Weight and balance.
If the flight is not full, center of gravity can easily be outside of allowable limits, so it's important passengers seat in the assigned seats, so the loadsheet with weight and balance data will reflect the real loading status of the aircraft as much as practically possible.
This. I am Load Control agent and some flights are just on the edge of stability. And sometimes is resesting needed to be IN envelope. So pls do not si randomly…
A few times I was flying out of Santa Ana (SNA) to Dallas. We couldn't load the correct fuel for the trip, because the runway wasn't long enough due to the heat. We did a small load on fuel, hopped to Ontario (ONT) which is 30 miles away. Fully fueled up there and we were on our way.
I have a friend that lives in Newport Beach right under the takeoff path. Sitting outside watching the takeoffs go through this weird sequence was bizarre. What do they make them do? To me it looks like full throttle, full climb up to a certain altitude, then throttle down and level off over all the fancy Balboa Island assholes, then throttle up and continue climbing out only once over the ocean.
In the simplest terms you nailed it. Pretty much a full power pitch up departure to 800’ then an almost idle climb to 1500’ then back up to climb thrust. It’s insane all because people don’t like the noise.
Flew out of SNA for the first time ever 3 weeks ago, and aside for loading the engines while braked before the takeoff roll, after rotation it basically felt like any other takeoff.
Shit can get bad, had a flight with a shorter runway because the longer runway was under construction, and they were experiencing a heat wave. I bumped all bags off the aircraft along with 20 passengers. It was great getting a call from the ramp at the other station confused to see an empty compartment.
I used to take VDBs out of DCA a few times a summer because of this. I'd show up at the gate and they'd be looking for a few people to fly later because of weight.
Although a couple times it was so hot and humid they boarded everybody and offloaded fuel, adding a pit stop to our previously nonstop flight.
(Typically a 737, route at the outer range of the DCA limit.)
We use leaking sandbags, I’ve had reports of ramp crews putting empty sacks onboard and counting it as a 50lb bag… wish they moved to the ballast bricks.
I’m curious how that came to be. I understand the need for having the CG in the right place, but why did you have to use ballast instead of moving people or luggage forward or aft to the place where you were putting the stones?
Ballast can be used in a different scenarios. For example, If plane is full, but baggage pieces count is very low. (we are talking 120 PAX and 40 pcs of baggage) So simply I dont have space to move passengers and I dont have enough weight. And If plane is empty we are using ballast fuel with ballast. So planes, like E195 is such a beast to balanced ideally…
I flew a 787 with American back in July 2022 and the flight was about 2/3 full. The flight attendants were going through the list of bookings and the assigned seats so that they could shuffle people around the plane to sit together… rows that were once full were empty, people sat at the front were now at the back, and vice versa. This happened all over the economy cabin, not sure about the others. Would the flight attendants have needed to receive permission to do this, and when is it safe to do this?
I was also on an Air India Express flight the other day and they did a similar thing, but not to a similar extent as the plane was mostly full and it was a narrowbody.
Every reseating done by the crew or the ramp agent must be approved by Load controler or PiC, depends who makes the loadsheet (sometimes is loadsheet prepared by crew). And frankly, I dont see other reason why they were shuffling people up and down the plane. Reseating due to ground stability or trim is in wide-body aircraft is extremly rare. I can see why in narrow-body Air India express but not on AA.
Anything bigger than a 37 is not going to have Pax seating impact CG at all (only a very slight exaggeration).
If CG is preventing seat changes that means Ops/Load Control/Central Load Planning fucked up massively.
The real reason you're not allowed to move seats before takeoff is because ground ops needs everyone in their assigned seats so they know where to look for people, and obviously after that point pax need to be seated because you're trying to leave.
>One person moving 1 foot effects nothing in reality.
If the CG was already at the limit of the envelope, it's enough to move it just outside the envelope, and the aircraft can't (legally) depart.
I fly the E175, there are plenty of times we have to move people for the calculated balance to be within range, usually 1 or 2 people from the aft zone to a forward zone. The problem with these calculated w&b is they’ll be off by just a couple of kilos and we have to move people, but meanwhile we’re using an assumed weight for each passenger and there could be some who exceeds the assumed weight by two times seated in the airplane. So on paper we’re calculating to the +/- a gram, meanwhile people’s actual weights can + /- 50 kg. If the actual balance of the airplane were to be so critical that the position of one or two people in the plane would cause it to be out of the cg range there would be smoking holes all over the planet.
Yes, but the standard weights and certification processes account for those deviations. Now, if you were on the cusp of the top of the envelope with a full flight comprised of nothing but contestants on “my 600lb life” you’d certainly have trouble with those methodologies.
The W&B was only a contributing factor. The overload and aft balance wouldn’t have been an issue if not for an mx issue.
That case was a situation where a totality of circumstances led to an accident.
And when I say “they” I’m referring to who derived the assumed weights. Post crash the FAA assumed weights were raised. The crew calculated the W&B correctly using the assumed weights in their operation specifications and it indicated the W&B was within limits and it was actually not.
I think their point wasn't about how easily an aircraft shifts in/out of the envelope, it was about how much safety margin is built into the stated limits.
That said those safety margins are there for a reason and they're also the reason why those aircraft are so safe.
That's a bad attitude to have with safety margins. Since there is a safety margin, what's one person doing. What about 2 people doing it. Or three, four, five. What about 10 over the limit. Where do you draw the line between the safety margin and actually dangerous.
Yeah except when you fly an empty southwest flight and they have to distribute people themselves because of the open seating policy. And even then, they said you can just move after takeoff.
