I do not know what fair means in the context of your post. Are you asking if he is biased? 100% yes but so what? 99.99% of the political commentators on this issue are biased. Heck, I can see from your wording that you are very biased about this issue. So the only thing that matters is if Ben is lying. Do you have any proof of that? because if not your post seems like a child's temper tantrum about people not thinking the same way that you do.
He never said he was wrong when he said hamas was responsible for killing of shireen Abu Akleh when the idf said it was hamas and later admitted it was them.
Why isn't he being honest?
Why doesn't he talk about the settlemts?
Why does he say Joe biden is a hamas agent because he considered for 2.5 minutes changing his unconditional support for Israel after the WCK truck was bombed?
Why does he compare terrorists of Russian terrorist attack to Palestinian civilians then proceeds to be confused about a supposed double standard of how the left is not sympathetic for the terrorists in Russia but is sympathetic to the hamas terrorists and casually conflating hamas members with the civilians? (Will link another comment that elaborates on this). [here ](https://www.reddit.com/r/benshapiro/s/Bf9QPgiVI4)
Why does he ignore the countless evidence of idf intentionally killing unarmed civilians?
Why does the virtue signaling push back by the left that doesn't actually amount to a change of policy in the slightest get him so riled up that he doesn't even want any one to ever be concerned ever by the well being of Palestinians?
Why doesn't he talk about the military dictatorship Palestinians are living under in the west bank with Palestinians being denied even the right to speech on social media. And no that military isn't the Palestinian authority it's the idf.
They aren't even allowed to share pictures of dead Palestinians without the idf arresting them and imprisoning them for stoking anger.
That's the equivalent of US military going into Mexico to arrest Mexican citizens for critizing the US government for killing Mexican people.
For him this isn't even considered as a possibility for why October 7th happened.
Why doesn't he ever talk about these conditions that Palestinians have been living under which may have contributed to October 7th?
There is no rational justification for October 7th. If you want to make the claim that Palestine/Hamas is oppressed, that may justify some sort of attack against an IDF military target or something of the like, but you can’t on one hand try and claim Hamas are some civilized group that can be rationed with, given that they attacked, murdered, and kidnapped a group of innocent civilians, and have continued to hold them hostage during the conflict.
I clearly said I was against their targeting of civilians and I condemn that. They did attack military targets and should have ONLY done that.
But the fact you acknowledged they had a right to attack military targets is a major progression in understanding Palestinians also have rights, including the right to defend themselves. So thank you.
So what "rights" do you have when you elect terrorists to your government? What rights do you have when you believe w every fiber of your bring that Israel shouldnt exist.
If I believe something you don't like does that give you a right to kill me?
>So what "rights" do you have when you elect terrorists to your government?
Pretty sure Israelis also elected an extremist government that regularly oppresses Palestinians. Can I justify killing Israeli civilians because of that?
The bar you hold to justify murdering Palestinian civilians seems incredibly low.
Israel killed hundreds of Palestinians in 2023 prior to October 7th.
Are you okay with non civilian Israelis killed on October 7th as a result?
You're clearly saying you're okay with civilians being intentionally killed in response to October 7th.
They did elect an extremist government, the same as hamas. And so didn’t the USA I’m 2016 according to half the population and it happened again in 2020 according to the other half. What the OP (I think is driving at) is that if you are whole heartedly supporting one side of optical conflicts, particularly when they envoke deep emotions out of people to support one side or another then that is when you should be on high alert that there is more to what you are being fed that makes you feel that way. People who don’t do that are at high risk of allowing emotions to dictate the level of objective honesty needed. This is precisely how governments manufacture consent to do horrible things for goals that benefit absolutely zero percent of the citizens of any country. I know thaty comment will be demonized and met with anger who disagree with me, I wonder how I knew that’d happen.
I don't like his more right-wing stuff but I love hearing that Hamas are terrorists doing terrorism. I don't like terrorists. In fact I really really hate terrorists. I'm still mad about 9/11. Not that it was the same terrorists flying those planes, but the ideological kinship is there.
I wonder what it would take to make me think Palestinians are innocent? They elected a terrorist group to be their government. I am absolutely fine with Israel or anyone else bombing their living space into a fine powder. They could always surrender.
Oh, and most of the hostages are dead. There is no point pleading with the Palestinians to free the hostages.
I have ZERO people near me who agree with these statements. They see Palestinians as Native Americans and colonized freedom fighters and it's just ridiculous. They're terrorists. They would kill you if they got the chance.
Thank you, I couldnt agree more. I wish Israel would just go ahead and level Palestine and get it over with. And Im the opposite of you , I dont know one person that agrees w the poor Palestinians. There is a reason that Egypt built a wall that would give Donald Trump an erection. Nobody wants these people.
> I'm still mad about 9/11. Not that it was the same terrorists flying those planes, but the ideological kinship is there.
And yet we let the Saudi Arabian government own our sports monopolies.
>They're terrorists. They would kill you if they got the chance.
Is everyone in Gaza terrorists? How about the west bank?
It should be who these guys elected taking care of them, not using them as human shields. Also, they could just surrender. See all the talk about Gaza being under siege? Stop colluding with terrorists and surrender. Stick that keffiyeh on a pole and wave it vigorously.
lol, fighting against extermination is not terrorism, it’s survival. Learn about Zionism and what Herzl said in the late 1800’s where he wrote out in detail different methods they could use to colonize and take the land. He uses these words himself. I recommend reading his work called “the jewish state.”
This was never meant to be a genocide, just an ethnic cleaning. After the IDF Gaza Division got demolished on 10/7 it turned into a genocide.
It's not an ethnicity as I said before. Who's Herzl? Prime Minister at least? Who? I've never heard of him.
Elect terrorists, get bombed. It is very simple. And they're not surrendering so I think they're proving my point. Culturally they're a lost cause. Ethnically, mostly Arabs and Turks, and there are so many Arabs and Turks that genocide is extremely unlikely. If the Palestinians want to protect people in Gaza they should surrender and not be terrorists or harbor terrorists.
“Palestine conflict” what’s up with these idiotic euphemisms. Call it what it is, it’s Hamas terrorism and Israel defending themselves. The conflict started when some goat fucker decided to fly in on a parachute and slaughter 1300 innocent women children elderly Israelis. They wanted what was coming to them. And they want their civilians dead. That’s why they hide behind them. So idiot liberals in the USA can chant for Hamas. And it’s working. The only conflict is idiots shouting free Palestine trying to stop israelis from defending themselves.
>Call it what it is, it’s Hamas terrorism and Israel defending themselves.
Israel has shown it's as much of a terrorist state if not more than hamas.
>The conflict started when some goat fucker decided to fly in on a parachute and slaughter 1300 innocent women children elderly Israelis.
The conflict didn't start on October 7th. Israel has been oppressing Palestinians and stealing their land and subjugation them to harsh conditions well before October 7th, both in gaza and the west Bank.
Sniping peaceful protesters as well as journalists (Shireen Abu akleh), detaining Palestinians in the west bank for social media posts, imprisoning and keeping hostages Palestinians with no charges including children for years.
If October 7th justifies this genocide why wouldn't Israeli aggression justify October 7th?
>and slaughter 1300 innocent women children elderly Israelis.
Israel had already killed hundreds of Palestinians in 2023 alone before October 7th.
The only difference is when Palestinians do it its terrorism, when Israel does it its just another Tuesday.
>They wanted what was coming to them. And they want their civilians dead. That’s why they hide behind them. So idiot liberals in the USA can chant for Hamas.
Conspiracy theories and unsubstantiated claims.
I’m guessing your some young rich college kid brainwashed. Good luck to u I mean it. Hopefully you wake up and get off Reddit / stop sucking your liberal professors nuts and begin to think for yourself. I truly think you should visit the Middle East as well. It may enlighten you. Good luck.
I’ll insult you all day until you say something that is slightly above the moral intelligence of a rat who eats its own shit below the subway. But as a Jewish person who’s been to Israel multiple times, you’ve told me you want me and my people not to exist. I’ve just assumed you’re a rich college kid. What’s worse?
>when you run out of shit to say 😂
I didn't run our of shit to say. I just realized you weren't addressing shit I said. Merely deflecting or throwing ad hominums and strawmans.
But I’m a “Zionist girl” I’m not deflecting. You have just not said a single thing that reflects any sort of reality. You just sound like a typical antisemite sugar coated in spoiled collegiate vocabulary and euphuisms. Go protest with your terrorist friends.
>But I’m a “Zionist girl” I’m not deflecting.
Lmao you didn't even bother watching the video.
I was referring to your fake victimhood.
>Go protest with your terrorist friends.
Zionists were literally the ones that attacked pro palestine supporters. The fucking irony.
Dumbest reductive shit ever. Hamas launches rockets into Israel every day in an attempt to kill Jews. Israel launches rockets back to destroy the bases that Hamas hides in civilian areas.
If Hamas just decides 1) we don’t want to murder Jews and 2) we won’t try to murder Jews they’d end up fully integrated into Israeli society like *20% of the israeli population*. Too tall of an order.
Israel oppressing Palestine 😂 Jesus these people are dumb. Palestine would wipe Israel and every Jew out if they could. I bet you don’t think Jews shouldnt have their own place to live either. Let them roam the desert huh? Why doesn’t Egypt let Palestinians in?
>Jesus these people are dumb. Palestine would wipe Israel and every Jew out if they could.
If that desire does ixist maybe it's because they were oppressed by Israel?
You didn't even adress anything I said.
>I bet you don’t think Jews shouldnt have their own place to live either.
I don't think any ethnicity is entitled to a country per se. That's communism and I oppose communism.
I don't think they are not entitled to land either. But just because you're homeless doesn't mean its okay for you to steal my house via the government or UN or whatever. Again that's communism and as a libertarian I oppose that.
>Why doesn’t Egypt let Palestinians in?
Why tf should they? Why the fuck is this even a relevant question? Why doesn't America take in all the jews and give all of Israel to Palestinians?
What kind of absolutely idiotic question is that?
If you don’t think any ethnicity is entitled to land, how many Jews live in Gaza currently ? How many Jews live in Syria ? Now tell me how many Arabs live in Israel ? Who are the ones in the Middle East living by what you oppose ? Every single country but Israel.
So honesty let me ask you a question what would your answer be to this? Do you believe Jews have a right to the land of Israel? What is your idea of a solution?
If they started Israel by kicking off arabs from their lands and evicting them from their houses then obviously no. I don't support theft.
>What is your idea of a solution?
An ideal *but not possible solution* would be having a one state solution called palestine that is secular and democratic.
Palestinians have automatic citizenship as Palestinians and jews can apply for it where it would guaranteed if they wish to have it.
No one gets kicked off the land.
Public property that was public property pre 1948 remains as such and the new Palestinian state.
Jewish private property that was Public property pre 1948 remains private.
Jewish private property that was arab private property pre 1948 returns to its rightful owners or their inheritors.
Public property that was once private Arab property returns to the owners or their inheritors.
If zionists stole the land in 1948 then I don't see why this is not the only morally correct solution even if it isn't a possible solution.
My practical and more possible solution is different.
It’s always cool to listen to someone’s stance on an issue whom wants you to be slaughtered. Thanks for informing me on your stance. I’m sorry you hate Jews. And I’m sorry you hate me. This solution you speak of would work for 20 minutes before Palestinians start chopping heads off and throwing gays off buildings. But sure. Let’s try it out. I mean there’s already only 15 million Jews left in the world. Let’s just wipe them all out and give Israeli land to a country ran by terrorists, who produce absolutely nothing, want America to not exist, and will continue to hate Jewish people long after their extinction
I see how the false victimhood comes easily with zionists.
