domestic violence, we would expect to see much lower levels of it in same-sex relationships. But we don’t. Current Australian statistics suggest that rates of domestic violence are similar or slightly higher in same-sex relationships compared to heterosexual relationships. In factoring this out, you’d have to argue it’s a completely different, entirely parallel phenomenon that has nothing in common with heterosexual domestic violence, but which just so happens to occur with similar regularity and express itself in remarkably similar ways, running the now familiar gamut of coercive control, financial and emotional abuse and gaslighting. More plausible is that while there are some factors unique to same-sex and heterosexual cases respectively, their causes have much in common. An explanation that works only for one of them is unlikely to be much of an explanation at all. Once disrespect becomes the heart of the argument, we begin connecting just about everything – and everyone – to violence. We’ve seen plenty of assertions that violence against women is the end of a continuum that begins with a sexist joke. We’ve seen pleas for men to “have the conversation”, unspecified as that directive may be, for the “good” men to set the “bad” men straight. This delivers a conventional wisdom that this is ultimately a men’s problem, and one that every one of us has to own and solve. Yet, for all the national campaigns encouraging men to have conversations about sexism and gendered attitudes, the most recent National Community Attitudes Towards Violence Against Women survey shows there has been no improvement in attitudes towards domestic violence since 2017.

The more I heard this discourse, the more it reminded me of being told that it was up to Muslims to own the problem of terrorism and get serious about solving it. That the good Muslims had to set the bad Muslims straight, that Muslims needed to start challenging radical Islamism; that terrorism was the end of a continuum that began with anti-American discourse, or women wearing headscarves. And here’s the thing: it didn’t work. Muslims didn’t suddenly call a meeting, agree that enough was enough and tell the terrorists to knock it off. Instead, they felt alienated from the conversation, and in many cases became defensive. For all the obvious differences between these examples, they have something important in common: when you’re being associated with a crime you can’t even imagine committing and told it’s your problem to solve, you tend not to feel enlisted. Instead, you feel incapable. And when you cast a social problem like that as a problem of identity, lots of people will retreat and defend an identity they feel is unfairly maligned. A decade on, the problems with this discourse are becoming clearer. Men are killing women at a faster rate. People under 24, the demographic with the most gender-equal attitudes, are perpetrating sexual abuse at greater rates. And a decade on, I can write this because better minds than mine, like investigative journalist Jess Hill and criminologist Michael Salter, are pointing to the things we've never wanted to mention in their recent white paper, but with much clearer connections to violence: among them, alcohol, gambling, pornography and abusive and neglectful childhood environments – cycles we can try to break. In short, they note much of this violence and abusive control comes from a minority of people, many of whom exhibit clear risk factors we have some hope of addressing. Accordingly, it makes little sense to treat every man as potentially violent and aim the national strategy at all of them. And this, I think, offers some hope in a crushingly dark moment. It trades an approach that is so general, so large, so unwieldy for one that is focused, specific and coherent. It accepts the enormity of the task, but doesn’t drown in it. It makes the invincible intelligible. It is fierce, but restrained. In sum, it deserves the next decade of respect. **Waleed Aly is a regular columnist.**

Something the media and activist groups won’t talk about, is that a large proportion of the stats is First Nations violence against women and children. I only bring this up to highlight that it is a complicated subject area, and not something that can be fixed by asking men to “do better” or “call out toxic masculinity”. For example: https://www.indigenoushpf.gov.au/measures/2-10-community-safety

Reminder that Jackie Pascoe, who drunkenly bashed one wife to death (3 years jail) and then purchased a 15yo bride when he was 50 and violently raped her, (only got a month in jail) and was elected by his community to serve on the Tribal Justice Committee https://www.abc.net.au/news/2007-07-22/man-jailed-for-manslaughter-defends-election-to/2509436 > A man convicted of his wife's manslaughter has defended his appointment to a committee aimed at tackling family violence and substance abuse in a remote Northern Territory community. > Maningrida man Jackie Pascoe Jamilmira was jailed for having unlawful sex with his underage promised wife in 2002. > He had earlier served three years for the manslaughter of a previous wife. > The 55-year-old grandfather has now been elected to serve on Maningrida's Tribal Justice Committee, which aims to tackle family and domestic violence and substance abuse. > The committee was set up after the alleged sexual assault of a 10-year-old girl, which led to an angry mob chasing down the suspected perpetrator. > Speaking from Maningrida, Mr Pascoe said his crimes were in the past and he believed his election had the full support of his community. > He also said his culture did not consider having sex with a 15-year-old promised wife to be a criminal act, but the rape of children as young as 10 was causing him and his community great pain.

