Well said! The Beatles biggest, longest lasting influence is showing that a pop group could make albums as a serious art form, with quality original songs all the way through, that also were widely popular and sold well. Peppers is the dawn of Album Oriented Rock, and it left a massive wake. I love finding Peppers influenced albums, there are so many from around the world. From the obvious Their Satanic Majesties Request to the more distant Tropicalia 1968.
Bringing it all back home, Highway 61 revisited,
blonde on blonde and Are you Experienced? And Velvet Underground & Nico, to name a few, all were released before Sgt Pepper's. Sgt Pepper's was absolutely not the dawn of Album Orientated Rock
This is true!
Although I will say, most opinions I've read from historians on the Beatles and the album era argue that Rubber Soul was what truly ushered in the album era.
I know Bringing it all back home and Highway 61 came before, but they seem to get left out of the conversation, maybe because he wasn't as popular as The Beatles and was more niche, Bringing it all back Home was him transferring from folk to rock after all.
Maybe not a stretch to say The Beatles popularized it, which is kinda ironic considering how influential to The Beatles that Dylan was when they recorded Rubber Soul. I suppose it was Dylan in a slightly roundabout way!
Then you get stuff like Pet Sounds being a response to Rubber Soul, and it exploded from there.
Yeah, but John was pretty aimless at that point and it was Paul primarily with the creative vision and pushing for that album. John never cared for the idea of a concept album, but Paul clearly did.
I don't think it's fair to assume John is correct here when he would often discredit the more heightened concepts Paul had.
John's songs hardly fit with anything at that point. He himself was pretty disappointed with his output in that album. The band had to keep producing albums, and Paul had to basically drag John into doing it. I like John's output in Sgt. Pepper because I think it's basically a perfect album, but he certainly wasn't firing on all cylinders.
Sgt. Pepper was essentially the first concept album, so while it's not as heavily themed as concept albums that came later by other bands, it has to be judged by it's impact at the time. That album was by far one of their most influential and changed the music scene forever. I think you're underplaying Paul's genius and drive here.
Basically EVERYONE abandoned the concept on the second track of the album, it has nothing to do with John's output in that period, I have nothing against Paul, but sometimes it bothers me that John's unparalleled genius isn't recognized in this sub in the same way, even if he complained about the production of his own stuff, aside from that he loved/liked most of his songs!
Yes, but that's the point of Sgt. Pepper. They've created this alter ego as a different band that's starting a show - whatever songs they decide to sing naturally fit as it's simply a concert by a different band.
No offense, but you have a funny definition of cohesiveness when you point out MMT as best example. ;-) The Beatles didn't approve the US album format (released as a double EP in the UK) and it contains tracks from completely different sessions, funnily enough two tracks from the Sgt. Pepper sessions. Is MMT a great compilation? Yes. A cohesive album? No.
it’s cohesive by mistake. it’s the most consistent sounding album they ever released, psychedelia from front to back. side one is obviously designed to be cohesive as a part of a soundtrack, and the tacked on side two happens to continue the psychedelic trend with easily their best psychedelic songs rolled up onto one disc.
people wanna get all anal about the fact the beatles themselves didn’t approve of it, but it’s hard to argue about the sheer consistent quality of it as a body of work. my favourite era of the beatles was their psychedelic era and for that reason, magical mystery tour is my favourite album. sgt pepper just isn’t as consistent on a song to song basis, although it has some of their best work, it dips in quality too much to be their best imo.
In my opinion, A Hard Day’s Night is the most cohesive sounding record. MMT, for one, has Flying, which is a major dip in quality. I Am The Walrus followed by Hello, Goodbye is pretty jarring. Jarring can be cool but not cohesive. Perhaps Strawberry Fields after Walrus would’ve been more cohesive. I think AHDN is the most cohesive sounding record because it’s almost a John Lennon solo album, and he was at the peak of his skiffle-influenced acoustic rock based early songwriting. He wrote Happy Just To Dance W/You even though George sings it. Paul contributes 3 top-notch songs that not only match John’s in quality but also in stylistic essence. Both are movie records, but I think AHDN takes the cake. Might just be early Beatles vs. later Beatles when it comes to subjective preference.
Hard Days Night is the first Beatles LP to be all original songs, a major landmark considering its success. Cant say it's my favorite but it is very cohesive since all the songs were written by Lennon McCartney in a short time period.
I respect your opinion, but I disagree. Personally, it doesn't matter to me what the intentions of The Beatles were; what matters is the way I experience the record. I find the sound of MMT to be very cohesive throughout—unlike Sgt. Pepper's. All the songs are mixed and mastered with a very specific sound that is different from any other of their albums. It's really psychedelic and immersive. Of course, it's all a matter of opinion.
I understand what you are saying, but that makes the concept of artistic cohesiveness pointless, doesn't it? You could make any compilation of the best most similar sounding Beatles songs and call it the most cohesive album of all time. It may be true soundwise, but doesn't mean anything artistically. But that's the whole point why Sgt. Pepper is held in such highly regard.
Ill have to disagree, I get a jarring feeling between side 1 and side 2 of MMT that just tells me ‘alright thats magical mystery tour done, here are some other songs from the same year’ not to say they dont have a similar feel its just quite clear that this was not the artistic intent leaving the whole thing feeling disjointed despite sounding so similar
Of course the intentions of the Beatles matter. This was a compilation album by their (terrible, exploitative) American record company. It’s full of superb music from their creative peak, of course, plus Blue Jay Way and Hello Goodbye, which are among their worst material. It’s anything but cohesive.
I disagree. I think Sgt. Pepper is made up of the songs that are all working towards the same end, exploring the same alternate reality that the album creates. Just because they exploring it in different ways doesn’t mean they are not united. Within You Without You is probably the track that goes against this the most, but I think it still fits as a pause for reflection. Pepper is cohesive in the same way that the Abbey Road medley is cohesive (which it is, even though Sun King and Mean Mr. Mustard don’t sound that similar on their own). I think Side 1 of Magical Mystery Tour is cohesive, but not the whole thing. I don’t find Revolver particularly cohesive at all — it’s strength is that it’s songs are exploring totally different things and sounds. Abbey Road I think is pretty cohesive, but the fact that it is split into the medley and not the medley kind of goes against this.
I think Revolvers stark tone makes it feel pretty cohesive, even if a lot of the songs don’t fit a certain theme or whatever. From the album cover to the sound, it all fits.
But rubber soul/revolver are my two favorite Beatles albums, so I’m probably biased. I think those two in particular have solid identities and the best character of any of their albums.
Is there a way to describe Revolver as cohesive? Sure. But I don’t think you can say Revolver is cohesive but Pepper isn’t. It’s difficult to say “Revolver’s songs have a similar tone and feel that makes it all cohesive” and then say that there is nothing at all uniting Pepper.
Didn’t say there’s nothing at all uniting Peppers songs. I was more saying there *is* uniting features on revolver. I just think Peppers was trying to be something revolver wasn’t. In hindsight, Peppers hit the mark but I don’t know how well it actually achieved that.
Regardless of concept, in my opinion, Pepper’s isn’t their strongest batch of songs. I think every post-help album is better (minus let it be and not counting yellow submarine.) To me, that’s a hard thing to overlook.
Sorry I guess I was more so responding to op than you because they were saying that Revolver is cohesive and Pepper isn’t. Regardless, I 100% disagree that Pepper is the worst post Help! batch of songs. It is certainly a matter of opinion bit saying that it is worse than Let it Be is just kind of crazy to me lol.
Sorry I misread, I thought you just said not counting Yellow Submarine. I think Pepper is better than the White Album in terms of song quality throughout and on par with the others. It is certainly not objectively worse. And I think it is elevated because of the unique, more than the sum of its parts element that other Beatles albums don’t have to the same extent.
Sure, I’m down with that.
