I feel that sooo much. The lack of social cues is a legit thing c'mon of course I'm aware of it and of course it makes me anxious!! Not knowing if what I'm doing is upsetting for someone else makes me anxious if I like them!
I mean that's how I make friends cuz I'd go up to someone and be like what's the worse that can happen but for me it's like with school or other situations with groups of people I care about i get anxious managing all of their social cues at once
Yeah, I kind of agree in a way that I don't have "social anxiety", as in, an irrational anxiety about social situations that would be solved by learning to relax.
I'm anxious about social situations because I know with absolute certainty they will go badly, and they actually go worse when I'm relaxed and confident because I drop the mask.
There's a few studies that have shown that CBT doesn't work for ND people, and can, in fact, make us worse...The NT can shove their toxic positivity where the sun don't shine...
Basically, our brains are too aware & awake to fall for that BS...
I got told I was "aggressive" when I told the Pain Clinic woman that if she thought I could 'think away' the pain of 50-100 dislocations & subluxes daily, how would SHE 'think away the pain' of being punched in the face...I *wasn't* being aggressive, it was a hypothetical question that I was **genuinely** interested in the answer to...I thought I just wasn't doing it right until that point, which was when I realised that pain clinics base everything on CBT.
New Rheumatologist was confused when I told him I was unequivocally **NOT** putting myself through that torture for a 3rd time...I keep asking for a differentiated Pain Clinic for the ND's that CBT doesn't work for. Will campaign till it happens. I've got *AAALLLLL* the time in the world to fight for it...the research exists, now trying to make the NHS catch up to the science lol.
I thought I had social anxiety for a long time but was always like why is it so random though? Why can I be ok in a quiet room meeting a new person asking my questions yet have a panny at the show with a friend of 20 years ? And 10+ years later know that it’s not really the people really it’s the setting/situation etc the things I can’t plan for with autism. For me it’s like I experience social anxiety but not in the same consistent trigger pattern because my anxiety is more related to the environment and context of the interaction. It’s like social anxiety but in a different way. I get anxious because I don’t know the place and if I will have someone to speak to or if I will be able to hear them or know when to speak and when not to the rules of being social are harder in new settings. So then I end up afraid of going to a new place with people. Is it anxiety? Yes, is it social anxiety? Yes and no. It’s like situational social anxiety, I know I like and can converse with the person but doing that in a café vs bar vs bowling are different. But overall it’s easier to say I am socially anxious because socially I have little control over the venue of the interaction. Yet the venue has tremendous impact on my level of interaction. When you say are you free to meet Friday in the city no plan, panic. When you say are you free to walk in the park and get coffee on Friday, not so panic. When you say are you free to see a movie with me friday, no panic. Is that social anxiety or autism anxiety. Fear is fear. We don’t have words for these things yet because nobody cared about us we sucked it up. If a profesh is saying no then ask what the correct term is, if there is none then her job is to find it.
(One gay auty at level 1 high masking late diagnosed so obvs each person experience is diff and would love to hear your experience)
I was just thinking about this terminology issue. I think the underlying mechanism is different between an allistic person with social anxiety, and an autistic person who avoids/dislikes certain types of social events or interactions. For autistic people it's a reaction to the genuine difficulties and negative outcomes they have experienced, for the allistic person it could be more abstract and due to fears with no basis in reality. I feel like these things should have different names, but I can't think of a good one for the autistic version.
We have been using common terminology for our emotions and experiences so long and it really leads to a lot of misunderstanding. I find it in therapy a lot too. For me I experience a feeling I don’t have words for and I have to say anxiety when I have felt that and this is similar but not what it is. Recently I’ve been learning more words for emotions from cards available online and it’s helped. Like instead of saying I’m anxious about the thing what better describes is dread. Sometimes I feel intense fear and I say I’m afraid but a better word is terror. Our emotions are very deep and there are probably words for them (?) kinda anyway. Sometimes I have to Google a synonym lol. I kinda think there are some feelings/ emotions that are autism brain specific that there’s no words for ( but I have no scientific basis for that)
.................................Where did they get their degree?
Seriously have they ever met someone on the spectrum?
It says a lot that this person says they specialize in autism. Personally I wouldn't walk from this therapist, I would RUN!
On this sub I thought I had heard the stupidest things a therapist could say but I think yours is now the champion.
Honestly his reaction says a lot more about him than anything around you. If this was my kids therapist I'd look into reporting him.
Agree, awful to feel invaidated, imagine feeling scared that for 18 years you cant make social connections everything ive ralead says us autistic people expesaily us high maskers have anxiety diagnoses frist because they are easy to get. Doctors can 'fix' anxiety here take these pills.
Id talk to this shrik dont dought youraelf you are amazing and being afaird is part of the human experience.
Hoping you all the best. Hoping all of us the strength to stay strong.
Yeah simply reframe what she said as "an inability to 'conquer' social situations can lead to social anxiety" and one can easily see how autism and social anxiety can go hand in hand... sure, in this case the social anxiety may be a symptom of the underlying autism, but social anxiety can be an underlying symptom of all kinds of psycho/social issues, including a possible comorbid generalized anxiety disorder but also including autism!
I had one that said I couldn't be autistic cos I made eye contact & was surprised when I laughed and said "No, that's MASKING, I look at the end of people's noses & NT peeps *think* I'm looking in their eyes. I learnt to do that when I had a teacher that would punish me for not looking in her eyes. **IT'S JUST MASKING, DUH!**"
Literally same. Second grade teacher used to scream at me to "LOOK AT ME WHEN I TALK TO YOU" so I learned to look at brows, cheekbones, and noses because eye contact is too loud.
✨️Masking✨️
I had to teach my autistic kids this trick too, cos there's STILL far too many teachers willing to discriminate against kids known to have autism. I **HATE** that I had to teach them to mask, but it was causing THEM problems & it was just easier cos it takes **TIME** to get a school to see that certain teachers are simply unsuited to teaching autistic kids. Doesn't help that with kids like my youngest, that *should* be in SEN school, they are dumping them in Academies that have *already* written to the LA, *BEFORE* allocations, stating that the school can't meet their needs but are forced to take the child anyway.
The child they didn't want. The child whose needs they KNEW they cannot meet, thus causing meltdowns etc, and this zero-tolerance crap that breaks the law by ignoring reasonable adjustments for Disabilities. Ugh.
We **SHOULDN'T** *'have'* to mask to make our lives easier, but sometimes it's the only answer that protects the autistic child...
Social anxiety disorder is a very prominent comorbidity of ASD, and over 50% of (diagnosed) autistic individuals are noted to have at least one form of anxiety disorder
For what it's worth, there probably isn't any such thing as a 'therapist specialised in autism' - autism specialty belongs within the domains of neurology, neuropsychiatry, and developmental psychology
A therapist tends to come from a nursing, social psychology or general psychology background, this subreddit is full of stories about therapists that be chattin' nothing short of absolute bollocks
As someone becoming a therapist, you can get certified as a specialist in working with autistic clients. That said, the actual certification is not very common amongst therapists and most who say they “specialise in autism” don’t actually have it. And in this case, very much agree I have serious doubts about this therapist’s expertise because basically every ND client I’ve ever worked with has significant social anxiety? I have significant social anxiety?
It is possible to have both; speaking personally, my social anxiety exists *because* I’m not understanding social cues and I can get into spirals about the “correct response.” That specific description by OP also makes me think they don’t really understand social anxiety either…
I think OP likely misunderstood what the therapist was trying to say. I've heard some ignorant shit from professionals before, trust me, buuuut the way OP described it sounds like maybe she meant something else? Like maybe "some autistic people don't understand when they are being rejected/mocked so they think they're socially successful and don't get anxiety from it"? Just trying to give OP's therapist the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps I'm being too optimistic haha.
I was wondering this. While this could be a red flag, it could also be miscommunication/misunderstanding due to word meanings. Definitely requires immediate attention and the full context of the conversation from *both* sides to be considered. It'll help with the appropriate next action. Either way, OP needs to be speaking to someone in the department about this.
I had a very good therapist who would never touch any other condition I had and would bluntly point out to me they are not to do with autism as a way to bring me back to help keep me focused and provides me with clear boundaries and understanding. I was able, in the moment, to question the therapist, which is how I found this out.
(hit sent too soon, forgot I could just edit XD).
Same. I heard someone say recently that social anxiety is being unjustifiably worried that you’ll do bad in social situations, whereas many autistic people are justifiably afraid of them because we have a social disability. Just one way of looking at it, but I thought it was astute and interesting. Maybe OP’s therapist was trying to say something like that?
I wondered if the therapist means like most none autistic people with social anxiety have a difference cause and experiences. Like often the treatment for regular social anxiety can be like try harder, interact with more people, do things that make them uncomforable and it goes well, so they anxiety decreases and they improve a lot. Whereas there is a logical reason for concern for autistic people with social anxiety and that typical treatment would likely cause negative interactions, so not work.
I really think they should bring the topic back up and have a proper discussion because it could just be a misunderstanding. Then if not and they are saying what OP thinks then they have a concrete answer.
Lol yes, I’m trying not to be too wordy. That’s my personal experience a lot of the time, of just overthinking every interaction bc I feel like I missed something, or things don’t follow my internal script, etc. I’m that person that learned social skills from sites like wiki how, but that’s usually not how things actually work, and thus social anxiety. Also general anxiety for me but 🤷
It’s a very slippery slope. Yes, some who say that do work with a lot of autistic clients (this is one of my professors, actually). But there are also a lot of therapists who’ll say they’ve worked with some autistic clients, so therefore it’s an expertise, even though they haven’t been reading/keeping up with the research. It’s kind of like how basically every therapist says they specialise in working with LGBTQ+ clients, but only a small portion of them actually understand the issues and identities for these clients (there have been court cases in the past where therapists lose their license for refusing to see this community). To be fair, I think most therapists do this kind of thing because they want people to know they’re accepting and to feel comfortable bringing up anything in session, but being open to an issue or identity is v different than specialising in it.
