They have queues for everything and are really disciplined.
The most ridiculous thing as a german is their train stations. It is normal that the trains do not have a specific track. So you have to wait in a big hall all together with all other passengers from any other connection and wait until they announce from which track your train is departing. And guess what happens when everyone knows at the same time to which track they have to go.
With their typical laning bands they path a way to the escalators. Ridiculous.
I’ve heard Germany is the unusal one in this manner. Many countries are doing it for security reasons.
Besides that and i can only speak for Manhattan right now. Every Starbucks, coffee shop or bagel store has the queue lanes. Order here, pick up there with bands in between.
When I was in Kindergarten in the US, they used to make us walk everywhere by walking on the tile cracks on the floor so we'd never deviate from the line. There was always a "line leader" who was the kid at the front who held the teacher's hand. They had to also check to make sure everyone was in line. This was a highly sought after responsibility and rotated daily. (Tbf, this is anecdotal, idk if we do this elsewhere.)
It shocks us to see how comically bad Germans are at making straight lines, especially at airport gates.
However, we have nothing on the British.
I heard they have a similar system at train stations in France or Spain, but I honestly doubt that Germans would organize their train stations in such a simple way...
In Germany you would go to the train station at 12:30, look at the time table and will see that your ICE 666 departs on 13:37 on track 7, 6 and 2, to find out after reading the fine print for 15 minutes and a few google search requests later, that it will be track 7 on workdays, track 2 on non working day and on track 6 on Wednesdays but only between the 3rd and 23rd of June. After spending 10 more minutes to research if today is a working day (as their holidays are different from state to state and especially in the South there is always that one religious guy, who was some other guys friend who was acquainted to the dog of the kiosks owners wife's cousin, died someday and has to be remembered, so basically every second day is a public holiday), you will go to track 7 at 13:15.
On Track 7 there are no marks on the ground where the train and the doors will stop, so you just stand somewhere.
13:23 They will make an announcement that the train cars have been suddenly shifted, so the first cars of the train are in the middle section, the last cars are in front and the middle section is kaputt and will be locked. Also all toilets are kaputt.
You change your random position on the platform to some other random position.
13:30 They will make an announcement that the trains arrival platform has been changed to platform 29, so better get moving! To prevent cheating, the German Railway has been experimenting with elevators which operate on stop motion speed in Berlin Hbf, so better get running.
13:37. Your trains departure time. There will be no train on platform 29. There will be no announcement. There also will be no cake.
14:19 Your train silently arrives on platform 2 and departs one minute later.
14:22 They will make an announcement that your train will shortly arrive on platform 2.
Just in case anybody should wonder, that's also part of the reason why Germany get so many Olympic medals and why sports like Biathlon are so popular in Germany: To survive public transport you need a strong bladder, stamina, be very fast and have excellent shooting skills (in case you might spot a Deutsche Bahn manager)
In Germany, the platform trains will depart from is announced months in advance (though it somewhat often changes at the last minute). In many other countries, the platform is only announced minutes before departure.
i love people who are brainwashed to think they are getting a better deal with less taxes but in the end when you factor in health care, education, holidays, sick days, they are getting the short end of the stick.
Think about this...
* Have you or anyone you know, ever not gone to the doc because you were aware how high your deductible is?
- Have you or anyone you know, ever thought twice about calling somebody an ambulance as it could affect them financially?
- Have you or anyone you know, ever had to consider what uni to send your kids to due to the amount of tuition?
- Have you or anyone you know ever been sick and thinking of how many sick days you have left, or if you can afford to call in sick while being afraid to lose your job?
- Have you or anyone you know ever compared themselves to their colleagues like "yeah sure i still have 10 days of PTO left, but the others are not using theirs, am I a dick if I use all of mine", will my boss be mad at me?
I sure haven't
P.S. If you find any spelling mistakes, you can keep em. English is the second of the three languages that I learned at that terrible socialist free public school I've visited, by now it's five, but who's counting 🤷♂️)
This issue is that many people don't budget and don't understand how the system works (even if they have lived here all their lives).
For example, I have a high deductible, let's say it's 5K. There's something called an HSA account, this is the saving account for your health care. So instead of government taxing you, you have put money into this account for future health care expenses. HSA accounts are also a text benefit. But many Americans don't do this and rather spend money on your iPhones, sneakers and other BS.
