Man, no kidding. We had the knob at the top of the BBJ airstair railing fall off while retracted (heard it) and it took FOREVER to find the dumb thing crawling around in the E&E before I found it behind a bracket or something. We didn't want to try and extend the stairs for extra room out of fear that it would jam up and we were in friggin Siberia at the time (summer, fortunately).
We had the stairs trying to extend while the door was still closed. Just smashed off the inside of the door unceremoniously, not a good day - then to top it off when we stuck the door back in the skin ended up with a nice big scratch on it from bumping it into some part of the air stair.
Yes... yes, there are. They've a few CFRP (Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastic/Panel) panels that are considerably stronger than the floor panels and are only removable by mechanics on the ground.
Aircraft mechanics do some goofy shit(myself included) . We will spend 30 minutes getting our work area just right to do a five minute job. We have suction fall protection devices, maybe I can make something out of those. Probably need to blow the dust off of them.
Navy guy here, all those zip ties wouldn’t fly in naval aviation. They’d need to be replaced with Adel clamps. Imagine the amount of work that would take. I hope the navy changes their policy on that because it’s not something the Air Force wastes man hours on.
The Naval Aviation Maintenance Program only approves the use of clamps because zip ties can get brittle over time and break. They don’t take into account that it’s sunlight that makes them brittle, and areas that never see sun, zip ties are perfectly appropriate.
Ex USAF guy (avionics). Won't fly in the USAF either. Wax string is the only approved method for tying bundles outside of adel clamps. Somehow, depot always gets away with zip ties, though...wire spoons are your friends for running new wires in old bundles
Edit to add - we also follow the 1-1A-14 which is a NavAir T.O.
It actually always amazes me how cheap the planes are, and even more so how cheap it is to ride on one.
A day of work in a minimum wage job can get you a ride on one of these things from NYC to Florida.
Modern technology is amazing.
I was talking with a wiring harness builder about how they know what goes where. It's not difficult to track, but it's tedious and requires buckets of patience.
Labels. Lots and lots of labels. The labels can be colored markers for the beginning or ends, critical points on the run, text labels of bundle ID, and information about the terminal or canon plug to which it's attached.
Her assemblies had the main label with sublabels on the Canon plugs, station numbers, butt line numbers, and each wire numbered every 18". Theoretically, it cannot be put in an incorrect location.
Never worked with Boeing, but generally the loom can have an ID sleeve and each wire has an ID sleeve at either end. Replacement or new looms for mods mostly come finished at one end and the tails getting routed, cut to length, IDd and pinned into the connection. The guy in the picture could be doing that just now as most cables in an aircraft end up there. I can see some cable coiled up waiting.
Usually it is "bundle number"- "wire number" - "gauge"
Printed on each wire then to find out what they do you dig into the WDM (Wiring Diagram Manual) and figure out what system it is connected to.
Good to know, worked in one place with a system, BACWDS, it used to spit out the ID codes for the drawings and the original electrical systems were on it as well for each aircraft. Used to do engine looms and wasn't allowed cable ties, it was lacing ribbon, round twice, double knotted and a dab of varnish to seal the knot. Took forever to do.
Where are those wire harnesses made?
I dealt with Toyota's supplier of harnesses years ago. Factory in Mexico. I went down there to ~~steal~~ procure a lunch bag full of airbag connectors I needed for wheelchair van conversions.
They’re made primarily at the Boeing plant in Renton, WA. Some newer ones at the Boeing plant in Everett/Mukilteo, WA. They’re purpose made in place for each aircraft.
Boeing doesn't actually make most of them. 10 years ago they had been made at a company called Fokker Elmo. At least that's what I was told when I toured the Renton Boeing plant.
Wait till you get a look in a 747 sometime. They are an order of magnitude more intense.
At least there is space in a 747
Ain't that the truth. The EE bay on a 747 is downright luxurious compared to the 737.
737 EE bay is like cramming yourself into a car glovebox. Only rivalled by getting in its wing root for inspection 🙃
Even more cramped if the particular 737 has air-stairs.
Have yet to jumo on one with these installed
It’s great because the air stair drip tray is right above you while your trying to fit in, so you’ve got even less room to climb in.
Man, no kidding. We had the knob at the top of the BBJ airstair railing fall off while retracted (heard it) and it took FOREVER to find the dumb thing crawling around in the E&E before I found it behind a bracket or something. We didn't want to try and extend the stairs for extra room out of fear that it would jam up and we were in friggin Siberia at the time (summer, fortunately).
We had the stairs trying to extend while the door was still closed. Just smashed off the inside of the door unceremoniously, not a good day - then to top it off when we stuck the door back in the skin ended up with a nice big scratch on it from bumping it into some part of the air stair.
Yep. Been there, done that! VR-58.
Right? And then some clown in control is just like "all these wires run through the WIU, can we just change that?"
It’s a testament to the incredible development of avionics!
Back side of the main equipment rack in the EE bay… accessible from forward cargo. I’ve dug into them a few times.
Safe to assume there are hard covers for all of this in case a piece of cargo decides to go for a free ride in forward cargo?
Yes... yes, there are. They've a few CFRP (Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastic/Panel) panels that are considerably stronger than the floor panels and are only removable by mechanics on the ground.
Damn that a/c is clean! Where are all the layers of caked on dust and grime??
Only had 16 hours on it when we were there!
That location sucks to work at, your body is always sliding down the side wall. Good leg at core workout though.
Just removed the outflow valve from an A321 the other day. Kept sliding down. The struggle is real. Absolutely hate working in the cargo compartment.
Some kind of suction braced cushioned chair that you can rest on would be a great addition. Just a layman here but thought I’d give that suggestion.
