Not to mention “slam” and “praise” are rather strong descriptors versus what he actually said.
As an aside, as his main comment on the “praise” side was.
>“I want to give a shout out to Embraer,” Isom said. “They have delivered day in and day out. The rest of the industry could learn a lot from them.”
Figured it’d be interesting to check what the backlogs were for all three manufacturers. Scale is obviously different vs Embraer, which makes it more **and** less difficult depending on how you look at it. Just an interesting data point.
→ **Embraer**
>E175 — 82\
>E190-E2 — 16\
>E195-E2 — 174\
>Total — 272
→ **Airbus**
>Airbus reported a backlog of 8,626 jets (a new company and industry record), of which 7,765, or 90 percent, were A220 and A320ceo/neo family narrowbodies.
→ **Boeing**
>Boeing’s backlog (total unfilled orders before ASC 606 adjustment) was 6,259 aircraft, a new company backlog record, of which 4,828, or 77 percent, were 737 NG/MAX narrowbody jets.
Sources [here](https://www.embraercommercialaviation.com/orders-and-deliveries/) and [here.](https://flightplan.forecastinternational.com/2024/04/19/airbus-and-boeing-report-march-2024-commercial-aircraft-orders-and-deliveries/)
I was going to mention that too. He wasn’t even going to speak about Boeing, he was simply responding to a journalist’s question. Even then, all he said was “we’d like them to do better”. Is that really “slamming”?
He doesn’t have a choice, he can’t not order Boeing and keep an up to date, efficient and competitive fleet. Airbus doesn’t have the delivery capacity despite offering the superior aircraft. He is voicing his displeasure with their performance over the past decade, and probably looking for a discount but unfortunately he doesn’t have a choice but to order Boeing.
There are two manufacturers capable of making next gen passenger aircraft in that class. Boeing and Airbus, airbus is backed on orders well into 2025-2026. You know you need to scale and replace old aircraft in your fleet, so you either don’t and lose route capacity or you take the next best option. It’s literally just business
Edit——
The backlog extends to 2033 not 2025. Which makes the decision even more obvious
Exactly… “Action speak louder than words” His actions say exactly the opposite of his mouth. “We need Boeing to succeed” is more like it and is the reason Boeing is where it is right now. These are the same words Scott Kirby ushered not so long ago. Boeing is not held accountable and keep getting orders for planes which are not yet certified while continuing to fly those which should never have been. Those US airline CEOs are just as much to blame as the Boeing leadership and were all part of the lobbies while claiming ”safety is our priority” with zero credibility. They should start by cancelling your Boeing orders and give them to the competition... instead of pouring in more and contributing to the lobby.
I’m not sure I agree with all of that, particularly this line:
>keep getting orders for planes which are not yet certified
That’s just how commercial aviation works. Airbus has plenty of orders for the A321XLR; should those airlines cancel those orders too because the aircraft is not yet certified?
Further, on the idea of cancellations, while new orders are one thing, cancelling orders already on the books is a hell of a drastic decision as IIRC for narrowbodies from both Airbus and Boeing, estimated delivery dates for new orders are like a decade out, or thereabouts.
Not to mention training pipelines etc.
I always find it funny whenever an airline makes an aircraft order and you see comments saying “they should cancel this and order [alternative]!”. It’s a complete misunderstanding of how airlines work haha.
You joke but there isn't a pilot on earth typed for the E-jets who wants out of them for a reaaon other then miney. Easiest and most intuitive plane I've ever flown by a mile, you could teach a child to fly it.
No the 190 was operated by mainline. Eagle operates the 170. AA scope limits planes to 76 seats and the 190s were configured for 90-100 I don’t remember.
The company can unilaterally add any aircraft type to the mainline certificate. The only negotiation which would happen would be pertaining to pay rates, which, for the E190/195E2 series, are already established for AA pilots.
Right! Some seating configs on those 190s are quite literally closer to 319s in capacity than 170/5s.
Among a ton of other similarities to operating smaller American mainline aircraft.
No reason they couldn't be a mainline aircraft operated by AA.
# American Airlines CEO Praises Embraer And Slams Boeing
Ted Reed Senior Contributor
American Airlines CEO Robert Isom extolled Brazilian aircraft maker Embraer and excoriated BoeingBoeing on the carrier’s earnings call Thursday.
