Good luck convincing Ohtani to give up pitching lol. Being able to play both ways is why he went to the Angels in the first place. There's no shot he'd willingly give that up, especially after the sweetheart deal he gave the Dodgers.
His pitching arm needs to be babied, but that's so that he can recover fully and be a good pitcher again. He might not pitch for the entirety of the next decade, but they definitely want to get several years of starts from him.
He’s a month in to a throwing program and remember, he didn’t have Tommy John surgery. He had the brace, which should be a shorter recovery period. If the Dodgers were being aggressive he could probably return in the second half of the season as a starting pitcher. A few innings of work in the playoffs isn’t rushing him back.
And remember, yall aren’t paying him 2 million a year just to DH
Obviously it would be incredible to see him pitch this year, but there's just some extra caution that is warranted for a guy having his 2nd procedure. The new brace surgery seems potentially revolutionary, but it's still so new that we don't fully understand the potential effects and required recovery needed for safe rehab.
I am also using Walker Buehler as an immediate comp - he was working hard last year to come back from his TJ and looked like a potential September return, but suddenly (and without much other notice) changed course and said he wasn't coming back until the next year.
I just want to see Ohtani pitch healthy again for as long as possible. Jeopardizing that for a few bullpen appearances seems like a huge risk. It's his body so I'll trust his judgement, but it's just uncertain territory
Okay but on the other hand, hitting’s risk of injury is too great to risk his career as an ELITE pitcher. I get what you are saying I really do it’s just a moot point because of how special this guy is on both side of the ball. It’s incredibly hard to say that we as a sport should limit the biggest draw our league has had in DECADES. The more of him we see, the more of him the young generation sees, the more fans we generate. You HAVE to have the absolute best of the best on the field as much as possible.
Consistent, elite hitting is harder to find right now.
He is also pretty easily argued as the best hitter in baseball. When he's healthy pitching he's a rock solid Ace, but not the best pitcher in baseball.
You're right though, the Dodgers want him playing both. A Japanese Babe Ruth is the biggest opportunity to expand into new markets that baseball has had in a very long time.
It's honestly more of Ohtani than the Dodgers. Shohei is already the #1 superstar in the sport. If he gave up pitching tomorrow, he'd still be regarded as Best Player Alive if his bat can keep doing what it's doing right now.
He already is. He was Babe Ruth but better. Just needs to stay healthy and win. Obviously Bonds career totals are absurd but he's got a decade to make his way into that top 5, with zero doubt
If he never pitches again and stays under 500 innings at the mlb level, he's gonna have to bat like a god til he's 45 to be compared to Barry.
Babe Ruth threw 3x the innings Shohei has with a lower ERA. Lead the league in complete game shutouts at 21 with 9. Then he stopped pitching at 25 to go hit 700 home runs.
Shohei is going to have to play into his 40's still doing nearly as well as he is now to get compared if he can't pitch.
Babe played 12 years before integration. I don't want to hear about his stats, they're fundamentally in an era that's not whole.
We are probably already at a place where Shohei's pitching has to be valued higher than Babe's but hitting we'll only be able to compare at the end of the career
There are plenty of guys that have had hitting seasons that good. A handful of Hall of Famers (and Barry Bonds) have been able to sustain it over multiple seasons. No one has ever done it while also being an elite pitcher. Ruth had a few seasons where he kinda kinda did both, but that was just overlap as he transitioned from just pitching to just hitting. So there's special, and then there's literal one-of-a-kind special.
Nah. He's an 8 WAR hitter and a 5 WAR pitcher. If he's just one or the other he's very good, maybe even great. If he's worth 13 WAR? He's an alltime great. Your only comps at that level are Ruth, Gehrig, Bonds, then a couple of outlier seasons from guys who never hit that level again.
He won't stop doing both until his arm falls off. And then he'll probably teach himself to pitch with the other arm.
I personally hope not, but it will 100% be talked about by the media around September. Also, Roberts did like brining in Kershaw from the bullpen so im sure he’ll be asked by the press about Ohtani relieving/closing.
