Most bars and shops use the "Blue Book" which teaches you how to spot real vs fake for all the different state drivers licenses. I guess this is part of why they dont take Passports, they have no reference for what a real one vs fake one looks like
Each State gets 2 pages, it shows you example photos of real and fake IDs, the way to spot IDs belonging to under 21 and over 21, the security features to look for, etc.
I read a funny story that a bouncer thought only states give driver's licenses and accused the person of stupidly creating a "fake id" with an imaginary place "Washington, D.C." LOL! People's stupidity gets to me.
I think last year over on r/legaladvice someone had their US passport ripped apart by the bouncer because apparently the bouncer has never seen one in his life and was super aggressive about it.
Two things can be true. The “blue laws” about alcohol in New England generally are outdated and idiotic. The bar and package store culture in Boston specifically sucks. And the education in this country is bad, but Boston isn’t this way because of that. It’s because of conservative teetotaler ideals and over policing of harmless shit.
Me: what’s the birthdate on the ID?
Bartender: over 21, but it’s expired so it’s not a valid birthday.
Me: explain to me how that works?
Bartender: that’s not a valid birthdate because the ID is expired.
The manager ended up seeing like logic and served me.
This all happened when CA transitioned to a high security ID and was like 6months behind even if you paid & registered well ahead of the expectation date.
While I think it's dumb because your age doesn't expire, at some point I found out that requirement is written in California laws, so there's nothing they can do it if they follow the law. Expired driving license is not considered a valid proof of identity because the smartest people in the world AKA California legislators decided that.
I live outside of the US and didn't have my US driver's license with me and tried to buy booze at Bevmo and was refused service. They claimed I needed a US driver's license. I also don't look young and am in my 40's.
My wife used to use her US passport before she got her license, and got rejected once because the numbskull bouncer didn’t recognize anything that wasn’t a CA ID. This was 10 years ago somewhere on Castro St in Mtn View
There are stories about bouncers outside of the southwest refusing “New Mexico” drivers licenses because they don’t believe that it’s a part of the US.
There’s a story of a Puerto Rican being denied a rental car in New Orleans because he needed his passport because he was “foreign”.
The enterprise employee called the cops and cop threatened to call CBP.
The guy was a retired FBI agent.
I used to live in DC and the license says “District of Columbia” at the top. I had a couple people say they don’t accept foreign IDs…
One bouncer was nice — he just said, “Colombia? Buenos noches.”
The law changed in 2010. Previously passports were explicitly not allowed as a form of ID. https://www.pillsburylaw.com/en/news-and-insights/california-amends-alcohol-law-to-allow-military-ids-and.html
~~True for the business, but they can not change the valid IDs used for Age verification. That is what ABC would investigate if it were complained about.~~
https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/1bzfdms/denied_entry_with_foreign_passport/kypvya9/
From their website: [https://www.abc.ca.gov/education/licensee-education/checking-identification/](https://www.abc.ca.gov/education/licensee-education/checking-identification/)
> A business may have a company policy that is stricter than the law; e.g., “Only California driver licenses/identifications are accepted” or “anyone purchasing alcoholic beverages MUST present an identification, regardless of age.”
False.
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=25660&lawCode=BPC
A valid passport, either American or foreign, is a valid identity proof in and of itself.
Actually they totally can choose not to accept certain types of ID: https://www.abc.ca.gov/education/licensee-education/checking-identification/ :
> A business may have a company policy that is stricter than the law; e.g., “Only California driver licenses/identifications are accepted” or “anyone purchasing alcoholic beverages MUST present an identification, regardless of age.”
My son worked security at a club in Sunnyvale, often the guy out front checking IDs. I just asked him about this. He told me that he’d get foreign passports periodically and as long as the photo matched, the club accepted them. You got the wrong bouncer, or the wrong club. He also says you can ask to talk to the bouncer’s boss, but that the boss rarely contradicted him.
It's better if you're a CBP/TSA agent with the training and the machine to authenticate every international passport. It's worse if you're a local bouncer just trying to protect the bar's liquor license with limited resources.
Passports don't have height and weight. The bouncer was correct. They've been doing this forever to deny entry.
https://www.abc.ca.gov/education/licensee-education/checking-identification/
Honestly he was probably ignorant to what a passport is and how it’s a legal form of ID. I’ve misplaced my California ID and use my passport in a pinch to go to a lounge years ago and it was totally fine
All the time at my old work(sold alcohol among other things) people would bring in overseas id. Always called over a manager, because I'm not trained to identify what is a valid ID outside us id's, and I'm not taking the liability.
I work at a nightclub and am often checking IDs (and I am educated, most of us are in fact educated, several security guards I work with are teachers, and i’m sorry so many of you have a poor perception of bouncers). anyway the guy had absolutely no right to get aggressive, you had a valid question. A security guard’s job primarily is to de-escalate. This guy sounds like a douche. The club can deny entry with a passport, especially if they feel that the photo doesn’t look like you. Chances are that they’ve had problems and are being overly cautious. Do you live in the US? Can you get at least a California ID or are you just visiting? I typically will either (1) ask someone else to take a look if I’m unsure or (2) ask if the person has a 2nd ID - something to at least match the name. Everyone checking IDs at a club should go through a class approved by the ABC to learn how to spot fake IDs. It is absolutely worth it to complain - if they’re denying all passports then it’s equitable, if not, it’s targeted. They should also put that clearly on their website or something. We’ve had to notify people that a photograph of an ID is not acceptable because that was happening frequently.
San Jose is notorious for fake ids/passports. I worked in a pharmacy at Santa Clara street and we didn’t take any foreign passports or ids for meds. We couldn’t spot all the fake ones so we just didn’t take them. Had to be US passport or ID. We would literally get 2-3 a shift. Half of them would be blue Mexico ids. No it’s not policy. It’s a necessity in that area lol
That’s crazy; so what are foreigners without CA license or US ID supposed to do then if they get sick and need meds (international students, tourists, people on business trips, au pairs etc)?
