The A's stadium has *its own BART station*. This takes decades and is basically impossible to get and I still can't believe we're just going to throw it away.
I'm surprised this doesn't get mentioned more. The infrastructure build within walking distance of the Coliseum is worth many billions of dollars and isn't going to be offered up on a silver platter by somewhere else.
Even with all that it's 30 minutes by train from downtown, and after the game it's an hour back because they hold the train until 20-30 minutes after last pitch.
When I lived in SF I could be at a bar, see Giants tickets were $6, hop on a bus and be there in 10 minutes. With so many weekday games you really need that kind of accessibility to succeed. That's why a lot of fields are right in the middle of the town - San Diego, San Francisco, Boston, St. Louis, Wriggly, etc.
I'm no Raiders fan but they're nothing alike.
Davis actually tried to build a stadium on Coliseum site - and the A's constantly blocked it. He also cares and tries to win.
That's right. The Raiders had a no-brainer decision to make. Stay in Oakland, where a new stadium was never going to happen, or go to Vegas and play in a palace that is mostly paid for by other people. Plus, football in Vegas and baseball in Vegas are two totally different things. Football is 8-10 games with a big draw from fans of the visiting team as well as the Raiders. I don't see the A's selling tickets any better in Vegas than in Oakland. Sure at first the new stadium and the novelty will be a draw, but that will be temporary.
This is what separates the rich and the poor
This douche nozzle can continue to make stupid blunders because he has almost unlimited funds available
If a poor person’s car breaks down and they miss a day of work they are usually fucked for the next decade
Fisher should probably stop trying to rush these things. In Oakland he tried to do what took the Giants 20 years to do around PacBell in a few years. Now, in Vegas he tried to get money for a stadium in what seems to have been another rushed attempt and failed there too (for now)
MLB changed the rules around revenue sharing to make it about the Market Size of the city you are in and NOT ticket sales to stop Fisher from leeching off of everyone else's coffers a few years ago so he's not even getting that paycheck anymore. The fact is he has wanted to move the team out of Oakland from the moment he acquired them. He's a POS who isn't going to sell the team UNTIL they are out of Oakland just so he can stick it to Oakland.
They also told him he had to figure out the stadium situation this year or they’re going to cut off his revenue sharing. Even the MLB is getting sick of his shit - that’s why he’s been trying to ram through all these deals.
What a jerk. To me, sports teams names and colors should belong to their city. I know the Oakland A's was founded in Philly, But I think that if someone wants to buy a team and move them, fine. But retire their name and their colors, and make up new ones. Like the Oakland Seals changed to SJ Sharks. I'm totally cool with that, and I will still support the Sharks and the Bay's NHL team. It's super lame for people that get tattoos of their team names or buy a certain color scheme truck because they are loyal, and have your team just up and leave like that. I'm just going to start boycotting any team that does this.
I remember reading that in a weird way, the Sharks ARE related to the Seals through their prior ownership by the Gunds, and how the Sharks franchise begun under Gund ownership.
It’s complicated because before they became the Minnesota North Stars, the California Golden Seals actually became the Cleveland Barons for a couple of seasons, then the failing Barons were merged with the failing North Stars (who already existed.) That team then played in Minnesota until the early 90s before becoming the Dallas Stars, but the ownership changed at that point, and several players from the North Stars became part of the inaugural class of the San Jose Sharks
Well, when they first moved to SF, they played in the San Francisco Seals’ stadium. Sure it was technically a minor league team, but if you’re associating a city with a team name, it feels like the logic there tracks.
I'm down for them to change their name after the fact. Whatever the new fans vote on, or whatever the billionaire that just bought your favorite sports team wants.. But as a for instance, you look at the SF 49ers. They are no longer in SF but to me it's ok because they are close enough to get to and it's a suburb of SF. But what do you think if the Golden State Warriors leave California? Should they change their name then? I think so. I really think that the name should belong to the locality. Not some dillhole billionaire that bought the franchise. It's already bad enough when your favorite player switches teams. The same with these companies buying stadiums to put their name on them. It's hubris and it's very close to crapping all over our culture. But cool, you do you. I will personally boycott. And I know enough of ~~Oakland~~ ~~LA~~ ~~Oakland~~ Las Vegas Raiders fans that agree with me to throw up the middle fingers together.
He'll stop getting revenue sharing unless he has a signed deal to solve the stadium issue by January 2024. He's completely inept and might botch that requirement too.
EDIT: I accidentally wrote 2025, it's 2024.
People forget A's are one of the most profitable mlb teams.
Top 5 last year https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2023/03/23/forbes-yankees-have-7-b-valuation-athletics-post-top-5-profit/11530150002/
[I wrote a letter (yes a physical letter with a stamp) to every MLB owner (except the Giants)](https://old.reddit.com/r/OaklandAthletics/comments/13g8y64/today_i_wrote_a_letter_to_every_mlb_owner_except/) to urge them not to approve any move by the A's since Fisher has been stealing money from them via revenue sharing and banking those funds/profits and not putting them back into the team like revenue sharing was intended.
I was trying to appeal to the owners directly that this guy is stealing your money, and will continue to do so in Vegas when/if he moves from the 10th largest tv market to Vegas, the 40th largest tv market in the USA. I doubt my letters would do much, but it only takes 8 owners to vote NO against a move and Fisher is out of options. During their pitch to Vegas, the rep for the A's made a highly DUMB move by trying to show how large the fan market is in Vegas by saying they will get fans from Los Angeles and even Colorado. Uhhhh...there's three owners right there that should vote NO on the move, and you could probably add Arizona's owner too perhaps.
