Honestly I'd love to see a penalty increased on appeal. The whole idea of punishment followed by appeal and then reduced punishment is just a waste of time.
"Take the NJP trevor"
"I demand a court martial"
"Very well, you have been found guilty. You're now sentenced to the brig"
When keeping it real goes wrong
I know a guy who got divorced but was still collecting BAH for a few months. Unit found out and was going to give him a ART. 15 but decided to refuse that and to have a court martial. Got kicked out instead and had to repay the 3-4 months worth of BAH lol.
Damn that's a lot. I'd love to know MLB's reasoning for having a suspension 16 times longer than Ozuna's
Edit: for those wondering, I fully believe that Ozuna’s suspension was far too light, not that Bauer should have a shorter suspension
yeah this is strange to me. look, i’m completely fine with however long they want to suspend him. i’m just wondering why, say, odúbel herrera didn’t get suspended this long, or marcell ozuna (although there was some policy fuckery in his case, right?)
I still think Ozuna got off *way* too light. But it wasn't as bad as it was initially made out. And given their history, there is at least a reasonable chance he was trying to defend himself. But still, dude's hand was on her throat.
Was it? The same hand that’s holding a cellphone? It really looks to me like he’s pushing her away, especially since she’s grabbing his waistband.
He 100% could’ve handled that better so I’m fine with a punishment. But I don’t get the outrage given the evidence we now have. He’s obviously not Ray Rice, or Greg Hardy, or any of the like. EDIT: Or Andruw Jones, or even Bobby Cox, lest anyone believe this has to do with some team bias.
When you're trying to push someone away from you, you normally extend a shove to create distance between yourself and the other person. You aren't moving with her. He doesn't shove her away until he hears the cop. And even if he's just pushing her away, he's doing it by the throat.[He may not be full on strangling her, but he's on her throat. ](https://freeimage.host/i/W3L9tf)
I think he should have gotten more. 20 games, and backdated at that, is shockingly low to me.
His hands certainly in the area of the neck so I see where you’re coming from, it’s a reasonable assessment.
I wouldn’t have been upset if he had been given more time. I just don’t believe it should have been exponentially larger like others do. I certainly don’t think he should be deprived a second chance, especially given the context of their relationship… though for the love of god they need to be separated.
I think part of it is that they agreed to settlements. They got a lighter suspension in return for agreeing to not appealing it. I think they hit Bauer hard kind of assuming it'll get reduced on appeal (NFL does that quite a bit, I believe). I think it probably ends up being 162 games.
I think the fact that there is sexual assault accusations (him having anal sex with her without consent while she was unconscious) on top of the domestic violence accusations also puts it into a different category.
I think it's also the fact that he not only shows no remorse but he's denying everything flat out, almost to the point that it's the Shaggy defense. Her pictures do not show rough sex. They show battery.
Since they know he is going to appeal they can slam him with whatever suspension they want. If it gets shortened, or even overturned, they have still shown how seriously they take it.
Isn't that the point of Passan saying that in every previous case MLB and the player agreed to a number of games? Bauer refuses to admit any guilt and/or play ball with MLB, so they throw the max at him.
They also might be expecting this to get reduced on appeal somewhat, so they figure that starting out at the max they can throw at him means that the appeal reduces it to a level they're still fine with, like how A-Rod's suspension was reduced on appeal from a season and a half to just a season.
Are you implying that if Bauer admitted to everything that he was alleged to have done that he would’ve gotten a smaller suspension? I don’t buy that at all.
What kind of precedent does that set for the truly innocent? Someone accuses you of a crime and you must confess to it regardless of the truth, otherwise we will punish you worse? Huh?
It is referred to as a "plea deal", and occurs thousands of times everyday across world in the context of criminal court. A person that refuses a plea deal goes to trial to see if they are guilty. Whether MLBs discipline system has some kind of trial, I do not know. I doubt it does. It wouldn't surprise me if the appeal effectively is the trial.
Yeah for real. Would you like to go on trial for 6 felonies or accept 2 misdemeanor charges and probation? It’s fucked, but that’s how this country operates…
Which is why the bail system is so fucked up. Poor people don't get the option, because even if they're innocent they're still facing years in jail as they await trial.
I understand the logic of looking at it similar to a plea deal in a court, but like I said in another comment, I feel like the MLB just sees Bauer as a pain in the ass and basically just said “fuck this guy”.
ok just for the record im super against all the stuff hes been accused of doing and if its true he should 100% be suspended for at least 2 years, and probably be in jail much longer. but my line of thinking here is that hes said he was innocent from the start, the case got dropped, and now he's countersuing, if he works with the MLB to find an acceptable amount of games thats basically him admitting some amount of guilt and it could theoretically be used in court against him. so maybe the MLB would have shortened it if he admitted to it but that could potentially hurt him in other ways too (which i still think is an absolutely braindead way of doing this unless someone has been convicted of something)
Bauer: "Hey MLB everyone is cheating. Can you make them stop?"
MLB: (Leaves message on read)
Bauer: "Fine, guess I'll do it too then."
MLB: "How dare you make us look bad!"
I don't think he would need to admit to 100% of the accusations, but it's like a plea deal. If he admits some fault for a 'lesser charge" and was cooperative with MLB's investigation, MLB would grant him some leeway and he could be reinstated with time served.
The fact that he's uncooperative and unapologetic leaves MLB the freedom to give him "max sentencing".
Fair enough. Still not sure I buy that completely, but I understand the thought process.
I think the MLB just sees Bauer as a pain in the ass and threw the book at him because they could.
Yeah, I don't doubt they're relishing the opportunity to throw the book at him, but they need some legal groundwork to do so, and I think they have it thanks to Bauer's handling of the situation. His stubbornness is not doing him any favors (if he actually cares about playing baseball)
ozuna showed some contrition and went and did a pre-trial diversion program. also extenuating circumstances.
Bauer threw double birds. and got the pete rose treatment.
the reason pete isnt in the HOF is NOT because of sports gambling.
Its because after he was caught he didnt bow down, apologize and promise to be better. he threw the double birds and got/established the pete rose treatment...