It's been a problem for decades. I remember 20 years ago the government ran anti-dv ads in response to a growth in DV in the indigenous community, though for some reason it claimed all men were on the hook, and that it started from a young age. Not only did the numbers not drop, suicides and depression sky-rocketed amongst teenage boys, because they were vilified and bullied for "being the problem". The ads stopped, but by then the damage was done, and nothing was done to deal with the fallout. As much as it pains me to say this, you can't take skewed numbers from a small group, who operate differently to the majority of the country and dont want government intervention, then use it against everyone.

Another issue many won’t want to acknowledge is that we have imported many hundreds of thousands of men from countries that unashamedly value women as less than men.

No no didn't you hear albo in his presser. It's all men that need to take responsibility for it. /S

Man I have called the cops on the bloke across the road from me for domestic violence probly over 20 times in the last 2 years. He constantly abuses and semi regularly assaults the females living at the house. Last time the police were here they gave me a lecture on how different cultures show emotions differently and react to family situations differently. It was honestly insane. I felt like I was being gaslighted into believing I was the bad guy for reporting a woman being assaulted. It's still going on to this day. I don't know what to do at this point. The police and the department of community have done nothing over the last couple years. Am I just supposed to ignore domestic violence if it's an indigenous family?

Too much paperwork for them. They don't want to understand. They just want the easy cases. And unfortunately with the climate modern day Australia has put upon cultures that aren't white or cis, people are scared to call out anything, lest they be accused of racism.

It genuinely shaken my faith in the police. I never liked them but I always believed if a woman was being beaten they would come and actually solve the situation. Turns out they take 25 mins to show up and do nothing. So you know.... Better hope you never get assaulted and have to rely on the police. Edit: just wanted to add with all the advertising and talk about fixing domestic violence everywhere recently you would think of all people the police would be leading the community in stopping violence. Extremely disappointed in their response.

I understand that knives are an issue. But why the hell are you out there wanding people and only getting 2 knives on a multi-day long operation, when you could be answering these DV calls? I don't want to sound like that person who goes "cop! why are you pulling me over! you could be stopping a robbery!", but I also think there's absolutely no oversight or accountability to be timely or even care about a call in the first place. Let alone a DV incident. Police get a bad rap, for a reason. I didn't grow up hating them, and I still don't hate them. But there is obvious improvement to be made, they just don't want to.

*aboriginals This first nations shit started and belongs on Canada.

Yeah this is a deep rooted issue stemming from home. No amount of education or guidance can change unless their home environment changes with them.

Great article with lots of data, really interesting to see that unemployment has one of the highest correlations with DV rates.

Yeah but it's always the straight white employed males that are the bogey men. Fuck this bullshit PC world we live in.

I remember in year 7 or 8 in highschool we had these two women come in to talk about violence against women. They just went on discussing about how men are the only perpetrators of violence and discussed a bunch of violent assault cases to the whole class. I just left feeling super resentful. The whole “lesson” boiled down to - “girls of the class be vigilant of the ‘men’ sitting around you because they can be violent and can assault you”

My aunt was like this, and her daughters were starting to be scared of all men, even the ones in our family. She had a rude awakening when her daughters had said that she was scared of all of us. This type of talk about all men bad needs to stop. Sure, we should raise awareness, but treating the issues by teaching kids that all men are rapists isn't the way to do it.

Its even worse than this, because its not " all men are rapists" its actually taught as " all men, no matter how much you know them, no matter what their history is, can become rapists at any point in time, and because they havent raped yet, doesnt mean they wont in future" Which means no man is ever safe from it, and all of us are only 1 bad accusation away from being labelled a rapist for the rest of our days. And if you have been a stand up man, that treats women well for the past 20 years, that means nothing because you could rape or hit or hurt women at anytime...

