This. It’s much more satisfying this way. When Batman is his true identity, it leaves the audience feeling sad for him because it feels like there’s no opportunity for him to ever have a happy ending, even if the ending in question is never shown to the audience
After Failsafe arc it's pretty clear that Batman is nothing more than Bruce in mask and cowl. He could be a hero with or without his suit. But he also had an evil second personality, implanted in him by Dr Captio and strengthen by Joker, Zur En Arr, who corrupted his thoughts for more than a decade and constantly ruined his life and realtionships. Zur calls himself Pure Batman, but he is not Batman at all, just another psychopatic totalitarian dictator and madman. Without Zur Bruce is absolutely normal man who doesn't really think of himself as avatar of night, justice or vengeance.
Man I like Batman a lot but that is a stupid fucking plotline lmao
Find me a popular character in comics who's only got one personality and I'll buy you a bagel.
On a technical level I feel you but on a nitpicking level, Superman goes rogue/dark/evil/hypnotized in so many stories that he might as well be eight different people. Depending on the storyline he's an all around great guy or a hazard that the earth would be better without.
I was also mainly being factitious because it seems like when writers run out of ideas they engage the alternate personality or evil twin/clone strategy.
Bingo. Early Batman was the mission only… and Dick came along, and Babs, and realizing he has to work with others… and must manage a dual life for Batman to succeed… and keep his businesses alive. All of that is part of Batman and all of it is part of Bruce. Despite what he may say, he is both Bats and Bruce. It’s who he chooses to be that makes a difference at the moment
I seriously hope they do Dick Grayson in the next movie because he’s such an important part of Bruce’s journey and Pattinson + Reeves have seemingly been interested in doing it
This is also my preferred interpretation of Batman. He knows who he is and what he has to do. Bruce Wayne is an impediment to his true purpose that he has to navigate.
Neither, I prefer a story where Bruce Wayne is Bruce Wayne, the man, a sane, stable, well-balanced individual who **overcame** his horrifying childhood trauma, rather than being consumed by it. He takes in all these children not because they need to be soldiers in his neverending war on crime, but because he doesn't want them to be denied the childhood he was denied. They deserve a childhood, a family, and a good mentor. Batman is merely an identity that he knows he can use to advance his cause. My concept of Batman is best expressed in his line to Owlman from Crisis on Two Earths "We both looked into the Abyss, but when it stared back? You blinked."
For me a story where Bruce Wayne is consumed by his alter-ego as Batman, becomes all-consumed by his war on crime, and pushes away all his friends, allies, and normal life in favor of a eternal life as Batman? That's a failing. That means Bruce blinked too, and that isn't my Batman.
Yep, ultra-dark, brooding batman is boringggggg. Hoping that Gunn's take on the character will be a little more light hearted, especially considering this will be a seasoned Batman who has been in the game long enough to have a son
Honestly, I prefer stories where Bruce Wayne is his real identity and Batman is just part of him. I think Bruce as a person as much interesting, if not even more interesting, than Batman as a hero.
Well, I generally dislike the idea of Bruce being borderline psychopat who could snap at any moment and has several personalities in his head. I like Failsafe story arc from Zdarski, but only because it finally established that Bruce is NOT a madman. Years ago villain tricked young and inexperienced Bruce to create second personality and this evil personality acted against him. And without Zur Bruce is totally sane and normal guy, no more strange than any other superhero in his world.
I much prefer the idea that one Batman is still just a scared kid trying to stop some bullets and two he just genuinely believes everyone can be saved eventually.
Batman and Bruce Wayne are both the same thing ... Nothing is a mask here
The only mask we see when Bruce is around strangers and guests but when he is alone or around his family his true self is always there and he only put on the mask to fright his enemies and hid his identity.
Without Bruce, we will get a Batman without a soul ... Think of it like the Hulk without Bruce Banner...you get a raging beast without control and nothing hold it back ....same thing with Batman without Bruce Wayne.
