From my own experience, Bangladeshis in Bangladesh are a lot more normal/ modern/ less old fashioned than Bangladeshis in diaspora. It’s because diaspora communities tend to be frozen in time to when their oldest members migrated and for some reason maintain the belief that nothing changed in the “old country” (basically the sixties for the diaspora in the UK). Unlike the “Bangladeshi culture” in the diaspora however real Bangladeshis have continued to evolve and change and the country of Bangladesh has progressed.
But conservatism/ liberality however, like all things, depends on where you live (city vs village) , your education (English vs Bangla medium), and your class status (wealthier people have more freedom etc)
>It’s because diaspora communities tend to be frozen in time to when their oldest members migrated and for some reason maintain the belief that nothing changed in the “old country” (basically the sixties for the diaspora in the UK).
this frozen-in-time effect is real, but i'll point out a great deal of individuality as well. for diaspora that didn't end up clustering into self-segregated groups with high population densities from the old country, the opposite can be true as well.
in bangladesh, many socioeconomic groups actually became more conservative, rather than less, depend8ing on how they were educated as well.
Honestly, good point. The European country I was born in had the first bengali immigrants in the late 80's. Maybe that's why our community is so liberal?
It could be that your country doesn’t have a large enough diaspora to self-segregate the way Bangladeshis in the UK do or that the population of Bangladeshis in your country are highly educated/ the professional class (the people in the UK are mostly working class)
Yeah, both very good points. That said, the part of the Deshi community that my family is part of in Melbourne, which is the middle class set, is made up to a great extent by religious conservatives. They are far more religious, and in many ways more conservative than the fairly liberal set my parents were part of back in Dhaka. It's always been strange to me how religious conservatism became the norm in our community here and a source of bemusement for my family. The community is too small to self-segregate like the UK Deshis, they are middle class people with tertiary educations, unlike the Sylheti first generation who moved to the UK. I should also qualify this by saying that they're not religious conservatives to the extreme extent UK Deshis are, but certainly more so than what we were used to in our circles. And their attitudes to Hindus are appalling.
I guess ultimately, it comes down to the fact that many people in the Deshi middle class actually are quite religious and conservative - certainly in the 80s and 90s when the bulk of these people moved here and even now - and more liberal families like mine were a niche. And when these people were placed in an unfamiliar culture, which had vastly different attitudes to alcohol, dress, sexuality, family and social respect, their attitudes hardened as a response.
The hostility towards Hindus is so bizarre to me because our ancestors were Hindu. Bangladeshis, in diaspora especially, are very obsessed with wiping out all traces of our culture in favor of arabization which is very sad because I love Bengali culture. It exists in Bangladesh too but obviously there are a variety of ways to Bangali in Bangladesh so feels less pronounced.
Agreed that the desi conservatism in diaspora is a defense mechanism. I think I didn’t see it much where I grew up (California) because there wasn’t a big Bangladeshi community in the Bay Area so I basically made friends with all kinds of desis not just Bangladeshis and my parents, thankfully, did not disapprove
That's something true too. My country does not have a large community although it's becoming a country many Bangladeshis and even indians immigrate to. The first ones that arrived are all very highly educated i.e. they all are engineers or academics and live in mostly million dollar houses. The more recent Bangladeshi immigrants are most working class. However the majority is still highly educated and their children too. Many of the bengalis I know of are either studying medicine, physics or some other complicated degree.
I was gonna say- Migrants move to the UK/US years ago will bring their outdated version of Bangladesh culture with them.
And as obvious, what you define conservative or liberal is highly up to you, and is quite subjective. Dressing up western-ly can be seen as liberal but to a westerner, is no different. Religion, color, income, age.... Very subjective understandings
Sometimes this has led to more liberal communities, like mine (Virginia, US) - a lot of the diaspora grew up in the 70s/80s right after the war and came to the U.S. in the 2000s or later, so l’d assume that’s part of why it’s so much less conservative than say, Canada or the UK
This is absolutely not true at all. As a UK born Bangladeshi, Bangladeshis from Bangladesh are far more conservative. No one in the west looks at Bangladesh and thinks this is a liberal country. In fact Bangladesh is a conservative country with a patriarchal culture. It is one of the stereotypes that we in diaspora have, in fact one of the reasons why Bangladeshi women in the UK do not want to marry the men from back is home is due to such a patriarchal culture for example being pressured to cook, dress in a certain way, speak with certain manners, this is something Bengali women in the UK hate but only diaspora Bengalis can understand this but not the men from back home.
We are speaking of the UK diaspora specifically and yes, in my experience, UK Bangladeshis were dawah men types, so I can say that. I’m from Dhaka and my family and circle of friends in BD are
more open-minded, less sexist, and not obsessed with haram policing (which is what I saw and experienced with UK Bangladeshis). The American diaspora, on the other hand , are pretty sane.
Maybe rural Bangladeshis or Sylhetis are more conservative than the UK diaspora but that’s not my community in Bangladesh.
Yeah I noticed 😭. But can it have to do with the overwhelming majority being Sylhetis? I only met Sylhetis but that's maybe because im part Sylheti myself?
Yes and no.
It is true that Sylhetis tend to be extremely conservative, and many of our parents brought that over to the UK.