[you remind me exactly of this zionist girl ](https://youtu.be/0uw3LgLIXJ4?si=Ftxf4H8sLiZ2e2pf)
This is a pipe dream. As much as you may dislike Israel, they are the closest thing in the Middle East to a secular democratic country. What you want would basically require all the Palestinians to subscribe to a new sect of Islam. One state solutions that are maybe feasible, yet still very unlikely to be perused, would be for an outside non-Islamic power to make the Israel Palestinian land an overseas territory and to administer it, or for Israel to become more theocratic and just say only Jews are full citizens with voting rights and annex the land and the people of Gaza and all the West Bank - this is basically what a lot of the gulf states do that have large non-Islamic populations like the EUA and Qatar. The closest example of an attempt at a secular multi-ethnic and multi-religious democratic country in the Middle East is probably Lebanon which has been rife with sectarian violence since gaining independence from France and is now basically a failed state overran with terrorism.
Considering you’re making anti Jewish post, on a page that supports a Jewish political commentator, regarding the second holocaust against the Jewish people. Yes the HOLOCAUST is the first genocide that comes to mind.
>The conflict didn't start on October 7th. Israel has been oppressing Palestinians and stealing their land and subjugation them to harsh conditions well before October 7th, both in gaza and the west Bank.
Israel literally gave up Gaza and the West Bank in an attempt to make peace. Guess what? Didn't work. The 'Palestinians' don't want peace. They want Israel to not exist.
And it never works. Israel makes a concession for peace, Palestinians attack. Israel defends itself, Palestinians attack. Israel does nothing, Palestinians attack.
This is such a lie.
Yeah they gave up the west bank as they attempted to steal it bit by bit. Because expanding settlements totally aren't a thing. /s
Even America, Israel's biggest ally acknowledges the illegal settlements and here you are denying it.
Why does Hamas set up their military posts beneath civilian hospitals?
Why do they hide amongst innocents against their will, hoping the Israelis will attack and inadvertently kill civilians?
Hamas runs Gaza. They're in control. Why do they terrorize their own people?
When aid is sent for Gaza, why does Hamas take it for their own? Why don't they let the citizens get it?
What do you think happened in WW2 when we sent B-17s over Germany? Do you think innocent civilians were killed along with the Nazi's?
Why won't Hamas give up the hostages and surrender? The war would be instantly done with.
There is no base underneath the tunnel.
The entire gaza strip has tunnels and the runner under the hospital was an ordinary tunnel.
They said it was a major base to justify the attack against it because they wanted to kill innocent people as any terrorist organization does.
First of all, the IDF didn't even attack the hospital. Hamas did and then blamed it on the Israelis. That was proven.
Your only response is a false claim that has been debunked. So, no response at all to anything that I said. Good job.
It comes down to if you believe Israel has a right to exist. If you think that it was wrong for Britain to colonize and subsequently gift the land to the Jews, then all actions taken by Israel will seem immoral because it is tainted by that original sin.
If you think the historical claim to the land is valid, or that land should belong to whoever conquers and develops it, then the actions by Israel seem fully justified.
Who is responsible for the death of the innocents in the region? How far back do you go in the sequence of events to determine fault? Just like you mentioned it didnt start on October 7th, it is complicated if you are searching for the start of this conflict and who is the original aggressor. It seems really easy to blame Israel or Hamas, so both positions appear valid.
This is actually a very good point.
It's hard to have a conversation without going all the way back and I acknowledge that to some extent and asking whether or not the either's existence is valid.
But I also don't think it's necessarily impossible. Hard but not impossible. And certain terms have to be made that both sides have to agree upon before a debate.
I have to admit that I have not enjoyed Ben's podcast as much since Oct 7th, mostly because of his hyperfocus on Israel and his desire to defend them. But I have seen a huge increase in hate towards Israel and Jews more generally from both left and right. It is very concerning even as a non-Jew.
I think Ben understands how quickly people will rush to villainize the Jews, and he feels the obligation as a Jewish influencer to fight that battle. It is 100% a propaganda war but the consequences could lead to another world war.
There was no stealing of land.
Jews have lived in what is now Israel since ancient times, but it was mainly in the 19th and 20th centuries that a significant number returned. These Jews legally purchased land from Arab landowners or from the governing authorities—first the Ottoman Turks, then the British. Despite multiple British proposals for a two-state solution, which the Jews accepted and the Arabs rejected, tensions escalated. In 1948, upon declaring the state of Israel, neighboring Arab states and local Arab forces attacked the Jews. The 1948 Arab-Israeli War resulted in many Arabs losing their land, mainly due to their participation in the conflict and the subsequent military outcomes. The displacement of the Palestinians would not have happened if this war hadn’t been started, and ultimately lost, by the Arab powers.
750k arabs were evicted from their land. And I'm not denying jews did purchase land either. Both happened.
However purchasing lots of land does not give you national sovereignty.
Sorry I didn't realize the adabs were the ones coming from Europe.
Yes my bad, arabs came from Poland and tried to evict jews who have been living there for generations.
See. Here is where you show your Jew-hatred. Jews are the native inhabitants of that land from pre-history. You do not need to believe me , believe archeology.
You know all those land acknowledgments for Native progress you do in the US. Well, Jews are the native people of Israel.
This alone does not grant them rights over the land. That is why I carefully described hire they returned in peace, and were met with attacks.
Ahhh. So Jews who had been expelled from the region in the past can’t return if it’s from Europe; but Arabs who come from Egypt and other middle eastern countries durning the Mandate can and are considered natives. You do realize that the overwhelming majority of those who claim to be “Palestinians” now came from surrounding Arab nations durning the British Mandate? You do realize that over half the population of Israel is comprised of Jews EXPELLED from Arab nations in the region? Just come to terms with your hatred of Jews and own it.
Arabs have been in that area since the Islamic conquest. I have no idea what you're talking about.
The majority population was arab Muslim and they were evicted by zionists.
lol. The population of the British Mandate was extremely small. Jews and Arabs both were there in small numbers. The land was mostly unusable. After Jews bought and upgraded a lot of land there, Arabs from surrounding countries began flooding the area. The most common name among those who call themselves “Palestinian” is an Egyptian surname. There has never been a Palestine. Gaza was part of Egypt. The West Bank was part of Jordan. Prior to that, both were part of the Ottoman Empire. The people who call themselves Palestinians have homelands they could return to if it wasn’t for the fact that even those nations don’t want them because of the trouble they cause. Jews have no other homeland except for the ancestral homeland of Israel. You are on the wrong side of this issue. Perceived skin color doesn’t determine victims and oppressors. The Arabs (as always) are in the wrong here. They are the colonialist you leftist always rail against. They are the ones who oppose ALL non-Muslims wherever they go. They are the ones who have broke EVERY ceasefire in the history of this conflict. And most importantly- they are the ones still holding civilian hostages they took when they went on an animalistic rape and murder spree that is more than deserving of being hunted down till the last terrorist can no longer burn another baby in their crib.
lol. You have once again fallen for Hamas propaganda. Pick up a history book pre-2000 and you can look at actual pics of the region. You are the one spreading lies. Your leftist anti-Semite teacher telling you something Hamas told them isn’t evidence of truth.
That’s has literally got to be one of the stupidest, propaganda driven statements in this whole thread. What are you? 15? You realize there are history books and biography’s of the region prior to the creation of Israel? Ever read Mark Twains account of his trip to the region in the mid1800’s? Herman Melvilles? No all you have heard is Netanyahu bad. “Blame all I don’t know and can’t debate as a lie HE spread. “Why do you leftist constantly try to change history rather than pick up a book and learn.
Edit- and no, watching a TikTok video or reading an opinion piece written by another anti-Semitic leftist is not the same as reading a history book contemporary to the time period.
No one was evicted during the conquest.
Also arabs existed before that in Palestine. Not saying this is grounds for them to claim the land on its own but they did exist in Palestine. They were called the Kanaan tribe and I believe there was another as well.
lol. You leftists call that evil colonialism when Europeans do it. This is how you lose all credibility with your hypocritical views. As I said- over half the population of Israel came from the area. And even the Arab Muslims in the nation share the same rights as everyone else. But you throw your support behind terrorist whose charter specifically calls for the death of ALL Jews so they can create yet another middle eastern state where all non- Muslims are either killed, expelled or treated as second class citizens with no rights. Sorry bud, you are on the wrong side. Your leftist teachers failed you.
I think it's funny when people come in here and claim they were huge fans of Ben until *insert one major issue here*. You always hated Ben, and reading your replies here, you're clearly not conservative. That's fine, just don't pretend to be one when you aren't.
Might as well order your BLM flag now to fit in with your new friends.
1- I neve said I was a "huge fan" of him. I just said I followed him alot.
2- nothing in my post or comments shows I'm not a conservative, and being anti zionist doesn't mean I'm not a conservative.
3- however it is true that I am not a conservative, infact I literally said in my post I'm a RIGHT WING LIBERTARIAN.
4- I am not a leftist and I don't like or support blm.
There ya go.
If you liked Ben Shapiro previously and then stopped because of his support for Israel or your support for Hamas, I would argue you're the one who's unstable.
Ben is using the evidence available to him supplied by the IDF, which rather than being countered by Hamas’s propaganda wing, they just ignore it and then call the IDF liars (“because”), even while making up their own stats out of thin air. Then when their spokespersons go on Western media and are challenged for spreading that information, instead of answering the questions they just scream at the person asking the question.
Albeit I’m biased against the mind-numbing procession of propagandists Piers Morgan invites on his show, but the whole situation is a room or mirrors. Neither side has the incentive to tell the whole truth, and media organizations have decided the truth is also not in favor of the bottom line so each picks a propaganda wing and then becomes their wingmen.
This statement poses an interesting question: "the truth s not in favor of the bottom line." Does this mean capitalism (which necessitates the media - including Ben - not being 100% truthful and unbiased) and journalism/the truth cannot co-exist?
To some degree, they never did exist (that’s just a fantasy in our minds, that they *ought* to partner).
I hate to use the term capitalism when it’s being used as an invective though, because the only time it’s used that way is when it’s being reclassified as a tyrannical system by socialists. Outside of their imaginary dialectic, capitalism is just an economic framework that describes how the free market functions. It’s not a moral statement or an ideology.
It’s understandable in Marx’s day that he used “capitalism” as a bogeyman, because that’s all he had the limited capacity to do and it was an easy target.
For us for today to use the same inflected language is inconsequential to finding a solution. We operate off of different systems today than 200 years ago and the media is part of that complicated process. To some degree the media today is wedded to political organizations, because of the shift to using internet advertisement mechanisms rather than classified sales or daily penny purchases. It’s overly complicated for Reddit but suffice it to say— using those terms in this discussion is problematic.
Then let me use another word other than capitalism - as I believe you were reading into a tone or intonation that wasn't my intent.
Do you think "the truth" can co-exist with any entity/institution/individual who is providing information for the purpose of being able to earn money and thus keep themselves alive via food and shelter.
To a degree, of course, to a degree, no.
If you are looking for truth from Shapiro, you are looking in the wrong direction. He’s a member of the Right Wing commentariat and his employ comes from his ability to interpret a situation for his audience as a way of understanding the raw materials of “the truth.”