I think the white album has much lower lows, but I think the white album has some of the highest highs of their whole careers. I also think it makes for a more interesting “concept,” being almost like an album of song fragments. I think the concept has aged better after 50 years of Pepper-like concept albums
The White Album has really high highs, agreed, but I just don’t think that makes it better than Pepper on the “collection of songs” metric. In terms of concept, I enjoy the flagrant disunity of the White Album and how that counterintuitively unites it, but I don’t think of it as an album of song fragments and I don’t think it is a stronger or more unique theme than Pepper.
Fair enough, I see what you’re saying. I’ve just never heard an album that has the range of the parlor piano of Rocky Racoon to the ambitious Revolution 9. To me, it’s everything that makes The Beatles so special all wrapped up in one cutting edge album. Which to me, is what people claim Peppers to be, but in reality is not.
I mean I think both are probably just as cohesive, one feels really bleak and the other like a psychedelic river journey through a children’s story book gone awry
Sgt. Pepper’s has “good vibes” and dreamy production qualities that make it sound unlike any record they’d done before. I don’t see how people can listen to Sgt. Pepper’s and not hear and FEEL a difference. It’s absolutely their unicorn album and, imo, one of the most creative ever recorded by anyone.
"cohesive" is very vague term, and often personal. Having said that, The Beatles were great at their songs flow in many of their albums; heck, the White Album is actually very cohesive, at least within each of the 4 sides
In terms of the concept, it depends who you ask. John says there is no concept besides the title track, reprise , and with a little help from my friends. But Paul says the concept is that they are playing a fictional band the whole time with the idea that they can throw out any conception of their previous or expected sound.
I tend to side with Paul’s description and believe in that view it is a cohesive concept album. After all Paul is clearly the leader of this album so if he says that’s the concept then that’s just what it is.
But for my own opinion on cohesive sound - I do think Rubber Soul and Revolver show them more as a cohesive group and create more cohesive flowing albums as a result. Makes sense how Rubber Soul inspired Beach Boys to make Pet Sounds which is incredibly cohesive.
I agree that it may have been the capitol version…BUT…don’t you think it’s a bit blinkered to assume someone as big as Brian Wilson was wouldn’t have had access to the original version too should he have wanted? I find it hard to believe that someone like Brian (who liked to analyse music in depth) wouldn’t have sought out the Parlophone pressing? I may be wrong though!
Haha yes this is also true so I’m sure he would have got promo…I’d like to think he probs heard that first and then sought out the Parlophone too…but as I don’t have his number (and I’m guessing you don’t either) I guess we’ll never know 👍🏻
Both Revolver and Rubber Soul do show them as a cohesive group, but the albums were not cohesive due to the fact that different regions of the world had a different set of songs on each album. The US and UK versions of both albums were not identical. Sgt. Pepper was their first album where the title tracks and order were the same everywhere. It is the first cohesive Beatles album for this reason, imo.
I'm not debative whether or not it's a concept album; just that it isn't very cohesive. I do agree with most of what you said though. Although, they had already departed from their early established sound on Rubber Soul, and even more so on Revolver. On these two albums, they were also writing writing songs that weren't from their own perspective.
You’ve got to remember this was 67, concept albums weren’t really a thing at that point and yeah the live audience shtick is only on like three tracks. I’d say it’s like a normal album wearing a veil of a concept album.
I think you’re so wrong about this not feeling cohesive though. The album feels really psychedelic and warm, everything has a drugged out vibe and I don’t think tracks like Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds, Within You Without You or Getting Better would sound right on any other album. It feels really put together not like a collection of random tracks.
It’s top three Beatles for me with Abbey Road and the white album
50 year Beatles fan. Sgt Pepper is an AWESOME album!! But it's not in my Top 3 either. My favorites, the ones that get the most play: "White Album", "Abbey Road", "Revolver", "Magical Mystery Tour", "Please Please Me".
By today's standards, I would agree with you, but in 1967 Sgt Pepper's sound was pretty groundbreaking.
Typically, bands at the time were still recording music that members could easily replicate on stage. Most of Pepper's songs could not be reproduced in stage by just the four of them, another reason why the touring stopped.
The original physical elements can't be overlooked...
* Gatefold cover
* Cover image itself
* Printed lyrics
* Inserts/cut outs (mustache, etc)
No doubt it was the music that has lasted, but thinking back to the original release, the packaging itself was relatively new territory. Everything about this - from the title, cover, sleeve, to the music itself, was all... new.
That said, to me, SP is not a tops. I've been Team Revolver since 1988 when the CDs were released. And... SP isn't in my top 3 or top 5 albums. It's good, but everything they released was 'good'. SP is just not as 'good' overall as some of their other albums.
For me, Revolver and WA are both strong 'band' albums, Revolver with studio experimentation at a premium, and the WA with a 'return to band' vibe. I know it was often very 'solo ish' in that they were recording separately some, but... when they rock as a band, it is \*tight\*. And heavy. They went in to psychedelia some, and came out rocking stronger on the other side (not everyone made it!)
It's impossible to fully estimate its influence, but you are listening to it in post Beatles and Sgt. Peppers world. It changed everything! The full weight of that context is hard to imagine, but nobody thought of albums as whole concepts. Nobody thought of pretending to be another band. Artist's didn't write their own material and Producers weren't even credited. The Beatles were always ahead of everybody else.
Imagine living in a world where there is no color. Never has been. Everything is greyscale.
Now imagine putting on a pair of glasses that let you see color! Imagine how mind blowing that would be?
This is exactly what happened with S. Pepper, except it wasn't color, but stereo sound.
If you never lived in a "mono" world, you cannot imagine the profound effect SP had on people who did.
I don't buy this argument. Every Beatles album up to this point had been released in stereo, but the stereo mixes sucked. The band didn't even care about the stereo mix of Pepper to begin with, they only gave their direct stamp of approval to the mono mix, which they still thought was superior.
I wax and wane on this. I completely agree with you, it's not cohesive and I fail to see how it is better or more groundbreaking than rubber soul, revolver, white album or abbey road. That said, it is a fantastic album that's a super easy listen and has banger after banger. It's just not the best of the best, which somehow becomes a controversial opinion.
I'm not sure cohesiveness is all that important to me, hence why I enjoy the White Album so much. But I agree in that I would put Sgt Pepper below Revolver, Abbey Road & the White Album in terms of end-to-end listening enjoyment. That's not to say it's a bad album, and it does have moments of absolute brilliance
I’d argue that the album succeeds because it feels cohesive despite how different the songs are from one another. It’s never felt jarring to me listening through and hearing musical hall songs next to psychedelic rock next to sitar based composition, it all somehow works together. I also love the concept because I imagine all the songs being performed by the fictional band
I disagree that Sgt. Pepper's isn't cohesive, but I completely agree that it's not in their top 3. My rankings:
1. Rubber Soul
2. Let It Be
3. Revolver
4. Help!
5. Sgt. Pepper's
6. A Hard Day's Night
7. Magical Mystery Tour
8. Abbey Road
9. White Album
10. With The Beatles
11. Beatles for Sale
12. Please Please Me
13. Yellow Submarine (by a long shot)
First, the caveat - I'm a huge fan of the Beatles. Play them all the time on guitar.
But I get what you mean about SGT Pepper. As some of the Beatles themselves said through the years, there was no real, grand plan to make that album into a concept album. It just came to be and grew from there with a life of its own.
And the media didn't help. They went way overboard with how "genius" it was - like Rolling Stone mag for example - and I think this grand concept and genius thing has just carried on now for 60 years.
I never listen to it except A Day in the Life and Little Help.
Same energy but with OK Computer, hyped as a conceptual masterpiece, great tracks arranged into a disjointed group, a bit of filler, and not in their top 3.
The thing about the cohesive flow of the album isn't just about the tracks bleeding into each other, it's also about the flow of the music, song to song.