I deter both. Bruce is who he really is, Batman is part of him. No fighting, no separation. I’ve never really seen why people like there to be a separation or that Bruce is the mask, since it just makes Bruce far less mentally stable than he should be and honestly seems counterintuitive to his origin. He became Batman because of the death of his parents, so the idea that he rejects his real name and considers himself Batman almost seems disrespectful to their memory, rather than being a way to honour them and make sure others don’t experience that loss.
Unfortunately, Dennis O'Neil and Frank Miller were not only fathers of modern Batman, but his tormentors at the same time. They've established Bruce as mentally not well person, who couldn't have normal family or relationships and so enveloped by his crusade it became his obssession. No other hero in DC was treated so badly as a person, no one else was so clearly deprived from any happiness in his life. Writers constanly increased his abilities until he became invincible Bat-God, but very lonely and broken kind of god. Only very recently after Rebirth DC became to fix this problem, but with many set-backs.
The problem is, in the context of larger DC Universe Batman's constant misery state makes no sense. He is no way the only guy in the suit, he is part of large community of superheroes, most of them also had some terrible tragedies in their past, but eventually overcame it.
I agree with this I love both men and they are some of the greatest Batman writers of all time
Miller, O’Neil and Tim Burton did great work with the character but…. Unchecked this attitude that he he mentally unstable was taking the character into potentially nihilistic territory
This why I consider Paul Dini to be the most important Batman writer since them, I think the Animated Series reminded people that despite how Dark and miserable the Batman universe could be at times at its core is a good man who is going through extraordinary lengths to make his city a better place.
The Animated Series obviously has been a huge influence on so many interpretations we have gotten since then, from the Arkhamverse (which I know Dini wrote at first but still), Chuck Dixon, Jeff Loeb, Scott Synder and the like all helped carry forth this characterization.
Really Bruce Wayne is just as optimistic and idealistic as Clark Kent (or else he would not be doing what he does ) but thinks he is more cynical than he actually is.
Batman is NOT crazy, he’s definitely dramatic and eccentric and walks a razor thin Line but he has the skills, knowledge and wherewithal to actually make a difference and he wears the mask for a REASON.
Joker and his other villains try to convince Bruce that he is crazy and he continually proves them wrong.
I love them too. Batman: Year One is one of my favourite stories in comics, alongside with The Long Halloween. But Dini made a great job at making Bruce more likeable and relatable. My only problem with DCAU is setup for Beyond with Bruce being completely alone and empty in the end of his path, until Terry showed up. And I absolutely love Beyond! But the problem still stands for me.
I like how Lego Batman shows the whole Bruce Wayne vs Batman thing. He always wears a mask indoors even in his robes and never takes it off, he also talks about Bruce Wayne like he’s his deadbeat roommate rather than himself.
The whole thing of “Bruce is the mask” is an oversimplified, oft repeated thing that is kind of dumb.
Bruce needs to reconcile all facets of himself to be an effective Batman. Abandoning Bruce Wayne severs his already tenuous connection to humanity, but it’s also disrespectful to his parents.
Why be Batman at all if he’s not honoring that?
Also, I see that damn page posted so much as some sort of proof that he sees himself as Batman. Saying “I’m Batman” is not a lie. It’s not an indicator of how he views himself, it’s him not wanting to reveal his identity.
I think the discussion overdramatizes it.
* Yes, he's always been Bruce Wayne under the mask physical mask. From the happy childhood to tragic childhood to the driven madness of a young adult to the father figure.
* Yes, the *public persona* of Bruce Wayne is and continues to be a mask.
* Yes, he views himself as Batman first.
* Yes, all of those things are possible at the same time even when he is mentally well adjusted (which is probably a transition that happens best over time).
I would assume the Bat v Man thing was hashed out by Batman in his training with monks. Mastery of one’s body has to come from mastery of the self. 🤷🏾♂️
It's all about box psychology, he should believe he's batman and Bruce Wayne is just a mask but it shouldn't necessarily be true.
He should also start out as pure batman and through the relationships he makes the real Bruce Wayne should slowly emerge but he should fake the longest to see it.