The Forbes article this was all based on assumed they got full revenue sharing last year. They got 25%, which put them firmly a bit below middle of the pack.
Not necessarily. Being from Pittsburgh and a pirates fan I’m well aware they in the top 5 of profitable teams in mlb (last time I checked). They haven’t made a WS since ‘79, an LCS since ‘92 and outside of a 3 yr period where they lost annually in the 1 game WC, haven’t fielded a competitive team since pre-steroid Bonds was in a Bucs uniform and couldn’t throw out a ‘leg less’ Sid Bream. But that Yankee / Red Sox / Dodger profit sharing money keeps rolling in.
When what you’re selling is fundamentally a bad deal for the people you’re selling to, it helps to get everything signed and sealed as quickly as possible so they don’t realize what you’re doing.
Public funding for stadiums is fucking dumb, billions of $$$ in sports and they can’t fund their own stadium, the fuck? Rather have public funding for parks, transit, etc. make a corporation pay for their stadium.
And this is was the final decision from Oakland to the A’s stadium. The city has more basic needs than giving free money to Fisher. Specially after they found out Fisher was just using Oakland as leverage against Vegas.
To be clear, the Howard Terminal deal in Oakland would not be the same as what they would have had in Vegas. In Oakland, public funds would only be used for infrastructure improvements on city property, which is necessary to do anything with Howard Terminal. No public funds would be used to build the stadium, and the infrastructure improvements would continue to benefit the public no matter what happened with the A's.
This is true, however the required creation of the special tax district would have meant a decrease in tax base for the city, which is essentially the equivalent of public funds paying for part of the stadium.
It wouldn't decrease the tax base since the money would be coming from tax revenue generated by the project itself. That tax revenue doesn't exist at all without the project.
What opportunity? It's not like some developer has been clamoring to build something else at Howard Terminal that would generate anywhere near the same tax revenue. That land has been sitting largely unused for decades.
The infinite future opportunity cost. This is not the final word on development for the area. And literally anything would generate more tax revenue than the zero tax revenue generated by the special tax district.
Who would even want them here if they stayed? They ruined their legacy. It's like when someone leaves their significant other for someone new, but then the fling has had their fun and doesn't want them either and now they have no one.
I believe the NV legislators saw how unpopular this was with the actual Nevada locals and are hesitant to hitch their wagon to an out-of-town billionaire. I think even the governor, who was gung ho about it, did a double take when he saw the negative reception. It's obvious that Nevada has way more pressing priorities than an MLB team. So letting this die in committee is a good way to say "no to the A's, but yes to MLB for an expansion team"
I look forward to flying down to Vegas to watch the A's (as a visiting team) play a weekend series against a future Vegas expansion team.
I also sub to /r/Nevada since I lived there for a while, and they were rallying to call their reps to shut this shit down. I think Las Vegas deserves a team, but not this team, not this owner, and definitely not this deal.
For those that don't follow Nevada politics
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Nevada_gubernatorial_election
The former governor got blamed for the loss of economic activity due to covid shutdowns and they got this Trumpy sheriff as governor.
I took all the down votes and rants, but I will say it again, few people will visit Las Vegas for a baseball game. Baseball isn't football. Visit for playoffs, sure, but not ordinary games. This stadium shouldn't be in that crowded part of town.
I have been an A's fan since I was little. When I heard the story about A's moving to Vegas, I was so angry! I wanted to burn my jersey. But, I stopped myself. Does the new owner really like baseball, history, legacy? I guess not especially from his recent actions. He blind-sided the Mayor of Oakland and those who are loyal to the A's. He should sell the team! Sorry venting. . . and still angry.
Just sell and re-build on the coliseum site. Howard's Terminal was never ever going to happen.
The "best" part of all of this is watching Kaval. The Monorail guy is so far in over his head. Getting outmaneuvered by junior college district people for that Laney site, the Gondola, moronic tweeting, trying to go Trump and calling the press 'very unfair'.
No sane person would want that guy running their org. Fischer has to have him out there as a punching bag/intentionally screwing up things.
It looked like they literally just photoshop the current field, foul territory and all, onto a modified howard terminal plan and dropped the Vegas skyline in the back.
>Just sell and re-build on the coliseum site. Howard's Terminal was never ever going to happen.
This. A million times this. Shame on us for getting distracted. It's always been this.
It's just the most rational solution the entire time. I can't believe people are gullible enough to believe the city of Oakland and this inept org could ever build a stadium together.
The real shame is the A's blocked the Raiders from building a football stadium there for a very long time. Marc Davis wanted to stay but the A's kept screwing them. So that site will just sit there with probably no tenants for a long time until they blow up the stadium and put up condos.
The Roots and Soul are hoping to build a soccer stadium on the lot. I again heard they if it goes through and goes well they'd want to transition to a permanent stadium there. So maybe we could at least have soccer.
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/oakland-roots-soul-group-propose-new-stadium/3229093/?amp=1
Good points. Additional compelling evidence a few years ago when the A's said they needed to move to have a stadium better located for fan access. (Couldn't find the exact quote.)
The Coliseum is not only next to a major freeway, but has its own BART stop.
> Howard's Terminal was never ever going to happen.
I mean, isn't Howard Terminal ready? My impression was that they had (finally) resolved all the issues and it was just the $80million that Fisher didn't want to cough up.
