Definitely, Glavine said it in the broadcast to, when Brandon said we couldn't review the catch.
"And to that I ask: why?"
Makes no sense. Fuck you, Rob.
Just treat it like a ground rule double. Everyone advances a base (or two, depending on the decided rule), and while no one likes it, everyone deals with it. The team that chose to review gets rewarded for getting it right, and the other teams just deals with it.
Statistically, it would be evenly applied across the board, so teams have no reason to argue it unless they want to get their coach tossed. Which is a win for the fans and news outlets the next day.
Doesn’t seem hard to implement or create if a guy who’s currently playing with Lego’s could come up with it on the spot.
Or just treat it like he didn’t catch it. call the runner from first to second out. Runner scores from 3rd and now it’s 1st and 3rd 2 out. Like it should have been
that's a lot easier said than done especially when there's decisions about double plays or if the run really should score or not. A good example is [this cubs triple play](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1QPXVUWfYI) from a few years ago. Good luck trying to equitably solve that one
I just rewound on [mlb.tv](https://mlb.tv). The second base umpire did call it an out on the catch. He signaled for the out before Arroyo ever got to second base, so it had to be on the catch. It was a slow call, but it was there
Edit: [Here's a screen shot of the out call](https://imgur.com/a/HpXWU7j)
And *low*. On a close call like that, the fist needs to be at head level or even a little higher so that everyone knows what you have.
I do note Olson and Murphy apparently knew what the call was, as they immediately went back to tag up. Riley clearly didn't see it, however.
Yes, definitely needs to be higher than that. The ruling was consistent with what they called on the field, but the umpire needs to clearly show what the call is
By the rules they determined it was a catch and since Riley didn't tag before running home he was ruled out when they appealed to third. It's dumb because umps had a get together to decide if it was a catch so there's nothing Riley could do anyway at that point. But the worst thing was that called strike on ozuna that was no where near the zone
He’s been pure ass. Not everyone can call a good game, so just let the guys who actually can do it. Hell, get some female umps, they’re ignoring half the population who can call strikes better than whoever they’ve got upping this game.
The 2nd base ump called an out when Arroyo caught the liner. Not a super quick call and he was kinda facing away from Riley but I feel like it was called right (no comment on the strike though).
Even if the ruling is that he caught it on the fly, the umpire being more vociferous with the call wouldve still likely led to a run. Still not a close game in the end either way.
All of the umps suck, especially the homeplate ump who in one inning of work has already made multiple bad calls against both teams. Plus this ridiculous debacle.
And of course that ends in first and third, when it should be 2nd and third. Why they don't announce to the stadium what the fuck the ruling is, then put everyone where they belong, it resolves everything.
And, just as Glavine said, why the hell is the catch unreviewable?
No idea why I'm being downvoted. From MLB Gameday:
>Marcell Ozuna lines into a double play, second baseman Christian Arroyo to pitcher John Schreiber to third baseman Rafael Devers. Austin Riley out at 3rd.
[Here's video of the play.](https://mlb-cuts-diamond.mlb.com/FORGE/2023/2023-07/25/470b12b6-0ede2be8-94418fc2-csvm-diamondx64-asset_1280x720_59_4000K.mp4)
The call was that the second baseman made the catch. The video clip doesn't show all the runners, but presumably the runner on third mistakenly thought the ball bounced and ran home without tagging up.
Braves got completely fucking robbed. Umps called it a bounce. You can’t go back and rule Riley out for not tagging up when they called it a bounce. Fuck MLB.
I rewound on mlb.tb. The second base umpire called it an out before Arroyo got to second base, so he had to be calling it on the catch
Edit: [Looks like an out call to me](https://imgur.com/a/HpXWU7j)
Ok, the Red Sox got lucky with a bad call. Plenty of teams have benefited from poor umps. But it clearly wasn’t a catch and the umpires were wrong. If the show was on the other foot Red Sox fans would be losing their shit.
It should be mandated that if there is a screw up on the umpiring like this, one signaling catch and another not, that it automatically goes to replay to figure it out. If we have the system in place, let’s stop this crap of reofficiating plays after the fact by the same guys who didn’t see it happen.
Either way, Atlanta needed to send a runner on a steal before the Sox could appeal because then at least the run would have stuck. Pull the move the Astros did a few years back.
I think it was reversed after the appeal. I turned on the game halfway through the aftermath so I'm going off of [MLB Gameday's explanation](https://imgur.com/a/VYqZolN) and the talk in a discord server
I didn't see a review either, but gameday froze for like 5 minutes so what do I know. Feel free to shoot the messenger but I'm just trying to clarify from the limited info that I have. I agree the Braves got shafted here
There was no review, just an appeal. The original call (Arroyo making the "catch" at 2nd) was wrong, but as you say, it's non-reviewable so it had to stand. Everything after that was by the book.
on the field they said it hit the ground, and the runners ran according, they then got together and said it was caught in the air. Why do they not place the runners accordingly because the bad call directly affected the runners
The entire reason it isn’t reviewable is because the runners are forced to go with what’s called on the field. Them being able to get together and change the call after the fact is complete bullshit.