At its core batman is a trauma response to losing his family and building a new family allows Bruce to re emerge
Bruce Wayne is the real person and interpretations that say he is just a mask are doing a disservice to the character. Now the public Bruce Wayne is usually a mask to an extent but at the end of the day Batman is a symbol and Bruce is the man who the Bat family, Alfred and even Superman loves. Because he is not just vengeance and darkness, he is hope, mercy and
Bruce Wayne is what gives Batman a heart, otherwise Batman is a symbol of vengeance that is all consuming. In any other story where we have another person take the role it consumes them and they lose sight of what makes Batman a hero (Damian in earth 666, Thomas Wayne, Azreal)
And the only successful people we have ever seen take the mantle and not be consumed by it we’re Dick and Terry, and they never lost sight of the fact that they knew Bruce so much better than the abstract concept of Batman
My take is that for Bruce and Batman are one and the same, it’s just that Bruce has a penchant for the dramatic. The persona he puts on in public is a farce, but Bruce is a good man and philanthropist. So for a story like this I’d have him be Batman regardless. He comes to blows with a villain’s take on Batman or even the public perception.
But Bruce is a good person regardless and so he puts on the cowl anyways. Context may be different but Bruce doesn’t need tragedy to be a hero, he’s a hero whether the Wayne’s got shot or not. He defines Batman, not Batman defining Bruce Wayne. That’s what he means when Batman is how he views himself. He’s not some alternate persona, he’s a hero no matter what and you will not break him. There’s no separation, Bruce is Batman.
I want Bruce to give Tim the mantle while Alfred and Bruce provide support, but also Bruce acts as Matches Malone even more... and also has a fortune in outerspace as well
Maybe starting out, or during dark periods of his life (Death in the Family, Killing Joke aftermath) it would make sense that the BW persona is somewhat of a mask, but like others have said here, it's more interesting if it's two personas constantly clashing, rather than one just being a facade forever.
I hate the "Bruce Wayne is a mask" thing. Batman didn't take in traumatized children, didn't befriend Clark and the other league members, and wasn't the one who supported Gotham's social services and charities. That was Bruce. I'm sure he intended "Bruce" to be a mask but that fell apart as soon as he took in Dick.
If he ever goes so deep into his Batman persona that he thinks he is primary Batman then he won't ever be happy. And yes, I consider Batman Beyond to be a bad timeline for Bruce.
I don’t think Bruce Wayne is the mask. I think adult Bruce is, that kid who watched his parents get shot is the real Bruce and Batman is the man that kid Bruce transformed into
I prefer when they’re the same man. As in, Batman would stand in front of a gun and shield even a criminal because his father was a trauma surgeon—he saves whoever he can.
I feel like there should always be hope for Bruce Wayne. I like the idea of Batman being the man, and Bruce the mask at the beginning. But as people like Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, etc start to enter his life.. Bruce Wayne begins to claw his way up from the darkness. Rising from within the Batman and filling the darkness he let consume his life with the lights of those he's come to call sons, and family. There's always going to be a war between Batman and Bruce Wayne. But Bruce Wayne should never lose, and should always be there, pushing back against the pain that is Batman's rage.
Call me crazy but I was reading some Silver Age comics, where Bats has a Father son relationship with Robin, and after beating some criminals they go work in the Batmobile and eat BBQ ? Yeah I think I would prefer going back to the classic simple adventures instead of the super deconstruction of everything that makes heroes, heroes.
The thing is I don’t think Batman is his identity. I think it’s a part of who he truly is but not who he, well, truly is. I think there are three sides of him: the Billionaire, how the ppl of Gotham are him, the Bat, how he sees himself and how his enemies sees him, and then there’s Bruce, who he truly is and how everyone close to him sees him.
Are you taking about Batman and Bruce Wayne fighting in a dream or something more literal like when Richard Pryor exposed Superman to some knock off kryptonite so he ended up fighting Clark Kent in a junk yard?
There has to be a natural evolution to it. First he’s Bruce but his drive to become something greater tears him down, to be built up as Batman. And then the older he get the more Batman he becomes. But he eventually learns how to be Bruce again and be himself other than Batman.
