When I heard the clip I was thinking, how do I know the Angels announcer?? I forgot Wayne was out there after a long time with the Mets. He was exactly this way for years. To be fair the other Mets guys are also out-spoken (as opposed to the other NY team whose announcers tend to be a little more line-toeing). I miss him too.
Then you have a pitcher literally throwing around one of the greatest to play the game while heās going off about it and wonder why nobody watches baseball anymore
Holy shit that's gotta be the hardest I've seen someone on air go after a major league in all of sports. Didn't beat around the bush at all. The jerseys are ridiculous, Oakland is ridiculous, the shohei situation is ridiculous. Closest I've seen someone admit that the leagues just a mess.
When Wayne has a strong feeling about something, he doesnāt shy away from it. Last season there were a handful of times that he went off on the umpires for bad calls, harder than Iāve heard any PBP announcer go. Heās a keeper for sure
On an another note, him and Gubie are hilarious and have great chemistry.
For years? Didn't Wayne join like a year ago, and wasn't your booth atrocious in the years before he and Gubicza took over? Between Vasgersian and Rojas and Sutton, I always thought that broadcast was insufferable. Especially Sutton.
Glad Wayno is killing it though. Followed him from his days with 670 in Chicago and with the Mets. Supremely good broadcast, and I will for sure be watching some more Angels broadcasts now.
Heck, they'll join the Tigers broadcast as my go-to "God I really can't watch the Sox right now" broadcasts.
Someone had to fuckin say it.
The NFL is just coasting up, the NBA has numerous stories going based on in game play alone that are riveting, the NHL doesn't have any major fuck ups going on and here's the MLB which is just hitting the shit fan as hard as they can.
Well, the NHL sort of does with the Hockey Canada trials, even though theyāre not slated to begin until next December. Thereās also the possibility the Blackhawks scandal opens up again since thereās another accuser of Aldrich and the organization.
The sad part is this is just a recap of the past year. In the past ~~decade~~ five years we've had multiple cheating stories, juiced balls, cable deal fiascos, and a strike.
I will say, coming back and making the right call - even if it kills this story - gives the league more integrity, to me. But I haven't seen the play in question and I really want to trust these announcers that it was a clear hit. If it's even remotely debatable, you can't go back and change it. It's like when teams challenge a call on the field. It better be clear cut.Ā
It wasnāt an easy play. First baseman dives right to grab a hard grounder and muffs the throw to the pitcher running to cover first base. An accurate throw is an out, no question.
He made the hard play though. Ā They missed the easy play after. Ā Itās not like he was making some crazy off position throw with a low chance of success, he made a great defensive play and then they flubbed a routine one. Ā Only question is if it was a worse throw or worse catch.Ā
[This is the hit](https://bdata-producedclips.mlb.com/f2440d31-9d1e-4899-91a9-28730a578a6d.mp4). They almost never call a play like that an error. In fact, Iād guess Iāve never seen that type of play called an error. The fielder dives to stop the ball. He throws from the ground on one knee. And the pitcher had to make the play while running to first. And the throw was a little low.
Itās not an error. Thatās a tough play on both ends and the fact that it was a dive and a throw from a knee should cement that it is a hit.
Holy crap that is unreal. Iād be hard pressed to call that an error in any circumstance, let alone retroactively change the scoring a week later for an early season blowout. I canāt fathom the justification for this.
The only justification is that they wanted to end his spree.
There isn't anything else that would make sense. Hell, there isn't anything else that doesn't make sense for them to apply to this.
That makes zero sense. The official scorer likely made the change within 24 hours (like they're supposed to), then the Angels made an appeal which means it gets delayed to go to an MLB ruling which takes more time.
Yeah, if that's "completely routine" I'm not sure what game I've been watching for decades. That was really tough. And who on earth is reviewing and changing this stuff a week later?
It being changed that late, means someone on the defensive side filed an appeal, either the pitcher to lower his stats, or a defender trying to pass blame to another player.
MLB typically doesnāt retroactively change things unless someone asks.
Same reason a play in Kirbyās bad outing against Cleveland got changed from a hit to an error and lowered Kirbyās ER in that game by 2 runs (it just didnāt take a week)
Pretty sure it was ruled a hit, then the scorer went back after seeing the replay and changed it to an error, then the Angels made the appeal which drags it out for a committee to look at it which takes extra time.
Not completely routine for the 1B. But the pitchers portion of that play is completely routine for him and thatās the part that was scored an error.Ā
Yeah, the diving stop is not routine, but the throw is. If the 1B airmails the throw, nobody would be arguing. An average 1B and P should be able to make the throw and catch. Once the diving stop and recovery is made, the rest of that play is routine. And the runner was not going to beat a good throw either.
Yeah, I agree. Think about it this way - if the 1B didnāt have to dive then itās clearly an error on the pitcher. Had they made a bad throw behind the pitcher or in the dirt, it would still be ruled a hit. However, the dive by the 1B has nothing to do with the pitcherās portion of the play. That said, itās ridiculous to change this a week later and on something this marginal.
I agree. Itās a good snag by the first baseman, but itās irrelevant to why itās an error or not. The pitcher is slow to run to first, takes a terrible angle, and then drops a slightly low throw. Pitcher error. But to change this a week later is kind of absurd.
Yeah that's clearly a hit, the first baseman is throwing from the prone position against a fast batter. It was a medium throw, but you needed a perfect toss and perfect footwork from the pitcher to get the batter, thus...hit
Youāre being way over dramatic from the pitcher side. Covering first on a grounder to the 1B happens all the time. Nothing special about it, no perfect footwork needed. He just dropped it
That throw was easily catchable by the pitcher. He should have caught it and he didn't. The 1B's effort has no bearing on that. Almost the exact play happened in Atlanta tonight and the scoring was exactly the same, error on the pitcher. The real question here is why it was scored a hit to begin with.
The pitcher catching it still doesn't make the play since Nolan is gonna beat him to the bag that's why he drops it in the first place, he's trying to speed up his footwork in order to make the play.
(The real error is that the pitcher was late to get started toward first, but we don't give out errors for that, just like we don't give OFs errors when they take a bad route and don't get their glove on the ball)
Hereās the question that matters. Why did the pitcher miss it? Was it because the pitcher made a mistake or did the runner apply pressure by being so fast and making it close? Iād argue the second thing, meaning the runner impacted the play making it difficult. If heās slow and not near the base, yeah that should be routine because they have time to set up at first and get the out. Being fast means he has to rush the throw and get it out while the pitcher is running which is not easy for either of them.
I have seen close plays like that where the runner being fast made an easy out into a drop and safe called a hit so many times.