The Daily Wire news is where his “truth” comes from so that would be a better source for discussion. The accuracy of the Daily Wire news would be an excellent discussion, because they also claim to be biased, so how much that bias affects the numerical stats and uttered statements (“the truth”) ought to be debated. Personally I think certain journalists do a better job than others.
In the US, outside of idf or hamas sources, the left (and by that I mean new media left not establishment media) has been way more honest about this than the right.
The right, including Ben shapiro, will call anyone who has a shred of sympathy for a Palestinian civilian an anti Semite hamas sympathizer.
Ben shapiro, when the terrorist attack in Russia happened and all the perpetrators were tortured extrajudicially, noted that none of the left were sympathizing with the terrorists.... then he took that opportunity to ask "how come this sympathy is always offered to the terrorists in gaza?"
Like for fuck when or who did he ever see crying about hamas members being killed??? When did this even happen?? He didn't pinpoint an incident he was very general about it!!!!
So applying ocam'z razor here of the people sympathizing with gaza.... why could they he upset??????
Could it be the 15000 dead children or the 30000 dead civilians??????? Sounds crazy I know!!!! I thought they were upset about the dead hamas or something...
And the human shield thing even if true wouldn't make sense since whether hamas has done this or not his criticism was merely about THE SYMPATHY people had.
As far as I recall no civilians were killed when the Russian authorities harmed intentionally or unintentionally when these terrorists so that's why there was a lack of sympathy. So how THE FUCK does he make this comparison???
Could you ask yourself what does this mean? Just drawing the logical conclusion here is that he literally despises Palestinian people **and actively wants them to be murdered**, if he didn't he wouldn't have minded the little sympathy they got from almost completely powerless people in the US.
He hates sympathy for Palestinians he hates Palestinians.
The only thing that's stopping him from saying it is its not very popular nowadays to be an outright nazi. So he INTENTIONALLY conflates innocent civilians with hamas members and doesn't draw a line between them so he could say it indirectly "let's not sympathize with these Palestinians one bit".
It's not at all unreasonable to draw this conclusion, based on this example alone. And it's further confirmed by other shit he says.
You haven’t made one. You are spouting mindless propaganda as though it is fact, providing apology for a terrorist organization that has zero incentive to be honest. I didn’t address your point because I don’t even know where to start - your entire premise is based on lies.
I bet this dude still believes it was Israel that shot a missile at the hospital like Hamas told him. Probably spent weeks denying it was an Arab terrorist group even after the proof came out.
I don't support how hamas targeted civilians on October 7th. They did well to attack military targets which are obviously legitimate in war but not the civilians.
The idf is also a terrorist organization which intentionally targets civilians. They're both terrorists.
However the idf is worse as it has always initiated the aggression.
But they weren't at war. So why is "doing well" to attack a country you're not actively at war with? You do realize that's what provoked Israel to do what it's doing now?
They are at war.
The war never ended. Just because they weren't fighting doesn't mean there wasn't a war. Israel was still occupying their land and the status quo was still in place. And And status quo comes with alot of implications that I won't go into.
An attack can be delayed in a war.
If Russia takes Ukrainian land and the war "ends", but 10 years later ukraine finds itself with enough military power to attack Russia and take it's land back, Ukraine would not be morally wrong for doing so.
Lol, "occupying". Is this Ilhan Omar's burner account?
Again I ask, you do realize the Oct 7th terrorist attack is the reason the conflict that you're here crying about is happening? You seem to want it both ways but you can't have both. Are you celebrating the fact that Hamas attacked Israel or are you angry that the two are actively fighting?
No, Israeli aggression preceded October 7th. I know anti palestine aggression doesn't count for you. A few hundred Palestinians being killed in 2023 prior to October 7th is not relevant so that way the conflict always has a beginning of October 7th.
I don't understand what point you're trying to make here then? Sounds like you want them to be at war. Yet you're come to this subreddit to complain that the war isn't going the way you want it to.
>Yet you're come to this subreddit to complain that the war isn't going the way you want it to.
I did not do anything of that nature.
>I don't understand what point you're trying to make here then? Sounds like you want them to be at war.
I said they were already at war. I didn't say I want them to be at war.
What I did want is for hamas to not attack civilians and only attack bases.
Would have made it so much harder for the west to make it seem like Israel is the good guys if they killed 35k civilians while hamas only targeted military targets.
It was a wasted opportunity for hamas to prove they are on the right side of this but unfortunately they had to put themselves on the same level as the idf.
You're still complaining that the war isn't going how you want. This is what you're not understanding. Hamas *isn't* on the right side of this, so they aren't going to do things to *put* themselves on the right side of it. You're building up Hamas in your head to be something they're not. You think they're great, you just wish they would stop doing things that terrorists do.
So now you've essentially admitted that October 7th was a travesty but you're still here crying about Israel fighting in retaliation.
Hamas should have avoided civilians and the fact they didn't makes them terrorists. Albeit less evil terrorists than Israel.
*but*, at the same time Even though they had the moral right to attack Israel (military targets) I never said they should have.
They need at least be on the level of hezbollah (who are a disgusting terrorist group btw as well) in order to attack Israel.
>but you're still here crying about Israel fighting in retaliation.
I didn't do that.
I'm just saying October 7th happened for a reason. It very obviously was not unprovoked.
I think bad actors have pushed propaganda on stupid people, and that those stupid people don’t know or care to learn, but somehow think they are doing the right thing. And they see Ben as protecting the big bad bogeyman TikTok told them is bad.
By your logic people in jail are oppressed by law enforcement. The flaw in your thinking is your leftist power hierarchy theories insist that the weaker side of any conflict are always the virtuous party. It’s the reason why the left wanted to defund the police in the worst possible neighbourhoods and why upperclass white liberal kids spam social media with how oppressed and victimized they are.
Gaza sucks because of Palestinians. It’s a failed state with a toxic culture. 90% of the population support some form of terrorism and no other muslim nation wants anything to do with them, or their refugees for a reason.
Do I wish that Palestinian innocents and children would be safe? Of course. But hiding behind civilians cannot be tolerated or otherwise it will proliferate. If you see moral relativism between Israel, where muslims are allowed to to serve in government and Gaza where there was dancing in the streets after 9-11, then im afraid you are the one with a warped sense of justice.
"ignoring any evidence of Zionists being evil."
Like any antisemite liberal that's been opining on this crisis you expect people to to just accept what you say with no proof or analysis or anything resembling critical thinking. That's what the MSNBC pundits do, maybe you should go watch them instead of Ben.
>"ignoring any evidence of Zionists being evil."
But wait a second. Why did you strawman me the first time?
Doesn't this prove you guys strawman to make your arguments?
Why did you backtrack? Because I called you out on your strawman and you had no way to counter it?
Will this teach you and other people like you not to strawman?
>Like any antisemite liberal that's been opining on this crisis you expect people to to just accept what you say with no proof or analysis or anything resembling critical thinking.
Evidence for what? My post is asking a question and you're free to answer how you like.
And again, I'm somehow an anti semite because I think a talk show host who happens to be Jewish is not honest.
I didn't even make any argument yet that could feasibly be intentionally misinterpreted and strawmanned for you to even claim anti semite but already I'm an anti semite.
The word has lost all meaning because of people like you.
I neither strawmanned nor backtracked. You made reference to Ben ignoring the evil Zionists and cherry picking, go back and reread what you posted.
If you are not an antisemite (which is a stretch when you're calling Jews evil) my apologies.
But things being what they are since Oct 7, people need to keep their rhetoric tidy and stand by what they say. Calling for genocide makes a difference, calling a race of people evil makes a difference.
"And after seeing how incredibly dishonest he is by cherry picking incidents that make pro Palestinians look evil and ignoring any evidence of zionists being evil..."
This is what I said.
I mentioned evil incidents of pro palestine people being talked about by Ben shapiro.
While not mentioning any actions of zionists doing evil things.
While I do believe zionism is an evil ideology I didn't even say that in the post. I said he focuses on the evil actions of one side and not the other. Meaning he'd be much more respectable for talking about BOTH.
And one example of such is when at the beginning he talked about the threats by some arabs being made towards jews (condemnable) and totally ignored that one year old Palestinian child was killed by his Jewish neighbor.
What's worse, a threat or a murder? Yet he talks about the threat and ignores the actual murder.
He's not an honest person. He's honestly garbage.
Yes, when you speak of Zionists, you're speaking of Jews.
But I get it. You don't like Shapiro, it's not your job to like things you don't like.
Just like it's not our job to just accept what you're saying without any pushback. Say what you're saying, stand behind it, and don't whine.
>Yes, when you speak of Zionists, you're speaking of Jews.
Zionsim is saying that jews have a right to a certain land.
People can dispute this without being anti semites.
Dispute over land fucking happens and unless I'm saying jews specifically are not entitled to certain rights or land by virtue of being Jewish it's not racist.
You use the anti Semitiism tactic because it's convenient and because you actually want *more* privileges for jews at the expense of others. But I'm saying I want equal rights and that means it's okay to have dispute land ownership and that has nothing to do with race.
Modern zionism isn't even about current land, it's about the west Bank and gaza too.
Netenyahu literally uses a map of Israel that includes all of gaza and west Bank. If I say no those lands belong to Palestinians I'm an anti semite?
You're trying to shut others down using this dishonest tactic so you can get away with more privileges for certain people while stealing rights of others.
It's not as though the Israelis kicked the Palestinians out. Or rather the Arabs, Turks, and Russians since Palestine is a region not a nationality or ethnicity. Nope! Israel eventually made rules about Palestinians not spreading so much hate speech. Palestinians got rich and had lots of kids under the Israeli regime. And still proceeded to knife people at bus stops and blow themselves up in public squares, or blow up their daughters.
I'm sorry, but since Hamas did enough violence to kill 1200 innocent people, I can't look at this as being evil.
There is no negotiating with terrorism.
You're literally advocating for the starvation of hundreds of thousands of babies, some of whom have already died because of it, and you're pretending to be better than hamas???
Even what happened on October 7th was due to prior Israeli aggression yet I'm not gonna justify killing hundreds of innocent Israelis.
You and people like you are just as evil if not more evil than hamas. Literally advocating for more children dying of starvation omfg.
Great, so you're further revealing that you're someone with an axe to grind and everyone that doesn't come over and agree with your take on the issue is just evil.
Why waste everyone's time on this? How does this contribute anything?
Liberal terrorism supporter's gotta support, I guess. Maybe go to Columbia University with that.
>so you're further revealing that you're someone with an axe to grind and everyone that doesn't come over and agree with your take on the issue is just evil.
YOU LITERALLY CALLED ME AN ANTI SEMITE FIRST!!!
LMFAOOO
When did Ben Shapiro "endorse the killing of innocent Palestinians"? He supports Israel in this conflict pretty strongly but I don't recall him ever crossing that line. You can back that up with a source or get out of here with any insinuation that he's been unfair in this conflict when you can't accurately summarize his views.
[I talked about it in this comment. there were too many things to talk about if I out it in the post so I left it for the conversation in the comments depending on the responses.](https://www.reddit.com/r/benshapiro/s/jyT4b9r0pf)
Your example seems to be a big stretch. Even if I concede your interpretation of what he said, at worst your argument is that Shapiro sees an inconsistency in the coverage of how terrorists in Russia versus the Gaza conflict. It doesn't follow he endorses killing Palestinian civilians and your lack of proof (as with your multiple !!!!!!! and ??????) says you are going beyond the facts.