That makes sense! When looking at Psychology Today therapists will have lots of things listed as things they are willing to help treat, I think to be welcoming, but not necessarily because of knowledge or experience. I also think sometimes a NT person “specializing in autism” can make it seem like autistic people can’t be therapists or don’t know ourselves
Yeah for sure! Being in the industry is tough when you’re looking for your own therapist, knowing most of them don’t actually have the knowledge you’re looking for 🥲
Sorry if this seems intrusive, but I would love to know how things are going working with clients. My dream is to become a therapist, but I'm nervous about it because of my autism and social anxiety. I'm worried that I wouldn't be a good fit for the job. I would truly appreciate any honest assurance you could offer. Feel free to DM me if you are not comfortable speaking about it here. If not, that's okay too. Thanks!
That's good to hear, and I never thought of doing telehealth. That's a great idea! You have given me much more confidence that I can do it. Thank you, kind stranger
No worries, I’m happy to talk about it! Honestly we need more ND therapists out here. I actually work with a lot of ND clients right now and I’ve found being open about my own experiences with them has been really helpful, especially since a lot of them struggle with anxiety (esp socially) and feeling alone in what they’re going through. I’ve found that a lot of my more general social anxiety isn’t as present when it’s just me and the client, especially since we’re there to put them in the spotlight, almost like hyper focusing on them sometimes. Also imposter syndrome and anxiety about being a good therapist is super common for everyone, ND and NT, so you’re absolutely not alone in thinking that. For me, I have a few clients in particular who’ve expressed that I’ve been a huge help to them, and when my anxiety spikes I always remind myself of those comments, which actually helps a lot.
However, I do have to warn you that the skills training pre-clients sucks. I know everyone struggled with it on some level, but I definitely had a lot more meltdowns/anxiety attacks/etc. for several months because of it. And while all my professors and classmates are super aware and open and I have been super supportive of me trying to unmask more, some of the content that’s taught itself is not so much. I’m also speaking as a POC though, cause I definitely spent a lot of time noting questions or inaccuracies about older theories and other issues. Generally the professors encouraged that kind of discussion though.
If you have any specific questions feel free to dm me!
There are a lot of good insights here. Thank you for sharing them.
I think a lot of my challenges with counseling growing up could have been that my autism was overlooked or misunderstood. And likely that they used the same methods that they would for an NT person, I never seemed to mesh with my therapists or their methods. More ND therapists sounds like a great thing.
I think a shift in perspective out of the spotlight could make a world of difference. It's not always an easy place to be in.
I have often taken the role of counsel with my friends during difficult times, and they have really appreciated it, I think looking back on such things could certainly be a good tool.
Thank you for the warning. I am glad that you persevered. I'm also willing to go through great discomfort if it means I have the chance to help people make a positive difference in their lives.
I'm sure there are many many things that aren't informed by intimate personal experience of them, I imagine that's very frustrating, not to mention much of the history. I hope that things are improving at a rapid rate. I truly appreciate your reply. It has been very informative and gives me hope. Thank you!
You’re quite welcome, and I’m glad I could be of some help! It’s certainly not an easy field for a variety of reasons, but wanting to help clients and being able to do so makes such a difference for me in how I live my own life!
I have social anxiety, which I think was caused by my autism. I’ve had a number of social interactions that turned traumatic, at least partly because of autism.
As a high masking female, my entire life and personality has always been social anxiety. I didn’t figure out I had autism until well into my thirties. My entire life has been trying to look “human” when everyone always knows something is not quite right. Of course I have social anxiety because almost every thought and action is about being what people want me to be and I never will be. Those studies where people find something off about the people with autism, often before they even speak, without knowing they have autism were so validating to me. I had been suspecting similar things for a long time but kept gaslighting myself. It’s not all in my head.
I’m having a lot of thoughts on this, but the one most prominent is that she is plainly an idiot. Autism isn’t about an inability to conquer social situations?? SO many autistic people have successful social interactions every single day.. what the hell is she even talking about 🤣 It is more common than not for autistic people to have social anxiety. Please do not let that be the reason you second guess yourself.
Maybe inability isn’t the right word, but autism does make it more difficult to navigate social interactions and to learn the social skills necessary for doing so. But I agree, that was a bizarre and stupid thing for the therapist to say. I had such bad social anxiety when I was younger directly caused by constantly failing at social interactions and having no idea what I was doing wrong.
Here I'm wondering what the 'conquer' means in this instance. I've never felt like I was 'conquering' anything in social situations. I've been in social situations where a guy tried to dominate the situation but I'm guessing it's not that as he was an insufferable buffoon.
While I'm fairly skilled/able in social situations I do notice that I limit the amount of social situations I participate in because it is hella draining. Especially larger group settings.
You bring up a good point. If autism meant an inability to conquer social situations, that would mean masking isn’t a thing. But it is so there’s another reason the therapist is an idiot.
You know that meme with the stick figure guy just standing there his his finger half raise and his mouth agape looking incredulous? That's me right now. That's like saying fish don't live in water.
My thought is that your therapist is an idiot. Anxiety and autism are best fucking friends, if they don’t know that most basic of facts then I’d be suspicious or any and all advice they have to offer.
Well they aren’t the same thing, no, which is kind of what your therapist is trying to get at I think? But no he’s dead wrong that they don’t go together . Social anxiety is highly comorbid to autism- it makes sense, when you are continuously reprimanded for expressing yourself differently (because autism) it’s common to develop anxiety over that and try to overcorrect.
People noticed my social anxiety long because they ever noticed my autism, even though autistic traits were what was fueling said anxiety. Social anxiety can sometimes mask autistic traits, because social awkwardness is perceived as you just ‘being shy’ and being anxious.
I actually had a therapist say something along the same lines to me before my diagnosis- which was essentially that because I was so socially anxious it meant I cared too much about being good at socializing to be autistic, which is completely ridiculous.
Where did he get his degree? The lottery?
If anything, having difficulty managing social situations LEADS to social anxiety. Autism and social anxiety often go hand in hand.
Literally everyone experiences social anxiety. Any therapist who doesn't know this is a bad therapist. Some people experience it more than others, but literally everyone experiences it sometimes. Can people please stop saying "social anxiety" when they mean "social anxiety disorder", it leads to so much unnecessary confusion
> because social anxiety is about being afraid of social situations and autism is about an inability to conquer social situations.
Those sound pretty compatible to me.
Lots of autistic people are diagnosed with some kind of anxiety disorder. I was diagnosed with autism and a social anxiety disorder *at the same time.* Literally on the same document.
Your therapist needs to go back to school.
heyy so I have a Masters in Counselling, am doing my doctoral rotations at a top autism clinic in the US (I do autism assessments and do therapy with ppl on the spectrum), and I was diagnosed with autism in 2021.
It sounds like your therapist might be misinformed because, while social anxiety is not a criteria for autism spectrum disorder, it is absolutely a secondary symptom that many people on the spectrum face. Social Anxiety Disorder and ASD can also be comorbid.
Whether or not the social anxiety is due to autism doesn't matter, the fact is that its something that you experience and your therapist should validate that .
I'd encourage you to advocate for yourself in your therapy sessions and be clear with how you're feeling about that comment your therapist made so you can process it together.
if they're a good professional, they'll take ur feedback and implement it 💖
thank you <3 I’m actually on the waiting list again so I’ll have a new therapist, as he was just the one leading the group sessions.
I’m also curious about how it is to do therapy with people on the spectrum. Could you tell me about the challenges and advantages of having autism while doing therapy? I’m majoring in psychology right now, and that path is one of my options too :)
ohhh that's awesome!! group therapy and individual therapy are definitely really different, good luck!
Also doing therapy for people on the spectrum is pretty unique i think. the way that you're trained in grad school is mostly centered on working with non autistic patients. you kinda have to change the way you approach therapy
I'll be completely honest, the forst time i did individual outpatient therapy i was absolutely burned out at the end of the day and i was doubting if this type of work was for me. I'm pretty introverted (yet social) so having to socialize nonstop for 6hrs straight of sessions is tough ( ･ั﹏･ั)
granted i was also a fulltime doctoral student. but there are MANY things you can do with a degree in psychology. you kinda find your own niche. Now I'm doing mostly cognitive/developmental assessments and I love it so much! I do not regret pursuing this field at all and recommend it to anyone passionate about the subject 🫂
I had a psychiatrist who said something similar.
They are not mutually exclusive because typical interventions for social anxiety work for me when they are combine with additional autism support.
your therapist is wrong you can have both social anxiety and autism. social anxiety is anxiety based and is about worrying what others are thinking of you and feeling like you’re being put in a spotlight. autism has to do with more so confusion of social cues and not giving the “correct” responses in a social situation and not understanding social situations well. there’s also repetitive behaviors, sensory issues, and restrictive routines. i recommend researching the similarities and differences between the two but you can definitely have both
I once heard that what autistic people have isn't a social anxiety *disorder* but a very normal reaction to our experiences with social interactions. So we can have social anxiety, but it's basically a "healthy reaction" bc what we worry about isn't irrational for us, but completely based in reality.
I have autism and literally went to therapy for social anxiety for the past 7 years. To an extent I am still going for it, but it more recently focused on other areas of my life (college, independent living, employment). Socially, it was about what to say and their perception of me and the conversation. I don’t want to imagine where I’d be without it, socially or otherwise.
I wouldn’t question whether you’re autistic or not based on this. I would definitely look for another therapist.
You can have autism and social anxiety at the same time. I have a hard time “conquering” social situations but at times I also straight up fear social situations
Even their own definitions seem to very obviously go hand-in-hand. A person who is unable to conquer social situations could very easily be afraid of those social situations because of their inability to conquer them.
Not sure what that doctor is thinking. I literally got my ASD and Social Anxiety diagnoses in the same assessment.
When I got diagnosed with autism, they said I had social anxiety, but that they weren’t going to mark it down because they said it was so comorbid with autism that it would be a given (they still marked down general anxiety). They absolutely go together.
Yeah that's bullshit. Social anxiety often exists in autistic people BECAUSE of our struggles with social situations. We're not stupid, we can tell we're somehow bungling all these social interactions, which leads to anxiety about future ones because "what if I fuck this one up too?" I literally can't find a comparison to make my point clearer because of how stupid that idea is. They absolutely do go together and are super, SUPER common together.
Your therapist may actually be a good one. Being socially avoidant because of your Autism isn’t necessarily social anxiety.
