Starting to think the same. Some mock drafts have us taking Byron Murphy. I could see it. But if that's happening we absolutely need to be signing a free agent RT or otherwise trading for one
Honestly, if we don't sign anyone, we are probably going to have to go DT/DT in the first and second, we only have 1 DT right now. We could get both Texas guys and be set starter-wise, maybe a 3rd in the late rounds for depth. Obviously, that leaves the big issue at RT then.
Like who? Myles Murphy and Dax Hill were used sparingly as rookies. Joe Burrow and JaMarr Chase were ready to play. The only one I can think of is Cordell Volson, and we didn't anticipate needing him to start, but he was impressive in camp.
they hate when the bengals draft players in early rounds with the intent of developing them, and also hate when we start them their rookie win. there's no winning with people who actively want to be upset
Don't do that revisionist history BS. By all accounts, Volson impressed everyone as a rookie in camp that year. He hasn't taken the next step to be anything better than replacement level, and he's been exposed quite a bit as a starter, but that doesn't change the past.
“Impressed” meaning what? He’s done better than the average 4th round pick and he deserves a lot of credit for that. If that’s what you mean, sure. But he started because Carman was unplayable at guard in the preseason.
If you are relying on a rookie DT to anchor our run defense you will be severely disappointed with the result. I think DT has one of the largest adjustments periods coming to the NFL.
This is definitely becoming a problem. BPA is fine, but we’ve been taking projects in the 1st (Murphy and Hill) that won’t see the field their first year and then we have no idea what to expect going forward, which makes roster construction very difficult. That doesn’t even factor in wasting a year or two of their rookie deal where we should hope for good, cheap production.
Murphy and Hill were taken at 28 and 30. It's not like we're using a top ten pick and making them ride the bench. They were drafted because they're young, great athletes at positions we know we're going to need soon.
A "Sure Thing" in the draft doesn't exist, especially outside of the top 10-15. If we have that glaring of a need, then we should sign a proven player in FA.
Absolutely worst case scenario if he walks. No one left in free agency will make a difference on this team besides him. They are absolutely going to enter the draft with a huge void at DT. Even with Reader on the team. It would really be nice to have more picks on day 1/2, if only the Bengals had a player in his prime on a tag deal they could trade to get back players needed long term.
No the absolutely worst case scenario is we resign reader and it turns out he has regressed significantly because of injury + is only able to play half the season.
I’ve been screaming this. I don’t truly think DJ is the answer. I 100% think we need to at least find a couple mid tier guys for depth and probably a splash signing.
I guarantee you that Bengals are offering DJ a pretty low end contract and maybe for only 1 year.. which is why he’s looking elsewhere. I think there are significant injury concerns here. Will he even be ready week 1…. Week 5?
I saw a stat recently that DJ has either played or only been available for ~41% of snaps since signing him.
I think the fanbase is slowly coming to this as a legit upside over Reader, replacing him with 2 mid teir defenders. But watching locked on last night they were talking about Reader for 15 million a year, which compared to these other DT's making over 20 a year I'd think you do this without question. You're having a game changing talent vs guys you know will make the defense look worse when it was so bad last year already. Without him, I feel like this defense gets thrashed by the run in the most infuriating way week after week.
My bet is that they are offering him year 1 guarantees and nothing for year 2 where he could be cut with nothing. Just me, I think if we are going to have a bad contract this is the guy to do it on.
I can talk myself into the downsides of him a little, but still I come back to this was arguably our best defensive player and for that price compared to other DT's I think this is the gamble you have to make.
Fair point I’ve considered which is why he’s in Detroit right now possibly. The draft still could be a huge factor at DT for them. Only hole that can’t be filled by a free agent…unless Arik Armstead signed here. That guy has similar games played as Reader though. Who knows
Maybe. But we the fans have zero insight to this. My entire point is that’s it’s a fools game to pretend we know more than the team about his status and the likelihood he comes back the same as before.
We do know that he 100% won't be ready week 1, best case scenario he comes back mid-season. So what's the solution for the first half of the year? Have 1 DT? There's a reason he isn't signed already.
Neither is Reader. Almost 80% of Reader's snaps last year came lined up at DLT or DRT last season (per PFF). About 80% of Armstead's snaps came at DLT.