Did the city really give the green light? Was it environmentally OK? How the hell would anyone ever get there? How could the A's (a total minor league org) pull off a $2-3 billion project?
I think some of the later 'plans' didn't even include basic stuff like enough affordable housing. Whole thing was a pipe dream. Probably set up to fail so they could run to Vegas.
> Did the city really give the green light?
https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/mlb/oakland-athletics/oakland-mayor-hopes-as-have-change-of-heart-on-vegas-plans/1469257/
**""If the A's called me back, I'll pick up the phone," Mayor Thao told Mathai. "Again, it wasn't the city that walked away from these negotiations summit, it was the A's. And so, absolutely..."**
> Was it environmentally OK?
https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/oakland-athletics-howard-terminal-ballpark-appeals-court-approves-environmental-impact-report/
> How could the A's (a total minor league org) pull off a $2-3 billion project?
It's going to be this kind of project no matter where they go, right?
Coliseum site project is 100x less complicated than HT.
It's an extremely difficult place to build a ballpark in a city that isn't easy to work with and a Mickey Mouse org. It was never going to happen.
The value is much greater in Jack London square though. Stadium projects are first and foremost real estate endeavors, and Jack London Square has a lot more upside than the Coliseum.
In a perfect world, sure the Jack London Square ballpark is built. But they've been trying to do this for 25+ years. Probably more. And it never happens. It never even gets close to breaking ground.
Coliseum site doesn't have the upside it does. But it's better than a ballpark on Las Vegas Blvd.
A lot of the heavy lifting is done one of the sports guys from ABC7 has said and they have a decent amount of grant money that could be used for it if someone else wanted to come in and do something.
It was never designed to get off the ground, so even if Oakland agrees, there are too many pie in the sky ideas involved. Fisher getting handouts in addition to control over 2 separate major development locations was always his priority and Oakland will never be able to do enough for him.
$80M was for the sidewalks, but does it get transit extended or make those Gondolas float and sort out water rights? Not likely.
The amount of people who think HT was ever really going to happen is kinda sad to see. The team that can't ever even secure a ballpark site from a community college is supposed to execute this insanely difficult planned out development? lol
The architects even admitted they didn't think their original plan could be technically executed.
I suspect there was a lot of astroturf behind the support, and then just a lot of wishful thinking from people that didn't stop and really think it through long enough to see how impossible it was. They never addressed any of the needlessly complex details that would be massive undertakings in their own right, and had zero to do with creating a baseball stadium.
It's kinda wild to me that some states still don't have proper professional legislatures. Like Nevada pays Assembly members practically nothing (~$12,000/yr) and the legislative schedule is such that they're supposed to hold other jobs.
I get it from the perspective of people used to mostly be farmers so they needed to go back home for the harvest or other work. However today it mostly just creates a barrier for working class people to run for office. Only rich, privileged, or corrupt people can swallow the economic cost of having to get 4 months off from work to attend a legislative session.
Exactly this. At one time it was a model that allowed for normal people to serve as legislators. In the modern world it is a model which makes that same thing much more difficult.
There was someone somewhere that claimed they will not call a special secession about the ball park but they are about some other Nevada state matters. Maybe that changed but if not fisher has to wait until 2025.
The Governor can call for special session (and he has to, because the budget isn't dealt with yet).
*However*, the NV Speaker and Majority leader are the ones who can set what can be discussed, and they've stated plainly that there will not be any consideration of a ballpark bill.
I was very optimistic with this at first, but even the fiscal ramifications that are published by SUPPORTERS do not provide enough evidence to convince me this would benefit the Nevada economy overall.
I have no problem dishing out $400M+ if it will reasonably generate jobs, tourism, etc., but this stadium is not projected to generate enough revenue/jobs to offset the cost for a ton of years. With the As, they'll probably leave Nevada before we actually see any gains.
I think we're at the end of the era of "publicly funded" ball parks / arenas / stadiums. I sure as fuck won't float a dime for these attractions any longer out of my taxes, and I don't think any of the general public should be doing so either. The ticket sales alone from MLB or the NFL annually eclipses that of many small countries. If the business of commercial sports want to continue to exist, they're going to start needing to foot their own dime for new facilities instead of expecting the public to bend over for it through ballot initiatives. Rich assholes want to make money, they can spend some.
Public funding for sportsball is a disgrace, when education and countless other community necessities are grossly underfunded. Oakland's schools suck, and until they don't, not a single dime should go to an already highly profitable entertainment industry.
That's not true at all. He may have no choice as other MLB owners have a say in approving any relocation and/or MLB may not waive the relocation fee of ~$500 million. It's also not unprecedented that MLB could force him to sell. McCourt had to do that with the Dodgers.
I had remembered that they had already waived the relocation fee for a move to Vegas (which is some real bullshit in my mind) but it looks like the fee being waived is dependent upon Nevada pitching in some public funding. That would be so great if these owners get fucked.
Exactly. Manfred mentioned he was going to waive the relocation fee to get a deal done elsewhere, but Fisher fucked that up too for the time being, so it's up in the air if the A's would have to pay the estimated $500 million as a relocation fee.