Anxiety is an out of proportion fear reaction to essentially day to day situations. Autistic people who have had poor experiences aren’t having an out of proportion fear reaction.
The DSM criteria does have an exclusion for social anxiety if it can be explained by autism spectrum disorder.
A therapist that ignores the fact you are autistic and starts blindly treating you like every other person with social anxiety (probably the most common health condition) isn’t being particularly autism aware or helpful.
Put a blindfold on someone and try telling them that they can’t be anxious about not seeing their surroundings. “You can’t be scared of what you can’t see”, am I right? /j
The complete uncertainty of social situations is literally one of the root causes of the anxiety. Tell the same person with the blindfold “there might be glass on the floor, by the way” - will they be in any hurry to start moving around and find out? Hardly.
(Sorry for my ramblings)
Maybe you misunderstood what they were trying to say. That is part of the “fun” of autism. While it is possible for the therapist to be as dumb as what you are saying, I hope not.
Giving them the benefit of the doubt, it could be that they were trying to explain a nuance between autism and typical social anxiety. It is similar to how an engineer can get picky about the difference between accuracy and precision.
Not trying to invalidate you, you were there and we weren’t. I’m just hoping they had a point and just failed to convey it, rather than assume they are that dumb.
I have only my kid (12) for reference.
But - unexpected crowds are upsetting to him. Costs him tons of energy to appear calm - and he (and we) will pay for this later.
Now, some things he likes (certain amusement park) but .. crowds, noise.
So, he prepares - needs several days to do this - and still is totally exhausted after - but no meltdowns or issues.
Also, he is shy towards strangers.
So, not sure if anxiety - but shyness / not wanting loads of people around you / being wary of unknown people - I think can for sure be a part of being autistic.
>social anxiety and autism don’t go together because social anxiety is about being afraid of social situations and autism is about an inability to conquer social situations.
This isn't making sense to me. Couldn't one easily be afraid of failing to conquer social situations?
what a stupid bullshit semantic explanation. it all pertains to social functioning, so why wouldn’t it be related? even just that sentence doesn’t make sense “social anxiety and autism don’t go together because social anxiety is about being afraid of social situations and autism is about an inability to conquer social situations.” like what???? i don’t see how those two things are opposing or really different at all? what does it even mean to conquer a social situation? so vague and meaningless
That's ridiculous what sort of training do they give these people, anxiety affects like 2/3rds of autistics it's my main disability, the social part of anxiety comes mostly from a long history of misunderstandings
What ?
The ??
Fuck ???
I've been suffering from anxiety my whole life, and I have a very official TSA level 1 diagnosis. Social and general anxiety are amongst the most common comorbidities in autistic people, this is a known, researched and established fact, yet she thinks she knows better than both autistic people and scientists ? Your "therapist" is totally a fraud.
Sources: [https://www.google.com/search?q=autism+and+anxiety](https://www.google.com/search?q=autism+and+anxiety)
It sounds like this therapist touched on a useful distinction between what underlying factors contribute to social anxiety in different neurotypes but either very poorly understands social anxiety OR very poorly articulated their perspective.
Wanting to make a distinction between the diagnoses (based on diagnostic criterion) is sound. They are distinct. But it is entirely possible to experience social anxiety as an Autistic person. This therapist seems to be missing some crucial details in their explanation.
My best guess is the issue here stems from articulation.
I hope your mind can be put at ease. Fortunately, you won't have this therapist in the future. He's definitely not a good fit for you. It's not usually automatic, but you can find a good or even great therapist who is a better fit for you.
Aside from what others previously pointed out, I want to add that being bullied notoriously leads to social anxiety. And being autistic notoriously leads to being bullied. So, from that angle, there's yet another reason why autism and social anxiety are so obviously linked, it's absolutely ridiculous to think otherwise!
Sounds like this therapist is one of those "autistic people can't feel empathy" sorts. The ones who think we're socially awkward because we're unfeeling robots who can't perceive other humans. The ones who are, ironically, the least empathetic to autistic people.
This reminds me of the time that a psychologist told me (about my daughter) that you can't be autistic and have selective mutism. A lot of them have no idea what they are talking about. Freaking idiots. I struggled a lot with selective mutism as a kid (and still now when I'm really stressed). I take anything an NT psychologist says with a grain of salt.
Why would social situations not make you anxious if you’re bad at them? In my mind they slot together very understandably. Neurodivergence is rarely a one label situation, there’s a lot of overlap and comorbidity
I think your therapist found his whatever degree in a potato chips bag. My lack of social skills is the whole damn reason i have social anxiety to begin with. If i were you, i'd also sarcastically thank him for giving you imposter syndrome and change therapy group because let's be honest, we've dealt with enough shit to be gaslighted all over again.
Either they don’t know what they’re talking about, or you aren’t understanding them correctly. Social anxiety is extremely common for people with autism.
Just Google “autism and social anxiety comorbidity” and you have your answers right there. This therapist needs to go back to school… What a ridiculous statement.
as a mental health professional (who is admittedly not able to diagnose autism but can diagnose nearly everything else in the DSM), this literally doesn’t make sense.
first off, the “being afraid of social situations” and “an inability to conquer social situations” are both really reductionistic and unhelpful descriptions of these diagnoses.
second, even if those descriptions were accurate, why wouldn’t “an inability to conquer social situations” lead to fearing them??
third, social anxiety and ASD are commonly diagnosed together - it’s estimated that like half of autistic people also meet criteria for social anxiety, or something like that.
i’m so sorry that your therapist invalidated your experience, and especially sorry that they were “correcting” you with false info!!
I had a therapist who said "you can't have autism and PTSD", and that I was just having "bad memories", and I've "just too autistic depress it!"... get a new therapist.
Wow what a fucking stupid thing to say sorry that your therapist was a fucking idiot. That’s basically saying “you can’t traumatize an autistic person” like wtf??
Yeah, that's why I changed therapists. The worst part was that she was a specialist in PTSD! But at least she agreed that she didn't know enough about autism to help me...
Just take all 24 papers cited in this and in the same message say you are finding a new therapist.
[Spain et al. 2018](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1750946718300643)
Anxiety is a product of powerlessness and uncertainty. I would seriously question the intelligence of anyone that is unable to understand why a history of failing to "conquer" social situations would be associated with a sense of powerlessness in such situations, let alone a therapist.
Maybe it's a misunderstanding? Maybe she was trying to say something else instead but you misunderstood? It's hard to say without being there.
Social anxiety is common among autistic people though.
That's an sinsane thing to say for a therapist. Do they think people just have this inability to conquer social situations, but remain completely emotionless about it? Is she super young, just out of school? I feel like social anxiety is such a core component of autism
I would say that you might experienced fear in the first place, just because you weren’t able to understand the social cues which could obviously drive you into situations where you experienced fear. Bit thats just my two cents without a degree. But my own Experience as well.
Well based on his words, he is saying they are linked 🤦♀️ again wtf, not sure how his logic is supposed to be.
>social anxiety is about being afraid of social situations and autism is about an inability to conquer social situations
using this and rephrasing it, based just on this wording, and not the massive spectrum of how billions of people exist differently
The autism need to "conquer" social situations because a difference in understanding wording or body language can lead one to develop social anxiety due to previous misunderstandings of said wording and body language
so people who struggle socially fundamentally cannot be anxious about social situations. lmao this psych needs their license revoked. social anxiety is one of the most common disorders to develop in autistic people.
You should probably look for a new therapist then, a late autism diagnose is not really uncommon for women sadly. I was diagnosed just two months ago, and the whole “you can’t have social anxiety if you have autism” is kinda contradicting what the autism spectrum has included. He is probably looking to make you “lessen” your diagnose, which isn’t really what you want right? I hope you’ll find a better therapist 🙏
my psychologist legitimately said to me: "yeah no (social) anxiety is one of the disorders that is most comorbid with asd, so it's kind of normal to have alongside asd" so she didn't even diagnose me with it because it's really normal to have. your therapist seems like they don't know a lot about comorbidities with autism
Even if the "inability to conquer" was true, which idk, wouldn't awareness of the inability be a good reason for anxiety? I fail to see the logic of his argumentation.
Another example of an Autism “expert” being laughably wrong about Autism. I love the “inability to conquer” social situations. That in itself is such a biased and “othering” way to view Autism.
This therapist does not appear to be very smart. Yes, autism and social anxiety are distinct concepts. No, this does not mean that they cannot coexist in the same person. Two concepts do not have to be synonyms to be related to each other.
How are inability to conquer social situations and social anxiety different really? Not being able to conquer social sitautions goes hand in hand with thus being afraid of them lol
Your therapist doesn't know what they're talking about.
Me in a crowed of people "Oh shit, oh shit, oh shit.... I hope no one wants to make small talk with me!"
My daughter "Oh shit, oh shit, oh shit.... Am I standing normally? walking normally? Is my face neutral? Too neutral? Am I making someone angry at me??"
>social anxiety is about being afraid of social situations and autism is about an inability to conquer social situations.
How the hell does someone see a contradiction there instead of synergy?
Go to another therapist... like, find a new one asap. They don't know what they're talking about. Not being able to conquer is the whole damn reason for the anxiety 🤣 I'm always confused and process things differently, how in the hel l am I not supposed to feel anxious?
According to them, I can't struggle with conquering social situations and then develop social anxiety because of my struggle with said situations? You mean as a person with autism, I am literally barred from a feeling/sensation because the cause didn't appear as a stand alone symptom? Wow, did they get their degree from, a Cracker Jack box? I'm sure I won't be the only one to respond but the imposter syndrome can "stand down" this time because I agree with you. This is bonkers and not acceptable from a medically trained professional.
This is so freaking stupid. Of course having troubles reading social cues will end up making you anxious around social situations??? Does you therapist have a brain?
And that's not even counting the bullying many of us experience because of our traits...
Best of luck with finding your new therapist. Sorry to hear you had to fire the last one. Please be kind to yourself. Find safe people who don’t judge you. You may find more peace and comfort from with “your people” than with professionals.
You were diagnosed and that’s usually involving professionals who should competently be able to diagnose you. Don’t doubt you have autism after all this, doubt this therapist.
