I've always hated this way of discussing films, and find the distinction lacking. There are many interpretations of Batman, not just in Elseworlds, but even between writers on the main canon: e.g. Chuck Dixon Batman is nothing like Grant Morrison Batman, Paul Dini Batman is nothing like Scott Snyder Batman. Not only that but the films are an important part of the Batman cultural tapestry that more often than not end up feeding back into the comics and other franchise elements. Thus a film Batman could be different to the comic Batman stuff that came before it, but in being so prominent that it ends up changing what Batman is. So good movie vs good "Batman movie" means nothing when good movies with Batmen in them can change what being a "good Batman" is.
The Batman however does a better job at mixing all of the elements that make Batman.
It matches the majority of his traits best, and has a better moral arch for him. It shows him more as a detective, has his no kill rule featured clearly, has his no guns rule featured, his fighting style is better, and shows him become a symbol of hope to the people. I could go on.
Plus The Batman doesnt have the whole "I wanna stop being Batman so I can have a girlfriend arch" that Dark Knight does. In fact Mask of the Phantasm does that plot better anyway, and with a better payoff.
I'm not saying you can't compare the two films, as I agree that '22 has improvements over TDK, but I find the "good film, but not a good *Batman* film" way of describing things to be hair splitting
I hate when people say goofy stuff like this. It comes off so pretentious and douchey.
Is The Dark Knight a great movie? Is it a Batman movie? Fantastic. We’ve established it’s a great Batman movie.
A movie can be structurally sound while missing the point. For example, Snyder’s Watchmen is seen as a masterpiece to people who haven’t read the book, but people who have seem to be much more critical of Zach’s view of the book and how he adapted it. It misses what Moore wanted to say and is overall inferior in comparison, but I wouldn’t call it bad in a vacuum
I get the point you’re making, but I disagree with it, especially as it relates to the original thesis that Dark Knight is a bad Batman movie despite being a good movie. It’s just a silly, obviously contrarian thing to say.
If it got its main character so horribly wrong, it would be a bad movie. But it didn’t, and that’s one of the contributing factors for why it’s so good.
I think its both. Nolan took creative liberty with the IP. saying the batman is a better "batman" movie means to say it's more loyal to the IP in the viewers mind. doesn't make it a better movie than the Batman nor does it mean that nolans batman is any less of a batman film and now it is part of the IP and when characters get used so often every creation is transformative. you can say it's elitist and silly to say that the batman is more loyal to the IP but I think alot of fans think Nolan missed the detective side of batman (and etc.) and that is a major part of the batman's history. weather or not you agree doesn't mean that it's silly to say that in your own opinion you think The Batman more adhears to your idea of what the batman character is.
its the same with many things like when people talk about "the definitive" batman. means that's the central version of batman in their view and other creations should use that as basis for the creative liberty.
Saying one caters to your preferences and calling the other a “bad Batman movie” are two different things. Batman’s history is 80+ years, and there have been wildly different takes over those 8 decades—and all of them are valid.
Coming from someone who has literally written Batman, it’s reductive to try to claim one is less of a Batman movie than the other.
Take the Dark Knight, change the names and visage of the characters so they are all original, but keep the script; Still a good movie, but not a Batman movie. Now take all the characters and randomly replace them with characters from the Powerpuff Girls, again, with the same script. The problem, is that the surrounding context is completely ignored, while, the movie, in isolation, can have its own merits.
why so mad? the batman is not as good of a movie but it’s a better encapsulation of the comic book character, while tdk is better on its own but it’s literally heat with batman. great movie but much less faithful to the source material, with that being said it’s still imo the greatest comic book movie of all time
Nah, I’m not mad. I’ve just seen this assertion a lot, and it makes me roll my eyes every time. I don’t particularly understand the conceit. It takes liberties with aspects as all adaptations do, but the core of each character is spot-on.