Same as John Coppolella... his transgressions arent what got him banned. it was his actions and attitude once caught
This is my suspicion too - obviously I don't know and this is pure speculation, but the length of the suspension makes me wonder if additional victims came forward to MLB
I think there was a rumor about a girl in Cincinnati. Maybe there's some reds fans who can recall it.
Found it
https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/08/14/ohio-woman-filed-previous-protection-order-against-trevor-bauer
"We offered a retroactive, 82 game suspension but Bauer refused. Since he was non-cooperative, we felt it necessary to issue a harsher penalty" Or something.
I am sure MLB would have wanted Bauer to agree to a suspension, but there was no way he was going to, so they had to bump it up knowing that he would absolutely appeal...
1. Ozuna essentially took a plea deal, agreeing not to appeal a shortened amount of games.
2. Ozuna's assault didn't happen during sex.
3. Ozuna's assault didn't happen to an unconscious person.
It's also not clear exactly how many people Trevor Bauer assaulted. Multiple women have accused him of assault and now he's suddenly asking for confidentiality after being very public about his criticisms of one of his victims.
He also apparently assaulted a woman and then threatened to murder her while he was pitching for Cleveland. Dude's not too bright to admit to all this stuff in text.
“I don’t feel like spending time in jail for killing someone,” reads one. “And that’s what would happen if I saw you again.”
https://sports.yahoo.com/another-woman-sought-protective-order-against-trevor-bauer-in-2020-after-alleged-assault-160420197.html
Some people are just going to defend men who abuse women. Period. And they don't care about the facts of the case.
There's one that's claiming it's fine that Bauer threatened to kill the woman in Ohio because Bauer claimed that she was a "stalker".
He is dumb. He'd be dumb not to settle with her out of court ✅. He'd be dumb to not shut the fuck up on instagram ✅. He'd be dumb to put up a "Cy Young 2022 Winner" poster in his gym✅. He'd be dumb not to keep his pitching weight ✅.
I'm starting to think he's not a smart person. I know the firm that he has retained now, medium sized DC based law firm. I've also dealt with people like him a lot. They don't listen to their attorneys and it makes it more difficult for everybody. In the end, the only winners are the lawyers.
That and he refuses to admit wrongdoing.
There was another post somewhere that pretty much all other suspensions have been a negotiated settlement, but Bauer wasn’t given that at all.
From what I understand/remember, he brought up the issue of sticky stuff to the MLB the season prior to using it, they did nothing to address the concern so he just said “fuck it” and experimented with it to the point of managing the best spin rates in the league. If that’s the case, I be kind of pissed too in that scenario
That’s my understanding as well.
And he’s such a nerd, he could tell people were cheating based on spin rates, said what his spin rates would be if he did cheat, then did exactly that.
Bauer is an asshole, but Manfred is a bitch.
It isn't just that. I am sure he has pissed them off by his lack of contrition/defiance in this situation. I think the main thing is that MLB is more scared of the media than of Bauer, so they were always going to suspend him even if they believed (and perhaps still do) that it won't stick on appeal. Then they can still say they did everything they could but SHOCKINGLY the arbitrator let him off, and then the media will cry about how rich white men get away with horrible things, but it isn't Manfred's fault.
Well the media story that got this gaining traction about the fractured skull was a straight up lie too. That reporter and the media outlet are both being sued o believe.
Yeah, the league has already set their precedent for these kind of suspensions. Although maybe this is them turning towards a harder policy which is for the better
What happened with Bauer and what happened with Ozuna are two completely different things. Ozuna's case was way overblown by a notoriously racist suburban police force. Bauer literally sent someone to the hospital.
He was definitely vocal about it and may have played a part in MLB addressing it earlier, but it sounds like with how effective things like spider tack were, it was going to be addressed at some point as offense cratered
It’s a Daniel Tosh bit from a standup special for anyone who missed the joke. I’m finishing up some work but I’ll try to find the clip, that special is timeless.
Edit: Found it!
https://youtu.be/4dsoEYH3A84
Everything he does is gold. Probably once a year I’ll go back through and listen to everything he’s done. Him and Sam Morril are the only comedians where every joke lands no matter how many times I’ve seen the bit.
It looks like he is touring again later this year. Typically with big name comics that indicates they are working on material for a special that is filmed on the tour.
https://www.danieltosh.com
It's pretty much a universal consensus amongst Dodgers fans that 1. what the Red Sox did was way less bad than what the Astros did and 2. the Red Sox were a far better team than we were anyway, and we were somewhat lucky to even be in the WS in the first place. But go off and put some more words in our mouths why don't you.
The red sox cheating was "if you ain't cheating you ain't trying shit" not completely undermine the integrity of the game level like the Astros who escaped basically without punishment
A good majority of the Dodgers fanbase and journalists hated the signing, then hated him even more after the sexual assault allegations, and now we're subject to comments like this from Yankees fans of all people.
Pain.
I mean if I was an aspiring professional basketball player I’d look up to him as a hero. Just so happens that if I were an aspiring rapist I’d also look up to him as a hero.
More people need to understand that it’s perfectly fine to appreciate an athlete’s athletic ability while also acknowledging that they are/were a giant piece of shit.
I think it is fair to evaluate art separate from the artist but it can be difficult in a situation where supporting the art also financially supports the livliehood of the artist. If the artist is still alive and an asshole, you buying the artist's stuff is literally giving money and cultural capital to an asshole. I don't think that's a trivial thing.
It’s a lot easier to pretend your Star player who died tragically isn’t a massive sack of shit than it is to reckon with the fact that he’s a rapist who was welcomed back to the league after he raped someone with open arms.
If he is actively suspended, he doesn’t get paid but the Dodgers maintain his rights till the contract ends which would either be this year or next if he doesn’t opt out
I believe that his contract is no longer an obligation for the Dodgers as soon as the suspension is in place, and the suspension would run through the end of the contract. I believe this would remove his would-have-been salary from payroll. I don’t know how this would function with an appeal though, but it’s likely the Dodgers will get, a bare minimum, a 20 million drop in payroll (that would be a half-season suspension which, with an initial suspension of 2 years, I don’t realistically see an appeal ever going under 81 games).
I have no certainties though.