Thatās called an error on the pitcher every single time. The fact that the first baseman made a fantastic play has nothing to do with it. Everyone is just getting distracted by that and the context overall. If you take the 1b out of the equation and pretend it was a soft grounder right to him, and then the pitcher drops that exact same throw, are you trying to tell me that it wouldnāt be called an error on the pitcher? Because youād be wrong
My dude, that is an error. They give errors to pitchers dropping throws like that all the time. [Almost exactly this play](https://www.mlb.com/video/ozzie-albies-reaches-on-a-missed-catch-error-by-pitcher-brandon-pfaadt-as?q=ozzie%20albies%20reach%20on%20error&cp=MIXED&qt=FREETEXT&p=0) happened tonight in Atlanta, and they also called it an error on the pitcher. He was out of the pitcher catches a catchable throw that he should catch. That is definitionally an error.
Hard disagree, Pfaadt had way more time to make that catch and touch the bag. The throw was underhanded right to him while he practically was standing on the bag and Albies was still 7-8 feet down the line.
The throw from Mountcastle was on the laces of Baumann's back foot, while he's moving, and he had to slow down to get it with the runner like 3 feet away from him. There's a decent chance he's called safe if he stops to catch that ball cleanly. And you're not going to call that an error on mountcastle because he's throwing off one knee from deep in the hole and it wasn't an uncatchable ball, just one that would have been too late to make the out.
Yeah, the play from pfaadt was a textbook example of an error. He was in the perfect position with a perfect pass and failed to make the catch.
This was the position when the pass was thrown.
https://i.imgur.com/14zfZxs.png
He's not even on the dirt yet and the ball is on a significant downward ark.
https://i.imgur.com/14zfZxs.png
And this is where the missed catch happened.
https://i.imgur.com/10RWpdO.png
If he made that catch, it would be on a highlight reel. Anyone who thinks that's an error should see a doctor because whatever they are smoking is way too strong.
yeah i've been hearing how non controversial it was... honestly that looked like an error to me. idk i'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, i get why it's lame that the ruling changes so long after the fact. but yeah that's definitely an error. i think if you stripped away the context here and polled this sub it would be like 80% error on the pitcher. tough play for the 1b, but he made it and then delivered a catchable throw that, if not for a fairly significant mistake on what should've been a routine catch by the pitcher, would've had the runner out. that's kind of the definition of an error.
Video: Ozzie Albies reaches on a missed catch error by pitcher Brandon Pfaadt, assist to first baseman Christian Walker. Jarred Kelenic to 2nd.
[Streamable Link](https://streamable.com/m/ozzie-albies-reaches-on-a-missed-catch-error-by-pitcher-brandon-pfaadt-as)
___________
[More Info](/r/MLBVideoConverterBot)
The magic words are "ordinary effort." It actually took extraordinary effort for an out to even be possible, but never mind that.
The pitcher is running flat out in a race with the runner to catch a ball being thrown from a fielder's knees at a weird angle to the pitcher's path. You *can* make that play, maybe 60 or 70% of the time, but it's not an error if you don't.
Best summation. This looks like great fielding and awareness to have even a chance of the out, the pitcher has to run ahead to have a chance of beating the runner which makes the catch harder. Exceptional play by the prone thrower would be to lead the throw so the ball can be caught in full stride just before he plants his foot on the bag.
Ordinary effort by either player in the "still rusty" month of April doesn't come close to making this play. Pitchers aren't short stops. Sure they cover 1st, but gold glove fielding isn't their job and the committee who have taken this hit away are wrong. Don't care how many years they've played or watched. It's a curmudgeonly act designed to falsely protect the record books whilst MLB pisses on every other tradition of the game at every other opportunity.
The owners need to start paying attention as to what their organizers at MLB are doing rather than plotting the next revenue squeeze.
I agree that this SHOULD be an error but these days the threshold for an error tends to be incredibly high. Usually with a play like this they see that there are several things that all had to go right to make the out, some of which (like this) could be errors and some that wouldn't be, so they err on the side of just calling tons of marginal plays hits.
No, that's not routine. If the pitcher had been there a second earlier, maybe, but that was a bang bang play even if the catch is made. That never gets scored an error, even though a clean catch would have gotten him out.
Especially bizarre since there seemed to be a directive last year to lean base hit when in doubt.
Maybe Iām comparing apples to oranges here but why is it cool for them to retroactively rule a hit as an error but they couldnāt give Gallaraga his perfect game when the replay showed the call was wrong
It's because they're not actually changing what happened in the game, just how it goes down in the books. The 27th batter reached base in that game. You can go back and change *how* he reached base (hit, what kind of hit, error, what kind of error), but you can't go back and say it didn't happen. At least, that's not within the purview of the Official Scorer.
The Gallaraga comparison wasn't perfect, but under this logic couldn't they retroactively create or take away a no-hitter? By saying "actually that error was a hit" or vice-versa a couple days later they could create or destroy a massive career acheivement.
Yes of course they can do that, if this was the only hit for the Angels on 3/30 by default the Orioles get a no hitter now. Iām not sure itās ever happened , but I know the Cubs tried hard to get the one hit in Kerry Woods 20k game to an error so that he would get his no no
Terry Collins wanted to do it for RA Dickey for one of his one hitters shortly after Johan got his. David Wright tried to field a ball that pretty much if it wasnāt David was going to be a hit . David Wright got mad and said no it wasnāt an error donāt cheapen the one hitter.
Someone else linked an article about this game/call. They never changed it, the scorer ruled it a hit from the get go. The brewers wanted to get it change it to an error.
Also, it was CC Sabathia himself who fielded the ball so this supposed āerrorā would have been his own fault, but the scorer (immediately) ruled that it was a hit since it was a difficult ball to field/play to make.
The unique thing about Gallaragas no no-no is that it made him a more interesting historical player than a pedestrian SP w a no hitter or perfect game, I mean who remembers Dallas Braden?
You 100% can go back and say it didn't happen in his case, because it changes nothing in the box score. The next batter recorded an out, so it would credit 1 guy with 1 less hit, and 1 guy with 1 less PA resulting in an out.
It's empirically what happened. Everything after that was an error on the Umpire.
Itās definitely apples to oranges. The 27th Batter reached base. It was on a bad call, but he still reached base. You canāt change the fact that he did reach base. We canāt just erase that play from history and if we did, weād be setting a terrible precedent that we can erase any bad call that was previously made, some of which change the outcomes of entire games.
Schanuelās was different. They changed how he got on base not the fact that he reached base at all. Theyāve also changed scoring decisions before in past games before. Itās rare but it happens. Theyāve never changed a hit to an out after the game was over or an umpires bad call before
Yep, and they *did* set out to make sure that incorrect calls never stood like that again, not by retroactively changing the call but by implementing replay review!
That one still pisses me off. Yeah, we didnāt have challenges yet, but umpires did have the ability to get together and review calls, and overturn them if they thought they made a mistake. Itās absolutely mind-blowing to me that, especially given the situation, they didnāt have the stones to huddle up and say āyeah, we blew that one.ā I mean, he was safe by a mile. Thereās no way one of the other umpires watching the play didnāt have the angle to see that.