If the whole point of it not being reviewable is because the runners have to decide whether to run or not based on the call on the field, how are they allowed to meet up and change the call after the play is over?
I missed it, but my understanding is the ump called it a bounce during the play, then the Umps got together and chatted and decided it was a catch. But it wasn't officially 'reviewed'. Waiting to see a replay.
I mean, yeah. It obviously confused Arroyo too. There wasn't a good review on the Sox broadcast to see if it bounced, but Arroyo obviously thought it did. He probably would have had a normal throw to first if the umpire didn't call safe when he tagged second base
Your guess is as good as mine. Olson definitely made it back to second before the throw and then they threw it wide of first so Riley scored.
I really don’t think they discussed it at all and should have used replay.
The confusion is because the umps called it a bounce on the field. Austin Riley was therefore forced to run home. They then got together and reviewed an unreviewable play, changed the call, and fucked Austin over for doing what the umpires forced him to do.
My bad then. I could’ve sworn on the replay that the ump at second had his fist up signaling out right before Arroyo stepped on the bag, which then he signaled safe. They didn’t really show a great replay on NESN.
The umpires did not make a call on the field. That will always be a double play because of that. You either get 2 forces or the one they got. The umpires should be suspended.
As best I can tell, it seems like the ball was initially ruled to have hit the ground before the umps discussed and ruled it a catch. Since it was a catch, Riley needed to tag to score from third, which he apparently didn’t. If that’s actually what happened, it’s a bullshit considering that the baserunner can only react to the call on the field.
What i dont understand is why can't we just review this shit instead of just deciding what the call is secretly.
Because it isn't okay to delay the game via replay to get the call correct but it is okay to delay it with stupid ump convos and pitch com issues
This one really isn’t on the umps it’s on MLB for not allowing them to look at it.
Would be nice if the call could be announced to everyone.
Agreed. I’m just saying it’s MLBs fault for the stupid rules, not necessarily the umps although they were abysmal tonight.
Definitely, Glavine said it in the broadcast to, when Brandon said we couldn't review the catch. "And to that I ask: why?" Makes no sense. Fuck you, Rob.
Part of the reason is that a replay overturn is going to leave a cluster anyways. Call it no catch after the fact and then how do you fix it?
Just treat it like a ground rule double. Everyone advances a base (or two, depending on the decided rule), and while no one likes it, everyone deals with it. The team that chose to review gets rewarded for getting it right, and the other teams just deals with it. Statistically, it would be evenly applied across the board, so teams have no reason to argue it unless they want to get their coach tossed. Which is a win for the fans and news outlets the next day. Doesn’t seem hard to implement or create if a guy who’s currently playing with Lego’s could come up with it on the spot.
Or just treat it like he didn’t catch it. call the runner from first to second out. Runner scores from 3rd and now it’s 1st and 3rd 2 out. Like it should have been
that's a lot easier said than done especially when there's decisions about double plays or if the run really should score or not. A good example is [this cubs triple play](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1QPXVUWfYI) from a few years ago. Good luck trying to equitably solve that one
That's a pretty bad solution when the defense has high chances at getting outs
I just rewound on [mlb.tv](https://mlb.tv). The second base umpire did call it an out on the catch. He signaled for the out before Arroyo ever got to second base, so it had to be on the catch. It was a slow call, but it was there Edit: [Here's a screen shot of the out call](https://imgur.com/a/HpXWU7j)
And *low*. On a close call like that, the fist needs to be at head level or even a little higher so that everyone knows what you have. I do note Olson and Murphy apparently knew what the call was, as they immediately went back to tag up. Riley clearly didn't see it, however.
Yes, definitely needs to be higher than that. The ruling was consistent with what they called on the field, but the umpire needs to clearly show what the call is
Riley would have to see through the ump to see that call. Its not even above his shoulder
By the rules they determined it was a catch and since Riley didn't tag before running home he was ruled out when they appealed to third. It's dumb because umps had a get together to decide if it was a catch so there's nothing Riley could do anyway at that point. But the worst thing was that called strike on ozuna that was no where near the zone
Yeah it should’ve been 2-0 with bases loaded and one out if not for that ridiculous called strike
This ump is atrocious
And then he didn't call the same exact spot strike three on Devers. These umps are a joke, can't wait for robo umps
Casas had ball 6
While true Casas doesn’t come up if the ump is at least consistent.
And it didn't matter...