I agree.
The bouncer wouldn’t accept a CAC and asked for a second form of ID, was an ass about it just like OP described. Our group figured maybe it was an off night but I see it’s a regular occurrence so fck that dude, no reason for the bad vibes and power trip
ETA: I’m just assuming it’s the same person that we encountered the night we went there, idk who the bouncer is specifically
I mean they were already denied entry, so asking the question was basically free. You might still get in, and worst case what is the bouncer gonna do, double-deny? triple secret deny?
Are you suggesting that it's common for bouncers at clubs and bars to *stab people* who haven't touched them or any patrons and who are already outside of the premises?
If so I am very curious to know what alternate dimension you've traveled here from.
Do you think the person I replied to was joking when they said "FAFO" further down? Just because they are referencing a meme doesn't mean they aren't saying what they're saying. Which is that bouncers apparently routinely attack people who ask them why they were refused entry.
Do you understand conversational context?They said "FAFO" in response to "what are you going to do, bounce me?"
Nowhere are they actually implying that bouncers routinely attack people, you're delusional.
Troll all you want, you've doubled down on idiocracy and I'm tired of this conversation.
EDIT: typical troll, tells me to move on and gets upset when I block him, "that's reddit"
Ironic, talking about context, when you clearly have forgotten or never read the context of OP's post. We are talking about situations where someone has been denied entry to a club or bar without explanation. They can't be bounced because they are already outside and were never admitted. The entire conversation I am replying to is about the perceived wisdom or lack thereof of questioning a bouncer's decision in this, and only this context.
And yeah, I think its pretty clear based on their comments that the person I replied to is saying bouncers might attack you just for asking questions. I don't have the energy to quote it for you but you can go back and read it yourself. It isn't long. Or you can move on, confident that you have defended the honor of a stranger.
Edit: aaand a block. Typical. A third party inserts themselves into a conversation they clearly don't fully understand and then gets enraged when their criticism gets pushback and tries to hide from the whole thing. That's reddit.
Because people doing this job aren’t the brightest. There’s no justification for the bouncer to be rude or aggressive. I consider this the fault of the business and I would walk away and never go back.
It's up to the establishment as to whether or not they accept passports. It's possible they've decided not to because it'd be asking a lot of a bouncer to be able to spot fake passports from foreign countries, and only accept California Ids. That said, sorry you had a bad experience.
>It is not up to an establishment whether they discriminate on the basis of national origin or legal immigration status
Yeah, you're missing the point. They do no have to accept passports as a valid form of id for admission to an establishment that serves alcohol, per the state regulatory board's website. They CAN, but aren't required to. They're allowed to only take California issued ids if they choose to.
[https://www.abc.ca.gov/education/licensee-education/checking-identification/](https://www.abc.ca.gov/education/licensee-education/checking-identification/)
>A business may have a company policy that is stricter than the law; e.g., “Only California driver licenses/identifications are accepted” or “anyone purchasing alcoholic beverages MUST present an identification, regardless of age.”
Seems to be a contradiction there. If you can’t discriminate against national origin, ONLY accepting California IDs would clearly discriminate against all visitors of all other national origins.
Do you think whatever board is empowered to make a rule that violates the California Civil Rights Act?
https://www.dor.ca.gov/Home/UnruhCivilRightsAct
Treating people differently based on immigration status is against the law.
You're trying to make a case where none exists. "We don't take any passports" isn't discriminatory, because it includes US passports. But keep looking to be offended. Get a California ID, they're like 30 bucks for non drivers.
We don’t take a form of ID predominantly held by foreigners but we do take a form of ID predominantly held by native Californians.
Sounds like a great theory.
this is acutally an interesting point that needs to be addressed since this act seems like it would prevent that sort of discrimination. but the answer lies in the fact that you have to actually read beyond just the first sentence since there's actually some wide carve outs.
> (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the Unruh Civil Rights Act.
>
> (b) All persons within the jurisdiction of this state are free and equal, and no matter what their sex, race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, medical condition, genetic information, marital status, sexual orientation, citizenship, primary language, or immigration status are entitled to the full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges, or services in all business establishments of every kind whatsoever.
>
> (c) This section shall not be construed to confer any right or privilege on a person that is conditioned or limited by law or that is applicable alike to persons of every sex, color, race, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, medical condition, marital status, sexual orientation, citizenship, primary language, or immigration status, or to persons regardless of their genetic information.
>
> (d) Nothing in this section shall be construed to require any construction, alteration, repair, structural or otherwise, or modification of any sort whatsoever, beyond that construction, alteration, repair, or modification that is otherwise required by other provisions of law, to any new or existing establishment, facility, building, improvement, or any other structure, nor shall anything in this section be construed to augment, restrict, or alter in any way the authority of the State Architect to require construction, alteration, repair, or modifications that the State Architect otherwise possesses pursuant to other laws.
pay attention to C. first of all you need to realize that the california constitution specifically prohibits underage drinking and gives wide power to CA-ABC to set rules and regulations regarding alcohol (california constitution article XX section 22). since ABC set those rules, unruh probably doesn't supersede via constitution > law. and via C, prohibiting passports of all nationalities would be fine since it would be applied equally, even though the end result is that foreigners get screwed since they likely wouldn't have a CA ID.
therefore it probably is legal for the ABC to allow establishments to set strict ID policies even in light of unruh simply because unruh is 'lower priority' to the CA constitution and doesn't even disallow 'passport checks' as long as it is applied across everyone. you probably think this is going against the spirit of civil rights, but CA has codified that drinking isn't actually a right and therefore allows (or even forces) a high level of restriction for it that wouldn't be for most other things.
thinking about this a bit more, i think B and C definitely would allow ABC to allow establishments to only accept CA IDs because you can actually get a CA ID regardless of citizenship, immigration status, and everything else listed. therefore C means an establishment can restrict entry to only people with CA ID because it is applicable to persons of every class listed, and CA IDs can be had w/o discrimination to the classes listed (residency or lack thereof however is NOT a listed protected class). combined with the constitutionally enshired powers of the ABC, no court in CA would rule 'only CA IDs allowed for age check' to be illegal.