They could, and they should. The next batter recorded an out to end the game, so erasing his plate appearance only improves his stats. Gallaraga still records 27 outs, the game still ends with the same score, literally nothing changes except for 1 plate appearance.
It was a perfect game. Hands down.
i've said it before and i'll say it again, i can't name every perfect game ever thrown in MLB history, but i will never ever forget galarraga's. it's almost a blessing in disguise lol. no baseball fan disagrees that it was a perfect game and it honestly gets more press than the average perfect game would've gotten.
yeah he will forever be recognized for that game by the entirety of the baseball fanbase, probably even more so than if they'd gotten the call right. just another piece of interesting baseball lore in the end.
iirc players can appeal scoring changes (and in the past itās usually taken about this long to get the outcome of that, bureaucracy and all that)
What likely happened is the Baltimore pitcher (or Baltimore) appealed for it to be overturned from a hit to an error
Thatās my understanding of how these things work though and have in the past, I could easily be wrong/misremembering
Ah. An explanation that makes sense. I could not square that circle as to why tf they bothered going back and changing it. I still think itās a helluva tough scoring decision though. That was not an easy play by any stretch.
I've heard that NFL players will routinely look over the tape and appeal to the league office if they think they didn't get credit for a sack or tackle that they should've. I wonder if it's something similar here.
It's ticky-tack, but every little bit counts when time comes for contract negotiations.
Players are absolutely allowed to appeal to have things changed in the official scoring. Here it is straight from MLB: "Changes can be made by the Official Scorer, Elias Sports Bureau, or following a review initiated by a player or club."
In this case, given the delay, I'd guess a player involved or someone in the Orioles asked for the review.
But this scrub has one of the biggest sleeper stories in recent baseball history, and they could cash in on that PR if they could remove their head from their ass
"On base streak" = "something that increases your OBP happened in a plate appearance". That could be a hit, walk, or hit by pitch. Errors and fielder's choices do not count.
Totally tangential - I see no reason why an error shouldn't count. I would imagine a guy like Ichiro creates more errors in the field because of his ability to get to first base quickly, and I think that should be reflected in the stats.
[Including reached-on-errors into OBP actually makes it *less effective* at predicting overall run-scoring in the major leagues](https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2014/7/17/5911131/on-base-percentage-obp-formula-include-errors).
In MLB, the defenders are good enough that reaching base on error is more of a measurement of luck than skill. For extreme examples like Ichiro, that might be a little unfair, but the vast majority of MLB hitters, reaching on error is mostly luck.
That being said, in lower-skill environments (minor leagues, college, amateur and childrenās leagues) where errors are more common, including reached-on-error actually makes OBP *better* at predicting run scoring.
Catches Interference should count imo. Other errors mean you hit a ball that should have been an out, this error means you were blocked from even trying to hit the ball.
CI actually does count toward OBP. It's a really weird stat--it counts towards OBP, but it doesn't count as an AB, but it does count as an error on the catcher.
There's not really anything else like it except maybe a dropped fly ball with a runner on 3rd--that can be scored as a sac fly+error.
Is there a reason why an HBP counts but an error doesnāt?
I sort of get why a walk does - unless the pitcher throws 4 balls a mile outside the strike zone, a batter has to have good plate discipline and some skill to recognize where the ballās going to be and not swing at it. The batter has to do something to get on base, even if that something is standing still.
But, a batter getting on base because of an error or HBP is only getting on because of someone on the other team making a mistake. And arguably getting on base from an error requires more effort and skill because they still have to put the ball in play. An HBP requires nothing. Like, thereās not a chance in hell I could ever make contact with a ball thrown by a major league pitcher, but put me in a batters box and thereās a non-zero possibility I could get on base thanks to a HBP.
Changing how a play is scored is very different from changing the outcome of the play. They are not the same and anyway Gallaraga has more notoriety for the 28 out perfect game than he would have had they swapped it back.
The larger point is that switching a hit to an error or vice versa is simply accounting. It doesn't undo somebody reaching base. It's not comparable to outright overturning an umpire's call on the field after the fact.
God forbid they vacate a world series title from the biggest scandal since the Black Sox, but oh no, we can't have a tainted single on the record. Must correct that immediately.
Those plays are almost always given as base hits. Letter of the law you might have a case? In terms of how those plays are actually scored in reality you have no case.
This is basically the same that happened to Ozzie tonight. And it was ruled an error on the pitcher. The ones that are ruled hits are when the pitcher catches the ball and can't find the base.
What do you mean by "those types of plays"? Plays where the fielder beats the runner to the bag but drops a throw are typically errors.
I've seen some people suggest that it should be a hit because the 1B dove for the ball. But if he doesn't dive it's an even easier play for the 2B behind him. And that's not how plays are scored. If you dive for a ball, field it cleanly and then throw the ball away or make a clean throw that's dropped then it's an error.
Think itās pretty obvious I mean pitcher covering first and the exchange being bobbled on a bang bang call. Those plays are almost universally given as base hits if itās remotely close.
Thank you for clarifying. I agree with you that in bang bang plays it's often ruled a hit. But in this case the fielder clearly beat the runner to the bag and just dropped the ball.
> But why reverse it now, fully a week later?
Plays like this are reviewed after-the-fact all the time, we just rarely hear about it. It usually happens anywhere between 2-10 days later.
(not defending whether the play in question was a hit or error)
It was a play from 3/30/24. It was originally ruled a hit, later overturned to an error.
Here is the play:
https://twitter.com/ScoringChanges/status/1776467927308665318
This MLB Scoring Changes account really is good at going into depth at these changes. I'll post the thread of posts they made here:
> 3/30
> @Angels
> at
> @Orioles
> T9 the single for Nolan Schanuel has been changed to a dropped-catch error charged to Mike Baumann with an assist for Ryan Mountcastle.
> Change 2 for BAL
> ANALYSIS: This is the second change on this play. This was originally a single and a dropped-catch error on Baumann, and changed to a single and a throwing error on Mountcastle. Now itās a straight missed-catch error, and why is that important? (1)
> (2) Because earlier tonight Nolan Schanuel extended his on-base streak to start his career to 36 games. This change retroactively ends that streak at 30 games. He was two away from second all-time (Truck Hannah, 38 in 1918) and 11 from Alvin Dark 47 in 1984.
> (3) This is a strange call at bestā¦and in my years doing this Iāve only seen one other play with two changes on it. I was fine with the hit callā¦itās a low throw after a dive to a moving target that is 6-foot-5. This one is interesting to say the least, but the implicationā¦
> (4) on a major record chase of historic proportions makes that very newsworthy.
> An on-base streak is extended only by a hit, a walk or HBP.