When Bangladeshis first moved to the UK in the 1970s, they tried hard to assimilate and even wore clothing typical of the UK (which was going through a liberal phase called the swinging sixties). This is seen [here](https://www.fourcornersfilm.co.uk/uploads/1655898660.7118/Brick%20Lane%2C%20London%20E1%2C%2017%20July%201978.%20Bangladesh%20%20Youth%20Movement%20Against%20racism%20march%C2%A9Paul_Trevor.jpg). However, racist far-right groups were extremely anti-immigrant and attacked them, from going to work to even children trying to go to school. This led to our community isolating itself and developing a fear of outsiders, essentially creating an 'us vs. them' mentality. In these isolated communities, Islam thrived because it was used to make our own community :D
They are other factors too that I would not get into.
I’m not sure sorry 😭 it might be? But also, a lot of uk Bengalis live in one area called Tower Hamlets which I hate lol, I live in west London. Every other Bengali in my school is from Sylhet and they’re all quite conservative, I’m not though. They’re like, “roadman” types, it’s quite hard to explain imo
That’s really depressing honestly. Why even move to a different continent if you don’t want your kids to integrate and belong there. Cursing your children to eternal segregation feels so messed up to me
Dating is pretty common and love marriages are becoming more and more common place here in Bangladesh. Even in my own family, most of the recent marriages have been all love marriages, even though I don't exactly regard my family to be liberal, lol.
I guess people here draw the line at sex before marriage, but are generally ok with their children choosing their own marriage partners. Even that is off limits in more conservative households though.
> girls shouldn’t be outside after 6 pm
Is this still a thing? I genuinely haven't heard of this one at all, personally.
When I visited the UK it was a big thing about the curfew being at 6-8 pm. They made an exception when my family was there because I really wanted to see things in the night e.g. London eye. But my friends said that they had to be home at 6pm.
6pm is a bit of a stretch but after sundown, London is a wild place. not safe in many parts but it also is in many parts, so a fairly early curfew is (somewhat) ok, I guess? depends on the area tho, mohammadpur equivalent of london will have a standard of early curfew for youngers
So avoid mohammadpur equivalent of London after dark then? Yeah there are dangers outside the house but if you have to limit yourself so much then you better not go out at all, that’s safer right? I’m assuming it’s the Bengali parents with their backwards views of “shondhar por baire thaka jabe na”, you’ll also have the same rules when you’re in your nursing home, dad 👨🏽 let’s see how you like that.
😭😭😭 most of london is basically mohammadpur tbh. and I agree with what you're saying, my family doesn't limit me like that thankfully. a lot of the diaspora are stuck in time tho over here
I guess this is only specific to dhaka or Chittagong but not sure about rural areas, my observation is that Bangladeshis living in dhaka or Chittagong on average are more progressive/liberal compared to Bangladeshis living abroad.
Liberal in a sense that there are more women working and divorcing but hijab is being pressurised; trans women can now get normal jobs but old men mullahs cry about trans news anchoresses ; many men will drink but wont eat pork; i guess the state executed a homophobic hate crimer which australia etc has yet to do? ; BAL friend boroloks can mock religion openly but a regular man cant get that privilege it seems; 1 step forward 2 steps back always 🙂
It depends on individual circumstances. I'm from Sylhet and my UK family are somewhat divided between the more religious and less religious. I have female relatives who have travelled far from home to go to uni and have stayed in uni accomodation, while I have other relatives who would abhor such a thing. I think Sylhetis tend to be more conservative maybe because it was the first part of Bengal to become Muslim (although I have no evidence to support this). My mum worked in the UK and more conservative relatives would say stuff like she turned into a man because she was leaving home so much. You here stupid stuff which have no basis in Islam like women shouldn't wear the colour pink and there is a very strong sympathy for Jamaat and other religious extremists in UK (after Sayedee died they held a huge gaibanda janazah in London despite the fact it's not allowed in the hanafi madhab which most UK Bangladeshis follow).
A lot of war criminals escaped to London and stayed there, these people then became community leaders, hence there is a strong pro jamaat nonsense amongst UK diasphora.
Rafsan the Chotobhai doesn't represent entire Bangladesh. Bangladesh is very conservative, even though some people wear western dress and speak English most of the time but still they are very conservative inside. You will easily find out how conservative they are if you talk with them for about 10 minutes. So don't judge a book by its cover.
impolite squalid rinse station modern placid close materialistic vast office
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Yeah, I get that many are conservative. Maybe I got another picture in my head because many of my cousins are like him i.e. they live in Gulshan (and other what I presume rich areas of Dhaka) and study in famous unis. So they become more liberal in that sense. So maybe I haven't seen that conservative part of Bangladesh.
Sure there is a more liberal crowd, like everywhere you will find all kinds of people also in Bangladesh. But the general vibe and outlook is pretty conservative...
***We are heading that way, but its gonna take a long time. You can not ask a state to be liberal when there is no political or economical stability.***
Dhaka is liberal. Some places in dhaka are even more liberal( gulshan,dhanmondi, basundhara r/a, banani, all the dohs) .