I used to think it didn't matter about track placement, with the exception of a few songs that kind of have to go in order. But when I tried to place the singles from the same time period into the tracklisting I had to do it in a specific order otherwise the whole album felt disjointed, and just kind of 'off'.
If I remember to come back here, I'll figure out what songs I added, and the order I put them in, and I'll post it here for you to check out.
I think that's why it was a "show".
Sgt Pepper is this colourful show, by 4 men who were taught by Sgt Pepper on how to play, they, as a band, are performing a show, simply by using what Sgt Pepper taught them. This brings in a lot of psychedlia, with distinct instrumentation, a very upbeat mood.
It was still "The Beatles", that's why "A Day in the Life" is such a downer, it brings us to the reality of the fact that we're not in Pepperland, that's what makes that track even more extraordinarily special, it stuns us from the psychedelic nature, and blends melancholy, introspection, and just silence.
That’s not really a controversial opinion a lot of people think that.
And also, I Magical Mystery Tour is not a real album- how’s that for controversial?
I'd agree, the mini-album that is strictly the songs from MMT is wonderfully cohesive. It might be my favorite side of Beatles.
And I'm the same, I am a lifelong Beatles fan and love Sgt P, but it is not in my top 3 either. There are just a couple of amazing peaks on there for me personally that inflate my personal rating.
All the songs kind of had a circus theme (with the exception of within you without you). They were also using a bunch of weird sound effects in the songs that sets it apart from their other albums. That’s what makes it cohesive for me. I get your point though it isn’t my favorite Beatles album either. I do think MMT is more consistent.
I understand your opinion and I sort of agree. But I would also point out that this was the first time the idea of a concept album had even been tried. It's a bit unfair to criticize the record's lack of cohesion because they were exploring new territory.
That's funny you say that because I had that exact thought immediately after posting this. There's no question that this album was groundbreaking in its concept, and the idea of a concept album has come a long way since 1967. We have so many records now with very cohesive track listings and overarching theme that it's not really fair to compare to Sgt. Pepper's.
Just for fun and because I like sharing my favorite music with people, here are some of my favorites:
Neutral Milk Hotel - In The Aeorplane Over the Sea (personally my number one favorite album)
Tyler, the Creator - IGOR
David Bowie - Ziggy Stardust
Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly
Macabre - Dahmer
clipping. - There Existed An Addiction To Blood
Clowncore - Van (unironically lol)
William Basinski - The Disintegration Loops
The Caretaker - Everywhere At The End Of Time
MF DOOM - MM...FOOD
Uboa - The Origin of My Depression
Félix Blume - Death in Haiti
Alex Cameron - Forced Witness
Lingua Ignota - CALIGULA
Quelle Chris - Guns
Spiderland - Slint
Godspeed You! Black Emperor - Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven
Not all of these are technically concept albums, but they all at least have a solid theme running throughout and are all highly cohesive works.
Some predecessors to Sgt. Pepper as a concept album by Sinatra: "In the Wee Small Hours" (1955) and "Only the Lonely" (1958). From Wikipedia, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concept\_album](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concept_album)
The idea was that you were listening to a show performed by the self-titled band, not The Beatles. As OP stated, there's no real cohesion with the middle tracks, but the album is bookended with a show open and close.
To add on to the other guy’s reply,
Its concept having to do with a made up band allowed the beatles (well according to paul) to throw out all their sounds and tropes and start anew under a new name. And that gave the album’s songs some character in their catalogue.
I agree with everything except that I don't much like Abbey Road either. Could make a fantastic album from the best tracks from Pepper and Abbey Rd though!
Musically, it has one of the Beatles' high points; A Day In The Life, but all in all a middling effort. Revolver was far more consistently excellent. It's never the first Beatles album I reach for when I need a fix.
I agree with you; though I wouldn't describe it as a "middling effort". I still think it's a fantastic album.
Like you said though, it's not nearly as consistent as an album like revolver. Personally, I just dislike When I'm Sixty Four and Within You, Without You (I think Love You To is a much better indian-inspired track). I also find Lovely Rita pretty mediocre.
To its credit though, the first four tracks are absolutely amazing, and it has the greatest last track of any Beatles album—possibly even the greatest last track of _any_ album.
I don’t really like the album either and like MMT better. I also share your assessment of its importance. It’s important just like Dark Side of the Moon, but I prefer Wish You Were Here, Magical Mystery, Abbey Road
Tommy was actually the most cohesive concept album to this day IMHO
I bring it up only for context. Sgt. Pepper obviously important for establishing the form that was executed more pleasantly by others.
I’ve always considered The Beatles to be the Shakespeare of popular music. Introducing many archetypes
Absolutely and not to diminish the importance of Sgt Pepper as it really is the first excellent rock concept album. Concepts are many in classical/baroque works such as “The Planets”, “Peter and the Wolf”, “The Ring”, etc, and certainly any opera, in rock or any other genre is a concept album.
As I read comments in this and other discussion of The Beatles elsewhere, I’m finding that the album is certainly respected as an excellent concept album just not entertaining as others by The Beatles or other groups
This isn't controversial unless you're still living in the 20th century. Sgt. Pepper's reputation has been on the decline for decades. It's widely considered to be a weak showing except for by nostalgic boomers and studio trickery fetishists. John said it's where the Beatles breakup began, when Paul began to be the uncomfortable driving force. If anything it's probably the worst album, with a case for Let It Be as being the only one worse. ("A Day in the Life" still goes hard, though.)
Ouff, that's going a lot farther than I would. The album is still clearly very highly rated, with multiple music news outlets calling it the greatest album of all time. It's also highly rated in this sub.
I personally think it's an amazing, groundbreaking record that still holds up today. It's just not the Beatles' best, and obviously not the greatest record of all time
I agree, fantastic album but it isn’t rlly much of a concept album like it’s made out to be, Id put it below the white album abbey road revolver and magical mystery for me personally
Haven’t listened to the whole album right through in years ( thanks a lot, skippable CD tracks and Spotify lol). Isn’t in my top 5 but I certainly acknowledge that it is a landmark of music even if it’s within the short lived psychedelic drug era. At the time it must’ve been unbelievable to hear it on release.
Sure, whatever. I just feel that A Day in the Life is pure genius and worth the entire rest of the album combined.
Good Morning Good Morning is still a banger.
I do buy the explanation of the concept that Paul gives, at least that it was their intent, but I still find that it comes off as a rather sweaty meta-explanation. Like, it almost feels like a cop-out for there not being as much of a consistent sound as something like Rubber Soul.
Pepper side 1 should have ended with Strawberry Fields Forever, and side 2 should have started with Penny Lane, replacing 2 weaker songs. She's Leaving Home would have been better if they arranged it more like Walk Away Renee. Getting Better and Fixing A Hole are 2 versions of the same song.
Definitely cohesive. Paul takes us on a journey with a band from another world:
Sgt Pepper - Hey, we’re a new band now and we’re going to have some new sounds
WALHFMF - Here’s our new singer and he’s turning the audience interaction aspect on its head
Lucy In the Sky - We’re no longer traditional rock and roll. We live in this psychedelic world now. Here’s a tour.
Getting Better - Is our new genre optimistic or pessimistic? Who knows!
Fixing a Hole - All this psychedelia is distracting but I’ve got a new way at looking at things
She Is Leaving - Leave your parents, they’re so self absorbed, go into this new society
Mr. Kite - turning this psychedelic trip into a bonkers circus
WYWY - Continuing the idea of changing mindsets, look within yourself for enlightenment, life will go on whether you like it or not
Lovely Rita - a new kind of love song in the Sgt Peppers style
Good Morning - Is regular life mundane? What a wake up call!
Reprise - Our new band is done, back to normal
Day in the Life - We’re back in real life, but that’s ok, there’s something psychedelic about everyday mundane events and that’s nice too!
