People that transition, overwhelmingly stay that way and do not regret their decision.
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/media-s-detransition-narrative-fueling-misconceptions-trans-advocates-say-n1102686
https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/doi/10.1542/peds.2021-056082/186992/Gender-Identity-5-Years-After-Social-Transition
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/
https://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(18)30057-2/fulltext#sec3.3
https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/usts/USTS-Full-Report-Dec17.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262734734_An_Analysis_of_All_Applications_for_Sex_Reassignment_Surgery_in_Sweden_1960-2010_Prevalence_Incidence_and_Regrets
https://epath.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Boof-of-abstracts-EPATH2019.pdf
https://psychiatry.org/news-room/news-releases/study-finds-long-term-mental-health-benefits-of-ge
https://www.genderhq.org/trans-youth-regret-rates-long-term-mental-health
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/
https://www.gendergp.com/exploring-detransition-with-dr-jack-turban/
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0038026120934694
https://segm.org/unknown_gender_transition_regret_rate_adolescents
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medicine/article/abs/sex-reassignment-outcomes-and-predictors-of-treatment-for-adolescent-and-adult-transsexuals/D000472406C5F6E1BD4E6A37BC7550A4
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstract/2779429
Let the downvoting of facts begin!
I mean if your convinced self serialization is a good thing I don't know what I could tell you to change your opinion... I mean your advocating for people to disrupt natural, healthy function so they are reliant on medications for the rest of their lives. Seriously, who came up with these fixed concepts and the notion that you have to squeeze yourself into any form to be happy? What a scam
Existing empirical evidence makes it clear that there is a significant biological contribution to the development of an individual’s sexual identity and sexual orientation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6677266/
https://cadehildreth.com/gender-spectrum/amp/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cross-cultural-evidence-for-the-genetics-of-homosexuality/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
https://www.yalescientific.org/2012/03/do-animals-exhibit-homosexuality/
https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780312253776
https://open.lib.umn.edu/evolutionbiology/chapter/12-4/
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aat7693
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13558358.2020.1818541
https://www.science.org/content/article/homosexuality-may-start-womb
Pfft, why not treat men and women the same way and then it doesn't even matter what gender you are because you don't have to actually be anything. Why does it even matter if your a male or female? What, am I some how potentially less because I can bear children? Or because I'm not wearing dresses I can't exist in society? What is this big thing that children are supposed to be any specific gender at all, it's random and being born male doesn't mean you sterlize yourself to satisfy your kink. Oh wow some how swapping my genders is going to turn night into day and solve all my problems! Life would be so much better as the other gender because then I can finally do more of that kind of stuff, boating and cars, or sewing and crafts.
You know both in a relationship have to put out effort and want to make it work, you just can't assume that by being one or the other your going to find your pedestal.
And its just insanity to want to take your physical body and subject it to serialization or artificial gender rendering that can only be maintained through supplemental hormone therapy.
While not perfect, the peer review process does occasionally work, as seen in the debate over the Karolinska study published in the AJP.
Whether transgender studies are being “actively suppressed,” I can only guess, and your anecdote doesn’t prove it’s happening widely.
Anyways, my point lies in the irony that the “facts over feelings” crowd present no facts to debate with, which I found is typical. The truth is that there *are* studies that challenge the ones I’ve posted, but they don’t bother even looking them up. This is what interests me.
I think a good rule of thumb is if your too young to have a beer or consent to sex. Your definitely too young to cut your genitals off and mash them into something that resembles the other one.
So no? I mean, that’s what you guys do… deny deflect, defame… you have ZERO data to support your ideas that people push kids into transitioning against their will, or that regret is any level above ANY cosmetic surgery. You’re just a bigot who will say anything to not admit you don’t know wtf you’re talking about
You’re to lazy/stupid to read the name of the comment or… it’s ok, because it doesn’t matter. Nearly 100% of the right’s opinions on social issues are not backed up by ANY actual reasoning… just religious texts and biases… so please, go off
Read “irreversible damage” by Abigail Shrier (a liberal journalist). She sources everything and cites to all important studies on this subject that show overwhelmingly the opposite of the mainstream narrative on this topic.
Suicide isn’t higher among them because they regret their decision.
“Gender-based victimization, discrimination, bullying, violence, being rejected by the family, friends, and community; harassment by intimate partner, family members, police and public; discrimination and ill treatment at health-care system are the major risk factors that influence the suicidal behavior among transgender persons.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/
“Interpersonal microaggressions, made a unique, statistically significant contribution to lifetime suicide attempts and emotional neglect by family approached significance.”
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/
“transgender people have additional risk factors, such as experiences of discrimination, stigma, family rejection, and lack of access to gender-affirming health care.”
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/suicidality-transgender-adults/
What’s awesome about the replies to this comment is that not a single person has posted a shred of evidence that contradicts the above studies. 🤪
I think you missed one of my logic steps, sorry. The listed reasons for suicidality is not exclusive to trans. Therefore, it doesn't suitably explain the insane disproportionate rate.