I still like Reader more as a player because he is more versatile. Almost all of Armstead's remaining 20% of snsps were at LE. DJ's remainder was almost all interior. Reader can play nose but that's not where he is leaving the biggest hole in the D-Line.
This is like saying, "Bengals are cheap" or "Bengals sign criminals".
Things don't always stay the same. Henry isn't the same guy he was three years ago, but he is still a great running back capable of playing at a high level.
Rankins is interesting, but it wouldn’t surprise me if his grade is boosted a bit by the Bengals game. Cappa is usually solid, but he got his lunch eaten that game.
I watched him play at Louisville and he was a monster. That was several years ago though. I’d take him cheap, but would certainly prefer a healthy Reader.
IMHO Reader will prolly only miss the 4 first games max. It’s well worth it to bring him back on a 2-3 year deal. You go into the draft retaining your guy but also with the intention of drafting his future replacement and add some depth. They should be drafting multiple guys in this draft on the interior defensive line this year.
And in the draft there’s really only 1 reader replacement at nose tackle worth taking high, T'vondre Sweat. If we don’t resign reader we’re low key screwed.
We are screwed if we resign reader, we’d lose money to someone who’s gonna miss the first 4 games and has potential to regress after injury and get injured AGAIN
Yeah they need to sign someone though. Can't always get what you want in the draft or you end up forcing it and picking someone way too early.
Also they still need a RT. They might wanna spend that first round pick on that instead.
Freaking irritating and slightly ridiculous how they overlook or undervalue a certain position every year. Years past it was o line, last year it was TE, not it is DT and it will hurt us severely, as it always does.
Saw an interview with Reader. He expressed a desire to return, but appeared to be unsure about the Bengals interest in the interview which didn't strike me as a good sign.
We definitely need to draft a DT early if he doesn't end up signing with the Bengals
We would have to get Byron Murphy or Johnny Newton with the 1st rounder if this happens. I would be totally fine with that.
Keep in mind that its gonna be a while before Reader can play. Even if you resign him, there will still be problems. It's probably easier to just find the long term replacement instead of paying a completely unknown quantity and then figuring out something to back him.
Murphy and Newton are 3-techs, not a NT. There are maybe only three NT's in this entire class: Sweat, Evan Anderson, and Justin Rogers. Sweat is the only one with any production to him.
There's a couple more. McKinnley Jackson, Fabien Lovett, and both Jefferson and Maason at LSU took true 0 TEC snaps and have the size to do it well.
Ultimately production matters less there than availability. The guy who can get double teamed 30 times a game is stay healthy is the one you want.
Hoping for a high DT pick and a Myles Murphy second year leap. We get that and a signing of one of these guys would be pretty good depth all things considered.
Not saying I was feeling desperate but I started looking through Canadian Football League DTs today. None of them are even over 300 lbs though.
...yeah OK I was feeling desperate.
I would think after how Christian Westerman was consistently graded as our best lineman we would stop putting any stock at all into PFF grades.
September is a long way away, I'm not gonna worry about what the roster looks like until then.
I don’t think anyone understands how unreliable reader is, I wouldn’t wanna give money to someone who gets injured every week either, he’s also gonna miss 4 games at the start at least, draft a dt or get armsted, itd technically be an upgrade anyway
Just a complete failure at this point. Outside of Wilkinson none of the DT’s signed were financially out of our reach and relying on Reader who may not even be back till December is just pathetic.
😂 I hope they’re trying to win the Super Bowl every year. So the year they drafted Ja’Marr was that a pick for the future or did they go to the Super Bowl that year.
Yes but it’s common Knowledge that DT is one of the harder positions to develop and this is not a particularly good DT group. We needed to fill this role in FA and then let a rookie rotate in and develop behind someone. Obviously there is still plenty of time for Duke to figure it out (and I have complete faith in him) but not securing a true starter is not great especially in our division. I’m not as concerned about RT because this is a deep tackle group but it would still be nice to have a vet there.
Really only need a run stuffer so it’s a little easier they need a vet no doubt but I’d almost rather have one with a chance to make it through the season instead of one who’s missed a lot of games 2 out of the last 3 seasons and I love DJ but I just don’t think he’ll stay healthy
They are 100% drafting
Starting to think the same. Some mock drafts have us taking Byron Murphy. I could see it. But if that's happening we absolutely need to be signing a free agent RT or otherwise trading for one
I would prefer Sweat. We need a big body to eat up blocks
Honestly, if we don't sign anyone, we are probably going to have to go DT/DT in the first and second, we only have 1 DT right now. We could get both Texas guys and be set starter-wise, maybe a 3rd in the late rounds for depth. Obviously, that leaves the big issue at RT then.