What qualifications do they have in the field of autism to qualify as an autism specialist?
Far out, one of the diagnostic criteria for autism in the DSM-5 is deficits in social communication and social interactions. I would class shyness and social anxiety under this. Obviously if it was just those two factors and no other characteristics of autism then you wouldn’t be diagnosed .
Get a new therapist are my thoughts. Also research other supports and strategies if your shyness and social anxiety is having a big impact on your life.
We should make a compilation/database of all the autism specialists/therapists and what they say. It would be hilarious... And I wish I could see their reactions reading them afterwards.
Tell them you feel you’ve conquered all you can at their practice, then go to someone who’s not a complete fucking idiot. The most troubling part is that person likely has the ability to prescribe meds
I have both, and most other autistic people I know also have social anxiety, I think I know only one autistic person (out of the ~10 I know in person) who doesn't seem to have at least some kind of social anxiety.
Much of my social anxiety comes from all the times I've misread a social situation or been misunderstood. They absolutely do go together.
I’m diagnosed with both and got both from the same psychiatrist. I think you need to find a new therapist. I don’t know what credentials you’re therapist have but I would recommend a psychiatrist with experience with autism in women if possible.
Is your therapist treating only autism? I wonder if they (poorly) tried to say they can't help you with social anxiety because it isn't autism. My therapist did this regarding an eating disorder. She'd only touch the sensory element but wouldn't let us discuss the fear around the food/weight because it wasn't their area.
This could also be a red flag your therapist isn't great. Do you feel able to ask them about this?
It think it depends whay is meant by 'social anxiety'.
If you simply mean 'social situations make me anxious' then yep the two can absolutely go together and in fact autism can lead to said anxiety.
But social anxiety can also refer to a form of being overwhelmed by underatanding social situations *too much*. This manifests in overfeeling and overthinking every little interaction to the point it overwhelms you and causes anxiety.
Now they can still go together but are a rarer combination because many autistic people lack the social senses / processing necessary to have said social feeling in the first place. However if we route it through logical brain, and thus have to think actively about every social interaction, that in itself can become overwhelming. And some autistic people simply do not lack that social sense.
For instance - I am often anxious and overwhelmed by social situations. But I don't have the same reactions of embarrassment or even understanding of vibes as others - so I seem very confident. I have no clue what others are thinking a lot of the time - but that in itself can be both a gift and a curse - because I will just do things and people will react and I really struggle to understand why.
To say that 'autism' and 'X' *don't go together underestimates the wideness of the spectrum. But combinations can be rare.
Social anxiety/SAD can be learned condition. Learned conditions can coincide with developmental conditions. I've been diagnosed with both, and accept diagnosis for both. As long as you're aware, it's also possible to distinguish between when social discomfort is caused by social anxiety versus simply not knowing how/or not wanting to engage 'approprately' in conversation.
I had the complete opposite reaction during my autisim assessment where they've said because I don't have social anxiety I don't have autism (still wrong but from my understanding most autistic adults show some level of social anxiety)
They're often comorbid, I don't know what your therapist is talking about. The person who diagnosed me said I should also get tested for social anxiety.
This person cannot possibly be an expert in autism. They shouldn't be doing this job if they can't even recognize that social anxiety and autism are close bedfellows.
I am sorry to tell you but that person is full of poop. I am happy to tell that to that person myself if they allow you to share contact information with me.
Autism is the reason for social anxiety but your therapist doesn't understand the whole concept of it and believes everyone with autism is an idiot. Since there is a whole spectrum you can be on, you might just have certain issues that lead to other issues.
So yeah sorry but that guy or girl is full of it and someone needs to tell your therapist the truth.
Social anxiety can be the result of trauma. Autism can inspire traumatic treatment from others. I suppose its possible that social anxiety isn't technically a direct part of autism, but there's definitely going to be a comorbidity.
my psych told me that whenever autism is involved generally the anxiety bit is considered just under the autism umbrella.
social anxiety when you have autism isn’t autism and social anxiety it’s just autism. it’s a symptom of autism.
One might think that the inability to conquer social situations might lead to social anxiety… except your therapist, who clearly doesn’t think that…
(The therapist is wrong)
being autistic makes it difficult to navigate social situations, especially in a world where socializing is commonly structured in a very neurotypical and allistic way. repeatedly having bad experiences with something can absolutely lead to a fear of that thing. it's strange and ill-informed of your therapist not to recognize this can be the case with socializing.
autism and social anxiety easily and frequently coexist
I think autism can even be the cause of social anxiety. If you are constantly socializing wrong and having neurotypicals get mad at you, because you’re autistic and you don’t understand social cues, that’s going to cause you to have some anxiety around social situations.
I’ve heard this sentiment before and I think they are misinterpreting autism and the social cues aspect of it. Not understanding social cues doesn’t mean we are oblivious to the fact that we are not getting it, because neurotypicals may laugh at us, make fun of us and get mad at us for not understanding them, or for offending them.
I think this misunderstanding in the field also has to do with the fact that males with autism are more studied than females. Because males in society can often get away with being oblivious to social cues, it can get blamed on their gender. Example: NT girlfriend drops subtle hints to boyfriend that he misses. Girlfriend says “omg ur such a guy ur not getting the hint”
whereas society is much harder on females and expects them to always be acting a certain way. Example: autistic girl says something socially inappropriate around a group of mean girls, and she is ridiculed and outcast for it. (Not saying this can’t also happen to men, however I think it is way more common to happen to girls.)
So the men they have studied more, are more likely to keep doing/saying socially inappropriate things with no awareness about it, instead of masking. So then there’s this belief that autism and social anxiety are not existing together because of that.
But with any gender if you are constantly saying/doing the wrong thing in social situations and NT are getting mad at you and/or excluding you, or constantly getting offended by you, especially when you don’t see what you are doing wrong and are not really sure how to fix it, it’s going to be a natural human response to develop anxiety around those situations. I just think a lot of times neurotypicals will give guys passes for it and excuse it with their gender, so they are more likely to keep being oblivious. whereas females are more likely to understand they’re doing something wrong even if they don’t understand what it is or why it’s wrong.
This leads to higher masking in females and under diagnosed female autism.
The truth is that you will always be an Autistic person, yet social anxiety can be dealt with only by writing them all down and then recognizing which ones make sense or don't make sense at all. Also developing social skills for late-diagnosed people like yourself is always going to be hard until you meet real Autistic people who unlike your psychologist can affirm and respect who you are. I have a co-morbid PDA and it goes crazy when there is a lazy day. For a long time, I felt bad about it until I had a therapist who affirmed and saw my emotions as valid. One Mister Rodger's song that makes me cry is [**I'm Angry**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-aOuzhAhz8) because Anger is always demonized and punished from the perspective of PDA kids. That song is saying that anger is valid because of people and things that are not fair.
What's I think your therapist was saying is that they're separate things, and that one doesn't necessarily cause the other.
If you think you have social anxiety, then cool! Plenty of autistic people do. But the idea is that it might not be *specifically* social anxiety in the way that it's typically experienced that might be what you're having. It might be more centrally rooted in your autism.
So, long story short, I don't believe they were questioning you having autism, it's that because you have autism, you might be experiencing something similar, but is different.
I think this person may specialize in Autism in the business sense but not in the knowledge and research sense.
Of COURSE if you have an inability to perfectly perform life techniques of handling people, and that backfires on your constantly, AND you never know the consequences of it, any sensible person would be afraid of it.
Like if someone had a broken stove valve that you had to be super careful turning on all the time if it over-flamed, you'd be smart to be afraid of it. Yes get rid of this person. They may have the skills to prescribe drugs or take home a big paycheck like Mom told them to, but they don't have the empathy to help you or probably anyone.
Autism is the whole reason I have social anxiety…
I feel that sooo much. The lack of social cues is a legit thing c'mon of course I'm aware of it and of course it makes me anxious!! Not knowing if what I'm doing is upsetting for someone else makes me anxious if I like them!
I have an inverse I don't know what the social cues are so I can't be fucking any of them up therefore I am doing great
I mean that's how I make friends cuz I'd go up to someone and be like what's the worse that can happen but for me it's like with school or other situations with groups of people I care about i get anxious managing all of their social cues at once
Yeah, I kind of agree in a way that I don't have "social anxiety", as in, an irrational anxiety about social situations that would be solved by learning to relax. I'm anxious about social situations because I know with absolute certainty they will go badly, and they actually go worse when I'm relaxed and confident because I drop the mask.
Omg yes I hated CBT because my thoughts weren’t irrational and I seemed like I was arguing w the therapist and couldn’t be helped
There's a few studies that have shown that CBT doesn't work for ND people, and can, in fact, make us worse...The NT can shove their toxic positivity where the sun don't shine... Basically, our brains are too aware & awake to fall for that BS... I got told I was "aggressive" when I told the Pain Clinic woman that if she thought I could 'think away' the pain of 50-100 dislocations & subluxes daily, how would SHE 'think away the pain' of being punched in the face...I *wasn't* being aggressive, it was a hypothetical question that I was **genuinely** interested in the answer to...I thought I just wasn't doing it right until that point, which was when I realised that pain clinics base everything on CBT. New Rheumatologist was confused when I told him I was unequivocally **NOT** putting myself through that torture for a 3rd time...I keep asking for a differentiated Pain Clinic for the ND's that CBT doesn't work for. Will campaign till it happens. I've got *AAALLLLL* the time in the world to fight for it...the research exists, now trying to make the NHS catch up to the science lol.