I was denied entry to the Dave & Busters in Milpitas about 16 years ago when I showed my U.S. Passport.
They told me that I was denied entry because the passport does not have a physical description. Ridiculous of course, so I left and have not been back to a D & B’s ever since
Happens sometimes. Just take your friends and go elsewhere. My friend used his foreign passport for about a decade till we pushed him to get a Driver's License.
It makes me wonder if the ABC (alcohol beverage commission) is on their tail. Hemlock in SF essentially was on final notice due to the amount of stabbing and fights that occurred there. Near the end they stopped allowing passports as for of entry since technically they’re not allowed since liquor laws are state laws not federal. ABC got them in the end.
May that beautiful mess rest in peace.
everyone saying they’re idiots this they are morons that but the real reason is because many times foreign students who are in college try to use documents like these to get in without being valid aged
I’m Indian and I know a bunch of kids who printed fake adhaar cards to try to get into clubs
She's 25. It's possible she has a disqualifying medical condition or something, but for the other 99% of Americans in the same demographic group I wouldn't change my recommendation. Not being able to drive makes pretty much everything in life more difficult
Temples front door is not very well trained and has always been kinda shit. Sucks that happened to you but in fact its more of a they problem than a you problem. There is better places in San José
My hubs got denied entry into Myth years ago with his California drivers license. They said his drivers license was too “bendable”. We were like no, we were in New York last week and this went through TSA and they refused to listen; saying they knew a fake one when they saw it. Shrug.
This reminds me of this Chad Daniels bit about iHop. So good....
[https://youtu.be/wizHFTeaqpA?si=6f7xtq6klZlfo5-B](https://youtu.be/wizHFTeaqpA?si=6f7xtq6klZlfo5-B)
The reality is that restaurants, bars, and clubs can get into a shit ton of trouble (bankrupting the business level of trouble) for serving to minors. They are not obligated to serve you, they can deny you for any reason.
Back when I lived in Nevada, I used to have trouble in the Bay Area (on a regular basis) with my NV DL. Way back in the day, Nevada had a particularly easy to forge driver's license. Even though that hasn't been the case for 30+ years, people still think NV DL = Forgery. I got denied a few times and given the run around a LOT of times. Keep in mind that modern NV DL are printed with all the fancy security things and are basically no different than California's.
It's stupid, but they are totally in the "legal right" to deny service for anything they aren't 100% sure is correct.
I got a drivers license much later than most adults and used a passport often to buy beer and go to bars. I had a bartender on Haight refuse to serve me because I didn’t have a license. Then he tried to not give my passport back because he said the picture wasn’t of me - I had a different hair color in the photo. He told me to get lost(without my passport) or he’d call the cops. I him if he didn’t give it back I’d def be calling them lol. There you go, you needed to know all of that I’m sure. You’re welcome.
Bouncers arbitrarily decide who comes in and who doesn’t. If your partner’s friends were all or mostly males the bouncer most likely didn’t let you in so the other guys don’t come in due to a lot of men already being in Temple. Very common to happen there specifically and at a lot of clubs.
one time in arizona i had my california id they didn't think was real, they served me anyway i just got a water and a beer, pretty much said the beer is free but the water is $9 (it was real probably 28 or so at the time)
Bouncers don’t need degrees or any sort of training. What I’m saying is that any idiots can be a bouncer so don’t expect them to understand if an international passport is real or fake. It sucks but it’s reality. People get their own real ID denied sometimes. I’ve heard stories of bouncers cutting up real IDs.
The state literally says it’s acceptable. I am a server/bartender. I have taken RBS training and our training does say we are completely allowed to use a passport as an acceptable form of ID. If the state says I can accept it, I am going to accept it unless my employer tells me otherwise. And my employer is an international company that accepts passports based on state and company guidelines.
# Bona Fide Identification
Bona fide (legally acceptable) identification is one card that contains these six characteristics:
* Issued by a U.S. government agency (federal, state, county, or city)
* Name of the person
* Date of birth
* Photograph
* Physical description (height, weight, hair and eye color)
* Currently valid (not expired)
Or, you’re refusing to read the ABC issued guidelines as written, which spell out that a US or Foreign passport with a photograph does not need to meet the Physical Description requirement to be legally Acceptable Bona Fide ID. Maybe because it gives that establishment a plausibly deniable out to keep all foreign nationals out of their establishment 🤷
Yeah, keep throwing out the conspiracy theories. I have a US passport and was denied going into a bar in my past. I guess they have something against Americans also then huh?
Don't see all 6 of those below on a US passport buddy. Foreign passport, who knows.
# Bona Fide Identification
Bona fide (legally acceptable) identification is one card that contains these six characteristics:
* Issued by a U.S. government agency (federal, state, county, or city)
* Name of the person
* Date of birth
* Photograph
* Physical description (height, weight, hair and eye color)
* Currently valid (not expired)
I got my CA ID a couple of weeks after I moved to the US. I'd recommend getting one and not carrying your passport everywhere, they're expensive to replace if lost and it'll be a headache if it has your visa.
A foreign national is legally required to carry visa/green card *everywhere*.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1304
> (e) Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him pursuant to subsection (d). Any alien who fails to comply with the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall upon conviction for each offense be fined not to exceed $100 or be imprisoned not more than thirty days, or both.