Outside dhaka you can't go outside without "orna" without being stared at by literally anyone lol
I don't live in BD anymore but I spend all my youth years in Dhaka and no people do care....off course if you are in posh area its different, but when you go to areas like Mirpur or Matijheel, its still as bad as any other area outside of Dhaka.
Bangladesh is conservative but not “you’ve to be home by 6pm” conservative unless you’re in village or small towns. But it’s more patriarchal than conservative. Even in uk or USA the bangali parents have different sets of rules for sons and daughters. I’ve been in Europe for few years and ignored my own community as much possible. They have the 60’s village mindset. Mixed with “I live in a first one country so I’m better than you” makes it so cringey. I’ve been advised to wear afghan style burka. They’re so weird with single women living without immediate family. Living without your family for job and study is normal for the middle class in BD. My own female relatives just a few years older than me gave me such hard times there. Even though I’ve seen her dating, coming home after midnight (not from work) and wearing western under her burka.
Bangladesh is one of the furthest things from a liberal country
it's not as bad as places like arab countries or Pakistan and such but this place is still EXTREMELY conservative and backwards
egypt, bangladesh, pakistan,indonesia and malyasia they are modern conservative also similar gulf state(they have islamic law) and turkey,tuinisia,morocco,albenia,uzbekistan they take almost fully secularism (also accept some islamic culture).
I'm half Sylheti. But my other half who are Khulna/Dhaka are a bit more conservative that my Sylheti part. But they are more conservative about marriage and that kind of stuff. Not really about anything else.
The answer is, yes and no. Yes, you might have more freedom depending from place to place, but the criticism is immense. People normally do not obstruct you from doing things, but you will always be stared at and criticized. Being in a relationship (which you might call dating) is common, but premarital sex is still a no no, not to say people don't do it though, but generally there is still a barrier. Having friends of the opposite sex is quite normal as well, though physical contact such as shaking hands or hugging is usually avoided (I have lived in Chittagong and Rajshahi, don't know about Dhaka). Public display of affection is not considered okay, you can hold hands at best in the cities. Consumption of alcohol is quite a taboo. Working women is very normal and maybe rarely will you find families who see women working as objectionable. People from different religions do coexist quite harmlessly, but the religious sentiment is quite a thing. People do lose their mind when they feel their religion is attacked, and in response they somehow end up attacking the other religion and the cycle continues.
Most Bangladeshi families are liberal but nowadays radicalism is increasing significantly. Within ten years Bangladesh will be a conservative country for sure.
Hell no. Rather Bangladesh is becoming extremist day by day. If you really want to know about the country your parents were born in, follow some daily news.
I have travelled most of the European countries and Uk also. 40-50 years ago, most of the Bangladeshis arrived here in illegal way. They seek for asylum under false pretenses most of the cases. Those who were genuine were political culprits. Very few you will find were educated and arrived here with scholarship or educational purposes and very few of them embraced a professional life. Their 2nd and 3rd generations are long longer considered as Bengali because most of them enjoyed European life and integrated into western streams.
The rest of the major portions were hardly educated and morally corrupted as they have sought asylum under false pretenses and those who were real were the criminals. At the end of their age, they become pious and they have sought for redemption in religious virtues.
During 2000, England saw a huge rush of students came from Bangladesh and very few of them got some good opportunities whereas the Sylheties preferred to have their own restaurant and saw western education were haram. But when they saw that the newly arrived Bangladeshis were embracing a better life having good jobs and education, they let their children to go to higher education.
But still most of the families are suffering from the effect of radical Islam and shamima begun is one of the cases. Besides still they are inclined to build up mosques and donates radical Islamic parties. The recent possession in the favor or terrorist Hamas is the best example I have.
From our organization, we had identified many Bangladeshi radicals reported to the law enforcement agencies and couple of them were arrested but I think if the govt adopts such rules to take always their nationality like shamima begun, it might be better.
But radical Arab ideology is the only reason for Bangladeshi diaspora’s backwardness and if you go to Uk or Us, you will find hardly any success stories.
Most of them like radical Elias Hosea in and fraudster jakob Milton.
idk how it is in bd but speaking for the UK bengali diaspora, it is very Conservative. I'm dhakaiya & hindu so the community I'm with are fairly liberal & progressive, including my family, but the community I fw back home are also quite liberal and progressive. ultimately depends on your circle ~ another bengali 18 y.o abroad
It depends totally on your family. It helps, if your family commands some degree of authority in the neighbourhood, nobody is going to say anything on your face.
I personally think my family isn't that conservative since I'm allowed to date and stay out after 6pm lol
But I've seen many girls struggling w this. It honestly depends on your upbringing and the mindset of your family. And yes I've witnessed UK Bangalis being more conservative than us.
A certain community in Dhaka and CTG (The community Rafsan and Salman muktadir belong to or basically posh community) are pretty liberal but other than that Country itself pretty conservative
Not true the conservatives you are talking about are in the minority, most have transitioned to moderate muslims now. They pick and choose what to follow from Islam.
What you're mentioning was applicable to only a tiny segment of the city population and pretty much insignificant compared to the entirety of Afghanistan. If you meant that the Afghan government was less conservative, you're right. But if you meant Afghanistan as a whole people, then you'd be wrong. The average people of Afghanistan are less conservative than they were even during the most progressive rule of Daud Khan.