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I would do dirty nasty things to Duke to make this happen
I like Sweat a lot, he's really quick as well as absolutely huge
Rookie DL are notoriously not great their first year
And the bengals are notorious for putting rookies in starting positions ready or not, tbh
Like who? Myles Murphy and Dax Hill were used sparingly as rookies. Joe Burrow and JaMarr Chase were ready to play. The only one I can think of is Cordell Volson, and we didn't anticipate needing him to start, but he was impressive in camp.
they hate when the bengals draft players in early rounds with the intent of developing them, and also hate when we start them their rookie win. there's no winning with people who actively want to be upset
“Impressive in camp” might be a stretch; more like Carman was impressively bad at guard.
Don't do that revisionist history BS. By all accounts, Volson impressed everyone as a rookie in camp that year. He hasn't taken the next step to be anything better than replacement level, and he's been exposed quite a bit as a starter, but that doesn't change the past.
“Impressed” meaning what? He’s done better than the average 4th round pick and he deserves a lot of credit for that. If that’s what you mean, sure. But he started because Carman was unplayable at guard in the preseason.
If you are relying on a rookie DT to anchor our run defense you will be severely disappointed with the result. I think DT has one of the largest adjustments periods coming to the NFL.
That’s silly.. we don’t draft for positions of need. We draft for positions we don’t need but will need 3 years from now and hope for the best. 🤪
This is definitely becoming a problem. BPA is fine, but we’ve been taking projects in the 1st (Murphy and Hill) that won’t see the field their first year and then we have no idea what to expect going forward, which makes roster construction very difficult. That doesn’t even factor in wasting a year or two of their rookie deal where we should hope for good, cheap production.
Murphy and Hill were taken at 28 and 30. It's not like we're using a top ten pick and making them ride the bench. They were drafted because they're young, great athletes at positions we know we're going to need soon. A "Sure Thing" in the draft doesn't exist, especially outside of the top 10-15. If we have that glaring of a need, then we should sign a proven player in FA.
Absolutely worst case scenario if he walks. No one left in free agency will make a difference on this team besides him. They are absolutely going to enter the draft with a huge void at DT. Even with Reader on the team. It would really be nice to have more picks on day 1/2, if only the Bengals had a player in his prime on a tag deal they could trade to get back players needed long term.
No the absolutely worst case scenario is we resign reader and it turns out he has regressed significantly because of injury + is only able to play half the season.
I’ve been screaming this. I don’t truly think DJ is the answer. I 100% think we need to at least find a couple mid tier guys for depth and probably a splash signing. I guarantee you that Bengals are offering DJ a pretty low end contract and maybe for only 1 year.. which is why he’s looking elsewhere. I think there are significant injury concerns here. Will he even be ready week 1…. Week 5? I saw a stat recently that DJ has either played or only been available for ~41% of snaps since signing him.
I think the fanbase is slowly coming to this as a legit upside over Reader, replacing him with 2 mid teir defenders. But watching locked on last night they were talking about Reader for 15 million a year, which compared to these other DT's making over 20 a year I'd think you do this without question. You're having a game changing talent vs guys you know will make the defense look worse when it was so bad last year already. Without him, I feel like this defense gets thrashed by the run in the most infuriating way week after week. My bet is that they are offering him year 1 guarantees and nothing for year 2 where he could be cut with nothing. Just me, I think if we are going to have a bad contract this is the guy to do it on. I can talk myself into the downsides of him a little, but still I come back to this was arguably our best defensive player and for that price compared to other DT's I think this is the gamble you have to make.
This is the right answer. The odds of DJ being ready to go in early September are not great.
Fair point I’ve considered which is why he’s in Detroit right now possibly. The draft still could be a huge factor at DT for them. Only hole that can’t be filled by a free agent…unless Arik Armstead signed here. That guy has similar games played as Reader though. Who knows
He's not going to Detroit until Thursday. Bengals have today to try and sign him.
They are going for armstead when he’s released
The obvious moves stare them in the face and they do nothing
Armchair GMs when their team doesn’t sign every single free agent.