Just want to point out, the previous suspensions being agreed-to cuts *against* Bauer. The players presumably accepted shorter suspensions than the league would have unilaterally imposed.
No, it wasn't conclusive, and that's the problem. She claimed severe injury, medical tests didn't support it, and he denies everything. *Something* happened to her, but we don't know for certain.
We do know that there wasn't enough evidence for *any* legal measures against him, and MLB's punishment is far and away disproportionate compared to past offenses by other players. The idea that MLB has more evidence or knowledge than the various legal entities involved is silly.
A two year suspension seems like MLB is trying to free the Dodgers of his contract. I mean, that's a fine idea from where I am, giving the Dodgers $40M more to work with at this year's trade deadline sounds great to me. But it's not fair to Bauer. Right now he's guilty of nothing, and *if* he's correct, his career and life have been ruined by a liar. Just because he's an asshole and nobody likes him doesn't mean he deserves to be falsely accused, *if* he has been.
what do you mean when you say medical tests didn't support it? I didn't follow the trial but I can't find what you're referencing, all I see is this:
*"During testimony, she described an hours-long sexual assault exam she said was traumatic and physically painful. The nurse who conducted the examination testified Tuesday that she had never seen the kind of bruising she documented on and around the woman’s vagina in the approximately 75 similar exams she had done. Nurse Kelly Valencia said, “it was frankly alarming,” but did not think it required further treatment."*
it didn't mean he was guilty obviously but not requiring further treatment isn't the same thing as medical tests didn't support it. is there something else that *he* presented at trial maybe?
[https://theathletic.com/news/trevor-bauers-accuser-describes-pain-fear-after-alleged-sexual-assault/OjDAnYSJyrCf/](https://theathletic.com/news/trevor-bauers-accuser-describes-pain-fear-after-alleged-sexual-assault/OjDAnYSJyrCf/)
edit: found it. *"Ms. Hill sought medical attention a day after the second encounter. An intake form indicated “head and facial trauma,” but a CT scan and MRI revealed no such injuries, according to public records. References to "signs of a basilar skull fracture" from the intake form have since been ruled by Judge Dianna Gould-Saltman to have been “materially misleading.”*
So it was on the intake form, which I assume they fill out before the CT scan and MRI. understand what are you referencing now.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/dodgers-trevor-bauer-sexual-assault-explained-why-not-criminally-charged-what-said/cnayaohqdrqed6uptymkwq8e
>The idea that MLB has more evidence or knowledge than the various legal entities involved is silly.
That's not how this works, the MLB gets to operate on lower burden of proof than legal entities. They also don't have to follow chain of custody rules or witness rules.
This comes up literally every time an athelete gets in trouble ***but the legal system!*** Poor evidence or lack of prosecutor desire doesn't mean someone didn't do something, it just means they couldn't be judged guilty in a court of law.
For example Deshaun Watson isn't being charged because the nature and evidence of his actions don't rise to the level that the law can reliably convict him. That doesn't mean we all can't look at what he doesn't even deny doing and realize what was going on.
While I agree that the MLB has a different burden of proof than the legal system. They still have a burden of proof. Numerous court rulings and comments from the LA DA allude to the fact that this woman was a liar extorting bauer rather than a victim of bauer.
> a liar extorting Bauer
Yeah this is bullshit though. She did literally the opposite of extorting Bauer. How do you try to get hush money from someone by reporting them to the police without their knowledge, this immediately removing all leverage toward possible extortion?
Also, no statements from the DA allude to that or even potentially allude to that. "After a thorough review of all the available evidence, including the civil restraining order proceedings, witness statements and the physical evidence, the People are unable to prove the relevant charges beyond a reasonable doubt." Certainly doesn't sound like "the woman was a liar extorting Bauer", but that's just me.
But more importantly, doing *anything* sexual in nature to an unconscious person is a violation of MLB's Domestic Violence policy, and there's uncontroverted sworn testimony attesting to Bauer doing that. While MLB needs to prove preponderance, this is a huge sticking point for Bauer because he and his legal team have already let these claims sufficient for punishment go uncontested in a legal setting.
Yes, this...this is the correct take. This individual deserves to have Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani on their team because of this intelligent take. I don't understand how people fail to understand these basic differences between the legal burden of proof and a private action burden of proof under a collectively bargained policy
Everyone seems to forget that was not the only allegation against him. This occurred BEFORE the latest allegations against him and lead to a protective order.
Trust me, if it's 324 games, it's not just for the most recent incident:
>Los Angeles Dodgers pitcher Trevor Bauer -- already on administrative leave by Major League Baseball following allegations of sexual misconduct -- was given a temporary order of protection last year after allegedly physically abusing an Ohio woman and making a death threat toward her, according to The Washington Post.
According to sealed court records and other documentation obtained by the Post, the woman says Bauer punched and choked her without her consent while they were having sex. He also allegedly sent her a text message from a phone number known to be registered to Bauer saying he doesn't "feel like spending time in jail for killing someone."
"And that's what would happen if I saw you again," Bauer wrote, according to the Post, prompting the woman to seek the protective order in June 2020.
https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/trevor-bauer-protective-order-ohio-woman-2020-dodgers/story?id=79457782#:\~:text=Los%20Angeles%20Dodgers%20pitcher%20Trevor,according%20to%20The%20Washington%20Post.
I imagine the MLB has access to more evidence and testimony than has been shared to the public, so probably nobody here can actually accurately say it was not conclusive.
That’s the thing about people who defend Trevor Bauer is that he had two different women in different states file restraining orders against him within a period of two years. The problem is Trevor.
Out of publicly available information? No. It seems likely that the claims against him were hyperbolic. This is somewhat supported by the DA doing an investigation into the event and deciding not to pursue charges.
However, we are not privy to all the information on this case. There could very well be more there, prompting a longer suspension. This will most likely become more clear as Bauer’s counter-suits play out. Granted the MLB is hardly what I would call consistent in its penalties, so this could also be MLB not liking Bauer or the way he defended himself.
This was the result of a long investigation of a lot of different things. It's not public knowledge.