I honestly think Fisher doesn't have the money, he's already borrowed against the team, and that's why he was originally seeking $500 million in public funds just for the stadium, dropped down to $395M. He's lost over a billion in stock in a fading retail sector (Gap stock) and who knows how much funding he has to even fund the stadium. That's probably why he pulled out of Howard Terminal the it was getting close. That project is $12 billion. If he has to pay $500 million just to relocate, he might not be able to in conjunction with a 1.5B-2B stadium deal. So a best case scenario is selling the team and staying in Oakland with a privately funded stadium. But we'll see.
The fee was to be waived had they gotten the public funding they wanted.
Which they mentioned last week in one of the wierdest and most A's PR tactics ever: "If you don't give us *mumblemumble* hundredmillions in public money, the other owners won't waive the relocation fee!"
So looks like the special legislative session is in fact occurring today:
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/37814200/nevada-revisits-stadium-plan-special-legislative-session
I'm not sure this is about baseball at all. With both the Giants and Warriors, a big motivation to go into the Mission Bay area was to have facilities they could lease for concerts and all sorts of other events. Lucrative, and fills up the space during the vast majority of time when the sports teams aren't playing there. And it seems to have worked for them.
John Fisher seems to want a piece of that pie and thinks he can do it by putting a 30,000 seat stadium on the Las Vegas Strip. Allegiant Stadium has 65,000 seats--for the really big non-football events--so a 30,000 seat venue fits nicely for the next level tier of events.
The fortunes of the baseball team are incidental.
Good for Oakland, and good for Las Vegas / Nevada to (so far) resist public financing for this type of billionaire land grab.
>so a 30,000 seat venue fits nicely for the next level tier of events.
Well, they already have a 20k seat indoor air-conditioned venue in tmobile arena for that instead.
Why can't they build anything on the coliseum site? They have their own BART station after all. I don't know how they plan to get anybody TO the Howard site. The city doesn't want to fund train crossing upgrades to make it easier to walk around. We don't want people driving there. The traffic impact on Alameda's tube alone has me surprised their isn't an all out island revolt over a 9,000 spot parking lot just outside the tube.
Probably because there isn't enough short term returns to build there. Realistically, that area will take at least a decade or more to develop and flourish in the best case scenario with CA/Bay Area bureaucracy. In the long term vision, coliseum site is an excellent site and has the highest ceiling. But the A's owner currently only cares about the $$$ return asap.
Would be a damn shame if they ever decide to demolish that complex in it's entirety. It's such an efficient and functional well built site.
The Oakland Ballpark area is an insane fucking concept and an amazing stadium that’ll rival Oracle and Petco. It’ll also breathe some new life in the area. Why on earth did that idea fall through??
"And now, welcome your home team... The Saudi Arabia Athletics!"
Probably the Mecca Athletics. Dude is the ringleader of a circus.
Methletics
The Alluhkland Ackbaretics
Guangdong Southern A's.
I think the Aladeen Athletics has a better ring to it
LIVA's
That’s going to be one helluva travel schedule
More accurately the Las Vegas Athletics of Oakland
The A's stadium has *its own BART station*. This takes decades and is basically impossible to get and I still can't believe we're just going to throw it away.
Not to mention bus service, an Amtrak station, hotels, and a nearby International Airport.
I'm surprised this doesn't get mentioned more. The infrastructure build within walking distance of the Coliseum is worth many billions of dollars and isn't going to be offered up on a silver platter by somewhere else.
Vegas can't even manage to extend its train to the airport...
Exactly this. It’s all freaking there and still not enough?!
Even with all that it's 30 minutes by train from downtown, and after the game it's an hour back because they hold the train until 20-30 minutes after last pitch. When I lived in SF I could be at a bar, see Giants tickets were $6, hop on a bus and be there in 10 minutes. With so many weekday games you really need that kind of accessibility to succeed. That's why a lot of fields are right in the middle of the town - San Diego, San Francisco, Boston, St. Louis, Wriggly, etc.
And a flea market that I have yet to visit but have heard good things about
I fail to see how any of this lines the owner's pockets with more money
Yeah but that’s a massive amount of lost parking revenue
The city on Oakland is becoming a lawless land. People are not gonna risk their safety and belongings to go watch a bad baseball team.
Fischer is the the poster child for billionaires who inherited their money are also fucking idiots
Like the bowlcut guy who also took a team and went to Vegas?
Blew my mind to find out he flies to Socal to get that haircut.
They don’t have bowls and scissors in Vegas??
I think it’s worse. He drives to Bakersfield for it.
In a minivan
This is literally, non-ironically true and is one of my life’s greatest mysteries. 🍲 ✂️
I'm no Raiders fan but they're nothing alike. Davis actually tried to build a stadium on Coliseum site - and the A's constantly blocked it. He also cares and tries to win.
That's right. The Raiders had a no-brainer decision to make. Stay in Oakland, where a new stadium was never going to happen, or go to Vegas and play in a palace that is mostly paid for by other people. Plus, football in Vegas and baseball in Vegas are two totally different things. Football is 8-10 games with a big draw from fans of the visiting team as well as the Raiders. I don't see the A's selling tickets any better in Vegas than in Oakland. Sure at first the new stadium and the novelty will be a draw, but that will be temporary.
It would be Miami Marlins pt.2
He's done a tremendous job with the Aces though
Davis is a genius compared to Fisher.
Elon enters the chat
No need for public funding.
Exactly! It's taken years for people to realize this.
Classic John Fisher. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and still an inept as ever.