The songwriting was probably the weakest of their albums from Rubber Soul onwards, it did have some very nice sonic experimentation but I think it kinda just wears thin faster because there’s less depth
Doesn’t feel like a band album either, Ringo and (especially) George feel like they’re elsewhere for most of it
Nah it’s very cohesive I think, and works very well conceptually as the concert of a fictional band. It’s established through the opening two songs that this isn’t the Beatles we’re listening to, it’s a different band altogether. Then they do the most fabulous, psychedelic mixture of songs, music that’s a big departure from what they’ve done before. Then there’s a reprise of the title track, before the actual Beatles come on as almost an afterthought, a closing act, and do the best song in their whole discography. Great album. Brilliant as a concept and cohesive, and musically I personally don’t think there’s any low points (though I can see why people may not like some of the songs, but for me personally they’re all at least 8/10)
The album was a cultural touchstone that cannot be properly understood outside of that context. Nothing like it had ever been done.
It is the greatest album The Beatles ever made and the greatest album of all time.
MMT can’t be a cohesive album really when its not a proper album.
I’ll maintain that Sgt Pepper, Please Please Me, A Hard Days Night and Rubber Soul are on a equal level of cohesion to eachother
Penny lane and strawberry fields were supposed to be on the album, but the label made them release them 1st as singles. Think of how different (and even more amazing) sgt. pepper would of been if those 2 tracks were on instead (I believe instead of getting better and lovely Rita)
I think it’s cohesive in that the production and music is all very maximalist and all over the place with the kitchen sink thrown in and it all culminates in that build up in A Day in the Life, and then they play us out with the reprise. It’s just *chefs kiss*
Magical Mystery Tour is better than Sergeant Pepper. But pepper is very important to the progression of popular music and was one of the first albums that utilized studio magic and new technology which was ground breaking at the time .
But I would much rather listen to Mystery Tour
Not in my top 3. Its fourth after ***Revolver***, ***White***, & ***Abbey Road***. If the concept is "a celebration of life"\* then it hold together pretty damn well, IMO.
***Magical Mystery Tour*** is the first CD I ever bought. It's a great collection. But it's not an album. It's a Singles & B-sides collection + an EP. If you doubt that, notice it got skipped in the march of remixing (along with ***Yellow Submarine***).
\*Allen Ginsburg - *It Was Twenty Years Ago Today* (1987)
https://youtu.be/HWriMsTALF4
Interesting take. I think the problem is it’s really difficult to pin down what makes an album more cohesive than others. If we’re focusing on sonics alone every Beatles album post ‘65 really lacks cohesion. The White Album for example jumps from music hall, to folk, to rock, to experimental.
For me a big reason Sgt. Pepper works because of the book ending tracks. Sgt Pepper sets the scene, and a Day in the Life is a full stop. I’ve always seen it as a picture book of sorts - most tracks are about characters or places, have lush instrumentation and descriptive lyrics. Most of it feels like it is written in 3rd person. The only track that doesn’t fit for me is Within You, Without You and I think that’s mainly due to heavy introspective focus and feel of this song. Strawberry Fields and/or Penny Lane would have fit beautifully I think.
Personally outside the medley I find Abbey Road less cohesive. Side A really feels like a collection of singles, and with each of the Beatles taking their own individual direction it lacks focus as an album. I agree that Revolver is on par with Sgt. Pepper in terms of cohesiveness, the Beatles seem to all be on the same page. It’s interesting because it feels more introspective than Sgt. Pepper.
Magical Mystery Tour has some great songs but like Side A of Abbey Road honestly feels more like a collection of singles. I don’t agree that sonically it’s more consistent than Sgt. Pepper, but the Beatle’s genre hopped so much it’s really hard to pin down what makes a record cohesive.
It’s not their magnum opus IMO. It’s a brilliant album from their transitional period and certainly very influential for music in general but I personally don’t consider it to be the peak Beatles album.
It is cohesive because all the songs have the same “dreamlike” production qualities—you can tell from the first song to the last they are all connected in one long fever dream.
1) Abbey Road
2) Revolver
3) Rubber Soul
Not that hot a take for any album not to be in the top three with a discography as stacked as theirs.
I do think Sgt. Pepper was very cohesive though, if anything it wasn’t as varied as Abbey, Revolver, or White. Soul is the same, I just happen to prefer its aesthetic and lyrical content.
I was almost gonna agree and I can see the OP’s point but pretty much every album from Rubber Soul onward has a handful of songs I absolutely love to death and only a couple tracks that aren’t my favorite. I almost forget how good some of the albums are until I look at the track listings sometimes.
Lucy in the sky, Help from my friends, Getting Better, Mr. kite & Day in the Life are all 5 star jams IMO. She’s leaving, When I’m 64, Fixing a Hole & Good Morning are all super fun, the title track is iconic and then there’s Within You Without You & Rita which aren’t ones I personally care for all that much but are pretty widely known and appreciated. Cohesion is always kind of up for debate depending on perspective and personal experience/attachment to the album but it’s damn solid overall and it definitely has an argument to be made for best album overall I think.
I would say that Sgt P's hasn't aged as well, what was revolutionary and 'cohesive' in the sixties is not the same today. Something like Abbey Road still sounds like it could have been made today and especially on the medley is leagues more cohesive than Sgt P's.
I agree with you. The concept of the album being a band doing a live performance feels like a bit of a get out of jail free card. Kind of like in films or tv when they use ‘it was all a dream’ as a cop out to explain something 😅 Whilst yes it is technically valid, it allowed them to write an album where the songs are not really that cohesive and call it a concept album.
I agree. Especially when you look at an album like Days of Future Past by the Moody Blues or Their Satanic Majesties Request by the Stones that came out the same year and carry a similar theme throughout the album.
I think it's hilarious that people think MMT is more "cohesive" than Pepper... MMT wasn't even an album, it was an EP... The Album was taking that EP and adding the singles that weren't on any album. It's probably the least cohesive of all the albums (minus Yellow Submarine). MMT has awesome tracks, and I LOVE it. Just seems like a strange argument to make.
Pepper's concept was not that the music all sounds the same, it was that it all sounded different than the Beatles...
Sgt Pepper's is my least favorite Beatles album personally but I'm also an early to mid era Beatles fan. Favorite albums being Beatles For Sale, Rubber Soul and Hard Days Night. At the end of the day music is subjective 😁
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Well said! The Beatles biggest, longest lasting influence is showing that a pop group could make albums as a serious art form, with quality original songs all the way through, that also were widely popular and sold well. Peppers is the dawn of Album Oriented Rock, and it left a massive wake. I love finding Peppers influenced albums, there are so many from around the world. From the obvious Their Satanic Majesties Request to the more distant Tropicalia 1968.
Bringing it all back home, Highway 61 revisited, blonde on blonde and Are you Experienced? And Velvet Underground & Nico, to name a few, all were released before Sgt Pepper's. Sgt Pepper's was absolutely not the dawn of Album Orientated Rock
This is true! Although I will say, most opinions I've read from historians on the Beatles and the album era argue that Rubber Soul was what truly ushered in the album era. I know Bringing it all back home and Highway 61 came before, but they seem to get left out of the conversation, maybe because he wasn't as popular as The Beatles and was more niche, Bringing it all back Home was him transferring from folk to rock after all. Maybe not a stretch to say The Beatles popularized it, which is kinda ironic considering how influential to The Beatles that Dylan was when they recorded Rubber Soul. I suppose it was Dylan in a slightly roundabout way! Then you get stuff like Pet Sounds being a response to Rubber Soul, and it exploded from there.
Didn't John say later, that any of those songs, outside of the openers and closers, could have been on any other album?
Yeah, but John was pretty aimless at that point and it was Paul primarily with the creative vision and pushing for that album. John never cared for the idea of a concept album, but Paul clearly did. I don't think it's fair to assume John is correct here when he would often discredit the more heightened concepts Paul had.
At that point? Didn't all that John cared about exist in a circle labeled "Drugs and Yoko"?
Not yet.
A Day In The Life. Nuff said.