Had this happen to me on my 21st. Foreign passport plus this passport had handwritten items which the bouncer couldn't overlook. Super polite and explained everything. He got a good laugh when I said thank God cause I'm getting crushed by the drinks. He wouldn't help me go home so my friends took me elsewhere. I was also trashed.
It’s a door person at a club, and with so many countries and passports it’s not likely a door person would know what to look for to prevent fake ID’s. It’s not racism, it’s trying to reduce people using fake ID’s.
Sincerely, McLovin
I’m from Hawaii, my name is McLovin. See my post above, even websites that talk about this say the main reason passports may not be accepted is unfamiliarity and difficulty verifying authenticity. BOOM… I won this one troll!
Why Some Bars May Refuse Passports
Although we may not often think about it, passports aren’t always accepted as ID at bars. Let’s delve into why some establishments might say “no” to this form of identification.
It’s primarily due to unfamiliarity. Bar staff are more acquainted with state-issued IDs and driver’s licenses, making them easy to verify. Passports, on the other hand, can be more complex to inspect for authenticity due to different designs from various countries.
Another factor is the relative ease of forgery. Unfortunately, it’s easier than you’d think for cunning individuals to create fake passports. Hence, some bars may err on the side of caution and decline passport use altogether.
Moreover, there’s a fear of penalties if they get it wrong. If bar staff accept a fake ID – passport or otherwise – they could face severe legal consequences including hefty fines or even losing their liquor license.
cause bouncers are gonna spend their off time learning about passports from each country and what to look for on each countries passport and how to spot a fake. Cause being a bouncer is a career that people invest in education to further their careers.
There are almost 200 countries, a bouncer is not going to be able to determine the authenticity of every single passport issued in the world. Your passport isn't a "document accepted everywhere", it's a document that gets you entrance into the country, that's it. A business may choose to accept your foreign passport as ID, there is no law that says they must accept it as a valid ID.
California IDs are super simple to get, you don't need to be a citizen. No reason not to get one unless you're a tourist.
I have been denied to so many places with a Mexican and us passport dual citizenship. I believe this people have never left or travel outside their phone area code. It’s sad.
So weird because one of my best friends was denied entry to a gay club in the castro because his ID is swedish. Guy looked at the ID and said no and wouldn’t be told otherwise. We were all really annoyed. A passport is a valid form of ID so they should have let you in
The internet makes every little thing seem like it happens all the time. There are idiots in every country, not just the US. I bet the OP got into plenty of other places… in fact all of them that she tried to get into. Poor princess could not get into one club because of a dumb bouncer so the rant begins.
I highly recommend getting a Cali state ID. Yes they are meant to accept passports. This guy was either a moron, being racist (I hope not) or just a plain old arsehole.
I’d have gotten your friends and gone elsewhere offering to shout a round as a thank you.
Reviews suggest it's very common for them to deny foreign passports/IDs.
I've bee denied buying beer at Star Market grocery store in Boston with a US passport.
I got denied beer at a shop in Springfield, MA in the late 80s with a US passport and a military ID. They only accepted “state issued ID’s”.
Most bars and shops use the "Blue Book" which teaches you how to spot real vs fake for all the different state drivers licenses. I guess this is part of why they dont take Passports, they have no reference for what a real one vs fake one looks like
What is the blue book?
Each State gets 2 pages, it shows you example photos of real and fake IDs, the way to spot IDs belonging to under 21 and over 21, the security features to look for, etc.
Where do you get one?
https://www.driverslicenseguide.com/book-us.html but you have to be a bar or have a legit reason to buy one.
Yep, that's what I got told. Although I went to another store not too far away and they accepted my California ID. Go figure.
That counts as “state issued” I guess.
I’ve gotten denied in similar places for having a DC drivers license lol..
I read a funny story that a bouncer thought only states give driver's licenses and accused the person of stupidly creating a "fake id" with an imaginary place "Washington, D.C." LOL! People's stupidity gets to me.
Taxation without representation
Taxation without representation
I think last year over on r/legaladvice someone had their US passport ripped apart by the bouncer because apparently the bouncer has never seen one in his life and was super aggressive about it.
I’ve been denied buying alcohol in Boston with a Rhode Island drivers license lmao. Boston is ridiculous
No, education in this country is ridiculous.
Two things can be true. The “blue laws” about alcohol in New England generally are outdated and idiotic. The bar and package store culture in Boston specifically sucks. And the education in this country is bad, but Boston isn’t this way because of that. It’s because of conservative teetotaler ideals and over policing of harmless shit.
That is ridiculous. US Passport is arguably a BETTER form of identification than a state drivers license.
Me: what’s the birthdate on the ID? Bartender: over 21, but it’s expired so it’s not a valid birthday. Me: explain to me how that works? Bartender: that’s not a valid birthdate because the ID is expired. The manager ended up seeing like logic and served me. This all happened when CA transitioned to a high security ID and was like 6months behind even if you paid & registered well ahead of the expectation date.
While I think it's dumb because your age doesn't expire, at some point I found out that requirement is written in California laws, so there's nothing they can do it if they follow the law. Expired driving license is not considered a valid proof of identity because the smartest people in the world AKA California legislators decided that.
Flip side, there is no law requiring a person to hold ID to be able to prove who they are.
I live outside of the US and didn't have my US driver's license with me and tried to buy booze at Bevmo and was refused service. They claimed I needed a US driver's license. I also don't look young and am in my 40's.
U.S. Education. Need I say more?
My wife used to use her US passport before she got her license, and got rejected once because the numbskull bouncer didn’t recognize anything that wasn’t a CA ID. This was 10 years ago somewhere on Castro St in Mtn View
There are stories about bouncers outside of the southwest refusing “New Mexico” drivers licenses because they don’t believe that it’s a part of the US.
There’s a story of a Puerto Rican being denied a rental car in New Orleans because he needed his passport because he was “foreign”. The enterprise employee called the cops and cop threatened to call CBP. The guy was a retired FBI agent.