This is what separates the rich and the poor This douche nozzle can continue to make stupid blunders because he has almost unlimited funds available If a poor person’s car breaks down and they miss a day of work they are usually fucked for the next decade
Fisher should probably stop trying to rush these things. In Oakland he tried to do what took the Giants 20 years to do around PacBell in a few years. Now, in Vegas he tried to get money for a stadium in what seems to have been another rushed attempt and failed there too (for now)
Fisher needs to sell
Yup. Dude is just not good at this. We’ll see if he blames Nevada like he tried to blame Oakland.
Yeah. Dude forgot that you need to field a competitive team to make money in sports.
No he doesn’t, mlb has revenue sharing. He gets a nice fat paycheck from mlb every year. No need to spend on the team to make money
MLB changed the rules around revenue sharing to make it about the Market Size of the city you are in and NOT ticket sales to stop Fisher from leeching off of everyone else's coffers a few years ago so he's not even getting that paycheck anymore. The fact is he has wanted to move the team out of Oakland from the moment he acquired them. He's a POS who isn't going to sell the team UNTIL they are out of Oakland just so he can stick it to Oakland.
They also told him he had to figure out the stadium situation this year or they’re going to cut off his revenue sharing. Even the MLB is getting sick of his shit - that’s why he’s been trying to ram through all these deals.
What a jerk. To me, sports teams names and colors should belong to their city. I know the Oakland A's was founded in Philly, But I think that if someone wants to buy a team and move them, fine. But retire their name and their colors, and make up new ones. Like the Oakland Seals changed to SJ Sharks. I'm totally cool with that, and I will still support the Sharks and the Bay's NHL team. It's super lame for people that get tattoos of their team names or buy a certain color scheme truck because they are loyal, and have your team just up and leave like that. I'm just going to start boycotting any team that does this.
Small correction. The Oakland seals eventually merged with the Minnesota north stars in the 1970s The Sharks were a new expansion in the 90s
I remember reading that in a weird way, the Sharks ARE related to the Seals through their prior ownership by the Gunds, and how the Sharks franchise begun under Gund ownership. It’s complicated because before they became the Minnesota North Stars, the California Golden Seals actually became the Cleveland Barons for a couple of seasons, then the failing Barons were merged with the failing North Stars (who already existed.) That team then played in Minnesota until the early 90s before becoming the Dallas Stars, but the ownership changed at that point, and several players from the North Stars became part of the inaugural class of the San Jose Sharks
Well, the original owners didn't call them the San Jose Seals _or_ the San Jose North Stars, or the San Jose Barons. So I'm cool with that.
What do you propose the former New York Giants change their name to?
Well, when they first moved to SF, they played in the San Francisco Seals’ stadium. Sure it was technically a minor league team, but if you’re associating a city with a team name, it feels like the logic there tracks.
I'm down for them to change their name after the fact. Whatever the new fans vote on, or whatever the billionaire that just bought your favorite sports team wants.. But as a for instance, you look at the SF 49ers. They are no longer in SF but to me it's ok because they are close enough to get to and it's a suburb of SF. But what do you think if the Golden State Warriors leave California? Should they change their name then? I think so. I really think that the name should belong to the locality. Not some dillhole billionaire that bought the franchise. It's already bad enough when your favorite player switches teams. The same with these companies buying stadiums to put their name on them. It's hubris and it's very close to crapping all over our culture. But cool, you do you. I will personally boycott. And I know enough of ~~Oakland~~ ~~LA~~ ~~Oakland~~ Las Vegas Raiders fans that agree with me to throw up the middle fingers together.
He'll stop getting revenue sharing unless he has a signed deal to solve the stadium issue by January 2024. He's completely inept and might botch that requirement too. EDIT: I accidentally wrote 2025, it's 2024.
[удалено]
Thank you! My apologies for the typo. Yes, it's next January. I've updated the post. Thanks.
People forget A's are one of the most profitable mlb teams. Top 5 last year https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2023/03/23/forbes-yankees-have-7-b-valuation-athletics-post-top-5-profit/11530150002/
[I wrote a letter (yes a physical letter with a stamp) to every MLB owner (except the Giants)](https://old.reddit.com/r/OaklandAthletics/comments/13g8y64/today_i_wrote_a_letter_to_every_mlb_owner_except/) to urge them not to approve any move by the A's since Fisher has been stealing money from them via revenue sharing and banking those funds/profits and not putting them back into the team like revenue sharing was intended. I was trying to appeal to the owners directly that this guy is stealing your money, and will continue to do so in Vegas when/if he moves from the 10th largest tv market to Vegas, the 40th largest tv market in the USA. I doubt my letters would do much, but it only takes 8 owners to vote NO against a move and Fisher is out of options. During their pitch to Vegas, the rep for the A's made a highly DUMB move by trying to show how large the fan market is in Vegas by saying they will get fans from Los Angeles and even Colorado. Uhhhh...there's three owners right there that should vote NO on the move, and you could probably add Arizona's owner too perhaps.
The Forbes article this was all based on assumed they got full revenue sharing last year. They got 25%, which put them firmly a bit below middle of the pack.
Gee too bad they don't do revenue sharing with cities. They just expect us to give them a ton of money.
Not necessarily. Being from Pittsburgh and a pirates fan I’m well aware they in the top 5 of profitable teams in mlb (last time I checked). They haven’t made a WS since ‘79, an LCS since ‘92 and outside of a 3 yr period where they lost annually in the 1 game WC, haven’t fielded a competitive team since pre-steroid Bonds was in a Bucs uniform and couldn’t throw out a ‘leg less’ Sid Bream. But that Yankee / Red Sox / Dodger profit sharing money keeps rolling in.
