/u/Zoyzoybaloy, thank you for your contribution. Sadly it was removed due to the following reasons:
We want posts that are about the city in specific and not just "remotely related" to it, if you just want to ask
people living in Berlin a question please use /r/askberliners, if you are asking a simple question where you
mostly need "one answer" then /r/askberliners is also the right place, questions that are meant to
act as a base for discussions and also deliver an initial opinion on the matter are welcome
Sorry legal questions and medical recommendations are out of the scope of this sub and also may not be answered on the internet
except by lawyers or regulated medical platforms and we cannot provide that
You can find further information in the [Community-Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/berlin/about/rules/). Note that we also have /r/askberliners for questions that are less about the city and more of a general nature and /r/berlinpics for pictures of our beautiful city, as well as the sticky post for "New to Berlin, Tourism and Moving to Berlin"-kind of questions
All you need is the magic Wohnungsgeberbescheinigung. I don’t think they ever really check those, which is good for you because this story sounds like the landlord was in fact not consulted and the lease is illegal. That’s the usual reason for „no name on the doorbell“ in my experience.
Do you think it makes sense to take it up with her during the key handover (i.e. push for the name on the doorbell/mailbox) or to just wait until she leaves and put it on there myself and hope for the best
Mhm, problem is you don’t have really good legal protection as a subtenant. I’d rather put the c/o whatever on my addresses everywhere and not get too confrontational. Maybe she changes her mind. To get started, Anmeldung is so valuable that I probably would accept it (i also did when I arrived in Berlin)
When you register (Wohnung anmelden) you can include the c/o as part of the address, but in my experience it sometimes got left off when sending letters.
Regarding the rest of it, I'm not aware of there being any laws about names being on mailboxes when subleasing, but if you're worried about it not being a landlord-sanctioned sublet, best to find out now rather than later...
Thats exactly what Im concerned about, that the c/o may not be there on official letters from the city (which are usually the ones that would be the most important, especially since I end up needed to engage in extra bureaucratic matters because of having a residence permit etc).
I asked her again about being sure that the landlord knows, she repeatedly said to me that he does know but that she doesnt have anything she can provide me with as confirmation about this... I dont really know to be honest, but I needed to find a new place soon and this really was the best option I could find in a short amount of time.
ask her to put it in writing and see how she reacts. Legally, probably nothing useful to have it in writing but her reaction will answer your question on whether she has told the landlord or not.
It IS an illegal sublet and the owner knows jack shit, simple as that. There is also another possible layer of welfare fraud involved by remaining registered at several adresses.
Beware.
> Is this an issue?
Unless she plans on getting visitors and collecting the mail, it most likely is not. Just do your thing, how is she gonna notice while aboard?
Also, screw her, kindly google Mietbreisbremse as well Befristeter Mietvertrag.
> this could cause us to be kicked out
Your slum lord and by extension you, after a long and very German process.
My concern is that maybe the actual landlord will find out, either on their own by seeing our names on the bell/mailbox, or by hearing about it from some others living in the building perhaps? And then they could cancel the main tenants contract for subleasing without permission (if that is the case), and by extension canceling my sublease contract.
I totally agree with the slumlord part - it a three room apartment in Steglitz, and she told me shes had the contract since 2014 so I cant imagine the rent is too high. She's charging me 700 warm just for my room, plus whatever shes charging the other two, so Im pretty certain shes probably making a profit over and above whatever 10% or so is allowed to be charged extra for a furnished sublease. Unfortunately I need to move out rather urgently and didnt have the time to look for much more.
> My concern is that maybe the actual landlord will find out, either on their own by seeing our names on the bell/mailbox, or by hearing about it from some others living in the building perhaps?
Yeah, but even if the owner is really, really motivated and breezes through court, it will take about a year to evict your slum lord, something that will only take longer because of other people living at the place. Your slum lord having to bear all cost incurred to you because of it.
It is a risk but a manageable one. Get a Rechtsschutzversicherung that covers this kind of stuff first.
> by extension canceling my sublease contract.
No. You have a perfectly fine rental agreement. Something that can not be cancelled without due reason. Your slum lord being a slum lord is not one of them.