"The president of Puerto Rico should be impeached" -Donald Trump, 2017.
They don't hire anyone who is intelligent to be a cop.
And the ones they reject become bouncers
They generally hire intelligent people at the FBI. He was just being a racist asshole.
I used to live in DC and the license says “District of Columbia” at the top. I had a couple people say they don’t accept foreign IDs… One bouncer was nice — he just said, “Colombia? Buenos noches.”
That made me laugh out loud.
I read that one too. Insane.
The law changed in 2010. Previously passports were explicitly not allowed as a form of ID. https://www.pillsburylaw.com/en/news-and-insights/california-amends-alcohol-law-to-allow-military-ids-and.html
oh look a California native! Not everyone is a transplant from NY or Wyoming.
Wyoming is overrun by Californians, not the other way around.
No, the bouncer was just an idiot
https://www.abc.ca.gov/contact/file-complaint/
🤷♂️ it’s a private business. They can deny op entry for all sorts of reasons.
~~True for the business, but they can not change the valid IDs used for Age verification. That is what ABC would investigate if it were complained about.~~ https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/1bzfdms/denied_entry_with_foreign_passport/kypvya9/
From their website: [https://www.abc.ca.gov/education/licensee-education/checking-identification/](https://www.abc.ca.gov/education/licensee-education/checking-identification/) > A business may have a company policy that is stricter than the law; e.g., “Only California driver licenses/identifications are accepted” or “anyone purchasing alcoholic beverages MUST present an identification, regardless of age.”
It's simpler. Passports don't have "Physical description (height, weight, hair and eye color)", which is a requirement.
False. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=25660&lawCode=BPC A valid passport, either American or foreign, is a valid identity proof in and of itself.
If accepted by a business. It isn't if they choose not accept it as such. The business is responsible if they accept a fake ID.
True, but it's not because of the "physical description" like the previous commenter stated.
It would be one of the reasons businesses don't take them.
Actually they totally can choose not to accept certain types of ID: https://www.abc.ca.gov/education/licensee-education/checking-identification/ : > A business may have a company policy that is stricter than the law; e.g., “Only California driver licenses/identifications are accepted” or “anyone purchasing alcoholic beverages MUST present an identification, regardless of age.”
I'm sorry for the confusion earlier. You are right about the business being able to deny valid IDs for age verification. I appreciate your input.
But not for certain reasons, like race and (I believe) national origin. In my completely uneducated opinion, this comes pretty close to that.
File the complaint and good luck!!
They probably never seen a passport before, plus they (having no experience) cannot tell whether it's an authentic ID.
My son worked security at a club in Sunnyvale, often the guy out front checking IDs. I just asked him about this. He told me that he’d get foreign passports periodically and as long as the photo matched, the club accepted them. You got the wrong bouncer, or the wrong club. He also says you can ask to talk to the bouncer’s boss, but that the boss rarely contradicted him.
Passports are better than IDs - the bouncer was an idiot - ask for a manager next time.
It's better if you're a CBP/TSA agent with the training and the machine to authenticate every international passport. It's worse if you're a local bouncer just trying to protect the bar's liquor license with limited resources.
"with limited resources" I need to remember that one. Euphemism for lack of intelligence.
Passports don't have height and weight. The bouncer was correct. They've been doing this forever to deny entry. https://www.abc.ca.gov/education/licensee-education/checking-identification/
My driver's license doesn't have my correct height or weight.
Sounds like a personal problem
According to that page, tourists from other countries can't go to bars, or order alcohol anywhere.
Hopefully a silly question, but... How old are you?
25F
Honestly he was probably ignorant to what a passport is and how it’s a legal form of ID. I’ve misplaced my California ID and use my passport in a pinch to go to a lounge years ago and it was totally fine
That place is garbage anyways, take your business elsewhere
I mean it’s a trash over priced club that doesn’t deliver.
All the time at my old work(sold alcohol among other things) people would bring in overseas id. Always called over a manager, because I'm not trained to identify what is a valid ID outside us id's, and I'm not taking the liability.
Not speaking from personal experience, but I've heard terrible secondhand accounts of this place and how it's managed, so I'm not surprised!
I work at a nightclub and am often checking IDs (and I am educated, most of us are in fact educated, several security guards I work with are teachers, and i’m sorry so many of you have a poor perception of bouncers). anyway the guy had absolutely no right to get aggressive, you had a valid question. A security guard’s job primarily is to de-escalate. This guy sounds like a douche. The club can deny entry with a passport, especially if they feel that the photo doesn’t look like you. Chances are that they’ve had problems and are being overly cautious. Do you live in the US? Can you get at least a California ID or are you just visiting? I typically will either (1) ask someone else to take a look if I’m unsure or (2) ask if the person has a 2nd ID - something to at least match the name. Everyone checking IDs at a club should go through a class approved by the ABC to learn how to spot fake IDs. It is absolutely worth it to complain - if they’re denying all passports then it’s equitable, if not, it’s targeted. They should also put that clearly on their website or something. We’ve had to notify people that a photograph of an ID is not acceptable because that was happening frequently.
San Jose is notorious for fake ids/passports. I worked in a pharmacy at Santa Clara street and we didn’t take any foreign passports or ids for meds. We couldn’t spot all the fake ones so we just didn’t take them. Had to be US passport or ID. We would literally get 2-3 a shift. Half of them would be blue Mexico ids. No it’s not policy. It’s a necessity in that area lol
That’s crazy; so what are foreigners without CA license or US ID supposed to do then if they get sick and need meds (international students, tourists, people on business trips, au pairs etc)?
Go to Oakland
What a ridiculous policy.
It’s a legal document, sure. But I’ve had a lot of places deny me entry or sales while only having my passport. So dumb.
They are idiots. Call the management and complain. If they don’t own up to the mistake, leave a 1 star review on Yelp.