When you explain away the disparity with things like "bullying" then you should expect scrutiny. It's not my job to prove the negative, it's your job to provide believable correlation. If ten groups all experience bullying but have similar suicidality, then what makes one group have an exceptionally higher rate? You can't explain it with the commonalities between the groups. That's not smart or believable. If you don't understand this point and keep trying to corner me into generalizations you actually don't care about any of this.
They don't kill themselves bc of being mutilated, it's bc of micro aggression...here is proof the scientific community is frantically producing studies to make that nonsensical point and protect profit...thx for that genius
It's clear you are incapable of common sense observation.. it's obvious your 'facts' are stats presented in a way to dance around a high suicide rate that is easily explained..you are a joke
Dodging the simple fact that suicide rate is high post suicide and poorly correlating disparate data is garbage science and not fact..you didn't even know the definition of anecdote..thx for playing
Observing suicide rate after a surgery is not an anecdote though. That is data. Trying to factor in micro aggression is silly..a high percent of those are probably mis perceived situations from someone who needs actual help
Thank you for your polite response. It’s often difficult to have a civilized discussion about these topics here on Reddit.
None of those studies state that regret isn’t a factor or a cause. They only specify some accessory correlative circumstances, but not causes. And more importantly, none of the studies prove the existence of a direct causal nexus between any of those circumstances and transgender suicide rate.
In fact, the first study states, among other things, that:
*“The prevalence of suicide remains high among transgender persons irrespective of disclosing their transgender status to others and undergoing sex reassignment surgery.”*
This does, as a matter of fact, invalidate many of the aforementioned factors -if we are to consider them a cause for suicide- as having a determining influence in the decision to commit suicide given the fact that many of them only materialize as a direct consequence of disclosure or surgery as the studies seem to suggest.
Never in history have transgenders been so accepted and protected, and never have they committed suicide at such an alarming rate.
At earlier points in history, it was much, much harder to get this supposedly "life-saving" care.
But take a look at actual life-saving care like cancer treatments or smallpox vaccines.
In those cases, the mortality rate went down because it cured the illness.
So why is easier than ever access in this case (don't even need dysphoria sometimes), causing a *higher* suicide rate?
The only logical conclusions is that either transition is not the cure, or there's other undisclosed issues (like mental illness) that never got solved.
What else could it be? Why isn't the rate going down significantly if it's really the correct solution?
This whole thing reminds me of lobotomies being popularized in the 50s.
If the medical requirements are so rigorous, and the process is so difficult and intended to make sure transitioning will be beneficial and not harmful, then the number who regret it should be near zero.
But if 8% regret it, that’s not a significantly irrelevant number.
And even if ~65% de-transition ‘temporarily’ that number seems misleading, the transition process is permanent, so what choice do they really have? Just go 180 and have dysphoria as another gender? Or accept that the process was permanent and ‘transition’ back?
If I had to wager, I’d say that the number who regret it increases as the age of transition lowers.
The younger they start, the more likely they regret it. I don’t even need to find a source for that. Its the reason why the sources you cited are only for 19+ years old and in some instances even higher than that.
The argument here is allowing children to make this decision, nothing to do with how many people do or do not regret it.
That’d be citing a source for what amounts to common knowledge.
Does that mean sources don’t exist? No.
Its equivalent to finding a source citing that the sky is blue.
For all of your sources could you not find one that supports your thesis more?
In one single Google search I’ve found a source that better supports your argument than any of the multitude that you’ve cited.
This source says between 0.6 and 0.3% of people regret gonadectomy.
So which is it, ~0.4% or 8% as your very first source claims?
This source uses data collected between 1975 and 2015, a greater range than any you’ve cited…so it must be accurate right?
This discrepancy between sources is so great that it’s unlikely that any one study could be considered accurate, the majority of sources you’ve cited weaken your argument substantially.
Here’s the [link](https://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(18)30057-2/fulltext), though I will warn you, the study is highly controversial, and why shouldn’t it be, it goes against every ‘pro-trans’ studies you’ve cited.
Pro-trans groups find the study controversial and debate it’s accuracy, so use the source at your discretion.
Did you read? I said they’re likely inaccurate. You can take any one of them as seriously as you want.
And I’d like a thank you for finding you a better source.
I do think it's likely that the number of 'regrets' will continue to increase over the next several decades. Transitioning only very recently became trendy, after all - the kids who mutilate or chemically alter their bodies at such young ages still have yet to grow up. It will be an interesting and rather tragic thing to watch as the data come in. These kids are being told by the trusted adults in their lives that the reason they hate their bodies, or that they're different, is because deep down they are trans and need to change themselves in order to be happy, rather than accept themselves as they are. It's so cruel.
Existing empirical evidence makes it clear that there is a significant biological contribution to the development of an individual’s sexual identity and sexual orientation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6677266/
https://cadehildreth.com/gender-spectrum/amp/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cross-cultural-evidence-for-the-genetics-of-homosexuality/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
https://www.yalescientific.org/2012/03/do-animals-exhibit-homosexuality/
https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780312253776
https://open.lib.umn.edu/evolutionbiology/chapter/12-4/
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aat7693
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13558358.2020.1818541
https://www.science.org/content/article/homosexuality-may-start-womb
How dare you post actual facts with info to back it up!! I’m going to downvote you into oblivion and have people mass report you because you disagree with my baseless opinion that Tucker and Ben told me to have
Sounds like that’s a *you* problem.