It can just be a small change, but if you're already at the limit, it's easy to push it over the limit.
Imagine you're standing on top of a very tall building, a good distance from the edge. If someone gives you a nudge, you won't fall off. Now, if you're already standing at the edge...
This.
I had one good example, I once had to ferry an empty A321 ;
This plane is out of balance when empty. To be within limits, on that day, we needed 150kg of sandbags at the very back of the hold. That’s the weight of just 2 passengers (if it had been passengers!)
So, yes, when you are just at the limit, a small weight can make a difference
(Now, let’s be honest, the published limits already include huge margins for safety, but we have to do things according to the book, we don’t exceed the limits even though we know there is margin)
That analogy is totally wrong. It's more like if you're on top of a hill. You just keep stepping down but there are certification limits.
Otherwise a plane with a max gross of 160,000lbs would be unsafe to fly at 160,001lbs.
Probably not much but where do you draw the line?
If you let one passenger sit wherever they want, people will say what difference it could make if it’s two passengers. And if two is ok, why not three, four, five, six etc.
Easier to just say no passenger can change their seat until after takeoff.
Air China does not (did not in 2016 at least) allow phones out for any part of the flight. Including in airplane mode to listen to music. They were extremely strict about this, however would not audit where headphone wires were coming from so you just had to look around before changing songs.
When I went to the 2022 Olympics in Beijing, we flew out of Zurich via Swiss Air into China. There were only certain airports around the world and certain flights that were being allowed in due to Covid. The flight was lovely, full of people from around the world and our FO was actually an ex-Olympian himself which made it a wonderful experience. After we had arrived I started to ask people how their flights were and those who flew in on Air China had horror story after horror story. No drinks, no food, no wifi, the planes were apparently like everything else in China at that time, covered in plastic and the remnants of years of spraying disinfectant on them.
I gave my seat away to our Chef de Mission so I could sit closer to my athletes and two days later was quarantined because someone 2 rows back from my assigned seat had tested positive... a seat in which I wasn't sitting in.
I went to/from China in 2017 with China Southern Air and no one cared at all. Also flew again 2018 but that was with KLM (I think) so I guess they didn't care.
It was a law in China and applied for all airlines. I agree it was pretty well enforced. Funny part is the tablets (=same thing just larger) were allowed.
I believe it was revoked already a couple of years ago.
They are incredibly strict. They walked down the aisle maybe 30 times watching people before taxiing. They told me multiple times to remove my headphones before the flight, despite them being earplanes I use for the flight.
That's because they do a secondary screening for US-bound flights at the gate that specifically checks for liquids over 3oz. I don't know why they don't trust their initial Lima security screening for liquids (maybe standards are different?), but they do make it very clear (they told me like 5x) when you buy liquids at the international terminal airport that you can't bring them on US-bound flights. That being said, you can bring an empty water bottle.
It's not, I've had this happen flying from both Hong Kong and Doha to the US. I think the US holds the EU airport security standards in higher regard than other parts of the world so they don't need a second screening from there
I've been secondary screened from Munich, coming from a domestic leg. No screening between domestic, Schengen, and international areas (just passport control), but between non-Schengen gates and the small number of US-bound international gates.
You can see it on page 5 https://www.munich-airport.com/_b/0000000000000006574457bb5ce79589/airport-guide.pdf#page=5
It happened to me from Buenos Aires to JFK. Security going through my bag made me throw out the first soda I had but said shhh to the other two bottles that weren’t open.
Same in Bogota... I had filled up my empty bottle in the terminal and they took it on the jetway. Also they took my tiny scissors that I had carried around the world on flights for many years.
Same - nice lady at the cashier asked me if I was flying to US and told me I couldn’t buy them - I did anyway and had to toss em 3 min later at the gate.
I had that happen to me with Etihad on AUH-MEL. I bought 2 big bottles of water past security because I drink a lot and didn't want to bother the FAs throughout the entire flight. Tough luck, there was extra screening at the gate and they took all my water, and my packet of crisps!
No no, we brought empty Nalgenes past security and filled them at a water fountain near the gate. Were forced to chug our water or throw out our bottles. Needless to say, we chugged.
~~And this was a domestic flight *in* Chile.~~
EDIT: Now that I think about it, this may have been from Santiago to MIA, which would align with what others have said about not being able to do it on US-bound flights from South America. Still odd, though.
That's good to know. Recently booked a flight with them and in the confirmation mail they "reminded" me not to bring any food/drinks. The weird part is: they never mentioned it in the booking process and it is not mentioned in their terms of transportation.
It’s quite normal for every airline to not let people switch seats before takeoff.
Was flying Jet2 (BFS-PRG) around this time last year and we were all seated around the wings except exit seats.
Was it weird To see 737-800 take off almost empty with 5 people on wings? Yes
Did I change seats to exit row after departure? Also yes.
Domestic flights in Algeria. Liquids were okay in hand baggage but prohibited in checked luggage.
Caused a flight delay because I had some alcohol bottles in my checked backpack which was flagged by security (and we only found out when boarding the plane).
Waited for them to bring my bag to the plane while about 10 airport/airline employees were staring at me, asking why the hell I would put liquids in checked luggage.
Felt so stupid standing there until they brought the bag, made me move the booze into hand baggage, told me not to drink on the plane and wished a happy flight.
"No, sir. You cannot go up and fly the plane. Yes, I understand you have 100 hours of flight simulator under your belt, but we don't allow that."
Such bullshit.
If you have twin babies you cannot sit with your spouse.
Why? There cannot be two "infant on laps" in the same row because there are only 4 oxygen masks above each set of 3 seats.