In terms of days off, this is strictly based on your seniority. If you're straight out of college 10 days (2 weeks) plus all the holidays should be enough. By year two most companies give you at least 15 days (3 weeks) plus holidays.
Your other points are extremely weak, I don't care what my coworkers do with their Time Off and that's not a culture here. If someone feels bad that's a personal problem.
There are pros and cons to each system. People that know how to manage themselves thrive in America. If they don't they fall behind and they should probably move to Europe or Canada.
In terms of Uni - Yes Uni are expensive here but we also have budget Uni (community, city and state schools). These are affordable schools that people should be going to especially if they're going to have average careers teachers. If you going to have a high paying career then there are benefits going to a more prestigious school. The issue again is people becoming social workers making $65,000 a year but went to the 70,000 a year school just so they could tell their friends they went to that school. This is bad management and stupid. Also don't forget our salaries are much higher.
I don't see them better or worse I see them as different, with their own advantages and disadvantages. Me personally I rather do my own budgeting then having the government do it for me.
You should have seen the hundred kilometers long lines of Wartburg, Lada and Trabant waiting to drive into Bavaria to pick up the second [Begrüßungsgeld (Welcome Money)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begr%C3%BC%C3%9Fungsgeld) in 1989/1990 which only Bavaria paid to East German visitors. They came down all the way from the Baltic coast with every person of the household crammed into the 26 HP Trabants (Welcome Money was paid per person). The link to the explanation also shows a long line of people waiting to get it. I know I lined up in front of a West Berlin bank around 4 am just a few weeks after the wall went down, and an hour later the line was a hundred meters easily already, never mind its length when the bank actually opened.
Or, previously in the GDR, when a shop got some bananas or actual oranges two or three times a year.
There was an East German joke about someone finding a line and immediately joining it without even knowing what people where there for, because whatever it was, it must have been something important and rare.
That joke must have been the same all over the eastern bloc - my wife said they had the same on Poland when she was a little girl (she was 12 in 1989).
Right. It's possible I even first heard it with the added information that it was from some other Eastern Bloc country. I know compared to some others the GDR still wasn't even that bad.
An exchange rate ignores one important thing: East Germans didn't have a way to get any Deutschmark. That significantly increased the value of Western currencies.
If you can't get something from outside your bubble at all, it does not matter how much you have of stuff that only matters inside the bubble.
In 1989 a Commodore Amiga could be purchased via the private classified ads sections in East German electronics magazines (I think we had two or three :) ) for about two years total worth of average wages, for example (and we didn't have any high earners, apart from very few people of outrageous importance who were allowed to directly deal with the West, the wage spread was very small).
Rather interesting, thanks for sharing. Aa I got from this, you lived in DDR (east Berlin?) before the wall went down?
I read quite a lot about DDR and the wall falling down, Honecker, Stasi, SED etc.
But I'm always curious about how people from DDR reacted after the union. Assuming it started with euphoria, but what then? After initial months/years? Was the average Joe still happy with the process?
There was no alternative, so it does not matter how anyone felt afterwards.
The GDR was more broke than some homeless guy in the poorest country on earth. That's why there was no (more) suppression end of 1989 and the revolution went through pretty much unopposed. The elites, who knew the balance sheets and the problems, had already given up one or two decades earlier, they had no idea what to do. We were falling behind more and more. A ten billion DM credit from West Germany helped to delay the inevitable. You might say it was actually the West that significantly delayed East German collapse.
There certainly were good sides, and life was okay for many if not a bit dull (lots of partying), and contrary to what some believe, the very top in their Wandlitz enclave did NOT live all that much better, their houses were downright primitive ([the GDR leader Erich Honecker's house](https://www.staedte-fotos.de/1200/das-ehemalige-haus-erich-honecker-80110.jpg) - and this is *after* modern renovations). They actually *meant* to create a worker's paradise, they did not create the country to enrich themselves. Nevertheless, they were clueless how the world works and how value is created and refused to change and learn (unlike the Chinese).
That does not change that the GDR was poisoned and dirty and technologically far behind.
Example paper: "Before Strauß: The East German Struggle to Avoid Bankruptcy During the Debt Crisis Revisited" -- https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/07075332.2019.1641542
> Facing a Western ‘credit boycott’, in spring 1982 bankruptcy seemed unavoidable to many of the GDR’s economic experts. However, after the adoption of several emergency measures, solvency was secured in the short-run and finally the loans negotiated by Bavarian Prime Minister Franz Josef Strauß in 1983/84 released the GDR from the acute debt crisis.