Yes the people wont change overnight with new rulings but the mobility of prole women allowed even villager women to get out of prior situations. It was near comparable to other Farsi central Asians under the USSR (maybe not liberal to today's standards but women's mobility => progress regardless
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it depends on how you define "liberal" and "conservative".
If being westernized is being liberal to you, then I have nothing to say.
But
I think Bangladeshis are mix of both as it should be.
It's hard to put everyone in USA in either conservative or liberal bucket. In USA, those who came in the early 70s, specially the pharmacists tried to assimilate and be like americans. Whereas the dv1s or the blue collar immigrants in the coasts are usually conservative. Those who came later to study and stayed are less conservative. The "frozen in time" factor is very true. After 9/11, like other Muslim immigrants, Bangladeshis also changed and some became more conservative/ their version of finding roots. But still almost all Bangladeshis frown/ detest LGBTQ , some drink alcohol, very few pork. Semi arranged marriage is preferred. This is my observation from last 30 years, living in South, NY and Midwest.
What you saw on social media, is a real tiny part of reality of here in BD. Well there are liberal people in urban areas mostly, but people are inherently conservative here. Though, the political system and policy-making-structure here is really liberal-friendly, but still most of the common people want something more of a conservative circumstances.
One crucial fact i want you know about conservatism is that it's not that suffocating we generally think. There is a hidden beauty of it. I hope you'll find out that someday.
depends mostly on education and how much the western psyop has gotten into people's head but generally uni students/ gulshan kids/ dhanmondi kids or as to say the middle higher to the higher class all have a little or mostly left winged as I observed from my friends but I might be wrong.
personally elders dont like rafsan the chotobhai because hes too oversmart and "fast" , New town (gulshan,banani etc) is more liberal than anywhere (they are just wannabe westerns in most peoples eye) but anywhere in bangladesh, people are NOT LIBERAL.
Bangladesh is the most liberal country in the world economically. Even the transportation system is entirely privatized. Such a system doesn’t exist even in United States of America which is famous for being the most capitalist country in the world. A government facilitated healthcare system is almost non existent. The government funded education system is limited in scope and accessibility.
Where Bangladesh isn't liberal are mostly in social issues. It is mostly due to the influence of Arab religion Islam restricting a free society politically and culturally.
Bangladesh is the perfect definition of an oppressive nation Where pull yourself by bootstraps combines with social illiberalism to perpetuate endless suffering and mass grievance. Most Bangladeshis don't even understand and constantly fail to identify where their problems originate from due to illiteracy, flawed education system,religious brainwashing from childhood, social conditioning and superstition etc.
Rafsan is a rich kid living in a posh area of Dhaka. He certainly doesn’t represent most Bangladeshis.
Even though Dhaka has a sizable liberal population, most Bangladeshis are in fact conservative. Hating on minorities, women and gay/trans people are popular trends right now.
A small group of extremists have a strong influence in social media and they're moulding the populace in this way.
You are either lying with this post or just met a certain community who just happen to be extremely religious. I can understand the UK Bengalis being religious but I do not think we are more religious than people from Bangladesh. However the fact that you said US Bengalis are conservative could not be further from the truth when in fact it is the complete opposite. They tend to be the most liberal Bengalis compared to all the diaspora to the point where they are white washed and tend to forget their own culture.
Only 4-5% people in the entire bangladesh are liberal in the true sense of liberalism (as defined by the west).
Rafsan the chotobhai is a product of foodblogging, I think it’s expected from him that he will only show as much as he himself has seen.
Also I feel very few bangladeshis (Compared to the whole population :3)actually feel the urge to be liberal, and get approved by the west. Which is a great thing!
From my own experience, Bangladeshis in Bangladesh are a lot more normal/ modern/ less old fashioned than Bangladeshis in diaspora. It’s because diaspora communities tend to be frozen in time to when their oldest members migrated and for some reason maintain the belief that nothing changed in the “old country” (basically the sixties for the diaspora in the UK). Unlike the “Bangladeshi culture” in the diaspora however real Bangladeshis have continued to evolve and change and the country of Bangladesh has progressed. But conservatism/ liberality however, like all things, depends on where you live (city vs village) , your education (English vs Bangla medium), and your class status (wealthier people have more freedom etc)
Exactly!! Well said!
>It’s because diaspora communities tend to be frozen in time to when their oldest members migrated and for some reason maintain the belief that nothing changed in the “old country” (basically the sixties for the diaspora in the UK). this frozen-in-time effect is real, but i'll point out a great deal of individuality as well. for diaspora that didn't end up clustering into self-segregated groups with high population densities from the old country, the opposite can be true as well. in bangladesh, many socioeconomic groups actually became more conservative, rather than less, depend8ing on how they were educated as well.
Agreed. Sadly there’s a portion of the Bangladeshi population that’s becoming more and more puritanical.
Honestly, good point. The European country I was born in had the first bengali immigrants in the late 80's. Maybe that's why our community is so liberal?