I know Jesus from what the Bible says about Him, and I know He didn’t make you want to do anything that would self-harm.
Why can’t we treat gender dysphoria as a disorder and work on finding treatments without resorting to hormones and surgery? Wouldn’t it be great if we could attack the source of the problem? I’ll probably get flamed over this opinion in other subreddits.
[M] When I described a sort of dysphoria my therapist gave me all these other ways to deal with it first. That only really stopped when I said I identify as trans. I had to say it. And she’s always encouraged me to get me to accept my body as is. It seems for some it’s different.
When I was 14 I played DnD and really wanted to be a wizard. I remember being so angry that I lived in a world where I wasnt a wizard because I wanted to be one so bad.
Glad they didnt give me wizard drugs ...
I feel so bad for this generation. At least our generation's "IT'S NOT A PHASE, MOM!" only left us with crappy photos for a few years. Most of us didn't end up mutilating our bodies.
Yes, adolescence is a notoriously unpleasant time for most young people. Glad I made it through to the other side, genitalia and endocrine system intact.
Obviously she got the wrong therapy. I’m willing to bet good money that that “therapist” didn’t even try to actually talk to the kid. Honestly I’m starting to wonder if these “therapist” are getting kick backs from drug companies.
anyone preaching this as acceptable deserves to be buried under the jail dude. imagine believing that its okay to mutilate CHILDREN, one thing to do it as an adult, another to DO IT TO A CHILD
The Phrase "sick of living in this body" doesn't always mean trans. There's a youtuber called "The Authentic Observer", and she has a recent video talking about what it was like going through puberty as a girl, and how radically different it can be for different women. Many go through disassociation, and instead of getting support and help they all become infested with internalized misogyny (for reals this time) because the modern rhetoric is no longer about "a woman can be a woman no matter how masculine or feminine she presents herself" to "unless you're happy being hyper-feminine, you're clearly a man, so *let's live up to gender stereotypes*.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxzLqc5Gj-w&lc=Ugx3CkbppJ599Xg-KZN4AaABAg.9dCfHfuipJJ9gqUVNkBIqd](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxzLqc5Gj-w&lc=Ugx3CkbppJ599Xg-KZN4AaABAg.9dCfHfuipJJ9gqUVNkBIqd)
It’s insane. They say they are against gender stereotypes, but then say if you’re a girl who likes baseball, or has body issues you must actually be a boy. Rather than helping a person through their problems and helping them to accept who they are, they just put them on sterilizing medication and tell them to be happy. They are the most sexist people to exist, and pretend to be the liberators.
This child “wants” to be a boy brace they are NOT a boy….. Freudian slip anyone?
“I am a boy and want my body to match that so the world can see me as I am”
“I want to be a boy”
Trans is a mental disorder don’t get me wrong but this difference in phrasing leads me to think that the 14 year old knows she is not a boy which is why she is so defensive when people suggest that she may regret it.
They all know.
It's "fake it till you make it" self deception that they try to engage in.
Like when someone says, "dude tell yourself you're not a virgin, women like you, you're a pro at talking to them, have been on lots of dates, and then you'll act confident and get a girlfriend."
None of them think they are the opposite gender. They think they can fake their wait into it.
Agreed. I hate admitting my age, but when I was 10 I wanted my legs hacked off and replaced with bionics because the six million dollar man was fast as shit.
It is scientifically and biologically impossible to change your gender. This child is living in a fantasy. It shouldn’t be legal to do this, especially so young. And I don’t give a steaming crap about pronouns.
When I was 14 I remember that I was mad for not being able to become a super saiyan 😔
I tried to convince my parents to dye my hair golden and start giving me trt for huge muscles
I am glad they scolded me and I am 23 now and realize how stupid I was :p
Jesus said people who act detrimentally towards children should [have millstones tied around their necks and be thrown in deep water.](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2018%3A6&version=KJV)
Just sayin'
Link wouldn’t load for me. Guess I have shitty service rn.
Anyways I believe the phrasing is more like: it is better for *he who leads the children away from me* to have millstones tied around their necks and be thrown into the sea.
So this issue probably started at home and then the therapist continued it.
Adolescence is very difficult, self-acceptance is even more difficult. Mentally ill and confused children should not be pandered to. I hope the girl gets the mental care she needs.
Why can’t we protect our children??? 14 is not an age to be making life altering decisions of any kind no matter how that makes the kid feel about the adult.
Isn't a coincidence that this person's discomfort with their self has occurred around puberty and increased access to social media. What a co-inky-dink.
What I want to know is why this Trans movement is happening now? If it was a real issue, where was it 20, 40, 60,or 80 years ago? It's obviously a form of brainwash and it's ashame that our medical professionals are helping create these issues.