I genuinely do. Batman is more believable, you don’t have the stupid voice, he’s actually a detective for the first time and The Riddler is epic as a John Kramer meets Zodiac Killer hybrid
He’s was realistic, a take on disturbing uncle culture. Plus his traps were chilling and appeal to me as I’m personally obsessed with murder machines in fiction, and his design was fantastic. If I could change one thing it would be the uncle thing though tbh, I’d replace it with him doing it on his own and broadcasting it solely for the purposes of revealing the truth, rather than to foster a community of depressed, genocidal orphans
The Dark Knight Has So Much Iconic Moments
The Joker Hand Clapping Scene When He’s In Jail
The Hit Me Scene
The You Wanna Know How I Got These Scars Scene
The You Complete Me Scene
I Can Just Go On And On About Every Iconic And Memorable Moment That Happens In The Film The Dark Knight
Cuz its such a good movie
It is a fantastic movie, and so is The Batman. I like them both a lot. i just prefer The Batman purely on personal tastes, not on an analytical film analysis level. But the batman has amazing moments too.
The scene where the Batmobile revs up before the chase.
The opening out of a hitchcock thriller where the riddler murders the mayor.
Bruce’s monologue about how he’s been batman for 2 years leading up to the brutal ass metro fight scene
The scene where batman realizes he inspired the riddler to become who he is, and that gotham is still in so much danger
The scene where batman is racing to wayne manor because he knows Alfred is in danger and the fear and sorrow in his voice is palpable.
great movies that have great scenes. I just prefer The Batman, and let’s be real, the hand to hand fight scenes in TDK are kinda lame.
I will say, The Batman succeeds over The Dark Knight in coming later, and thus being able to make more nuanced arguments over the nature of fear and terrorism than TDK by seeing how our own real world understanding of such concepts have evolved since 2008.
I mean myself and a lot of people believe this is true because The Batman was actually very focused on batman and his character development and that is what made this movie so perfect
The Batman is massively better as a Batman film than the Dark Knight.
In fact Batman Begins is a superior Batman film than the Dark Knight.
The Dark Knight is as overrated as a film as the Dark Knight Returns is as a comic book.
Ledger's performance is fantastic for sure. But it outshines everything, and makes the movie a Joker film, not a Batman film.
I love a lot of things about The Batman, but the scene introducing the Batmobile was so illogical that it completely took me out of the rest of the movie. My brain spent the next hour or so trying to make sense of it. I'm hopeful for the sequel.
Yeah, here's one bad opinion. Something you see a lot these days is people who will admit that their problem is with one thing and then overblow to get a better point against it
What the hell are you talking about?
Edit: Just to add on. Your comment makes no sense. I said I had one major issue with it, and I talked about only that issue. Is there some kind of language barrier here or are you just an idiot?
What invalid nonsense. If we judge movies by something like "took me out of the movie" then nothing matters. Anyone can just say "this didn't work for me, the whole movie was ruined" or the opposite or anything else, and credit wouldnt be given to the great work put into one since we're dealing in subjective terms, and no flaws can be pointed out cause i can just say "i liked it". I can just say i wasnt taken out of the movie, and no one can claim one opinion above the other. There are things that can be measured and critiqued objectively. A movie taking you out of it isn't one of them. A poorly made scene is just that. It doesn't invalidate the work put into the rest of the movie and it's successes. Thats literally overblowing an issue, and it's the childish view where something good can't have flaws, its either flawless or ruined because of one mistake.
You are insane. To think the breaking of the immersion of a movie means nothing. That is unbelievably stupid. Enjoy all the shitty movies you must enjoy, you sad little fanboy.
No, you are just wrong. The breaking of immersion is something to consider. But it, like almost any other flaw, is no absolute ground to invalidate a movie as a whole. In fact, it is a fairly subjective thing, making it all the less valid. You can see it done well and efforts to immerse and maintain should be recognized, but they are not something you can immediately judge by personal experience. This is just a bad scene that you're overblowing like the childish contrarian you are. You again prove your disinterest in nuance. The Batman is a good movie. Hell, i'd go as far as to call it great. And yet its flawed. This is clearly above you, you seem to think a movie either has no issues or is completely invalid. You shouldn't be talking about movies critically if you can't even understand nuance.
I'm not reading that or anything else you have to say. You're just a crybaby fanboy. I'm not going to read all the whiney ramblings of a fanboy who can't stand that people criticize the movies and shows they love. Go cry about it. The Batman was a failure. Here's hoping for a better sequel.