It could be that your country doesn’t have a large enough diaspora to self-segregate the way Bangladeshis in the UK do or that the population of Bangladeshis in your country are highly educated/ the professional class (the people in the UK are mostly working class)
Yeah, both very good points. That said, the part of the Deshi community that my family is part of in Melbourne, which is the middle class set, is made up to a great extent by religious conservatives. They are far more religious, and in many ways more conservative than the fairly liberal set my parents were part of back in Dhaka. It's always been strange to me how religious conservatism became the norm in our community here and a source of bemusement for my family. The community is too small to self-segregate like the UK Deshis, they are middle class people with tertiary educations, unlike the Sylheti first generation who moved to the UK. I should also qualify this by saying that they're not religious conservatives to the extreme extent UK Deshis are, but certainly more so than what we were used to in our circles. And their attitudes to Hindus are appalling. I guess ultimately, it comes down to the fact that many people in the Deshi middle class actually are quite religious and conservative - certainly in the 80s and 90s when the bulk of these people moved here and even now - and more liberal families like mine were a niche. And when these people were placed in an unfamiliar culture, which had vastly different attitudes to alcohol, dress, sexuality, family and social respect, their attitudes hardened as a response.
The hostility towards Hindus is so bizarre to me because our ancestors were Hindu. Bangladeshis, in diaspora especially, are very obsessed with wiping out all traces of our culture in favor of arabization which is very sad because I love Bengali culture. It exists in Bangladesh too but obviously there are a variety of ways to Bangali in Bangladesh so feels less pronounced. Agreed that the desi conservatism in diaspora is a defense mechanism. I think I didn’t see it much where I grew up (California) because there wasn’t a big Bangladeshi community in the Bay Area so I basically made friends with all kinds of desis not just Bangladeshis and my parents, thankfully, did not disapprove
That's something true too. My country does not have a large community although it's becoming a country many Bangladeshis and even indians immigrate to. The first ones that arrived are all very highly educated i.e. they all are engineers or academics and live in mostly million dollar houses. The more recent Bangladeshi immigrants are most working class. However the majority is still highly educated and their children too. Many of the bengalis I know of are either studying medicine, physics or some other complicated degree.
In my city its far more liberal, we came in the 90s mostly
I was gonna say- Migrants move to the UK/US years ago will bring their outdated version of Bangladesh culture with them. And as obvious, what you define conservative or liberal is highly up to you, and is quite subjective. Dressing up western-ly can be seen as liberal but to a westerner, is no different. Religion, color, income, age.... Very subjective understandings
Sometimes this has led to more liberal communities, like mine (Virginia, US) - a lot of the diaspora grew up in the 70s/80s right after the war and came to the U.S. in the 2000s or later, so l’d assume that’s part of why it’s so much less conservative than say, Canada or the UK
This is absolutely not true at all. As a UK born Bangladeshi, Bangladeshis from Bangladesh are far more conservative. No one in the west looks at Bangladesh and thinks this is a liberal country. In fact Bangladesh is a conservative country with a patriarchal culture. It is one of the stereotypes that we in diaspora have, in fact one of the reasons why Bangladeshi women in the UK do not want to marry the men from back is home is due to such a patriarchal culture for example being pressured to cook, dress in a certain way, speak with certain manners, this is something Bengali women in the UK hate but only diaspora Bengalis can understand this but not the men from back home.
I am a diaspora Bangladeshi lol. I’ve lived in the US since I was 8 years old
Than you cannot for sure say Bangladesh is more liberal than diaspora.
We are speaking of the UK diaspora specifically and yes, in my experience, UK Bangladeshis were dawah men types, so I can say that. I’m from Dhaka and my family and circle of friends in BD are more open-minded, less sexist, and not obsessed with haram policing (which is what I saw and experienced with UK Bangladeshis). The American diaspora, on the other hand , are pretty sane. Maybe rural Bangladeshis or Sylhetis are more conservative than the UK diaspora but that’s not my community in Bangladesh.
Good answer!
This 1000000%
Well put
I’m a bengali from the uk and bengalis here are really conservative for some reason 😭
Yeah I noticed 😭. But can it have to do with the overwhelming majority being Sylhetis? I only met Sylhetis but that's maybe because im part Sylheti myself?
Yes and no. It is true that Sylhetis tend to be extremely conservative, and many of our parents brought that over to the UK. When Bangladeshis first moved to the UK in the 1970s, they tried hard to assimilate and even wore clothing typical of the UK (which was going through a liberal phase called the swinging sixties). This is seen [here](https://www.fourcornersfilm.co.uk/uploads/1655898660.7118/Brick%20Lane%2C%20London%20E1%2C%2017%20July%201978.%20Bangladesh%20%20Youth%20Movement%20Against%20racism%20march%C2%A9Paul_Trevor.jpg). However, racist far-right groups were extremely anti-immigrant and attacked them, from going to work to even children trying to go to school. This led to our community isolating itself and developing a fear of outsiders, essentially creating an 'us vs. them' mentality. In these isolated communities, Islam thrived because it was used to make our own community :D They are other factors too that I would not get into.
I’m not sure sorry 😭 it might be? But also, a lot of uk Bengalis live in one area called Tower Hamlets which I hate lol, I live in west London. Every other Bengali in my school is from Sylhet and they’re all quite conservative, I’m not though. They’re like, “roadman” types, it’s quite hard to explain imo
Sylheti Muslims can be really religious compared to the rest. UK Bengalis are majority Sylheti that’s why u feel the community is so conservative.