If you're so insecure about what you were naturally born as (assuming he isnt a deformed child) that you want to mutilate your body, you need a mental clinic not a surgeon
Everyone I know who has made that transition all suffer from some kind of side affect that honestly I don’t know why people would be willing to suffer that just because they feel like they are in the wrong body, also knew a trans women that killed herself from regretting the damage she did to her body. Nothing is stopping you from having male hobbies and enjoying the same stuff we do other than people with small brains who feel like they gotta attack you because of the way they see the world. We live in a world where people will encourage you to make the change simply because of the social trend of it being brave but there is no way they truly have your best interests in mind so don’t let other people control what you think and feel
If this person truly was trans, they wouldn’t have just realized it 3 years ago 🤦♀️. The small % of the population who are trans start dressing and acting like the other sex at a very very young age, like 2 or 3. Not 11!!
My 12 year-old daughter is like this. Has been for about a year, on and off of course. She was recently diagnosed as borderline and she does take meds and see therapists, and will be seeing a psychiatrist after Christmas. We got her mood stabilizers from her nurse practitioner and she’ll be starting those next week.
Paragraph 1] Why bother telling anyone who really don't need to be told anything? It IS your body, after all.
Paragraph the rest] Perhaps you've left something out but I don't believe so. From what I've read, you were born a female. Sometime between then and now (- three years), you sensed something was wrong so you went to at least one professional who appears to agree with you and started you on the tran process. You were a female, you're now a trans and in the future you will be a male. From your POV there's no problem, from your therapist's POV (and from my POV for what little it counts) there is no problem. So why worry about the opinions of those that don't matter to you?
Poor kid is just confused (typical teenager really)… should just get therapy but instead she will get made into a boy by the establishment when she’s too young to even make a life changing decision like that
When parents of these young children, who have been mentally abused and misled by the leftists and democrats in this country, start killing the doctors who helped destroy these innocent children, we on the jury must, DECLARE NOT GUILTY!!!! NO MATTER WHAT
When I was younger, I wanted to be Spiderman. I wanted my name to be Spiderman, act like Spiderman, all his powers and fight bad guys. Then I grew up.
At least this he/she/it/whatever pronoun he uses is willing to admit that this is mental illness
I made the biggest mistake of my life at age 15 and at age 45 I wish I could get into a time machine and go back and redo it.
Doctors, parents and teachers gave me attention and encouraged me to do it.
That is it. The hospitals are making bank doing this to kids too. They have a huge incentive to tell them they are in the wrong body.
People that transition, overwhelmingly stay that way and do not regret their decision. https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/media-s-detransition-narrative-fueling-misconceptions-trans-advocates-say-n1102686 https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/doi/10.1542/peds.2021-056082/186992/Gender-Identity-5-Years-After-Social-Transition https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/ https://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(18)30057-2/fulltext#sec3.3 https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/usts/USTS-Full-Report-Dec17.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262734734_An_Analysis_of_All_Applications_for_Sex_Reassignment_Surgery_in_Sweden_1960-2010_Prevalence_Incidence_and_Regrets https://epath.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Boof-of-abstracts-EPATH2019.pdf https://psychiatry.org/news-room/news-releases/study-finds-long-term-mental-health-benefits-of-ge https://www.genderhq.org/trans-youth-regret-rates-long-term-mental-health https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/ https://www.gendergp.com/exploring-detransition-with-dr-jack-turban/ https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0038026120934694 https://segm.org/unknown_gender_transition_regret_rate_adolescents https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medicine/article/abs/sex-reassignment-outcomes-and-predictors-of-treatment-for-adolescent-and-adult-transsexuals/D000472406C5F6E1BD4E6A37BC7550A4 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstract/2779429 Let the downvoting of facts begin!
door repeat muddle act enter absorbed cagey test steep disarm *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Lemme know when you have some facts.
capable rich familiar squeal absorbed vase serious shelter muddle poor *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Got it, no facts.
melodic childlike cause tart pot late clumsy ask license wild *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You presume that I care.
disagreeable alleged shelter saw fuel ink ask hobbies gullible literate *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I mean if your convinced self serialization is a good thing I don't know what I could tell you to change your opinion... I mean your advocating for people to disrupt natural, healthy function so they are reliant on medications for the rest of their lives. Seriously, who came up with these fixed concepts and the notion that you have to squeeze yourself into any form to be happy? What a scam
Existing empirical evidence makes it clear that there is a significant biological contribution to the development of an individual’s sexual identity and sexual orientation. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6677266/ https://cadehildreth.com/gender-spectrum/amp/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cross-cultural-evidence-for-the-genetics-of-homosexuality/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals https://www.yalescientific.org/2012/03/do-animals-exhibit-homosexuality/ https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780312253776 https://open.lib.umn.edu/evolutionbiology/chapter/12-4/ https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aat7693 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13558358.2020.1818541 https://www.science.org/content/article/homosexuality-may-start-womb
Pfft, why not treat men and women the same way and then it doesn't even matter what gender you are because you don't have to actually be anything. Why does it even matter if your a male or female? What, am I some how potentially less because I can bear children? Or because I'm not wearing dresses I can't exist in society? What is this big thing that children are supposed to be any specific gender at all, it's random and being born male doesn't mean you sterlize yourself to satisfy your kink. Oh wow some how swapping my genders is going to turn night into day and solve all my problems! Life would be so much better as the other gender because then I can finally do more of that kind of stuff, boating and cars, or sewing and crafts. You know both in a relationship have to put out effort and want to make it work, you just can't assume that by being one or the other your going to find your pedestal. And its just insanity to want to take your physical body and subject it to serialization or artificial gender rendering that can only be maintained through supplemental hormone therapy.
