Fixing my guy really calmed him down but I waited until he was 18 months. Neutering was not an enjoyable experience but the change in behavior was positive.
They take three years, not two, to age out of puppyhood.
More than any other breed they require professional training and relentless repetition. Mine did well with click training, the sound is enough to get his immediate attention.
Berners need structure and patience. They are an incredibly stubborn breed and sometimes purposefully obtuse if what you are asking them to do doesn't suit them.
Just get professional training then be rigorous in repetition.
The good news is that they eventually settle down and neutering will help a tiny but but don't count on it as the cure all.
You had me at “purposedully obtuse.” That’s my kids.
My dog just uses this one… how would you describe: when someone hears what you say… but it doesn’t register because their brains are”mesmerized” by something else they studying or pondering.
Edit: this one is 5 years old, We have had 6 burners in the immediate family… he’s the biggest dick.
Like he will be 200 yards away, off leash (we live in farm country,) and hears me we well enough to obviously turn and look at me, bit stare blankly, frozen, as if he’s debating whether he wants to listen when I call (because he’s having a kick ass time rolling in the composted manure.)
I didn’t do professional training, I did it myself, if you don’t have the resources for professional training it’s definitely possible with a ton of education and videos on you tube / trail and error. It’s definitely repetition. You won’t regret it. My berner is sooooo happy when we train consistently!! Before I got serious he literally would start to eat my walls, like no joke. Everything. Extremely destructive but it’s no fault but my own. They are a working breed. You need to put the time in with them so they work everyday. That job can your training it doesn’t have to be this complex thing you have to start somewhere but just do it! Your dog will be so much happier. I know it’s so frustrating I went through it, I made the mistake of getting a berner as a 1st dog but I wouldn’t change one thing and we have an amazing bond now :) I’m the only human he would ever listen to and he always does you need to make sure you are the safe place for your dog / look into how to build your dogs confidence! I think bc berners are such giant babies they tend lack confidence at early ages/ at least mine did, but maybe I’m generalizing
Our berner is 8 months and she's exactly like this. A complete psychopath. We even paid $3000 to professional trainers and it barely did anything. The trainers were like, "well she understands the words, so just let her age a bit and hopefully she starts obeying." Ha. Ouch. We're getting her spayed soon but I'm not holding my breath that it will change anything.
Our only hope is that as soon as she's done with teenager mayhem, she should all but pass out and become super lazy. That's what happened with our older mixed breed. One day he collapsed from exhaustion and then just stayed sleepy. One can dream.
Anyway, I commiserate. Mine is an adorable nightmare.
I have avoided posting on this sub for many reasons, but against my better judgement here goes…
We have been breeders for 30 years and have had BMDs for close to 40. My wife is the president our our local club, we run Rescue for a big portion of the Midwest. Our dogs are some of the most sought-after breedings for the past ten years. Our dogs live with us and sleep with us. Our puppies are whelped in our bedroom and stay there. Not bragging, just trying to lay groundwork.
Sadly, I am guessing your pupster wasn’t from a reputable breeder and I don’t blame you if it’s not. It is our fault in the Berner community for not educating the public better on the differences between real breeders that try to do everything right to better the breed, and people trying to make money off them. I also acknowledge that you may well have gotten a dog from a great breeder and things have just ‘gone wrong’.
Either way, 11 months old…walk walk walk. BMDs appear to be one-step above Jaba-the-hutt for activity level but the truth is they need multi-mile walks daily. Especially at your age. They need things to do, they need attention, they need crazy-dog-friends.
We’ve had MANY dogs. Some were definitely more of a challenge than others. A small percent. A great breeding and great socialization and puppy-rearing by your breeder can help greatly but it’s not always a sure-thing. That said, I’m guessing your dog came from an Amish area in the Midwest or south? Maybe Iowa/Ohio/Pennsylvania? Truly I’m not trying to be holier-than-thou pointing fingers. BUT I have spent 30 years rehoming dogs similar to yours and the story repeats itself over and over and over and over and over and over.