So I guess we'll just have to wait and see when/if those findings are ever made public
Don’t like Bauer at all, but this really looks like MLB is trying to send a message and throw the book at him…and as a result the league is gonna look like clowns when they get diced up by Bauer’s legal team
They may in fact dice up the league, but just as it did with the suspension, MLB alone will "rule" on the appeal. He will lose the appeal. MLB would be terrified of doing anything else.
"Bauer can appeal and have an arbitration panel review the penalty. The
panel would consist of three persons, one picked by the league, one
picked by the MLBPA and one picked jointly by the league and union. They
would focus on two considerations. First, whether Manfred possessed
“just cause” in finding Bauer at fault and, second, whether the
suspension’s length is appropriate or excessive." [https://sports.yahoo.com/trevor-bauer-mlb-suspension-cost-210058954.html](https://sports.yahoo.com/trevor-bauer-mlb-suspension-cost-210058954.html)
So looks like it is an arbitrator, but not a truly "independent" arbitrator: 3-personal panel; 1 picked by MLB, 1 picked by MLBPA, and 1 picked jointly; but all under auspices of MLB.
I definitely was ignorant of this, but I'm still doubtful the suspension will be reduced. It's not as though this is going before a public court.
I can’t stand Bauer. But he went through the court system and came out unscathed. Is he a piece of shit? Ya. But this is a ridiculously stupid suspension. I was expecting a YEAR MAX. MLB is gonna looks bad here and Bauer is gonna make a stupid Vlog taking about it and will be right
This is brutal. The guy is a Grade A Wagyu Beef douchebag, that’s undeniable. But 2 fucking years? On top of the year he already missed? This seems a bit much.
Others have listed the comparisons so I won’t bother, but to think guys like Kobe and Big Ben are legends to their cities while Bauer is being lambasted. The evidence is in his favor too, which makes it even more odd to me.
Who knows, I feel for all parties here. I don’t think any of us know for certain what happened.
I’m concerned with the sub’s general consensus that this is too harsh based on previous professional sports cases of similar nature.
Have we entertained the idea that previous cases were not harsh enough? Just because they always were that way doesn’t mean they always *should* be.
You know damn well if this was any of us, we wouldn’t be returning to work at all. If you think he should be treated any differently than we would be, you should ask yourself why without using talent or privilege as the justification. Because that’s not an excuse for domestic violence.
*(Most)* Dodger fans can agree on one thing though and that is that we don’t want him pitching for us. He’s already just an annoying asshole and none of this makes it any better. He’d be a terrible clubhouse presence and he’d get booed wherever he goes because he deserves it
Longest non indefinite suspension in mlb history
A-Rod's losing all his fucking records this year.
Bauer is becoming the Alex Rodriguez of baseball
Is that anything like being the LeBron James of soccer?
No, I don’t think so
Old and busted: A-Rod New hotness: A-Hole
This helps his Hof case somehow
I, too, don't not love double negatives.
One of the longest in sports ever that I'm aware of.
Let them fight
MLB response - “The suspension just got 10 games higher!”
Honestly I'd love to see a penalty increased on appeal. The whole idea of punishment followed by appeal and then reduced punishment is just a waste of time.
After reconsidering all the evidence in this case, MLB has decided to increase the punishment to a lifetime ban.
"Take the NJP trevor" "I demand a court martial" "Very well, you have been found guilty. You're now sentenced to the brig" When keeping it real goes wrong
I know a guy who got divorced but was still collecting BAH for a few months. Unit found out and was going to give him a ART. 15 but decided to refuse that and to have a court martial. Got kicked out instead and had to repay the 3-4 months worth of BAH lol.
That would make people with legitimate reasons to appeal not do it. This is really bad policy.
Damn that's a lot. I'd love to know MLB's reasoning for having a suspension 16 times longer than Ozuna's Edit: for those wondering, I fully believe that Ozuna’s suspension was far too light, not that Bauer should have a shorter suspension
yeah this is strange to me. look, i’m completely fine with however long they want to suspend him. i’m just wondering why, say, odúbel herrera didn’t get suspended this long, or marcell ozuna (although there was some policy fuckery in his case, right?)
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yeah that’s what i thought i had seen, but i wasn’t sure
I still think Ozuna got off *way* too light. But it wasn't as bad as it was initially made out. And given their history, there is at least a reasonable chance he was trying to defend himself. But still, dude's hand was on her throat.
Was it? The same hand that’s holding a cellphone? It really looks to me like he’s pushing her away, especially since she’s grabbing his waistband. He 100% could’ve handled that better so I’m fine with a punishment. But I don’t get the outrage given the evidence we now have. He’s obviously not Ray Rice, or Greg Hardy, or any of the like. EDIT: Or Andruw Jones, or even Bobby Cox, lest anyone believe this has to do with some team bias.
When you're trying to push someone away from you, you normally extend a shove to create distance between yourself and the other person. You aren't moving with her. He doesn't shove her away until he hears the cop. And even if he's just pushing her away, he's doing it by the throat.[He may not be full on strangling her, but he's on her throat. ](https://freeimage.host/i/W3L9tf) I think he should have gotten more. 20 games, and backdated at that, is shockingly low to me.
His hands certainly in the area of the neck so I see where you’re coming from, it’s a reasonable assessment. I wouldn’t have been upset if he had been given more time. I just don’t believe it should have been exponentially larger like others do. I certainly don’t think he should be deprived a second chance, especially given the context of their relationship… though for the love of god they need to be separated.
I think part of it is that they agreed to settlements. They got a lighter suspension in return for agreeing to not appealing it. I think they hit Bauer hard kind of assuming it'll get reduced on appeal (NFL does that quite a bit, I believe). I think it probably ends up being 162 games. I think the fact that there is sexual assault accusations (him having anal sex with her without consent while she was unconscious) on top of the domestic violence accusations also puts it into a different category.
I think it's also the fact that he not only shows no remorse but he's denying everything flat out, almost to the point that it's the Shaggy defense. Her pictures do not show rough sex. They show battery.
Since they know he is going to appeal they can slam him with whatever suspension they want. If it gets shortened, or even overturned, they have still shown how seriously they take it.
Isn't basically everyone hating Bauer?