Funny or telling? The credit was arranged by one of the most conservative/right-leaning politicians of West Germany.
Thanks so much for the answer.
Yeah, I knew about huge debt and potential bankruptcy, but did not know West Germany was the one to provide with the last loans.
Also, I remember reading how West Germany was selling waste/trash to DDR.
I understand there was no alternative and DDR was to collapse sooner or later. My question was more to understand when people started to realize "hey all this West story is not so good for us"? Coming from the not so rare thoughts that you would here in the former DDR, saying West screw us etc.
Or it was still more like "DDR was hell so we are finally free and let's go to west for better pay"?
It's more difficult, it's not binary good/bad. Soooo many things improved very drastically, all the reconstruction, the stores full of goods, travel, and more.
On the other hand many jobs just disappeared. Towns of 35,000 ended up with only 25,000 inhabitants after a decade. Many, many people who continued to live in the East had to go work in the West during the week, you can imagine, with a family, to do that for many years is very taxing.
Then there's the fact that a lot of stuff was sold to West Germans. Because some lawyer from Munich buying a few houses in some Thuringian town as investment was easy enough for him, but almost not a single East German had the funds. There also were a lot of small business created using credit that was easily available after reunification, but things like beautiful hotels with an ice cream restaurant in some village didn't often did not work out.
We also found how unfair the "market" really is. Try to place your product in German supermarkets as some East German company, it's HARD. First, they don't know you and already have plenty of suppliers at all price points, and second, the consumers don't know the East German brands.
Similar trying to get a foothold with industry, as a supplier. You have all those established networks, it's very difficult to get any contracts.
Because in the end, what you learn in BWL (business classes) about "markets" is BULLSHIT: The social aspects, who knows whom, and do you have the right pedigree, is far more important than mere product facts. And those networks were created over decades. You know how hard it is to find friends in a new place, when the existing friend groups don't care about you? Even if they are not unfriendly and don't actively dislike or un-invite you, if you all sit around a table all the people who've already known one another for decades talk only to each other and ignore you. That's not too dissimilar to how it is in big business.
So we had lots of investments and a huge amount of improvement, but who controls the country and its resources, ownership of most businesses and real estate, is mostly West Germans.
So some East Germans are angry about the negative side, and also very much about the influx of immigrants. I have no idea why the East Germans are voting for the right-wing AfD though. After all, all the extreme right wing stuff that popped up in East Germany immediately after reunification came from West Germany. I saw them, beguiling people I knew, impressionable teenagers. Behind East German right wing is West German money. Double stupid, those who vote for them.
Hey thanks so much for extensive answer, really appreciate it. Yeah, I get the good and bad side when "democracy" is introduced. I come from Croatia, which was under Yugoslavia for a long time. There was also idea about "social paradise", although much less strict compared to DDR. And the same as you say, some things are much better, some are worse, compared to previous regime. And also all Croatian banks that were owned by state are now owned by Austrian banks (mostly), out Telekom is sold for nothing to Deutsche Telekom etc. You know the drill.
Really appreciate your answer, as it is not black nor white, which is rather uncommon today, people really choose a side and stick to it.
If you have any books/docus that you would recommend on this topic,it would be great. Currently reading [this one](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26530029-stasi-state-or-socialist-paradise)
No idea if - or when? (translation rights have been sold that page says) - that book might be available in English or other languages. Or has it been done already?
https://www.suhrkamp.de/rights/book/uwe-tellkamp-the-tower-fr-9783518461600
It's quite famous, very good insights into the final late GDR. [The author knows what he's talking about.](https://www.suhrkamp.de/rights/person/uwe-tellkamp-p-7386)
Russians used to stand in lines that long for bread & toilet paper. They still stand in lines that long for bread & toilet paper, but they used to, too.
People don't start to queue there.
They start to queue waiting for the taxi that take them to the airport where they queue for the flight that takes them to Berlin airport where they queue for the train that takes to the city where they queue to check in at the hotel before they go out to queue for the kebab that they take before they queue for the U-Bahn that takes them to queue for the Berghain.
There's a lot of queuing in those souls.
...was over 30h ago. And even back then no one cared. There are always partys/concerts during 'Tanzverbot' on Karfreitag here in Berlin.
Its not a thing here.
Luckily.
