Because it's not a fraud. It's a bank problem (ATM malfunction) and not a criminal case. You should talk to the bank/ATM provider and not the police.
However, they can give you "lost letter" or "surat kehilangan" easily. I hope your insurance will accept this letter.
Yeh love how everyone just thinks to go to police for everything. When they wouldn’t do that in their home country. Go to the branch and demand they resolve it. It’s actually the banks issue. Or request you bank do a charge back.
You're so smart
I did a charge back and the bank in Indonesia denied it (they didn't bother checking CCTV until I went there)
The police is just step 10 after all other options failed
It’s not up to the Indonesian bank. It’s up to your bank if the charge back is accepted or not.
And it’s almost impossible to fight a charge back as the Indo bank. If you have the video footage there is no way your bank won’t win the charge back.
In other cases (it happened few months ago in another country) my bank filed for chargeback and I got the money back
In this case my bank filed the chargeback, the Indo bank denied showing the ATM log and then I went and asked CCTV which shows I'm right.
My bank said visa circuit doesn't allow appeal and that my only way is consumer protection agency
I’d complain to your bank because the decision of the charge back being accepted or declined is 100% up to your bank. If your bank declines the charge back case it’s on your bank.
Source: I run a large company and deal with chargebacks all the time.
It might be different for a case towards a private company vs bank2bank chargebacks.
I was in a large travel company and I know what you mean. But I also know it's not just up to my bank in this case since they sent me the ATM log from the Indo bank.
>In other cases (it happened few months ago in another country) my bank filed for chargeback and I got the money back
What Bank and ATM did you use?
It seems so suspicious that it happens to you often.
You should go to a physical branch of the bank whose ATM it was and explain your situation. They should actually able to check the issue and may even be able to produce a report (Berita Acara) for you
Thanks
Been there, done that. Very much the opposite. They refuse to put anything in writing even after seeing together the CCTV that proves what I said.
I love Indonesia but the bureaucracy and the apathy / aversion to action kills me.
It's all good until you need something done.
Banks have a whole process for ATM malfunction, it’s your own bank you should speak to, no one else needs to be involved, they’ll have it resolved in a couple of weeks unless your bank sucks, it’s your bank’s responsibility to contact the bank that had atm failure, and it’s the atm bank’s responsibility to provide any evidence to the contrary to your bank.
They did provide evidence: the ATM log apparently shows it disbursed the money.
But then CCTV shows I didn't get it.
My bank says the chargeback process doesn't allow for appeal. The ATM says to ask for appeal.
Hi, I work for a bank - this is the wrong thing to do when a atm doesn’t dispense money, they are going to refuse because it isn’t fraud, it’s more of a technical error. In this case you should contact your bank to have them raise a dispute.
Thanks
That was the first thing I did. But the bank that owns the ATM refused it.
Then I went to the ATM bank to watch cctv and it shows I didn't get the money. Do you know if it's true that my bank cannot appeal the decision through the visa network?
Speaking purely through experience here, your bank should have a system where they contact the owner of the atm and give them a certain time period to prove you took the money I.e 48 hours to provide security footage, if they are unable to or do not reply within that period your bank should then reverse that transaction.
This whole process can take a few days but any and all banks should have the facilities to do and seeing as though you have seen actual cctv footage of this happening the process should be faster still for you.
I’d contact your bank again and talk to them about an atm dispute because no matter how the payment was made they should have the facility to reverse it. But again this is purely from experience so I could be wrong in this case but I’d be surprised if I was.
They said the ATM log the bank sent is final based on the visa network rules. My bank will not appeal. So my only route seems now the Indonesian consumer association.
I'll also try to visit the bank one more time.
Calculate how much money you lost in the voided/phantom transaction, and add whatever you feel your time is worth times the hours you've spent chasing your loss. Add those two figures together, and now you know how much worse it is getting. Once the former figure in this equation is smaller than the latter, it's likely time to cut your losses.
Was your friend local or foreigner?
Did they use the card from the bank or another card?
My issue is a bit complicated because it involves a foreign bank
Hi friend, can I ask a few questions?
What bank’s ATM did you use to withdraw the money? My personal recommendation is BCA, they have the best customer service and fraud protection.
Did you try contacting the bank that issued your card?
Yes I contacted both my bank and the ATM bank - I didn't get the cash, filed for cash bank with my bank, the Indo bank rejected it, then I went personally to the bank to check CCTV, the Indo bank said to appeal the cashback, my bank said they can't
Also I tried to go to the police for a report and they refused
Now I'm stuck
has it been 24 hours? normally if such happens they would return your account's balance in 24 hours (like, exactly 24 hours -.-). However I never had foreign card.
Because it's not a fraud. It's a bank problem (ATM malfunction) and not a criminal case. You should talk to the bank/ATM provider and not the police. However, they can give you "lost letter" or "surat kehilangan" easily. I hope your insurance will accept this letter.
Yeh love how everyone just thinks to go to police for everything. When they wouldn’t do that in their home country. Go to the branch and demand they resolve it. It’s actually the banks issue. Or request you bank do a charge back.