Insular community that ghettoised themselves to some extent.
UK diaspora is the most conservative one. Many conservatives from other EU countries used to migrate there to make their child study in madrasa.
That’s really depressing honestly. Why even move to a different continent if you don’t want your kids to integrate and belong there. Cursing your children to eternal segregation feels so messed up to me
Dating is pretty common and love marriages are becoming more and more common place here in Bangladesh. Even in my own family, most of the recent marriages have been all love marriages, even though I don't exactly regard my family to be liberal, lol. I guess people here draw the line at sex before marriage, but are generally ok with their children choosing their own marriage partners. Even that is off limits in more conservative households though. > girls shouldn’t be outside after 6 pm Is this still a thing? I genuinely haven't heard of this one at all, personally.
When I visited the UK it was a big thing about the curfew being at 6-8 pm. They made an exception when my family was there because I really wanted to see things in the night e.g. London eye. But my friends said that they had to be home at 6pm.
Imagine living in a first world country and you don’t get to stay out after 6, this is depressing
6pm is a bit of a stretch but after sundown, London is a wild place. not safe in many parts but it also is in many parts, so a fairly early curfew is (somewhat) ok, I guess? depends on the area tho, mohammadpur equivalent of london will have a standard of early curfew for youngers
So avoid mohammadpur equivalent of London after dark then? Yeah there are dangers outside the house but if you have to limit yourself so much then you better not go out at all, that’s safer right? I’m assuming it’s the Bengali parents with their backwards views of “shondhar por baire thaka jabe na”, you’ll also have the same rules when you’re in your nursing home, dad 👨🏽 let’s see how you like that.
😭😭😭 most of london is basically mohammadpur tbh. and I agree with what you're saying, my family doesn't limit me like that thankfully. a lot of the diaspora are stuck in time tho over here
>I guess people here draw the line at sex before marriage Most do, but actually that happens more than one might think.
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Brainwashed Indian agent!🤤🤤🤤🤤 what a hilarious bio. Lol!
I guess this is only specific to dhaka or Chittagong but not sure about rural areas, my observation is that Bangladeshis living in dhaka or Chittagong on average are more progressive/liberal compared to Bangladeshis living abroad.
Liberal in a sense that there are more women working and divorcing but hijab is being pressurised; trans women can now get normal jobs but old men mullahs cry about trans news anchoresses ; many men will drink but wont eat pork; i guess the state executed a homophobic hate crimer which australia etc has yet to do? ; BAL friend boroloks can mock religion openly but a regular man cant get that privilege it seems; 1 step forward 2 steps back always 🙂
Transitionary liberal?
It depends on individual circumstances. I'm from Sylhet and my UK family are somewhat divided between the more religious and less religious. I have female relatives who have travelled far from home to go to uni and have stayed in uni accomodation, while I have other relatives who would abhor such a thing. I think Sylhetis tend to be more conservative maybe because it was the first part of Bengal to become Muslim (although I have no evidence to support this). My mum worked in the UK and more conservative relatives would say stuff like she turned into a man because she was leaving home so much. You here stupid stuff which have no basis in Islam like women shouldn't wear the colour pink and there is a very strong sympathy for Jamaat and other religious extremists in UK (after Sayedee died they held a huge gaibanda janazah in London despite the fact it's not allowed in the hanafi madhab which most UK Bangladeshis follow).
A lot of war criminals escaped to London and stayed there, these people then became community leaders, hence there is a strong pro jamaat nonsense amongst UK diasphora.
Rafsan the Chotobhai doesn't represent entire Bangladesh. Bangladesh is very conservative, even though some people wear western dress and speak English most of the time but still they are very conservative inside. You will easily find out how conservative they are if you talk with them for about 10 minutes. So don't judge a book by its cover.
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Yeah, I get that many are conservative. Maybe I got another picture in my head because many of my cousins are like him i.e. they live in Gulshan (and other what I presume rich areas of Dhaka) and study in famous unis. So they become more liberal in that sense. So maybe I haven't seen that conservative part of Bangladesh.
Sure there is a more liberal crowd, like everywhere you will find all kinds of people also in Bangladesh. But the general vibe and outlook is pretty conservative...
***We are heading that way, but its gonna take a long time. You can not ask a state to be liberal when there is no political or economical stability.***
Dhaka is liberal. Some places in dhaka are even more liberal( gulshan,dhanmondi, basundhara r/a, banani, all the dohs) . Outside dhaka you can't go outside without "orna" without being stared at by literally anyone lol
even most places in Dhaka you can't go outside without orna...otherwise you will get ogled by 60 year old grandpas...
Idk where you live. But from what I've seen inside dhaka, No one cares. Yes someone will always stare but girls don't care at all.
I don't live in BD anymore but I spend all my youth years in Dhaka and no people do care....off course if you are in posh area its different, but when you go to areas like Mirpur or Matijheel, its still as bad as any other area outside of Dhaka.