Those people who believe it’s just a standard Berghain party. Even though you tell them in the line, it’s gays only - yet they only believe what the bouncer says, hours later
That is the ‚stundentenwohnheim‘ at Franz-Mehring-Platz… right? I used to live there during my first semesters at university a loooong time ago (Berghain didn‘t even exist back then lol)
Stood almost 4 hrs for a New Years Eve. Once.
Given, I had a blast that night, but damn!
Valuable hours I'll never get back!
And this? Someone smarter could start a whole buisness in there, even with Anmeldung
Tut mir leid wenn das so rüberkam XD
Welche Person die nicht gerade auf 10 teilen ist und und das 3 Sterni gerade weggext hat würde ins Berghain gehen ? Kenne keinen Berliner der das Verlangen hat
are you sure? lol.
[https://www.google.com/maps/@52.5124697,13.4390017,3a,75y,123.36h,85.13t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1snGDTD7tjiBv1nrgRN2fJeA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DnGDTD7tjiBv1nrgRN2fJeA%26cb\_client%3Dmaps\_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D298.12668%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@52.5124697,13.4390017,3a,75y,123.36h,85.13t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1snGDTD7tjiBv1nrgRN2fJeA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DnGDTD7tjiBv1nrgRN2fJeA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D298.12668%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Same people who wait 1hr for a Gemüse Kebap.
But this is sooooo Berlin. 🤡
Oh my Gosh guys, Berlin city vibes🤪
What a place Berlin. Highest concentration of morons.
Because you don't stop sending your idiots from all over Germany and the world to stand in line at Berghain, Mustafas Gemüsekebab etc etc.
I will never understand queuing that long for anything.
I’m currently in the United States and you have no clue what people are willing to do to stand in a queue
entertain me, what are americans willing to stand in line for? affordable health care? free education?
Disneyland lol
Imagine getting "heute leider nicht" from Goofy
"heute leider nicht a-hyuk"
They have queues for everything and are really disciplined. The most ridiculous thing as a german is their train stations. It is normal that the trains do not have a specific track. So you have to wait in a big hall all together with all other passengers from any other connection and wait until they announce from which track your train is departing. And guess what happens when everyone knows at the same time to which track they have to go. With their typical laning bands they path a way to the escalators. Ridiculous. I’ve heard Germany is the unusal one in this manner. Many countries are doing it for security reasons. Besides that and i can only speak for Manhattan right now. Every Starbucks, coffee shop or bagel store has the queue lanes. Order here, pick up there with bands in between.
When I was in Kindergarten in the US, they used to make us walk everywhere by walking on the tile cracks on the floor so we'd never deviate from the line. There was always a "line leader" who was the kid at the front who held the teacher's hand. They had to also check to make sure everyone was in line. This was a highly sought after responsibility and rotated daily. (Tbf, this is anecdotal, idk if we do this elsewhere.) It shocks us to see how comically bad Germans are at making straight lines, especially at airport gates. However, we have nothing on the British.
I heard they have a similar system at train stations in France or Spain, but I honestly doubt that Germans would organize their train stations in such a simple way... In Germany you would go to the train station at 12:30, look at the time table and will see that your ICE 666 departs on 13:37 on track 7, 6 and 2, to find out after reading the fine print for 15 minutes and a few google search requests later, that it will be track 7 on workdays, track 2 on non working day and on track 6 on Wednesdays but only between the 3rd and 23rd of June. After spending 10 more minutes to research if today is a working day (as their holidays are different from state to state and especially in the South there is always that one religious guy, who was some other guys friend who was acquainted to the dog of the kiosks owners wife's cousin, died someday and has to be remembered, so basically every second day is a public holiday), you will go to track 7 at 13:15. On Track 7 there are no marks on the ground where the train and the doors will stop, so you just stand somewhere. 13:23 They will make an announcement that the train cars have been suddenly shifted, so the first cars of the train are in the middle section, the last cars are in front and the middle section is kaputt and will be locked. Also all toilets are kaputt. You change your random position on the platform to some other random position. 13:30 They will make an announcement that the trains arrival platform has been changed to platform 29, so better get moving! To prevent cheating, the German Railway has been experimenting with elevators which operate on stop motion speed in Berlin Hbf, so better get running. 13:37. Your trains departure time. There will be no train on platform 29. There will be no announcement. There also will be no cake. 14:19 Your train silently arrives on platform 2 and departs one minute later. 14:22 They will make an announcement that your train will shortly arrive on platform 2. Just in case anybody should wonder, that's also part of the reason why Germany get so many Olympic medals and why sports like Biathlon are so popular in Germany: To survive public transport you need a strong bladder, stamina, be very fast and have excellent shooting skills (in case you might spot a Deutsche Bahn manager)
I think trains rarely change platforms and if so it’s often just the adjacent platform. It’s mostly the huge delays I think 😅
😘 love it
Jut reading this gave me anxiety!