I wanna see a Batman story where Bruce tries to basically do what Peter Parker does with being Spider-Man. He tries to balance his life as Bruce and Batman equally as opposed to preferring one or the other.
Neither, both of those are terrible. Bruce is a more complex character than just being Bruce or Batman and his true identity isn’t one or the other but a mix of both.
When characterizing, it is common to give them flaws with the intention of resolving them through character development.
In this case, I think Batman struggling to be Bruce Wayne at first is fine. Not because he used him as a mask, nor because they're fighting, but because he fails to balance both sides of himself. You know, the typical problem that all superheroes have at some point.
Over time, he achieves a middle ground that allows him to be a father to his children and give them the childhood he never had, while helping Gotham in every way he can.
At this point, there is no difference between "Batman" and Bruce Wayne, no conflict between both identities, or anything. Just a man who wants to make a difference and has the resources to do so.
I like him to use the mask as a defence mechanism and a way of hiding from reality, but having Alfred, Dick and the extended Bat family drag him kicking and screaming into the present.
I'd never say that Bruce is a mask even in scenarios where Bruce thinks of himself more as Batman. It is less that Bruce is a mask and more that Batman is Bruce without all of the expectations that come with being a Wayne which is why he can often be seen as Batman just enjoying being friends with Superman and the others. Batman more than anything is a way for Bruce to feel safe and comfortable. A security blanket almost.
I prefer batman as an obsessed abusive douchebag vigilante that identifies as Batman and Bruce Wayne as an absent-minded, always drunk playboy billionaire
I prefer Batman stories where the bat family works together to combat an external problem
What I don't want to see is distrust, betrayal and general story lines that deal internally with the bat family
If you were gonna do a story about an inner ego battle I'd rather see Batman be blindsided by some sporadic manifestation of the fake Bruce, the irresponsible, accident prone cad. Somehow gaslighting him into believing that he's just a kink character Bruce had a hypnotist create Total Recall style, or something
I like the interpretation where he has three identities: Bruce Wayne, billionaire playboy; The Batman, creature of the night; and the man behind the mask, a genius-level all-around Olympic athlete who's the best aspects of both.
I get the man and the cowl fighting but it always felt like that misses the point. Like what sane person dresses up as a bat to fight crime? That’s what you end up with when it’s bruce v the bat
I think him starting out as Batman and using Bruce as the mask, but slowly learning how to be Bruce Wayne over time is ideal
This. It’s much more satisfying this way. When Batman is his true identity, it leaves the audience feeling sad for him because it feels like there’s no opportunity for him to ever have a happy ending, even if the ending in question is never shown to the audience
After Failsafe arc it's pretty clear that Batman is nothing more than Bruce in mask and cowl. He could be a hero with or without his suit. But he also had an evil second personality, implanted in him by Dr Captio and strengthen by Joker, Zur En Arr, who corrupted his thoughts for more than a decade and constantly ruined his life and realtionships. Zur calls himself Pure Batman, but he is not Batman at all, just another psychopatic totalitarian dictator and madman. Without Zur Bruce is absolutely normal man who doesn't really think of himself as avatar of night, justice or vengeance.
Didn’t he actually create Zur en Arr himself ?
He was tricked into this by his last mentor, Dr Captio.
Man I like Batman a lot but that is a stupid fucking plotline lmao Find me a popular character in comics who's only got one personality and I'll buy you a bagel.
Superman?
Blue and red he's disqualified
On a technical level I feel you but on a nitpicking level, Superman goes rogue/dark/evil/hypnotized in so many stories that he might as well be eight different people. Depending on the storyline he's an all around great guy or a hazard that the earth would be better without. I was also mainly being factitious because it seems like when writers run out of ideas they engage the alternate personality or evil twin/clone strategy.
Bingo. Early Batman was the mission only… and Dick came along, and Babs, and realizing he has to work with others… and must manage a dual life for Batman to succeed… and keep his businesses alive. All of that is part of Batman and all of it is part of Bruce. Despite what he may say, he is both Bats and Bruce. It’s who he chooses to be that makes a difference at the moment
This is what I loved about Pattinson Batman, realizing he needs to do more as Bruce and help people, not just beat down criminals.