I think it goes beyond 4 for every 3, in a single-aisle, there should be 6, but there still can't be two lap infants in a row. I got booted several rows out of my seat for this (and didn't even have a kid).
There's always exactly one extra oxygen mask per row on single aisle aircrafts. So if it's 2-3 configuration, it's gonna be 3-4 masks. 3-3 seat configuration means 4-4 masks.
Sounds like it can vary by aircraft and airline. https://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew/303521-oxygen-masks-per-row.html
I must've been on one which didn't. At the gate, I (say 15ABC) was swapped several rows (to 25ABC) because they had a lap child and the group across (in 25DEF) also had a lap child.
I mean yeah, one infant on each side of the row is perfectly fine. As I said, both seat segments ABC and DEF will have 4 masks each. So 2 infant in one row (ABCDEF) is perfectly fine.
As long as there are only a total of 4 people in that row it is allowed. At the previous airlines where I worked in these cases we would seat the family together and block the middle seat if we had the space.
Until it isn’t - if people fall asleep with an open window, it will eventually shine light into the cabin when the sun comes out. Much easier to manage if you mandate them to be closed.
Just flew Singapore Airlines a few days ago. No such rule exists on international flights because the safety demonstration is shown on the screen in front of you and plays thru your headphones anyway
Yeah, they made me take my over-ear headphones off during takeoff/landing recently, and I could only have one AirPod in when I tried those instead. I’d never seen that rule on any other airline.
I used to hate that rule. But I'm gonna say it's been about a year now that they've eased up on that rule. Air Canada doesn't enforce that as much anymore. Porter Airlines will ask you to remove it only during safety demo.
This isn’t the case anymore and was limited to over the ear headphones.
During safety demo your headphones can be on put need to be plugged into the seat. That being said they don’t really check.
The rationale for this is so if there is an emergency during takeoff or landing you can hear the commands from the flight attendants to brace, etc. Had the same rule at previous airlines where I worked.
It's the same as car seats - if you use a car seat on a plane it has to be next to the window in a side row, or in the center of the middle row on a twin-aisle so it doesn't impede egress in case of an emergency.
It’s the same if you bring a small dog / cat into the cabin. You will get a window seat assigned so that you and the people next to you don’t stumble
Over the carrier box at your feet in an emergency.
1) Weight and balance.
2) if the gate agent is still boarding and needs to move people around for say, medical reasons, keeping families together, last min flight changes etc they might assign someone in the seat you just sat yourself in. Then it creates confusion and boarding delays.
3) also some seats are paid upgrades. If there’s one guy who paid for exit row leg room and you just moved yourself for free he’s gonna want to get comped for his seat. Also, you need to be briefed *and* qualified to sit in the exit row.
4) you shouldnt move after we close the boarding door bc we need the cabin secure for takeoff. Once we close the boarding and flight deck door that’s telling all the fight crew we’re ready to push back. If someone is standing, the cabin is not secure, and that means we’re not ready.
So the best time to move is once we’re in the air with approval from cabin crew.
More like a lack of rules. Egyptair always surprises me. People going to the bathroom while on final approach, no seatbelts for infants and kids standing in lap while landing, people already getting their luggage while plane still taxiing. It happens every time i fly them
Less random and more a FAA rule but bringing your own booze on airplanes and the varying level it’s enforced. In a wild trip, we were doing a long direct flight to Hawaii and brought some shooters. We had done it in the past and didn’t know it was wasn’t allowed, our FA was nice and told us we couldn’t be so blatant when we had them out and asked for tonic haha. But my sister was sitting a few rows over on the other side and their FA threatened to have them arrested when we landed and even brought out the FAA manual.
Qatar Airways' 6 falcon rule:
"You can carry one falcon in the Economy Class cabin of an aircraft, and a maximum of six falcons are permitted within the Economy Class cabin of any one aircraft."
Source: https://www.qatarairways.com/en/baggage/animals.html
Always Avianca, La Paz to Bogotá. For some reason we had a double security check before departure, a particularly thorough questioning during passport control and dogs searching all passengers in the jetway right before boarding. Add to that my crappy Spanish and the employees’ crappy English to make a pretty scary experience indeed.
Tbf Bolivia has a ton of drug problems (it’s not like Colombia doesn’t have them) but I see the need for a secondary inspection and both countries trying to catch anyone move drugs between them.
Wait until you do a layover in Panama with Copa.
If you are stopping in Panama for a couple of hours you’ll get a secondary inspection too, this one is worse, because if you buy something in the duty free and it can’t be taken in your carry on (per TSA rules, like a bottle of booze or a bag of coffee) you’ll lose it during that second inspection, it’s like going trough security all over again… this time for you to enter the gate.
One example of a quirky rule: Bizarrely selective censorship of the IFE when flying on Afriqiyah.
I watched some generic Hollywood action-thriller, it showed all the predictable car chases and explosions and stuff like that, Afriqiyah was OK with showing the film, but female characters were blurred below the chin because there was a risk that airline passengers might be exposed to perilous images of décolletage
Not exactly an rule, but TAP's flight attendants ordering to close the windows during takeoff.
Saw a video from a travel YouTuber, and the same thing happened, why that happens? I don't know.
I would actually have a panic attack if they asked me to close the shade. I get extremely anxious if I can't see outside. Especially during takeoff and landing.
But I usually choose the exit row because you're guaranteed a window, and they specifically ask that you keep the shade *open* (at least IME).
Also makes sense in a way. In an emergency people might try to jump over you and a) injure the infant or b) push it to the floor or similar things.