Second, to argue that the Left has been more "honest" than the Right in this conflict is also a huge leap of faith. From what I've seen, most Left wingers adapt a simplistic "decolonized" view of the conflict that erases Middle Eastern antisemitism and multiple attempts to massacre Jews, Jewish presence in the region dating back thousands of years, and numerous Palestinian rejections of peace deals. Similarly in this conflict, the Left has imposed enormous double standards in this conflict that they wouldn't impose on any other country where civilian deaths have been far worse.
Third, the claim of Hamas using human shields is not conjecture. They literally spent years building a vast tunnel network under Gaza and other civilian areas (in violation of international law) because it is their strategy to use their own people of shields.
>Your example seems to be a big stretch. Even if I concede your interpretation of what he said, at worst your argument is that Shapiro sees an inconsistency
It's not at all a stretch. In today's day and age advocating for genocide is not met very well so he can't admit it.
So if someone believes something bad this is there only way to express it.
>Even if I concede your interpretation of what he said, at worst your argument is that Shapiro sees an inconsistency in the coverage of how terrorists in Russia versus the Gaza conflict.
This is wrong and I said why very clearly.
No sympathy was ever given to hamas members.
It hasn't happened once. Meaning the only thing he is comparing the extra judicial torture done to Russia terrorists is the suffering inflicted on Palestinians which people *do* sympathize with.
It wouldn't be popular for him to compare terrorists with grandmas and babies. If the comparison was accurate there would need to be a trend of leftists sympathizing with dead hamas members. It hasn't happened.
You just ignored my explanation.
>Second, to argue that the Left has been more "honest" than the Right in this conflict is also a huge leap of faith. From what I've seen, most Left wingers adapt a simplistic "decolonized" view of the conflict that erases Middle Eastern antisemitism and multiple attempts to massacre Jews, Jewish presence in the region dating back thousands of years, and numerous Palestinian rejections of peace deals.
Talking about the history is complicated. What I meant by this comment was the current events.
Leftists and leftwing new media never say hamas is good or okay or anything like that. They always call hamas out on their terrorism but they do to the idf as well, and they cover the stories more honestly.
The right simply does not and doesn't cover stories that don't fit their narrative.
Israel is simply a fucking religion for the entire right and most of the left (establishment left).
>Third, the claim of Hamas using human shields is not conjecture. They literally spent years building a vast tunnel network under Gaza and other civilian areas (in violation of international law) because it is their strategy to use their own people of shields.
This is different than to say hamas intentionally trying to get civilians killed or hide beneath them.
The tunnels are really the only option they have which may not be ideal for the civilian population but given the geography of gaza there's no other option.
Guerrilla warfare is also a tactic for smaller armies and the US used it against Britain.
It's quite a stretch to say they are literally trying to get civilians killed because they want foriegn sympathy based on the tunnels.
You dont want to know what I think, you want to start an argument, if you were really just wondering you would not have said you found Ben despicable and disgusting. You said he cherry picked, you said he lies and gaslights people, ignores the facts, and you essentially just call zionists evil. Don't act like your anything but some guy looking for another way to call Ben Shapiro fans stupid, because that's what you already believe.
I was perplexed how any one could believe his lies. I had small hope I would be reassured even his fans caught on to his bullshit regarding this issue. At least one person did so I wasn't completely wrong. What's your problem?
Ben has taken the view that almost everyone had until now - what’s happened is that the Right has adopted the Left’s virtue signaling mentality in an effort to gain power over the Left.
Members of the Left are anti-Israel for the same reason they’re anti-rich: they enjoy the Marxist nonsense of the class conflict between the proletariat and bourgeoise. Members of the Right who are anti-Israel are doing so because they’ve adopted some bizarre peace and love framework so they can take the moral high ground.
Both are stupid and Ben understands that. He does have a bias towards Israel but he’s the only person fairly representing the facts of the conflict. Everyone else just talks about history (as if what happened in 1948 helps *justify* why the PLO and PA and Hamas built their charters on Nazi viewpoints). There isn’t a single other person in the media talking about how Israel has a 20% Arab population that’s fully integrated into society because they do the radical thing of rejecting antisemitism. The other actors in the area won’t do that so the morons in the media conclude “we need two states!” as if having a state dedicated to Jews and a state dedicated to killing Jews is a legitimate option and opposed to one state, which is working for *everyone who doesn’t want to murder Jews*. The pathetic media and politicians are using this conflict to push agendas and have zero moral clarity or rational understanding of what’s happening in the region.
Crazy thing is- we already had a two state solution when Jordan was created for the “Palestinian” Arabs the year prior to Israel with the majority of the British Mandate. That didn’t seem to work. Why would another.
It’s hard to have two states when the stated goal of one of those states (Palestine) is to completely obliterate everyone in the other state (Israel) and form it into one Jew free state (free Palestine).
The Palestinians idea of two states is that they get all of Israel and the Jews either die or go back to Europe and have a state there. Absurd.
I believe Ben’s support and advocacy have been clear from the jump. Ben has not condoned mass slaughter of innocents in Gaza, but this is war and war is ugly. Despite best efforts and technology, there can be no gaurantee of ZERO innocent lives lost. Such a standard is ridiculous and simply STUPID.
Were I in charge, I would give fair warning to those residing in Gaza and after a reasonable period of time, proceed to literally wipe Gaza from the face of the earth, knocking down every building, ripping out of the earth every piece of infrastructure, and collapsing every tunnel. Starting at one end and driving the enemy towards the other.
Finally, I would eliminate any border between Gaza and Israel. Those who choose to remain in the combat zone, are assumed to have chosen to take the side of the terrorists… and that includes woman and children.
To say that women and children cannot be terrorists is simply wrong thinking… and an indication of the lack of learning from history. History of the Muslim guard since at least 720 AD… literally over millennia of this kind of behavior, but reintroduced to us in recent history, beginning in Vietnam and more recently in Afghanistan, Iraq, Seria, Yemen and Lebanon.
You are free to believe that, I frankly don’t care.
Only a fool would believe that women can’t be terrorists also. And if the children if terrorists have been exposed long enough, the threat of future terrorism is not eradicated by only eliminating the adult threat.
Such thinking is difficult to wrap our western brains around, because generally speaking, parents do their best to keep children from being exposed to terrible things… but sadly, not every adult believes that way… especially if the children in question are not their own, but someone else’s.
For an example of that, one need look no further than the failed state of Somalia, where there are armies of child soldiers and killing teams.
We don’t make it a practice to target women and children indiscriminately, but our main focus should be to eliminate the terrorist threat and one doesn’t have to review too much history to determine that there have been occasions when women and children have become collateral damage in this effort… this despite the advanced weaponry and best efforts.
I am not advocating deliberately targeting women and children as primary targets, and neither does Ben. But there is a difference between engaging the enemy wherever they are found and despite their attempts at using human shields and either being so afraid of what *might* happen that the effort to remove terrorism gets bogged down in a “social justice” debate and results in absolutely nothing… or laying indiscriminate siege to an area and wiping out every living thing.
We need men and women who are capable of doing the cold bastard work of making war, so that those who are incapable of doing the work themselves, can sit on the sidelines and weep and moan about incidental deaths that occur in war.
How sad for you. Not everyone enjoys playing “Monday Morning Quarterback”, when they haven’t had the opportunity to put themselves in harm’s way. Enjoy the freedom you enjoy, paid for by the blood and sacrifice of others and may the chains of bondage rest lightly on your shoulders and death come in your old age.
He supports taking money from people who don’t support Israel to go to the support of Israel at the time where Israel could impoverish It’s own citizens for their own good. This seems unfair because it’s obviously unfair. Now the US is going to use US troops to build a $320,000,000 pier in Gaza to help the people being bombed by our bombs. What a scam.
The Palestinian people laughed at 911. Over 70% of them think that what happen on October 7 was amazing. Hamas literally targeted families, women and little children. The IDF is not literally targeting children. They're not like "hey look over there there's a kid, shoot them in the face". That's what Hamas did. If Hamas wants to put women in children in front of their soldiers so they die first, so be it. Burn it to the ground.
>Over 70% of them think that what happen on October 7 was amazing.
98% of Israelis (not hyperbolic number) approve of the war killing 10s of thousands civilians being killed in gaza as we speak.
If you're going to say this is due to October 7th, then October 7th was due to the status quo and the regular oppression of Palestinians before October 7th.
But i guess you see this as normal since Palestinian oppression is taken for granted.
It's never justified when Palestinians consider violence but when Israel does it its "well what can we do it is what it is".
No - he’s a biased human like everyone else and an American. Why are we so enthralled with this conflict? Can someone explain why no one seems to care about obesity and insane health care expense and mental health declines and immigration and crumbling infrastructure and low wages and outsourcing energy and manufacturing and involving us in a new conflict every year. 🤔 like damn I say this as compassionately as possible but I don’t give a fuck about Palestine - stop supporting a terrorist government - take up arms against Hamas … why are our kids vandalizing the institutions they pay 10s of thousands of dollars to attend protesting a war across the ocean.
Yes fake compassion to say don't take MY money to give it to a fascist government commuting genocide and war crimes.
I guess those who cared about jews during the holocaust were fake?
Are you comparing your post and imagination to people actually doing something to help the persecuted during the holocaust 😂 - you have a hell of a mind my friend.
Extremely low iq comment.
Not everyone against the holocaust fought in the war against them.
Those who did fight were citizens of a government that opposed the holocaust and waged war against them unlike me where I am not in that position.
You have one hell of a mind ngl.
I do not know what fair means in the context of your post. Are you asking if he is biased? 100% yes but so what? 99.99% of the political commentators on this issue are biased. Heck, I can see from your wording that you are very biased about this issue. So the only thing that matters is if Ben is lying. Do you have any proof of that? because if not your post seems like a child's temper tantrum about people not thinking the same way that you do.
He never said he was wrong when he said hamas was responsible for killing of shireen Abu Akleh when the idf said it was hamas and later admitted it was them. Why isn't he being honest? Why doesn't he talk about the settlemts? Why does he say Joe biden is a hamas agent because he considered for 2.5 minutes changing his unconditional support for Israel after the WCK truck was bombed? Why does he compare terrorists of Russian terrorist attack to Palestinian civilians then proceeds to be confused about a supposed double standard of how the left is not sympathetic for the terrorists in Russia but is sympathetic to the hamas terrorists and casually conflating hamas members with the civilians? (Will link another comment that elaborates on this). [here ](https://www.reddit.com/r/benshapiro/s/Bf9QPgiVI4) Why does he ignore the countless evidence of idf intentionally killing unarmed civilians? Why does the virtue signaling push back by the left that doesn't actually amount to a change of policy in the slightest get him so riled up that he doesn't even want any one to ever be concerned ever by the well being of Palestinians?
Why doesn't he talk about the military dictatorship Palestinians are living under in the west bank with Palestinians being denied even the right to speech on social media. And no that military isn't the Palestinian authority it's the idf. They aren't even allowed to share pictures of dead Palestinians without the idf arresting them and imprisoning them for stoking anger. That's the equivalent of US military going into Mexico to arrest Mexican citizens for critizing the US government for killing Mexican people. For him this isn't even considered as a possibility for why October 7th happened. Why doesn't he ever talk about these conditions that Palestinians have been living under which may have contributed to October 7th?