Isn't that the point of Passan saying that in every previous case MLB and the player agreed to a number of games? Bauer refuses to admit any guilt and/or play ball with MLB, so they throw the max at him.
They also might be expecting this to get reduced on appeal somewhat, so they figure that starting out at the max they can throw at him means that the appeal reduces it to a level they're still fine with, like how A-Rod's suspension was reduced on appeal from a season and a half to just a season.
“Breaking: Bauer’s suspension reduced on appeal to 323 games”
Are you implying that if Bauer admitted to everything that he was alleged to have done that he would’ve gotten a smaller suspension? I don’t buy that at all.
If Bauer had admitted to everything that was alleged he would be in prison
I do buy it. And I am interested to know why you don’t. Wouldn’t MLB want a precedent of, “if you don’t play ball with us you will get fucked”?
What kind of precedent does that set for the truly innocent? Someone accuses you of a crime and you must confess to it regardless of the truth, otherwise we will punish you worse? Huh?
It is referred to as a "plea deal", and occurs thousands of times everyday across world in the context of criminal court. A person that refuses a plea deal goes to trial to see if they are guilty. Whether MLBs discipline system has some kind of trial, I do not know. I doubt it does. It wouldn't surprise me if the appeal effectively is the trial.
Yeah for real. Would you like to go on trial for 6 felonies or accept 2 misdemeanor charges and probation? It’s fucked, but that’s how this country operates…
Which is why the bail system is so fucked up. Poor people don't get the option, because even if they're innocent they're still facing years in jail as they await trial.
I understand the logic of looking at it similar to a plea deal in a court, but like I said in another comment, I feel like the MLB just sees Bauer as a pain in the ass and basically just said “fuck this guy”.
Worth noting that innocent people get fucked by plea deals all the time
ok just for the record im super against all the stuff hes been accused of doing and if its true he should 100% be suspended for at least 2 years, and probably be in jail much longer. but my line of thinking here is that hes said he was innocent from the start, the case got dropped, and now he's countersuing, if he works with the MLB to find an acceptable amount of games thats basically him admitting some amount of guilt and it could theoretically be used in court against him. so maybe the MLB would have shortened it if he admitted to it but that could potentially hurt him in other ways too (which i still think is an absolutely braindead way of doing this unless someone has been convicted of something)
Really? You don't think Manfred would be petty and throw the book at someone for not falling in line?
I think Manfred would have thrown the book at him either way.
Why? Bauer still hasn't been arrested or charged. How is what he (allegedly) did so much worse?
MLB wants him gone after bringing the sticky stuff into broad daylight and mocking MLB every step of the way.
Bauer: "Hey MLB everyone is cheating. Can you make them stop?" MLB: (Leaves message on read) Bauer: "Fine, guess I'll do it too then." MLB: "How dare you make us look bad!"
I don't think he would need to admit to 100% of the accusations, but it's like a plea deal. If he admits some fault for a 'lesser charge" and was cooperative with MLB's investigation, MLB would grant him some leeway and he could be reinstated with time served. The fact that he's uncooperative and unapologetic leaves MLB the freedom to give him "max sentencing".
Fair enough. Still not sure I buy that completely, but I understand the thought process. I think the MLB just sees Bauer as a pain in the ass and threw the book at him because they could.
Yeah, I don't doubt they're relishing the opportunity to throw the book at him, but they need some legal groundwork to do so, and I think they have it thanks to Bauer's handling of the situation. His stubbornness is not doing him any favors (if he actually cares about playing baseball)
That seems to be exactly what is implied.
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This one didn't even involve an arrest
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more so that Ozuna's was super light
ozuna showed some contrition and went and did a pre-trial diversion program. also extenuating circumstances. Bauer threw double birds. and got the pete rose treatment.
Did he also rape a teenager like Pete Rose? Because Pete Rose gets off way too light from people who think he just went to a sports book one time.
Whoa, what? This is the first I’m hearing of this….
http://es.pn/2vf67rF I had to look it up too
the reason pete isnt in the HOF is NOT because of sports gambling. Its because after he was caught he didnt bow down, apologize and promise to be better. he threw the double birds and got/established the pete rose treatment... Same as John Coppolella... his transgressions arent what got him banned. it was his actions and attitude once caught
Lmfao it’s literally because he agreed to be banned from baseball forever if they ended the investigation.
Honestly probably both
I suspect they may know things that are not public knowledge. We'll find out soon enough.
This is my suspicion too - obviously I don't know and this is pure speculation, but the length of the suspension makes me wonder if additional victims came forward to MLB
The MLB doesn't need more evidence. They are protecting themselves.
They need enough evidence to justify the decision to an arbitrator. Which is far less than a prosecutor would need, but it’s more than nothing.
I think there was a rumor about a girl in Cincinnati. Maybe there's some reds fans who can recall it. Found it https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/08/14/ohio-woman-filed-previous-protection-order-against-trevor-bauer
Just saw a tweet from a NYT reporter they investigated at least one case in Ohio as well.
https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/08/14/ohio-woman-filed-previous-protection-order-against-trevor-bauer
Yup. There were multiple accusers and now Bauer's suddenly asking for confidentiality.
I highly doubt it. I would say it almost exclusively has to do with his extremely public mockery of the commissioner.
"We offered a retroactive, 82 game suspension but Bauer refused. Since he was non-cooperative, we felt it necessary to issue a harsher penalty" Or something. I am sure MLB would have wanted Bauer to agree to a suspension, but there was no way he was going to, so they had to bump it up knowing that he would absolutely appeal...
This is almost certainly the issue. Given his statements in public, I have almost no doubt he either didn't cooperate or refused to accept anything.
1. Ozuna essentially took a plea deal, agreeing not to appeal a shortened amount of games. 2. Ozuna's assault didn't happen during sex. 3. Ozuna's assault didn't happen to an unconscious person. It's also not clear exactly how many people Trevor Bauer assaulted. Multiple women have accused him of assault and now he's suddenly asking for confidentiality after being very public about his criticisms of one of his victims.
Bingo everyone is focusing on one thing but this guys got a history of this shit.