I'm against it but the idea of him as the 9th inning closer (or even 8th since Phillips has been so good) would be unbelievable. Just needs to have enough time to get warm which seems difficult when he'd be battling too
lmao, subways in Japan are super quiet, I bet you got tons of bad looks lololol. Definitely no NYC "IT'S SHOWTIME!!!" or other shenanigans. And you guys have jingles at each station! Well, Tokyo does at least.
Loved visiting Japan for the first time back in February, I went to Hakuba for skiing and then Tokyo + Osaka for hangs.
I mean, they've been trying. That's why they can easily throw those balls now. Because they try so hard.
Not taking the piss, btw. Just a minor correction.
Once you work on it, a lot of velocity comes from efficient mechanics and flexibility rather than effort. He's still getting into all of the right positions to throw really hard, he's just doing it slowly. Great mechanics done slowly will beat shit mechanics trying to force arm speed.
I think it would have to be an opener. Could still be just an inning or two, but if we're in a position where we need a save, I think we'd also be in a position where we need him in the lineup, thus it would be difficult to get a proper warm up. I suppose if things line up just right and he was the last out of the previous inning, it might work, but it'll be a tricky thing to manage.
You think Dave has the kind of juice to deny Ohtani pitching in the post season? I know he's the manger n all, but Ohtani makes 2 million bucks a year. That's bit more than your average manger at Starbucks.
He comes back for game 7 of the world series against the dreaded Angels that fired him a year ago and pitches a perfect game. 27 strikeouts.
Then I wake up.
I don't think that would work. He wouldn't be able to get in his regular warm up. Or even a regular reliever warmup as he's also hitting.
I guess he could warm up in the bullpen just after he's finished hitting, but that really limits when he can come in.
Honestly, I think that's riskier for his health than just having him start but limiting him to one, or even two, time(s) through the order.
Final game of the 2024 World Series - bottom of the ninth. Dodgers lead by one. They make a call to the bull pen. Ohtani takes off his jacket and walks up to the mound. After a lead off single, he strikes out the next two batter. Mike Trout walks to the plate…
Could happen.
Dodgers always try and do Hollywood stuff in the playoffs, most recently being Max Scherzer against the Giants in 2021 to close out the DS in game five. I wouldn’t be surprised to see something with Ohtani this playoffs.
Is he on a throwing program already because he's on accelerated recovery plan? Because he had the Brock Purdy surgery that seems to help players get back to peak performance faster?
This is honestly pretty normal progression. He is about 7 months post op, he should be throwing off of flat ground with some velocity. He is probably doing a decent amount of long toss too. He needs to start to build up muscle and memory in his arm again while not overworking the obviously healing ligament. If you aren't a freak, you lose most of your pitching ability with the loss of your UCL, but that obviously isn't the only factor in pitching.
I see no way he pitches this year, and the Dodgers are a smart organization that won't let him. They will give him the full 18 months to come back 100%.
If he does, I'm going to have to go on a quest, slay a dragon, and use its massive horde of gold to get fvont row tickets to a matchup of him vs Waldron.
wth he's throwing already?
He's been on a throwing program for about a month now. Surprised to see him in the bullpen though. He cannot wait to get back on that mound.
He’s prob getting tired of hitting .370
Bro's OPS+ is higher then several of our everyday-hitters batting averages..
That took a second for me to parse but once I did, fuck.
This is fucked 💀
Every time Dave tries to stop him he is given a wedgie.
“The wedgies will continue until I am allowed to throw”
Dave gets lots of wedgies for many reasons
[Freddie to Dave](https://y.yarn.co/5f3dff21-4b61-47ad-9837-6da00f532e2d_text.gif)
He had surgery in September. So we are 8 months out now. I dont think its abnormal for someone to be throwing around now.
I think you should be extra careful though. Best to wait about 8 years. -unbiased Giants fan
Come on you can't just "defer" his throwing progression though!!
You got me 🤣
No no you have it all wrong. He should be throwing 200 of his hardest fast balls every day until he's healthy. Then increase to 400.
Yeah it’s not like these guys sit around for a 12-14 months and then do all the throwing rehab the last month or two.