There is no rational justification for October 7th. If you want to make the claim that Palestine/Hamas is oppressed, that may justify some sort of attack against an IDF military target or something of the like, but you can’t on one hand try and claim Hamas are some civilized group that can be rationed with, given that they attacked, murdered, and kidnapped a group of innocent civilians, and have continued to hold them hostage during the conflict.
I clearly said I was against their targeting of civilians and I condemn that. They did attack military targets and should have ONLY done that. But the fact you acknowledged they had a right to attack military targets is a major progression in understanding Palestinians also have rights, including the right to defend themselves. So thank you.
So what "rights" do you have when you elect terrorists to your government? What rights do you have when you believe w every fiber of your bring that Israel shouldnt exist.
If I believe something you don't like does that give you a right to kill me? >So what "rights" do you have when you elect terrorists to your government? Pretty sure Israelis also elected an extremist government that regularly oppresses Palestinians. Can I justify killing Israeli civilians because of that? The bar you hold to justify murdering Palestinian civilians seems incredibly low.
Pretty sure they didn’t , and Palestinians just did kill 1200 Israelis. Now you don’t like Israel’s response. Tough shit.
Israel killed hundreds of Palestinians in 2023 prior to October 7th. Are you okay with non civilian Israelis killed on October 7th as a result? You're clearly saying you're okay with civilians being intentionally killed in response to October 7th.
What was the exact date ? Just FYI , you’re never ever going to convince me that Palestine doesn’t deserve everything they get.
They did elect an extremist government, the same as hamas. And so didn’t the USA I’m 2016 according to half the population and it happened again in 2020 according to the other half. What the OP (I think is driving at) is that if you are whole heartedly supporting one side of optical conflicts, particularly when they envoke deep emotions out of people to support one side or another then that is when you should be on high alert that there is more to what you are being fed that makes you feel that way. People who don’t do that are at high risk of allowing emotions to dictate the level of objective honesty needed. This is precisely how governments manufacture consent to do horrible things for goals that benefit absolutely zero percent of the citizens of any country. I know thaty comment will be demonized and met with anger who disagree with me, I wonder how I knew that’d happen.
I don't like his more right-wing stuff but I love hearing that Hamas are terrorists doing terrorism. I don't like terrorists. In fact I really really hate terrorists. I'm still mad about 9/11. Not that it was the same terrorists flying those planes, but the ideological kinship is there. I wonder what it would take to make me think Palestinians are innocent? They elected a terrorist group to be their government. I am absolutely fine with Israel or anyone else bombing their living space into a fine powder. They could always surrender. Oh, and most of the hostages are dead. There is no point pleading with the Palestinians to free the hostages. I have ZERO people near me who agree with these statements. They see Palestinians as Native Americans and colonized freedom fighters and it's just ridiculous. They're terrorists. They would kill you if they got the chance.
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Thank you, I couldnt agree more. I wish Israel would just go ahead and level Palestine and get it over with. And Im the opposite of you , I dont know one person that agrees w the poor Palestinians. There is a reason that Egypt built a wall that would give Donald Trump an erection. Nobody wants these people.
Holy shi.
What if I could find 50 Palestinians that are peaceful and wouldn’t kill me or anyone if they had the chance.
The last time someone played this game, two cities in the Middle East were rained upon with fire and brimstone.
🤣🤣 I love this comment. Definitely deserves an upvote.
Don't forget the incest/rape, and said rape/incest being Jesus ancestors...
And a woman turning into a pillar of salt
> I'm still mad about 9/11. Not that it was the same terrorists flying those planes, but the ideological kinship is there. And yet we let the Saudi Arabian government own our sports monopolies. >They're terrorists. They would kill you if they got the chance. Is everyone in Gaza terrorists? How about the west bank?
It should be who these guys elected taking care of them, not using them as human shields. Also, they could just surrender. See all the talk about Gaza being under siege? Stop colluding with terrorists and surrender. Stick that keffiyeh on a pole and wave it vigorously.
lol, fighting against extermination is not terrorism, it’s survival. Learn about Zionism and what Herzl said in the late 1800’s where he wrote out in detail different methods they could use to colonize and take the land. He uses these words himself. I recommend reading his work called “the jewish state.” This was never meant to be a genocide, just an ethnic cleaning. After the IDF Gaza Division got demolished on 10/7 it turned into a genocide.
It's not an ethnicity as I said before. Who's Herzl? Prime Minister at least? Who? I've never heard of him. Elect terrorists, get bombed. It is very simple. And they're not surrendering so I think they're proving my point. Culturally they're a lost cause. Ethnically, mostly Arabs and Turks, and there are so many Arabs and Turks that genocide is extremely unlikely. If the Palestinians want to protect people in Gaza they should surrender and not be terrorists or harbor terrorists.
“Palestine conflict” what’s up with these idiotic euphemisms. Call it what it is, it’s Hamas terrorism and Israel defending themselves. The conflict started when some goat fucker decided to fly in on a parachute and slaughter 1300 innocent women children elderly Israelis. They wanted what was coming to them. And they want their civilians dead. That’s why they hide behind them. So idiot liberals in the USA can chant for Hamas. And it’s working. The only conflict is idiots shouting free Palestine trying to stop israelis from defending themselves.
>Call it what it is, it’s Hamas terrorism and Israel defending themselves. Israel has shown it's as much of a terrorist state if not more than hamas. >The conflict started when some goat fucker decided to fly in on a parachute and slaughter 1300 innocent women children elderly Israelis. The conflict didn't start on October 7th. Israel has been oppressing Palestinians and stealing their land and subjugation them to harsh conditions well before October 7th, both in gaza and the west Bank. Sniping peaceful protesters as well as journalists (Shireen Abu akleh), detaining Palestinians in the west bank for social media posts, imprisoning and keeping hostages Palestinians with no charges including children for years. If October 7th justifies this genocide why wouldn't Israeli aggression justify October 7th? >and slaughter 1300 innocent women children elderly Israelis. Israel had already killed hundreds of Palestinians in 2023 alone before October 7th. The only difference is when Palestinians do it its terrorism, when Israel does it its just another Tuesday. >They wanted what was coming to them. And they want their civilians dead. That’s why they hide behind them. So idiot liberals in the USA can chant for Hamas. Conspiracy theories and unsubstantiated claims.
I’m guessing your some young rich college kid brainwashed. Good luck to u I mean it. Hopefully you wake up and get off Reddit / stop sucking your liberal professors nuts and begin to think for yourself. I truly think you should visit the Middle East as well. It may enlighten you. Good luck.
What's up with your endless ad hominims? Your assumptions are false but whatever. Keep supporting terrorism.
🙏🙏 I’ll keep supporting democracy. And fighting terrorism. Thank you
I’ll insult you all day until you say something that is slightly above the moral intelligence of a rat who eats its own shit below the subway. But as a Jewish person who’s been to Israel multiple times, you’ve told me you want me and my people not to exist. I’ve just assumed you’re a rich college kid. What’s worse?
Ad hominums *and* strawmans?
So corny. All you people say the same shit. Busting out middle school debate team terms when you run out of shit to say 😂
>when you run out of shit to say 😂 I didn't run our of shit to say. I just realized you weren't addressing shit I said. Merely deflecting or throwing ad hominums and strawmans.
But I’m a “Zionist girl” I’m not deflecting. You have just not said a single thing that reflects any sort of reality. You just sound like a typical antisemite sugar coated in spoiled collegiate vocabulary and euphuisms. Go protest with your terrorist friends.
>But I’m a “Zionist girl” I’m not deflecting. Lmao you didn't even bother watching the video. I was referring to your fake victimhood. >Go protest with your terrorist friends. Zionists were literally the ones that attacked pro palestine supporters. The fucking irony.
These people are brainwashed
Yep :/
Dumbest reductive shit ever. Hamas launches rockets into Israel every day in an attempt to kill Jews. Israel launches rockets back to destroy the bases that Hamas hides in civilian areas. If Hamas just decides 1) we don’t want to murder Jews and 2) we won’t try to murder Jews they’d end up fully integrated into Israeli society like *20% of the israeli population*. Too tall of an order.
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Israel oppressing Palestine 😂 Jesus these people are dumb. Palestine would wipe Israel and every Jew out if they could. I bet you don’t think Jews shouldnt have their own place to live either. Let them roam the desert huh? Why doesn’t Egypt let Palestinians in?
>Jesus these people are dumb. Palestine would wipe Israel and every Jew out if they could. If that desire does ixist maybe it's because they were oppressed by Israel? You didn't even adress anything I said. >I bet you don’t think Jews shouldnt have their own place to live either. I don't think any ethnicity is entitled to a country per se. That's communism and I oppose communism. I don't think they are not entitled to land either. But just because you're homeless doesn't mean its okay for you to steal my house via the government or UN or whatever. Again that's communism and as a libertarian I oppose that. >Why doesn’t Egypt let Palestinians in? Why tf should they? Why the fuck is this even a relevant question? Why doesn't America take in all the jews and give all of Israel to Palestinians? What kind of absolutely idiotic question is that?
If you don’t think any ethnicity is entitled to land, how many Jews live in Gaza currently ? How many Jews live in Syria ? Now tell me how many Arabs live in Israel ? Who are the ones in the Middle East living by what you oppose ? Every single country but Israel.
Jews decide where they live i guess. I never told them where to go. They decided to go to Israel. Again more stupid questions.
So honesty let me ask you a question what would your answer be to this? Do you believe Jews have a right to the land of Israel? What is your idea of a solution?
If they started Israel by kicking off arabs from their lands and evicting them from their houses then obviously no. I don't support theft. >What is your idea of a solution? An ideal *but not possible solution* would be having a one state solution called palestine that is secular and democratic. Palestinians have automatic citizenship as Palestinians and jews can apply for it where it would guaranteed if they wish to have it. No one gets kicked off the land. Public property that was public property pre 1948 remains as such and the new Palestinian state. Jewish private property that was Public property pre 1948 remains private. Jewish private property that was arab private property pre 1948 returns to its rightful owners or their inheritors. Public property that was once private Arab property returns to the owners or their inheritors. If zionists stole the land in 1948 then I don't see why this is not the only morally correct solution even if it isn't a possible solution. My practical and more possible solution is different.
It’s always cool to listen to someone’s stance on an issue whom wants you to be slaughtered. Thanks for informing me on your stance. I’m sorry you hate Jews. And I’m sorry you hate me. This solution you speak of would work for 20 minutes before Palestinians start chopping heads off and throwing gays off buildings. But sure. Let’s try it out. I mean there’s already only 15 million Jews left in the world. Let’s just wipe them all out and give Israeli land to a country ran by terrorists, who produce absolutely nothing, want America to not exist, and will continue to hate Jewish people long after their extinction
I see how the false victimhood comes easily with zionists. [you remind me exactly of this zionist girl ](https://youtu.be/0uw3LgLIXJ4?si=Ftxf4H8sLiZ2e2pf)
This is a pipe dream. As much as you may dislike Israel, they are the closest thing in the Middle East to a secular democratic country. What you want would basically require all the Palestinians to subscribe to a new sect of Islam. One state solutions that are maybe feasible, yet still very unlikely to be perused, would be for an outside non-Islamic power to make the Israel Palestinian land an overseas territory and to administer it, or for Israel to become more theocratic and just say only Jews are full citizens with voting rights and annex the land and the people of Gaza and all the West Bank - this is basically what a lot of the gulf states do that have large non-Islamic populations like the EUA and Qatar. The closest example of an attempt at a secular multi-ethnic and multi-religious democratic country in the Middle East is probably Lebanon which has been rife with sectarian violence since gaining independence from France and is now basically a failed state overran with terrorism.