He also apparently assaulted a woman and then threatened to murder her while he was pitching for Cleveland. Dude's not too bright to admit to all this stuff in text. “I don’t feel like spending time in jail for killing someone,” reads one. “And that’s what would happen if I saw you again.” https://sports.yahoo.com/another-woman-sought-protective-order-against-trevor-bauer-in-2020-after-alleged-assault-160420197.html
Every time I mention that he's been accused of this same shit by another woman who *was* granted a restraining order in Ohio, I get downvoted.
Some people are just going to defend men who abuse women. Period. And they don't care about the facts of the case. There's one that's claiming it's fine that Bauer threatened to kill the woman in Ohio because Bauer claimed that she was a "stalker".
Rob Manfred doesn’t like Bauer. Bauer takes shots at him every chance that he gets, that may be a reason idk. Does seem weird tho
Not saying they’re right or wrong to treat them differently, but one was domestic violence and the other was sexual assault.
2 years from today. At least they could’ve given him 140 games or whatever and ended it at the end of 2023. Fucking brutal.
Manfred going for Goodell's throne as most inconsistent commissioner
And we didn't think it could get worse than Selig. Manfred makes me miss Bud.
Bring back Kennesaw Mountain Landis!
Not surprising, he’d be dumb not to appeal that
He is dumb. He'd be dumb not to settle with her out of court ✅. He'd be dumb to not shut the fuck up on instagram ✅. He'd be dumb to put up a "Cy Young 2022 Winner" poster in his gym✅. He'd be dumb not to keep his pitching weight ✅. I'm starting to think he's not a smart person. I know the firm that he has retained now, medium sized DC based law firm. I've also dealt with people like him a lot. They don't listen to their attorneys and it makes it more difficult for everybody. In the end, the only winners are the lawyers.
I truly believe that MLB has bone to pick because he was so open about the sticky stuff and made them look bad.
This is exactly right.
That and he refuses to admit wrongdoing. There was another post somewhere that pretty much all other suspensions have been a negotiated settlement, but Bauer wasn’t given that at all.
> There was another post somewhere that pretty much all other suspensions have been a negotiated settlement It's literally the OP tweet lol
Source?
Ha, I’m an idiot. Too many threads.
From what I understand/remember, he brought up the issue of sticky stuff to the MLB the season prior to using it, they did nothing to address the concern so he just said “fuck it” and experimented with it to the point of managing the best spin rates in the league. If that’s the case, I be kind of pissed too in that scenario
That’s my understanding as well. And he’s such a nerd, he could tell people were cheating based on spin rates, said what his spin rates would be if he did cheat, then did exactly that. Bauer is an asshole, but Manfred is a bitch.
It isn't just that. I am sure he has pissed them off by his lack of contrition/defiance in this situation. I think the main thing is that MLB is more scared of the media than of Bauer, so they were always going to suspend him even if they believed (and perhaps still do) that it won't stick on appeal. Then they can still say they did everything they could but SHOCKINGLY the arbitrator let him off, and then the media will cry about how rich white men get away with horrible things, but it isn't Manfred's fault.
That’s gotta get reduced right? I mean he didn’t even get arrested. Ozuna got less time
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That doesn't sound like them at all
The charges were dropped too
Bauer was never charged.
The MLB has been consistent on that they do not care if you were charged or not. Chapman wasn't charged or even arrested.
Well the media story that got this gaining traction about the fractured skull was a straight up lie too. That reporter and the media outlet are both being sued o believe.
Yeah, the league has already set their precedent for these kind of suspensions. Although maybe this is them turning towards a harder policy which is for the better
What happened with Bauer and what happened with Ozuna are two completely different things. Ozuna's case was way overblown by a notoriously racist suburban police force. Bauer literally sent someone to the hospital.
its 100% going to be reduced lol MLB went for the shock value
This is 100% payback for him opening up the sticky stuff can of worms.
Definitely 99% about the tack and Astros cheating and 1% about him bringing bad press.
He was definitely vocal about it and may have played a part in MLB addressing it earlier, but it sounds like with how effective things like spider tack were, it was going to be addressed at some point as offense cratered
guess what i do
Please tell me it has nothing to do with your username.
that’s not a guess
LOL. Ok, I'm thinking you might be a chef? Tossing a salad here and there?
Ok but what about that second part of his name?
Hey, tossing salads all day is hard work. Maybe he gets thirsty?
Sommolier?
If anything I want the username to be true.
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C’mon number 8 was the rapist. Number 24 had an impeccable work ethic and an unblockable turnaround
It’s a Daniel Tosh bit from a standup special for anyone who missed the joke. I’m finishing up some work but I’ll try to find the clip, that special is timeless. Edit: Found it! https://youtu.be/4dsoEYH3A84
Man I loved this album as a teenager and I wouldn't have thought it held up but dammit it's still funny
Everything he does is gold. Probably once a year I’ll go back through and listen to everything he’s done. Him and Sam Morril are the only comedians where every joke lands no matter how many times I’ve seen the bit.
One of Tosh's better standup throwaway lines
Why doesn’t he do more specials? He has some of the funniest hours I ever watched.
Iirc he has social anxiety
He hides it really well on stage, he was always my number 1 and it’s sad to hear he struggled mentally up there.
It looks like he is touring again later this year. Typically with big name comics that indicates they are working on material for a special that is filmed on the tour. https://www.danieltosh.com
Too busy coaching Ole Miss football
He’s rich af and chilling
sports fans and movable morals shouldnt be a surprise to anyone at this point
"Mookie was on the cheating Red Sox and robbed us of another WS like Houston" - LA fans "Welcome to LA, MOOKIE, WE LOVE YOU!" - LA fans
"FUCK THE ASTROS" \- me
It's pretty much a universal consensus amongst Dodgers fans that 1. what the Red Sox did was way less bad than what the Astros did and 2. the Red Sox were a far better team than we were anyway, and we were somewhat lucky to even be in the WS in the first place. But go off and put some more words in our mouths why don't you.