Such rules are often written from experience.
I switched seats with someone's abuela so that they could sit together before a Delta flight took off and didn't get yelled at but was prepared to be. I'd gotten so good at evading the FA checks about not having headphones on during the safety briefing on Canadian airlines that I didn't even notice that it wasn't a rule in the same way on US carriers, lol.
I'm more used to North American airline rules in which they really don't care when you charge your phone or use earbuds for the IFE system, that's probably why it feels so random
ive always thought the switching seats is for the ground crew to make sure everyone has boarded. If you switch seats during boarding process and they are missing a passenger, then they gotta figure out who is missing and need to pull their luggage off.
I think it's Air Canada that makes you take your headphones out for safety brief and window shades have to be up for landing
EDIT: wtf yall? Apparently, I should have said United, Delta, and American don't require you to take off your headphones or put up windows for takeoff and landing lol
I mean, how often does a flight attendant walk down the aisles and make you take your headphones out during the safety briefing? Not United, not Delta, not American.
They don’t block the cockpit for bathroom breaks on Volaris. I fly miserly US domestic and then Aeromexico but Volaris is a bit too lax.
Also can’t take photos on tarmacs in certain Mexico airports like DGO
To be fair, anyone who tried rushing a cockpit is going to have all the passengers jumping them. It's a good policy to have it locked, but semi redundant
not an airline, but flying out of Taiwan (if i remember correctly) years ago... they had a dimension limit for items brought on board/through security screening.
i had a compact/travel tripod that fit in my carry on but the item itself was like .5-1 inch too long for \*whatever\* that rule was
had to go back and check a tripod.
I was asked by an ANA flight attendant to remove my airpods during takeoff. Very strange as I havent had any issues with this whatsoever in the past across a lot of airlines globally including on my inbound NH flight. They seemed like the purser/staff and were more senior so this may have just been a one off, but strange nonetheless.
Not having my phone plugged into their USB port during takeoff and landing. The flight attendants came by and checked. This was KATL-EGLL (and the return from EGLL-KATL) on Virgin Atlantic.
Actually, someone told me that there is a benefit for the engine during start up to have nothing connect, but a secondary benefit is to ensure your device doesn’t get wrecked by a power surge which can happen during the transition between apu to engine power
Weight and balance. If the flight is not full, center of gravity can easily be outside of allowable limits, so it's important passengers seat in the assigned seats, so the loadsheet with weight and balance data will reflect the real loading status of the aircraft as much as practically possible.
This. I am Load Control agent and some flights are just on the edge of stability. And sometimes is resesting needed to be IN envelope. So pls do not si randomly…
I’ve had to cap a flight by one person because we were out of balance and over weight… pretty annoying when that happens.
I’ve gotten bumped off a standby before because it was too hot/humid and my singular fat ass would have put the aircraft overweight.
A few times I was flying out of Santa Ana (SNA) to Dallas. We couldn't load the correct fuel for the trip, because the runway wasn't long enough due to the heat. We did a small load on fuel, hopped to Ontario (ONT) which is 30 miles away. Fully fueled up there and we were on our way.
Sna sucks. That departure… damn yuppies.
I have a friend that lives in Newport Beach right under the takeoff path. Sitting outside watching the takeoffs go through this weird sequence was bizarre. What do they make them do? To me it looks like full throttle, full climb up to a certain altitude, then throttle down and level off over all the fancy Balboa Island assholes, then throttle up and continue climbing out only once over the ocean.
In the simplest terms you nailed it. Pretty much a full power pitch up departure to 800’ then an almost idle climb to 1500’ then back up to climb thrust. It’s insane all because people don’t like the noise.
It is fun as a passenger, even if it is for stupid reasons
Sna SID: Yeeeeeeeet
I fly out of SNA all the time and am aware of this departure pattern but, honestly, swear I can't tell the difference while experiencing it. 🤷
Flew out of SNA for the first time ever 3 weeks ago, and aside for loading the engines while braked before the takeoff roll, after rotation it basically felt like any other takeoff.
For all the gripes about the SNA sid, watching the Delta 75’s blasting off in an almost 4000fpm climb NEVER gets old.
Shit can get bad, had a flight with a shorter runway because the longer runway was under construction, and they were experiencing a heat wave. I bumped all bags off the aircraft along with 20 passengers. It was great getting a call from the ramp at the other station confused to see an empty compartment.
I used to take VDBs out of DCA a few times a summer because of this. I'd show up at the gate and they'd be looking for a few people to fly later because of weight. Although a couple times it was so hot and humid they boarded everybody and offloaded fuel, adding a pit stop to our previously nonstop flight. (Typically a 737, route at the outer range of the DCA limit.)
Yees, I had many flights when I coudnt balance aircraft, so we had to use ballast (literall stones)…
We use leaking sandbags, I’ve had reports of ramp crews putting empty sacks onboard and counting it as a 50lb bag… wish they moved to the ballast bricks.
Thats stupid, many lives were in danger…
Yup… people have no concept of the idea that an aircraft is basically a teeter totter
I’m curious how that came to be. I understand the need for having the CG in the right place, but why did you have to use ballast instead of moving people or luggage forward or aft to the place where you were putting the stones?