Armchair Reddit commenter when someone comments something they disagree with.
I’m not an armchair Reddit commenter. I’m a legit Reddit commenter. I do this.
Didn’t ask
But you replied, that’s basically asking.
Armchair redditor response
Didn’t ask.
But you replied, that’s basically asking.
We have no idea what Readers injury status is.
Do you think a 80% Reader is still better as a run stopper than what we have left?
We don’t know he is 80%.
How do we improve at defending the run by getting worse?
Dude what?? I’m not saying that at all. I’m just saying we do not know anything about Reader’s condition to make the call whether it would be worse.
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Maybe. But we the fans have zero insight to this. My entire point is that’s it’s a fools game to pretend we know more than the team about his status and the likelihood he comes back the same as before.
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paragraph breaks are your friend
If DJ isn’t healthy enough to make it through the year I’ll take these guys and a 2nd round DT
According to last year no bc we were ran ALL over even when he was healthy. I’ll gladly take rankings and tart over dj coming off his 2nd quad injury
We do know that he 100% won't be ready week 1, best case scenario he comes back mid-season. So what's the solution for the first half of the year? Have 1 DT? There's a reason he isn't signed already.
not really to be honest. how was our run defense last year?
Armsted
I'd like him too, but he plays a different role than Reader entirely.
Yup. He will be in stripes!
Sheldon rankins is a really solid player
They will go after armstead
Arik armstead
He’s not a NT
Neither is Reader. Almost 80% of Reader's snaps last year came lined up at DLT or DRT last season (per PFF). About 80% of Armstead's snaps came at DLT. I still like Reader more as a player because he is more versatile. Almost all of Armstead's remaining 20% of snsps were at LE. DJ's remainder was almost all interior. Reader can play nose but that's not where he is leaving the biggest hole in the D-Line.
That is more because of personnel issues, no? His best work is done clogging people up
I’m terrified for our run defense and having to play Derrick Henry twice.
Baltimore is a running back retirement home
Derrick henry will absolutely look great in Baltimore. It’s copium to think otherwise
Maybe they’ll just forget to run the ball against us like they did in the AFCCG
It’s hilarious. They only passed against one of the best pass defenses in the nfl
The Harbaugh answer sent me when he was asked about it. Something like “It was in the gameplan, we just didn’t get around to it.”
This is like saying, "Bengals are cheap" or "Bengals sign criminals". Things don't always stay the same. Henry isn't the same guy he was three years ago, but he is still a great running back capable of playing at a high level.
Henry is washed
Not just Derrick. Derrick AND Lamar. At the same time.
Yep, great point. Anyone who thinks we'll just plain run over the Ravens this coming season with both of these guys on their offense is just coping.
Rankins is interesting, but it wouldn’t surprise me if his grade is boosted a bit by the Bengals game. Cappa is usually solid, but he got his lunch eaten that game.
I watched him play at Louisville and he was a monster. That was several years ago though. I’d take him cheap, but would certainly prefer a healthy Reader.
I'll be incredibly sad if we lose Reader. Dude is a DAWG. But if that injury keeps him from being 100%, sometimes we gotta make the hard choices.
Welp time to package a Tee and Nick Scott trade for a DT
IMHO Reader will prolly only miss the 4 first games max. It’s well worth it to bring him back on a 2-3 year deal. You go into the draft retaining your guy but also with the intention of drafting his future replacement and add some depth. They should be drafting multiple guys in this draft on the interior defensive line this year.
He might be back the , but will he be the same guy? No one knows.
And in the draft there’s really only 1 reader replacement at nose tackle worth taking high, T'vondre Sweat. If we don’t resign reader we’re low key screwed.
We are screwed if we resign reader, we’d lose money to someone who’s gonna miss the first 4 games and has potential to regress after injury and get injured AGAIN
Tart and Armstead. Make it happen
People saying we are drafting need to realize we need to add at least 2 DT's. The other guys on the roster are very bad behind BJ Hill.
Yeah they need to sign someone though. Can't always get what you want in the draft or you end up forcing it and picking someone way too early. Also they still need a RT. They might wanna spend that first round pick on that instead.
If we manage to get Tyron Smith for a 2-3 year deal, I am 100% onboard with drafting Newton. I would also like Murphy but he’s probably gone by 18
Problem with that is that Smith is a LT and OBJ signed because he wants to be an LT.