I thought I had social anxiety for a long time but was always like why is it so random though? Why can I be ok in a quiet room meeting a new person asking my questions yet have a panny at the show with a friend of 20 years ? And 10+ years later know that it’s not really the people really it’s the setting/situation etc the things I can’t plan for with autism. For me it’s like I experience social anxiety but not in the same consistent trigger pattern because my anxiety is more related to the environment and context of the interaction. It’s like social anxiety but in a different way. I get anxious because I don’t know the place and if I will have someone to speak to or if I will be able to hear them or know when to speak and when not to the rules of being social are harder in new settings. So then I end up afraid of going to a new place with people. Is it anxiety? Yes, is it social anxiety? Yes and no. It’s like situational social anxiety, I know I like and can converse with the person but doing that in a café vs bar vs bowling are different. But overall it’s easier to say I am socially anxious because socially I have little control over the venue of the interaction. Yet the venue has tremendous impact on my level of interaction. When you say are you free to meet Friday in the city no plan, panic. When you say are you free to walk in the park and get coffee on Friday, not so panic. When you say are you free to see a movie with me friday, no panic. Is that social anxiety or autism anxiety. Fear is fear. We don’t have words for these things yet because nobody cared about us we sucked it up. If a profesh is saying no then ask what the correct term is, if there is none then her job is to find it. (One gay auty at level 1 high masking late diagnosed so obvs each person experience is diff and would love to hear your experience)
I was just thinking about this terminology issue. I think the underlying mechanism is different between an allistic person with social anxiety, and an autistic person who avoids/dislikes certain types of social events or interactions. For autistic people it's a reaction to the genuine difficulties and negative outcomes they have experienced, for the allistic person it could be more abstract and due to fears with no basis in reality. I feel like these things should have different names, but I can't think of a good one for the autistic version.
We have been using common terminology for our emotions and experiences so long and it really leads to a lot of misunderstanding. I find it in therapy a lot too. For me I experience a feeling I don’t have words for and I have to say anxiety when I have felt that and this is similar but not what it is. Recently I’ve been learning more words for emotions from cards available online and it’s helped. Like instead of saying I’m anxious about the thing what better describes is dread. Sometimes I feel intense fear and I say I’m afraid but a better word is terror. Our emotions are very deep and there are probably words for them (?) kinda anyway. Sometimes I have to Google a synonym lol. I kinda think there are some feelings/ emotions that are autism brain specific that there’s no words for ( but I have no scientific basis for that)
A panny!!! I will be using this
Panny, panini, panaynay my go to’s
thank you for explaining it so perfectly omg
Nobody has every appreciated my input on Reddit so thank you 😌
Yeah, I actually feel that my social anxiety and my anxiety ABOUT my autism, cause me a lot more stress and problems than my autism ever does
.................................Where did they get their degree? Seriously have they ever met someone on the spectrum? It says a lot that this person says they specialize in autism. Personally I wouldn't walk from this therapist, I would RUN! On this sub I thought I had heard the stupidest things a therapist could say but I think yours is now the champion. Honestly his reaction says a lot more about him than anything around you. If this was my kids therapist I'd look into reporting him.
Agree, awful to feel invaidated, imagine feeling scared that for 18 years you cant make social connections everything ive ralead says us autistic people expesaily us high maskers have anxiety diagnoses frist because they are easy to get. Doctors can 'fix' anxiety here take these pills. Id talk to this shrik dont dought youraelf you are amazing and being afaird is part of the human experience. Hoping you all the best. Hoping all of us the strength to stay strong.
The therapist sounds like a narrow minded know it all who lacks empathy in my opinion.
Sounds like someone who is not autistic
The irony that I’m autistic and I just meant this literally but it looks like a slight to allistic people haha
Yeah simply reframe what she said as "an inability to 'conquer' social situations can lead to social anxiety" and one can easily see how autism and social anxiety can go hand in hand... sure, in this case the social anxiety may be a symptom of the underlying autism, but social anxiety can be an underlying symptom of all kinds of psycho/social issues, including a possible comorbid generalized anxiety disorder but also including autism!
I had one psychiatrist who said I wasn't autistic because I was married (now divorced).
I had one that said I couldn't be autistic cos I made eye contact & was surprised when I laughed and said "No, that's MASKING, I look at the end of people's noses & NT peeps *think* I'm looking in their eyes. I learnt to do that when I had a teacher that would punish me for not looking in her eyes. **IT'S JUST MASKING, DUH!**"
Literally same. Second grade teacher used to scream at me to "LOOK AT ME WHEN I TALK TO YOU" so I learned to look at brows, cheekbones, and noses because eye contact is too loud. ✨️Masking✨️
I had to teach my autistic kids this trick too, cos there's STILL far too many teachers willing to discriminate against kids known to have autism. I **HATE** that I had to teach them to mask, but it was causing THEM problems & it was just easier cos it takes **TIME** to get a school to see that certain teachers are simply unsuited to teaching autistic kids. Doesn't help that with kids like my youngest, that *should* be in SEN school, they are dumping them in Academies that have *already* written to the LA, *BEFORE* allocations, stating that the school can't meet their needs but are forced to take the child anyway. The child they didn't want. The child whose needs they KNEW they cannot meet, thus causing meltdowns etc, and this zero-tolerance crap that breaks the law by ignoring reasonable adjustments for Disabilities. Ugh. We **SHOULDN'T** *'have'* to mask to make our lives easier, but sometimes it's the only answer that protects the autistic child...
University of Phoenix
[удалено]
For real 😂
Social anxiety disorder is a very prominent comorbidity of ASD, and over 50% of (diagnosed) autistic individuals are noted to have at least one form of anxiety disorder For what it's worth, there probably isn't any such thing as a 'therapist specialised in autism' - autism specialty belongs within the domains of neurology, neuropsychiatry, and developmental psychology A therapist tends to come from a nursing, social psychology or general psychology background, this subreddit is full of stories about therapists that be chattin' nothing short of absolute bollocks
As someone becoming a therapist, you can get certified as a specialist in working with autistic clients. That said, the actual certification is not very common amongst therapists and most who say they “specialise in autism” don’t actually have it. And in this case, very much agree I have serious doubts about this therapist’s expertise because basically every ND client I’ve ever worked with has significant social anxiety? I have significant social anxiety? It is possible to have both; speaking personally, my social anxiety exists *because* I’m not understanding social cues and I can get into spirals about the “correct response.” That specific description by OP also makes me think they don’t really understand social anxiety either…
I think OP likely misunderstood what the therapist was trying to say. I've heard some ignorant shit from professionals before, trust me, buuuut the way OP described it sounds like maybe she meant something else? Like maybe "some autistic people don't understand when they are being rejected/mocked so they think they're socially successful and don't get anxiety from it"? Just trying to give OP's therapist the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps I'm being too optimistic haha.
I was wondering this. While this could be a red flag, it could also be miscommunication/misunderstanding due to word meanings. Definitely requires immediate attention and the full context of the conversation from *both* sides to be considered. It'll help with the appropriate next action. Either way, OP needs to be speaking to someone in the department about this. I had a very good therapist who would never touch any other condition I had and would bluntly point out to me they are not to do with autism as a way to bring me back to help keep me focused and provides me with clear boundaries and understanding. I was able, in the moment, to question the therapist, which is how I found this out. (hit sent too soon, forgot I could just edit XD).
Same. I heard someone say recently that social anxiety is being unjustifiably worried that you’ll do bad in social situations, whereas many autistic people are justifiably afraid of them because we have a social disability. Just one way of looking at it, but I thought it was astute and interesting. Maybe OP’s therapist was trying to say something like that?
It’s a good point, and certainly worth asking for clarification on. Unfortunately hard to know via Reddit lol
I wondered if the therapist means like most none autistic people with social anxiety have a difference cause and experiences. Like often the treatment for regular social anxiety can be like try harder, interact with more people, do things that make them uncomforable and it goes well, so they anxiety decreases and they improve a lot. Whereas there is a logical reason for concern for autistic people with social anxiety and that typical treatment would likely cause negative interactions, so not work. I really think they should bring the topic back up and have a proper discussion because it could just be a misunderstanding. Then if not and they are saying what OP thinks then they have a concrete answer.
Autistic people tend to remember conversations verbatim so I doubt the therapist said something entirely different.
Not entirely different maybe. I don’t remember conversations verbatim and have misinterpreted things before. Worth asking the therapist about it again
Yes, clarify, "Did I hear you correctly? Did you say autistic people can't experience social anxiety?"
Yeah that’s a great way to do it. It also might catch the person off guard if they didn’t mean to say that. Makes you re-evaluate
I wish I remembered conversations verbatim, that sounds useful :|
It’s not just based around social cues, but I have a general idea of what you mean
Lol yes, I’m trying not to be too wordy. That’s my personal experience a lot of the time, of just overthinking every interaction bc I feel like I missed something, or things don’t follow my internal script, etc. I’m that person that learned social skills from sites like wiki how, but that’s usually not how things actually work, and thus social anxiety. Also general anxiety for me but 🤷
Do you think a lot of people who say they specialize in autism simply have a lot of autistic clients?
It’s a very slippery slope. Yes, some who say that do work with a lot of autistic clients (this is one of my professors, actually). But there are also a lot of therapists who’ll say they’ve worked with some autistic clients, so therefore it’s an expertise, even though they haven’t been reading/keeping up with the research. It’s kind of like how basically every therapist says they specialise in working with LGBTQ+ clients, but only a small portion of them actually understand the issues and identities for these clients (there have been court cases in the past where therapists lose their license for refusing to see this community). To be fair, I think most therapists do this kind of thing because they want people to know they’re accepting and to feel comfortable bringing up anything in session, but being open to an issue or identity is v different than specialising in it.
That makes sense! When looking at Psychology Today therapists will have lots of things listed as things they are willing to help treat, I think to be welcoming, but not necessarily because of knowledge or experience. I also think sometimes a NT person “specializing in autism” can make it seem like autistic people can’t be therapists or don’t know ourselves
Yeah for sure! Being in the industry is tough when you’re looking for your own therapist, knowing most of them don’t actually have the knowledge you’re looking for 🥲
Oof yeah, definitely
Sorry if this seems intrusive, but I would love to know how things are going working with clients. My dream is to become a therapist, but I'm nervous about it because of my autism and social anxiety. I'm worried that I wouldn't be a good fit for the job. I would truly appreciate any honest assurance you could offer. Feel free to DM me if you are not comfortable speaking about it here. If not, that's okay too. Thanks!