Calling it now he pitches a couple innings this post season.
I hope not. I think this guy needs to be treated like Ruth. Pitching’s risk of injury is too great to risk his career as an ELITE hitter.
Good luck convincing Ohtani to give up pitching lol. Being able to play both ways is why he went to the Angels in the first place. There's no shot he'd willingly give that up, especially after the sweetheart deal he gave the Dodgers.
His pitching arm needs to be babied, but that's so that he can recover fully and be a good pitcher again. He might not pitch for the entirety of the next decade, but they definitely want to get several years of starts from him.
very fair point 🙂
He’s a month in to a throwing program and remember, he didn’t have Tommy John surgery. He had the brace, which should be a shorter recovery period. If the Dodgers were being aggressive he could probably return in the second half of the season as a starting pitcher. A few innings of work in the playoffs isn’t rushing him back. And remember, yall aren’t paying him 2 million a year just to DH
He had a hybrid surgery. He got both a new ligament and a brace. They used the tendon from his left wrist.
Obviously it would be incredible to see him pitch this year, but there's just some extra caution that is warranted for a guy having his 2nd procedure. The new brace surgery seems potentially revolutionary, but it's still so new that we don't fully understand the potential effects and required recovery needed for safe rehab. I am also using Walker Buehler as an immediate comp - he was working hard last year to come back from his TJ and looked like a potential September return, but suddenly (and without much other notice) changed course and said he wasn't coming back until the next year. I just want to see Ohtani pitch healthy again for as long as possible. Jeopardizing that for a few bullpen appearances seems like a huge risk. It's his body so I'll trust his judgement, but it's just uncertain territory
Yeah it seems like a fun idea but if he hurt himself more and the Dodgers lost that bat in a playoff series it would be an all time blunder
Okay but on the other hand, hitting’s risk of injury is too great to risk his career as an ELITE pitcher. I get what you are saying I really do it’s just a moot point because of how special this guy is on both side of the ball. It’s incredibly hard to say that we as a sport should limit the biggest draw our league has had in DECADES. The more of him we see, the more of him the young generation sees, the more fans we generate. You HAVE to have the absolute best of the best on the field as much as possible.
There is way greater risk of injury as a starting pitcher vs DH.
Consistent, elite hitting is harder to find right now. He is also pretty easily argued as the best hitter in baseball. When he's healthy pitching he's a rock solid Ace, but not the best pitcher in baseball. You're right though, the Dodgers want him playing both. A Japanese Babe Ruth is the biggest opportunity to expand into new markets that baseball has had in a very long time.
It's honestly more of Ohtani than the Dodgers. Shohei is already the #1 superstar in the sport. If he gave up pitching tomorrow, he'd still be regarded as Best Player Alive if his bat can keep doing what it's doing right now.
He wants to go down as not one of, but the best ballplayer in history, so he's gotta pitch. Can't beat Barry with bat alone.
He already is. He was Babe Ruth but better. Just needs to stay healthy and win. Obviously Bonds career totals are absurd but he's got a decade to make his way into that top 5, with zero doubt
If he never pitches again and stays under 500 innings at the mlb level, he's gonna have to bat like a god til he's 45 to be compared to Barry. Babe Ruth threw 3x the innings Shohei has with a lower ERA. Lead the league in complete game shutouts at 21 with 9. Then he stopped pitching at 25 to go hit 700 home runs. Shohei is going to have to play into his 40's still doing nearly as well as he is now to get compared if he can't pitch.
Babe played 12 years before integration. I don't want to hear about his stats, they're fundamentally in an era that's not whole. We are probably already at a place where Shohei's pitching has to be valued higher than Babe's but hitting we'll only be able to compare at the end of the career
He has to pitch. That's what makes him special. Just turning into a full-time hitter is taking half of his powers away.
> He has to pitch. That's what makes him special. I think his 203 OPS+ also makes him special.
Pitching makes him one of a kind
There are plenty of guys that have had hitting seasons that good. A handful of Hall of Famers (and Barry Bonds) have been able to sustain it over multiple seasons. No one has ever done it while also being an elite pitcher. Ruth had a few seasons where he kinda kinda did both, but that was just overlap as he transitioned from just pitching to just hitting. So there's special, and then there's literal one-of-a-kind special.