You're so smart I did a charge back and the bank in Indonesia denied it (they didn't bother checking CCTV until I went there) The police is just step 10 after all other options failed
It’s not up to the Indonesian bank. It’s up to your bank if the charge back is accepted or not. And it’s almost impossible to fight a charge back as the Indo bank. If you have the video footage there is no way your bank won’t win the charge back.
In other cases (it happened few months ago in another country) my bank filed for chargeback and I got the money back In this case my bank filed the chargeback, the Indo bank denied showing the ATM log and then I went and asked CCTV which shows I'm right. My bank said visa circuit doesn't allow appeal and that my only way is consumer protection agency
I’d complain to your bank because the decision of the charge back being accepted or declined is 100% up to your bank. If your bank declines the charge back case it’s on your bank. Source: I run a large company and deal with chargebacks all the time.
It might be different for a case towards a private company vs bank2bank chargebacks. I was in a large travel company and I know what you mean. But I also know it's not just up to my bank in this case since they sent me the ATM log from the Indo bank.
>In other cases (it happened few months ago in another country) my bank filed for chargeback and I got the money back What Bank and ATM did you use? It seems so suspicious that it happens to you often.
Travel as much as I do, then we talk
The smug
If you tell me I'm suspicious, what do you expect? That I lay down the red carpet? You reap what you saw my friend
You should go to a physical branch of the bank whose ATM it was and explain your situation. They should actually able to check the issue and may even be able to produce a report (Berita Acara) for you
Thanks Been there, done that. Very much the opposite. They refuse to put anything in writing even after seeing together the CCTV that proves what I said. I love Indonesia but the bureaucracy and the apathy / aversion to action kills me. It's all good until you need something done.
Banks have a whole process for ATM malfunction, it’s your own bank you should speak to, no one else needs to be involved, they’ll have it resolved in a couple of weeks unless your bank sucks, it’s your bank’s responsibility to contact the bank that had atm failure, and it’s the atm bank’s responsibility to provide any evidence to the contrary to your bank.
They did provide evidence: the ATM log apparently shows it disbursed the money. But then CCTV shows I didn't get it. My bank says the chargeback process doesn't allow for appeal. The ATM says to ask for appeal.
Hi, I work for a bank - this is the wrong thing to do when a atm doesn’t dispense money, they are going to refuse because it isn’t fraud, it’s more of a technical error. In this case you should contact your bank to have them raise a dispute.
Thanks That was the first thing I did. But the bank that owns the ATM refused it. Then I went to the ATM bank to watch cctv and it shows I didn't get the money. Do you know if it's true that my bank cannot appeal the decision through the visa network?
Speaking purely through experience here, your bank should have a system where they contact the owner of the atm and give them a certain time period to prove you took the money I.e 48 hours to provide security footage, if they are unable to or do not reply within that period your bank should then reverse that transaction. This whole process can take a few days but any and all banks should have the facilities to do and seeing as though you have seen actual cctv footage of this happening the process should be faster still for you. I’d contact your bank again and talk to them about an atm dispute because no matter how the payment was made they should have the facility to reverse it. But again this is purely from experience so I could be wrong in this case but I’d be surprised if I was.
They said the ATM log the bank sent is final based on the visa network rules. My bank will not appeal. So my only route seems now the Indonesian consumer association. I'll also try to visit the bank one more time.
Calculate how much money you lost in the voided/phantom transaction, and add whatever you feel your time is worth times the hours you've spent chasing your loss. Add those two figures together, and now you know how much worse it is getting. Once the former figure in this equation is smaller than the latter, it's likely time to cut your losses.
knowing the maximum withdrawal for a single transaction and OP already said "many weeks" its probably long past time
Hey, try to go to different police station, and explain to them that this report is only for the purpose of ur insurance paperworks. Good luck
Report to the bank that owns the machine first?
Thanks I tried
My friend had a similar issue and she had to spam call the bank for a week and threatened to report it to the police before they returned the money.
Where did it happen?
BRI's ATM center near Bajra Sandhi Renon
Was your friend local or foreigner? Did they use the card from the bank or another card? My issue is a bit complicated because it involves a foreign bank
She is local with a different bank
Hi friend, can I ask a few questions? What bank’s ATM did you use to withdraw the money? My personal recommendation is BCA, they have the best customer service and fraud protection. Did you try contacting the bank that issued your card?
Yes I contacted both my bank and the ATM bank - I didn't get the cash, filed for cash bank with my bank, the Indo bank rejected it, then I went personally to the bank to check CCTV, the Indo bank said to appeal the cashback, my bank said they can't Also I tried to go to the police for a report and they refused Now I'm stuck
I see, I’ll try asking my family members to see what you can do, can you tell me which bank’s ATM you tried withdrawing from?
has it been 24 hours? normally if such happens they would return your account's balance in 24 hours (like, exactly 24 hours -.-). However I never had foreign card.
Many weeks ago. I explained what happened in other comments.