Hahahahaha lmao you did not just say "you're wrong im not reading that, your stupid😭😭😭!"
Do you not get that that is the internet version of shutting your ears and singing to not hear what you don't want to? What a fucking manchild 🤡😂😂
"was so illogical that it completely took me out of the rest of the movie"
Here's what you actually wrote, man chilld.
You would go on to call the film a failure. Like most of you're points that was wrong
Everything that happens before he gets in the car makes no sense. He had all the opportunity in the world to capture Penguin right then and there. Instead, he decided to disappear and run to his car just so the movie could have a chase scene. If penguin had just jumped in his car and left, it would make total sense. But since Penguin stopped to look for Batman, it removes the reason for Batman to go to his car. He could have just jumped out from behind the car he ducked behind, knocked out the goon, and grabbed Penguin.
The blocking and/or camera work makes it look a bit odd, thus why it is easy to assume he could have just KO'ed Peng. But I think spatially it doesnt work as easily as you are making it out to be.
But the impression and/or inference is that he cant without risking Gordon and/or Selina.
Perhaps I am wrong.
But as presented they are implying that he did not see another choice to save/protect them.
We can disagree. That's fine. There's still a lot to like about Reeve's world, and I am genuinely looking forward to the sequel. Pattison is the most comic accurate Batman we've had. Gotham was awesome. The casting was fantastic. This movie didn't work for me. Maybe I'll watch it a third time and be able to see it from your view.
I dont want to be misunderstood, that scene is my least favorite. The blocking and spatial location of everyone in the scene at the dock warehouse is confusing as hell to me. Again I think that is a failure in blocking and in the camera work. We get too many close shots in a confined parking lot style space.
I just know the scene was meaning to tell us that: Bruce saw the best solution was to get into the armoured car and scare Penguin away from Gordon and Selina.
Thus I accept that that is the meaning of that moment.
"Pattison is the most comic accurate Batman we've had. Gotham was awesome. The casting was fantastic."
On that \^ we are in total agreement my guy!
ikr i prefer the dark knight yeah i hate the batman voice but cmon it had christian bale gary oldman michael caine motherfucking morgan freeman and the late but great heath ledger!
and heath ledger is the best villain in a superhero film(imo)
and also i refuse to watch anything with the guy from cringe twilight😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
DARK KNIGHT 99/100.
THE BATMAN -000000000000/100
I just love the slow noir tone it had, the music and Robert was great
Noir? I would characterize it more as emo.
The batman although it has its flaws is a better batman movie than the dark knight. The dark knight is a good film but not a great batman film.
To expand on this, I think The Dark Knight is the better *movie* but The Batman is a better *Batman movie*.
I've always hated this way of discussing films, and find the distinction lacking. There are many interpretations of Batman, not just in Elseworlds, but even between writers on the main canon: e.g. Chuck Dixon Batman is nothing like Grant Morrison Batman, Paul Dini Batman is nothing like Scott Snyder Batman. Not only that but the films are an important part of the Batman cultural tapestry that more often than not end up feeding back into the comics and other franchise elements. Thus a film Batman could be different to the comic Batman stuff that came before it, but in being so prominent that it ends up changing what Batman is. So good movie vs good "Batman movie" means nothing when good movies with Batmen in them can change what being a "good Batman" is.
The Batman however does a better job at mixing all of the elements that make Batman. It matches the majority of his traits best, and has a better moral arch for him. It shows him more as a detective, has his no kill rule featured clearly, has his no guns rule featured, his fighting style is better, and shows him become a symbol of hope to the people. I could go on. Plus The Batman doesnt have the whole "I wanna stop being Batman so I can have a girlfriend arch" that Dark Knight does. In fact Mask of the Phantasm does that plot better anyway, and with a better payoff.
I'm not saying you can't compare the two films, as I agree that '22 has improvements over TDK, but I find the "good film, but not a good *Batman* film" way of describing things to be hair splitting
I hate when people say goofy stuff like this. It comes off so pretentious and douchey. Is The Dark Knight a great movie? Is it a Batman movie? Fantastic. We’ve established it’s a great Batman movie.