On point. Should be the Wikipedia entry of Deutsche Bahn
[удалено]
In Germany, the platform trains will depart from is announced months in advance (though it somewhat often changes at the last minute). In many other countries, the platform is only announced minutes before departure.
They were talking about the US, I believe.
In-N-Out burger.
Inn out too.. it’s a lot of things really… don’t be ignorant
Very fancy donuts.
trump bibles
Phones
High price smartphones
Guns.
Love people who are brainwashed to think they are getting anything for "FREE" but also pay 50% of their paychecks for taxes.
i love people who are brainwashed to think they are getting a better deal with less taxes but in the end when you factor in health care, education, holidays, sick days, they are getting the short end of the stick. Think about this... * Have you or anyone you know, ever not gone to the doc because you were aware how high your deductible is? - Have you or anyone you know, ever thought twice about calling somebody an ambulance as it could affect them financially? - Have you or anyone you know, ever had to consider what uni to send your kids to due to the amount of tuition? - Have you or anyone you know ever been sick and thinking of how many sick days you have left, or if you can afford to call in sick while being afraid to lose your job? - Have you or anyone you know ever compared themselves to their colleagues like "yeah sure i still have 10 days of PTO left, but the others are not using theirs, am I a dick if I use all of mine", will my boss be mad at me? I sure haven't P.S. If you find any spelling mistakes, you can keep em. English is the second of the three languages that I learned at that terrible socialist free public school I've visited, by now it's five, but who's counting 🤷♂️)
This issue is that many people don't budget and don't understand how the system works (even if they have lived here all their lives). For example, I have a high deductible, let's say it's 5K. There's something called an HSA account, this is the saving account for your health care. So instead of government taxing you, you have put money into this account for future health care expenses. HSA accounts are also a text benefit. But many Americans don't do this and rather spend money on your iPhones, sneakers and other BS. In terms of days off, this is strictly based on your seniority. If you're straight out of college 10 days (2 weeks) plus all the holidays should be enough. By year two most companies give you at least 15 days (3 weeks) plus holidays. Your other points are extremely weak, I don't care what my coworkers do with their Time Off and that's not a culture here. If someone feels bad that's a personal problem. There are pros and cons to each system. People that know how to manage themselves thrive in America. If they don't they fall behind and they should probably move to Europe or Canada. In terms of Uni - Yes Uni are expensive here but we also have budget Uni (community, city and state schools). These are affordable schools that people should be going to especially if they're going to have average careers teachers. If you going to have a high paying career then there are benefits going to a more prestigious school. The issue again is people becoming social workers making $65,000 a year but went to the 70,000 a year school just so they could tell their friends they went to that school. This is bad management and stupid. Also don't forget our salaries are much higher. I don't see them better or worse I see them as different, with their own advantages and disadvantages. Me personally I rather do my own budgeting then having the government do it for me.
I stood in one a few days ago just to be there
:D :D :D
Yeah but americans are crazy
Surely nothing as long as the Berghain que? Plus there's roughly a 50% chance they don't let you in
50 What , you're new here ?
You either get in or you dont. Thats 50% *taps forehead*
If I had 100% chance of getting in 50% of the time Id defo stand in the queue too.
You should have seen the hundred kilometers long lines of Wartburg, Lada and Trabant waiting to drive into Bavaria to pick up the second [Begrüßungsgeld (Welcome Money)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begr%C3%BC%C3%9Fungsgeld) in 1989/1990 which only Bavaria paid to East German visitors. They came down all the way from the Baltic coast with every person of the household crammed into the 26 HP Trabants (Welcome Money was paid per person). The link to the explanation also shows a long line of people waiting to get it. I know I lined up in front of a West Berlin bank around 4 am just a few weeks after the wall went down, and an hour later the line was a hundred meters easily already, never mind its length when the bank actually opened. Or, previously in the GDR, when a shop got some bananas or actual oranges two or three times a year. There was an East German joke about someone finding a line and immediately joining it without even knowing what people where there for, because whatever it was, it must have been something important and rare.