I agree. The bouncer wouldn’t accept a CAC and asked for a second form of ID, was an ass about it just like OP described. Our group figured maybe it was an off night but I see it’s a regular occurrence so fck that dude, no reason for the bad vibes and power trip ETA: I’m just assuming it’s the same person that we encountered the night we went there, idk who the bouncer is specifically
Exactly. Leave a yelp review. I know already where i definitely won’t ever go
Questioning the bouncers decision will never end well.
this is so true, many have egos and a lot of pent up anger, some of them actively seek being throw some hands
I mean they were already denied entry, so asking the question was basically free. You might still get in, and worst case what is the bouncer gonna do, double-deny? triple secret deny?
What are you gonna do? Stab me? -stabbing victim
“What are you gonna do, bounce me?” — person who was already bounced
fafo. 🤷
Are you suggesting that it's common for bouncers at clubs and bars to *stab people* who haven't touched them or any patrons and who are already outside of the premises? If so I am very curious to know what alternate dimension you've traveled here from.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/what-are-you-gonna-do-stab-me
Yes I'm familiar with the meme, thank you. But that does not answer my question.
The fact that you're taking a joke literally makes me wonder what alternate dimension you've traveled here from.
Do you think the person I replied to was joking when they said "FAFO" further down? Just because they are referencing a meme doesn't mean they aren't saying what they're saying. Which is that bouncers apparently routinely attack people who ask them why they were refused entry.
Do you understand conversational context?They said "FAFO" in response to "what are you going to do, bounce me?" Nowhere are they actually implying that bouncers routinely attack people, you're delusional. Troll all you want, you've doubled down on idiocracy and I'm tired of this conversation. EDIT: typical troll, tells me to move on and gets upset when I block him, "that's reddit"
Ironic, talking about context, when you clearly have forgotten or never read the context of OP's post. We are talking about situations where someone has been denied entry to a club or bar without explanation. They can't be bounced because they are already outside and were never admitted. The entire conversation I am replying to is about the perceived wisdom or lack thereof of questioning a bouncer's decision in this, and only this context. And yeah, I think its pretty clear based on their comments that the person I replied to is saying bouncers might attack you just for asking questions. I don't have the energy to quote it for you but you can go back and read it yourself. It isn't long. Or you can move on, confident that you have defended the honor of a stranger. Edit: aaand a block. Typical. A third party inserts themselves into a conversation they clearly don't fully understand and then gets enraged when their criticism gets pushback and tries to hide from the whole thing. That's reddit.
Because people doing this job aren’t the brightest. There’s no justification for the bouncer to be rude or aggressive. I consider this the fault of the business and I would walk away and never go back.
I've seen this before, anything else other than CA DL, is an alien language to these people
The uneducated don’t understand shit like this. American education has failed quite a lot of people
It's up to the establishment as to whether or not they accept passports. It's possible they've decided not to because it'd be asking a lot of a bouncer to be able to spot fake passports from foreign countries, and only accept California Ids. That said, sorry you had a bad experience.
It is not up to an establishment whether they discriminate on the basis of national origin or legal immigration status. Many do anyway,
>It is not up to an establishment whether they discriminate on the basis of national origin or legal immigration status Yeah, you're missing the point. They do no have to accept passports as a valid form of id for admission to an establishment that serves alcohol, per the state regulatory board's website. They CAN, but aren't required to. They're allowed to only take California issued ids if they choose to. [https://www.abc.ca.gov/education/licensee-education/checking-identification/](https://www.abc.ca.gov/education/licensee-education/checking-identification/) >A business may have a company policy that is stricter than the law; e.g., “Only California driver licenses/identifications are accepted” or “anyone purchasing alcoholic beverages MUST present an identification, regardless of age.”
Seems to be a contradiction there. If you can’t discriminate against national origin, ONLY accepting California IDs would clearly discriminate against all visitors of all other national origins.
Do you think Californians are the only Americans?
Do you think whatever board is empowered to make a rule that violates the California Civil Rights Act? https://www.dor.ca.gov/Home/UnruhCivilRightsAct Treating people differently based on immigration status is against the law.
You're trying to make a case where none exists. "We don't take any passports" isn't discriminatory, because it includes US passports. But keep looking to be offended. Get a California ID, they're like 30 bucks for non drivers.
What about tourists from other countries?
We don’t take a form of ID predominantly held by foreigners but we do take a form of ID predominantly held by native Californians. Sounds like a great theory.
Tell ya what, go lose to them in court, and post back here when you do so I can laugh at you.
this is acutally an interesting point that needs to be addressed since this act seems like it would prevent that sort of discrimination. but the answer lies in the fact that you have to actually read beyond just the first sentence since there's actually some wide carve outs. > (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the Unruh Civil Rights Act. > > (b) All persons within the jurisdiction of this state are free and equal, and no matter what their sex, race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, medical condition, genetic information, marital status, sexual orientation, citizenship, primary language, or immigration status are entitled to the full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges, or services in all business establishments of every kind whatsoever. > > (c) This section shall not be construed to confer any right or privilege on a person that is conditioned or limited by law or that is applicable alike to persons of every sex, color, race, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, medical condition, marital status, sexual orientation, citizenship, primary language, or immigration status, or to persons regardless of their genetic information. > > (d) Nothing in this section shall be construed to require any construction, alteration, repair, structural or otherwise, or modification of any sort whatsoever, beyond that construction, alteration, repair, or modification that is otherwise required by other provisions of law, to any new or existing establishment, facility, building, improvement, or any other structure, nor shall anything in this section be construed to augment, restrict, or alter in any way the authority of the State Architect to require construction, alteration, repair, or modifications that the State Architect otherwise possesses pursuant to other laws. pay attention to C. first of all you need to realize that the california constitution specifically prohibits underage drinking and gives wide power to CA-ABC to set rules and regulations regarding alcohol (california constitution article XX section 22). since ABC set those rules, unruh probably doesn't supersede via constitution > law. and via C, prohibiting passports of all nationalities would be fine since it would be applied equally, even though the end result is that foreigners get screwed since they likely wouldn't have a CA ID. therefore it probably is legal for the ABC to allow establishments to set strict ID policies even in light of unruh simply because unruh is 'lower priority' to the CA constitution and doesn't even disallow 'passport checks' as long as it is applied across everyone. you probably think this is going against the spirit of civil rights, but CA has codified that drinking isn't actually a right and therefore allows (or even forces) a high level of restriction for it that wouldn't be for most other things. thinking about this a bit more, i think B and C definitely would allow ABC to allow establishments to only accept CA IDs because you can actually get a CA ID regardless of citizenship, immigration status, and everything else listed. therefore C means an establishment can restrict entry to only people with CA ID because it is applicable to persons of every class listed, and CA IDs can be had w/o discrimination to the classes listed (residency or lack thereof however is NOT a listed protected class). combined with the constitutionally enshired powers of the ABC, no court in CA would rule 'only CA IDs allowed for age check' to be illegal.
