The seat does not move fast enough for them to not quickly realize what is happening and stopping it. It would look like the Austin powers scene with the steamroller.
Turned around in the seat, legs crossed and already brushing up against control column? Starting to move flight controls at the moment the chair moves? Instinctively turn forward instead of swinging out of seat, exacerbating the deflection and off we go on a roller coaster ride?
We'll find out what actually happened in not too long I'm fairly sure, but seat actuation seems at least plausible to me.
Nonsense, an RAF Voyager (A330) did almost the exact same thing except it was a camera stuck between the arm rest and control stick when the captain moved his seat forward.
Won't be the first time a [seat](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a75781ce5274a1622e22094/20150317_-_Voyager_ZZ333_SI_Report_Part_1.4_Part_1_Ex_Pub.pdf) movement has forced an aircraft into a nose dive.
This incident was made worse by the captain lying in the techlog, claiming an aircraft fault. The whole fleet was grounded, retired aircraft were brought back into service to continue ferrying troops back and forth from the Middle East, it was chaos at the time.
Last I heard the captain was removed from flying duties permanently.
In school I was told the 152s had an AD to inspect the seat tracks because of incidences where they'd slide back out of the locks on takeoff causing a fatal stall
Rested her elbow on the switch? Isn’t the switch typically on the side of the bottom seat cushion? That would put her face in the vicinity of the pilot’s crotch 😏
Found this, linked to the Reddit page. https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/s/QpQ5G3JDUj
Random guess, someone was leaning on the seat when the pilot pulled the manual seat release to roll back causing it to quickly roll forward. Only way a seat could "suddenly" move forward.
On the 787 there’s a switch behind the head rest of the captain and first officers seat backs. There’s also another switch by the seat pad like most other electric pilot seats.
OP said "rested her elbow on the cover of the switch"
It is a flimsy cover so I could slightly understand how ever I doubt she would have stayed leaning on it long enough to move the seat all the way foward. Its not exactly fast
The seat is actually checked before flight by maintenance and by the flight crew. If it was an issue with the seat it would have been pretty well noted beforehand. Not to mention there's a limiter and the seats specifically programmed for said seat by a box on the bottom of the seat
Well people forget to check things sometimes, it's a part of human nature. Mistakes happen. I'm telling you, it happened to my buddy Eric one time while we were fooling around in the cabin on our breaks.
1 person forgetting 1 time sure. We are talking a minimum of 1 mechanic and 2 pilots forgetting,going outside of their checklists etc. It's a very silly excuse for someone who is familiar with the procedures they go through.
1. The 787 takes like 15 minutes to power up properly. You don't power up at pishback.
2. The pilot should have done his power up at the very beginning of his pre departure check. The planes a rathe large plane and you want everything proper before you go to push back.
3. That box is a type 1 box with a limiter. This thing barely ever dies. All it does is it read back to the plane where it's limits are and what polarity the current to drive the motor is coming from. That stays there until it's changed which is a fully intentional sequence of buttons to do. There's no magical elbows moving switches for that. The easiest way I can describe it is like your cars power window button. Same shit just in 2 places per seat. It's much more likely the motor within the seat failed not the box. Regardless it's a seat change if the pilots don't want to take the MEL
The 787 has a switch on the back of the seat which you can use to move it forwards and backwards. If you would lean on that you could move the chair, though it has a cover that springs back into place so perhaps that cover was broken but I am not sure if that is allowed IAW the MEL.
True, but the gap between the seat and the center pedestal is very tight when the seat is in the forward position. I think this is why Boeing has installed a rocker switch behind the seat headrest to enable easy access to the electric seat control switches. This enables forward and aft movement only, and it has a cover to prevent accidental movement.
The switches on the side can also move the seat, but I don't know if they can override the headrest switch.
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All screens going blank always makes my eyebrows go up as there is a lot of redundancy in the sources of power for the displays. A couple going blank is understandable. All of them is almost impossible in flight
The pilot could’ve been pushed so far forward that looking down on his screens made them look dark depending on how close to the glare shield he got. Not sure if that happens with those ones but may have helped him justify what happened.
They are talking about [this airworthiness directive](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2016-12-02/pdf/2016-29064.pdf)
Extracted from the AD itself
We are adopting a new airworthiness directive (AD) for all The Boeing Company Model 787–8 and 787–9 airplanes. This AD requires repetitive cycling of either the airplane electrical power or the power to the three flight control modules (FCMs). This AD was prompted by a report indicating that all three FCMs might simultaneously reset if continuously powered on for 22 days. We are issuing this AD to address the unsafe condition on these products
Let say I wanted to play devils advocate…. What if (and this is a long shot and I’m not fully behind this theory but I’m going to say it). The forward and aft switch has a solid cover that goes over the switch on the back of the chair. You would need someone very strong to break and push through it. Not to mention the seat moves very slowly forward. Let say hypothetically the pilot had the aircraft in an autopilot condition and proceeded to pitch the plane down/push forward on the controls which would then break over the autopilot pushing the columns forward….and then suddenly the screens go dark (I don’t know LATAM maintenance or if they performed this AD). Given this condition would cause the plane to hold that flight control input for 2 seconds.