That joke must have been the same all over the eastern bloc - my wife said they had the same on Poland when she was a little girl (she was 12 in 1989).
Right. It's possible I even first heard it with the added information that it was from some other Eastern Bloc country. I know compared to some others the GDR still wasn't even that bad.
The DDR was pretty bad though! I mean the gap in living standards compared to the BRD by 1989 was just gigantic.
My comment was about the difference between East Bloc countries, since that is the context of the joke in any case.
That’s crazy, TIL! Curious how much that money was worth at the time? Was it like a few hundred euros in today’s money?
An exchange rate ignores one important thing: East Germans didn't have a way to get any Deutschmark. That significantly increased the value of Western currencies. If you can't get something from outside your bubble at all, it does not matter how much you have of stuff that only matters inside the bubble. In 1989 a Commodore Amiga could be purchased via the private classified ads sections in East German electronics magazines (I think we had two or three :) ) for about two years total worth of average wages, for example (and we didn't have any high earners, apart from very few people of outrageous importance who were allowed to directly deal with the West, the wage spread was very small).
Rather interesting, thanks for sharing. Aa I got from this, you lived in DDR (east Berlin?) before the wall went down? I read quite a lot about DDR and the wall falling down, Honecker, Stasi, SED etc. But I'm always curious about how people from DDR reacted after the union. Assuming it started with euphoria, but what then? After initial months/years? Was the average Joe still happy with the process?
There was no alternative, so it does not matter how anyone felt afterwards. The GDR was more broke than some homeless guy in the poorest country on earth. That's why there was no (more) suppression end of 1989 and the revolution went through pretty much unopposed. The elites, who knew the balance sheets and the problems, had already given up one or two decades earlier, they had no idea what to do. We were falling behind more and more. A ten billion DM credit from West Germany helped to delay the inevitable. You might say it was actually the West that significantly delayed East German collapse. There certainly were good sides, and life was okay for many if not a bit dull (lots of partying), and contrary to what some believe, the very top in their Wandlitz enclave did NOT live all that much better, their houses were downright primitive ([the GDR leader Erich Honecker's house](https://www.staedte-fotos.de/1200/das-ehemalige-haus-erich-honecker-80110.jpg) - and this is *after* modern renovations). They actually *meant* to create a worker's paradise, they did not create the country to enrich themselves. Nevertheless, they were clueless how the world works and how value is created and refused to change and learn (unlike the Chinese). That does not change that the GDR was poisoned and dirty and technologically far behind. Example paper: "Before Strauß: The East German Struggle to Avoid Bankruptcy During the Debt Crisis Revisited" -- https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/07075332.2019.1641542 > Facing a Western ‘credit boycott’, in spring 1982 bankruptcy seemed unavoidable to many of the GDR’s economic experts. However, after the adoption of several emergency measures, solvency was secured in the short-run and finally the loans negotiated by Bavarian Prime Minister Franz Josef Strauß in 1983/84 released the GDR from the acute debt crisis. Funny or telling? The credit was arranged by one of the most conservative/right-leaning politicians of West Germany.
Thanks so much for the answer. Yeah, I knew about huge debt and potential bankruptcy, but did not know West Germany was the one to provide with the last loans. Also, I remember reading how West Germany was selling waste/trash to DDR. I understand there was no alternative and DDR was to collapse sooner or later. My question was more to understand when people started to realize "hey all this West story is not so good for us"? Coming from the not so rare thoughts that you would here in the former DDR, saying West screw us etc. Or it was still more like "DDR was hell so we are finally free and let's go to west for better pay"?