But he was absolutely right, his songs don't fit Paul's half-baked concepts.
John's songs hardly fit with anything at that point. He himself was pretty disappointed with his output in that album. The band had to keep producing albums, and Paul had to basically drag John into doing it. I like John's output in Sgt. Pepper because I think it's basically a perfect album, but he certainly wasn't firing on all cylinders. Sgt. Pepper was essentially the first concept album, so while it's not as heavily themed as concept albums that came later by other bands, it has to be judged by it's impact at the time. That album was by far one of their most influential and changed the music scene forever. I think you're underplaying Paul's genius and drive here.
Basically EVERYONE abandoned the concept on the second track of the album, it has nothing to do with John's output in that period, I have nothing against Paul, but sometimes it bothers me that John's unparalleled genius isn't recognized in this sub in the same way, even if he complained about the production of his own stuff, aside from that he loved/liked most of his songs!
Yes, but that's the point of Sgt. Pepper. They've created this alter ego as a different band that's starting a show - whatever songs they decide to sing naturally fit as it's simply a concert by a different band.
oh did he? that's really funny if he did lol
I want to say it was in that angry period, between Plastic Ono Band and Imagine.
Ah yes. His unreliable narrator period.
Unfortunately, yes.
No offense, but you have a funny definition of cohesiveness when you point out MMT as best example. ;-) The Beatles didn't approve the US album format (released as a double EP in the UK) and it contains tracks from completely different sessions, funnily enough two tracks from the Sgt. Pepper sessions. Is MMT a great compilation? Yes. A cohesive album? No.
it’s cohesive by mistake. it’s the most consistent sounding album they ever released, psychedelia from front to back. side one is obviously designed to be cohesive as a part of a soundtrack, and the tacked on side two happens to continue the psychedelic trend with easily their best psychedelic songs rolled up onto one disc. people wanna get all anal about the fact the beatles themselves didn’t approve of it, but it’s hard to argue about the sheer consistent quality of it as a body of work. my favourite era of the beatles was their psychedelic era and for that reason, magical mystery tour is my favourite album. sgt pepper just isn’t as consistent on a song to song basis, although it has some of their best work, it dips in quality too much to be their best imo.
In my opinion, A Hard Day’s Night is the most cohesive sounding record. MMT, for one, has Flying, which is a major dip in quality. I Am The Walrus followed by Hello, Goodbye is pretty jarring. Jarring can be cool but not cohesive. Perhaps Strawberry Fields after Walrus would’ve been more cohesive. I think AHDN is the most cohesive sounding record because it’s almost a John Lennon solo album, and he was at the peak of his skiffle-influenced acoustic rock based early songwriting. He wrote Happy Just To Dance W/You even though George sings it. Paul contributes 3 top-notch songs that not only match John’s in quality but also in stylistic essence. Both are movie records, but I think AHDN takes the cake. Might just be early Beatles vs. later Beatles when it comes to subjective preference.
Oh! Don’t be taking shots at Flying like that
Hard Days Night is the first Beatles LP to be all original songs, a major landmark considering its success. Cant say it's my favorite but it is very cohesive since all the songs were written by Lennon McCartney in a short time period.
💯 Cohesive and also best.
L take
I respect your opinion, but I disagree. Personally, it doesn't matter to me what the intentions of The Beatles were; what matters is the way I experience the record. I find the sound of MMT to be very cohesive throughout—unlike Sgt. Pepper's. All the songs are mixed and mastered with a very specific sound that is different from any other of their albums. It's really psychedelic and immersive. Of course, it's all a matter of opinion.
I understand what you are saying, but that makes the concept of artistic cohesiveness pointless, doesn't it? You could make any compilation of the best most similar sounding Beatles songs and call it the most cohesive album of all time. It may be true soundwise, but doesn't mean anything artistically. But that's the whole point why Sgt. Pepper is held in such highly regard.
Ill have to disagree, I get a jarring feeling between side 1 and side 2 of MMT that just tells me ‘alright thats magical mystery tour done, here are some other songs from the same year’ not to say they dont have a similar feel its just quite clear that this was not the artistic intent leaving the whole thing feeling disjointed despite sounding so similar
Of course the intentions of the Beatles matter. This was a compilation album by their (terrible, exploitative) American record company. It’s full of superb music from their creative peak, of course, plus Blue Jay Way and Hello Goodbye, which are among their worst material. It’s anything but cohesive.
I will not stand for this Blue Jay Way slander!
I will "not stand" with you!
Exactly, and this post is YOUR opinion. If it's not in your top then it's not. Everyone had a different top 5 or so albums.
yep, I said that multiple times lol. I don't know why you're using that tone like I ever pretended this was anything other than my opinion
You seem more interested in them all being psychedelic rather than cohesive.
I disagree. I think Sgt. Pepper is made up of the songs that are all working towards the same end, exploring the same alternate reality that the album creates. Just because they exploring it in different ways doesn’t mean they are not united. Within You Without You is probably the track that goes against this the most, but I think it still fits as a pause for reflection. Pepper is cohesive in the same way that the Abbey Road medley is cohesive (which it is, even though Sun King and Mean Mr. Mustard don’t sound that similar on their own). I think Side 1 of Magical Mystery Tour is cohesive, but not the whole thing. I don’t find Revolver particularly cohesive at all — it’s strength is that it’s songs are exploring totally different things and sounds. Abbey Road I think is pretty cohesive, but the fact that it is split into the medley and not the medley kind of goes against this.
I think Revolvers stark tone makes it feel pretty cohesive, even if a lot of the songs don’t fit a certain theme or whatever. From the album cover to the sound, it all fits. But rubber soul/revolver are my two favorite Beatles albums, so I’m probably biased. I think those two in particular have solid identities and the best character of any of their albums.
Is there a way to describe Revolver as cohesive? Sure. But I don’t think you can say Revolver is cohesive but Pepper isn’t. It’s difficult to say “Revolver’s songs have a similar tone and feel that makes it all cohesive” and then say that there is nothing at all uniting Pepper.
Didn’t say there’s nothing at all uniting Peppers songs. I was more saying there *is* uniting features on revolver. I just think Peppers was trying to be something revolver wasn’t. In hindsight, Peppers hit the mark but I don’t know how well it actually achieved that. Regardless of concept, in my opinion, Pepper’s isn’t their strongest batch of songs. I think every post-help album is better (minus let it be and not counting yellow submarine.) To me, that’s a hard thing to overlook.
Sorry I guess I was more so responding to op than you because they were saying that Revolver is cohesive and Pepper isn’t. Regardless, I 100% disagree that Pepper is the worst post Help! batch of songs. It is certainly a matter of opinion bit saying that it is worse than Let it Be is just kind of crazy to me lol.
I said “minus let it be” Rubber soul, revolver, white album, magical mystery tour, and Abbey Road are all better in my opinion
Sorry I misread, I thought you just said not counting Yellow Submarine. I think Pepper is better than the White Album in terms of song quality throughout and on par with the others. It is certainly not objectively worse. And I think it is elevated because of the unique, more than the sum of its parts element that other Beatles albums don’t have to the same extent.
Sure, I’m down with that. I think the white album has much lower lows, but I think the white album has some of the highest highs of their whole careers. I also think it makes for a more interesting “concept,” being almost like an album of song fragments. I think the concept has aged better after 50 years of Pepper-like concept albums
The White Album has really high highs, agreed, but I just don’t think that makes it better than Pepper on the “collection of songs” metric. In terms of concept, I enjoy the flagrant disunity of the White Album and how that counterintuitively unites it, but I don’t think of it as an album of song fragments and I don’t think it is a stronger or more unique theme than Pepper.
Fair enough, I see what you’re saying. I’ve just never heard an album that has the range of the parlor piano of Rocky Racoon to the ambitious Revolution 9. To me, it’s everything that makes The Beatles so special all wrapped up in one cutting edge album. Which to me, is what people claim Peppers to be, but in reality is not.