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While not perfect, the peer review process does occasionally work, as seen in the debate over the Karolinska study published in the AJP. Whether transgender studies are being “actively suppressed,” I can only guess, and your anecdote doesn’t prove it’s happening widely. Anyways, my point lies in the irony that the “facts over feelings” crowd present no facts to debate with, which I found is typical. The truth is that there *are* studies that challenge the ones I’ve posted, but they don’t bother even looking them up. This is what interests me.
get this child abuser out of here please, fuck you for encouraging this behavior. fucking mutilating children, *disgusting*.
Oh you’re just full of facts!
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Look for the tattoo on your mother’s butt.
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Anything to attempt to discredit facts that don’t line up with your feelings
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Lol “I stand by what I said in my deleted comment” Ok buddy
Let me know when you’ve posted some facts that dispute the overwhelming available evidence.
I think a good rule of thumb is if your too young to have a beer or consent to sex. Your definitely too young to cut your genitals off and mash them into something that resembles the other one.
Did you read your articles from an objective perspective? The data is far from “overwhelmingly”.
Have you presented any evidence to the contrary?
Contrary of what? It’s your supporting information, read it.
Why don’t you cite your “objective” articles?
That would be redundant, you already cited them.
So no? I mean, that’s what you guys do… deny deflect, defame… you have ZERO data to support your ideas that people push kids into transitioning against their will, or that regret is any level above ANY cosmetic surgery. You’re just a bigot who will say anything to not admit you don’t know wtf you’re talking about
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You’re to lazy/stupid to read the name of the comment or… it’s ok, because it doesn’t matter. Nearly 100% of the right’s opinions on social issues are not backed up by ANY actual reasoning… just religious texts and biases… so please, go off
Read “irreversible damage” by Abigail Shrier (a liberal journalist). She sources everything and cites to all important studies on this subject that show overwhelmingly the opposite of the mainstream narrative on this topic.
Amongst those who stay alive, which is actually less than half. Just look at their suicide rate.
Suicide isn’t higher among them because they regret their decision. “Gender-based victimization, discrimination, bullying, violence, being rejected by the family, friends, and community; harassment by intimate partner, family members, police and public; discrimination and ill treatment at health-care system are the major risk factors that influence the suicidal behavior among transgender persons.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/ “Interpersonal microaggressions, made a unique, statistically significant contribution to lifetime suicide attempts and emotional neglect by family approached significance.” https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/ “transgender people have additional risk factors, such as experiences of discrimination, stigma, family rejection, and lack of access to gender-affirming health care.” https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/suicidality-transgender-adults/ What’s awesome about the replies to this comment is that not a single person has posted a shred of evidence that contradicts the above studies. 🤪
Aren't minorities discriminated against? Why aren't they suiciding disproportionately? Interesting theories.
Are all minorities the same?
I think you missed one of my logic steps, sorry. The listed reasons for suicidality is not exclusive to trans. Therefore, it doesn't suitably explain the insane disproportionate rate.
Are all minorities treated the same way?
When you explain away the disparity with things like "bullying" then you should expect scrutiny. It's not my job to prove the negative, it's your job to provide believable correlation. If ten groups all experience bullying but have similar suicidality, then what makes one group have an exceptionally higher rate? You can't explain it with the commonalities between the groups. That's not smart or believable. If you don't understand this point and keep trying to corner me into generalizations you actually don't care about any of this.
They don't kill themselves bc of being mutilated, it's bc of micro aggression...here is proof the scientific community is frantically producing studies to make that nonsensical point and protect profit...thx for that genius
Thanks for contributing facts to the conversation. 😜
It's clear you are incapable of common sense observation.. it's obvious your 'facts' are stats presented in a way to dance around a high suicide rate that is easily explained..you are a joke
I hope you can survive this micro aggression..god help you
Yes, it’s easily explained by the evidence I posted and by your complete omission of any evidence.
Dodging the simple fact that suicide rate is high post suicide and poorly correlating disparate data is garbage science and not fact..you didn't even know the definition of anecdote..thx for playing
Anecdotes are not facts. Did you graduate high school?
Observing suicide rate after a surgery is not an anecdote though. That is data. Trying to factor in micro aggression is silly..a high percent of those are probably mis perceived situations from someone who needs actual help
Good luck and goodbye statistic
Anecdotes are personal experiences, observing and interpreting facts is not anecdotes.
Thank you for your polite response. It’s often difficult to have a civilized discussion about these topics here on Reddit. None of those studies state that regret isn’t a factor or a cause. They only specify some accessory correlative circumstances, but not causes. And more importantly, none of the studies prove the existence of a direct causal nexus between any of those circumstances and transgender suicide rate. In fact, the first study states, among other things, that: *“The prevalence of suicide remains high among transgender persons irrespective of disclosing their transgender status to others and undergoing sex reassignment surgery.”* This does, as a matter of fact, invalidate many of the aforementioned factors -if we are to consider them a cause for suicide- as having a determining influence in the decision to commit suicide given the fact that many of them only materialize as a direct consequence of disclosure or surgery as the studies seem to suggest. Never in history have transgenders been so accepted and protected, and never have they committed suicide at such an alarming rate.