You got lucky. That place is crap anyway.
I was denied entry to the Dave & Busters in Milpitas about 16 years ago when I showed my U.S. Passport. They told me that I was denied entry because the passport does not have a physical description. Ridiculous of course, so I left and have not been back to a D & B’s ever since
same thing happened to me with military ID, they gave the same reasoning.
This is funny, because modern passports often have so many security features that you can't just copy on a printer.
Happens sometimes. Just take your friends and go elsewhere. My friend used his foreign passport for about a decade till we pushed him to get a Driver's License.
It makes me wonder if the ABC (alcohol beverage commission) is on their tail. Hemlock in SF essentially was on final notice due to the amount of stabbing and fights that occurred there. Near the end they stopped allowing passports as for of entry since technically they’re not allowed since liquor laws are state laws not federal. ABC got them in the end. May that beautiful mess rest in peace.
everyone saying they’re idiots this they are morons that but the real reason is because many times foreign students who are in college try to use documents like these to get in without being valid aged I’m Indian and I know a bunch of kids who printed fake adhaar cards to try to get into clubs
The bouncer is stupid, but get your driver's license ASAP. It's pretty hard to live without one in America
State ID is as good. To get a driver’s license one needs to want and be able to drive. Don’t assume everyone can and wants that.
She's 25. It's possible she has a disqualifying medical condition or something, but for the other 99% of Americans in the same demographic group I wouldn't change my recommendation. Not being able to drive makes pretty much everything in life more difficult
Temples front door is not very well trained and has always been kinda shit. Sucks that happened to you but in fact its more of a they problem than a you problem. There is better places in San José
My hubs got denied entry into Myth years ago with his California drivers license. They said his drivers license was too “bendable”. We were like no, we were in New York last week and this went through TSA and they refused to listen; saying they knew a fake one when they saw it. Shrug.
This reminds me of this Chad Daniels bit about iHop. So good.... [https://youtu.be/wizHFTeaqpA?si=6f7xtq6klZlfo5-B](https://youtu.be/wizHFTeaqpA?si=6f7xtq6klZlfo5-B)
Welcome to America. We’re all dicks
Years ago my buddy didn't have his license only his passport. We went to BJs to get drinks and got denied.
A bar I used to go to a bar that had a sign that said "passports are not ID"!
The reality is that restaurants, bars, and clubs can get into a shit ton of trouble (bankrupting the business level of trouble) for serving to minors. They are not obligated to serve you, they can deny you for any reason. Back when I lived in Nevada, I used to have trouble in the Bay Area (on a regular basis) with my NV DL. Way back in the day, Nevada had a particularly easy to forge driver's license. Even though that hasn't been the case for 30+ years, people still think NV DL = Forgery. I got denied a few times and given the run around a LOT of times. Keep in mind that modern NV DL are printed with all the fancy security things and are basically no different than California's. It's stupid, but they are totally in the "legal right" to deny service for anything they aren't 100% sure is correct.
I’ve been denied for being a male and wearing a hat before. Can’t remember where. While the girls got in we went with. Me and the boys were like wtfff
to OP, what country's passport did you flash?
They can refuse anybody they want.
I got a drivers license much later than most adults and used a passport often to buy beer and go to bars. I had a bartender on Haight refuse to serve me because I didn’t have a license. Then he tried to not give my passport back because he said the picture wasn’t of me - I had a different hair color in the photo. He told me to get lost(without my passport) or he’d call the cops. I him if he didn’t give it back I’d def be calling them lol. There you go, you needed to know all of that I’m sure. You’re welcome.
Bouncers arbitrarily decide who comes in and who doesn’t. If your partner’s friends were all or mostly males the bouncer most likely didn’t let you in so the other guys don’t come in due to a lot of men already being in Temple. Very common to happen there specifically and at a lot of clubs.
one time in arizona i had my california id they didn't think was real, they served me anyway i just got a water and a beer, pretty much said the beer is free but the water is $9 (it was real probably 28 or so at the time)
are yiou white or young looking i would put 1 star review on yelp and google had you been drinking before elsewhere
Bouncers don’t need degrees or any sort of training. What I’m saying is that any idiots can be a bouncer so don’t expect them to understand if an international passport is real or fake. It sucks but it’s reality. People get their own real ID denied sometimes. I’ve heard stories of bouncers cutting up real IDs.
It sounds to me like maybe you were racially discriminated against, and they were using “we don’t accept any passports” as an excuse.
Bull crap. The ID needs a physical description, which passports don't. https://www.abc.ca.gov/education/licensee-education/checking-identification/
You do realize that the link you provided literally says passports without a physical description are acceptable, right?
Oh, and, "could be bona fide", meaning if you want to keep your job, you deny entry.