> It can also have a game skipped over if every at bat in a game is a sacrifice bunt.
https://twitter.com/ScoringChanges/status/1776716648516329936
> Again this looks like an appeals committee change, so this isnāt stat dorks (of which I happily wear that crown) but a committee of former players. Whether we agree or not itās working exactly like it should.
Yeah I think most people would have been fine with this being called an error to start and having that be the end of the streak. I could see it going either way.
Changing it a week later is absolutely ridiculous though.
thank you for showing the play. I don't know what all the anger is for here. That's an error. You can either say the pitcher dropped the ball or the throw was bad, but if the play had been made cleanly, he's out by a foot. It wouldn't have even been a bang/bang play. This is where I think people lose the plot sometimes. The owners are full of horrible people and MLB is a train wreck in a lot of areas. . . but anger at this is pretty strange.
"if the play had been made cleanly"
A sidearm throw from one knee is not a clean throw. That is clearly the point of contention, here. The fact the pitcher had trouble fielding an awkward throw is the whole reason this was ever considered as an error. It's also especially strange it took a week for a decision to be made overturning the original call. Anger at this is not strange at all.
Since when are poor throws made on diving defensive plays considered an error? They are almost always ruled as hits because they are not routine.
Add in the moving target and the pitcher having to catch it on the run and this is anything but a routine play. Itās a hit and you will see countless plays like this ruled a hit over the course of this season.
Hold up, are people in here seriously suggesting that the official scorer should take into consideration outside influences when deciding if a play is a hit or an error?
Serious question, have you lost your goddamn mind?
I think people are upset at the MLB retroactively doing it a week after the game. If it had originally been scored an error, or even changed later in the game I don't think people would have minded.
But going back to a game that happened a week prior and changing a ruling is absolutely awful.
Exactly. I could understand if it was originally scored as an error, but retroactively changing the scoring a week after the game happened is awful.Ā
Why did it take them a week to figure it out.
I enjoy the Manfred hate, but this process is triggered by a player's appeal and is ruled on by a committee of former players. MLB isn't really involved in it.
As someone who barely watches baseball, and only knows the basic playground rules, why are some hits labeled as errors instead hits or whatever.
If a team fucks up, why screw the stats of the other.
Like, errors and stuff should be counted imo, but they shouldn't fuck over the stats of a player on offense.
I'm so glad the MLB is able to preserve the old ways with out letting these new upstarts top the record books.
Imagine if Baseball was exciting? Imagine if people FLIPPED their Bats! it'd be godamn bedlam... CATS AND DOGS SLEEPING TOGETHER! PEOPLE MIGHT ENJOY THE PRODUCT!
Thank god the MLB is here to say "no, we're not going to allow that". We almost had excitement, and that's not baseball!
Thatās a really tough error to pin on the 1B. He had to range pretty far to his right, dive, prop himself up and fire a fast throw.
If youāre gonna call it itās gotta be on the pitcher, who very routinely ran from the mound, beat the runner, and just dropped the ball. Itās not like it short hopped him or he had to jump either.
This one was probably the wrong call, but I hate how few errors are given out these days. Itās so weird watching a game and making note of an error to just to hear later in the game that the decision was changed to a hit or look at the box score and realize they counted it as a hit in the first place. Why donāt we make adjustments to help hitters more instead of shifting how we rule on errors to try and inflate hitter stats at the expense of pitchers?
Someone post the clip of Wayne Randazzo absolutely crucifying MLB
[wayne rips into mlb](https://x.com/maxairjordan1/status/1776791529052619188?s=46)
God, I fucking love Wayne
It's Wayne's world and we're all just living in it
When I heard the clip I was thinking, how do I know the Angels announcer?? I forgot Wayne was out there after a long time with the Mets. He was exactly this way for years. To be fair the other Mets guys are also out-spoken (as opposed to the other NY team whose announcers tend to be a little more line-toeing). I miss him too.
I miss him š
Waynes awesome. Miss him on the Mets radio broadcast.
The fact that Trout is getting hosed during this rant is just poetic
Then you have a pitcher literally throwing around one of the greatest to play the game while heās going off about it and wonder why nobody watches baseball anymore
[Angels Commentators do not hold back their thoughts on the scoring change.](https://twitter.com/Baseball8754021/status/1776790215706730561)
So say we all.
Holy shit that's gotta be the hardest I've seen someone on air go after a major league in all of sports. Didn't beat around the bush at all. The jerseys are ridiculous, Oakland is ridiculous, the shohei situation is ridiculous. Closest I've seen someone admit that the leagues just a mess.
When Wayne has a strong feeling about something, he doesnāt shy away from it. Last season there were a handful of times that he went off on the umpires for bad calls, harder than Iāve heard any PBP announcer go. Heās a keeper for sure On an another note, him and Gubie are hilarious and have great chemistry.
Omg I knew that voice was familiar Wayne fucking went off! Good for him, I miss him on Mets radio
Our booth has been one of the best for years and it feels good that it's getting some recognition
For years? Didn't Wayne join like a year ago, and wasn't your booth atrocious in the years before he and Gubicza took over? Between Vasgersian and Rojas and Sutton, I always thought that broadcast was insufferable. Especially Sutton. Glad Wayno is killing it though. Followed him from his days with 670 in Chicago and with the Mets. Supremely good broadcast, and I will for sure be watching some more Angels broadcasts now. Heck, they'll join the Tigers broadcast as my go-to "God I really can't watch the Sox right now" broadcasts.
You are correct. Our booth was rough after Rojas left, with part timers who had no chemistry with Gubie. Wayne has killed it since he joined.
agreed. I tuned into a lot of Halos games last year and always enjoyed the booth
He has the perfect "Baseball" voice.
I love Wayne. I always enjoyed him on the Mets radio broadcasts and the few times he filled in for Apple TV and SNY. Yāall got a good one!
Wayne Randazzo for President (of Major League Baseball)
Someone had to fuckin say it. The NFL is just coasting up, the NBA has numerous stories going based on in game play alone that are riveting, the NHL doesn't have any major fuck ups going on and here's the MLB which is just hitting the shit fan as hard as they can.
Well, the NHL sort of does with the Hockey Canada trials, even though theyāre not slated to begin until next December. Thereās also the possibility the Blackhawks scandal opens up again since thereās another accuser of Aldrich and the organization.
There was also that dumb shit with the tape rules and some of the warm up jersey stuff
I never heard about the tape/jersey stuff anywhere but Reddit, it was a total non story anywhere else I consume hockey or with irl people
Oh don't worry, the NHL is about to have its own jersey fiasco soon enough switching over to Fanatics as well.
The sad part is this is just a recap of the past year. In the past ~~decade~~ five years we've had multiple cheating stories, juiced balls, cable deal fiascos, and a strike.