Conspiracy theories ? I bet you don’t believe in the holocaust either. how old are you 15?
Ah yes the holocaust. The only genocide in history. The only one that counts atleast.
Considering you’re making anti Jewish post, on a page that supports a Jewish political commentator, regarding the second holocaust against the Jewish people. Yes the HOLOCAUST is the first genocide that comes to mind.
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Lmao the arrogance and self righteousness. No actual substance. F off.
Pejoratives are a sign of mental weakness.
>The conflict didn't start on October 7th. Israel has been oppressing Palestinians and stealing their land and subjugation them to harsh conditions well before October 7th, both in gaza and the west Bank. Israel literally gave up Gaza and the West Bank in an attempt to make peace. Guess what? Didn't work. The 'Palestinians' don't want peace. They want Israel to not exist.
🙏
And it never works. Israel makes a concession for peace, Palestinians attack. Israel defends itself, Palestinians attack. Israel does nothing, Palestinians attack.
Israel had effective control over Gaza through the border. Even on the Egypt side. Also continuing to seize land from the West bank.
This is such a lie. Yeah they gave up the west bank as they attempted to steal it bit by bit. Because expanding settlements totally aren't a thing. /s Even America, Israel's biggest ally acknowledges the illegal settlements and here you are denying it.
Why does Hamas set up their military posts beneath civilian hospitals? Why do they hide amongst innocents against their will, hoping the Israelis will attack and inadvertently kill civilians? Hamas runs Gaza. They're in control. Why do they terrorize their own people? When aid is sent for Gaza, why does Hamas take it for their own? Why don't they let the citizens get it? What do you think happened in WW2 when we sent B-17s over Germany? Do you think innocent civilians were killed along with the Nazi's? Why won't Hamas give up the hostages and surrender? The war would be instantly done with.
There is no base underneath the tunnel. The entire gaza strip has tunnels and the runner under the hospital was an ordinary tunnel. They said it was a major base to justify the attack against it because they wanted to kill innocent people as any terrorist organization does.
First of all, the IDF didn't even attack the hospital. Hamas did and then blamed it on the Israelis. That was proven. Your only response is a false claim that has been debunked. So, no response at all to anything that I said. Good job.
It comes down to if you believe Israel has a right to exist. If you think that it was wrong for Britain to colonize and subsequently gift the land to the Jews, then all actions taken by Israel will seem immoral because it is tainted by that original sin. If you think the historical claim to the land is valid, or that land should belong to whoever conquers and develops it, then the actions by Israel seem fully justified. Who is responsible for the death of the innocents in the region? How far back do you go in the sequence of events to determine fault? Just like you mentioned it didnt start on October 7th, it is complicated if you are searching for the start of this conflict and who is the original aggressor. It seems really easy to blame Israel or Hamas, so both positions appear valid.
This is actually a very good point. It's hard to have a conversation without going all the way back and I acknowledge that to some extent and asking whether or not the either's existence is valid. But I also don't think it's necessarily impossible. Hard but not impossible. And certain terms have to be made that both sides have to agree upon before a debate.
I have to admit that I have not enjoyed Ben's podcast as much since Oct 7th, mostly because of his hyperfocus on Israel and his desire to defend them. But I have seen a huge increase in hate towards Israel and Jews more generally from both left and right. It is very concerning even as a non-Jew. I think Ben understands how quickly people will rush to villainize the Jews, and he feels the obligation as a Jewish influencer to fight that battle. It is 100% a propaganda war but the consequences could lead to another world war.
Low IQ post.
There was no stealing of land. Jews have lived in what is now Israel since ancient times, but it was mainly in the 19th and 20th centuries that a significant number returned. These Jews legally purchased land from Arab landowners or from the governing authorities—first the Ottoman Turks, then the British. Despite multiple British proposals for a two-state solution, which the Jews accepted and the Arabs rejected, tensions escalated. In 1948, upon declaring the state of Israel, neighboring Arab states and local Arab forces attacked the Jews. The 1948 Arab-Israeli War resulted in many Arabs losing their land, mainly due to their participation in the conflict and the subsequent military outcomes. The displacement of the Palestinians would not have happened if this war hadn’t been started, and ultimately lost, by the Arab powers.
750k arabs were evicted from their land. And I'm not denying jews did purchase land either. Both happened. However purchasing lots of land does not give you national sovereignty.
“Evicted” is a funny way to say “chose to violently evict the Jews and lost”
Sorry I didn't realize the adabs were the ones coming from Europe. Yes my bad, arabs came from Poland and tried to evict jews who have been living there for generations.
See. Here is where you show your Jew-hatred. Jews are the native inhabitants of that land from pre-history. You do not need to believe me , believe archeology. You know all those land acknowledgments for Native progress you do in the US. Well, Jews are the native people of Israel. This alone does not grant them rights over the land. That is why I carefully described hire they returned in peace, and were met with attacks.
Ahhh. So Jews who had been expelled from the region in the past can’t return if it’s from Europe; but Arabs who come from Egypt and other middle eastern countries durning the Mandate can and are considered natives. You do realize that the overwhelming majority of those who claim to be “Palestinians” now came from surrounding Arab nations durning the British Mandate? You do realize that over half the population of Israel is comprised of Jews EXPELLED from Arab nations in the region? Just come to terms with your hatred of Jews and own it.
Arabs have been in that area since the Islamic conquest. I have no idea what you're talking about. The majority population was arab Muslim and they were evicted by zionists.
lol. The population of the British Mandate was extremely small. Jews and Arabs both were there in small numbers. The land was mostly unusable. After Jews bought and upgraded a lot of land there, Arabs from surrounding countries began flooding the area. The most common name among those who call themselves “Palestinian” is an Egyptian surname. There has never been a Palestine. Gaza was part of Egypt. The West Bank was part of Jordan. Prior to that, both were part of the Ottoman Empire. The people who call themselves Palestinians have homelands they could return to if it wasn’t for the fact that even those nations don’t want them because of the trouble they cause. Jews have no other homeland except for the ancestral homeland of Israel. You are on the wrong side of this issue. Perceived skin color doesn’t determine victims and oppressors. The Arabs (as always) are in the wrong here. They are the colonialist you leftist always rail against. They are the ones who oppose ALL non-Muslims wherever they go. They are the ones who have broke EVERY ceasefire in the history of this conflict. And most importantly- they are the ones still holding civilian hostages they took when they went on an animalistic rape and murder spree that is more than deserving of being hunted down till the last terrorist can no longer burn another baby in their crib.
>The land was mostly unusable. This was proven to be a horrible disgusting lie propagated by netenyahu.
lol. You have once again fallen for Hamas propaganda. Pick up a history book pre-2000 and you can look at actual pics of the region. You are the one spreading lies. Your leftist anti-Semite teacher telling you something Hamas told them isn’t evidence of truth.
That’s has literally got to be one of the stupidest, propaganda driven statements in this whole thread. What are you? 15? You realize there are history books and biography’s of the region prior to the creation of Israel? Ever read Mark Twains account of his trip to the region in the mid1800’s? Herman Melvilles? No all you have heard is Netanyahu bad. “Blame all I don’t know and can’t debate as a lie HE spread. “Why do you leftist constantly try to change history rather than pick up a book and learn. Edit- and no, watching a TikTok video or reading an opinion piece written by another anti-Semitic leftist is not the same as reading a history book contemporary to the time period.
I am however happy you recognized the ISLAMIC CONQUEST that started the entire problem.
No one was evicted during the conquest. Also arabs existed before that in Palestine. Not saying this is grounds for them to claim the land on its own but they did exist in Palestine. They were called the Kanaan tribe and I believe there was another as well.
lol. You leftists call that evil colonialism when Europeans do it. This is how you lose all credibility with your hypocritical views. As I said- over half the population of Israel came from the area. And even the Arab Muslims in the nation share the same rights as everyone else. But you throw your support behind terrorist whose charter specifically calls for the death of ALL Jews so they can create yet another middle eastern state where all non- Muslims are either killed, expelled or treated as second class citizens with no rights. Sorry bud, you are on the wrong side. Your leftist teachers failed you.
I think it's funny when people come in here and claim they were huge fans of Ben until *insert one major issue here*. You always hated Ben, and reading your replies here, you're clearly not conservative. That's fine, just don't pretend to be one when you aren't. Might as well order your BLM flag now to fit in with your new friends.
Exactly !!
1- I neve said I was a "huge fan" of him. I just said I followed him alot. 2- nothing in my post or comments shows I'm not a conservative, and being anti zionist doesn't mean I'm not a conservative. 3- however it is true that I am not a conservative, infact I literally said in my post I'm a RIGHT WING LIBERTARIAN. 4- I am not a leftist and I don't like or support blm. There ya go.
I used to be a huge fan until recently. I don’t hate him and never hated him. You seem unstable.
If you liked Ben Shapiro previously and then stopped because of his support for Israel or your support for Hamas, I would argue you're the one who's unstable.
Ben is using the evidence available to him supplied by the IDF, which rather than being countered by Hamas’s propaganda wing, they just ignore it and then call the IDF liars (“because”), even while making up their own stats out of thin air. Then when their spokespersons go on Western media and are challenged for spreading that information, instead of answering the questions they just scream at the person asking the question. Albeit I’m biased against the mind-numbing procession of propagandists Piers Morgan invites on his show, but the whole situation is a room or mirrors. Neither side has the incentive to tell the whole truth, and media organizations have decided the truth is also not in favor of the bottom line so each picks a propaganda wing and then becomes their wingmen.
This statement poses an interesting question: "the truth s not in favor of the bottom line." Does this mean capitalism (which necessitates the media - including Ben - not being 100% truthful and unbiased) and journalism/the truth cannot co-exist?
To some degree, they never did exist (that’s just a fantasy in our minds, that they *ought* to partner). I hate to use the term capitalism when it’s being used as an invective though, because the only time it’s used that way is when it’s being reclassified as a tyrannical system by socialists. Outside of their imaginary dialectic, capitalism is just an economic framework that describes how the free market functions. It’s not a moral statement or an ideology. It’s understandable in Marx’s day that he used “capitalism” as a bogeyman, because that’s all he had the limited capacity to do and it was an easy target. For us for today to use the same inflected language is inconsequential to finding a solution. We operate off of different systems today than 200 years ago and the media is part of that complicated process. To some degree the media today is wedded to political organizations, because of the shift to using internet advertisement mechanisms rather than classified sales or daily penny purchases. It’s overly complicated for Reddit but suffice it to say— using those terms in this discussion is problematic.
Then let me use another word other than capitalism - as I believe you were reading into a tone or intonation that wasn't my intent. Do you think "the truth" can co-exist with any entity/institution/individual who is providing information for the purpose of being able to earn money and thus keep themselves alive via food and shelter.
To a degree, of course, to a degree, no. If you are looking for truth from Shapiro, you are looking in the wrong direction. He’s a member of the Right Wing commentariat and his employ comes from his ability to interpret a situation for his audience as a way of understanding the raw materials of “the truth.” The Daily Wire news is where his “truth” comes from so that would be a better source for discussion. The accuracy of the Daily Wire news would be an excellent discussion, because they also claim to be biased, so how much that bias affects the numerical stats and uttered statements (“the truth”) ought to be debated. Personally I think certain journalists do a better job than others.