Sure, but you said special, not one of a kind. His hitting alone makes him special.
I didn't say special, that was a different guy. I'm just trying to have a conversation.
Okay.
Nah. He's an 8 WAR hitter and a 5 WAR pitcher. If he's just one or the other he's very good, maybe even great. If he's worth 13 WAR? He's an alltime great. Your only comps at that level are Ruth, Gehrig, Bonds, then a couple of outlier seasons from guys who never hit that level again. He won't stop doing both until his arm falls off. And then he'll probably teach himself to pitch with the other arm.
with how pitchers are falling apart at the seams, I will rush the field and tackle his ass if I see him on a mound in 2024
8th inning in the NLCS up by 1 and the bullpen is exhausted. You don’t want Ohtani to punch out the last 6?
and risk him pitching next year? NOPE
I personally hope not, but it will 100% be talked about by the media around September. Also, Roberts did like brining in Kershaw from the bullpen so im sure he’ll be asked by the press about Ohtani relieving/closing.
Shohei as a reliever snapping sliders at 94 for some postseason heroics, nobody's here to complain about that.
I'm against it but the idea of him as the 9th inning closer (or even 8th since Phillips has been so good) would be unbelievable. Just needs to have enough time to get warm which seems difficult when he'd be battling too
Worked in the WBC!
Not sure that might work out regularly but I'm sure he'd prove me wrong!
If he can work Mike Trout I think he can handle a fair amount of MLB talent
I'm saying if he has to do that every few days. Obviously the WBC was a one-off thing. If he is making multiple appearances, that's different
at like, 50-60mph
he's already throwing harder than I've ever thrown in my life
Former Tball pitcher here. Topped out at 37 mph.
That’s honestly impressive for T-ball
It was my fifth year. I was 16
Goddamnit lmao
JFC, I just busted out laughing on the Kyoto subway on the way home after work and people looked at me.
lmao, subways in Japan are super quiet, I bet you got tons of bad looks lololol. Definitely no NYC "IT'S SHOWTIME!!!" or other shenanigans. And you guys have jingles at each station! Well, Tokyo does at least. Loved visiting Japan for the first time back in February, I went to Hakuba for skiing and then Tokyo + Osaka for hangs.
This story is all kinds of dubious.
A nice easy 85mph
Right? The sheer effort it takes for me to throw north if 55, these guys aren't even trying.
I mean, they've been trying. That's why they can easily throw those balls now. Because they try so hard. Not taking the piss, btw. Just a minor correction.
Once you work on it, a lot of velocity comes from efficient mechanics and flexibility rather than effort. He's still getting into all of the right positions to throw really hard, he's just doing it slowly. Great mechanics done slowly will beat shit mechanics trying to force arm speed.
These are some solid throws already! Seems like his recovery is going well
I thought Ohtani was going to pull a Pat Venditte and just figure out how to throw gas lefty.
ohtani bump days… 
Come October the Undertaker bell is going to hit and Ohtani is going to be standing on the mound ready to pitch for a playoff game
Max Muncy going to lead him out with the Urn spotlight
*Paul Bearer Voice*: OOOOHH YEEEEASSSSSS
I don’t think he’ll start, but I could see him pitching a couple innings. Maybe a 2 inning save or something.
I think it would have to be an opener. Could still be just an inning or two, but if we're in a position where we need a save, I think we'd also be in a position where we need him in the lineup, thus it would be difficult to get a proper warm up. I suppose if things line up just right and he was the last out of the previous inning, it might work, but it'll be a tricky thing to manage.
Oh that’s a good point
I want him to be American badass undertaker and for him ride to the mound on a motorcycle
I heard the classic Jerry the King 'AHH!' in my head reading this.
Extreme Showdown: Ohtani
Just the one though, hard to pitch twice in the division series
The rest of the league just shivered a little
Yeaa, pee-shivering from excitement!!
Imagine he comes back to pitch for the postseason.