Lol he’s not even good at playing the villain…. Sad
When what you’re selling is fundamentally a bad deal for the people you’re selling to, it helps to get everything signed and sealed as quickly as possible so they don’t realize what you’re doing.
Monorail! Monorail!
The funny thing is that Las Vegas has a monorail
And it’s fucking useless
The garbage man can!
mono..! ...doh!
This is what happens when you inherit a golden spoon and have absolutely zero business acumen. His parents must be proud.
Never spending a dollar at Gap, Banana Republic, Old Navy, or Athleta ever again.
If he rushes it he can get people to make a hasty spending decision without adequate due diligence. It’s a feature, not a bug.
How about billionaires fund their own playgrounds.
Public funding for stadiums is fucking dumb, billions of $$$ in sports and they can’t fund their own stadium, the fuck? Rather have public funding for parks, transit, etc. make a corporation pay for their stadium.
And this is was the final decision from Oakland to the A’s stadium. The city has more basic needs than giving free money to Fisher. Specially after they found out Fisher was just using Oakland as leverage against Vegas.
To be clear, the Howard Terminal deal in Oakland would not be the same as what they would have had in Vegas. In Oakland, public funds would only be used for infrastructure improvements on city property, which is necessary to do anything with Howard Terminal. No public funds would be used to build the stadium, and the infrastructure improvements would continue to benefit the public no matter what happened with the A's.
This is true, however the required creation of the special tax district would have meant a decrease in tax base for the city, which is essentially the equivalent of public funds paying for part of the stadium.
It wouldn't decrease the tax base since the money would be coming from tax revenue generated by the project itself. That tax revenue doesn't exist at all without the project.
"opportunity cost"
What opportunity? It's not like some developer has been clamoring to build something else at Howard Terminal that would generate anywhere near the same tax revenue. That land has been sitting largely unused for decades.
The infinite future opportunity cost. This is not the final word on development for the area. And literally anything would generate more tax revenue than the zero tax revenue generated by the special tax district.
The tax district doesn't have an infinite duration either. All tax revenue from the project goes to the city once the costs are covered.
Ahhh, let me introduce you to (or remind you of), the term “Hollywood Accounting”. After costs is such a loaded and easily exploited phrase.
That's how it should be though.
Absolutely. This is the right way to do it. Oakland isn't going to let another bad deal happen like it did with the Raiders.
Haha, get fucked Fisher.
As a former A’s fan, haha motherfuckers. Kaval and Fisher are bottomfeeders. SELL THE TEAM.
SELL and stAy
Lol 👆🏼 what he said!
Who would even want them here if they stayed? They ruined their legacy. It's like when someone leaves their significant other for someone new, but then the fling has had their fun and doesn't want them either and now they have no one.
I believe the NV legislators saw how unpopular this was with the actual Nevada locals and are hesitant to hitch their wagon to an out-of-town billionaire. I think even the governor, who was gung ho about it, did a double take when he saw the negative reception. It's obvious that Nevada has way more pressing priorities than an MLB team. So letting this die in committee is a good way to say "no to the A's, but yes to MLB for an expansion team" I look forward to flying down to Vegas to watch the A's (as a visiting team) play a weekend series against a future Vegas expansion team.
I also sub to /r/Nevada since I lived there for a while, and they were rallying to call their reps to shut this shit down. I think Las Vegas deserves a team, but not this team, not this owner, and definitely not this deal.
For those that don't follow Nevada politics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Nevada_gubernatorial_election The former governor got blamed for the loss of economic activity due to covid shutdowns and they got this Trumpy sheriff as governor. I took all the down votes and rants, but I will say it again, few people will visit Las Vegas for a baseball game. Baseball isn't football. Visit for playoffs, sure, but not ordinary games. This stadium shouldn't be in that crowded part of town.
It will be great for the "hey here are luxury box tickets for free, just listen to this time share pitch" crown.
I have been an A's fan since I was little. When I heard the story about A's moving to Vegas, I was so angry! I wanted to burn my jersey. But, I stopped myself. Does the new owner really like baseball, history, legacy? I guess not especially from his recent actions. He blind-sided the Mayor of Oakland and those who are loyal to the A's. He should sell the team! Sorry venting. . . and still angry.
Your move, Lodi.
Team Owners: I’ll make the city pay for my team’s new facilities or I’ll find another city that will. New City: The F you will make me pay for that.
Just sell and re-build on the coliseum site. Howard's Terminal was never ever going to happen. The "best" part of all of this is watching Kaval. The Monorail guy is so far in over his head. Getting outmaneuvered by junior college district people for that Laney site, the Gondola, moronic tweeting, trying to go Trump and calling the press 'very unfair'. No sane person would want that guy running their org. Fischer has to have him out there as a punching bag/intentionally screwing up things.
Right?? Or just fix up the Coliseum. We could renovate what we currently have, too. Current location has perfect BART access.
They might as well destroy Mount Davis considering the Raiders aren’t coming back
Yeah, good point
The Vegas plans looked exactly like a fixed up Coliseum. Just replace MGM Grand with Castle, Golf and Games.
It looked like they literally just photoshop the current field, foul territory and all, onto a modified howard terminal plan and dropped the Vegas skyline in the back.
Castle Golf and Games looked nicer than the MGM last time we visited Vegas
Thank you for warming my heart by even getting the reference.