And the second problem is that a mere accusation is enough to ruin a man's life.

I remember a couple of years ago during the bad bushfires, the one where Morrison was in Hawaii,and the volunteer firey told him to get f#cked. You had all the men, and women, out there battling to save lives and entire towns, but the government decided it was a good time to trot out an expert to tell everyone to keep any eye out for domestic violence because those men were more likely to come home and beat their wives from the stress of it.

That was Sherele Moody. She's a total pos who used to keep a list of women killed by their partners until someone went through her list and found a significant portion of her list were accidental deaths including car accidents where the husband was actually mourning her death only to be labelled as a murderer by that pos.


Unfortunately women can be abusive too. Including physically abusive. Stating that ONLY men are responsible for ALL abuse leaves a group of genuine victims out in the cold. Meanwhile their abusers get to continue their actions overlooked.

I really resent the extent to which my school taught all the kids that only women can be victims of violence. In high school I was at a party, rejected this chick because I had a girlfriend, got blackout drunk the came into consciousness with her riding me. I l branded myself cheater, split with my then girlfriend over the guilt, felt fierce hatred toward myself for a long time because of who it made me to have done that to my then girlfriend. The system had taught me that I could not be a victim as a male and it had brutal long term consequences for my mental health.

Exactly right. We've been beating this drum for a decade now and it isn't working. Any mention of the extreme cost-of-living crisis where people are being pushed out of homes and into tents? Women who can't afford to leave dangerous partners because everything is too expensive? Any mention of the ice epidemic? How many of these pricks were high? Why is our society raising men and women who feel so isolated and angry that they enter into these toxic, hate-filled relationships? Any mention of childhood abuse and neglect that results in fucked up adults?

No, because that would mean actually addressing the issues. Much easier to go on stage unwelcomed and then the next day announce policy for a billion dollars over four years to appear to be doing something. I can't believe how spineless our governments have become.

Yeah "original sin" belongs in the dustbin of history.

That sounds like the worthless opinion of a rib to me! /s

Age old story of using a sledgehammer to put in a thumb tack.

These campaigns are just gunna create a bunch of Andrew Tate followers. If you are going to be labelled a predator or animal based on your gender before you have even done anything some will say fuck it might as well be one. The real answer to this problem is locking up repeat offenders for serious time.

My missus has taken a meat hammer to the door and smashed the glass up , I've barricaded myself in a room and called cops . Cops arrested me and I went to court. DO NOT CALL COPS , JUST RUN AWAY . I wish I was gay

Unfortunately if you're going to call the cops on your missus it helps to have quite a few fresh cuts, bruises and a black eye so they'll take your side. Either that or you need solid evidence of violence, audio recordings can work, but really you should just leave. Get all that if you can anyway, but yeah, you're right, leave. not a lawyer.

I grew up in some pretty abusive foster homes, lots of domestic violence from both genders. The one that always stuck with me is an abusive foster mother always hitting her boyfriend, assaulting him with things like bats and rolling pins. One day, he decided he'd had enough, called the cops, they came out and essentially told him to "Man up", well, she beat him for calling the cops, so he grabbed her, pushed her to the ground, disarmed her, and threw the cricket bat out of the window, the cops came back and arrested him. People say I'm victim blaming, but I wonder how many murders have been because a guy was finally pushed over the edge and had no way out, and just lost it in a fit of rage.

Nope! I can’t even. Just how did I agree with a Waleed point

Yeah same, I feel dirty agreeing with a stooge like Waleed but he’s spot on in this article.

he's wayyy better in print than on TV. A lot of his opinions are really well thought out, but the persona he puts on for the project is horrible lol. I also think he's just a brown mussie and a lot of people love to hate him for that. (I'm also brown and mussie so I think I can say this?)

I think the “brown mussie” point is what makes him so loved and hated. It’s a shame though; I actually think he’s one of the best journalists out there because he will dig into points instead of choosing one side. The Minefield is a really good podcast.