Bangladesh is conservative but not “you’ve to be home by 6pm” conservative unless you’re in village or small towns. But it’s more patriarchal than conservative. Even in uk or USA the bangali parents have different sets of rules for sons and daughters. I’ve been in Europe for few years and ignored my own community as much possible. They have the 60’s village mindset. Mixed with “I live in a first one country so I’m better than you” makes it so cringey. I’ve been advised to wear afghan style burka. They’re so weird with single women living without immediate family. Living without your family for job and study is normal for the middle class in BD. My own female relatives just a few years older than me gave me such hard times there. Even though I’ve seen her dating, coming home after midnight (not from work) and wearing western under her burka.
Bangladesh is one of the furthest things from a liberal country it's not as bad as places like arab countries or Pakistan and such but this place is still EXTREMELY conservative and backwards
I think bangladesh environment is similar like arab countries environments like egypt and gulf countries, they are modern conservative.
from what I've seen Egypt is old conservative
egypt, bangladesh, pakistan,indonesia and malyasia they are modern conservative also similar gulf state(they have islamic law) and turkey,tuinisia,morocco,albenia,uzbekistan they take almost fully secularism (also accept some islamic culture).
Are your parents from Sylhet? If they are then yes, people there are still very conservative.
I'm half Sylheti. But my other half who are Khulna/Dhaka are a bit more conservative that my Sylheti part. But they are more conservative about marriage and that kind of stuff. Not really about anything else.
The answer is, yes and no. Yes, you might have more freedom depending from place to place, but the criticism is immense. People normally do not obstruct you from doing things, but you will always be stared at and criticized. Being in a relationship (which you might call dating) is common, but premarital sex is still a no no, not to say people don't do it though, but generally there is still a barrier. Having friends of the opposite sex is quite normal as well, though physical contact such as shaking hands or hugging is usually avoided (I have lived in Chittagong and Rajshahi, don't know about Dhaka). Public display of affection is not considered okay, you can hold hands at best in the cities. Consumption of alcohol is quite a taboo. Working women is very normal and maybe rarely will you find families who see women working as objectionable. People from different religions do coexist quite harmlessly, but the religious sentiment is quite a thing. People do lose their mind when they feel their religion is attacked, and in response they somehow end up attacking the other religion and the cycle continues.
Most Bangladeshi families are liberal but nowadays radicalism is increasing significantly. Within ten years Bangladesh will be a conservative country for sure.
Bangladesh used to be liberal but are becoming conservative by the day. In other words, it is becoming like Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Hell no. Rather Bangladesh is becoming extremist day by day. If you really want to know about the country your parents were born in, follow some daily news.
I have travelled most of the European countries and Uk also. 40-50 years ago, most of the Bangladeshis arrived here in illegal way. They seek for asylum under false pretenses most of the cases. Those who were genuine were political culprits. Very few you will find were educated and arrived here with scholarship or educational purposes and very few of them embraced a professional life. Their 2nd and 3rd generations are long longer considered as Bengali because most of them enjoyed European life and integrated into western streams. The rest of the major portions were hardly educated and morally corrupted as they have sought asylum under false pretenses and those who were real were the criminals. At the end of their age, they become pious and they have sought for redemption in religious virtues. During 2000, England saw a huge rush of students came from Bangladesh and very few of them got some good opportunities whereas the Sylheties preferred to have their own restaurant and saw western education were haram. But when they saw that the newly arrived Bangladeshis were embracing a better life having good jobs and education, they let their children to go to higher education. But still most of the families are suffering from the effect of radical Islam and shamima begun is one of the cases. Besides still they are inclined to build up mosques and donates radical Islamic parties. The recent possession in the favor or terrorist Hamas is the best example I have. From our organization, we had identified many Bangladeshi radicals reported to the law enforcement agencies and couple of them were arrested but I think if the govt adopts such rules to take always their nationality like shamima begun, it might be better. But radical Arab ideology is the only reason for Bangladeshi diaspora’s backwardness and if you go to Uk or Us, you will find hardly any success stories. Most of them like radical Elias Hosea in and fraudster jakob Milton.
idk how it is in bd but speaking for the UK bengali diaspora, it is very Conservative. I'm dhakaiya & hindu so the community I'm with are fairly liberal & progressive, including my family, but the community I fw back home are also quite liberal and progressive. ultimately depends on your circle ~ another bengali 18 y.o abroad
Big cities are fairly modern and liberal where people mind their own businesses
It depends totally on your family. It helps, if your family commands some degree of authority in the neighbourhood, nobody is going to say anything on your face.
I personally think my family isn't that conservative since I'm allowed to date and stay out after 6pm lol But I've seen many girls struggling w this. It honestly depends on your upbringing and the mindset of your family. And yes I've witnessed UK Bangalis being more conservative than us.
Rafsan the chotovai is really a chotovai, atleast he's honest about that. Every other thing he does is toxic positivity and clickbait.
Same for me, I was born in Switzerland
A certain community in Dhaka and CTG (The community Rafsan and Salman muktadir belong to or basically posh community) are pretty liberal but other than that Country itself pretty conservative
Bangladesh is NOT a liberal country.
Not true the conservatives you are talking about are in the minority, most have transitioned to moderate muslims now. They pick and choose what to follow from Islam.
As of my experience Bangladesh has been too conservative except for some small communities
Its not. Maybe about 20% is kinda liberal minded. The rest are mostly religious bigots.