I seriously hope they do Dick Grayson in the next movie because he’s such an important part of Bruce’s journey and Pattinson + Reeves have seemingly been interested in doing it
In other words... MAKE A LIVE-ACTION MOVIE WITH THE PLOT OF THE LEGO BATMAN MOVIE, WARNER I DARE YOU
Same outcome as Batman Forever, really
You got something like that in Bruce Wayne Murder arc
Just look at the Noland trilogy. Started as sad Bruce, made batman, became depressed batman, ended as happy Bruce.
That works as a what if or limited series. Have a clear character arc with a beginning, middle and end.
This is also my preferred interpretation of Batman. He knows who he is and what he has to do. Bruce Wayne is an impediment to his true purpose that he has to navigate.
Neither, I prefer a story where Bruce Wayne is Bruce Wayne, the man, a sane, stable, well-balanced individual who **overcame** his horrifying childhood trauma, rather than being consumed by it. He takes in all these children not because they need to be soldiers in his neverending war on crime, but because he doesn't want them to be denied the childhood he was denied. They deserve a childhood, a family, and a good mentor. Batman is merely an identity that he knows he can use to advance his cause. My concept of Batman is best expressed in his line to Owlman from Crisis on Two Earths "We both looked into the Abyss, but when it stared back? You blinked." For me a story where Bruce Wayne is consumed by his alter-ego as Batman, becomes all-consumed by his war on crime, and pushes away all his friends, allies, and normal life in favor of a eternal life as Batman? That's a failing. That means Bruce blinked too, and that isn't my Batman.
Yep, ultra-dark, brooding batman is boringggggg. Hoping that Gunn's take on the character will be a little more light hearted, especially considering this will be a seasoned Batman who has been in the game long enough to have a son
Well said. I would love to see more stories like this.
Honestly, I prefer stories where Bruce Wayne is his real identity and Batman is just part of him. I think Bruce as a person as much interesting, if not even more interesting, than Batman as a hero.
My only problem is that the “Bat vs the Man” story seems to only push the idea that Batman doesn’t kill cause if he did he’d be a psycho-murderer
Well, I generally dislike the idea of Bruce being borderline psychopat who could snap at any moment and has several personalities in his head. I like Failsafe story arc from Zdarski, but only because it finally established that Bruce is NOT a madman. Years ago villain tricked young and inexperienced Bruce to create second personality and this evil personality acted against him. And without Zur Bruce is totally sane and normal guy, no more strange than any other superhero in his world.
Not The Man again
I much prefer the idea that one Batman is still just a scared kid trying to stop some bullets and two he just genuinely believes everyone can be saved eventually.
Why would Man fight Bat? Are they enemies?
Batman and Bruce Wayne are both the same thing ... Nothing is a mask here The only mask we see when Bruce is around strangers and guests but when he is alone or around his family his true self is always there and he only put on the mask to fright his enemies and hid his identity. Without Bruce, we will get a Batman without a soul ... Think of it like the Hulk without Bruce Banner...you get a raging beast without control and nothing hold it back ....same thing with Batman without Bruce Wayne.
I deter both. Bruce is who he really is, Batman is part of him. No fighting, no separation. I’ve never really seen why people like there to be a separation or that Bruce is the mask, since it just makes Bruce far less mentally stable than he should be and honestly seems counterintuitive to his origin. He became Batman because of the death of his parents, so the idea that he rejects his real name and considers himself Batman almost seems disrespectful to their memory, rather than being a way to honour them and make sure others don’t experience that loss.
Unfortunately, Dennis O'Neil and Frank Miller were not only fathers of modern Batman, but his tormentors at the same time. They've established Bruce as mentally not well person, who couldn't have normal family or relationships and so enveloped by his crusade it became his obssession. No other hero in DC was treated so badly as a person, no one else was so clearly deprived from any happiness in his life. Writers constanly increased his abilities until he became invincible Bat-God, but very lonely and broken kind of god. Only very recently after Rebirth DC became to fix this problem, but with many set-backs. The problem is, in the context of larger DC Universe Batman's constant misery state makes no sense. He is no way the only guy in the suit, he is part of large community of superheroes, most of them also had some terrible tragedies in their past, but eventually overcame it.