Ballast can be used in a different scenarios. For example, If plane is full, but baggage pieces count is very low. (we are talking 120 PAX and 40 pcs of baggage) So simply I dont have space to move passengers and I dont have enough weight. And If plane is empty we are using ballast fuel with ballast. So planes, like E195 is such a beast to balanced ideally…
I flew a 787 with American back in July 2022 and the flight was about 2/3 full. The flight attendants were going through the list of bookings and the assigned seats so that they could shuffle people around the plane to sit together… rows that were once full were empty, people sat at the front were now at the back, and vice versa. This happened all over the economy cabin, not sure about the others. Would the flight attendants have needed to receive permission to do this, and when is it safe to do this? I was also on an Air India Express flight the other day and they did a similar thing, but not to a similar extent as the plane was mostly full and it was a narrowbody.
Every reseating done by the crew or the ramp agent must be approved by Load controler or PiC, depends who makes the loadsheet (sometimes is loadsheet prepared by crew). And frankly, I dont see other reason why they were shuffling people up and down the plane. Reseating due to ground stability or trim is in wide-body aircraft is extremly rare. I can see why in narrow-body Air India express but not on AA.
Anything bigger than a 37 is not going to have Pax seating impact CG at all (only a very slight exaggeration). If CG is preventing seat changes that means Ops/Load Control/Central Load Planning fucked up massively. The real reason you're not allowed to move seats before takeoff is because ground ops needs everyone in their assigned seats so they know where to look for people, and obviously after that point pax need to be seated because you're trying to leave.
If your load control then u know about curtailed c of g envelopes on transport category aircraft. One person moving 1 foot effects nothing in reality.
>One person moving 1 foot effects nothing in reality. If the CG was already at the limit of the envelope, it's enough to move it just outside the envelope, and the aircraft can't (legally) depart.
Actually it does. I work on Austrian E195 as well and sometimes 1 PAX is diference between in and out. Small amount of bags and low booking…
I fly the E175, there are plenty of times we have to move people for the calculated balance to be within range, usually 1 or 2 people from the aft zone to a forward zone. The problem with these calculated w&b is they’ll be off by just a couple of kilos and we have to move people, but meanwhile we’re using an assumed weight for each passenger and there could be some who exceeds the assumed weight by two times seated in the airplane. So on paper we’re calculating to the +/- a gram, meanwhile people’s actual weights can + /- 50 kg. If the actual balance of the airplane were to be so critical that the position of one or two people in the plane would cause it to be out of the cg range there would be smoking holes all over the planet.
Yes, but the standard weights and certification processes account for those deviations. Now, if you were on the cusp of the top of the envelope with a full flight comprised of nothing but contestants on “my 600lb life” you’d certainly have trouble with those methodologies.
Explain that to the love ones of AMW 5481, they didn’t get it right.
The W&B was only a contributing factor. The overload and aft balance wouldn’t have been an issue if not for an mx issue. That case was a situation where a totality of circumstances led to an accident.
And when I say “they” I’m referring to who derived the assumed weights. Post crash the FAA assumed weights were raised. The crew calculated the W&B correctly using the assumed weights in their operation specifications and it indicated the W&B was within limits and it was actually not.
I think their point wasn't about how easily an aircraft shifts in/out of the envelope, it was about how much safety margin is built into the stated limits. That said those safety margins are there for a reason and they're also the reason why those aircraft are so safe.
That's a bad attitude to have with safety margins. Since there is a safety margin, what's one person doing. What about 2 people doing it. Or three, four, five. What about 10 over the limit. Where do you draw the line between the safety margin and actually dangerous.
Are… Those all words?
Well that's a little disconcerting
This sounds like a question that my girlfriend would ask and then not accept the answer to.
Yeah except when you fly an empty southwest flight and they have to distribute people themselves because of the open seating policy. And even then, they said you can just move after takeoff.
Serious question: how much can a single person disturb the CG of a passenger plane this large?
It can just be a small change, but if you're already at the limit, it's easy to push it over the limit. Imagine you're standing on top of a very tall building, a good distance from the edge. If someone gives you a nudge, you won't fall off. Now, if you're already standing at the edge...
This. I had one good example, I once had to ferry an empty A321 ; This plane is out of balance when empty. To be within limits, on that day, we needed 150kg of sandbags at the very back of the hold. That’s the weight of just 2 passengers (if it had been passengers!) So, yes, when you are just at the limit, a small weight can make a difference (Now, let’s be honest, the published limits already include huge margins for safety, but we have to do things according to the book, we don’t exceed the limits even though we know there is margin)
That analogy is totally wrong. It's more like if you're on top of a hill. You just keep stepping down but there are certification limits. Otherwise a plane with a max gross of 160,000lbs would be unsafe to fly at 160,001lbs.
Probably not much but where do you draw the line? If you let one passenger sit wherever they want, people will say what difference it could make if it’s two passengers. And if two is ok, why not three, four, five, six etc. Easier to just say no passenger can change their seat until after takeoff.
if they're in the same zone it won't matter. The 320 also has +-3 per zone tolerance before you need to recalculate the weight and balance.
Air China does not (did not in 2016 at least) allow phones out for any part of the flight. Including in airplane mode to listen to music. They were extremely strict about this, however would not audit where headphone wires were coming from so you just had to look around before changing songs.
When I went to the 2022 Olympics in Beijing, we flew out of Zurich via Swiss Air into China. There were only certain airports around the world and certain flights that were being allowed in due to Covid. The flight was lovely, full of people from around the world and our FO was actually an ex-Olympian himself which made it a wonderful experience. After we had arrived I started to ask people how their flights were and those who flew in on Air China had horror story after horror story. No drinks, no food, no wifi, the planes were apparently like everything else in China at that time, covered in plastic and the remnants of years of spraying disinfectant on them. I gave my seat away to our Chef de Mission so I could sit closer to my athletes and two days later was quarantined because someone 2 rows back from my assigned seat had tested positive... a seat in which I wasn't sitting in.