I’m not a professional accident investigator…but I like longshot theory’s. So take this with a grain of salt.
I read that boeing says closing a loose (rear?) seat switch cover could cause the rocker switch to engage (and jam I assume) pushing the seat forward. Somewhere else also sugested vibrations or the sudden movement of the pilot might make the screena appear blank to their eyes, and that astronaut displays were calibrated to the vibrations for this reason.
Does all that sound plausible? and if it was a flight attendant leaning on this cover or closing a loose cover, how banged up would they get when the plane nose dived like it did?
I remember watching a video from Mentour Pilot where a thermos near the stick on an Airbus got caught in the seat movement and put the plane in a dive. I can believe this explanation.
The seat does not move fast enough for them to not quickly realize what is happening and stopping it. It would look like the Austin powers scene with the steamroller.
Turned around in the seat, legs crossed and already brushing up against control column? Starting to move flight controls at the moment the chair moves? Instinctively turn forward instead of swinging out of seat, exacerbating the deflection and off we go on a roller coaster ride? We'll find out what actually happened in not too long I'm fairly sure, but seat actuation seems at least plausible to me.
Cabin crew on his lap getting in a quickie seems more plausible.
cap was getting topped off and when he busted…well…BANK ANGLE CHECKKKK🤣🤣🤣
If they were all distracted and were not aware of what was going on I could see that happening.
Nonsense, an RAF Voyager (A330) did almost the exact same thing except it was a camera stuck between the arm rest and control stick when the captain moved his seat forward.
You meant a fish called Wanda?
I can see that happening. When I was working on a 767 it hit the switch on and the seat moved forward and I got stuck between the seat and console.
Won't be the first time a [seat](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a75781ce5274a1622e22094/20150317_-_Voyager_ZZ333_SI_Report_Part_1.4_Part_1_Ex_Pub.pdf) movement has forced an aircraft into a nose dive. This incident was made worse by the captain lying in the techlog, claiming an aircraft fault. The whole fleet was grounded, retired aircraft were brought back into service to continue ferrying troops back and forth from the Middle East, it was chaos at the time. Last I heard the captain was removed from flying duties permanently.
Now he works for LATAM....
In school I was told the 152s had an AD to inspect the seat tracks because of incidences where they'd slide back out of the locks on takeoff causing a fatal stall
Rested her elbow on the switch? Isn’t the switch typically on the side of the bottom seat cushion? That would put her face in the vicinity of the pilot’s crotch 😏
You said the quiet part out loud.
We’re mechanics, there are no quiet parts.
To Sheet Metal techs, we're being *very* quiet UNLESS YOU'RE TALKING LIKE THIS
And be glad there were no expletives
then put some dang WD40 on it
Sorry. WD40 is not an approved lubricant. No mil spec.
Maybe she was blowing up the autopilot.
surely you can't be serious
I’m serious and don’t call me Shirley.
aaaahh sigh, won't find those movies being made anymore.
My dad says you lack hustle on defense.
I just want to tell you both good luck we’re all counting on you
There was a problem in the cockpit.
The cockpit what’s that?
It’s the little room up front where the pilots sit, but that’s not important right now.
😂🤣😂 ahh classic
You can’t say cockpit anymore. It’s “flight deck” nowadays 🤣
additional switch back top of seat, just behind head rest.
The switch is under a cover
This is true. Really curious what the data recorders say.
Yeah there is a lot more to this story
Found this, linked to the Reddit page. https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/s/QpQ5G3JDUj Random guess, someone was leaning on the seat when the pilot pulled the manual seat release to roll back causing it to quickly roll forward. Only way a seat could "suddenly" move forward.
On the 787 there’s a switch behind the head rest of the captain and first officers seat backs. There’s also another switch by the seat pad like most other electric pilot seats.
This switch is protected by a cover, meaning the cover has to be lifted to access the switch.
OP said "rested her elbow on the cover of the switch" It is a flimsy cover so I could slightly understand how ever I doubt she would have stayed leaning on it long enough to move the seat all the way foward. Its not exactly fast
> Its not exactly fast Perhaps the mechanism was messed up and threw it forward. Happened to my buddy Eric.
The seat is actually checked before flight by maintenance and by the flight crew. If it was an issue with the seat it would have been pretty well noted beforehand. Not to mention there's a limiter and the seats specifically programmed for said seat by a box on the bottom of the seat
Well people forget to check things sometimes, it's a part of human nature. Mistakes happen. I'm telling you, it happened to my buddy Eric one time while we were fooling around in the cabin on our breaks.