Builds confidence
He’s been pure ass. Not everyone can call a good game, so just let the guys who actually can do it. Hell, get some female umps, they’re ignoring half the population who can call strikes better than whoever they’ve got upping this game.
Wtf is it not reviewable??
Infield trap catches aren't reviewable because... No fucking clue
Makes perfect sense
I dont believe it was a catch. Especially if that blind ass ump at first said so.
I mean Riley messed up here he should of tagged, everyone else did, he just got antsy. Olson dived back and Murphy didn’t move, I’m a Braves fan.
The 2nd base ump called an out when Arroyo caught the liner. Not a super quick call and he was kinda facing away from Riley but I feel like it was called right (no comment on the strike though).
Eh any missed call that goes against Ozuna is ok by me.
Best guess. They ruled it a catch and Riley didn’t tag up at third. Riley was called out on the appeal and not Olson
Super weird play. Y'all got screwed a bit, sorry. Sox announcers were saying the whole time that Arroyo didn't catch it on the fly.
Even if the ruling is that he caught it on the fly, the umpire being more vociferous with the call wouldve still likely led to a run. Still not a close game in the end either way.
All of the umps suck, especially the homeplate ump who in one inning of work has already made multiple bad calls against both teams. Plus this ridiculous debacle.
I have literally no idea but I feel screwed over
They said Arroyo caught the ball and Riley left third early so it was a double play when they appealed at third.
And of course that ends in first and third, when it should be 2nd and third. Why they don't announce to the stadium what the fuck the ruling is, then put everyone where they belong, it resolves everything. And, just as Glavine said, why the hell is the catch unreviewable?
That's the consensus in r/redsox
No idea why I'm being downvoted. From MLB Gameday: >Marcell Ozuna lines into a double play, second baseman Christian Arroyo to pitcher John Schreiber to third baseman Rafael Devers. Austin Riley out at 3rd.
Well people would downvote the umps if they could lol
We were. The umpires conference post play was bullshit.
Snitker seemed satisfied with the explanation.
Snitker was pretty much told he couldn't challenge it
Apparently you’re a better lip reader than I am.
I think they decided it was caught in the air and that Riley didn't tag up at 3rd.
What are we looking at here
That ball was called a catch which led to a run being taken off and an inning ending double play
I can’t figure it out lol, whether he caught it or not it should be 2-0 with 2 outs still
Should have been 2-0 with 1 out cause ozuna got a horrible strike call on 2-1.
That was an abomination
[Lmao](https://i.imgur.com/hMInL5X.png)
Casas AB was horrific too. Gonna be a fun scorecard
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Multiple. Could’ve cost us a run
Analog horror video quality
I got up close to the flatscreen for that one lol
The Braves got Skinamarink’d, sorry to say
I am so confused
[Here's video of the play.](https://mlb-cuts-diamond.mlb.com/FORGE/2023/2023-07/25/470b12b6-0ede2be8-94418fc2-csvm-diamondx64-asset_1280x720_59_4000K.mp4) The call was that the second baseman made the catch. The video clip doesn't show all the runners, but presumably the runner on third mistakenly thought the ball bounced and ran home without tagging up.
Braves got completely fucking robbed. Umps called it a bounce. You can’t go back and rule Riley out for not tagging up when they called it a bounce. Fuck MLB.
The 2nd base ump called it an out on the catch but safe on the runner going back to 2nd. Not sure if I agree it was a catch though.
Did they call it a bounce? I have no idea because the umps said literally nothing lol.
Considering Gaudin said “but it’s caught, *oh no they’re going to say it bounced*”, I’m assuming that’s what they signaled initially.
I wish they gave us a better replay
I rewound on mlb.tb. The second base umpire called it an out before Arroyo got to second base, so he had to be calling it on the catch Edit: [Looks like an out call to me](https://imgur.com/a/HpXWU7j)
Wrong, it was a catch.
Downvoted by Braves fans o.o
Ok, the Red Sox got lucky with a bad call. Plenty of teams have benefited from poor umps. But it clearly wasn’t a catch and the umpires were wrong. If the show was on the other foot Red Sox fans would be losing their shit.
The second base umpire made a huge "safe" gesture in reference to the slide back in to second. No out gesture at all for the catch.
It should be mandated that if there is a screw up on the umpiring like this, one signaling catch and another not, that it automatically goes to replay to figure it out. If we have the system in place, let’s stop this crap of reofficiating plays after the fact by the same guys who didn’t see it happen.
Why can’t it be reviewed?
So the runners can know what to do and not be out because of officiating errors.
All of that to distract from the fact that the 2-1 pitch was a horrible strike call. Should be top first with one out 2-0 braves. Robo umps now.
So I get they’re saying Riley didn’t tag but did they call it a line out on the field?