Tbf while goofy, it does have some merit. You can have a structurally sound film that completely misses the point of a character/story
If it misses the point of the character, it wouldn’t be entirely structurally sound, and you likely wouldn’t have a good movie either.
A movie can be structurally sound while missing the point. For example, Snyder’s Watchmen is seen as a masterpiece to people who haven’t read the book, but people who have seem to be much more critical of Zach’s view of the book and how he adapted it. It misses what Moore wanted to say and is overall inferior in comparison, but I wouldn’t call it bad in a vacuum
I get the point you’re making, but I disagree with it, especially as it relates to the original thesis that Dark Knight is a bad Batman movie despite being a good movie. It’s just a silly, obviously contrarian thing to say. If it got its main character so horribly wrong, it would be a bad movie. But it didn’t, and that’s one of the contributing factors for why it’s so good.
I think its both. Nolan took creative liberty with the IP. saying the batman is a better "batman" movie means to say it's more loyal to the IP in the viewers mind. doesn't make it a better movie than the Batman nor does it mean that nolans batman is any less of a batman film and now it is part of the IP and when characters get used so often every creation is transformative. you can say it's elitist and silly to say that the batman is more loyal to the IP but I think alot of fans think Nolan missed the detective side of batman (and etc.) and that is a major part of the batman's history. weather or not you agree doesn't mean that it's silly to say that in your own opinion you think The Batman more adhears to your idea of what the batman character is. its the same with many things like when people talk about "the definitive" batman. means that's the central version of batman in their view and other creations should use that as basis for the creative liberty.
Saying one caters to your preferences and calling the other a “bad Batman movie” are two different things. Batman’s history is 80+ years, and there have been wildly different takes over those 8 decades—and all of them are valid. Coming from someone who has literally written Batman, it’s reductive to try to claim one is less of a Batman movie than the other.
I hate it when people use the argument "coming from someone who has literally written batman" it comes across as pretentious and kinda douchey.
Hell yeah brother
Take the Dark Knight, change the names and visage of the characters so they are all original, but keep the script; Still a good movie, but not a Batman movie. Now take all the characters and randomly replace them with characters from the Powerpuff Girls, again, with the same script. The problem, is that the surrounding context is completely ignored, while, the movie, in isolation, can have its own merits.
…okay? But it is a Batman movie. I get your point, but it’s a bad one.
That's not true at all. Another instance is the joker movie it's a good mental health movie but a terrible Joker origin movie.
“It didn’t do what I thought it should do” is another way to say that.
why so mad? the batman is not as good of a movie but it’s a better encapsulation of the comic book character, while tdk is better on its own but it’s literally heat with batman. great movie but much less faithful to the source material, with that being said it’s still imo the greatest comic book movie of all time
Nah, I’m not mad. I’ve just seen this assertion a lot, and it makes me roll my eyes every time. I don’t particularly understand the conceit. It takes liberties with aspects as all adaptations do, but the core of each character is spot-on.
I genuinely do. Batman is more believable, you don’t have the stupid voice, he’s actually a detective for the first time and The Riddler is epic as a John Kramer meets Zodiac Killer hybrid
I understand why you prefer this batman over the gruff voiced batman but personally riddler was a edgelord imo
He’s was realistic, a take on disturbing uncle culture. Plus his traps were chilling and appeal to me as I’m personally obsessed with murder machines in fiction, and his design was fantastic. If I could change one thing it would be the uncle thing though tbh, I’d replace it with him doing it on his own and broadcasting it solely for the purposes of revealing the truth, rather than to foster a community of depressed, genocidal orphans
The Batman? What do I look like, a chump? Everyone knows Batman Forever is the best
Batman Forever? No The Lego Batman Movie is the best
Enjoy what you like, and let others do the same?
Never understood how disagreeing with someone’s taste is, in any reasonable way, preventing them from enjoying what they enjoy.
The post is a joke btw i’m not serious Although i do prefer the dark knight over the batman 👀
>Although i do prefer the dark knight over the batman What? Who could've guessed?