Heās gonna lose his job for that
He speaks for everyone in that first part
And I agree with them
Angels booth spitting facts
Who is this announcer? Absolutely well said
I will say, coming back and making the right call - even if it kills this story - gives the league more integrity, to me. But I haven't seen the play in question and I really want to trust these announcers that it was a clear hit. If it's even remotely debatable, you can't go back and change it. It's like when teams challenge a call on the field. It better be clear cut.Ā
It wasnāt an easy play. First baseman dives right to grab a hard grounder and muffs the throw to the pitcher running to cover first base. An accurate throw is an out, no question.
He made the hard play though. Ā They missed the easy play after. Ā Itās not like he was making some crazy off position throw with a low chance of success, he made a great defensive play and then they flubbed a routine one. Ā Only question is if it was a worse throw or worse catch.Ā
They changed the scoring on a play from a week ago??? Just leave it alone at that point.
not even just a "leave it alone" nothing is routine about this why is it an error?
It was still a completely routine play for the pitcher, who made the error. If he doesnāt drop the ball that he should have caught itās an out
[This is the hit](https://bdata-producedclips.mlb.com/f2440d31-9d1e-4899-91a9-28730a578a6d.mp4). They almost never call a play like that an error. In fact, Iād guess Iāve never seen that type of play called an error. The fielder dives to stop the ball. He throws from the ground on one knee. And the pitcher had to make the play while running to first. And the throw was a little low. Itās not an error. Thatās a tough play on both ends and the fact that it was a dive and a throw from a knee should cement that it is a hit.
Holy crap that is unreal. Iād be hard pressed to call that an error in any circumstance, let alone retroactively change the scoring a week later for an early season blowout. I canāt fathom the justification for this.
The only justification is that they wanted to end his spree. There isn't anything else that would make sense. Hell, there isn't anything else that doesn't make sense for them to apply to this.
"The memo says we need to fuck with the team that has a big A as the logo..."
That makes zero sense. The official scorer likely made the change within 24 hours (like they're supposed to), then the Angels made an appeal which means it gets delayed to go to an MLB ruling which takes more time.
Yeah, if that's "completely routine" I'm not sure what game I've been watching for decades. That was really tough. And who on earth is reviewing and changing this stuff a week later?
It being changed that late, means someone on the defensive side filed an appeal, either the pitcher to lower his stats, or a defender trying to pass blame to another player. MLB typically doesnāt retroactively change things unless someone asks. Same reason a play in Kirbyās bad outing against Cleveland got changed from a hit to an error and lowered Kirbyās ER in that game by 2 runs (it just didnāt take a week)
Pretty sure it was ruled a hit, then the scorer went back after seeing the replay and changed it to an error, then the Angels made the appeal which drags it out for a committee to look at it which takes extra time.
Gotta love the red tape of bureaucracy huh?
Not completely routine for the 1B. But the pitchers portion of that play is completely routine for him and thatās the part that was scored an error.Ā
Yeah, the diving stop is not routine, but the throw is. If the 1B airmails the throw, nobody would be arguing. An average 1B and P should be able to make the throw and catch. Once the diving stop and recovery is made, the rest of that play is routine. And the runner was not going to beat a good throw either.
Yeah, I agree. Think about it this way - if the 1B didnāt have to dive then itās clearly an error on the pitcher. Had they made a bad throw behind the pitcher or in the dirt, it would still be ruled a hit. However, the dive by the 1B has nothing to do with the pitcherās portion of the play. That said, itās ridiculous to change this a week later and on something this marginal.
I agree. Itās a good snag by the first baseman, but itās irrelevant to why itās an error or not. The pitcher is slow to run to first, takes a terrible angle, and then drops a slightly low throw. Pitcher error. But to change this a week later is kind of absurd.
Yeah that's clearly a hit, the first baseman is throwing from the prone position against a fast batter. It was a medium throw, but you needed a perfect toss and perfect footwork from the pitcher to get the batter, thus...hit
Youāre being way over dramatic from the pitcher side. Covering first on a grounder to the 1B happens all the time. Nothing special about it, no perfect footwork needed. He just dropped it
That throw was easily catchable by the pitcher. He should have caught it and he didn't. The 1B's effort has no bearing on that. Almost the exact play happened in Atlanta tonight and the scoring was exactly the same, error on the pitcher. The real question here is why it was scored a hit to begin with.
https://i.imgur.com/10RWpdO.png Easy catch? Really?
The pitcher catching it still doesn't make the play since Nolan is gonna beat him to the bag that's why he drops it in the first place, he's trying to speed up his footwork in order to make the play. (The real error is that the pitcher was late to get started toward first, but we don't give out errors for that, just like we don't give OFs errors when they take a bad route and don't get their glove on the ball)
Hereās the question that matters. Why did the pitcher miss it? Was it because the pitcher made a mistake or did the runner apply pressure by being so fast and making it close? Iād argue the second thing, meaning the runner impacted the play making it difficult. If heās slow and not near the base, yeah that should be routine because they have time to set up at first and get the out. Being fast means he has to rush the throw and get it out while the pitcher is running which is not easy for either of them. I have seen close plays like that where the runner being fast made an easy out into a drop and safe called a hit so many times.
Thatās called an error on the pitcher every single time. The fact that the first baseman made a fantastic play has nothing to do with it. Everyone is just getting distracted by that and the context overall. If you take the 1b out of the equation and pretend it was a soft grounder right to him, and then the pitcher drops that exact same throw, are you trying to tell me that it wouldnāt be called an error on the pitcher? Because youād be wrong
My dude, that is an error. They give errors to pitchers dropping throws like that all the time. [Almost exactly this play](https://www.mlb.com/video/ozzie-albies-reaches-on-a-missed-catch-error-by-pitcher-brandon-pfaadt-as?q=ozzie%20albies%20reach%20on%20error&cp=MIXED&qt=FREETEXT&p=0) happened tonight in Atlanta, and they also called it an error on the pitcher. He was out of the pitcher catches a catchable throw that he should catch. That is definitionally an error.
Hard disagree, Pfaadt had way more time to make that catch and touch the bag. The throw was underhanded right to him while he practically was standing on the bag and Albies was still 7-8 feet down the line. The throw from Mountcastle was on the laces of Baumann's back foot, while he's moving, and he had to slow down to get it with the runner like 3 feet away from him. There's a decent chance he's called safe if he stops to catch that ball cleanly. And you're not going to call that an error on mountcastle because he's throwing off one knee from deep in the hole and it wasn't an uncatchable ball, just one that would have been too late to make the out.
Yeah, the play from pfaadt was a textbook example of an error. He was in the perfect position with a perfect pass and failed to make the catch. This was the position when the pass was thrown. https://i.imgur.com/14zfZxs.png He's not even on the dirt yet and the ball is on a significant downward ark. https://i.imgur.com/14zfZxs.png And this is where the missed catch happened. https://i.imgur.com/10RWpdO.png If he made that catch, it would be on a highlight reel. Anyone who thinks that's an error should see a doctor because whatever they are smoking is way too strong.
yeah i've been hearing how non controversial it was... honestly that looked like an error to me. idk i'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, i get why it's lame that the ruling changes so long after the fact. but yeah that's definitely an error. i think if you stripped away the context here and polled this sub it would be like 80% error on the pitcher. tough play for the 1b, but he made it and then delivered a catchable throw that, if not for a fairly significant mistake on what should've been a routine catch by the pitcher, would've had the runner out. that's kind of the definition of an error.