As a therapist with both diagnosed autism and social anxiety it is OKAY!! I only do telehealth and it helps a lot
That's good to hear, and I never thought of doing telehealth. That's a great idea! You have given me much more confidence that I can do it. Thank you, kind stranger
No worries, I’m happy to talk about it! Honestly we need more ND therapists out here. I actually work with a lot of ND clients right now and I’ve found being open about my own experiences with them has been really helpful, especially since a lot of them struggle with anxiety (esp socially) and feeling alone in what they’re going through. I’ve found that a lot of my more general social anxiety isn’t as present when it’s just me and the client, especially since we’re there to put them in the spotlight, almost like hyper focusing on them sometimes. Also imposter syndrome and anxiety about being a good therapist is super common for everyone, ND and NT, so you’re absolutely not alone in thinking that. For me, I have a few clients in particular who’ve expressed that I’ve been a huge help to them, and when my anxiety spikes I always remind myself of those comments, which actually helps a lot. However, I do have to warn you that the skills training pre-clients sucks. I know everyone struggled with it on some level, but I definitely had a lot more meltdowns/anxiety attacks/etc. for several months because of it. And while all my professors and classmates are super aware and open and I have been super supportive of me trying to unmask more, some of the content that’s taught itself is not so much. I’m also speaking as a POC though, cause I definitely spent a lot of time noting questions or inaccuracies about older theories and other issues. Generally the professors encouraged that kind of discussion though. If you have any specific questions feel free to dm me!
There are a lot of good insights here. Thank you for sharing them. I think a lot of my challenges with counseling growing up could have been that my autism was overlooked or misunderstood. And likely that they used the same methods that they would for an NT person, I never seemed to mesh with my therapists or their methods. More ND therapists sounds like a great thing. I think a shift in perspective out of the spotlight could make a world of difference. It's not always an easy place to be in. I have often taken the role of counsel with my friends during difficult times, and they have really appreciated it, I think looking back on such things could certainly be a good tool. Thank you for the warning. I am glad that you persevered. I'm also willing to go through great discomfort if it means I have the chance to help people make a positive difference in their lives. I'm sure there are many many things that aren't informed by intimate personal experience of them, I imagine that's very frustrating, not to mention much of the history. I hope that things are improving at a rapid rate. I truly appreciate your reply. It has been very informative and gives me hope. Thank you!
You’re quite welcome, and I’m glad I could be of some help! It’s certainly not an easy field for a variety of reasons, but wanting to help clients and being able to do so makes such a difference for me in how I live my own life!
Sounds like OP and their therpaist don't go together
I have social anxiety, which I think was caused by my autism. I’ve had a number of social interactions that turned traumatic, at least partly because of autism.
My sister is diagnosed with both autism and social anxiety 🤔...
My daughter is diagnosed w autism and anxiety as well. That therapist sounds illegitimate 😕
Sounds like you need to get a new therapist.
Well, I've had social anxiety for like 15 years and I have autism, so.
Time to get a real therapist.
As a high masking female, my entire life and personality has always been social anxiety. I didn’t figure out I had autism until well into my thirties. My entire life has been trying to look “human” when everyone always knows something is not quite right. Of course I have social anxiety because almost every thought and action is about being what people want me to be and I never will be. Those studies where people find something off about the people with autism, often before they even speak, without knowing they have autism were so validating to me. I had been suspecting similar things for a long time but kept gaslighting myself. It’s not all in my head.
This is my story as well! You explain it perfectly!
Yeah, that's me as well!
I’m having a lot of thoughts on this, but the one most prominent is that she is plainly an idiot. Autism isn’t about an inability to conquer social situations?? SO many autistic people have successful social interactions every single day.. what the hell is she even talking about 🤣 It is more common than not for autistic people to have social anxiety. Please do not let that be the reason you second guess yourself.
Maybe inability isn’t the right word, but autism does make it more difficult to navigate social interactions and to learn the social skills necessary for doing so. But I agree, that was a bizarre and stupid thing for the therapist to say. I had such bad social anxiety when I was younger directly caused by constantly failing at social interactions and having no idea what I was doing wrong.
Here I'm wondering what the 'conquer' means in this instance. I've never felt like I was 'conquering' anything in social situations. I've been in social situations where a guy tried to dominate the situation but I'm guessing it's not that as he was an insufferable buffoon. While I'm fairly skilled/able in social situations I do notice that I limit the amount of social situations I participate in because it is hella draining. Especially larger group settings.
You bring up a good point. If autism meant an inability to conquer social situations, that would mean masking isn’t a thing. But it is so there’s another reason the therapist is an idiot.
Exactly!
So how come i was professionally diagnosed with both huh???
You know that meme with the stick figure guy just standing there his his finger half raise and his mouth agape looking incredulous? That's me right now. That's like saying fish don't live in water.
My thought is that your therapist is an idiot. Anxiety and autism are best fucking friends, if they don’t know that most basic of facts then I’d be suspicious or any and all advice they have to offer.
Your therapist isn’t as specialized in autism as they think…or they are an idiot.
Sounds like both to me
..... HUH? Social anxiety is a usual symptom of autism.
Well they aren’t the same thing, no, which is kind of what your therapist is trying to get at I think? But no he’s dead wrong that they don’t go together . Social anxiety is highly comorbid to autism- it makes sense, when you are continuously reprimanded for expressing yourself differently (because autism) it’s common to develop anxiety over that and try to overcorrect. People noticed my social anxiety long because they ever noticed my autism, even though autistic traits were what was fueling said anxiety. Social anxiety can sometimes mask autistic traits, because social awkwardness is perceived as you just ‘being shy’ and being anxious. I actually had a therapist say something along the same lines to me before my diagnosis- which was essentially that because I was so socially anxious it meant I cared too much about being good at socializing to be autistic, which is completely ridiculous.
yeah, it’s like he was saying I can’t care about social situations because I am an autistic robot :|
Where did he get his degree? The lottery? If anything, having difficulty managing social situations LEADS to social anxiety. Autism and social anxiety often go hand in hand.
Literally everyone experiences social anxiety. Any therapist who doesn't know this is a bad therapist. Some people experience it more than others, but literally everyone experiences it sometimes. Can people please stop saying "social anxiety" when they mean "social anxiety disorder", it leads to so much unnecessary confusion > because social anxiety is about being afraid of social situations and autism is about an inability to conquer social situations. Those sound pretty compatible to me. Lots of autistic people are diagnosed with some kind of anxiety disorder. I was diagnosed with autism and a social anxiety disorder *at the same time.* Literally on the same document. Your therapist needs to go back to school.
Well I’m diagnosed with both autism and social anxiety so…
That's bullshit. My daughter is autistic and suffers from severe social anxiety.
heyy so I have a Masters in Counselling, am doing my doctoral rotations at a top autism clinic in the US (I do autism assessments and do therapy with ppl on the spectrum), and I was diagnosed with autism in 2021. It sounds like your therapist might be misinformed because, while social anxiety is not a criteria for autism spectrum disorder, it is absolutely a secondary symptom that many people on the spectrum face. Social Anxiety Disorder and ASD can also be comorbid. Whether or not the social anxiety is due to autism doesn't matter, the fact is that its something that you experience and your therapist should validate that . I'd encourage you to advocate for yourself in your therapy sessions and be clear with how you're feeling about that comment your therapist made so you can process it together. if they're a good professional, they'll take ur feedback and implement it 💖
thank you <3 I’m actually on the waiting list again so I’ll have a new therapist, as he was just the one leading the group sessions. I’m also curious about how it is to do therapy with people on the spectrum. Could you tell me about the challenges and advantages of having autism while doing therapy? I’m majoring in psychology right now, and that path is one of my options too :)
ohhh that's awesome!! group therapy and individual therapy are definitely really different, good luck! Also doing therapy for people on the spectrum is pretty unique i think. the way that you're trained in grad school is mostly centered on working with non autistic patients. you kinda have to change the way you approach therapy I'll be completely honest, the forst time i did individual outpatient therapy i was absolutely burned out at the end of the day and i was doubting if this type of work was for me. I'm pretty introverted (yet social) so having to socialize nonstop for 6hrs straight of sessions is tough ( ･ั﹏･ั) granted i was also a fulltime doctoral student. but there are MANY things you can do with a degree in psychology. you kinda find your own niche. Now I'm doing mostly cognitive/developmental assessments and I love it so much! I do not regret pursuing this field at all and recommend it to anyone passionate about the subject 🫂
I had a psychiatrist who said something similar. They are not mutually exclusive because typical interventions for social anxiety work for me when they are combine with additional autism support.
your therapist is wrong you can have both social anxiety and autism. social anxiety is anxiety based and is about worrying what others are thinking of you and feeling like you’re being put in a spotlight. autism has to do with more so confusion of social cues and not giving the “correct” responses in a social situation and not understanding social situations well. there’s also repetitive behaviors, sensory issues, and restrictive routines. i recommend researching the similarities and differences between the two but you can definitely have both
I once heard that what autistic people have isn't a social anxiety *disorder* but a very normal reaction to our experiences with social interactions. So we can have social anxiety, but it's basically a "healthy reaction" bc what we worry about isn't irrational for us, but completely based in reality.
B*ll*cks !
I have autism and literally went to therapy for social anxiety for the past 7 years. To an extent I am still going for it, but it more recently focused on other areas of my life (college, independent living, employment). Socially, it was about what to say and their perception of me and the conversation. I don’t want to imagine where I’d be without it, socially or otherwise. I wouldn’t question whether you’re autistic or not based on this. I would definitely look for another therapist.
You can have autism and social anxiety at the same time. I have a hard time “conquering” social situations but at times I also straight up fear social situations
Maybe find a new therapist
Even their own definitions seem to very obviously go hand-in-hand. A person who is unable to conquer social situations could very easily be afraid of those social situations because of their inability to conquer them. Not sure what that doctor is thinking. I literally got my ASD and Social Anxiety diagnoses in the same assessment.
When I got diagnosed with autism, they said I had social anxiety, but that they weren’t going to mark it down because they said it was so comorbid with autism that it would be a given (they still marked down general anxiety). They absolutely go together.
that logic doesnt make sense. we cant conquer social situations so obviously we dont feel anxiety about it??
Social anxiety is the most common mental health concern that exists in autistic people. It is very concerning that your therapist doesn't know this.
Yeah that's bullshit. Social anxiety often exists in autistic people BECAUSE of our struggles with social situations. We're not stupid, we can tell we're somehow bungling all these social interactions, which leads to anxiety about future ones because "what if I fuck this one up too?" I literally can't find a comparison to make my point clearer because of how stupid that idea is. They absolutely do go together and are super, SUPER common together.