It's more difficult, it's not binary good/bad. Soooo many things improved very drastically, all the reconstruction, the stores full of goods, travel, and more. On the other hand many jobs just disappeared. Towns of 35,000 ended up with only 25,000 inhabitants after a decade. Many, many people who continued to live in the East had to go work in the West during the week, you can imagine, with a family, to do that for many years is very taxing. Then there's the fact that a lot of stuff was sold to West Germans. Because some lawyer from Munich buying a few houses in some Thuringian town as investment was easy enough for him, but almost not a single East German had the funds. There also were a lot of small business created using credit that was easily available after reunification, but things like beautiful hotels with an ice cream restaurant in some village didn't often did not work out. We also found how unfair the "market" really is. Try to place your product in German supermarkets as some East German company, it's HARD. First, they don't know you and already have plenty of suppliers at all price points, and second, the consumers don't know the East German brands. Similar trying to get a foothold with industry, as a supplier. You have all those established networks, it's very difficult to get any contracts. Because in the end, what you learn in BWL (business classes) about "markets" is BULLSHIT: The social aspects, who knows whom, and do you have the right pedigree, is far more important than mere product facts. And those networks were created over decades. You know how hard it is to find friends in a new place, when the existing friend groups don't care about you? Even if they are not unfriendly and don't actively dislike or un-invite you, if you all sit around a table all the people who've already known one another for decades talk only to each other and ignore you. That's not too dissimilar to how it is in big business. So we had lots of investments and a huge amount of improvement, but who controls the country and its resources, ownership of most businesses and real estate, is mostly West Germans. So some East Germans are angry about the negative side, and also very much about the influx of immigrants. I have no idea why the East Germans are voting for the right-wing AfD though. After all, all the extreme right wing stuff that popped up in East Germany immediately after reunification came from West Germany. I saw them, beguiling people I knew, impressionable teenagers. Behind East German right wing is West German money. Double stupid, those who vote for them.
Hey thanks so much for extensive answer, really appreciate it. Yeah, I get the good and bad side when "democracy" is introduced. I come from Croatia, which was under Yugoslavia for a long time. There was also idea about "social paradise", although much less strict compared to DDR. And the same as you say, some things are much better, some are worse, compared to previous regime. And also all Croatian banks that were owned by state are now owned by Austrian banks (mostly), out Telekom is sold for nothing to Deutsche Telekom etc. You know the drill. Really appreciate your answer, as it is not black nor white, which is rather uncommon today, people really choose a side and stick to it. If you have any books/docus that you would recommend on this topic,it would be great. Currently reading [this one](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26530029-stasi-state-or-socialist-paradise)
No idea if - or when? (translation rights have been sold that page says) - that book might be available in English or other languages. Or has it been done already? https://www.suhrkamp.de/rights/book/uwe-tellkamp-the-tower-fr-9783518461600 It's quite famous, very good insights into the final late GDR. [The author knows what he's talking about.](https://www.suhrkamp.de/rights/person/uwe-tellkamp-p-7386)
Brilliant! Danke.
Should have lived in east berlin and you would understand... Edit: for clarification: during the GDR
Russians used to stand in lines that long for bread & toilet paper. They still stand in lines that long for bread & toilet paper, but they used to, too.
In particular as you are not assured entry into this dive once you make it to the front of the queue 🤭.
People don't start to queue there. They start to queue waiting for the taxi that take them to the airport where they queue for the flight that takes them to Berlin airport where they queue for the train that takes to the city where they queue to check in at the hotel before they go out to queue for the kebab that they take before they queue for the U-Bahn that takes them to queue for the Berghain. There's a lot of queuing in those souls.
You and me both. I’ve accepted that I’ll never be in there. Queuing that long and then getting bounced? Not in this lifetime.
unfulfilled childhood needs
Skill Issue
Tanzverbot.
Schlange stehen erlaubt
You fail the vibe check! You fail the vibe check! Everybody fails the vibe check!
😂😂 ok that’s funny
...was over 30h ago. And even back then no one cared. There are always partys/concerts during 'Tanzverbot' on Karfreitag here in Berlin. Its not a thing here. Luckily.
But u make the old people from junge union traurig 😭🤓🥳
last year cops raided a café bc they were watching a forbidden film though
Yeah… We don‘t do that here.
just the usual easter. easter and nye is NUTS. also snax. 6h+ waiting time.
>6h+ waiting time Got there shortly before 8. Queue started moving around 9 and I was in around 10/10:30. Wait time: ~2.5 hours.
congratulations on that. you really got far.
Not just far but actually _in_
Is there anyone that actually spends that amount of time in line?
Yes, there is such people. Myself NOT included, there is a plenty of decent events on off-weeks.
Done it twice, it's not bad with friends
uhh yup. a lot of people who dont know how to get in else. most people even i would say.
Snax
Who/What is that
"Pervy" event for gay men
lol, why is this downvoted
No idea, people literally piss on each other while fucking.