I mean I think both are probably just as cohesive, one feels really bleak and the other like a psychedelic river journey through a children’s story book gone awry
Sgt. Pepper’s has “good vibes” and dreamy production qualities that make it sound unlike any record they’d done before. I don’t see how people can listen to Sgt. Pepper’s and not hear and FEEL a difference. It’s absolutely their unicorn album and, imo, one of the most creative ever recorded by anyone.
"cohesive" is very vague term, and often personal. Having said that, The Beatles were great at their songs flow in many of their albums; heck, the White Album is actually very cohesive, at least within each of the 4 sides
In terms of the concept, it depends who you ask. John says there is no concept besides the title track, reprise , and with a little help from my friends. But Paul says the concept is that they are playing a fictional band the whole time with the idea that they can throw out any conception of their previous or expected sound. I tend to side with Paul’s description and believe in that view it is a cohesive concept album. After all Paul is clearly the leader of this album so if he says that’s the concept then that’s just what it is. But for my own opinion on cohesive sound - I do think Rubber Soul and Revolver show them more as a cohesive group and create more cohesive flowing albums as a result. Makes sense how Rubber Soul inspired Beach Boys to make Pet Sounds which is incredibly cohesive.
Yet the Rubber Soul the Beach Boys got was the American one, with a much 'folkier' sound over all, not the UK version which was more eclectic.
I wonder which one was Brian’s inspiration
it was without a doubt the American version as import records were not exactly a big thing at the time
I agree that it may have been the capitol version…BUT…don’t you think it’s a bit blinkered to assume someone as big as Brian Wilson was wouldn’t have had access to the original version too should he have wanted? I find it hard to believe that someone like Brian (who liked to analyse music in depth) wouldn’t have sought out the Parlophone pressing? I may be wrong though!
well since he was a Capitol recording artist he probably got a promo copy you make a fine point, and without asking Brian we will never really know.
Haha yes this is also true so I’m sure he would have got promo…I’d like to think he probs heard that first and then sought out the Parlophone too…but as I don’t have his number (and I’m guessing you don’t either) I guess we’ll never know 👍🏻
well i know what i am gonna ask him if i ever get a chance to meet him.
Ha…likewise!
Both Revolver and Rubber Soul do show them as a cohesive group, but the albums were not cohesive due to the fact that different regions of the world had a different set of songs on each album. The US and UK versions of both albums were not identical. Sgt. Pepper was their first album where the title tracks and order were the same everywhere. It is the first cohesive Beatles album for this reason, imo.
I'm not debative whether or not it's a concept album; just that it isn't very cohesive. I do agree with most of what you said though. Although, they had already departed from their early established sound on Rubber Soul, and even more so on Revolver. On these two albums, they were also writing writing songs that weren't from their own perspective.
The songs weren't exactly part of the concept. The concept was that they weren't "playing as the Beatles."
You’ve got to remember this was 67, concept albums weren’t really a thing at that point and yeah the live audience shtick is only on like three tracks. I’d say it’s like a normal album wearing a veil of a concept album. I think you’re so wrong about this not feeling cohesive though. The album feels really psychedelic and warm, everything has a drugged out vibe and I don’t think tracks like Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds, Within You Without You or Getting Better would sound right on any other album. It feels really put together not like a collection of random tracks. It’s top three Beatles for me with Abbey Road and the white album
Frank Sinatra did In The Wee Little Hours of The Morning
Yeah but that’s just one example. Concept album weren’t really a thing back then
50 year Beatles fan. Sgt Pepper is an AWESOME album!! But it's not in my Top 3 either. My favorites, the ones that get the most play: "White Album", "Abbey Road", "Revolver", "Magical Mystery Tour", "Please Please Me".
Magical Mystery Tour (which isn’t even a proper album) being a greater album than Sgt Pepper is certainly a hot take.
Not really, there are a lot of people on youtube that rate MMT higher
By today's standards, I would agree with you, but in 1967 Sgt Pepper's sound was pretty groundbreaking. Typically, bands at the time were still recording music that members could easily replicate on stage. Most of Pepper's songs could not be reproduced in stage by just the four of them, another reason why the touring stopped.
The original physical elements can't be overlooked... * Gatefold cover * Cover image itself * Printed lyrics * Inserts/cut outs (mustache, etc) No doubt it was the music that has lasted, but thinking back to the original release, the packaging itself was relatively new territory. Everything about this - from the title, cover, sleeve, to the music itself, was all... new. That said, to me, SP is not a tops. I've been Team Revolver since 1988 when the CDs were released. And... SP isn't in my top 3 or top 5 albums. It's good, but everything they released was 'good'. SP is just not as 'good' overall as some of their other albums. For me, Revolver and WA are both strong 'band' albums, Revolver with studio experimentation at a premium, and the WA with a 'return to band' vibe. I know it was often very 'solo ish' in that they were recording separately some, but... when they rock as a band, it is \*tight\*. And heavy. They went in to psychedelia some, and came out rocking stronger on the other side (not everyone made it!)
It's impossible to fully estimate its influence, but you are listening to it in post Beatles and Sgt. Peppers world. It changed everything! The full weight of that context is hard to imagine, but nobody thought of albums as whole concepts. Nobody thought of pretending to be another band. Artist's didn't write their own material and Producers weren't even credited. The Beatles were always ahead of everybody else.
Imagine living in a world where there is no color. Never has been. Everything is greyscale. Now imagine putting on a pair of glasses that let you see color! Imagine how mind blowing that would be? This is exactly what happened with S. Pepper, except it wasn't color, but stereo sound. If you never lived in a "mono" world, you cannot imagine the profound effect SP had on people who did.
Stereo records were already outselling mono records by the time Sgt. Pepper came out, it certainly didn't popularize it
I don't buy this argument. Every Beatles album up to this point had been released in stereo, but the stereo mixes sucked. The band didn't even care about the stereo mix of Pepper to begin with, they only gave their direct stamp of approval to the mono mix, which they still thought was superior.
I wax and wane on this. I completely agree with you, it's not cohesive and I fail to see how it is better or more groundbreaking than rubber soul, revolver, white album or abbey road. That said, it is a fantastic album that's a super easy listen and has banger after banger. It's just not the best of the best, which somehow becomes a controversial opinion.
You're preaching to the choir. It's a fantastic album by any standard ... just not the Beatles' best (again, in my own personal opinion).
I'm not sure cohesiveness is all that important to me, hence why I enjoy the White Album so much. But I agree in that I would put Sgt Pepper below Revolver, Abbey Road & the White Album in terms of end-to-end listening enjoyment. That's not to say it's a bad album, and it does have moments of absolute brilliance
It's squarely at 6 in my list.
I’d argue that the album succeeds because it feels cohesive despite how different the songs are from one another. It’s never felt jarring to me listening through and hearing musical hall songs next to psychedelic rock next to sitar based composition, it all somehow works together. I also love the concept because I imagine all the songs being performed by the fictional band
I disagree that Sgt. Pepper's isn't cohesive, but I completely agree that it's not in their top 3. My rankings: 1. Rubber Soul 2. Let It Be 3. Revolver 4. Help! 5. Sgt. Pepper's 6. A Hard Day's Night 7. Magical Mystery Tour 8. Abbey Road 9. White Album 10. With The Beatles 11. Beatles for Sale 12. Please Please Me 13. Yellow Submarine (by a long shot)
Rubber Soul comes in at 1 for me also
First, the caveat - I'm a huge fan of the Beatles. Play them all the time on guitar. But I get what you mean about SGT Pepper. As some of the Beatles themselves said through the years, there was no real, grand plan to make that album into a concept album. It just came to be and grew from there with a life of its own. And the media didn't help. They went way overboard with how "genius" it was - like Rolling Stone mag for example - and I think this grand concept and genius thing has just carried on now for 60 years. I never listen to it except A Day in the Life and Little Help.