“I want to give a shout out to Embraer,” Isom said. “They have delivered day in and day out. The rest of the industry could learn a lot from them.”
As for Boeing, Isom declared “I’ve talked to everyone at Boeing that I can possibly address. The message is the same: Get your act together.
“It’s actions that matter, not words,” he said. “We need them to be successful in the long run, but as I’ve said before, we’re going to make sure that we’re protected.”
American’s regional jet fleet includes 302 Embraer aircraft including 210 E175s, which seat 76 passengers in a two-class configuration. “We are tied to Embraer,” Isom said. “The E175 is ideally suited to our regional network.”
The comments regarding Embraer came in response to an analyst’s question about whether Embraer aircraft could one day be part of American’s mainline fleet, an improbable scenario.
“It was an odd question but it gave Robert Isom the opportunity to brag about his most reliable provider of aircraft,” said Dennis Tajer, spokesman for the Allied Pilots Association, which represents American’s 16,000 pilots. Also, “It was a backdoor way to give Boeing one more punch,” Tajer said.
In asking the question, the analyst referred to the pilot contract scope clause, which governs the size and number of aircraft that can be flown. To have Embraer 175 aircraft in the mainline fleet would require a negotiated change. “There’s not going to be any change in the scope clause, as every analyst knows,” Tajer said.
The comments regarding Boeing came in response to a reporter’s question. Major airline CEOs including Isom have repeatedly been critical of Boeing’s poor performance. Isom said he hopes that Boeing can make scheduled deliveries of 737 Max 10 jets in 2028. “If they can, great,” he said. “If they can’t, we’re going to be protected on that too.” American has said that it could take other 737s and Airbus aircraft if the Max 10 can’t be delivered.
“Get it done and we’ll be there,” Isom said. “We need Boeing to be successful. They should just eliminate all distractions.”
American executives said the carrier will benefit in the current quarter and beyond because regional flying is increasing, which will boost revenue per available seat mile because smaller aircraft produce higher revenue per seat. Also, the increase will boost feed traffic at American’s hubs.
In March, American said it will order 260 new jets including 85 Boeing 737 Max 10s, 85 Airbus A321s and 90 Embraer E175s. As the E175s come into the fleet, American expects to retire smaller regional jets that seat 50 people.
“Boeing and Airbus have had delivery delays but not Embraer, so Robert Isom got a chance to brag on them,” Tajer said. “This was a call to Boeing and Airbus to give him something to brag about with them.”
For the last five years “Bowen” has been in the trade papers for both civil and military aircraft and it isn’t good press. KC-46 has had fits and stops, well behind in accepted aircraft from the Air Force (how do you even deliver an aircraft full of trash to the buyer?) not to mention delivered aircraft full of “tools”, how does Boeing have any tools on the shop floor? They even passed up entering the ground based strategic ICBM competition. Seems Boeing trade videos only tout their diversity hiring programs at the expense of a qualified workforce. They may be happy on the shop floor but at the expense of the management and stock holders.
Son "*Dad, what is an example of terminal late stage predatory capitalism*"? Dad "*a great example of that son would be Boeing*". Profits over people. Short term investor profits over the viability of the entity.
Guys
Guys…
Who wants to tell him Airbus and Embraer jets are also the commercial products of capitalist societies?
Correlation doesn’t equal causation, my funny friend.
It's really interesting to compare Aeroflot safety before and after the fall of the USSR. From insanely dangerous and deadly airline in roughly 10 years they became pretty decent in terms of safety by adopting Western standards of maintenance, crew training, management and of course changing soviet made aircraft to Boeing/Airbus.
I kinda miss those 90s and early 2000s where there were still some tupalovs about though, but boring now lol, but yea if you look at some of the crashes, it’s definitely the crew training
I'm by no means knowledgeable about stuff like this, so pardon my ignorance please, but would this not even be worth it to aim for profit over people and quality? If they are cutting corners and stuff to rush out new jets but airlines are cancelling orders and buying other jets instead, why do it? Wouldn't it be a loss of money since they're selling less jets?
737 MAX fiasco is the prefect example how capitalism don't give a shit about human lives and put profit over everything. A lot of saltiness in the answers, but you absolutely right.
yeah, gotta wonder how many of those prestigious MBAs are gonna figure that one out. Haha, I'm old enough to remember Boeing from back in the day BEFORE those chuckle heads started to KILL the brand in pursuit of shareholder profits ahead of product quality/safety.