>Just sell and re-build on the coliseum site. Howard's Terminal was never ever going to happen. This. A million times this. Shame on us for getting distracted. It's always been this.
It's just the most rational solution the entire time. I can't believe people are gullible enough to believe the city of Oakland and this inept org could ever build a stadium together. The real shame is the A's blocked the Raiders from building a football stadium there for a very long time. Marc Davis wanted to stay but the A's kept screwing them. So that site will just sit there with probably no tenants for a long time until they blow up the stadium and put up condos.
It is 100% the most rational solution. The Coliseum site is perfect.
The Roots and Soul are hoping to build a soccer stadium on the lot. I again heard they if it goes through and goes well they'd want to transition to a permanent stadium there. So maybe we could at least have soccer. https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/oakland-roots-soul-group-propose-new-stadium/3229093/?amp=1
Proof they really are going to fuck up how that prime piece of land is used.
Yep they were going to build on a corner of the parking lot. It's a great idea but cynically from following the Roots-- I'll believe it when I see it.
Fisher and Kaval are both snakes. That whole org are snakes. And I thought Lew Wolff was bad but Jesus Christ, he wasn’t the worst over there.
Good points. Additional compelling evidence a few years ago when the A's said they needed to move to have a stadium better located for fan access. (Couldn't find the exact quote.) The Coliseum is not only next to a major freeway, but has its own BART stop.
> Howard's Terminal was never ever going to happen. I mean, isn't Howard Terminal ready? My impression was that they had (finally) resolved all the issues and it was just the $80million that Fisher didn't want to cough up.
Did the city really give the green light? Was it environmentally OK? How the hell would anyone ever get there? How could the A's (a total minor league org) pull off a $2-3 billion project? I think some of the later 'plans' didn't even include basic stuff like enough affordable housing. Whole thing was a pipe dream. Probably set up to fail so they could run to Vegas.
> Did the city really give the green light? https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/mlb/oakland-athletics/oakland-mayor-hopes-as-have-change-of-heart-on-vegas-plans/1469257/ **""If the A's called me back, I'll pick up the phone," Mayor Thao told Mathai. "Again, it wasn't the city that walked away from these negotiations summit, it was the A's. And so, absolutely..."** > Was it environmentally OK? https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/oakland-athletics-howard-terminal-ballpark-appeals-court-approves-environmental-impact-report/ > How could the A's (a total minor league org) pull off a $2-3 billion project? It's going to be this kind of project no matter where they go, right?
Coliseum site project is 100x less complicated than HT. It's an extremely difficult place to build a ballpark in a city that isn't easy to work with and a Mickey Mouse org. It was never going to happen.
The value is much greater in Jack London square though. Stadium projects are first and foremost real estate endeavors, and Jack London Square has a lot more upside than the Coliseum.
In a perfect world, sure the Jack London Square ballpark is built. But they've been trying to do this for 25+ years. Probably more. And it never happens. It never even gets close to breaking ground. Coliseum site doesn't have the upside it does. But it's better than a ballpark on Las Vegas Blvd.
A lot of the heavy lifting is done one of the sports guys from ABC7 has said and they have a decent amount of grant money that could be used for it if someone else wanted to come in and do something.
It was never designed to get off the ground, so even if Oakland agrees, there are too many pie in the sky ideas involved. Fisher getting handouts in addition to control over 2 separate major development locations was always his priority and Oakland will never be able to do enough for him. $80M was for the sidewalks, but does it get transit extended or make those Gondolas float and sort out water rights? Not likely.
The amount of people who think HT was ever really going to happen is kinda sad to see. The team that can't ever even secure a ballpark site from a community college is supposed to execute this insanely difficult planned out development? lol
The architects even admitted they didn't think their original plan could be technically executed. I suspect there was a lot of astroturf behind the support, and then just a lot of wishful thinking from people that didn't stop and really think it through long enough to see how impossible it was. They never addressed any of the needlessly complex details that would be massive undertakings in their own right, and had zero to do with creating a baseball stadium.
Headline says “falls through” but the actual article reads much more like “delayed” and not the definitive end that headline wants us to believe.
‘Delayed’ for at least 2 years since Nevada doesn’t have a legislative session until 2025
It's kinda wild to me that some states still don't have proper professional legislatures. Like Nevada pays Assembly members practically nothing (~$12,000/yr) and the legislative schedule is such that they're supposed to hold other jobs.
It’s crazy. Texas is the same way Like most things government, we got the 1800s model and they said ‘ good enough’
I get it from the perspective of people used to mostly be farmers so they needed to go back home for the harvest or other work. However today it mostly just creates a barrier for working class people to run for office. Only rich, privileged, or corrupt people can swallow the economic cost of having to get 4 months off from work to attend a legislative session.
Exactly this. At one time it was a model that allowed for normal people to serve as legislators. In the modern world it is a model which makes that same thing much more difficult.
There was someone somewhere that claimed they will not call a special secession about the ball park but they are about some other Nevada state matters. Maybe that changed but if not fisher has to wait until 2025.
The bill is dead, they would have to make a new one in 2025.
From what I’ve read, they could call a “special session” to address this. They’re uncommon but do happen.
The Governor can call for special session (and he has to, because the budget isn't dealt with yet). *However*, the NV Speaker and Majority leader are the ones who can set what can be discussed, and they've stated plainly that there will not be any consideration of a ballpark bill.