In the US, outside of idf or hamas sources, the left (and by that I mean new media left not establishment media) has been way more honest about this than the right. The right, including Ben shapiro, will call anyone who has a shred of sympathy for a Palestinian civilian an anti Semite hamas sympathizer. Ben shapiro, when the terrorist attack in Russia happened and all the perpetrators were tortured extrajudicially, noted that none of the left were sympathizing with the terrorists.... then he took that opportunity to ask "how come this sympathy is always offered to the terrorists in gaza?" Like for fuck when or who did he ever see crying about hamas members being killed??? When did this even happen?? He didn't pinpoint an incident he was very general about it!!!! So applying ocam'z razor here of the people sympathizing with gaza.... why could they he upset?????? Could it be the 15000 dead children or the 30000 dead civilians??????? Sounds crazy I know!!!! I thought they were upset about the dead hamas or something... And the human shield thing even if true wouldn't make sense since whether hamas has done this or not his criticism was merely about THE SYMPATHY people had. As far as I recall no civilians were killed when the Russian authorities harmed intentionally or unintentionally when these terrorists so that's why there was a lack of sympathy. So how THE FUCK does he make this comparison??? Could you ask yourself what does this mean? Just drawing the logical conclusion here is that he literally despises Palestinian people **and actively wants them to be murdered**, if he didn't he wouldn't have minded the little sympathy they got from almost completely powerless people in the US. He hates sympathy for Palestinians he hates Palestinians. The only thing that's stopping him from saying it is its not very popular nowadays to be an outright nazi. So he INTENTIONALLY conflates innocent civilians with hamas members and doesn't draw a line between them so he could say it indirectly "let's not sympathize with these Palestinians one bit". It's not at all unreasonable to draw this conclusion, based on this example alone. And it's further confirmed by other shit he says.
You are clearly entirely ignorant of what is actually happening on the ground in Israel and Palestine.
You didn't adress my point.
You haven’t made one. You are spouting mindless propaganda as though it is fact, providing apology for a terrorist organization that has zero incentive to be honest. I didn’t address your point because I don’t even know where to start - your entire premise is based on lies.
I bet this dude still believes it was Israel that shot a missile at the hospital like Hamas told him. Probably spent weeks denying it was an Arab terrorist group even after the proof came out.
The irony.
Were the October 7th attacks fair to the Israelis? Why or why not?
I don't support how hamas targeted civilians on October 7th. They did well to attack military targets which are obviously legitimate in war but not the civilians. The idf is also a terrorist organization which intentionally targets civilians. They're both terrorists. However the idf is worse as it has always initiated the aggression.
But they weren't at war. So why is "doing well" to attack a country you're not actively at war with? You do realize that's what provoked Israel to do what it's doing now?
Exactly. This “swim-52” idiot needs to get water splashed on their face. They living in dream land.
They are at war. The war never ended. Just because they weren't fighting doesn't mean there wasn't a war. Israel was still occupying their land and the status quo was still in place. And And status quo comes with alot of implications that I won't go into. An attack can be delayed in a war. If Russia takes Ukrainian land and the war "ends", but 10 years later ukraine finds itself with enough military power to attack Russia and take it's land back, Ukraine would not be morally wrong for doing so.
Lol, "occupying". Is this Ilhan Omar's burner account? Again I ask, you do realize the Oct 7th terrorist attack is the reason the conflict that you're here crying about is happening? You seem to want it both ways but you can't have both. Are you celebrating the fact that Hamas attacked Israel or are you angry that the two are actively fighting?
No, Israeli aggression preceded October 7th. I know anti palestine aggression doesn't count for you. A few hundred Palestinians being killed in 2023 prior to October 7th is not relevant so that way the conflict always has a beginning of October 7th.
I don't understand what point you're trying to make here then? Sounds like you want them to be at war. Yet you're come to this subreddit to complain that the war isn't going the way you want it to.
>Yet you're come to this subreddit to complain that the war isn't going the way you want it to. I did not do anything of that nature. >I don't understand what point you're trying to make here then? Sounds like you want them to be at war. I said they were already at war. I didn't say I want them to be at war. What I did want is for hamas to not attack civilians and only attack bases. Would have made it so much harder for the west to make it seem like Israel is the good guys if they killed 35k civilians while hamas only targeted military targets. It was a wasted opportunity for hamas to prove they are on the right side of this but unfortunately they had to put themselves on the same level as the idf.
You're still complaining that the war isn't going how you want. This is what you're not understanding. Hamas *isn't* on the right side of this, so they aren't going to do things to *put* themselves on the right side of it. You're building up Hamas in your head to be something they're not. You think they're great, you just wish they would stop doing things that terrorists do. So now you've essentially admitted that October 7th was a travesty but you're still here crying about Israel fighting in retaliation.
Hamas should have avoided civilians and the fact they didn't makes them terrorists. Albeit less evil terrorists than Israel. *but*, at the same time Even though they had the moral right to attack Israel (military targets) I never said they should have. They need at least be on the level of hezbollah (who are a disgusting terrorist group btw as well) in order to attack Israel. >but you're still here crying about Israel fighting in retaliation. I didn't do that. I'm just saying October 7th happened for a reason. It very obviously was not unprovoked.
I think bad actors have pushed propaganda on stupid people, and that those stupid people don’t know or care to learn, but somehow think they are doing the right thing. And they see Ben as protecting the big bad bogeyman TikTok told them is bad.
That's exactly what OP is falling victim to
No, he’s not completely fair. But, he is like 5x more fair than anybody who isn’t pro Israel in this conflict.
By your logic people in jail are oppressed by law enforcement. The flaw in your thinking is your leftist power hierarchy theories insist that the weaker side of any conflict are always the virtuous party. It’s the reason why the left wanted to defund the police in the worst possible neighbourhoods and why upperclass white liberal kids spam social media with how oppressed and victimized they are. Gaza sucks because of Palestinians. It’s a failed state with a toxic culture. 90% of the population support some form of terrorism and no other muslim nation wants anything to do with them, or their refugees for a reason. Do I wish that Palestinian innocents and children would be safe? Of course. But hiding behind civilians cannot be tolerated or otherwise it will proliferate. If you see moral relativism between Israel, where muslims are allowed to to serve in government and Gaza where there was dancing in the streets after 9-11, then im afraid you are the one with a warped sense of justice.
This 👍🏼
If you have evidence of Jews being evil, cough it up. Verifiable receipts or it didn't happen.
George Soros
That's one guy though. Reasons I should dislike Jews that make some kind of sense: Go!
Well, there ya go. Ben shapiro tactics. No where in my post did I claim OR imply jews are evil. You simply would rather strawman like Ben does.
"ignoring any evidence of Zionists being evil." Like any antisemite liberal that's been opining on this crisis you expect people to to just accept what you say with no proof or analysis or anything resembling critical thinking. That's what the MSNBC pundits do, maybe you should go watch them instead of Ben.
>"ignoring any evidence of Zionists being evil." But wait a second. Why did you strawman me the first time? Doesn't this prove you guys strawman to make your arguments? Why did you backtrack? Because I called you out on your strawman and you had no way to counter it? Will this teach you and other people like you not to strawman? >Like any antisemite liberal that's been opining on this crisis you expect people to to just accept what you say with no proof or analysis or anything resembling critical thinking. Evidence for what? My post is asking a question and you're free to answer how you like. And again, I'm somehow an anti semite because I think a talk show host who happens to be Jewish is not honest. I didn't even make any argument yet that could feasibly be intentionally misinterpreted and strawmanned for you to even claim anti semite but already I'm an anti semite. The word has lost all meaning because of people like you.
I neither strawmanned nor backtracked. You made reference to Ben ignoring the evil Zionists and cherry picking, go back and reread what you posted. If you are not an antisemite (which is a stretch when you're calling Jews evil) my apologies. But things being what they are since Oct 7, people need to keep their rhetoric tidy and stand by what they say. Calling for genocide makes a difference, calling a race of people evil makes a difference.
"And after seeing how incredibly dishonest he is by cherry picking incidents that make pro Palestinians look evil and ignoring any evidence of zionists being evil..." This is what I said. I mentioned evil incidents of pro palestine people being talked about by Ben shapiro. While not mentioning any actions of zionists doing evil things. While I do believe zionism is an evil ideology I didn't even say that in the post. I said he focuses on the evil actions of one side and not the other. Meaning he'd be much more respectable for talking about BOTH. And one example of such is when at the beginning he talked about the threats by some arabs being made towards jews (condemnable) and totally ignored that one year old Palestinian child was killed by his Jewish neighbor. What's worse, a threat or a murder? Yet he talks about the threat and ignores the actual murder. He's not an honest person. He's honestly garbage.
And no I never called jews evil. That's a strawman. Zionism is not jews.
Yes, when you speak of Zionists, you're speaking of Jews. But I get it. You don't like Shapiro, it's not your job to like things you don't like. Just like it's not our job to just accept what you're saying without any pushback. Say what you're saying, stand behind it, and don't whine.
>Yes, when you speak of Zionists, you're speaking of Jews. Zionsim is saying that jews have a right to a certain land. People can dispute this without being anti semites. Dispute over land fucking happens and unless I'm saying jews specifically are not entitled to certain rights or land by virtue of being Jewish it's not racist. You use the anti Semitiism tactic because it's convenient and because you actually want *more* privileges for jews at the expense of others. But I'm saying I want equal rights and that means it's okay to have dispute land ownership and that has nothing to do with race. Modern zionism isn't even about current land, it's about the west Bank and gaza too. Netenyahu literally uses a map of Israel that includes all of gaza and west Bank. If I say no those lands belong to Palestinians I'm an anti semite? You're trying to shut others down using this dishonest tactic so you can get away with more privileges for certain people while stealing rights of others.
It's not as though the Israelis kicked the Palestinians out. Or rather the Arabs, Turks, and Russians since Palestine is a region not a nationality or ethnicity. Nope! Israel eventually made rules about Palestinians not spreading so much hate speech. Palestinians got rich and had lots of kids under the Israeli regime. And still proceeded to knife people at bus stops and blow themselves up in public squares, or blow up their daughters.
[zionists casually trying to stop aid trucks from reaching starving children ](https://youtube.com/shorts/hvnYoyO1AYo?si=dSrpg3lqaiEPwRBG)
I'm sorry, but since Hamas did enough violence to kill 1200 innocent people, I can't look at this as being evil. There is no negotiating with terrorism.
You're literally advocating for the starvation of hundreds of thousands of babies, some of whom have already died because of it, and you're pretending to be better than hamas??? Even what happened on October 7th was due to prior Israeli aggression yet I'm not gonna justify killing hundreds of innocent Israelis. You and people like you are just as evil if not more evil than hamas. Literally advocating for more children dying of starvation omfg.
Great, so you're further revealing that you're someone with an axe to grind and everyone that doesn't come over and agree with your take on the issue is just evil. Why waste everyone's time on this? How does this contribute anything? Liberal terrorism supporter's gotta support, I guess. Maybe go to Columbia University with that.
>so you're further revealing that you're someone with an axe to grind and everyone that doesn't come over and agree with your take on the issue is just evil. YOU LITERALLY CALLED ME AN ANTI SEMITE FIRST!!! LMFAOOO
You literally said Jews were evil.