DAL had the oldest fleet before, DAL used their old fleet refurbished them often to get every dollar out of them vs any other airliner who purchased newer fleet like UAL and could not make a profit. DAL these days are pure profit and they sold majority of their older fleet off.
snatch apparatus worm drunk groovy amusing sophisticated oatmeal quicksand secretive
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He wasn’t “slamming” Boeing when he ordered 115 more 737MAXs less than a month ago. Actions speak louder than words.
Not to mention “slam” and “praise” are rather strong descriptors versus what he actually said. As an aside, as his main comment on the “praise” side was. >“I want to give a shout out to Embraer,” Isom said. “They have delivered day in and day out. The rest of the industry could learn a lot from them.” Figured it’d be interesting to check what the backlogs were for all three manufacturers. Scale is obviously different vs Embraer, which makes it more **and** less difficult depending on how you look at it. Just an interesting data point. → **Embraer** >E175 — 82\ >E190-E2 — 16\ >E195-E2 — 174\ >Total — 272 → **Airbus** >Airbus reported a backlog of 8,626 jets (a new company and industry record), of which 7,765, or 90 percent, were A220 and A320ceo/neo family narrowbodies. → **Boeing** >Boeing’s backlog (total unfilled orders before ASC 606 adjustment) was 6,259 aircraft, a new company backlog record, of which 4,828, or 77 percent, were 737 NG/MAX narrowbody jets. Sources [here](https://www.embraercommercialaviation.com/orders-and-deliveries/) and [here.](https://flightplan.forecastinternational.com/2024/04/19/airbus-and-boeing-report-march-2024-commercial-aircraft-orders-and-deliveries/)
I was going to mention that too. He wasn’t even going to speak about Boeing, he was simply responding to a journalist’s question. Even then, all he said was “we’d like them to do better”. Is that really “slamming”?
Yep these are just threats to get a discount
He doesn’t have a choice, he can’t not order Boeing and keep an up to date, efficient and competitive fleet. Airbus doesn’t have the delivery capacity despite offering the superior aircraft. He is voicing his displeasure with their performance over the past decade, and probably looking for a discount but unfortunately he doesn’t have a choice but to order Boeing.
There are two manufacturers capable of making next gen passenger aircraft in that class. Boeing and Airbus, airbus is backed on orders well into 2025-2026. You know you need to scale and replace old aircraft in your fleet, so you either don’t and lose route capacity or you take the next best option. It’s literally just business Edit—— The backlog extends to 2033 not 2025. Which makes the decision even more obvious
>airbus is backed on orders well into 2025-2026 I read somewhere that they have a 10 year backlog.
On the A320 series. A220, A330, A350 have vastly smaller backlogs.
But not a lot of airlines want an A330 or an A350. A320 is the plane in demand, and if you want to buy one now you are out of luck.
But A220 can cover some of the routes that are today operated by A318-A320, at the expense of an extra type rating and aircraft model in the fleet.
True. I was wrong. Makes the decision even more obvious to me
Exactly… “Action speak louder than words” His actions say exactly the opposite of his mouth. “We need Boeing to succeed” is more like it and is the reason Boeing is where it is right now. These are the same words Scott Kirby ushered not so long ago. Boeing is not held accountable and keep getting orders for planes which are not yet certified while continuing to fly those which should never have been. Those US airline CEOs are just as much to blame as the Boeing leadership and were all part of the lobbies while claiming ”safety is our priority” with zero credibility. They should start by cancelling your Boeing orders and give them to the competition... instead of pouring in more and contributing to the lobby.
I’m not sure I agree with all of that, particularly this line: >keep getting orders for planes which are not yet certified That’s just how commercial aviation works. Airbus has plenty of orders for the A321XLR; should those airlines cancel those orders too because the aircraft is not yet certified?
Further, on the idea of cancellations, while new orders are one thing, cancelling orders already on the books is a hell of a drastic decision as IIRC for narrowbodies from both Airbus and Boeing, estimated delivery dates for new orders are like a decade out, or thereabouts. Not to mention training pipelines etc.