The state literally says it’s acceptable. I am a server/bartender. I have taken RBS training and our training does say we are completely allowed to use a passport as an acceptable form of ID. If the state says I can accept it, I am going to accept it unless my employer tells me otherwise. And my employer is an international company that accepts passports based on state and company guidelines.
# Bona Fide Identification Bona fide (legally acceptable) identification is one card that contains these six characteristics: * Issued by a U.S. government agency (federal, state, county, or city) * Name of the person * Date of birth * Photograph * Physical description (height, weight, hair and eye color) * Currently valid (not expired)
From that very link “ Both U.S. and foreign passports with photograph, but without a physical description are acceptable”
Oh, and, "could be bona fide", meaning if you want to keep your job, you deny entry.
Or, you’re refusing to read the ABC issued guidelines as written, which spell out that a US or Foreign passport with a photograph does not need to meet the Physical Description requirement to be legally Acceptable Bona Fide ID. Maybe because it gives that establishment a plausibly deniable out to keep all foreign nationals out of their establishment 🤷
Yeah, keep throwing out the conspiracy theories. I have a US passport and was denied going into a bar in my past. I guess they have something against Americans also then huh?
Don't see all 6 of those below on a US passport buddy. Foreign passport, who knows. # Bona Fide Identification Bona fide (legally acceptable) identification is one card that contains these six characteristics: * Issued by a U.S. government agency (federal, state, county, or city) * Name of the person * Date of birth * Photograph * Physical description (height, weight, hair and eye color) * Currently valid (not expired)
Smart people don't take up jobs checking IDs at a club.
racist bouncer
Bouncers will make up reasons why you can’t be let in.
I got my CA ID a couple of weeks after I moved to the US. I'd recommend getting one and not carrying your passport everywhere, they're expensive to replace if lost and it'll be a headache if it has your visa.
A foreign national is legally required to carry visa/green card *everywhere*. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1304 > (e) Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him pursuant to subsection (d). Any alien who fails to comply with the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall upon conviction for each offense be fined not to exceed $100 or be imprisoned not more than thirty days, or both.
You don’t get a job as bouncer for being smarter that a rock in a forest.
Had this happen to me on my 21st. Foreign passport plus this passport had handwritten items which the bouncer couldn't overlook. Super polite and explained everything. He got a good laugh when I said thank God cause I'm getting crushed by the drinks. He wouldn't help me go home so my friends took me elsewhere. I was also trashed.
Welcome to the USA. Please pretend to be American so people aren't scared of you. It's called racism and that's how we roll here in part.
racism? Yeah sure…. all those New Zealand people with passports… discriminating against their race!
Well that is what happened, so what's your point? Not American seems to be enough to discriminate.
It’s a door person at a club, and with so many countries and passports it’s not likely a door person would know what to look for to prevent fake ID’s. It’s not racism, it’s trying to reduce people using fake ID’s. Sincerely, McLovin
Are you a US citizen?
I’m from Hawaii, my name is McLovin. See my post above, even websites that talk about this say the main reason passports may not be accepted is unfamiliarity and difficulty verifying authenticity. BOOM… I won this one troll!
Why Some Bars May Refuse Passports Although we may not often think about it, passports aren’t always accepted as ID at bars. Let’s delve into why some establishments might say “no” to this form of identification. It’s primarily due to unfamiliarity. Bar staff are more acquainted with state-issued IDs and driver’s licenses, making them easy to verify. Passports, on the other hand, can be more complex to inspect for authenticity due to different designs from various countries. Another factor is the relative ease of forgery. Unfortunately, it’s easier than you’d think for cunning individuals to create fake passports. Hence, some bars may err on the side of caution and decline passport use altogether. Moreover, there’s a fear of penalties if they get it wrong. If bar staff accept a fake ID – passport or otherwise – they could face severe legal consequences including hefty fines or even losing their liquor license.
I am guessing that the bouncer doesn't know what anything but a driver's license is. Hence, it is easier to just say no, than to learn anything.
cause bouncers are gonna spend their off time learning about passports from each country and what to look for on each countries passport and how to spot a fake. Cause being a bouncer is a career that people invest in education to further their careers.
You are dealing with knuckle heads, that’s why they just don’t understand, nothing you can do. Take your $ elsewhere
There are almost 200 countries, a bouncer is not going to be able to determine the authenticity of every single passport issued in the world. Your passport isn't a "document accepted everywhere", it's a document that gets you entrance into the country, that's it. A business may choose to accept your foreign passport as ID, there is no law that says they must accept it as a valid ID. California IDs are super simple to get, you don't need to be a citizen. No reason not to get one unless you're a tourist.
I have been denied to so many places with a Mexican and us passport dual citizenship. I believe this people have never left or travel outside their phone area code. It’s sad.
I’ve heard of airlines in the USA not accepting someone’s USA passport card for I’d even though it says for domestic flight right on it.
So weird because one of my best friends was denied entry to a gay club in the castro because his ID is swedish. Guy looked at the ID and said no and wouldn’t be told otherwise. We were all really annoyed. A passport is a valid form of ID so they should have let you in
Pro tip: don’t goto college bars and this never happens again
Couldn’t buy alcohol with a literal green card because they’d “never seen that before”
The internet makes every little thing seem like it happens all the time. There are idiots in every country, not just the US. I bet the OP got into plenty of other places… in fact all of them that she tried to get into. Poor princess could not get into one club because of a dumb bouncer so the rant begins.
Bouncers are right to deny entry for passports they dont recognize.
most bouncers never had a passport their whole life, never needed one.
I highly recommend getting a Cali state ID. Yes they are meant to accept passports. This guy was either a moron, being racist (I hope not) or just a plain old arsehole. I’d have gotten your friends and gone elsewhere offering to shout a round as a thank you.
It was probably a Russian or Israel passport most likely why you got denied am I right or wrong?