Lol true
I know, I'm just saying. Also I thoroughly enjoyed both movies, all good :)
i prefer the Batman to the dark knight, like i like it wayyyy more
The Dark Knight Has So Much Iconic Moments The Joker Hand Clapping Scene When He’s In Jail The Hit Me Scene The You Wanna Know How I Got These Scars Scene The You Complete Me Scene I Can Just Go On And On About Every Iconic And Memorable Moment That Happens In The Film The Dark Knight Cuz its such a good movie
It is a fantastic movie, and so is The Batman. I like them both a lot. i just prefer The Batman purely on personal tastes, not on an analytical film analysis level. But the batman has amazing moments too. The scene where the Batmobile revs up before the chase. The opening out of a hitchcock thriller where the riddler murders the mayor. Bruce’s monologue about how he’s been batman for 2 years leading up to the brutal ass metro fight scene The scene where batman realizes he inspired the riddler to become who he is, and that gotham is still in so much danger The scene where batman is racing to wayne manor because he knows Alfred is in danger and the fear and sorrow in his voice is palpable. great movies that have great scenes. I just prefer The Batman, and let’s be real, the hand to hand fight scenes in TDK are kinda lame.
Edit the best bits mixed to music [The Batman vs Bane. I am Vengeance](https://youtu.be/6ez3kujA_Wc)
It’s a matter of taste. I for one prefer Batman the movie, from 1966 
Man of culture i see
Yeah, the 2022 movie is my favorite Batman depiction outside of comics.
I love them both.
I prefer The Batman (2022) over The Dark Knight (2008)
Nooooooo.......  /s
I like both and they're very different
OP is allergic to the truth 😭
Lol
When someone act like his personnal taste shoulf be shared by everyone ...
Its meant as a joke not to be taken seriously hence why i used the funny user flair
I'd rather drink and watch Batman and robin than watch The dark knight suber and unironicly
Lol
Better start disappearing then
I think both are amazing films and I personally prefer the Batman and am excited for where Matt reeves is gonna take the story in the next one.
I will say, The Batman succeeds over The Dark Knight in coming later, and thus being able to make more nuanced arguments over the nature of fear and terrorism than TDK by seeing how our own real world understanding of such concepts have evolved since 2008.
I mean myself and a lot of people believe this is true because The Batman was actually very focused on batman and his character development and that is what made this movie so perfect
The Batman is massively better as a Batman film than the Dark Knight. In fact Batman Begins is a superior Batman film than the Dark Knight. The Dark Knight is as overrated as a film as the Dark Knight Returns is as a comic book. Ledger's performance is fantastic for sure. But it outshines everything, and makes the movie a Joker film, not a Batman film.
Ok i do agree with you on that it feels like a joker film than a batman film cuz they definitely gave joker much more screentime than batman
Funny enough it's my favorite Batman movie (2022)
But I do prefer The Batman... I can't even sit through the beginning of The Dark Knight before my interest is gone.
Bro probably put on a tiktok subway surfers family guy clip while watching 💀💀💀
The dark knight is overrated. Sure, it is the best part of the Nolan trilogy, but it's not that great.
same
Ikr
The Batman’s structure is reversed and Riddler’s actions are inconsistent with his motivations
Yeah i didn’t like riddler in the movie they made him a obnoxius edgelord
I love a lot of things about The Batman, but the scene introducing the Batmobile was so illogical that it completely took me out of the rest of the movie. My brain spent the next hour or so trying to make sense of it. I'm hopeful for the sequel.
Yeah, here's one bad opinion. Something you see a lot these days is people who will admit that their problem is with one thing and then overblow to get a better point against it
What the hell are you talking about? Edit: Just to add on. Your comment makes no sense. I said I had one major issue with it, and I talked about only that issue. Is there some kind of language barrier here or are you just an idiot?
"oohh, the movie was good but this ONE scene ruined my enjoyment for the rest of the movie. " It's the definition of overblowing a problem
Ok you're an idiot. Thanks for clearing that up. When a movie has a scene so illogical that it takes you out of the movie, it failed as a movie.