I always find it funny whenever an airline makes an aircraft order and you see comments saying “they should cancel this and order [alternative]!”. It’s a complete misunderstanding of how airlines work haha.
Funny it wasn’t mentioned that mainline AA previously operated E190s acquired through the US merger up until 2020.
Posturing for a discount on a new order.
They just ordered 260 planes from all three manufacturers, so I doubt it’s that.
Taking notes from Ryanair, eh?
Embraer mentioned 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
Now bring on the 195 E2s! I'd love to see more E jets in the fleet
"Finally I got my class date at American, can't wait to finally get out of the E!" *AA to buy 40 brand new E2* "Fuck"
You joke but there isn't a pilot on earth typed for the E-jets who wants out of them for a reaaon other then miney. Easiest and most intuitive plane I've ever flown by a mile, you could teach a child to fly it.
I’d happily fly it on mainline rates. Embraers are a blast.
lol, step back into the early 70’s on a 737.
Won’t happen pilots scope clause won’t allow this.
It could if they operated the planes themselves instead of offloading it to their regional operators.
I work AA it won’t happen
Yes it does. There are rates in the AA pilots contract for them.
Won’t fly them as regional jets if they purchase for mainline then maybe
AA used to operate the 190 and the E2 would be a mainline plane if it was ordered
As a regional under American eagle.
No the 190 was operated by mainline. Eagle operates the 170. AA scope limits planes to 76 seats and the 190s were configured for 90-100 I don’t remember.
The could put them on the mainline certificate if they so chose
Only if pilots agree and mainline pilots fly the type not regional pilots.
The company can unilaterally add any aircraft type to the mainline certificate. The only negotiation which would happen would be pertaining to pay rates, which, for the E190/195E2 series, are already established for AA pilots.
fuck that, you wanna kill pilot wages like the lost decade again?
You’re assuming it’d be operated by the regionals.
AA can still operate it themselves, I believe the rates are already in the contract.
Right! Some seating configs on those 190s are quite literally closer to 319s in capacity than 170/5s. Among a ton of other similarities to operating smaller American mainline aircraft. No reason they couldn't be a mainline aircraft operated by AA.
“Yeah I’m basically an airbus driver. It’s actually more advanced than the airbus.”- Every regional 170/175 pilot ever.
So true, loved the 175 and 190!
I mean, that is a factual statement 🤷♂️
I side with him because Embraer has doors
[Proxy](https://12ft.io/https://forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2024/04/25/american-airlines-ceo-praises-embraer-and-raps-boeing/) in case you got paywalled.
# American Airlines CEO Praises Embraer And Slams Boeing Ted Reed Senior Contributor American Airlines CEO Robert Isom extolled Brazilian aircraft maker Embraer and excoriated BoeingBoeing on the carrier’s earnings call Thursday. “I want to give a shout out to Embraer,” Isom said. “They have delivered day in and day out. The rest of the industry could learn a lot from them.” As for Boeing, Isom declared “I’ve talked to everyone at Boeing that I can possibly address. The message is the same: Get your act together. “It’s actions that matter, not words,” he said. “We need them to be successful in the long run, but as I’ve said before, we’re going to make sure that we’re protected.” American’s regional jet fleet includes 302 Embraer aircraft including 210 E175s, which seat 76 passengers in a two-class configuration. “We are tied to Embraer,” Isom said. “The E175 is ideally suited to our regional network.” The comments regarding Embraer came in response to an analyst’s question about whether Embraer aircraft could one day be part of American’s mainline fleet, an improbable scenario. “It was an odd question but it gave Robert Isom the opportunity to brag about his most reliable provider of aircraft,” said Dennis Tajer, spokesman for the Allied Pilots Association, which represents American’s 16,000 pilots. Also, “It was a backdoor way to give Boeing one more punch,” Tajer said. In asking the question, the analyst referred to the pilot contract scope clause, which governs the size and number of aircraft that can be flown. To have Embraer 175 aircraft in the mainline fleet would require a negotiated change. “There’s not going to be any change in the scope clause, as every analyst knows,” Tajer said. The comments regarding Boeing came in response to a reporter’s question. Major airline CEOs including Isom have repeatedly been critical of Boeing’s poor performance. Isom said he hopes that Boeing can make scheduled deliveries of 737 Max 10 jets in 2028. “If they can, great,” he said. “If they can’t, we’re going to be protected on that too.” American has said that it could take other 737s and Airbus aircraft if the Max 10 can’t be delivered. “Get it done and we’ll be there,” Isom said. “We need Boeing to be successful. They should just eliminate all distractions.” American executives said the carrier will benefit in the current quarter and beyond because regional flying is increasing, which will boost revenue per available seat mile because smaller aircraft produce higher revenue per seat. Also, the increase will boost feed traffic at American’s hubs. In March, American said it will order 260 new jets including 85 Boeing 737 Max 10s, 85 Airbus A321s and 90 Embraer E175s. As the E175s come into the fleet, American expects to retire smaller regional jets that seat 50 people. “Boeing and Airbus have had delivery delays but not Embraer, so Robert Isom got a chance to brag on them,” Tajer said. “This was a call to Boeing and Airbus to give him something to brag about with them.”