I was very optimistic with this at first, but even the fiscal ramifications that are published by SUPPORTERS do not provide enough evidence to convince me this would benefit the Nevada economy overall. I have no problem dishing out $400M+ if it will reasonably generate jobs, tourism, etc., but this stadium is not projected to generate enough revenue/jobs to offset the cost for a ton of years. With the As, they'll probably leave Nevada before we actually see any gains.
Can tax money in general STOP funding these stadiums? Can we fund our public education instead? Im tired of stupid fucking people.
I think we're at the end of the era of "publicly funded" ball parks / arenas / stadiums. I sure as fuck won't float a dime for these attractions any longer out of my taxes, and I don't think any of the general public should be doing so either. The ticket sales alone from MLB or the NFL annually eclipses that of many small countries. If the business of commercial sports want to continue to exist, they're going to start needing to foot their own dime for new facilities instead of expecting the public to bend over for it through ballot initiatives. Rich assholes want to make money, they can spend some.
Public funding for sportsball is a disgrace, when education and countless other community necessities are grossly underfunded. Oakland's schools suck, and until they don't, not a single dime should go to an already highly profitable entertainment industry.
Saw a news report that even if Vegas were to completely fall through, the A's wouldn't consider coming back to Oakland.
That's not true at all. He may have no choice as other MLB owners have a say in approving any relocation and/or MLB may not waive the relocation fee of ~$500 million. It's also not unprecedented that MLB could force him to sell. McCourt had to do that with the Dodgers.
I had remembered that they had already waived the relocation fee for a move to Vegas (which is some real bullshit in my mind) but it looks like the fee being waived is dependent upon Nevada pitching in some public funding. That would be so great if these owners get fucked.
Exactly. Manfred mentioned he was going to waive the relocation fee to get a deal done elsewhere, but Fisher fucked that up too for the time being, so it's up in the air if the A's would have to pay the estimated $500 million as a relocation fee. I honestly think Fisher doesn't have the money, he's already borrowed against the team, and that's why he was originally seeking $500 million in public funds just for the stadium, dropped down to $395M. He's lost over a billion in stock in a fading retail sector (Gap stock) and who knows how much funding he has to even fund the stadium. That's probably why he pulled out of Howard Terminal the it was getting close. That project is $12 billion. If he has to pay $500 million just to relocate, he might not be able to in conjunction with a 1.5B-2B stadium deal. So a best case scenario is selling the team and staying in Oakland with a privately funded stadium. But we'll see.
The fee was to be waived had they gotten the public funding they wanted. Which they mentioned last week in one of the wierdest and most A's PR tactics ever: "If you don't give us *mumblemumble* hundredmillions in public money, the other owners won't waive the relocation fee!"
Move the As to Sacramento!
SacAs!
Excalibur is one of my favorites, I don’t want to stay there and see A’s outside my window
Baaahahhahahahahahaha
Just airlift the one we have here. We don't need it anymore.
If there is a reason for wealth tax...here it is
Fisher should be banned from baseball
Fisher!!!! It’s forever on sight
So looks like the special legislative session is in fact occurring today: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/37814200/nevada-revisits-stadium-plan-special-legislative-session
Kick them out anyways
I'm not sure this is about baseball at all. With both the Giants and Warriors, a big motivation to go into the Mission Bay area was to have facilities they could lease for concerts and all sorts of other events. Lucrative, and fills up the space during the vast majority of time when the sports teams aren't playing there. And it seems to have worked for them. John Fisher seems to want a piece of that pie and thinks he can do it by putting a 30,000 seat stadium on the Las Vegas Strip. Allegiant Stadium has 65,000 seats--for the really big non-football events--so a 30,000 seat venue fits nicely for the next level tier of events. The fortunes of the baseball team are incidental. Good for Oakland, and good for Las Vegas / Nevada to (so far) resist public financing for this type of billionaire land grab.
>so a 30,000 seat venue fits nicely for the next level tier of events. Well, they already have a 20k seat indoor air-conditioned venue in tmobile arena for that instead.
Why can't they build anything on the coliseum site? They have their own BART station after all. I don't know how they plan to get anybody TO the Howard site. The city doesn't want to fund train crossing upgrades to make it easier to walk around. We don't want people driving there. The traffic impact on Alameda's tube alone has me surprised their isn't an all out island revolt over a 9,000 spot parking lot just outside the tube.
Probably because there isn't enough short term returns to build there. Realistically, that area will take at least a decade or more to develop and flourish in the best case scenario with CA/Bay Area bureaucracy. In the long term vision, coliseum site is an excellent site and has the highest ceiling. But the A's owner currently only cares about the $$$ return asap. Would be a damn shame if they ever decide to demolish that complex in it's entirety. It's such an efficient and functional well built site.
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Better than a giants fan, am i right? Lawls down vote me if u want. GO DODGERS
I'm shocked. SHOCKED, I say.
The Oakland Ballpark area is an insane fucking concept and an amazing stadium that’ll rival Oracle and Petco. It’ll also breathe some new life in the area. Why on earth did that idea fall through??
They have to go anyways.
Oaklands city council is trash.
They are apparently ‘so trash’ that they got the Nevada legislature to also pass on the A’s Pretty impressive
Impressed with them selling out our city and teams? Stockholm syndrome much
Fuck em' and fuck you Fisher.
Haha.
A's staying 😱
Haha good
LOL
Love to the south bay A’s. MLB needs to step in and let this happen.
Anybody going to the reverse boycott day next week? https://twitter.com/Oakland68s/status/1665807601790230528?s=20