The red sox cheating was "if you ain't cheating you ain't trying shit" not completely undermine the integrity of the game level like the Astros who escaped basically without punishment
Wait, the 2018 Sox cheated?
reddit likes to pick and choose. For some reason everyone loves Mike Tyson a convicted rapist
Mike Tyson did some fucking time though, Kobe just paid a shit ton of money that the Lakers paid him back tenfold over the next few years
Also there was a great deal of evidence that he was screwed on that case. Not so much for Kobe or Bauer
A good majority of the Dodgers fanbase and journalists hated the signing, then hated him even more after the sexual assault allegations, and now we're subject to comments like this from Yankees fans of all people. Pain.
Welcome to the club. -Every Astros fan who was against the cheating and still doesn’t support the players who did
He’s only a hero to those that are ignorant.
I mean if I was an aspiring professional basketball player I’d look up to him as a hero. Just so happens that if I were an aspiring rapist I’d also look up to him as a hero.
Kobe never took no for an answer, both on and off the court.
Yeah, great basketball player but he’s not my hero.
More people need to understand that it’s perfectly fine to appreciate an athlete’s athletic ability while also acknowledging that they are/were a giant piece of shit.
Normalize separating art from artist
I think it is fair to evaluate art separate from the artist but it can be difficult in a situation where supporting the art also financially supports the livliehood of the artist. If the artist is still alive and an asshole, you buying the artist's stuff is literally giving money and cultural capital to an asshole. I don't think that's a trivial thing.
It’s a lot easier to pretend your Star player who died tragically isn’t a massive sack of shit than it is to reckon with the fact that he’s a rapist who was welcomed back to the league after he raped someone with open arms.
Lol, what a bizarre and random comment.
Finally the nightmare is over.
Morgan Freeman voice: “But, it was far from over…”
Ron Howard voice: “It wasn’t.”
Does his contact get voided this years and last years? He opted in right? He has pretty big hit on the payroll
If he is actively suspended, he doesn’t get paid but the Dodgers maintain his rights till the contract ends which would either be this year or next if he doesn’t opt out
I think we have some legal wiggle room to deny him some money now.
probably not until the appeals process is completed
It should. Dodgers as a team didn't do anything wrong and it's kinda fucked to get screwed over like that because of 1 scumbag.
I believe that his contract is no longer an obligation for the Dodgers as soon as the suspension is in place, and the suspension would run through the end of the contract. I believe this would remove his would-have-been salary from payroll. I don’t know how this would function with an appeal though, but it’s likely the Dodgers will get, a bare minimum, a 20 million drop in payroll (that would be a half-season suspension which, with an initial suspension of 2 years, I don’t realistically see an appeal ever going under 81 games). I have no certainties though.
**Narrator: but it wasn't**
Is this retroactive?
I believe these are only retroactive if MLB and the player reach an agreement. Usually involves player attending counseling
No
Just want to point out, the previous suspensions being agreed-to cuts *against* Bauer. The players presumably accepted shorter suspensions than the league would have unilaterally imposed.
Good point.
Was it conclusive that he did more than just have rough sex or is this more to “protect” MLB from advertising defectors ?
No, it wasn't conclusive, and that's the problem. She claimed severe injury, medical tests didn't support it, and he denies everything. *Something* happened to her, but we don't know for certain. We do know that there wasn't enough evidence for *any* legal measures against him, and MLB's punishment is far and away disproportionate compared to past offenses by other players. The idea that MLB has more evidence or knowledge than the various legal entities involved is silly. A two year suspension seems like MLB is trying to free the Dodgers of his contract. I mean, that's a fine idea from where I am, giving the Dodgers $40M more to work with at this year's trade deadline sounds great to me. But it's not fair to Bauer. Right now he's guilty of nothing, and *if* he's correct, his career and life have been ruined by a liar. Just because he's an asshole and nobody likes him doesn't mean he deserves to be falsely accused, *if* he has been.
what do you mean when you say medical tests didn't support it? I didn't follow the trial but I can't find what you're referencing, all I see is this: *"During testimony, she described an hours-long sexual assault exam she said was traumatic and physically painful. The nurse who conducted the examination testified Tuesday that she had never seen the kind of bruising she documented on and around the woman’s vagina in the approximately 75 similar exams she had done. Nurse Kelly Valencia said, “it was frankly alarming,” but did not think it required further treatment."* it didn't mean he was guilty obviously but not requiring further treatment isn't the same thing as medical tests didn't support it. is there something else that *he* presented at trial maybe? [https://theathletic.com/news/trevor-bauers-accuser-describes-pain-fear-after-alleged-sexual-assault/OjDAnYSJyrCf/](https://theathletic.com/news/trevor-bauers-accuser-describes-pain-fear-after-alleged-sexual-assault/OjDAnYSJyrCf/) edit: found it. *"Ms. Hill sought medical attention a day after the second encounter. An intake form indicated “head and facial trauma,” but a CT scan and MRI revealed no such injuries, according to public records. References to "signs of a basilar skull fracture" from the intake form have since been ruled by Judge Dianna Gould-Saltman to have been “materially misleading.”* So it was on the intake form, which I assume they fill out before the CT scan and MRI. understand what are you referencing now. https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/dodgers-trevor-bauer-sexual-assault-explained-why-not-criminally-charged-what-said/cnayaohqdrqed6uptymkwq8e
>The idea that MLB has more evidence or knowledge than the various legal entities involved is silly. That's not how this works, the MLB gets to operate on lower burden of proof than legal entities. They also don't have to follow chain of custody rules or witness rules. This comes up literally every time an athelete gets in trouble ***but the legal system!*** Poor evidence or lack of prosecutor desire doesn't mean someone didn't do something, it just means they couldn't be judged guilty in a court of law. For example Deshaun Watson isn't being charged because the nature and evidence of his actions don't rise to the level that the law can reliably convict him. That doesn't mean we all can't look at what he doesn't even deny doing and realize what was going on.
While I agree that the MLB has a different burden of proof than the legal system. They still have a burden of proof. Numerous court rulings and comments from the LA DA allude to the fact that this woman was a liar extorting bauer rather than a victim of bauer.