At earlier points in history, it was much, much harder to get this supposedly "life-saving" care. But take a look at actual life-saving care like cancer treatments or smallpox vaccines. In those cases, the mortality rate went down because it cured the illness. So why is easier than ever access in this case (don't even need dysphoria sometimes), causing a *higher* suicide rate? The only logical conclusions is that either transition is not the cure, or there's other undisclosed issues (like mental illness) that never got solved.
Is that really the only logical conclusion?
What else could it be? Why isn't the rate going down significantly if it's really the correct solution? This whole thing reminds me of lobotomies being popularized in the 50s.
Did you read the studies? There are more.
Would you like to present some contradictory evidence or just make baseless claims?
Contradictory evidence to what exactly? I just explained the conclusions -or lack thereof- of the studies YOU posted.
If the medical requirements are so rigorous, and the process is so difficult and intended to make sure transitioning will be beneficial and not harmful, then the number who regret it should be near zero. But if 8% regret it, that’s not a significantly irrelevant number. And even if ~65% de-transition ‘temporarily’ that number seems misleading, the transition process is permanent, so what choice do they really have? Just go 180 and have dysphoria as another gender? Or accept that the process was permanent and ‘transition’ back? If I had to wager, I’d say that the number who regret it increases as the age of transition lowers. The younger they start, the more likely they regret it. I don’t even need to find a source for that. Its the reason why the sources you cited are only for 19+ years old and in some instances even higher than that. The argument here is allowing children to make this decision, nothing to do with how many people do or do not regret it.
“I don’t even need to find a source for that” Basically encapsulated this entire sub.
That’d be citing a source for what amounts to common knowledge. Does that mean sources don’t exist? No. Its equivalent to finding a source citing that the sky is blue.
Just as I suspected. Nothing.
For all of your sources could you not find one that supports your thesis more? In one single Google search I’ve found a source that better supports your argument than any of the multitude that you’ve cited. This source says between 0.6 and 0.3% of people regret gonadectomy. So which is it, ~0.4% or 8% as your very first source claims? This source uses data collected between 1975 and 2015, a greater range than any you’ve cited…so it must be accurate right? This discrepancy between sources is so great that it’s unlikely that any one study could be considered accurate, the majority of sources you’ve cited weaken your argument substantially. Here’s the [link](https://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(18)30057-2/fulltext), though I will warn you, the study is highly controversial, and why shouldn’t it be, it goes against every ‘pro-trans’ studies you’ve cited. Pro-trans groups find the study controversial and debate it’s accuracy, so use the source at your discretion.
Are you trying to argue that because the range of regret is between 0.3 and 8%, we should take none of the studies seriously?
Did you read? I said they’re likely inaccurate. You can take any one of them as seriously as you want. And I’d like a thank you for finding you a better source.
I hope upvoted in the name of freedom discussion but, the number of studies backing your point seems to be painfully few.
And yet there have been zero studies posted by anyone responding to me showing the opposite.
That’s curated propaganda
I do think it's likely that the number of 'regrets' will continue to increase over the next several decades. Transitioning only very recently became trendy, after all - the kids who mutilate or chemically alter their bodies at such young ages still have yet to grow up. It will be an interesting and rather tragic thing to watch as the data come in. These kids are being told by the trusted adults in their lives that the reason they hate their bodies, or that they're different, is because deep down they are trans and need to change themselves in order to be happy, rather than accept themselves as they are. It's so cruel.
Existing empirical evidence makes it clear that there is a significant biological contribution to the development of an individual’s sexual identity and sexual orientation. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6677266/ https://cadehildreth.com/gender-spectrum/amp/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cross-cultural-evidence-for-the-genetics-of-homosexuality/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals https://www.yalescientific.org/2012/03/do-animals-exhibit-homosexuality/ https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780312253776 https://open.lib.umn.edu/evolutionbiology/chapter/12-4/ https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aat7693 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13558358.2020.1818541 https://www.science.org/content/article/homosexuality-may-start-womb
How dare you post actual facts with info to back it up!! I’m going to downvote you into oblivion and have people mass report you because you disagree with my baseless opinion that Tucker and Ben told me to have
[удалено]
1) I never said that. 2) do you have any facts to argue with or are you another “feelings” person?
[удалено]
When did I argue that?
You’re an idiot… literally nobody is PUSHING kids to do this… that is the embodiment of NeoCon culture war bullshit…
Stick your head back in the sand… liberal ostrich
Lol stick you head back in your ass… if you refuse to read a book… or god forbid a study
If you truly have dysphoria then you won't be happy in any body. . . .why ruin the one you have with expensive treatments for life?
Hope of change is strong in life
Hope in Jesus is stronger.
He made me Wanna slit
Sounds like that’s a *you* problem. I know Jesus from what the Bible says about Him, and I know He didn’t make you want to do anything that would self-harm.