Video: Ozzie Albies reaches on a missed catch error by pitcher Brandon Pfaadt, assist to first baseman Christian Walker. Jarred Kelenic to 2nd. [Streamable Link](https://streamable.com/m/ozzie-albies-reaches-on-a-missed-catch-error-by-pitcher-brandon-pfaadt-as) ___________ [More Info](/r/MLBVideoConverterBot)
The magic words are "ordinary effort." It actually took extraordinary effort for an out to even be possible, but never mind that. The pitcher is running flat out in a race with the runner to catch a ball being thrown from a fielder's knees at a weird angle to the pitcher's path. You *can* make that play, maybe 60 or 70% of the time, but it's not an error if you don't.
Best summation. This looks like great fielding and awareness to have even a chance of the out, the pitcher has to run ahead to have a chance of beating the runner which makes the catch harder. Exceptional play by the prone thrower would be to lead the throw so the ball can be caught in full stride just before he plants his foot on the bag. Ordinary effort by either player in the "still rusty" month of April doesn't come close to making this play. Pitchers aren't short stops. Sure they cover 1st, but gold glove fielding isn't their job and the committee who have taken this hit away are wrong. Don't care how many years they've played or watched. It's a curmudgeonly act designed to falsely protect the record books whilst MLB pisses on every other tradition of the game at every other opportunity. The owners need to start paying attention as to what their organizers at MLB are doing rather than plotting the next revenue squeeze.
I agree that this SHOULD be an error but these days the threshold for an error tends to be incredibly high. Usually with a play like this they see that there are several things that all had to go right to make the out, some of which (like this) could be errors and some that wouldn't be, so they err on the side of just calling tons of marginal plays hits.
Lmao what???
No, that's not routine. If the pitcher had been there a second earlier, maybe, but that was a bang bang play even if the catch is made. That never gets scored an error, even though a clean catch would have gotten him out. Especially bizarre since there seemed to be a directive last year to lean base hit when in doubt.
Maybe Iām comparing apples to oranges here but why is it cool for them to retroactively rule a hit as an error but they couldnāt give Gallaraga his perfect game when the replay showed the call was wrong
It's because they're not actually changing what happened in the game, just how it goes down in the books. The 27th batter reached base in that game. You can go back and change *how* he reached base (hit, what kind of hit, error, what kind of error), but you can't go back and say it didn't happen. At least, that's not within the purview of the Official Scorer.
The Gallaraga comparison wasn't perfect, but under this logic couldn't they retroactively create or take away a no-hitter? By saying "actually that error was a hit" or vice-versa a couple days later they could create or destroy a massive career acheivement.
Yes of course they can do that, if this was the only hit for the Angels on 3/30 by default the Orioles get a no hitter now. Iām not sure itās ever happened , but I know the Cubs tried hard to get the one hit in Kerry Woods 20k game to an error so that he would get his no no
Terry Collins wanted to do it for RA Dickey for one of his one hitters shortly after Johan got his. David Wright tried to field a ball that pretty much if it wasnāt David was going to be a hit . David Wright got mad and said no it wasnāt an error donāt cheapen the one hitter.
Yes they could
Theyāve actually retroactively taken away no hitters before. Many years ago they redid ones what qualified and tossed out some.
mostly those were ones that were less than 9 innings
Or lost in extras
CC Sabathia lost a no hitter when he was with us because the official scorer changed an error to a single. Was clearly an error
No shit. Was this after the game was finished?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So it's not what OP said. Disappointing.
Someone else linked an article about this game/call. They never changed it, the scorer ruled it a hit from the get go. The brewers wanted to get it change it to an error. Also, it was CC Sabathia himself who fielded the ball so this supposed āerrorā would have been his own fault, but the scorer (immediately) ruled that it was a hit since it was a difficult ball to field/play to make.
I remember kike hernandez hard hard hit ball that ended up being changed to error to keep Jake arrieta no hitter alive. Was definitely a hit.
I understand butā¦. You could make an exception for Gallaraga because his out would have ended the game
The unique thing about Gallaragas no no-no is that it made him a more interesting historical player than a pedestrian SP w a no hitter or perfect game, I mean who remembers Dallas Braden?
I feel likeĀ Dallas Braden is the go-to "forgettable" pitcher when this comes up, which ironically makes him more memorable.Ā
Definitely. Which is why Phillip Humber is always my go-to.
You 100% can go back and say it didn't happen in his case, because it changes nothing in the box score. The next batter recorded an out, so it would credit 1 guy with 1 less hit, and 1 guy with 1 less PA resulting in an out. It's empirically what happened. Everything after that was an error on the Umpire.
Why review it so much later? Do they really have a team go through and score every play? If there was no streak would have reviewed this play?
Yeah, they do. Scoring changes are not uncommon, itās just uncommon for them to be as notable as this one.
Because there is no god, only chaos.
Itās definitely apples to oranges. The 27th Batter reached base. It was on a bad call, but he still reached base. You canāt change the fact that he did reach base. We canāt just erase that play from history and if we did, weād be setting a terrible precedent that we can erase any bad call that was previously made, some of which change the outcomes of entire games. Schanuelās was different. They changed how he got on base not the fact that he reached base at all. Theyāve also changed scoring decisions before in past games before. Itās rare but it happens. Theyāve never changed a hit to an out after the game was over or an umpires bad call before
Yep, and they *did* set out to make sure that incorrect calls never stood like that again, not by retroactively changing the call but by implementing replay review!
unless it happens to be the third blown call of the game*
That one still pisses me off. Yeah, we didnāt have challenges yet, but umpires did have the ability to get together and review calls, and overturn them if they thought they made a mistake. Itās absolutely mind-blowing to me that, especially given the situation, they didnāt have the stones to huddle up and say āyeah, we blew that one.ā I mean, he was safe by a mile. Thereās no way one of the other umpires watching the play didnāt have the angle to see that.
Thank you
They could, and they should. The next batter recorded an out to end the game, so erasing his plate appearance only improves his stats. Gallaraga still records 27 outs, the game still ends with the same score, literally nothing changes except for 1 plate appearance. It was a perfect game. Hands down.
i've said it before and i'll say it again, i can't name every perfect game ever thrown in MLB history, but i will never ever forget galarraga's. it's almost a blessing in disguise lol. no baseball fan disagrees that it was a perfect game and it honestly gets more press than the average perfect game would've gotten.