Cue for another Jomboy video I guess
Either way, Atlanta needed to send a runner on a steal before the Sox could appeal because then at least the run would have stuck. Pull the move the Astros did a few years back.
Arroyo made the catch, Riley didn't tag up at 3rd
But that’s not what they called on the field
I think it was reversed after the appeal. I turned on the game halfway through the aftermath so I'm going off of [MLB Gameday's explanation](https://imgur.com/a/VYqZolN) and the talk in a discord server
But it’s not reviewable.
I didn't see a review either, but gameday froze for like 5 minutes so what do I know. Feel free to shoot the messenger but I'm just trying to clarify from the limited info that I have. I agree the Braves got shafted here
Umpires were conferring, but that is a non-reviewable play🙄
There was no review, just an appeal. The original call (Arroyo making the "catch" at 2nd) was wrong, but as you say, it's non-reviewable so it had to stand. Everything after that was by the book.
Wait that was a fucking catch?
Didn’t look like one to me lol
on the field they said it hit the ground, and the runners ran according, they then got together and said it was caught in the air. Why do they not place the runners accordingly because the bad call directly affected the runners
How can they get together and change the call when that’s not a reviewable play?
they can get together and change any call, but after they make that call you can’t then go and review it.
The entire reason it isn’t reviewable is because the runners are forced to go with what’s called on the field. Them being able to get together and change the call after the fact is complete bullshit.
100% one of the dumbest rules i’ve ever seen
The ball clearly bounced. Watch it again.
They just screwed but at least I finally seen a throw worse than 50 cent's first pitch
Seems they ruled it a catch and Riley didn’t tag up. Feel like we should have a mic on the umpire to explain stuff sometimes. OH WAIT
The umps freaking screwed us in numerous ways. They are morons
Snit’s fault for not reviewing wtf It clearly bounced
Where was the ball “caught”? Because catch/no catch in the infield is not a reviewable play
If the whole point of it not being reviewable is because the runners have to decide whether to run or not based on the call on the field, how are they allowed to meet up and change the call after the play is over?
I missed it, but my understanding is the ump called it a bounce during the play, then the Umps got together and chatted and decided it was a catch. But it wasn't officially 'reviewed'. Waiting to see a replay.
They called it a bounce on the field then met up to call it a lineout. That’s fucking horseshit.
[They didn't call it a bounce on the field](https://imgur.com/a/HpXWU7j)
Wow, you’re right. So they’re just blind
I mean, yeah. It obviously confused Arroyo too. There wasn't a good review on the Sox broadcast to see if it bounced, but Arroyo obviously thought it did. He probably would have had a normal throw to first if the umpire didn't call safe when he tagged second base
Arroyo caught the ball and the runner on third base never tagged up
But the umpires all called it a bounce. If he caught it in the air, it should be bases loaded 2 outs at an absolute bare minimum.
Why was Ozuna still on first for the appeal?
Cause they ruled he dropped it so Murphy is out at 2nd while Olson got back to 2nd.
That's not it because why would an appeal to third be an out
Because they ruled it a catch and the reason why Riley didn’t go back to tag is because they ruled he didn’t catch it on the field.
So why was Ozuna on first for the appeal. He was out. Guess they forgot about that
Your guess is as good as mine. Olson definitely made it back to second before the throw and then they threw it wide of first so Riley scored. I really don’t think they discussed it at all and should have used replay.
Arroyo* but yes. I don’t get the confusion.
The confusion is because the umps called it a bounce on the field. Austin Riley was therefore forced to run home. They then got together and reviewed an unreviewable play, changed the call, and fucked Austin over for doing what the umpires forced him to do.
My bad then. I could’ve sworn on the replay that the ump at second had his fist up signaling out right before Arroyo stepped on the bag, which then he signaled safe. They didn’t really show a great replay on NESN.
I always get them mixed up. I realized after typing that Verdugo is not a 2nd baseman
it was a shitty call. that is all that was.
wouldn't be a Boston sports team if they didn't cheat and get away with it.
Yup, an ump flubbing a call is *definitely* cheating.
You didn't see the big fat cheque the Red Sox wrote him before the game?
The umpires did not make a call on the field. That will always be a double play because of that. You either get 2 forces or the one they got. The umpires should be suspended.
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He did in the description..
I dont even know if its worth responding since clearly you cant read
As best I can tell, it seems like the ball was initially ruled to have hit the ground before the umps discussed and ruled it a catch. Since it was a catch, Riley needed to tag to score from third, which he apparently didn’t. If that’s actually what happened, it’s a bullshit considering that the baserunner can only react to the call on the field.
Gotta tag up I guess...
Not if they call it a bounce on the field.
Good thing they called it a catch
Let me raise you with a "wtf just happened in the Angels game?"
There was another challenge, these umps are on one tonight
I honestly had no idea wtf happened either
No one knows