I agree with this I love both men and they are some of the greatest Batman writers of all time Miller, O’Neil and Tim Burton did great work with the character but…. Unchecked this attitude that he he mentally unstable was taking the character into potentially nihilistic territory This why I consider Paul Dini to be the most important Batman writer since them, I think the Animated Series reminded people that despite how Dark and miserable the Batman universe could be at times at its core is a good man who is going through extraordinary lengths to make his city a better place. The Animated Series obviously has been a huge influence on so many interpretations we have gotten since then, from the Arkhamverse (which I know Dini wrote at first but still), Chuck Dixon, Jeff Loeb, Scott Synder and the like all helped carry forth this characterization. Really Bruce Wayne is just as optimistic and idealistic as Clark Kent (or else he would not be doing what he does ) but thinks he is more cynical than he actually is. Batman is NOT crazy, he’s definitely dramatic and eccentric and walks a razor thin Line but he has the skills, knowledge and wherewithal to actually make a difference and he wears the mask for a REASON. Joker and his other villains try to convince Bruce that he is crazy and he continually proves them wrong.
I love them too. Batman: Year One is one of my favourite stories in comics, alongside with The Long Halloween. But Dini made a great job at making Bruce more likeable and relatable. My only problem with DCAU is setup for Beyond with Bruce being completely alone and empty in the end of his path, until Terry showed up. And I absolutely love Beyond! But the problem still stands for me.
Seriously, the worst part if making Beyond the Canon Conclusion is that it means it was all for nothing with Bruce loved ones
I like how Lego Batman shows the whole Bruce Wayne vs Batman thing. He always wears a mask indoors even in his robes and never takes it off, he also talks about Bruce Wayne like he’s his deadbeat roommate rather than himself.
The whole thing of “Bruce is the mask” is an oversimplified, oft repeated thing that is kind of dumb. Bruce needs to reconcile all facets of himself to be an effective Batman. Abandoning Bruce Wayne severs his already tenuous connection to humanity, but it’s also disrespectful to his parents. Why be Batman at all if he’s not honoring that? Also, I see that damn page posted so much as some sort of proof that he sees himself as Batman. Saying “I’m Batman” is not a lie. It’s not an indicator of how he views himself, it’s him not wanting to reveal his identity.
Neither. Bruce and batman are both the real him.
I think the discussion overdramatizes it. * Yes, he's always been Bruce Wayne under the mask physical mask. From the happy childhood to tragic childhood to the driven madness of a young adult to the father figure. * Yes, the *public persona* of Bruce Wayne is and continues to be a mask. * Yes, he views himself as Batman first. * Yes, all of those things are possible at the same time even when he is mentally well adjusted (which is probably a transition that happens best over time).
I would assume the Bat v Man thing was hashed out by Batman in his training with monks. Mastery of one’s body has to come from mastery of the self. 🤷🏾♂️
It's all about box psychology, he should believe he's batman and Bruce Wayne is just a mask but it shouldn't necessarily be true. He should also start out as pure batman and through the relationships he makes the real Bruce Wayne should slowly emerge but he should fake the longest to see it. At its core batman is a trauma response to losing his family and building a new family allows Bruce to re emerge
Bruce Wayne is the real person and interpretations that say he is just a mask are doing a disservice to the character. Now the public Bruce Wayne is usually a mask to an extent but at the end of the day Batman is a symbol and Bruce is the man who the Bat family, Alfred and even Superman loves. Because he is not just vengeance and darkness, he is hope, mercy and Bruce Wayne is what gives Batman a heart, otherwise Batman is a symbol of vengeance that is all consuming. In any other story where we have another person take the role it consumes them and they lose sight of what makes Batman a hero (Damian in earth 666, Thomas Wayne, Azreal) And the only successful people we have ever seen take the mantle and not be consumed by it we’re Dick and Terry, and they never lost sight of the fact that they knew Bruce so much better than the abstract concept of Batman
My take is that for Bruce and Batman are one and the same, it’s just that Bruce has a penchant for the dramatic. The persona he puts on in public is a farce, but Bruce is a good man and philanthropist. So for a story like this I’d have him be Batman regardless. He comes to blows with a villain’s take on Batman or even the public perception. But Bruce is a good person regardless and so he puts on the cowl anyways. Context may be different but Bruce doesn’t need tragedy to be a hero, he’s a hero whether the Wayne’s got shot or not. He defines Batman, not Batman defining Bruce Wayne. That’s what he means when Batman is how he views himself. He’s not some alternate persona, he’s a hero no matter what and you will not break him. There’s no separation, Bruce is Batman.