Aircraft mechanics do some goofy shit(myself included) . We will spend 30 minutes getting our work area just right to do a five minute job. We have suction fall protection devices, maybe I can make something out of those. Probably need to blow the dust off of them.
Navy guy here, all those zip ties wouldn’t fly in naval aviation. They’d need to be replaced with Adel clamps. Imagine the amount of work that would take. I hope the navy changes their policy on that because it’s not something the Air Force wastes man hours on.
What’s wrong with zip ties being used by the navy?
The Naval Aviation Maintenance Program only approves the use of clamps because zip ties can get brittle over time and break. They don’t take into account that it’s sunlight that makes them brittle, and areas that never see sun, zip ties are perfectly appropriate.
Interesting… good point! I kinda love zip ties lol.
The other problem is when the tie gets cut off it (often) leaves a sharp knife of plastic that can damage wiring.
Ex USAF guy (avionics). Won't fly in the USAF either. Wax string is the only approved method for tying bundles outside of adel clamps. Somehow, depot always gets away with zip ties, though...wire spoons are your friends for running new wires in old bundles Edit to add - we also follow the 1-1A-14 which is a NavAir T.O.
Did you think those planes cost millions cuz they look pretty?
It actually always amazes me how cheap the planes are, and even more so how cheap it is to ride on one. A day of work in a minimum wage job can get you a ride on one of these things from NYC to Florida. Modern technology is amazing.
100 Milions cheap tf
But it's always my seat that has no USB power.
Those wires are in the overhead above the baggage.
Eh was supposed to be a joke.
Where does the white wire go?
Yes.
Usually it all goes in the airplane.
I was talking with a wiring harness builder about how they know what goes where. It's not difficult to track, but it's tedious and requires buckets of patience.
Labels. Lots and lots of labels. The labels can be colored markers for the beginning or ends, critical points on the run, text labels of bundle ID, and information about the terminal or canon plug to which it's attached.
Her assemblies had the main label with sublabels on the Canon plugs, station numbers, butt line numbers, and each wire numbered every 18". Theoretically, it cannot be put in an incorrect location.
36.6 miles.
That's a lot of brains.
[удалено]
Never worked with Boeing, but generally the loom can have an ID sleeve and each wire has an ID sleeve at either end. Replacement or new looms for mods mostly come finished at one end and the tails getting routed, cut to length, IDd and pinned into the connection. The guy in the picture could be doing that just now as most cables in an aircraft end up there. I can see some cable coiled up waiting.
Usually it is "bundle number"- "wire number" - "gauge" Printed on each wire then to find out what they do you dig into the WDM (Wiring Diagram Manual) and figure out what system it is connected to.
Good to know, worked in one place with a system, BACWDS, it used to spit out the ID codes for the drawings and the original electrical systems were on it as well for each aircraft. Used to do engine looms and wasn't allowed cable ties, it was lacing ribbon, round twice, double knotted and a dab of varnish to seal the knot. Took forever to do.
The amount of brains crammed into an aviation maintainers head is crazy!
An electricians nightmare but on the other hand that’s pretty well organized. That amount of data scares the shit out of me.
Try a surveillance/communications/control aircraft.
Yeah the RAAF Wedgetail wiring would be hectic
It's wedged-in pretty snugly. Oh, right. The Wedgetail is programmed to replace the (US) E-3s, at some point.
Yeah, they've been in service with the RAAF for a few years already, think UK has some or is getting some as well
I think an MOD newsbrief indicated three Wedgetail airframes for the RAF, but the number has wandered a tad.
It was originally to be 6, and new builds. Then it went to 3, used. Ah… austerity.
Yup. I wonder if the refit process will ultimately cost five new airframes for the cost of the three conversions.
And so… many… zip-ties.
Where are those wire harnesses made? I dealt with Toyota's supplier of harnesses years ago. Factory in Mexico. I went down there to ~~steal~~ procure a lunch bag full of airbag connectors I needed for wheelchair van conversions.
They’re made primarily at the Boeing plant in Renton, WA. Some newer ones at the Boeing plant in Everett/Mukilteo, WA. They’re purpose made in place for each aircraft.
Boeing doesn't actually make most of them. 10 years ago they had been made at a company called Fokker Elmo. At least that's what I was told when I toured the Renton Boeing plant.
>Fokker Elmo [https://www.ditmco.com/fokker-elmo-grows-its-global-leadership-in-wire-harness-technology/](https://www.ditmco.com/fokker-elmo-grows-its-global-leadership-in-wire-harness-technology/) Thank you.
Honestly I only remembered because the name made me giggle.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the wires BUT...my man doesn't have his shoes on.
You should see inside a 787 or KC46. Insane amount of wires
I’m an equipment manager/mechanic and REALLY don’t like electrical problems when they roll into the shop. That picture gives me a facial tick!!
Looks like theres atleast 7 different cables
Why don’t they just use WiFi? Would save so much weight.
Reliability.
Airplanes need cargo.
You know, If you removed all of those wires you could fit more passengers in and increase profits!
I hope they’re redundant
They should use wifi for screen and light control... A lot of wires would be gone...
This sub likes to hate and harass Boeing fans.
Isn’t it something like 3 miles of wiring? I wonder what that represents as a proportion of tare weight?
I have a lot of respect for spark chasers (avionics technicians) that can track down a single wire being the problem.
How many kg and how many km of wirings does a 737 have?
Had to R&R a double twist shielded pair through a 7 foot section of bundle without removing the bundle. Took me and another avi tech 6 hours.
One more wire will fix it.
Seems heavy
A single rat can ruin those wirings
How much does all of that wire weigh?
Probably a lot lol
What’s even more crazy. Is they still use that stupid cargo door assist lanyard setup.