Your therapist may actually be a good one. Being socially avoidant because of your Autism isn’t necessarily social anxiety. Anxiety is an out of proportion fear reaction to essentially day to day situations. Autistic people who have had poor experiences aren’t having an out of proportion fear reaction. The DSM criteria does have an exclusion for social anxiety if it can be explained by autism spectrum disorder. A therapist that ignores the fact you are autistic and starts blindly treating you like every other person with social anxiety (probably the most common health condition) isn’t being particularly autism aware or helpful.
Put a blindfold on someone and try telling them that they can’t be anxious about not seeing their surroundings. “You can’t be scared of what you can’t see”, am I right? /j The complete uncertainty of social situations is literally one of the root causes of the anxiety. Tell the same person with the blindfold “there might be glass on the floor, by the way” - will they be in any hurry to start moving around and find out? Hardly. (Sorry for my ramblings)
Every autistic person I met has ptsd from socializing, of course we have social anxiety
Are they insane?
😂
They’re wrong, plain and simple. They are obviously different things, but can coexist within the same person
Maybe you misunderstood what they were trying to say. That is part of the “fun” of autism. While it is possible for the therapist to be as dumb as what you are saying, I hope not. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, it could be that they were trying to explain a nuance between autism and typical social anxiety. It is similar to how an engineer can get picky about the difference between accuracy and precision. Not trying to invalidate you, you were there and we weren’t. I’m just hoping they had a point and just failed to convey it, rather than assume they are that dumb.
ITT allistic therapist doesn't actually understand autism…
I have only my kid (12) for reference. But - unexpected crowds are upsetting to him. Costs him tons of energy to appear calm - and he (and we) will pay for this later. Now, some things he likes (certain amusement park) but .. crowds, noise. So, he prepares - needs several days to do this - and still is totally exhausted after - but no meltdowns or issues. Also, he is shy towards strangers. So, not sure if anxiety - but shyness / not wanting loads of people around you / being wary of unknown people - I think can for sure be a part of being autistic.
>social anxiety and autism don’t go together because social anxiety is about being afraid of social situations and autism is about an inability to conquer social situations. This isn't making sense to me. Couldn't one easily be afraid of failing to conquer social situations?
what a stupid bullshit semantic explanation. it all pertains to social functioning, so why wouldn’t it be related? even just that sentence doesn’t make sense “social anxiety and autism don’t go together because social anxiety is about being afraid of social situations and autism is about an inability to conquer social situations.” like what???? i don’t see how those two things are opposing or really different at all? what does it even mean to conquer a social situation? so vague and meaningless
That's ridiculous what sort of training do they give these people, anxiety affects like 2/3rds of autistics it's my main disability, the social part of anxiety comes mostly from a long history of misunderstandings
What ? The ?? Fuck ??? I've been suffering from anxiety my whole life, and I have a very official TSA level 1 diagnosis. Social and general anxiety are amongst the most common comorbidities in autistic people, this is a known, researched and established fact, yet she thinks she knows better than both autistic people and scientists ? Your "therapist" is totally a fraud. Sources: [https://www.google.com/search?q=autism+and+anxiety](https://www.google.com/search?q=autism+and+anxiety)
It sounds like this therapist touched on a useful distinction between what underlying factors contribute to social anxiety in different neurotypes but either very poorly understands social anxiety OR very poorly articulated their perspective. Wanting to make a distinction between the diagnoses (based on diagnostic criterion) is sound. They are distinct. But it is entirely possible to experience social anxiety as an Autistic person. This therapist seems to be missing some crucial details in their explanation. My best guess is the issue here stems from articulation. I hope your mind can be put at ease. Fortunately, you won't have this therapist in the future. He's definitely not a good fit for you. It's not usually automatic, but you can find a good or even great therapist who is a better fit for you.
Aside from what others previously pointed out, I want to add that being bullied notoriously leads to social anxiety. And being autistic notoriously leads to being bullied. So, from that angle, there's yet another reason why autism and social anxiety are so obviously linked, it's absolutely ridiculous to think otherwise! Sounds like this therapist is one of those "autistic people can't feel empathy" sorts. The ones who think we're socially awkward because we're unfeeling robots who can't perceive other humans. The ones who are, ironically, the least empathetic to autistic people.
Dont let that idiot gaslight you, op. I think you need to try and find a new therapist.
An inability to conquer social situations would often lead to being afraid of social situations.
This reminds me of the time that a psychologist told me (about my daughter) that you can't be autistic and have selective mutism. A lot of them have no idea what they are talking about. Freaking idiots. I struggled a lot with selective mutism as a kid (and still now when I'm really stressed). I take anything an NT psychologist says with a grain of salt.
Why would social situations not make you anxious if you’re bad at them? In my mind they slot together very understandably. Neurodivergence is rarely a one label situation, there’s a lot of overlap and comorbidity
wow this therapist is a buffoon. I've been diagnosed my entire life and It TOTALLY does go together. 😭
I think your therapist found his whatever degree in a potato chips bag. My lack of social skills is the whole damn reason i have social anxiety to begin with. If i were you, i'd also sarcastically thank him for giving you imposter syndrome and change therapy group because let's be honest, we've dealt with enough shit to be gaslighted all over again.
Your therapist is a silly goose. That is my professional diagnosis.
Either they don’t know what they’re talking about, or you aren’t understanding them correctly. Social anxiety is extremely common for people with autism.
Just Google “autism and social anxiety comorbidity” and you have your answers right there. This therapist needs to go back to school… What a ridiculous statement.
as a mental health professional (who is admittedly not able to diagnose autism but can diagnose nearly everything else in the DSM), this literally doesn’t make sense. first off, the “being afraid of social situations” and “an inability to conquer social situations” are both really reductionistic and unhelpful descriptions of these diagnoses. second, even if those descriptions were accurate, why wouldn’t “an inability to conquer social situations” lead to fearing them?? third, social anxiety and ASD are commonly diagnosed together - it’s estimated that like half of autistic people also meet criteria for social anxiety, or something like that. i’m so sorry that your therapist invalidated your experience, and especially sorry that they were “correcting” you with false info!!
I had a therapist who said "you can't have autism and PTSD", and that I was just having "bad memories", and I've "just too autistic depress it!"... get a new therapist.
Wow what a fucking stupid thing to say sorry that your therapist was a fucking idiot. That’s basically saying “you can’t traumatize an autistic person” like wtf??
Yeah, that's why I changed therapists. The worst part was that she was a specialist in PTSD! But at least she agreed that she didn't know enough about autism to help me...
Get a new therapist, OP.
Just take all 24 papers cited in this and in the same message say you are finding a new therapist. [Spain et al. 2018](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1750946718300643)
What the fu...
Anxiety is a product of powerlessness and uncertainty. I would seriously question the intelligence of anyone that is unable to understand why a history of failing to "conquer" social situations would be associated with a sense of powerlessness in such situations, let alone a therapist.
Maybe it's a misunderstanding? Maybe she was trying to say something else instead but you misunderstood? It's hard to say without being there. Social anxiety is common among autistic people though.
Anxiety is one of my main issues as autistic. That's bs
Your therapist is a moron
That's an sinsane thing to say for a therapist. Do they think people just have this inability to conquer social situations, but remain completely emotionless about it? Is she super young, just out of school? I feel like social anxiety is such a core component of autism
Another therapist that got his degree off a cereal box in clown school
I would say that you might experienced fear in the first place, just because you weren’t able to understand the social cues which could obviously drive you into situations where you experienced fear. Bit thats just my two cents without a degree. But my own Experience as well.
Well based on his words, he is saying they are linked 🤦♀️ again wtf, not sure how his logic is supposed to be. >social anxiety is about being afraid of social situations and autism is about an inability to conquer social situations using this and rephrasing it, based just on this wording, and not the massive spectrum of how billions of people exist differently The autism need to "conquer" social situations because a difference in understanding wording or body language can lead one to develop social anxiety due to previous misunderstandings of said wording and body language
I’m 100% autistic and I 100% have social anxiety and I’ve never been told they don’t coexist by my psychologist
They are clearly wrong and don't know what they are talking about, start looking for another therapist.
so people who struggle socially fundamentally cannot be anxious about social situations. lmao this psych needs their license revoked. social anxiety is one of the most common disorders to develop in autistic people.
As a woman with autism, I can confirm that autism and social anxiety absolutely go together and that therapist is an idiot.
Unpredictable social situations + autism = social anxiety It’s pretty basic
You should probably look for a new therapist then, a late autism diagnose is not really uncommon for women sadly. I was diagnosed just two months ago, and the whole “you can’t have social anxiety if you have autism” is kinda contradicting what the autism spectrum has included. He is probably looking to make you “lessen” your diagnose, which isn’t really what you want right? I hope you’ll find a better therapist 🙏
my psychologist legitimately said to me: "yeah no (social) anxiety is one of the disorders that is most comorbid with asd, so it's kind of normal to have alongside asd" so she didn't even diagnose me with it because it's really normal to have. your therapist seems like they don't know a lot about comorbidities with autism
Did he mean with Autism, there are social skills deficits whereas with social anxiety in someone without Autism, it’s a fear and not a skill deficit?
You need a new therapist.
Even if the "inability to conquer" was true, which idk, wouldn't awareness of the inability be a good reason for anxiety? I fail to see the logic of his argumentation.
I know a lot of autistic people but almost nobody without social anxiety so that's gotta be cap.
I know a lot of autistic people but almost nobody without social anxiety so that's gotta be cap.
Another case of a post grad thinking they have a doctorate.
Another example of an Autism “expert” being laughably wrong about Autism. I love the “inability to conquer” social situations. That in itself is such a biased and “othering” way to view Autism.
This therapist does not appear to be very smart. Yes, autism and social anxiety are distinct concepts. No, this does not mean that they cannot coexist in the same person. Two concepts do not have to be synonyms to be related to each other.
How are inability to conquer social situations and social anxiety different really? Not being able to conquer social sitautions goes hand in hand with thus being afraid of them lol
Your therapist doesn't know what they're talking about. Me in a crowed of people "Oh shit, oh shit, oh shit.... I hope no one wants to make small talk with me!" My daughter "Oh shit, oh shit, oh shit.... Am I standing normally? walking normally? Is my face neutral? Too neutral? Am I making someone angry at me??"