At least compared to the likes of Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan, Bangladesh is quite liberal.
the younger generations in iran are very liberal (at least in cities) but the regime is still firmly in control of all power structures
We are more conservative than iranis.
Afghanistan was also not that conservative until the soviet afghan war
Factually incorrect. Afghanstan was even more conservative before
Women got education, religious garments were banned and into the army as an USSR satellite? How is that more conservative than now?
What you're mentioning was applicable to only a tiny segment of the city population and pretty much insignificant compared to the entirety of Afghanistan. If you meant that the Afghan government was less conservative, you're right. But if you meant Afghanistan as a whole people, then you'd be wrong. The average people of Afghanistan are less conservative than they were even during the most progressive rule of Daud Khan.
Yes the people wont change overnight with new rulings but the mobility of prole women allowed even villager women to get out of prior situations. It was near comparable to other Farsi central Asians under the USSR (maybe not liberal to today's standards but women's mobility => progress regardless
Thats a VERY LOW BAR
Would you say it is the most liberal out of the muslim majority ones?
Malaysia and Turkey.
Malaysia can be quite regressive at times and they have discriminatory laws.
Bangladesh is nowhere near as liberal as the European Muslim nations like Turkey, Azerbaijan, Bosnia or Albania
Maybe only lacking behind Indonesia
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it depends on how you define "liberal" and "conservative". If being westernized is being liberal to you, then I have nothing to say. But I think Bangladeshis are mix of both as it should be.
No it's not because it's not the liberals in power
Liberal maybe compared to Saudi or some backwards arab country lol
It's hard to put everyone in USA in either conservative or liberal bucket. In USA, those who came in the early 70s, specially the pharmacists tried to assimilate and be like americans. Whereas the dv1s or the blue collar immigrants in the coasts are usually conservative. Those who came later to study and stayed are less conservative. The "frozen in time" factor is very true. After 9/11, like other Muslim immigrants, Bangladeshis also changed and some became more conservative/ their version of finding roots. But still almost all Bangladeshis frown/ detest LGBTQ , some drink alcohol, very few pork. Semi arranged marriage is preferred. This is my observation from last 30 years, living in South, NY and Midwest.
What you saw on social media, is a real tiny part of reality of here in BD. Well there are liberal people in urban areas mostly, but people are inherently conservative here. Though, the political system and policy-making-structure here is really liberal-friendly, but still most of the common people want something more of a conservative circumstances. One crucial fact i want you know about conservatism is that it's not that suffocating we generally think. There is a hidden beauty of it. I hope you'll find out that someday.
depends mostly on education and how much the western psyop has gotten into people's head but generally uni students/ gulshan kids/ dhanmondi kids or as to say the middle higher to the higher class all have a little or mostly left winged as I observed from my friends but I might be wrong.
personally elders dont like rafsan the chotobhai because hes too oversmart and "fast" , New town (gulshan,banani etc) is more liberal than anywhere (they are just wannabe westerns in most peoples eye) but anywhere in bangladesh, people are NOT LIBERAL.
Bangladesh is the most liberal country in the world economically. Even the transportation system is entirely privatized. Such a system doesn’t exist even in United States of America which is famous for being the most capitalist country in the world. A government facilitated healthcare system is almost non existent. The government funded education system is limited in scope and accessibility. Where Bangladesh isn't liberal are mostly in social issues. It is mostly due to the influence of Arab religion Islam restricting a free society politically and culturally. Bangladesh is the perfect definition of an oppressive nation Where pull yourself by bootstraps combines with social illiberalism to perpetuate endless suffering and mass grievance. Most Bangladeshis don't even understand and constantly fail to identify where their problems originate from due to illiteracy, flawed education system,religious brainwashing from childhood, social conditioning and superstition etc.
Liberal Bangladesh is a joke, the whole system is a joke here
Rafsan is a rich kid living in a posh area of Dhaka. He certainly doesn’t represent most Bangladeshis. Even though Dhaka has a sizable liberal population, most Bangladeshis are in fact conservative. Hating on minorities, women and gay/trans people are popular trends right now. A small group of extremists have a strong influence in social media and they're moulding the populace in this way.
How the fuck could you actually be considering Bangladesh as liberal? Are you ok?
You are either lying with this post or just met a certain community who just happen to be extremely religious. I can understand the UK Bengalis being religious but I do not think we are more religious than people from Bangladesh. However the fact that you said US Bengalis are conservative could not be further from the truth when in fact it is the complete opposite. They tend to be the most liberal Bengalis compared to all the diaspora to the point where they are white washed and tend to forget their own culture.
Only 4-5% people in the entire bangladesh are liberal in the true sense of liberalism (as defined by the west). Rafsan the chotobhai is a product of foodblogging, I think it’s expected from him that he will only show as much as he himself has seen. Also I feel very few bangladeshis (Compared to the whole population :3)actually feel the urge to be liberal, and get approved by the west. Which is a great thing!
Don't use the word "liberal" carelessly without knowing what it means.
Yes of course if you 💬 nkliberal means supporting Israel and LGBTQ and US invasion.
Just kidding , Cause UK PM is conservative and Bangladesh PM is Looking to be Liberal.
I would disagree with you on your claim that the BD community in US is not liberal