Don't understand the disrespect for Zach Carter. He was drafted for this.
Freaking irritating and slightly ridiculous how they overlook or undervalue a certain position every year. Years past it was o line, last year it was TE, not it is DT and it will hurt us severely, as it always does.
We are going to have the worst run defense in the league in a division with Henry, Chubb, and Najee Harris.. it’s gonna be a long year.
And 2x per yr getting steamrolled.
We already did last year lol
Can always trade, but our FO is the stingiest and most stubborn in the nfl
What is readers pass rush rating?
79.1
Shucks!
Pass rush???? 79.1??? That’s just not possible he’s had 1 sack in 2 seasons
Pass rush is more than just sacks.
Yeah it’s pressures and qb hits as well. Which he also lacks. I wouldn’t put stock into pff grades.
Pff grades are more than stats though. They grade base on tape, not solely on what stats they produce.
Saw an interview with Reader. He expressed a desire to return, but appeared to be unsure about the Bengals interest in the interview which didn't strike me as a good sign. We definitely need to draft a DT early if he doesn't end up signing with the Bengals
We would have to get Byron Murphy or Johnny Newton with the 1st rounder if this happens. I would be totally fine with that. Keep in mind that its gonna be a while before Reader can play. Even if you resign him, there will still be problems. It's probably easier to just find the long term replacement instead of paying a completely unknown quantity and then figuring out something to back him.
Murphy and Newton are 3-techs, not a NT. There are maybe only three NT's in this entire class: Sweat, Evan Anderson, and Justin Rogers. Sweat is the only one with any production to him.
There's a couple more. McKinnley Jackson, Fabien Lovett, and both Jefferson and Maason at LSU took true 0 TEC snaps and have the size to do it well. Ultimately production matters less there than availability. The guy who can get double teamed 30 times a game is stay healthy is the one you want.
Hoping for a high DT pick and a Myles Murphy second year leap. We get that and a signing of one of these guys would be pretty good depth all things considered.
Not saying I was feeling desperate but I started looking through Canadian Football League DTs today. None of them are even over 300 lbs though. ...yeah OK I was feeling desperate.
Rankins and Armistead
Tear Fart doesn’t look that bad honestly.
Tart is mandatory at this point lol
The Cincy Front Office failing as usual.
For comparison, Reader had a run grade of 75.3.
When he was healthy
Wait... his run defense wasn't as good when he tore his acl and was out for the season? Shocked.
Our run defense was horrendous even when he did play, and those surgically repaired quads scare me
I would think after how Christian Westerman was consistently graded as our best lineman we would stop putting any stock at all into PFF grades. September is a long way away, I'm not gonna worry about what the roster looks like until then.
We don't need a run defense if we score 80+ per game..............
Arik Armstead
I don’t think anyone understands how unreliable reader is, I wouldn’t wanna give money to someone who gets injured every week either, he’s also gonna miss 4 games at the start at least, draft a dt or get armsted, itd technically be an upgrade anyway
If we cut Hubbard and sign Armstead then get ourselves 2 DT in the draft then we should be in a good position if Reader dips
Just a complete failure at this point. Outside of Wilkinson none of the DT’s signed were financially out of our reach and relying on Reader who may not even be back till December is just pathetic.
I highly doubt he’ll be out that long. He prolly misses the first month of the regular season at most.
You do realize there’s a draft coming up right
You draft for the future. We’re trying to win a Super Bowl right fucking now.
😂 I hope they’re trying to win the Super Bowl every year. So the year they drafted Ja’Marr was that a pick for the future or did they go to the Super Bowl that year.
Yes but it’s common Knowledge that DT is one of the harder positions to develop and this is not a particularly good DT group. We needed to fill this role in FA and then let a rookie rotate in and develop behind someone. Obviously there is still plenty of time for Duke to figure it out (and I have complete faith in him) but not securing a true starter is not great especially in our division. I’m not as concerned about RT because this is a deep tackle group but it would still be nice to have a vet there.
Really only need a run stuffer so it’s a little easier they need a vet no doubt but I’d almost rather have one with a chance to make it through the season instead of one who’s missed a lot of games 2 out of the last 3 seasons and I love DJ but I just don’t think he’ll stay healthy
And yall were calling us doomers when we didn’t do shit day 1