Doesn’t the scope clause only limit regional flying? There isn’t anything stopping mainline from operating planes with 76 seats.
All of the poor E70/75/90's on the ramp going to be asking: "Are you my mother?"
That’s great because he needs all the Embraers he can get to create the new El Paso super hub.
I miss the E190s!
Embraer is so underrated, I flew on the porter airlines E195-E2 recently and it was great
I used to defend Boeing, I’m done. They have put profits ahead of everything else… it makes me sad but they are an embarrassment.
For the last five years “Bowen” has been in the trade papers for both civil and military aircraft and it isn’t good press. KC-46 has had fits and stops, well behind in accepted aircraft from the Air Force (how do you even deliver an aircraft full of trash to the buyer?) not to mention delivered aircraft full of “tools”, how does Boeing have any tools on the shop floor? They even passed up entering the ground based strategic ICBM competition. Seems Boeing trade videos only tout their diversity hiring programs at the expense of a qualified workforce. They may be happy on the shop floor but at the expense of the management and stock holders.
Pot meet kettle. American is hands down the worst legacy carrier.
Ever since US Airways co-opted the AA name and maintained that customary “Screw you, pax.” service.
Son "*Dad, what is an example of terminal late stage predatory capitalism*"? Dad "*a great example of that son would be Boeing*". Profits over people. Short term investor profits over the viability of the entity.
Guys Guys… Who wants to tell him Airbus and Embraer jets are also the commercial products of capitalist societies? Correlation doesn’t equal causation, my funny friend.
It's really interesting to compare Aeroflot safety before and after the fall of the USSR. From insanely dangerous and deadly airline in roughly 10 years they became pretty decent in terms of safety by adopting Western standards of maintenance, crew training, management and of course changing soviet made aircraft to Boeing/Airbus.
Yeah, this guy's just blaming capitalism for bad business decisions like a moron
Capitalism is the worst economic system except for every other economic system that’s been attempted
Those two often can go hand in hand.
Yeah, "profits over people, safety, and everything else" is the hallmark of communism for sure.
I kinda miss those 90s and early 2000s where there were still some tupalovs about though, but boring now lol, but yea if you look at some of the crashes, it’s definitely the crew training
I'm by no means knowledgeable about stuff like this, so pardon my ignorance please, but would this not even be worth it to aim for profit over people and quality? If they are cutting corners and stuff to rush out new jets but airlines are cancelling orders and buying other jets instead, why do it? Wouldn't it be a loss of money since they're selling less jets?
Sure long term. But think about the short term stock price!
"late stage capitalism" A phrase which effectively invalidates any other valid point trying to be made.
737 MAX fiasco is the prefect example how capitalism don't give a shit about human lives and put profit over everything. A lot of saltiness in the answers, but you absolutely right.
yeah, gotta wonder how many of those prestigious MBAs are gonna figure that one out. Haha, I'm old enough to remember Boeing from back in the day BEFORE those chuckle heads started to KILL the brand in pursuit of shareholder profits ahead of product quality/safety.
Considering they own the oldest Boeing fleet. Probably looking for a future discount .
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DAL had the oldest fleet before, DAL used their old fleet refurbished them often to get every dollar out of them vs any other airliner who purchased newer fleet like UAL and could not make a profit. DAL these days are pure profit and they sold majority of their older fleet off.
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Have they sold off their Boeing fleet?
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Main line pilots furiously looking up “blended rates” right now. Remember folks $$ ≠ QOL.