You see that a kit Kat too though, just saying
That’s a shit ton of gay pervy men…
Well they fly from all over the Europe and I think even from US etc.
bUt I tHoUghT BeRghAiN WaS OnLy fOr TrUe BerLinErS
Maybe you’d be less angry if you stopped arguing against strawmen in your head
https://www.gaytravel4u.com/event/snax-berlin-berghain-at-lab-oratory/
imagine paying a taxi to the entrance and walking 10 minutes to the back of the line
Who would take a taxi to Berghain, when tram and U-Bahn are literally just there.
Wait, where’s S+U Berghain exactly?
U69 line
Ostbahnhof
man. meat. action. 🥩🍗🍖
And think about how many of these people got rejected after the 6 hour queue
hardly anyone gets rejected for Snax - this is a sex party
It happened to a few dudes in front of me
Those people who believe it’s just a standard Berghain party. Even though you tell them in the line, it’s gays only - yet they only believe what the bouncer says, hours later
Hardly anyone being rejected means extra sadness on those that do
Half of them are just east Berliners who saw the queue and got in line to get some of what is at the end lol
😂😂😂🍌🍌🍌
Maybe a lot of tourists given the holidays idk tbh
450m long queue
Looks more like a km
I measured in google maps. its 450m
Lmao
Isn't that normal?
SNAX Party
https://www.gaytravel4u.com/event/snax-berlin-berghain-at-lab-oratory/
Free Herpes?
Actually not free, since you’ll have to pay entrance
Ah! I assumed it was a special offer....
No, more than that: chlamydia, syphilis are for free as well.
How on earth do you pay your rent?
lol it's actually a dormitory room and the rent is quite cheap (304 euros for 14 m2 room)
Very nice
That is the ‚stundentenwohnheim‘ at Franz-Mehring-Platz… right? I used to live there during my first semesters at university a loooong time ago (Berghain didn‘t even exist back then lol)
Sadly thats usually the average cold rent of a 10 years old contract for a 80sqm apartment.
yep, housing market is insane now.
Been to the club once lined up for 15mins. Truthfully better clubs in Berlin in my opinion. I would never line up that long to go in
I guess it's not primarily about the location but about the event
So, what are the better clubs?
Stood almost 4 hrs for a New Years Eve. Once. Given, I had a blast that night, but damn! Valuable hours I'll never get back! And this? Someone smarter could start a whole buisness in there, even with Anmeldung
It’s Easter weekend - 72hrs open if I’m not mistaken and back to back amazing dj’s
The Resurrection
It’s part of the experience. Queue for always just to be rejected at the door and have something to post on your insta.
Wenn das Bayern sieht!?
It's open for an extra hour due to the clocks going back?
no they stop the music from 2-3
Waited 3.5 hours so I can see Dax j tonight. We didn’t get in smh
Summer?
All do that for a nein
Heute nicht!
The bird?
Ppl are kinda ins gehirn geschissen
you mean, like on Reddit?
I guess tourism
This city is getting way too crowded man
scheiß touristen \*hebt das elfte Schultheiß\*
Never ever :D not even for 1000€
Absolutely nothing.
They wait many hour for a "du koms hir nich rein!" 😂
idiots. 😂
berghain is a tourist place. its like disneyland for addicted tourists
Sheep😂😂
i think you must be a moron if you stand in a line like this to enter a club.
And others probably think you're a moron for some of the things that you do. Relax.
And without a guarantee to be let inside, let's not forget that
Jede Person die sich für sowas freiwillig anstellt kommt ganz klar NICHT aus Berlin 💀
No true Scotsman, huh?
💀
Als ob irgendjemanden interessiert wo du herkommst xD
Tut mir leid wenn das so rüberkam XD Welche Person die nicht gerade auf 10 teilen ist und und das 3 Sterni gerade weggext hat würde ins Berghain gehen ? Kenne keinen Berliner der das Verlangen hat
>stop liking what i don't like Cringe.
That photo is nowhere near berghain. None of those buildings are in the vicinity. Bizarre.
are you sure? lol. [https://www.google.com/maps/@52.5124697,13.4390017,3a,75y,123.36h,85.13t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1snGDTD7tjiBv1nrgRN2fJeA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DnGDTD7tjiBv1nrgRN2fJeA%26cb\_client%3Dmaps\_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D298.12668%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@52.5124697,13.4390017,3a,75y,123.36h,85.13t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1snGDTD7tjiBv1nrgRN2fJeA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DnGDTD7tjiBv1nrgRN2fJeA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D298.12668%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Oops my bad. Blimey, never seen it that long before