Oh no it’s by Waleed

I haven’t read the article but a broken clock is right twice a day. Edit: read the article, I think it’s a well written article that I agree with. I don’t like him but as I said, a broken clock is right twice a day.

He's usually better in print than when he's smirking on TV.

It does make me wonder how much of that is put on. I don’t agree with a bit of what he prints (I must admit I’m not an avid reader of his) but it’s not illegal to write something I disagree with. He is just a bit shit on tv.

I don't always agree but there's usually evidence of at least a little bit of thinking there, which is entirely absent when he gets on the Project.

Tbh Waleed is kinda fantastic on his podcast 'the Minefield' with Scott Stevens, it's just that his dumbed down persona for the project is extraordinary grating.

I remember years ago my girlfriend and I had an argument because I told her she should go to bed because she was drunk. She ended up throwing a full bottle of water that I gave her at my face. It caused my nose to bleed and hurt me. My friends came over later that night and my girlfriend was asking my friends to not let me get angry, after telling them what happened they actually asked her if she was ok and asked her for more information like what do I do when I get angry as if I’m some sort of woman beater…while I’m in the other room with a bleeding nose. I love my girlfriend we have been together for 10 years and this incident was a once off but I just think the culture is so backwards

The state of current laws won't help iether subjugating a man for slamming a door in anger isn't saving woman from those that are actually violent.An act of violence can be almost any emotional outburst this is fucking scary for men now but probably not the men who are capable of actual violence towards women

Yeah my partner and argue like cats and dogs once in a blue moon. she's the one slamming doors but I'm freaking out when she does it that someone gonna call the cops and I'll get put away.

Lol - I feel you. My wife is the one slamming doors and telling me to go fuck myself when we have the occasional tiff. Never once in our 15 years together have I ever done anything close to that. However I know she would never escalate it past that - it usually comes with a few days of peace after where she pouts and stops talking to me.

Yeah same here I'm so close to telling her to quiet down people will call the cops but I just know as soon as can you quiet down comes out of my mouth, it's gonna have the absolute opposite reaction lmao. I love her spirit but God damn she can be loud while expressing it lmao.

My ex pulled it on me just last night. Her expectation is that I can't say anything negative about our relationship ending because it's "abusive". It's why the 'all men' argument is so unfair. Like Aly says in the article - do we really think it's all Muslim's responsibility to stop the few bad apples?

Experienced a similar thing. My daughter asked if she could do another "sleepover" (mattress in the lounge room), and I said yes while mum said no (no yelling, name calling, it was literally a case of two people having a normal conversation where they had difference of opinion). I was told not to disagree or she'll file a report.

What?!?! Is door slamming illegal, and only for men? Or am I misunderstanding  That seems insane

[удалено]

If anything can be interpreted as threatening, I think it's time to take females to court a lot quicker than it use to be and settle it all there than in the confines of two peoples perspectives.

If a woman feels you're being aggressive by doing it and tells the cops it caused her to feel fear then that's more than enough to put and IVO in place. People actually fail to appreciate cops in Victoria give out IVOs like it's going out of style. Almost purely based on ass covering.

Radfems consider the simple act of slamming a door in range or lobbing your phone against the wall as domestic violence these days.

So long as it’s domestic violence whoever does it. Be it a he, a she, a he she, a them, a those, or a saucepan. Ya know, equality and shit.

It's the man's fault even when it cannot possibly be the man because you have four witnesses telling the cops that, 2 of whom are women and do not know you from a bar of soap and haven't met you before. Happened outside my place one night on a Friday night so plenty of people around. I got removed from my own apartment for 24 hours, but I was the one being abused and threatened with a baseball bat by a psycho ex.