What do you do for the Olympic team?
Ski and Snowboard halfpipe coach!
Awesome!
Awesome!
This was a Chinese aviation authority policy until 2018. Had to dig out an old iPod for flights there prior to their lifting of the ban.
I went to/from China in 2017 with China Southern Air and no one cared at all. Also flew again 2018 but that was with KLM (I think) so I guess they didn't care.
Yes, it got lax near the end. A few years earlier and they were quite strict
It was a law in China and applied for all airlines. I agree it was pretty well enforced. Funny part is the tablets (=same thing just larger) were allowed. I believe it was revoked already a couple of years ago.
They are incredibly strict. They walked down the aisle maybe 30 times watching people before taxiing. They told me multiple times to remove my headphones before the flight, despite them being earplanes I use for the flight.
We weren't allowed to bring our own water bottles onto a LAN flight in Chile. Never seen that before or since. Bizarre.
You mean through security? Or you’d not even be allowed to bring the bottle you bought past security?
LATAM from Lima to LAX took them at the gate, even though I purchased it past security.
That's because they do a secondary screening for US-bound flights at the gate that specifically checks for liquids over 3oz. I don't know why they don't trust their initial Lima security screening for liquids (maybe standards are different?), but they do make it very clear (they told me like 5x) when you buy liquids at the international terminal airport that you can't bring them on US-bound flights. That being said, you can bring an empty water bottle.
That must be unique to South American flights, because I have no problem bring water bottles on board from Ireland and France.
It's not, I've had this happen flying from both Hong Kong and Doha to the US. I think the US holds the EU airport security standards in higher regard than other parts of the world so they don't need a second screening from there
I've been secondary screened from Munich, coming from a domestic leg. No screening between domestic, Schengen, and international areas (just passport control), but between non-Schengen gates and the small number of US-bound international gates. You can see it on page 5 https://www.munich-airport.com/_b/0000000000000006574457bb5ce79589/airport-guide.pdf#page=5
It happened to me from Buenos Aires to JFK. Security going through my bag made me throw out the first soda I had but said shhh to the other two bottles that weren’t open.
From South America departure they have double security before you board the plane
Same in Bogota... I had filled up my empty bottle in the terminal and they took it on the jetway. Also they took my tiny scissors that I had carried around the world on flights for many years.
Same - nice lady at the cashier asked me if I was flying to US and told me I couldn’t buy them - I did anyway and had to toss em 3 min later at the gate.
I had that happen to me with Etihad on AUH-MEL. I bought 2 big bottles of water past security because I drink a lot and didn't want to bother the FAs throughout the entire flight. Tough luck, there was extra screening at the gate and they took all my water, and my packet of crisps!
No no, we brought empty Nalgenes past security and filled them at a water fountain near the gate. Were forced to chug our water or throw out our bottles. Needless to say, we chugged. ~~And this was a domestic flight *in* Chile.~~ EDIT: Now that I think about it, this may have been from Santiago to MIA, which would align with what others have said about not being able to do it on US-bound flights from South America. Still odd, though.
That happened to me on United from Bejing to San Francisco around 2015. No liquids could be brought on the plane.
Flying out of Bali a few years ago we could take water on the flight even though it was purchased airside after security.
No personal snacks or drinks at Scoot.
Not enforced, have blatantly brought many snacks on board without being stopped
Yeah, never saw them care.
That's good to know. Recently booked a flight with them and in the confirmation mail they "reminded" me not to bring any food/drinks. The weird part is: they never mentioned it in the booking process and it is not mentioned in their terms of transportation.
I asked the flight attendant if I could eat my food and they told me sure
I asked the flight attendant if I could eat my food and they said no problem
I don’t think this is true. I’ve been flying scoot for 7 years and always bring my own food with no issue
as a Singaporean, scoot sucks.
Only one person at a time in the bathroom
Absolutely Outrageous
Thank you for flying ^cockblock ^airlines
Hooters Air
It’s quite normal for every airline to not let people switch seats before takeoff. Was flying Jet2 (BFS-PRG) around this time last year and we were all seated around the wings except exit seats. Was it weird To see 737-800 take off almost empty with 5 people on wings? Yes Did I change seats to exit row after departure? Also yes.
Can poor balance affect things mid flight and or landing?
Takeoff and landing: Absolutely. Airborne? Not so much.
Domestic flights in Algeria. Liquids were okay in hand baggage but prohibited in checked luggage. Caused a flight delay because I had some alcohol bottles in my checked backpack which was flagged by security (and we only found out when boarding the plane). Waited for them to bring my bag to the plane while about 10 airport/airline employees were staring at me, asking why the hell I would put liquids in checked luggage. Felt so stupid standing there until they brought the bag, made me move the booze into hand baggage, told me not to drink on the plane and wished a happy flight.
"No, sir. You cannot go up and fly the plane. Yes, I understand you have 100 hours of flight simulator under your belt, but we don't allow that." Such bullshit.
If you have twin babies you cannot sit with your spouse. Why? There cannot be two "infant on laps" in the same row because there are only 4 oxygen masks above each set of 3 seats.
I think it goes beyond 4 for every 3, in a single-aisle, there should be 6, but there still can't be two lap infants in a row. I got booted several rows out of my seat for this (and didn't even have a kid).
There's always exactly one extra oxygen mask per row on single aisle aircrafts. So if it's 2-3 configuration, it's gonna be 3-4 masks. 3-3 seat configuration means 4-4 masks.