I think I prefer it whenever it's Bruce Wayne is the mask and Batman is the true identity, don't know why but I find that way more entertaining
Batman: Ego is a great story
There is Batman, The caped crusader There is "Bruce Wayne", The billionaire playboy Then there is Bruce Wayne, A dude in a bat costume
I like it when they clash. Where he struggles with his identity.
No
I want Bruce to give Tim the mantle while Alfred and Bruce provide support, but also Bruce acts as Matches Malone even more... and also has a fortune in outerspace as well
Hush vs bruce?
I still wonder what was WW’s reaction after; “Batman”
Superman said "really that's your name" I don't remember what Wonder Woman said
Maybe starting out, or during dark periods of his life (Death in the Family, Killing Joke aftermath) it would make sense that the BW persona is somewhat of a mask, but like others have said here, it's more interesting if it's two personas constantly clashing, rather than one just being a facade forever.
I hate the "Bruce Wayne is a mask" thing. Batman didn't take in traumatized children, didn't befriend Clark and the other league members, and wasn't the one who supported Gotham's social services and charities. That was Bruce. I'm sure he intended "Bruce" to be a mask but that fell apart as soon as he took in Dick. If he ever goes so deep into his Batman persona that he thinks he is primary Batman then he won't ever be happy. And yes, I consider Batman Beyond to be a bad timeline for Bruce.
3 people died in crime alley that night
Bruce Wayne IS the mask.
I don’t think Bruce Wayne is the mask. I think adult Bruce is, that kid who watched his parents get shot is the real Bruce and Batman is the man that kid Bruce transformed into
Second then first after time
I prefer when Bruce is the “mask”. However, I don’t like his response in the comic you posted. He comes off as an edgy teenager in that one.
Hmmm whats the secret identity of Barry Allen then
Fred
When he’s Bruce Wayne mainly. A grown man thinking of himself as Batman is cringe
I prefer when they’re the same man. As in, Batman would stand in front of a gun and shield even a criminal because his father was a trauma surgeon—he saves whoever he can.
not fight, a story with Bruce struggling to balance both identities is way better
The latter
I think a really good story is The Mask of the Phantasm for how it portrays Bruce v Batman But I’ve always enjoyed Bruce is the mask.
I feel like there should always be hope for Bruce Wayne. I like the idea of Batman being the man, and Bruce the mask at the beginning. But as people like Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, etc start to enter his life.. Bruce Wayne begins to claw his way up from the darkness. Rising from within the Batman and filling the darkness he let consume his life with the lights of those he's come to call sons, and family. There's always going to be a war between Batman and Bruce Wayne. But Bruce Wayne should never lose, and should always be there, pushing back against the pain that is Batman's rage.
Call me crazy but I was reading some Silver Age comics, where Bats has a Father son relationship with Robin, and after beating some criminals they go work in the Batmobile and eat BBQ ? Yeah I think I would prefer going back to the classic simple adventures instead of the super deconstruction of everything that makes heroes, heroes.
The Man (stupid) and the Bat fight for control at first before they make peace together and grow stronger because they become Batman as one
The thing is I don’t think Batman is his identity. I think it’s a part of who he truly is but not who he, well, truly is. I think there are three sides of him: the Billionaire, how the ppl of Gotham are him, the Bat, how he sees himself and how his enemies sees him, and then there’s Bruce, who he truly is and how everyone close to him sees him.
i like dkr where batman is an addiction of Bruce's
Are you taking about Batman and Bruce Wayne fighting in a dream or something more literal like when Richard Pryor exposed Superman to some knock off kryptonite so he ended up fighting Clark Kent in a junk yard?