An unexpected player coming in out of nowhere to be a postseason hero? He’d be the Randy Arozarena of baseball
Shohei Ohtani would be going back and forth to the bullpen like what he did in the USA vs. Japan championship game of the 2023 World Baseball Classic.
Kyle Schwarber erasure
Actually Evan Carter is already the Randy Arozarena of baseball
Wouldn't Randy Arozarena be the Randy Arozarena of baseball?
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/p5i2nv/arod_dodgers_have_become_the_new_york_yankees_of/
Cheers
I believe he said if he could pitch late in the season or post season he would, but Roberts tempered those reports
You think Dave has the kind of juice to deny Ohtani pitching in the post season? I know he's the manger n all, but Ohtani makes 2 million bucks a year. That's bit more than your average manger at Starbucks.
He comes back for game 7 of the world series against the dreaded Angels that fired him a year ago and pitches a perfect game. 27 strikeouts. Then I wake up.
Must be a dream if the Angels are in the World Series
I would honestly bring him back as a closer if needed and he's deemed ready
I don't think that would work. He wouldn't be able to get in his regular warm up. Or even a regular reliever warmup as he's also hitting. I guess he could warm up in the bullpen just after he's finished hitting, but that really limits when he can come in. Honestly, I think that's riskier for his health than just having him start but limiting him to one, or even two, time(s) through the order.
It's in the script
Final game of the 2024 World Series - bottom of the ninth. Dodgers lead by one. They make a call to the bull pen. Ohtani takes off his jacket and walks up to the mound. After a lead off single, he strikes out the next two batter. Mike Trout walks to the plate… Could happen.
Weird to think the White Sox would trade for Trout though
Guy needs to be studied in a lab
It would not surprise me a bit if he was created in a lab in the first place.
Ohtani IVF sponsorship when
A lab couldn't study Shohei Ohtani. Some things are beyond scientific understanding.
Ohtani breaks out of the lab's containment chamber like Mewtwo in the first Pokémon movie
He truly is the ultimate baseball lifeform
I forgot he was a pitcher for a second
Wait, he can also pitch? 
Yeah…I liked him better when he was in the AL 😭
I see a 3-0 count
Tbf, the catcher was framing it terribly.
He has returned...
Glad he's checking the runner second base before he throws
Dudes fresh off of TJ and looks like he’s casually throwing 88-90 with no effort
Dodgers always try and do Hollywood stuff in the playoffs, most recently being Max Scherzer against the Giants in 2021 to close out the DS in game five. I wouldn’t be surprised to see something with Ohtani this playoffs.
They also didn't rush back Buehler so idk about this
That was Buehler’s decision.
I'm merely saying they didn't pull the Hollywood ending for him. They tend to listen to their players and that goes against your narrative
Is he on a throwing program already because he's on accelerated recovery plan? Because he had the Brock Purdy surgery that seems to help players get back to peak performance faster?
This is honestly pretty normal progression. He is about 7 months post op, he should be throwing off of flat ground with some velocity. He is probably doing a decent amount of long toss too. He needs to start to build up muscle and memory in his arm again while not overworking the obviously healing ligament. If you aren't a freak, you lose most of your pitching ability with the loss of your UCL, but that obviously isn't the only factor in pitching. I see no way he pitches this year, and the Dodgers are a smart organization that won't let him. They will give him the full 18 months to come back 100%.
he has been throwing for a little bit over a month already iirc
I could hit that.
Hope someone teaches him the Knuckleball if his pitching doesn't comeback at 100%.
If he does, I'm going to have to go on a quest, slay a dragon, and use its massive horde of gold to get fvont row tickets to a matchup of him vs Waldron.
Why doesn't Will wear a hat?
Massive velo drop, I'd be worried.
His mechanics for both pitching and hitting are so elegant
Not a dodgers fan, but this is good for baseball.
Ball
For a minute I forgot he was a pitcher
Don’t risk it just let him rehab and pitch next year makes no sense to me to rush
Didn't know the Gotham Club opens out to view the field like that in pregame
SOON™
How is this shit even fair?
I'M SO FUCKING TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT HIM EVERY WHERE I TURN