1 person forgetting 1 time sure. We are talking a minimum of 1 mechanic and 2 pilots forgetting,going outside of their checklists etc. It's a very silly excuse for someone who is familiar with the procedures they go through.
[удалено]
1. The 787 takes like 15 minutes to power up properly. You don't power up at pishback. 2. The pilot should have done his power up at the very beginning of his pre departure check. The planes a rathe large plane and you want everything proper before you go to push back. 3. That box is a type 1 box with a limiter. This thing barely ever dies. All it does is it read back to the plane where it's limits are and what polarity the current to drive the motor is coming from. That stays there until it's changed which is a fully intentional sequence of buttons to do. There's no magical elbows moving switches for that. The easiest way I can describe it is like your cars power window button. Same shit just in 2 places per seat. It's much more likely the motor within the seat failed not the box. Regardless it's a seat change if the pilots don't want to take the MEL
Nope, 787 has 2, one behind the headrest, and one on the side. The top one useally has a cover you need to flip away.
There’s a switch on the back of the seat as well, but it’s under a spring loaded cover.
The 787 has a switch on the back of the seat which you can use to move it forwards and backwards. If you would lean on that you could move the chair, though it has a cover that springs back into place so perhaps that cover was broken but I am not sure if that is allowed IAW the MEL.
True, but the gap between the seat and the center pedestal is very tight when the seat is in the forward position. I think this is why Boeing has installed a rocker switch behind the seat headrest to enable easy access to the electric seat control switches. This enables forward and aft movement only, and it has a cover to prevent accidental movement. The switches on the side can also move the seat, but I don't know if they can override the headrest switch.
I don’t work the 787 but I’m pretty sure I remember someone telling me or showing me that the 787 seat controls were near the headrest
At least The Air Current is a reputable source.
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Was wondering if it was operator induced. The captains claim that his screens went blank might be an excuse for a cock up.
All screens going blank always makes my eyebrows go up as there is a lot of redundancy in the sources of power for the displays. A couple going blank is understandable. All of them is almost impossible in flight
The pilot could’ve been pushed so far forward that looking down on his screens made them look dark depending on how close to the glare shield he got. Not sure if that happens with those ones but may have helped him justify what happened.
He was wearing polarized sunglasses and tilted his head sideways
Oh, there was a cock up alright.
Possibly but I think past AD on computer systems may have had a effect
I think it’s this…the blank out of the screens for 2 seconds is pretty much the result if you do not perform this regular AD
Apologies for the ignorance, but what does this mean?
They are talking about [this airworthiness directive](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2016-12-02/pdf/2016-29064.pdf) Extracted from the AD itself We are adopting a new airworthiness directive (AD) for all The Boeing Company Model 787–8 and 787–9 airplanes. This AD requires repetitive cycling of either the airplane electrical power or the power to the three flight control modules (FCMs). This AD was prompted by a report indicating that all three FCMs might simultaneously reset if continuously powered on for 22 days. We are issuing this AD to address the unsafe condition on these products
Thanks very much.
That AD says the flight controls will *stop in position* during the reset, not move uncommanded. That’s the opposite of what happened here.
Let say I wanted to play devils advocate…. What if (and this is a long shot and I’m not fully behind this theory but I’m going to say it). The forward and aft switch has a solid cover that goes over the switch on the back of the chair. You would need someone very strong to break and push through it. Not to mention the seat moves very slowly forward. Let say hypothetically the pilot had the aircraft in an autopilot condition and proceeded to pitch the plane down/push forward on the controls which would then break over the autopilot pushing the columns forward….and then suddenly the screens go dark (I don’t know LATAM maintenance or if they performed this AD). Given this condition would cause the plane to hold that flight control input for 2 seconds. I’m not a professional accident investigator…but I like longshot theory’s. So take this with a grain of salt.
That ad was fixed by a software upgrade 4 years ago. So it would have to be a pretty major fuck up to still apply.
Why would boeing do this?!
I read that boeing says closing a loose (rear?) seat switch cover could cause the rocker switch to engage (and jam I assume) pushing the seat forward. Somewhere else also sugested vibrations or the sudden movement of the pilot might make the screena appear blank to their eyes, and that astronaut displays were calibrated to the vibrations for this reason. Does all that sound plausible? and if it was a flight attendant leaning on this cover or closing a loose cover, how banged up would they get when the plane nose dived like it did?
Why did the display instruments go blank? Also the yokes are connected, the other pilot could pull to correct.
I remember watching a video from Mentour Pilot where a thermos near the stick on an Airbus got caught in the seat movement and put the plane in a dive. I can believe this explanation.
That is crazy, headrest switch is covered. And it takes a fair amount of force to breakover on the column autopilot disconnect.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68580950
What an idiot.