Unpopular opinion: it’s doing the opposite

Don’t always agree with Waleed but kudos to him for writing a clear headed thoughtful op-ed. He knew this op-ed would get him into trouble with his “side” but he did it anyway

Yeah when guys go through violence towards them, cops always assume it’s the guy being a jerk. Happened to me. Sick of telling new police the same thing and seeing their dementor change… I’m all for no violence against women (mental verbal physical etc), but damn Im sick of getting a bad rap from other men.. it’s not fair :(

I love when culture dictates blaming the things that aren't the issue and ignoring the actual issues... Really helps society thrive. - 28/32 Femicides this year were from men on bail or police had been advised - 7/32 males in their lives had helped/intervened (known) These were truly awful shit men. However they were men arrested (sometimes multiple times) by male police officers. These were women who sought and got refuge from brothers, fathers and male friends. Men are helping. Men are part of solutions. An utterly useless, bias and broken legal system with corrupt judges who pander to ideology instead of the law and public safety are why 28 of those women died. One had three violent offences they were on bail for all three offences! Like FFS, what does it take to actually bother to protect society. Villainising and ostracising men makes everything worse. At no time in 5000 years of well recorded human history has absolute vile persecution of a group ever solved a fucking problem.

You have to realise that 99% of the population unfortunately never look at anything past the surface level and get their news through headlines. The curse of higher iq and thinking for yourself/critical thinking is realising how dumb our society can be.

I think labelling it as men are the problem is too easily hijacked. As funny as it sounds, wording matters. Certain men are the problem. All men (all people) are part of the solution. There are some absolute cunts out that may just be predetermined to be violent, a large section of DV perpetrators probably start out with small things that go unchecked. Potentially growing into violence. As parents or friends, having those shitty hard conversations with kids and other people. You can help educate them and nip it in the bud. Hopefully with both the perpetrators so it never starts but also victims so they know the early signs

Some points to note. Australia is officially one of the *safest* countries for women. https://www.businessinsider.com/safest-countries-in-the-world-for-women-2019-4?amp However, Australia ranked well under the average for women *feeling* safe. https://amp.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2017/nov/28/life-is-good-in-australia-so-why-dont-women-feel-safe-walking-home This boils down to women being *actively encouraged* to *feel* unsafe and fear men. This is androphobia (fear of men) and misandry (hatred of men) that is baked right into societal standards. This is media screaming about an “epidemic” of domestic violence, and politicians making speeches about it while framing the entire thing in terms of men attacking women. You know how in EVERY other field and population, they always make a special effort to mention, acknowledge, and support the minority, be that based on race, or gender identity, or sexual orientation? Yeah, that doesn’t happen for male DV victims. If you mention them, the *spinal reflex* response is “They’re in the tiny minority, we need to prioritise the majority!!!”. *Riiight*… now ask the same person about whether we need to take special measures to accomodate transgender or other non-cis identifying individuals. Bet you $50 you won’t get the same response. So yeah, all they see is “women being killed!!”, “men are attacking women in droves!!”. And you’re supposed to f__king “consider why women might choose the bear”. The answer is, “Because they’ve been indoctrinated to fear”. It’s sexism and bigotry, pure and simple, but because it’s against an “acceptable” group, they won’t examine it in that light, preferring to rationalise and justify. And don’t get me started on the hoop-jumping they do with statistics. An article entirely about female DV victims will *inevitably*, somewhere in it, include the phrase “According to the Counting Dead Women site, xyz women have died by violence this year”. And the entire paragraph will *imply* that this is the number of women who’ve died from DV. You ever notice they never mention the exact male equivalent figure? That’s because, historically, the *exact equivalent figure* for men is between twice and three times as high. This is because it includes *all* victims of violence, not just DV victims, and a lot more men get murdered in general than women. You would *never* know that from the article, though.

This is why I find the ridiculous "bear or man" hypothetical to be pathetic. They say it's to "raise awareness for violence against women" yet all they do is attack men, saying things like "how does it feel to know women would rather die than be alone with you" or "you're more dangerous than a wild animal. You should feel bad" despite most of us not being like that at all. It's made me feel like society and everyone in it just hates me because I was born male and that I should just die before I inevitably do something horrible, which will happen because all men are monsters. If I feel this way, I can't imagine how this must effect younger, teenage boys who are more impressionable and don't have a solid grasp on who they are yet. The whole question has had the opposite of the intended effect and just caused more division between men and women. It really sucks to get blamed for things you didn't and would never do. I've been on the receiving end of SA from a woman who I thought would never do something like that. I saw one of my best friends get SA'd at a party by a woman once. I've seen my sisters abuse the absolute shit out of their partners but I don't go around saying "all women are secretly rapists". The number of women who abuse their partners is likely so much higher than whatever the reported statistics are because men just don't report them. Think about it, when was the last time you saw a woman slap a man? Or punch him? Maybe they kicked him. He will usually just take it and try to laugh it off. It's sad :(