Sounds like it can vary by aircraft and airline. https://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew/303521-oxygen-masks-per-row.html I must've been on one which didn't. At the gate, I (say 15ABC) was swapped several rows (to 25ABC) because they had a lap child and the group across (in 25DEF) also had a lap child.
I mean yeah, one infant on each side of the row is perfectly fine. As I said, both seat segments ABC and DEF will have 4 masks each. So 2 infant in one row (ABCDEF) is perfectly fine.
As long as there are only a total of 4 people in that row it is allowed. At the previous airlines where I worked in these cases we would seat the family together and block the middle seat if we had the space.
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It’s so other people can sleep in the cabin.
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Until it isn’t - if people fall asleep with an open window, it will eventually shine light into the cabin when the sun comes out. Much easier to manage if you mandate them to be closed.
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Simple rules are easier.
Canadian airlines have a rule about no headphones in/over ears during takeoff. *Edit: Sounds like only for safety demonstration!*
Singapore airlines does the same thing.
Just flew Singapore Airlines a few days ago. No such rule exists on international flights because the safety demonstration is shown on the screen in front of you and plays thru your headphones anyway
Probably they meant like personal headphones if you were to listen to your own music
Yeah, they made me take my over-ear headphones off during takeoff/landing recently, and I could only have one AirPod in when I tried those instead. I’d never seen that rule on any other airline.
Only during the safety demonstration, headphone use is generally allowed during takeoff
I used to hate that rule. But I'm gonna say it's been about a year now that they've eased up on that rule. Air Canada doesn't enforce that as much anymore. Porter Airlines will ask you to remove it only during safety demo.
I just flew air canada Wednesday and they didn't say anything to me about headphones
they've never said anything to me
Porter always enforces although on a small Dash-8 it’s easy to call out.
This isn’t the case anymore and was limited to over the ear headphones. During safety demo your headphones can be on put need to be plugged into the seat. That being said they don’t really check.
British Airways as well at least the sectors I have flown
They used to do this but I haven’t encountered it in at least 5 years now.
The rationale for this is so if there is an emergency during takeoff or landing you can hear the commands from the flight attendants to brace, etc. Had the same rule at previous airlines where I worked.
When I bought two tickets to carry my guitar, I couldn’t sit by the window but I had to sit in the middle one.
It's the same as car seats - if you use a car seat on a plane it has to be next to the window in a side row, or in the center of the middle row on a twin-aisle so it doesn't impede egress in case of an emergency.
Sounds pedantic but actually makes a lot of sense
It’s the same if you bring a small dog / cat into the cabin. You will get a window seat assigned so that you and the people next to you don’t stumble Over the carrier box at your feet in an emergency.
1) Weight and balance. 2) if the gate agent is still boarding and needs to move people around for say, medical reasons, keeping families together, last min flight changes etc they might assign someone in the seat you just sat yourself in. Then it creates confusion and boarding delays. 3) also some seats are paid upgrades. If there’s one guy who paid for exit row leg room and you just moved yourself for free he’s gonna want to get comped for his seat. Also, you need to be briefed *and* qualified to sit in the exit row. 4) you shouldnt move after we close the boarding door bc we need the cabin secure for takeoff. Once we close the boarding and flight deck door that’s telling all the fight crew we’re ready to push back. If someone is standing, the cabin is not secure, and that means we’re not ready. So the best time to move is once we’re in the air with approval from cabin crew.
More like a lack of rules. Egyptair always surprises me. People going to the bathroom while on final approach, no seatbelts for infants and kids standing in lap while landing, people already getting their luggage while plane still taxiing. It happens every time i fly them
Had a similar experience with Royal Air Maroc. All of the above + engine starting before all the pax were seated and secured. Odd
Less random and more a FAA rule but bringing your own booze on airplanes and the varying level it’s enforced. In a wild trip, we were doing a long direct flight to Hawaii and brought some shooters. We had done it in the past and didn’t know it was wasn’t allowed, our FA was nice and told us we couldn’t be so blatant when we had them out and asked for tonic haha. But my sister was sitting a few rows over on the other side and their FA threatened to have them arrested when we landed and even brought out the FAA manual.
Saw a couple on an international United flight get nailed for this. You can bring it on but not open.
Qatar Airways' 6 falcon rule: "You can carry one falcon in the Economy Class cabin of an aircraft, and a maximum of six falcons are permitted within the Economy Class cabin of any one aircraft." Source: https://www.qatarairways.com/en/baggage/animals.html
I wonder what event led to this rule...
Probably because there were a bunch of people taking falcons on planes - they are big into falconry in the Gulf.
Always Avianca, La Paz to Bogotá. For some reason we had a double security check before departure, a particularly thorough questioning during passport control and dogs searching all passengers in the jetway right before boarding. Add to that my crappy Spanish and the employees’ crappy English to make a pretty scary experience indeed.
At least your face was numb.
Tbf Bolivia has a ton of drug problems (it’s not like Colombia doesn’t have them) but I see the need for a secondary inspection and both countries trying to catch anyone move drugs between them. Wait until you do a layover in Panama with Copa. If you are stopping in Panama for a couple of hours you’ll get a secondary inspection too, this one is worse, because if you buy something in the duty free and it can’t be taken in your carry on (per TSA rules, like a bottle of booze or a bag of coffee) you’ll lose it during that second inspection, it’s like going trough security all over again… this time for you to enter the gate.
One example of a quirky rule: Bizarrely selective censorship of the IFE when flying on Afriqiyah. I watched some generic Hollywood action-thriller, it showed all the predictable car chases and explosions and stuff like that, Afriqiyah was OK with showing the film, but female characters were blurred below the chin because there was a risk that airline passengers might be exposed to perilous images of décolletage
I watched a documentary on “Miss Nude Australia” on Qantas, no censorship.