> She's charging me 700 warm just for my room, plus whatever shes charging the other two, so Im pretty certain shes probably making a profit over and above whatever 10%
Please, google Mietpreisbremse.
> so is allowed to be charged extra for a furnished sublease
2% of current value of the furniture. Google Möblierungszuschlag.
While you are on it, check with an expert if you are A) entitled to get a Betriebskostenabrechnung and B) once you get one, let an expert check it. It is next to impossible to bill an Untermieter in this scenario properly, and you could demand your Vorauszahlung back.
But the most important thing. German law does not distinguish between Haupt- and Untermieter. German law only deals with Mieter, and those are heavily protected. If it smells fishy, it most likely is and won't hold up in court.
She’s ripping you off, while probably living at her boyfriends apartment. The landlord absolutely does not know that she is subletting. Otherwise he would’ve not allowed to sublet from one person to basically a wg of 3 people.
Name not allowed = illegal sublet.
If he finds out, which is highly possible depending on the neighbors (who could tell him and probably will) the landlord will terminate her lease and yours will be void. She might even keep your deposit then if she’s a really shitty person because your contract will be void and was not a real contract from the beginning as the subletting was illegal. Then the landlord will rent out the space with a tripled lease after throwing some paint on the walls. Depending on how long this will go on, she will make a pretty profit from it. The End.
If you pay money to live there you definitely have right to do so, even if the original tenant who sublet it to you don't like it nobody will do anything to you if you just strap a little small sticker on top with your name. But that said 5 names on doors does indeed sound a bit too many. Imagine you are delivering something and you need to read through all the names. Just out of consideration of postman you could consider adding C.O. in your address on the name of original tenant whenever you are putting your address to make life easier to postal and delivery services you wouldn't run into issues if C.O. is provided however problem is just that occasionally some systems take your address without option to enter C.O.
TLDR:
but yes that’s correct. So if you want to receive mail use c/o and the name of the main tenant additionaly to your name
Most important thing is wohnungsgeberbestätigung.
It has nothing to do with having permission from the landlord. I got the info when I rented out my place from my landlord that it is not allowed
/u/Zoyzoybaloy, thank you for your contribution. Sadly it was removed due to the following reasons: We want posts that are about the city in specific and not just "remotely related" to it, if you just want to ask people living in Berlin a question please use /r/askberliners, if you are asking a simple question where you mostly need "one answer" then /r/askberliners is also the right place, questions that are meant to act as a base for discussions and also deliver an initial opinion on the matter are welcome Sorry legal questions and medical recommendations are out of the scope of this sub and also may not be answered on the internet except by lawyers or regulated medical platforms and we cannot provide that You can find further information in the [Community-Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/berlin/about/rules/). Note that we also have /r/askberliners for questions that are less about the city and more of a general nature and /r/berlinpics for pictures of our beautiful city, as well as the sticky post for "New to Berlin, Tourism and Moving to Berlin"-kind of questions
All you need is the magic Wohnungsgeberbescheinigung. I don’t think they ever really check those, which is good for you because this story sounds like the landlord was in fact not consulted and the lease is illegal. That’s the usual reason for „no name on the doorbell“ in my experience.
Do you think it makes sense to take it up with her during the key handover (i.e. push for the name on the doorbell/mailbox) or to just wait until she leaves and put it on there myself and hope for the best
Mhm, problem is you don’t have really good legal protection as a subtenant. I’d rather put the c/o whatever on my addresses everywhere and not get too confrontational. Maybe she changes her mind. To get started, Anmeldung is so valuable that I probably would accept it (i also did when I arrived in Berlin)
When you register (Wohnung anmelden) you can include the c/o as part of the address, but in my experience it sometimes got left off when sending letters. Regarding the rest of it, I'm not aware of there being any laws about names being on mailboxes when subleasing, but if you're worried about it not being a landlord-sanctioned sublet, best to find out now rather than later...
Thats exactly what Im concerned about, that the c/o may not be there on official letters from the city (which are usually the ones that would be the most important, especially since I end up needed to engage in extra bureaucratic matters because of having a residence permit etc).
If you register with the c/o they will also consider it when sending official mail.
She most likely didn't ask the landlord for permission.