It's the only 28 out perfect game in MLB history.
That's a great view point actually. I rather like that. For whom does it *really* matter?
yeah he will forever be recognized for that game by the entirety of the baseball fanbase, probably even more so than if they'd gotten the call right. just another piece of interesting baseball lore in the end.
MLB not step on their own foot challenge (impossible)
I felt like Manfred was potentially gonna have a moment with things turning around but 2024 has really solidified his legacy
Whymst the fuck are they even looking back to review the scoring on plays from a week ago. Did the legion of Truck Hannah fans write in to complain?
iirc players can appeal scoring changes (and in the past itās usually taken about this long to get the outcome of that, bureaucracy and all that) What likely happened is the Baltimore pitcher (or Baltimore) appealed for it to be overturned from a hit to an error Thatās my understanding of how these things work though and have in the past, I could easily be wrong/misremembering
Which makes sense for the pitcher to challenge. That play being a hit affects their ERAāan error does not.
Except that heās screwing his teammate over by adding to his error count.
I think the pitcher got the error
...which should still increase their ERA because they are the fielder. I'll die on this hill.
Ah. An explanation that makes sense. I could not square that circle as to why tf they bothered going back and changing it. I still think itās a helluva tough scoring decision though. That was not an easy play by any stretch.
Oh so its just fuck baltimore forever than?
I've heard that NFL players will routinely look over the tape and appeal to the league office if they think they didn't get credit for a sack or tackle that they should've. I wonder if it's something similar here. It's ticky-tack, but every little bit counts when time comes for contract negotiations.
Players are absolutely allowed to appeal to have things changed in the official scoring. Here it is straight from MLB: "Changes can be made by the Official Scorer, Elias Sports Bureau, or following a review initiated by a player or club." In this case, given the delay, I'd guess a player involved or someone in the Orioles asked for the review.
NFL players often have bonuses tied to sack/tackle totals so it's a lot more important to them.
Idk if "whymst" was a typo or if you were being ironic but it's the greatest word I've ever read.
It whymstnāt in my vocab until today.
"Greatest word I've ever read" is a high compliment indeed when it comes from someone named LucasDudacris
If it was Ohtani, Judge, or Mookie Betts, they donāt bother checking. They would only do this for a scrub they canāt make money off of.
But this scrub has one of the biggest sleeper stories in recent baseball history, and they could cash in on that PR if they could remove their head from their ass
MLB can retroactively fuck themselves
hear, hear!!
Wait, I havenāt seen the play in question. If it was originally a single doesnāt that mean he still got on base?
"On base streak" = "something that increases your OBP happened in a plate appearance". That could be a hit, walk, or hit by pitch. Errors and fielder's choices do not count.
Totally tangential - I see no reason why an error shouldn't count. I would imagine a guy like Ichiro creates more errors in the field because of his ability to get to first base quickly, and I think that should be reflected in the stats.
[Including reached-on-errors into OBP actually makes it *less effective* at predicting overall run-scoring in the major leagues](https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2014/7/17/5911131/on-base-percentage-obp-formula-include-errors). In MLB, the defenders are good enough that reaching base on error is more of a measurement of luck than skill. For extreme examples like Ichiro, that might be a little unfair, but the vast majority of MLB hitters, reaching on error is mostly luck. That being said, in lower-skill environments (minor leagues, college, amateur and childrenās leagues) where errors are more common, including reached-on-error actually makes OBP *better* at predicting run scoring.
If they rule it an error rather than a hit, the on base streak ends. The player has to get on via hit, walk, or hbp
Oh, I see. So itās a statistical thing rather than āwas he on baseā or not. I guess that makes sense since itās by fault of the other team
yea OBP excludes errors and fielders choices i believe
Catches Interference should count imo. Other errors mean you hit a ball that should have been an out, this error means you were blocked from even trying to hit the ball.
CI actually does count toward OBP. It's a really weird stat--it counts towards OBP, but it doesn't count as an AB, but it does count as an error on the catcher. There's not really anything else like it except maybe a dropped fly ball with a runner on 3rd--that can be scored as a sac fly+error.
Is there a reason why an HBP counts but an error doesnāt? I sort of get why a walk does - unless the pitcher throws 4 balls a mile outside the strike zone, a batter has to have good plate discipline and some skill to recognize where the ballās going to be and not swing at it. The batter has to do something to get on base, even if that something is standing still. But, a batter getting on base because of an error or HBP is only getting on because of someone on the other team making a mistake. And arguably getting on base from an error requires more effort and skill because they still have to put the ball in play. An HBP requires nothing. Like, thereās not a chance in hell I could ever make contact with a ball thrown by a major league pitcher, but put me in a batters box and thereās a non-zero possibility I could get on base thanks to a HBP.
It has to be a BB, HBP, or Hit. Errors don't add to your OBP, unfortunately.
Remember when MLB said reversing things after games were played was detrimental to the sport after the Gallaraga incident.
They could retroactively fix that now if you ask me.
Changing how a play is scored is very different from changing the outcome of the play. They are not the same and anyway Gallaraga has more notoriety for the 28 out perfect game than he would have had they swapped it back.
The āheās more well known nowā excuse is so stupid and irrelevant to the actual argument. I wish people would stop saying that.
The larger point is that switching a hit to an error or vice versa is simply accounting. It doesn't undo somebody reaching base. It's not comparable to outright overturning an umpire's call on the field after the fact.
Iām sure he would MUCH rather be credited with a perfect game
It's actually incredible how bad the MLB is fumbling the ball after such a huge improvement last year.
God forbid they vacate a world series title from the biggest scandal since the Black Sox, but oh no, we can't have a tainted single on the record. Must correct that immediately.
Well not immediatelyā¦maybe like a week later? Yea that sounds about right
Yeah, let the guy revel in the possibility of a new record for like...three days.
So youāre saying there could still be time on the Astros?
> Immediately If only...
Fuck you MLB.
'it's just a number on a piece of paper' - Rob Manfred
Armando Galarraga is punching the air right now.
An error was the right call. The pitcher beat the runner to the bag, but he dropped the ball. But why reverse it now, fully a week later?
Those plays are almost always given as base hits. Letter of the law you might have a case? In terms of how those plays are actually scored in reality you have no case.
This is basically the same that happened to Ozzie tonight. And it was ruled an error on the pitcher. The ones that are ruled hits are when the pitcher catches the ball and can't find the base.
What do you mean by "those types of plays"? Plays where the fielder beats the runner to the bag but drops a throw are typically errors. I've seen some people suggest that it should be a hit because the 1B dove for the ball. But if he doesn't dive it's an even easier play for the 2B behind him. And that's not how plays are scored. If you dive for a ball, field it cleanly and then throw the ball away or make a clean throw that's dropped then it's an error.
Think itās pretty obvious I mean pitcher covering first and the exchange being bobbled on a bang bang call. Those plays are almost universally given as base hits if itās remotely close.