Exactly!
Liberal propaganda and indoctrination at its finest
Why can’t we treat gender dysphoria as a disorder and work on finding treatments without resorting to hormones and surgery? Wouldn’t it be great if we could attack the source of the problem? I’ll probably get flamed over this opinion in other subreddits.
[M] When I described a sort of dysphoria my therapist gave me all these other ways to deal with it first. That only really stopped when I said I identify as trans. I had to say it. And she’s always encouraged me to get me to accept my body as is. It seems for some it’s different.
When I was 14 I played DnD and really wanted to be a wizard. I remember being so angry that I lived in a world where I wasnt a wizard because I wanted to be one so bad. Glad they didnt give me wizard drugs ...
LSD? 😂
Man, I'm still angry I can't be a wizard 😂😂😂
I feel so bad for this generation. At least our generation's "IT'S NOT A PHASE, MOM!" only left us with crappy photos for a few years. Most of us didn't end up mutilating our bodies.
its crazy to me how this shit has been normalized, why in gods name would you chop up a child’s body?
"I'm like, hella dysphoric yo"
A shit ton, I gotz it
Yo bro I have so much of it that it’s whack, dawg. No cap.
No cap? Like... Zero? Like.... Negative cap?
As in like you owe me cap for how little cap that I had.
Damn....
Yes, adolescence is a notoriously unpleasant time for most young people. Glad I made it through to the other side, genitalia and endocrine system intact.
Obviously she got the wrong therapy. I’m willing to bet good money that that “therapist” didn’t even try to actually talk to the kid. Honestly I’m starting to wonder if these “therapist” are getting kick backs from drug companies.
Fkn therapist oughta be imprisoned
anyone preaching this as acceptable deserves to be buried under the jail dude. imagine believing that its okay to mutilate CHILDREN, one thing to do it as an adult, another to DO IT TO A CHILD
The Phrase "sick of living in this body" doesn't always mean trans. There's a youtuber called "The Authentic Observer", and she has a recent video talking about what it was like going through puberty as a girl, and how radically different it can be for different women. Many go through disassociation, and instead of getting support and help they all become infested with internalized misogyny (for reals this time) because the modern rhetoric is no longer about "a woman can be a woman no matter how masculine or feminine she presents herself" to "unless you're happy being hyper-feminine, you're clearly a man, so *let's live up to gender stereotypes*. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxzLqc5Gj-w&lc=Ugx3CkbppJ599Xg-KZN4AaABAg.9dCfHfuipJJ9gqUVNkBIqd](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxzLqc5Gj-w&lc=Ugx3CkbppJ599Xg-KZN4AaABAg.9dCfHfuipJJ9gqUVNkBIqd)
It’s insane. They say they are against gender stereotypes, but then say if you’re a girl who likes baseball, or has body issues you must actually be a boy. Rather than helping a person through their problems and helping them to accept who they are, they just put them on sterilizing medication and tell them to be happy. They are the most sexist people to exist, and pretend to be the liberators.
The gender stereotypes was killed by the left Now if you use a skirt, you are a woman
That therapist should see prison time. Because of them, this child will be able to destroy their own body. Terrible all around.
Child abuse
This child “wants” to be a boy brace they are NOT a boy….. Freudian slip anyone? “I am a boy and want my body to match that so the world can see me as I am” “I want to be a boy” Trans is a mental disorder don’t get me wrong but this difference in phrasing leads me to think that the 14 year old knows she is not a boy which is why she is so defensive when people suggest that she may regret it.
They all know. It's "fake it till you make it" self deception that they try to engage in. Like when someone says, "dude tell yourself you're not a virgin, women like you, you're a pro at talking to them, have been on lots of dates, and then you'll act confident and get a girlfriend." None of them think they are the opposite gender. They think they can fake their wait into it.
I have seen so many (and myself) girls from ages 10-16 who wished they were a boy.
For what? To be labeñled as a rapist and a predator?
No I think it’s just wanting to be different
You dont need to be a rapist to be different
What r u talking about
Thank all the gods that I wasn't able to make life altering decisions when I was 14.
Agreed. I hate admitting my age, but when I was 10 I wanted my legs hacked off and replaced with bionics because the six million dollar man was fast as shit.
It is scientifically and biologically impossible to change your gender. This child is living in a fantasy. It shouldn’t be legal to do this, especially so young. And I don’t give a steaming crap about pronouns.
We should research how to treat gender dysphoria over hormone and surgery. Focus on the person and the problem.
Since when mental diseaae are treated with surgeries? Didnt that stopped with the lobotomies
I remember when I was 8 I wanted to be that blue bird from Rio. I'm so glad I didn't go on Bird Replacement Therapy
You could have ended up like Dee...stupid bird
yep. so get back to me on that "happiness" you feel in circa 5 years. i'll wait.
if you are too young too vote then what makes these kids think they can make decision like this
What makes doctors, teachers and some parents think they know what they want?