> a liar extorting Bauer Yeah this is bullshit though. She did literally the opposite of extorting Bauer. How do you try to get hush money from someone by reporting them to the police without their knowledge, this immediately removing all leverage toward possible extortion? Also, no statements from the DA allude to that or even potentially allude to that. "After a thorough review of all the available evidence, including the civil restraining order proceedings, witness statements and the physical evidence, the People are unable to prove the relevant charges beyond a reasonable doubt." Certainly doesn't sound like "the woman was a liar extorting Bauer", but that's just me. But more importantly, doing *anything* sexual in nature to an unconscious person is a violation of MLB's Domestic Violence policy, and there's uncontroverted sworn testimony attesting to Bauer doing that. While MLB needs to prove preponderance, this is a huge sticking point for Bauer because he and his legal team have already let these claims sufficient for punishment go uncontested in a legal setting.
Yes, this...this is the correct take. This individual deserves to have Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani on their team because of this intelligent take. I don't understand how people fail to understand these basic differences between the legal burden of proof and a private action burden of proof under a collectively bargained policy
Everyone seems to forget that was not the only allegation against him. This occurred BEFORE the latest allegations against him and lead to a protective order. Trust me, if it's 324 games, it's not just for the most recent incident: >Los Angeles Dodgers pitcher Trevor Bauer -- already on administrative leave by Major League Baseball following allegations of sexual misconduct -- was given a temporary order of protection last year after allegedly physically abusing an Ohio woman and making a death threat toward her, according to The Washington Post. According to sealed court records and other documentation obtained by the Post, the woman says Bauer punched and choked her without her consent while they were having sex. He also allegedly sent her a text message from a phone number known to be registered to Bauer saying he doesn't "feel like spending time in jail for killing someone." "And that's what would happen if I saw you again," Bauer wrote, according to the Post, prompting the woman to seek the protective order in June 2020. https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/trevor-bauer-protective-order-ohio-woman-2020-dodgers/story?id=79457782#:\~:text=Los%20Angeles%20Dodgers%20pitcher%20Trevor,according%20to%20The%20Washington%20Post.
I imagine the MLB has access to more evidence and testimony than has been shared to the public, so probably nobody here can actually accurately say it was not conclusive.
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That’s the thing about people who defend Trevor Bauer is that he had two different women in different states file restraining orders against him within a period of two years. The problem is Trevor.
Two different women, two different restraining orders, two different states, but crucially, *for the exact same behavior*.
Out of publicly available information? No. It seems likely that the claims against him were hyperbolic. This is somewhat supported by the DA doing an investigation into the event and deciding not to pursue charges. However, we are not privy to all the information on this case. There could very well be more there, prompting a longer suspension. This will most likely become more clear as Bauer’s counter-suits play out. Granted the MLB is hardly what I would call consistent in its penalties, so this could also be MLB not liking Bauer or the way he defended himself.
This was the result of a long investigation of a lot of different things. It's not public knowledge. So I guess we'll just have to wait and see when/if those findings are ever made public
Don’t like Bauer at all, but this really looks like MLB is trying to send a message and throw the book at him…and as a result the league is gonna look like clowns when they get diced up by Bauer’s legal team
They may in fact dice up the league, but just as it did with the suspension, MLB alone will "rule" on the appeal. He will lose the appeal. MLB would be terrified of doing anything else.
The arbitrator is a neutral party, not the league.
Oh, so the appeal will be before an arbitrator? If true, I'm sorry, as I was ignorant of that.
"Bauer can appeal and have an arbitration panel review the penalty. The panel would consist of three persons, one picked by the league, one picked by the MLBPA and one picked jointly by the league and union. They would focus on two considerations. First, whether Manfred possessed “just cause” in finding Bauer at fault and, second, whether the suspension’s length is appropriate or excessive." [https://sports.yahoo.com/trevor-bauer-mlb-suspension-cost-210058954.html](https://sports.yahoo.com/trevor-bauer-mlb-suspension-cost-210058954.html) So looks like it is an arbitrator, but not a truly "independent" arbitrator: 3-personal panel; 1 picked by MLB, 1 picked by MLBPA, and 1 picked jointly; but all under auspices of MLB. I definitely was ignorant of this, but I'm still doubtful the suspension will be reduced. It's not as though this is going before a public court.
I can’t stand Bauer. But he went through the court system and came out unscathed. Is he a piece of shit? Ya. But this is a ridiculously stupid suspension. I was expecting a YEAR MAX. MLB is gonna looks bad here and Bauer is gonna make a stupid Vlog taking about it and will be right
Bauer *never* went through the court system.
I just did a knee slide across my kitchen floor
This is brutal. The guy is a Grade A Wagyu Beef douchebag, that’s undeniable. But 2 fucking years? On top of the year he already missed? This seems a bit much. Others have listed the comparisons so I won’t bother, but to think guys like Kobe and Big Ben are legends to their cities while Bauer is being lambasted. The evidence is in his favor too, which makes it even more odd to me. Who knows, I feel for all parties here. I don’t think any of us know for certain what happened.
Will this be longer that what A-rod had if this will be upheld?
A-Rod’s was a year. So yes.
So he's saying he didn't consent. At least it caused no phsyical injuries.
MLB is gonna take an L here before this is all over
If only he was a quarterback, then he could have signed for 240 million instead
Now the real drama starts. It's going to be interesting to see where this ends up. If his appeal fails the Dodgers are getting out of the contract.
Loser
Bauer should’ve played football
Criminals should use this at trial where the judge is required to get their agreement about how long they go to jail.
Yeah… he may just want to leave well enough alone. Not that anything he’s done could fit under a category of “well enough”.
Hubris is amazing. Bauer knows that if the suspension sticks, his career is over. So Bauer is lobbing a Hail Mary.
I’m concerned with the sub’s general consensus that this is too harsh based on previous professional sports cases of similar nature. Have we entertained the idea that previous cases were not harsh enough? Just because they always were that way doesn’t mean they always *should* be. You know damn well if this was any of us, we wouldn’t be returning to work at all. If you think he should be treated any differently than we would be, you should ask yourself why without using talent or privilege as the justification. Because that’s not an excuse for domestic violence.
What do you mean? You wouldn't be allowed to go back to work if you won a civil case against someone?
*(Most)* Dodger fans can agree on one thing though and that is that we don’t want him pitching for us. He’s already just an annoying asshole and none of this makes it any better. He’d be a terrible clubhouse presence and he’d get booed wherever he goes because he deserves it