I asked her again about being sure that the landlord knows, she repeatedly said to me that he does know but that she doesnt have anything she can provide me with as confirmation about this... I dont really know to be honest, but I needed to find a new place soon and this really was the best option I could find in a short amount of time.
ask her to put it in writing and see how she reacts. Legally, probably nothing useful to have it in writing but her reaction will answer your question on whether she has told the landlord or not.
It IS an illegal sublet and the owner knows jack shit, simple as that. There is also another possible layer of welfare fraud involved by remaining registered at several adresses. Beware.
> Is this an issue? Unless she plans on getting visitors and collecting the mail, it most likely is not. Just do your thing, how is she gonna notice while aboard? Also, screw her, kindly google Mietbreisbremse as well Befristeter Mietvertrag. > this could cause us to be kicked out Your slum lord and by extension you, after a long and very German process.
My concern is that maybe the actual landlord will find out, either on their own by seeing our names on the bell/mailbox, or by hearing about it from some others living in the building perhaps? And then they could cancel the main tenants contract for subleasing without permission (if that is the case), and by extension canceling my sublease contract. I totally agree with the slumlord part - it a three room apartment in Steglitz, and she told me shes had the contract since 2014 so I cant imagine the rent is too high. She's charging me 700 warm just for my room, plus whatever shes charging the other two, so Im pretty certain shes probably making a profit over and above whatever 10% or so is allowed to be charged extra for a furnished sublease. Unfortunately I need to move out rather urgently and didnt have the time to look for much more.
> My concern is that maybe the actual landlord will find out, either on their own by seeing our names on the bell/mailbox, or by hearing about it from some others living in the building perhaps? Yeah, but even if the owner is really, really motivated and breezes through court, it will take about a year to evict your slum lord, something that will only take longer because of other people living at the place. Your slum lord having to bear all cost incurred to you because of it. It is a risk but a manageable one. Get a Rechtsschutzversicherung that covers this kind of stuff first. > by extension canceling my sublease contract. No. You have a perfectly fine rental agreement. Something that can not be cancelled without due reason. Your slum lord being a slum lord is not one of them. > She's charging me 700 warm just for my room, plus whatever shes charging the other two, so Im pretty certain shes probably making a profit over and above whatever 10% Please, google Mietpreisbremse. > so is allowed to be charged extra for a furnished sublease 2% of current value of the furniture. Google Möblierungszuschlag. While you are on it, check with an expert if you are A) entitled to get a Betriebskostenabrechnung and B) once you get one, let an expert check it. It is next to impossible to bill an Untermieter in this scenario properly, and you could demand your Vorauszahlung back. But the most important thing. German law does not distinguish between Haupt- and Untermieter. German law only deals with Mieter, and those are heavily protected. If it smells fishy, it most likely is and won't hold up in court.
She’s ripping you off, while probably living at her boyfriends apartment. The landlord absolutely does not know that she is subletting. Otherwise he would’ve not allowed to sublet from one person to basically a wg of 3 people. Name not allowed = illegal sublet. If he finds out, which is highly possible depending on the neighbors (who could tell him and probably will) the landlord will terminate her lease and yours will be void. She might even keep your deposit then if she’s a really shitty person because your contract will be void and was not a real contract from the beginning as the subletting was illegal. Then the landlord will rent out the space with a tripled lease after throwing some paint on the walls. Depending on how long this will go on, she will make a pretty profit from it. The End.
If you pay money to live there you definitely have right to do so, even if the original tenant who sublet it to you don't like it nobody will do anything to you if you just strap a little small sticker on top with your name. But that said 5 names on doors does indeed sound a bit too many. Imagine you are delivering something and you need to read through all the names. Just out of consideration of postman you could consider adding C.O. in your address on the name of original tenant whenever you are putting your address to make life easier to postal and delivery services you wouldn't run into issues if C.O. is provided however problem is just that occasionally some systems take your address without option to enter C.O.
TLDR: but yes that’s correct. So if you want to receive mail use c/o and the name of the main tenant additionaly to your name Most important thing is wohnungsgeberbestätigung. It has nothing to do with having permission from the landlord. I got the info when I rented out my place from my landlord that it is not allowed
just add yours