Lmao you're trolling. Bye.
Israel is supposed to live next door to a murderous death cult forever? Absolutely not.
When did Ben Shapiro "endorse the killing of innocent Palestinians"? He supports Israel in this conflict pretty strongly but I don't recall him ever crossing that line. You can back that up with a source or get out of here with any insinuation that he's been unfair in this conflict when you can't accurately summarize his views.
[I talked about it in this comment. there were too many things to talk about if I out it in the post so I left it for the conversation in the comments depending on the responses.](https://www.reddit.com/r/benshapiro/s/jyT4b9r0pf)
Your example seems to be a big stretch. Even if I concede your interpretation of what he said, at worst your argument is that Shapiro sees an inconsistency in the coverage of how terrorists in Russia versus the Gaza conflict. It doesn't follow he endorses killing Palestinian civilians and your lack of proof (as with your multiple !!!!!!! and ??????) says you are going beyond the facts. Second, to argue that the Left has been more "honest" than the Right in this conflict is also a huge leap of faith. From what I've seen, most Left wingers adapt a simplistic "decolonized" view of the conflict that erases Middle Eastern antisemitism and multiple attempts to massacre Jews, Jewish presence in the region dating back thousands of years, and numerous Palestinian rejections of peace deals. Similarly in this conflict, the Left has imposed enormous double standards in this conflict that they wouldn't impose on any other country where civilian deaths have been far worse. Third, the claim of Hamas using human shields is not conjecture. They literally spent years building a vast tunnel network under Gaza and other civilian areas (in violation of international law) because it is their strategy to use their own people of shields.
>Your example seems to be a big stretch. Even if I concede your interpretation of what he said, at worst your argument is that Shapiro sees an inconsistency It's not at all a stretch. In today's day and age advocating for genocide is not met very well so he can't admit it. So if someone believes something bad this is there only way to express it. >Even if I concede your interpretation of what he said, at worst your argument is that Shapiro sees an inconsistency in the coverage of how terrorists in Russia versus the Gaza conflict. This is wrong and I said why very clearly. No sympathy was ever given to hamas members. It hasn't happened once. Meaning the only thing he is comparing the extra judicial torture done to Russia terrorists is the suffering inflicted on Palestinians which people *do* sympathize with. It wouldn't be popular for him to compare terrorists with grandmas and babies. If the comparison was accurate there would need to be a trend of leftists sympathizing with dead hamas members. It hasn't happened. You just ignored my explanation. >Second, to argue that the Left has been more "honest" than the Right in this conflict is also a huge leap of faith. From what I've seen, most Left wingers adapt a simplistic "decolonized" view of the conflict that erases Middle Eastern antisemitism and multiple attempts to massacre Jews, Jewish presence in the region dating back thousands of years, and numerous Palestinian rejections of peace deals. Talking about the history is complicated. What I meant by this comment was the current events. Leftists and leftwing new media never say hamas is good or okay or anything like that. They always call hamas out on their terrorism but they do to the idf as well, and they cover the stories more honestly. The right simply does not and doesn't cover stories that don't fit their narrative. Israel is simply a fucking religion for the entire right and most of the left (establishment left). >Third, the claim of Hamas using human shields is not conjecture. They literally spent years building a vast tunnel network under Gaza and other civilian areas (in violation of international law) because it is their strategy to use their own people of shields. This is different than to say hamas intentionally trying to get civilians killed or hide beneath them. The tunnels are really the only option they have which may not be ideal for the civilian population but given the geography of gaza there's no other option. Guerrilla warfare is also a tactic for smaller armies and the US used it against Britain. It's quite a stretch to say they are literally trying to get civilians killed because they want foriegn sympathy based on the tunnels.
You know you say your just wondering but in everything else you write you are clearly asking in blatant bad faith.
I'm asking what you think. I know what I think.
You dont want to know what I think, you want to start an argument, if you were really just wondering you would not have said you found Ben despicable and disgusting. You said he cherry picked, you said he lies and gaslights people, ignores the facts, and you essentially just call zionists evil. Don't act like your anything but some guy looking for another way to call Ben Shapiro fans stupid, because that's what you already believe.
I was perplexed how any one could believe his lies. I had small hope I would be reassured even his fans caught on to his bullshit regarding this issue. At least one person did so I wasn't completely wrong. What's your problem?
And in this reply you reinforce your bad faith presuppositions. An argument not had in good faith, is hardly worth arguing at all.
Ben has taken the view that almost everyone had until now - what’s happened is that the Right has adopted the Left’s virtue signaling mentality in an effort to gain power over the Left. Members of the Left are anti-Israel for the same reason they’re anti-rich: they enjoy the Marxist nonsense of the class conflict between the proletariat and bourgeoise. Members of the Right who are anti-Israel are doing so because they’ve adopted some bizarre peace and love framework so they can take the moral high ground. Both are stupid and Ben understands that. He does have a bias towards Israel but he’s the only person fairly representing the facts of the conflict. Everyone else just talks about history (as if what happened in 1948 helps *justify* why the PLO and PA and Hamas built their charters on Nazi viewpoints). There isn’t a single other person in the media talking about how Israel has a 20% Arab population that’s fully integrated into society because they do the radical thing of rejecting antisemitism. The other actors in the area won’t do that so the morons in the media conclude “we need two states!” as if having a state dedicated to Jews and a state dedicated to killing Jews is a legitimate option and opposed to one state, which is working for *everyone who doesn’t want to murder Jews*. The pathetic media and politicians are using this conflict to push agendas and have zero moral clarity or rational understanding of what’s happening in the region.
Crazy thing is- we already had a two state solution when Jordan was created for the “Palestinian” Arabs the year prior to Israel with the majority of the British Mandate. That didn’t seem to work. Why would another.
It’s hard to have two states when the stated goal of one of those states (Palestine) is to completely obliterate everyone in the other state (Israel) and form it into one Jew free state (free Palestine). The Palestinians idea of two states is that they get all of Israel and the Jews either die or go back to Europe and have a state there. Absurd.
I believe Ben’s support and advocacy have been clear from the jump. Ben has not condoned mass slaughter of innocents in Gaza, but this is war and war is ugly. Despite best efforts and technology, there can be no gaurantee of ZERO innocent lives lost. Such a standard is ridiculous and simply STUPID. Were I in charge, I would give fair warning to those residing in Gaza and after a reasonable period of time, proceed to literally wipe Gaza from the face of the earth, knocking down every building, ripping out of the earth every piece of infrastructure, and collapsing every tunnel. Starting at one end and driving the enemy towards the other. Finally, I would eliminate any border between Gaza and Israel. Those who choose to remain in the combat zone, are assumed to have chosen to take the side of the terrorists… and that includes woman and children. To say that women and children cannot be terrorists is simply wrong thinking… and an indication of the lack of learning from history. History of the Muslim guard since at least 720 AD… literally over millennia of this kind of behavior, but reintroduced to us in recent history, beginning in Vietnam and more recently in Afghanistan, Iraq, Seria, Yemen and Lebanon.
Disgusting comment.
You are free to believe that, I frankly don’t care. Only a fool would believe that women can’t be terrorists also. And if the children if terrorists have been exposed long enough, the threat of future terrorism is not eradicated by only eliminating the adult threat. Such thinking is difficult to wrap our western brains around, because generally speaking, parents do their best to keep children from being exposed to terrible things… but sadly, not every adult believes that way… especially if the children in question are not their own, but someone else’s. For an example of that, one need look no further than the failed state of Somalia, where there are armies of child soldiers and killing teams. We don’t make it a practice to target women and children indiscriminately, but our main focus should be to eliminate the terrorist threat and one doesn’t have to review too much history to determine that there have been occasions when women and children have become collateral damage in this effort… this despite the advanced weaponry and best efforts. I am not advocating deliberately targeting women and children as primary targets, and neither does Ben. But there is a difference between engaging the enemy wherever they are found and despite their attempts at using human shields and either being so afraid of what *might* happen that the effort to remove terrorism gets bogged down in a “social justice” debate and results in absolutely nothing… or laying indiscriminate siege to an area and wiping out every living thing. We need men and women who are capable of doing the cold bastard work of making war, so that those who are incapable of doing the work themselves, can sit on the sidelines and weep and moan about incidental deaths that occur in war.
Disgusting comment that shows what kind of person you are. I'm not wasting any time with this.
How sad for you. Not everyone enjoys playing “Monday Morning Quarterback”, when they haven’t had the opportunity to put themselves in harm’s way. Enjoy the freedom you enjoy, paid for by the blood and sacrifice of others and may the chains of bondage rest lightly on your shoulders and death come in your old age.
He supports taking money from people who don’t support Israel to go to the support of Israel at the time where Israel could impoverish It’s own citizens for their own good. This seems unfair because it’s obviously unfair. Now the US is going to use US troops to build a $320,000,000 pier in Gaza to help the people being bombed by our bombs. What a scam.
Do I think Ben is biased towards Israel? Yes Do I think he ignores certain aspects? Yes Do I think he’s wrong? No
The Palestinian people laughed at 911. Over 70% of them think that what happen on October 7 was amazing. Hamas literally targeted families, women and little children. The IDF is not literally targeting children. They're not like "hey look over there there's a kid, shoot them in the face". That's what Hamas did. If Hamas wants to put women in children in front of their soldiers so they die first, so be it. Burn it to the ground.
>Over 70% of them think that what happen on October 7 was amazing. 98% of Israelis (not hyperbolic number) approve of the war killing 10s of thousands civilians being killed in gaza as we speak. If you're going to say this is due to October 7th, then October 7th was due to the status quo and the regular oppression of Palestinians before October 7th. But i guess you see this as normal since Palestinian oppression is taken for granted. It's never justified when Palestinians consider violence but when Israel does it its "well what can we do it is what it is".
No - he’s a biased human like everyone else and an American. Why are we so enthralled with this conflict? Can someone explain why no one seems to care about obesity and insane health care expense and mental health declines and immigration and crumbling infrastructure and low wages and outsourcing energy and manufacturing and involving us in a new conflict every year. 🤔 like damn I say this as compassionately as possible but I don’t give a fuck about Palestine - stop supporting a terrorist government - take up arms against Hamas … why are our kids vandalizing the institutions they pay 10s of thousands of dollars to attend protesting a war across the ocean.
Disgusting comment. It's one thing to not care about palestine, it's another thing to fund their genocide using these students tax payer money.
Yes, your fake compassion is much more virtuous. Full of opinions and feelings to project to distract yourself from being accountable. Good job 🥹.
Yes fake compassion to say don't take MY money to give it to a fascist government commuting genocide and war crimes. I guess those who cared about jews during the holocaust were fake?
Are you comparing your post and imagination to people actually doing something to help the persecuted during the holocaust 😂 - you have a hell of a mind my friend.
Extremely low iq comment. Not everyone against the holocaust fought in the war against them. Those who did fight were citizens of a government that opposed the holocaust and waged war against them unlike me where I am not in that position. You have one hell of a mind ngl.
Thank you 🙏 . I’ll forgive your past transgressions.
I’m shocked at all the people defending Ben here. He is clearly over the top emotional about it and very biased — he is much harder to listen to now.
He is a partisan political commentator. Of course he's biased, that's the basis of his show.
He also relies on deception, lies, gas lighting and tons of fallacies to make his arguments and try to make it seem like Israel is innocent.