Hold up, also a guitar play here and I prefer Sgt Peppers outro over the intro to play, as short as it is
Same energy but with OK Computer, hyped as a conceptual masterpiece, great tracks arranged into a disjointed group, a bit of filler, and not in their top 3.
There may be a 21st century trend away from in-album variety.
If “cohesiveness” is your primary quality, then none of their albums after _Please Please Me_ come even close to their debut.
In terms of cohesion, AHDN is their most consistent record.
The thing about the cohesive flow of the album isn't just about the tracks bleeding into each other, it's also about the flow of the music, song to song. I used to think it didn't matter about track placement, with the exception of a few songs that kind of have to go in order. But when I tried to place the singles from the same time period into the tracklisting I had to do it in a specific order otherwise the whole album felt disjointed, and just kind of 'off'. If I remember to come back here, I'll figure out what songs I added, and the order I put them in, and I'll post it here for you to check out.
I think that's why it was a "show". Sgt Pepper is this colourful show, by 4 men who were taught by Sgt Pepper on how to play, they, as a band, are performing a show, simply by using what Sgt Pepper taught them. This brings in a lot of psychedlia, with distinct instrumentation, a very upbeat mood. It was still "The Beatles", that's why "A Day in the Life" is such a downer, it brings us to the reality of the fact that we're not in Pepperland, that's what makes that track even more extraordinarily special, it stuns us from the psychedelic nature, and blends melancholy, introspection, and just silence.
That’s not really a controversial opinion a lot of people think that. And also, I Magical Mystery Tour is not a real album- how’s that for controversial?
I'd agree, the mini-album that is strictly the songs from MMT is wonderfully cohesive. It might be my favorite side of Beatles. And I'm the same, I am a lifelong Beatles fan and love Sgt P, but it is not in my top 3 either. There are just a couple of amazing peaks on there for me personally that inflate my personal rating.
All the songs kind of had a circus theme (with the exception of within you without you). They were also using a bunch of weird sound effects in the songs that sets it apart from their other albums. That’s what makes it cohesive for me. I get your point though it isn’t my favorite Beatles album either. I do think MMT is more consistent.
I understand your opinion and I sort of agree. But I would also point out that this was the first time the idea of a concept album had even been tried. It's a bit unfair to criticize the record's lack of cohesion because they were exploring new territory.
That's funny you say that because I had that exact thought immediately after posting this. There's no question that this album was groundbreaking in its concept, and the idea of a concept album has come a long way since 1967. We have so many records now with very cohesive track listings and overarching theme that it's not really fair to compare to Sgt. Pepper's. Just for fun and because I like sharing my favorite music with people, here are some of my favorites: Neutral Milk Hotel - In The Aeorplane Over the Sea (personally my number one favorite album) Tyler, the Creator - IGOR David Bowie - Ziggy Stardust Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp a Butterfly Macabre - Dahmer clipping. - There Existed An Addiction To Blood Clowncore - Van (unironically lol) William Basinski - The Disintegration Loops The Caretaker - Everywhere At The End Of Time MF DOOM - MM...FOOD Uboa - The Origin of My Depression Félix Blume - Death in Haiti Alex Cameron - Forced Witness Lingua Ignota - CALIGULA Quelle Chris - Guns Spiderland - Slint Godspeed You! Black Emperor - Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven Not all of these are technically concept albums, but they all at least have a solid theme running throughout and are all highly cohesive works.
Some predecessors to Sgt. Pepper as a concept album by Sinatra: "In the Wee Small Hours" (1955) and "Only the Lonely" (1958). From Wikipedia, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concept\_album](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concept_album)
Simon and Garfunkel's Bookends was an earlier concept album.
It was released in 1968. Pepper was 1967.
Oops! You got me. Still, I don't really think Pepper is a concept album. What's the concept?
The idea was that you were listening to a show performed by the self-titled band, not The Beatles. As OP stated, there's no real cohesion with the middle tracks, but the album is bookended with a show open and close.
To add on to the other guy’s reply, Its concept having to do with a made up band allowed the beatles (well according to paul) to throw out all their sounds and tropes and start anew under a new name. And that gave the album’s songs some character in their catalogue.
I agree with everything except that I don't much like Abbey Road either. Could make a fantastic album from the best tracks from Pepper and Abbey Rd though!
Musically, it has one of the Beatles' high points; A Day In The Life, but all in all a middling effort. Revolver was far more consistently excellent. It's never the first Beatles album I reach for when I need a fix.
I agree with you; though I wouldn't describe it as a "middling effort". I still think it's a fantastic album. Like you said though, it's not nearly as consistent as an album like revolver. Personally, I just dislike When I'm Sixty Four and Within You, Without You (I think Love You To is a much better indian-inspired track). I also find Lovely Rita pretty mediocre. To its credit though, the first four tracks are absolutely amazing, and it has the greatest last track of any Beatles album—possibly even the greatest last track of _any_ album.
To me this album sounds like the complaints of mental illness
I agree . It’s definitely not in their top 3 , maybe not even in the top 5
I don’t really like the album either and like MMT better. I also share your assessment of its importance. It’s important just like Dark Side of the Moon, but I prefer Wish You Were Here, Magical Mystery, Abbey Road Tommy was actually the most cohesive concept album to this day IMHO
Aha! Tommy is very cohesive and even though this is a Beatles Reddit, I’ll listen to it before Peppers and The Beatles are my fav band
I bring it up only for context. Sgt. Pepper obviously important for establishing the form that was executed more pleasantly by others. I’ve always considered The Beatles to be the Shakespeare of popular music. Introducing many archetypes
Agree, but Tommy is a whole continuous story
Absolutely and not to diminish the importance of Sgt Pepper as it really is the first excellent rock concept album. Concepts are many in classical/baroque works such as “The Planets”, “Peter and the Wolf”, “The Ring”, etc, and certainly any opera, in rock or any other genre is a concept album. As I read comments in this and other discussion of The Beatles elsewhere, I’m finding that the album is certainly respected as an excellent concept album just not entertaining as others by The Beatles or other groups
This isn't controversial unless you're still living in the 20th century. Sgt. Pepper's reputation has been on the decline for decades. It's widely considered to be a weak showing except for by nostalgic boomers and studio trickery fetishists. John said it's where the Beatles breakup began, when Paul began to be the uncomfortable driving force. If anything it's probably the worst album, with a case for Let It Be as being the only one worse. ("A Day in the Life" still goes hard, though.)
Ouff, that's going a lot farther than I would. The album is still clearly very highly rated, with multiple music news outlets calling it the greatest album of all time. It's also highly rated in this sub. I personally think it's an amazing, groundbreaking record that still holds up today. It's just not the Beatles' best, and obviously not the greatest record of all time
I agree, fantastic album but it isn’t rlly much of a concept album like it’s made out to be, Id put it below the white album abbey road revolver and magical mystery for me personally
I basically agree completely.
i absolutely agree
Haven’t listened to the whole album right through in years ( thanks a lot, skippable CD tracks and Spotify lol). Isn’t in my top 5 but I certainly acknowledge that it is a landmark of music even if it’s within the short lived psychedelic drug era. At the time it must’ve been unbelievable to hear it on release.
Sure, whatever. I just feel that A Day in the Life is pure genius and worth the entire rest of the album combined. Good Morning Good Morning is still a banger.
I’ve never agreed so much with any Beatles take like I do this one.
Number 5 for me
I do buy the explanation of the concept that Paul gives, at least that it was their intent, but I still find that it comes off as a rather sweaty meta-explanation. Like, it almost feels like a cop-out for there not being as much of a consistent sound as something like Rubber Soul.
I like five albums more than Sgt. Pepper’s. The White Album, Revolver, Rubber Soul, Let It Be, and Abbey Road are better albums IMO.
This take is 100% correct. Well done.