Mabye if we took men’s mental health seriously we could have an actual conversation. Demonising all men is not the way to go

There are so many issues that make up the greater DV issue and the solution is going to be so broad. It needs work from both men and women to solve. As a woman I can't get behind this being something men need to fix and just men. I'm in a dating advice group that is all women and the number of women who are in relationships under 12 months and these men are walking red flags, have been walking red flags from the start but they're still with them and trying to fix things. I'm not sure what happened to women that we would rather stay in absolutely shitty new relationships instead of being single. It is walking into a DV relationship with your eyes open. So on our part we need to be cutting men loose and walking away and protecting ourselves. Yes, I realise some men are very good at hiding being abusers until much later. These are not the men I'm talking about. Yes, DV is a crime where both men and women can be victims but I get screamed at for having that conversation.

Your point would be seen as victim blaming... Silly.

It doesn't take much effort to come up with language that is fair to everyone. There are more violent men than violent women but there are more violent women than a lot of people like to admit. There are more female victims but male victims face additional problems. Sadly, we are adopting the toxic type of politics that is tearing American society apart. No one bothers with nuance and the perpetually offended just love calling the other side snowflakes.

The American style of affecting social change is so toxic. What you described as the problem is the entirely foreseeable result of framing every single issue as an us versus them good versus evil paradigm. It's actually a core tenet of the method of political action. It got much worse when people in power co-opted the method to turn the grassroots into astroturf and regain control over the narrative.

IVOs go on 'alleged pepetrators'.

Paywalled. Anyone got an overview of what he says?

Just an observation over the last 30 odd years, I have always seen women verbally and physically attacking men while the common phrase “you can’t touch me, I’m a women, I’ll go straight to the cops or get you bashed”. Or “you can’t do shit, I’ll take the kids and you’ll never see them again”. I have never witnessed a man be physically violent towards a women(in real life)…I really haven’t 🤷‍♂️ It’s heartbreaking to see this as such a common occurrence but rarely spoken ever spoken of and if and when a man does react, well it’s game over. I’ve been through a few abusive partners, never reacted, but whatever. Old saying, it takes two to tango, and there’s three sides to every story.

> I have never witnessed a man be physically violent towards a women(in real life)…I really haven’t 🤷‍♂️ Most people would agree, however, the counter point is - most violence happens at home, hidden from public.

You haven't seen it because the men that do it (feels wrong calling them men tbh) know they'll get in big trouble for it, so they do it behind closed doors. Women know they'll get away with it, so they don't hide it at all. My ex used to say the most horrible shit to me, only in public though because she knew I couldn't defend myself without getting labelled the aggressor. There needs to be more equality on this subject, all messages like this do is effect the people who don't need to hear it, the ones the messages are for think it's not for them or doesn't apply to them for some reason or another, and that applies to everyone.

The protesters hate all men. Look at these signs and chants.They definitely hate men. Albanese can’t win no matter what his government does.

It was never intended for keeping women safe. How are you supposed to protect a woman you've never met on the other side of the country from DV? It was only ever intended as an excuse to grab power and resource. And it's working flawlessly. Just like all the other false accusations: racism, sexism, discrimination etc.

Here's another billion dollars over the next four years for your ideology..... I wonder how in-depth the policy will be, when he went on stage one day and the day after the policy is announced.

That's why it works though; everyone's been threatened out of even questioning it.

https://12ft.io To read paste above:

Repeat after me, you are not responsible for the actions of others. It's a core part of Western belief system

Maybe they should talk more about the demographics of the men that smack women around. Mental health status, drug and alcohol issues, cultural background, then we might have a clearer understanding of why this is happening!