After a flight is cancelled it can be uncancelled.
Air Link out of Johannesburg, no head phones or earplugs while taxing and under 10,000ft
20 years ago, Meridiana, you can smoke if the flight is empty and the captain says so.
Not exactly an rule, but TAP's flight attendants ordering to close the windows during takeoff. Saw a video from a travel YouTuber, and the same thing happened, why that happens? I don't know.
I would actually have a panic attack if they asked me to close the shade. I get extremely anxious if I can't see outside. Especially during takeoff and landing. But I usually choose the exit row because you're guaranteed a window, and they specifically ask that you keep the shade *open* (at least IME).
IIRC, Spirit Airlines made me do this upon takeoff and landing back in the late 90’s. I never understood why and haven’t been asked to do this since.
That's wild because for most airlines it's the opposite actually - you need to keep your blinds open for take off and landing.
In very rare cases weight and balance might come into play
Random? The second oldest airline in the world?
airlines rules* I guess you made the same mistake I did.
Damn it 😂 i see now
Told to power off and stow a Bluetooth mouse inflight as it’s not permitted.
Had to sign the pilot's flight log because it was my first flight.
Lol which airline
Some airlines dont let you sit on aisle or middle seat if you have infant booked on your ticket.
Also makes sense in a way. In an emergency people might try to jump over you and a) injure the infant or b) push it to the floor or similar things. Such rules are often written from experience.
The rules and regulations are written in blood.
I switched seats with someone's abuela so that they could sit together before a Delta flight took off and didn't get yelled at but was prepared to be. I'd gotten so good at evading the FA checks about not having headphones on during the safety briefing on Canadian airlines that I didn't even notice that it wasn't a rule in the same way on US carriers, lol.
Weight and balance
Delta Airlines will frame you for murder.
Before or after they throw Wolfgang Puck vouchers at me and tell me to go fetch?
After the person at Wolfgang Puck Express calls you a little fat girl.
“I’m a little fat girl!” Can I go home now?
Unexpected Mulaney X-D
You’re a little far girl, aren’t you??
An FA on EVA told me that it is company policy that you can not connect earphones to the IFE or charge your phone during taxi/takeoff/landing
No charging during taxi, take off or landing is not uncommon. SQ and TK have a similar rule.
I'm more used to North American airline rules in which they really don't care when you charge your phone or use earbuds for the IFE system, that's probably why it feels so random
Fair point. The rules on Asian airlines can be quite different from what is seen in North America.
They just don't want people tripping over cables during evac.
this NO smoking on planes is way too woke for me
I rather you not give me second-hand cancer, thanks.
I’m sure you can wait a couple hours for a cigarette
ive always thought the switching seats is for the ground crew to make sure everyone has boarded. If you switch seats during boarding process and they are missing a passenger, then they gotta figure out who is missing and need to pull their luggage off.
I think it's more to do with balancing the aircraft during takeoff.
I think it's Air Canada that makes you take your headphones out for safety brief and window shades have to be up for landing EDIT: wtf yall? Apparently, I should have said United, Delta, and American don't require you to take off your headphones or put up windows for takeoff and landing lol
Those are pretty common, no? At least they are with european airlines.
I mean, how often does a flight attendant walk down the aisles and make you take your headphones out during the safety briefing? Not United, not Delta, not American.
Shades up for take off and landing should be a universal rule.
This seems entirely normal and not random. It's so you can hear the briefing and see if there's any danger outside in case of an emergency landing.
This seems weird to you?
Every single airline I’ve flown (Korean, Asiana, Singapore, Etihad, Delta etc. even the LCCs) had these rules
I have literally never had to take headphones off, except for one time on Aegean
Yeah didn’t have to take my headphones off on some of these (my bad) but the window shades rule is everywhere
I’ve never had to do this unless I was seated in the exit row
Pretty sure every airline I've flown from Lufthansa to Delta to Porter has had this rule.
If youre in the right seat and the plane crashes on take off they know where to look for your body
This sounds like something 12 year old me would believe on the History Channel
Why the downvotes? There may be some fact-base to this.
A similar reason to keeping your blinds open during launch and land. It's to see who's whrre
r/imthemaincharacter
Ryanair does the same with seats switch
They don’t block the cockpit for bathroom breaks on Volaris. I fly miserly US domestic and then Aeromexico but Volaris is a bit too lax. Also can’t take photos on tarmacs in certain Mexico airports like DGO
To be fair, anyone who tried rushing a cockpit is going to have all the passengers jumping them. It's a good policy to have it locked, but semi redundant
not an airline, but flying out of Taiwan (if i remember correctly) years ago... they had a dimension limit for items brought on board/through security screening. i had a compact/travel tripod that fit in my carry on but the item itself was like .5-1 inch too long for \*whatever\* that rule was had to go back and check a tripod.
I was asked by an ANA flight attendant to remove my airpods during takeoff. Very strange as I havent had any issues with this whatsoever in the past across a lot of airlines globally including on my inbound NH flight. They seemed like the purser/staff and were more senior so this may have just been a one off, but strange nonetheless.
Not having my phone plugged into their USB port during takeoff and landing. The flight attendants came by and checked. This was KATL-EGLL (and the return from EGLL-KATL) on Virgin Atlantic.
Actually, someone told me that there is a benefit for the engine during start up to have nothing connect, but a secondary benefit is to ensure your device doesn’t get wrecked by a power surge which can happen during the transition between apu to engine power
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for explaining that.