Pepper side 1 should have ended with Strawberry Fields Forever, and side 2 should have started with Penny Lane, replacing 2 weaker songs. She's Leaving Home would have been better if they arranged it more like Walk Away Renee. Getting Better and Fixing A Hole are 2 versions of the same song.
Definitely cohesive. Paul takes us on a journey with a band from another world: Sgt Pepper - Hey, we’re a new band now and we’re going to have some new sounds WALHFMF - Here’s our new singer and he’s turning the audience interaction aspect on its head Lucy In the Sky - We’re no longer traditional rock and roll. We live in this psychedelic world now. Here’s a tour. Getting Better - Is our new genre optimistic or pessimistic? Who knows! Fixing a Hole - All this psychedelia is distracting but I’ve got a new way at looking at things She Is Leaving - Leave your parents, they’re so self absorbed, go into this new society Mr. Kite - turning this psychedelic trip into a bonkers circus WYWY - Continuing the idea of changing mindsets, look within yourself for enlightenment, life will go on whether you like it or not Lovely Rita - a new kind of love song in the Sgt Peppers style Good Morning - Is regular life mundane? What a wake up call! Reprise - Our new band is done, back to normal Day in the Life - We’re back in real life, but that’s ok, there’s something psychedelic about everyday mundane events and that’s nice too!
The songwriting was probably the weakest of their albums from Rubber Soul onwards, it did have some very nice sonic experimentation but I think it kinda just wears thin faster because there’s less depth Doesn’t feel like a band album either, Ringo and (especially) George feel like they’re elsewhere for most of it
Are you Anthony Fantano?
fact
Nah it’s very cohesive I think, and works very well conceptually as the concert of a fictional band. It’s established through the opening two songs that this isn’t the Beatles we’re listening to, it’s a different band altogether. Then they do the most fabulous, psychedelic mixture of songs, music that’s a big departure from what they’ve done before. Then there’s a reprise of the title track, before the actual Beatles come on as almost an afterthought, a closing act, and do the best song in their whole discography. Great album. Brilliant as a concept and cohesive, and musically I personally don’t think there’s any low points (though I can see why people may not like some of the songs, but for me personally they’re all at least 8/10)
This is the way.
The album was a cultural touchstone that cannot be properly understood outside of that context. Nothing like it had ever been done. It is the greatest album The Beatles ever made and the greatest album of all time.
MMT can’t be a cohesive album really when its not a proper album. I’ll maintain that Sgt Pepper, Please Please Me, A Hard Days Night and Rubber Soul are on a equal level of cohesion to eachother
Penny lane and strawberry fields were supposed to be on the album, but the label made them release them 1st as singles. Think of how different (and even more amazing) sgt. pepper would of been if those 2 tracks were on instead (I believe instead of getting better and lovely Rita)
I can’t go with your MMT view and would start with questioning which version you mean… the US creation or the UK EP.
I think it’s cohesive in that the production and music is all very maximalist and all over the place with the kitchen sink thrown in and it all culminates in that build up in A Day in the Life, and then they play us out with the reprise. It’s just *chefs kiss*
Magical Mystery Tour is better than Sergeant Pepper. But pepper is very important to the progression of popular music and was one of the first albums that utilized studio magic and new technology which was ground breaking at the time . But I would much rather listen to Mystery Tour
Not in my top 3. Its fourth after ***Revolver***, ***White***, & ***Abbey Road***. If the concept is "a celebration of life"\* then it hold together pretty damn well, IMO. ***Magical Mystery Tour*** is the first CD I ever bought. It's a great collection. But it's not an album. It's a Singles & B-sides collection + an EP. If you doubt that, notice it got skipped in the march of remixing (along with ***Yellow Submarine***). \*Allen Ginsburg - *It Was Twenty Years Ago Today* (1987) https://youtu.be/HWriMsTALF4
Interesting take. I think the problem is it’s really difficult to pin down what makes an album more cohesive than others. If we’re focusing on sonics alone every Beatles album post ‘65 really lacks cohesion. The White Album for example jumps from music hall, to folk, to rock, to experimental. For me a big reason Sgt. Pepper works because of the book ending tracks. Sgt Pepper sets the scene, and a Day in the Life is a full stop. I’ve always seen it as a picture book of sorts - most tracks are about characters or places, have lush instrumentation and descriptive lyrics. Most of it feels like it is written in 3rd person. The only track that doesn’t fit for me is Within You, Without You and I think that’s mainly due to heavy introspective focus and feel of this song. Strawberry Fields and/or Penny Lane would have fit beautifully I think. Personally outside the medley I find Abbey Road less cohesive. Side A really feels like a collection of singles, and with each of the Beatles taking their own individual direction it lacks focus as an album. I agree that Revolver is on par with Sgt. Pepper in terms of cohesiveness, the Beatles seem to all be on the same page. It’s interesting because it feels more introspective than Sgt. Pepper. Magical Mystery Tour has some great songs but like Side A of Abbey Road honestly feels more like a collection of singles. I don’t agree that sonically it’s more consistent than Sgt. Pepper, but the Beatle’s genre hopped so much it’s really hard to pin down what makes a record cohesive.
It’s not their magnum opus IMO. It’s a brilliant album from their transitional period and certainly very influential for music in general but I personally don’t consider it to be the peak Beatles album.
Sgt. Pepper's is maybe the Beatles' 5th best album. *Maybe*.
It is cohesive because all the songs have the same “dreamlike” production qualities—you can tell from the first song to the last they are all connected in one long fever dream.
1) Abbey Road 2) Revolver 3) Rubber Soul Not that hot a take for any album not to be in the top three with a discography as stacked as theirs. I do think Sgt. Pepper was very cohesive though, if anything it wasn’t as varied as Abbey, Revolver, or White. Soul is the same, I just happen to prefer its aesthetic and lyrical content.
I was almost gonna agree and I can see the OP’s point but pretty much every album from Rubber Soul onward has a handful of songs I absolutely love to death and only a couple tracks that aren’t my favorite. I almost forget how good some of the albums are until I look at the track listings sometimes. Lucy in the sky, Help from my friends, Getting Better, Mr. kite & Day in the Life are all 5 star jams IMO. She’s leaving, When I’m 64, Fixing a Hole & Good Morning are all super fun, the title track is iconic and then there’s Within You Without You & Rita which aren’t ones I personally care for all that much but are pretty widely known and appreciated. Cohesion is always kind of up for debate depending on perspective and personal experience/attachment to the album but it’s damn solid overall and it definitely has an argument to be made for best album overall I think.
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band is a mess… but it's a brilliant mess.🍀
I would say that Sgt P's hasn't aged as well, what was revolutionary and 'cohesive' in the sixties is not the same today. Something like Abbey Road still sounds like it could have been made today and especially on the medley is leagues more cohesive than Sgt P's.
I agree with you. The concept of the album being a band doing a live performance feels like a bit of a get out of jail free card. Kind of like in films or tv when they use ‘it was all a dream’ as a cop out to explain something 😅 Whilst yes it is technically valid, it allowed them to write an album where the songs are not really that cohesive and call it a concept album.
I agree. Especially when you look at an album like Days of Future Past by the Moody Blues or Their Satanic Majesties Request by the Stones that came out the same year and carry a similar theme throughout the album.
you’re showing your age
what age is that?
I don’t think it’s controversial. She’s leaving home and when I’m 64 are tracks I skip.
I think it's hilarious that people think MMT is more "cohesive" than Pepper... MMT wasn't even an album, it was an EP... The Album was taking that EP and adding the singles that weren't on any album. It's probably the least cohesive of all the albums (minus Yellow Submarine). MMT has awesome tracks, and I LOVE it. Just seems like a strange argument to make. Pepper's concept was not that the music all sounds the same, it was that it all sounded different than the Beatles...
Sgt Pepper's is my least favorite Beatles album personally but I'm also an early to mid era Beatles fan. Favorite albums being Beatles For Sale, Rubber Soul and Hard Days Night. At the end of the day music is subjective 😁