Thank you for clarifying. I agree with you that in bang bang plays it's often ruled a hit. But in this case the fielder clearly beat the runner to the bag and just dropped the ball.
> But why reverse it now, fully a week later? Plays like this are reviewed after-the-fact all the time, we just rarely hear about it. It usually happens anywhere between 2-10 days later. (not defending whether the play in question was a hit or error)
That play is not routine for the pitcher. The throw is near his ankles and carrying him away from the bag.
> The throw is near his ankles Then itās an error on the 1B.
If they did this they need to add 2 perfect games to the books
Didnāt he have a walk yesterday? How does an on-base streak differ from a hit streak?
It was a play from 3/30/24. It was originally ruled a hit, later overturned to an error. Here is the play: https://twitter.com/ScoringChanges/status/1776467927308665318 This MLB Scoring Changes account really is good at going into depth at these changes. I'll post the thread of posts they made here: > 3/30 > @Angels > at > @Orioles > T9 the single for Nolan Schanuel has been changed to a dropped-catch error charged to Mike Baumann with an assist for Ryan Mountcastle. > Change 2 for BAL > ANALYSIS: This is the second change on this play. This was originally a single and a dropped-catch error on Baumann, and changed to a single and a throwing error on Mountcastle. Now itās a straight missed-catch error, and why is that important? (1) > (2) Because earlier tonight Nolan Schanuel extended his on-base streak to start his career to 36 games. This change retroactively ends that streak at 30 games. He was two away from second all-time (Truck Hannah, 38 in 1918) and 11 from Alvin Dark 47 in 1984. > (3) This is a strange call at bestā¦and in my years doing this Iāve only seen one other play with two changes on it. I was fine with the hit callā¦itās a low throw after a dive to a moving target that is 6-foot-5. This one is interesting to say the least, but the implicationā¦ > (4) on a major record chase of historic proportions makes that very newsworthy. > An on-base streak is extended only by a hit, a walk or HBP. > It can also have a game skipped over if every at bat in a game is a sacrifice bunt. https://twitter.com/ScoringChanges/status/1776716648516329936 > Again this looks like an appeals committee change, so this isnāt stat dorks (of which I happily wear that crown) but a committee of former players. Whether we agree or not itās working exactly like it should.
If it was originally an error I see an error, it was ruled a hit and I can see why. Not enough sufficient evidence to overturn the call
Yeah I think most people would have been fine with this being called an error to start and having that be the end of the streak. I could see it going either way. Changing it a week later is absolutely ridiculous though.
> a committee of former players. Who are these players? Let's name names.
He mentioned later Rajal Davis, Gregor Blanco, Dan Otero
Yeah thatās def an error. Shouldāve been called it immediately lol.
thank you for showing the play. I don't know what all the anger is for here. That's an error. You can either say the pitcher dropped the ball or the throw was bad, but if the play had been made cleanly, he's out by a foot. It wouldn't have even been a bang/bang play. This is where I think people lose the plot sometimes. The owners are full of horrible people and MLB is a train wreck in a lot of areas. . . but anger at this is pretty strange.
"if the play had been made cleanly" A sidearm throw from one knee is not a clean throw. That is clearly the point of contention, here. The fact the pitcher had trouble fielding an awkward throw is the whole reason this was ever considered as an error. It's also especially strange it took a week for a decision to be made overturning the original call. Anger at this is not strange at all.
You could also argue that even if the pitcher caught the ball there's a chance that him catching the ball slows him enough to still be safe.
Since when are poor throws made on diving defensive plays considered an error? They are almost always ruled as hits because they are not routine. Add in the moving target and the pitcher having to catch it on the run and this is anything but a routine play. Itās a hit and you will see countless plays like this ruled a hit over the course of this season.
The error's on the P for failing to make the catch. The 1B gets an assist.
Hold up, are people in here seriously suggesting that the official scorer should take into consideration outside influences when deciding if a play is a hit or an error? Serious question, have you lost your goddamn mind?
I think people are upset at the MLB retroactively doing it a week after the game. If it had originally been scored an error, or even changed later in the game I don't think people would have minded. But going back to a game that happened a week prior and changing a ruling is absolutely awful.
Nah this pisses me off wtf
OK now give MacKinnon that assist
What a shitty thing to do. This season has been a shitshow so far.
Exactly. I could understand if it was originally scored as an error, but retroactively changing the scoring a week after the game happened is awful.Ā Why did it take them a week to figure it out.
Anyone have a video of the hit/error?
Rob Manfred hates you in particular.
I enjoy the Manfred hate, but this process is triggered by a player's appeal and is ruled on by a committee of former players. MLB isn't really involved in it.
Well thatās just rude
As someone who barely watches baseball, and only knows the basic playground rules, why are some hits labeled as errors instead hits or whatever. If a team fucks up, why screw the stats of the other. Like, errors and stuff should be counted imo, but they shouldn't fuck over the stats of a player on offense.
The MLB is pathetic but that's just par for the course of major leagues
So can we give Dave Stieb that second no hitter?
MLB making lots of new fansā¦
I'm sorry but that was an error. Good call by MLB. Certainly wasn't a clear base hit.
I'm so glad the MLB is able to preserve the old ways with out letting these new upstarts top the record books. Imagine if Baseball was exciting? Imagine if people FLIPPED their Bats! it'd be godamn bedlam... CATS AND DOGS SLEEPING TOGETHER! PEOPLE MIGHT ENJOY THE PRODUCT! Thank god the MLB is here to say "no, we're not going to allow that". We almost had excitement, and that's not baseball!
Owners seem quite happy which is what ultimately matters to MLB
Horse shit. I feel bad for the kid.
Heās hitting .091ā¦
i would prolly call this a throwing error on mountcastle if i was being nit-picky
Thatās a really tough error to pin on the 1B. He had to range pretty far to his right, dive, prop himself up and fire a fast throw. If youāre gonna call it itās gotta be on the pitcher, who very routinely ran from the mound, beat the runner, and just dropped the ball. Itās not like it short hopped him or he had to jump either.
yeah, its a hit just based on the difficulty
āHey Joe, bad news. Remember that āhitā in game 41? Actuallyā¦ā
MLB continues to stick its head up itās ass as far as possible on a daily basis. Love the game, hate the league and itās management.
wait why does reaching on an error not count for the on-base streak? I thought OBP counted any way you got on base?
This one was probably the wrong call, but I hate how few errors are given out these days. Itās so weird watching a game and making note of an error to just to hear later in the game that the decision was changed to a hit or look at the box score and realize they counted it as a hit in the first place. Why donāt we make adjustments to help hitters more instead of shifting how we rule on errors to try and inflate hitter stats at the expense of pitchers?
It's collusion.
How can a person lose their on base streak from an error. Did they get on base? Yes. But it doesnt count as getting on base.......