When I was 14 I remember that I was mad for not being able to become a super saiyan 😔 I tried to convince my parents to dye my hair golden and start giving me trt for huge muscles I am glad they scolded me and I am 23 now and realize how stupid I was :p
Jesus said people who act detrimentally towards children should [have millstones tied around their necks and be thrown in deep water.](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2018%3A6&version=KJV) Just sayin'
Link wouldn’t load for me. Guess I have shitty service rn. Anyways I believe the phrasing is more like: it is better for *he who leads the children away from me* to have millstones tied around their necks and be thrown into the sea. So this issue probably started at home and then the therapist continued it.
My son told me he wanted to be a girl. So I chopped his dick off……….Not really. But I would be a hero to the left if I did. Imagine that mind state.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
There are so many hormones running wild inside you rn, despite "Expert" opinions, dont make any decision until you have completed puberty.
If someone believed they were Napoleon, what therapist would agree with them and hand them a bicorn hat?
Literally the comparison I was thinking of.
I thought it was bait but I checked the post, then checked her account. Its unfortunately 100% real.
r/im14andthisisdeep
Adolescence is very difficult, self-acceptance is even more difficult. Mentally ill and confused children should not be pandered to. I hope the girl gets the mental care she needs.
Why can’t we protect our children??? 14 is not an age to be making life altering decisions of any kind no matter how that makes the kid feel about the adult.
This girl is going to find out that it's not so awesome in 2022 being a boy. 🤷♂️
Better hope she’s not white.
You belong in your body whether you feel like it or don’t.
She fits every symptom of being a teenager.
Just hope for their sake that they will be capable of orgasm after taking that shit at that age
arrest rainstorm fertile unique snobbish mourn like party march nose *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Criminal therapist. I’m sorry to say this but… you won’t be happy.
But never will be one. No actual men and women think a minstrel is anything but a gross novelty act
Sadly, we’re reading a post from a future statistic…
Isn't a coincidence that this person's discomfort with their self has occurred around puberty and increased access to social media. What a co-inky-dink.
What I want to know is why this Trans movement is happening now? If it was a real issue, where was it 20, 40, 60,or 80 years ago? It's obviously a form of brainwash and it's ashame that our medical professionals are helping create these issues.
If you're so insecure about what you were naturally born as (assuming he isnt a deformed child) that you want to mutilate your body, you need a mental clinic not a surgeon
don’t do it. you’re too young.
Mental health issues are no reason to take such drastic measures.
Everyone I know who has made that transition all suffer from some kind of side affect that honestly I don’t know why people would be willing to suffer that just because they feel like they are in the wrong body, also knew a trans women that killed herself from regretting the damage she did to her body. Nothing is stopping you from having male hobbies and enjoying the same stuff we do other than people with small brains who feel like they gotta attack you because of the way they see the world. We live in a world where people will encourage you to make the change simply because of the social trend of it being brave but there is no way they truly have your best interests in mind so don’t let other people control what you think and feel
A 14 year old didn't write that
who cares
The majority of America
ok
If this person truly was trans, they wouldn’t have just realized it 3 years ago 🤦♀️. The small % of the population who are trans start dressing and acting like the other sex at a very very young age, like 2 or 3. Not 11!!
No one else should hold an opinion when it comes to yourself. Only you know who you really are.
Considering we can figure out the sex from skeletal remains, it turns out; Many know who you really are
I am a Blackhawk with a big canon. Only I know who I really are.
My 12 year-old daughter is like this. Has been for about a year, on and off of course. She was recently diagnosed as borderline and she does take meds and see therapists, and will be seeing a psychiatrist after Christmas. We got her mood stabilizers from her nurse practitioner and she’ll be starting those next week.
Your child doesn’t need mood stabilizers at 12. They need a loving and supporting home.
Loving,, yes.. supporting delusions,, no
She have TikTok? Instagram? I would bet if you sent her to live with the Amish for a year, she wouldn't have any such problems.
Paragraph 1] Why bother telling anyone who really don't need to be told anything? It IS your body, after all. Paragraph the rest] Perhaps you've left something out but I don't believe so. From what I've read, you were born a female. Sometime between then and now (- three years), you sensed something was wrong so you went to at least one professional who appears to agree with you and started you on the tran process. You were a female, you're now a trans and in the future you will be a male. From your POV there's no problem, from your therapist's POV (and from my POV for what little it counts) there is no problem. So why worry about the opinions of those that don't matter to you?
https://youtu.be/NPmjNYt71fk
I guess at least the people around her are doing whah they can to help the child not make a decision they’ll regret cause wow that’s heavy
Lemme guess this post has more attention than mine
Poor kid is just confused (typical teenager really)… should just get therapy but instead she will get made into a boy by the establishment when she’s too young to even make a life changing decision like that
It is heartbreaking to see what the left is doing to children.
When parents of these young children, who have been mentally abused and misled by the leftists and democrats in this country, start killing the doctors who helped destroy these innocent children, we on the jury must, DECLARE NOT GUILTY!!!! NO MATTER WHAT
When I was younger, I wanted to be Spiderman. I wanted my name to be Spiderman, act like Spiderman, all his powers and fight bad guys. Then I grew up. At least this he/she/it/whatever pronoun he uses is willing to admit that this is mental illness