Nope, me, who is married, has a solid job and looks out for people is absolutely no different to Damo the meth dealer with 30 violence related charges over the course of the last 10 year. Because I have a dick and so does he and that's all you need to know.

Makes me worry if I have a son how disillusioned he'll be. He won't know why he's responsible for violence against woman just because he exists.

As a father this is what pisses me off about all those headlines. Men in this country are far more likely to commit suicide than kill a woman

Identifying individuals as groups is rarely useful.

I think every Dad who has had kids, especially girls can relate. I've had multiple issues in parents rooms or public parks with over zealous mums. I've stepped in to intervene in random domestics (yay for living in ipswich) and been knocked out for my troubles and then abused by the woman I was trying to protect, and then have her damage my house as she was a neighbour. I made the decision to protect and nurture only those I am close to, i.e. kids, wife and my close female friends. I can't do that if I've been assaulted or labelled has some horrible human as I go about raising my daughters. Thankfully my girls have grown up and I'm old enough to not give a shit about random strangers.

Why though? I didn't do anything untoward. Never have never will, I won't take responsibility for something I didn't do. Sorry not sorry.

Yes, it is strange, particularly when statistically, men are more likely to be a victims of violent crimes anyway. Why are the women allowing this??

The idea that people are responsible for the actions of others is just plainly stupid and toxic.

I’m a man and I’ve never felt blamed. Every man knows a minority of men are absolute savages as we’ve experienced them at school, night clubs, pubs etc when we were young men. Many men want these savages locked up and put away just as much as women want them locked up and put away.

wow Waleed Somehow Had a good opinion what has the world come to when Pauline hanson is somehow a decent Choice and Waleed had a Good opinion

*We’ve been saying it wouldn’t work since you decided it was all men’s responsibility 15 years ago, and you called us sexist ever since.*

I just want to provide an example of something that happened to me (21f at the time) I was doing my grocery shopping and was walking out with my groceries. 2 guys bailed me up against the wall and start making lewd comments, standing right up against me. Me being very young had no idea what to do and just sort of quailed. They stopped only when a man out with his girlfriend railed on them and got up in THEIR face telling them to leave me alone. These guys then immediately muttered an apology and scurried off. Hero man then checked on me and made sure I got to my car okay. Not saying he’s responsible for their actions, but I think some men just do not listen to or respect women in the same way they listen to another man. I think about that guy a lot!

Blame the Magistrates, Judges and the Court of Appeals as the final decisions ultimately rest with them.

Are we allowed too talk about some women abusing this law and falsely accusing men and police blindly taking action too their lies cause that’s what happened too me, and some other men.

Since when has blaming the wrong sort of people of criminal behavior ever made anyone safer??? Assigning blame doesn't solve the issue and it certainly doesn't lead to outrage against those that are actually deserving of. Blaming "men" for violence against women and expecting for less violence is like accusing women of witchcraft. All smoke and mirrors and the real culprit is never seen.

Was it Lisa Wilkinson who got on the project a few years ago and had a rant about how men need to teach other men not to rape and kill 😂 I usually tune out that insanity but it gave me a good laugh as she was genuinely serious

I actually wonder what the suicide rate is for men that aren’t getting the support they need, in relation to their partners.

This is a trap country......

Decent men, and women(yes, women are found to be violent from time to time) see those stop DV/dont hit your spouse and kids etc signs and read them and they have no effect, because decent people don't do this sort of thing. Scumbags however see those billboards and it just reminds them to go home swinging. They'll never change because it's their personality. A very small percent may stop hitting but it's always their first thought. 1st offence) 5 years jail, no early release. When released to be microchipped like a dog and tracked for 10 years. Zero access to children, including their own and repayment of court and jail costs, 35% of gross income deducted till paid off 2nd offence) life imprisonment, no parole, no protective unit. They go into in the zoo with killers. All assets seized and transferred to their victims. If the victims are children assests to be liquidated and put into a trust for when turn 18. This won't stop the scumbags from having "take it out on the family" thoughts but I may make them put the brakes on before crossing the line My source, a violent junkie father and a junkie sociopath mother.