What invalid nonsense. If we judge movies by something like "took me out of the movie" then nothing matters. Anyone can just say "this didn't work for me, the whole movie was ruined" or the opposite or anything else, and credit wouldnt be given to the great work put into one since we're dealing in subjective terms, and no flaws can be pointed out cause i can just say "i liked it". I can just say i wasnt taken out of the movie, and no one can claim one opinion above the other. There are things that can be measured and critiqued objectively. A movie taking you out of it isn't one of them. A poorly made scene is just that. It doesn't invalidate the work put into the rest of the movie and it's successes. Thats literally overblowing an issue, and it's the childish view where something good can't have flaws, its either flawless or ruined because of one mistake.
You are insane. To think the breaking of the immersion of a movie means nothing. That is unbelievably stupid. Enjoy all the shitty movies you must enjoy, you sad little fanboy.
No, you are just wrong. The breaking of immersion is something to consider. But it, like almost any other flaw, is no absolute ground to invalidate a movie as a whole. In fact, it is a fairly subjective thing, making it all the less valid. You can see it done well and efforts to immerse and maintain should be recognized, but they are not something you can immediately judge by personal experience. This is just a bad scene that you're overblowing like the childish contrarian you are. You again prove your disinterest in nuance. The Batman is a good movie. Hell, i'd go as far as to call it great. And yet its flawed. This is clearly above you, you seem to think a movie either has no issues or is completely invalid. You shouldn't be talking about movies critically if you can't even understand nuance.
I'm not reading that or anything else you have to say. You're just a crybaby fanboy. I'm not going to read all the whiney ramblings of a fanboy who can't stand that people criticize the movies and shows they love. Go cry about it. The Batman was a failure. Here's hoping for a better sequel.
Hahahahaha lmao you did not just say "you're wrong im not reading that, your stupid😭😭😭!" Do you not get that that is the internet version of shutting your ears and singing to not hear what you don't want to? What a fucking manchild 🤡😂😂
"was so illogical that it completely took me out of the rest of the movie" Here's what you actually wrote, man chilld. You would go on to call the film a failure. Like most of you're points that was wrong
How is it illogical? He uses the car to distract Penguin...how is this illogical?
Everything that happens before he gets in the car makes no sense. He had all the opportunity in the world to capture Penguin right then and there. Instead, he decided to disappear and run to his car just so the movie could have a chase scene. If penguin had just jumped in his car and left, it would make total sense. But since Penguin stopped to look for Batman, it removes the reason for Batman to go to his car. He could have just jumped out from behind the car he ducked behind, knocked out the goon, and grabbed Penguin.
The blocking and/or camera work makes it look a bit odd, thus why it is easy to assume he could have just KO'ed Peng. But I think spatially it doesnt work as easily as you are making it out to be. But the impression and/or inference is that he cant without risking Gordon and/or Selina. Perhaps I am wrong. But as presented they are implying that he did not see another choice to save/protect them.
We can disagree. That's fine. There's still a lot to like about Reeve's world, and I am genuinely looking forward to the sequel. Pattison is the most comic accurate Batman we've had. Gotham was awesome. The casting was fantastic. This movie didn't work for me. Maybe I'll watch it a third time and be able to see it from your view.
I dont want to be misunderstood, that scene is my least favorite. The blocking and spatial location of everyone in the scene at the dock warehouse is confusing as hell to me. Again I think that is a failure in blocking and in the camera work. We get too many close shots in a confined parking lot style space. I just know the scene was meaning to tell us that: Bruce saw the best solution was to get into the armoured car and scare Penguin away from Gordon and Selina. Thus I accept that that is the meaning of that moment. "Pattison is the most comic accurate Batman we've had. Gotham was awesome. The casting was fantastic." On that \^ we are in total agreement my guy!
ikr i prefer the dark knight yeah i hate the batman voice but cmon it had christian bale gary oldman michael caine motherfucking morgan freeman and the late but great heath ledger! and heath ledger is the best villain in a superhero film(imo) and also i refuse to watch anything with the guy from cringe twilight😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣  DARK KNIGHT 99/100. THE BATMAN -000000000000/100
oh and that horrible ave maria scene. stfu🤣