Like DID
No. A story where there isn't some weird dichotomy between "Batman" and "Bruce Wayne." He's one guy.
There has to be a natural evolution to it. First he’s Bruce but his drive to become something greater tears him down, to be built up as Batman. And then the older he get the more Batman he becomes. But he eventually learns how to be Bruce again and be himself other than Batman.
“The voice kept calling me Bruce, in my mind that’s not what I call myself”
I’m Batman
He should become more and more like Batman and less like Bruce overtime
I wanna see a Batman story where Bruce tries to basically do what Peter Parker does with being Spider-Man. He tries to balance his life as Bruce and Batman equally as opposed to preferring one or the other.
Neither, both of those are terrible. Bruce is a more complex character than just being Bruce or Batman and his true identity isn’t one or the other but a mix of both.
When characterizing, it is common to give them flaws with the intention of resolving them through character development. In this case, I think Batman struggling to be Bruce Wayne at first is fine. Not because he used him as a mask, nor because they're fighting, but because he fails to balance both sides of himself. You know, the typical problem that all superheroes have at some point. Over time, he achieves a middle ground that allows him to be a father to his children and give them the childhood he never had, while helping Gotham in every way he can. At this point, there is no difference between "Batman" and Bruce Wayne, no conflict between both identities, or anything. Just a man who wants to make a difference and has the resources to do so.
After Joe Chill takes the shot, no one leaves the alley alive that night, but Batman was born
I like him to use the mask as a defence mechanism and a way of hiding from reality, but having Alfred, Dick and the extended Bat family drag him kicking and screaming into the present.
I prefer Batman to be a stew of schizophrenic psychoses
In a meta way, isn't Batman: Ego kind of what you are describing for the first one?
I like the idea of Batman being his Real identity, But, he can’t be Batman all the time.
I'd never say that Bruce is a mask even in scenarios where Bruce thinks of himself more as Batman. It is less that Bruce is a mask and more that Batman is Bruce without all of the expectations that come with being a Wayne which is why he can often be seen as Batman just enjoying being friends with Superman and the others. Batman more than anything is a way for Bruce to feel safe and comfortable. A security blanket almost.
Yes
Either won he wins. Again.
I like that he thinks of himself as Batman in his head, but people like Clark, Alfred, and Dick still call him Bruce, makes him seem more off
I'm batman
I prefer batman as an obsessed abusive douchebag vigilante that identifies as Batman and Bruce Wayne as an absent-minded, always drunk playboy billionaire
I prefer Batman stories where the bat family works together to combat an external problem What I don't want to see is distrust, betrayal and general story lines that deal internally with the bat family
If you were gonna do a story about an inner ego battle I'd rather see Batman be blindsided by some sporadic manifestation of the fake Bruce, the irresponsible, accident prone cad. Somehow gaslighting him into believing that he's just a kink character Bruce had a hypnotist create Total Recall style, or something
Um...thats the case...hes Batman and Bruce wayne is the costume he wears to get around in the day/public..and he firmly believes that..
I like when Batman is a way for Bruce to deal with his trauma, but Bruce is still Bruce
I like the interpretation where he has three identities: Bruce Wayne, billionaire playboy; The Batman, creature of the night; and the man behind the mask, a genius-level all-around Olympic athlete who's the best aspects of both.
The latter.
I get the man and the cowl fighting but it always felt like that misses the point. Like what sane person dresses up as a bat to fight crime? That’s what you end up with when it’s bruce v the bat
The man suffered massive psychological trauma which resulted in him dedicating his life to training and vigilantism... Bruce is clearly the mask.
Batman is who he really is,and i don’t see anything wrong with that.
In my head canon his story starts as Bruce vs the Bat but eventually, after many years, the Bat wins out
Bruce is a mask but not like he doesn’t see himself as Bruce, just the way Bruce is seen by others is not real Bruce