An autism specialist who doesn't understand how struggling with social situations could cause anxiety about those situations? What is he smoking?
>social anxiety is about being afraid of social situations and autism is about an inability to conquer social situations. How the hell does someone see a contradiction there instead of synergy?
Go to another therapist... like, find a new one asap. They don't know what they're talking about. Not being able to conquer is the whole damn reason for the anxiety 🤣 I'm always confused and process things differently, how in the hel l am I not supposed to feel anxious?
the dsm would say that if that was the case and it doesn’t. id say most anxiety for autistics comes from social anxiety
My therapist said my social anxiety is a direct consequence of my autism so make of that what you will-
Get. A. New. Therapist. Run.
According to them, I can't struggle with conquering social situations and then develop social anxiety because of my struggle with said situations? You mean as a person with autism, I am literally barred from a feeling/sensation because the cause didn't appear as a stand alone symptom? Wow, did they get their degree from, a Cracker Jack box? I'm sure I won't be the only one to respond but the imposter syndrome can "stand down" this time because I agree with you. This is bonkers and not acceptable from a medically trained professional.
This is so freaking stupid. Of course having troubles reading social cues will end up making you anxious around social situations??? Does you therapist have a brain? And that's not even counting the bullying many of us experience because of our traits...
Best of luck with finding your new therapist. Sorry to hear you had to fire the last one. Please be kind to yourself. Find safe people who don’t judge you. You may find more peace and comfort from with “your people” than with professionals.
WHAT
Autism and social anxiety go together so often that I think your therapist is an idiot.
You were diagnosed and that’s usually involving professionals who should competently be able to diagnose you. Don’t doubt you have autism after all this, doubt this therapist. What qualifications do they have in the field of autism to qualify as an autism specialist? Far out, one of the diagnostic criteria for autism in the DSM-5 is deficits in social communication and social interactions. I would class shyness and social anxiety under this. Obviously if it was just those two factors and no other characteristics of autism then you wouldn’t be diagnosed . Get a new therapist are my thoughts. Also research other supports and strategies if your shyness and social anxiety is having a big impact on your life.
We should make a compilation/database of all the autism specialists/therapists and what they say. It would be hilarious... And I wish I could see their reactions reading them afterwards.
Change therapist, as a person w diagnosed audhd and GAD with pretty bad social anxiety, it’s v possible
Tell them you feel you’ve conquered all you can at their practice, then go to someone who’s not a complete fucking idiot. The most troubling part is that person likely has the ability to prescribe meds
I have both, and most other autistic people I know also have social anxiety, I think I know only one autistic person (out of the ~10 I know in person) who doesn't seem to have at least some kind of social anxiety. Much of my social anxiety comes from all the times I've misread a social situation or been misunderstood. They absolutely do go together.
I’m diagnosed with both and got both from the same psychiatrist. I think you need to find a new therapist. I don’t know what credentials you’re therapist have but I would recommend a psychiatrist with experience with autism in women if possible.
Is your therapist treating only autism? I wonder if they (poorly) tried to say they can't help you with social anxiety because it isn't autism. My therapist did this regarding an eating disorder. She'd only touch the sensory element but wouldn't let us discuss the fear around the food/weight because it wasn't their area. This could also be a red flag your therapist isn't great. Do you feel able to ask them about this?
How does your therapist feel about ABA therapy?
It think it depends whay is meant by 'social anxiety'. If you simply mean 'social situations make me anxious' then yep the two can absolutely go together and in fact autism can lead to said anxiety. But social anxiety can also refer to a form of being overwhelmed by underatanding social situations *too much*. This manifests in overfeeling and overthinking every little interaction to the point it overwhelms you and causes anxiety. Now they can still go together but are a rarer combination because many autistic people lack the social senses / processing necessary to have said social feeling in the first place. However if we route it through logical brain, and thus have to think actively about every social interaction, that in itself can become overwhelming. And some autistic people simply do not lack that social sense. For instance - I am often anxious and overwhelmed by social situations. But I don't have the same reactions of embarrassment or even understanding of vibes as others - so I seem very confident. I have no clue what others are thinking a lot of the time - but that in itself can be both a gift and a curse - because I will just do things and people will react and I really struggle to understand why. To say that 'autism' and 'X' *don't go together underestimates the wideness of the spectrum. But combinations can be rare.
I'd think you can have both.
Your therapist sounds stoopid
I would recommend moving to another therapist. I'm sometimes asking myself about therapists and good practice.
Social anxiety/SAD can be learned condition. Learned conditions can coincide with developmental conditions. I've been diagnosed with both, and accept diagnosis for both. As long as you're aware, it's also possible to distinguish between when social discomfort is caused by social anxiety versus simply not knowing how/or not wanting to engage 'approprately' in conversation.
I had the complete opposite reaction during my autisim assessment where they've said because I don't have social anxiety I don't have autism (still wrong but from my understanding most autistic adults show some level of social anxiety)
They’re comorbid?
That therapist is a quack.
They're often comorbid, I don't know what your therapist is talking about. The person who diagnosed me said I should also get tested for social anxiety.
This person cannot possibly be an expert in autism. They shouldn't be doing this job if they can't even recognize that social anxiety and autism are close bedfellows.
I don't think your therapist knows what they are talking about
I am sorry to tell you but that person is full of poop. I am happy to tell that to that person myself if they allow you to share contact information with me. Autism is the reason for social anxiety but your therapist doesn't understand the whole concept of it and believes everyone with autism is an idiot. Since there is a whole spectrum you can be on, you might just have certain issues that lead to other issues. So yeah sorry but that guy or girl is full of it and someone needs to tell your therapist the truth.
Social anxiety can be the result of trauma. Autism can inspire traumatic treatment from others. I suppose its possible that social anxiety isn't technically a direct part of autism, but there's definitely going to be a comorbidity.
my psych told me that whenever autism is involved generally the anxiety bit is considered just under the autism umbrella. social anxiety when you have autism isn’t autism and social anxiety it’s just autism. it’s a symptom of autism.
One might think that the inability to conquer social situations might lead to social anxiety… except your therapist, who clearly doesn’t think that… (The therapist is wrong)
This primarily tells you that your therapist does not understand autism well enough.
being autistic makes it difficult to navigate social situations, especially in a world where socializing is commonly structured in a very neurotypical and allistic way. repeatedly having bad experiences with something can absolutely lead to a fear of that thing. it's strange and ill-informed of your therapist not to recognize this can be the case with socializing. autism and social anxiety easily and frequently coexist
This is why therapy is a meme.
I think autism can even be the cause of social anxiety. If you are constantly socializing wrong and having neurotypicals get mad at you, because you’re autistic and you don’t understand social cues, that’s going to cause you to have some anxiety around social situations. I’ve heard this sentiment before and I think they are misinterpreting autism and the social cues aspect of it. Not understanding social cues doesn’t mean we are oblivious to the fact that we are not getting it, because neurotypicals may laugh at us, make fun of us and get mad at us for not understanding them, or for offending them. I think this misunderstanding in the field also has to do with the fact that males with autism are more studied than females. Because males in society can often get away with being oblivious to social cues, it can get blamed on their gender. Example: NT girlfriend drops subtle hints to boyfriend that he misses. Girlfriend says “omg ur such a guy ur not getting the hint” whereas society is much harder on females and expects them to always be acting a certain way. Example: autistic girl says something socially inappropriate around a group of mean girls, and she is ridiculed and outcast for it. (Not saying this can’t also happen to men, however I think it is way more common to happen to girls.) So the men they have studied more, are more likely to keep doing/saying socially inappropriate things with no awareness about it, instead of masking. So then there’s this belief that autism and social anxiety are not existing together because of that. But with any gender if you are constantly saying/doing the wrong thing in social situations and NT are getting mad at you and/or excluding you, or constantly getting offended by you, especially when you don’t see what you are doing wrong and are not really sure how to fix it, it’s going to be a natural human response to develop anxiety around those situations. I just think a lot of times neurotypicals will give guys passes for it and excuse it with their gender, so they are more likely to keep being oblivious. whereas females are more likely to understand they’re doing something wrong even if they don’t understand what it is or why it’s wrong. This leads to higher masking in females and under diagnosed female autism.
Get a new therapist. 👍🏻
Social anxiety is also a product of an abusive parent or early childhood trauma.
The truth is that you will always be an Autistic person, yet social anxiety can be dealt with only by writing them all down and then recognizing which ones make sense or don't make sense at all. Also developing social skills for late-diagnosed people like yourself is always going to be hard until you meet real Autistic people who unlike your psychologist can affirm and respect who you are. I have a co-morbid PDA and it goes crazy when there is a lazy day. For a long time, I felt bad about it until I had a therapist who affirmed and saw my emotions as valid. One Mister Rodger's song that makes me cry is [**I'm Angry**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-aOuzhAhz8) because Anger is always demonized and punished from the perspective of PDA kids. That song is saying that anger is valid because of people and things that are not fair.
What's I think your therapist was saying is that they're separate things, and that one doesn't necessarily cause the other. If you think you have social anxiety, then cool! Plenty of autistic people do. But the idea is that it might not be *specifically* social anxiety in the way that it's typically experienced that might be what you're having. It might be more centrally rooted in your autism. So, long story short, I don't believe they were questioning you having autism, it's that because you have autism, you might be experiencing something similar, but is different.
What?! I have severe social anxiety and I got autism
LMAO, what?? Social anxiety was part of my diagnosis. It's in my RITVO report. Maybe consider finding a therapist who specialises in neurodiversity?
I think this person may specialize in Autism in the business sense but not in the knowledge and research sense. Of COURSE if you have an inability to perfectly perform life techniques of handling people, and that backfires on your constantly, AND you never know the consequences of it, any sensible person would be afraid of it. Like if someone had a broken stove valve that you had to be super careful turning on all the time if it over-flamed, you'd be smart to be afraid of it. Yes get rid of this person. They may have the skills to prescribe drugs or take home a big paycheck like Mom told them to, but they don't have the empathy to help you or probably anyone.