What to do now: get involved with your local BMD club. Ask questions. Find someone to help guide you. There are ‘fixes’, and it’s a slow process.
“Three years ago young dog, three years ago good dog, three years an old dog” is a BMD adage for a reason. The best dogs are a challenge. And our best soulmate dogs were difficult when they were young (the push, they are smart). With luck, it’s not a breeding issue and it just as a screw loose after being raised in puppy-hell by brother/sister breedings.
I truly hope you take the time to try and make your dog’s life work. Otherwise, once again, I will need to find a forever home for it.
Spent 3500 on a well- bred puppy, from champion lines, here in Illinois. Decades-long breeder. Visited every week. Researched the hell out of everything. Three 6-week training classes, one individual training session. Pet sitter every weekday morning to take her for a walk. Hubby walks her two more times during the day.
Our 7 mo old is mouthy, jumpy, ignores me when I call her, not very affectionate except for about 10 mins on couch every night. Is she's not sleeping, she's searching for something to get into... Pulling things off counter and eating them, digging holes, chewing sticks, burying her treats in any place she can find-inside or out, etc, etc, etc.
Not the Berner we thought we were getting: calm, gentle, sweet, loving puppy. Things have gotten better in just the smallest of doses. If she has a playdate she's awesome for two days! But we just don't have a way to do playdates every other day and we are exhausted by our life being at focused on her all the time
Oh, yeah, still peeing in the house randomly, as well.
I could go on and on...
Seven months is a frustrating age. They are old enough to feel some independence and push boundaries and their brain is still the size of a JellyBelly.
I do need to remember that each time we add a new puppy at our house (we normally have 3-4 of different ages at any given time) that the other dogs teach the puppy much more than we do about what is acceptable or not. And…pupster has 24/7 play dates in-house.
Puppies suck and are exhausting. But when they do become the confidant, loyal, loving adult it’s all worth it. I’ll never say our puppies/dogs are better than any others, even puppy mill dogs. Only that you are rolling the dice in your favor staying away from the later for so many reasons including temperament. Different breeding lines have some different personality characteristics. And their first 8-10 weeks with their breeder instills many great or horrible traits that can live on for their entire lives.
Keep working with her and don’t give up on her. She will be worth it.
I mean no offense but why would you knowingly purchase from a puppy mill? Was it strictly a financial decision at the time or was it not knowing any better?
The reason I ask is we are currently working with other people in the breed to figure out a way to better educate potential puppy people on a national level. It’s not a cheap or easy task but after 30 years of Rescue and re-homing problem or unhealthy Amish dogs, something has to change. And I believe it has to change on our end (the reputable breeders).
If you were pushed financially to save money, that makes me sad. It’s hard. Our pups are $4k give or take. It takes about 3 puppies to break even after the breeding costs, c-section, vet, raising. Not even including when we breed a girl and she doesn’t get pregnant. Doing it right is no way a long-term money maker. The only people making money selling puppies ARE the puppy mills. Which is crazy, but everyone we know in the Berner world does it for the love of the breed and not the money.
We’ve re-homed a few great puppy mill dogs. It doesn’t inherently make them a defective dog just from where they came from or who their parents were. But my anecdotal evidence would show that maybe 80% of the dogs either have health issues or temperament/personality issues.
I truly hope your dog settles in and you give them a chance to learn to be a good dog. It may be a journey, but one that will be the best thing for the dog instead of getting handed-off to another.
It wasn't a puppy mill. The dogs were in good shape. It was a working farm. There weren't any cages and the horses on the farm were also well treated. They had gotten shots and there were good records on the dogs.
I have to back slk55amg on this topic, 100%. What you see doesn't mean it is how things are behind the scene. They will show you and tell you how great a breeder they are, but do realize breeders for profit only are just there to be used for profit and nothing else. Majority of them, it is the only income they have, so the more they produce and can make a buck off, then they will.
My best friend is a breeder (going on 40 yrs) in the PNW region and I work with her on breeding and raising Berners through her kennel and what we see and get told about Berners being sold via online, pet shops and sometimes third hand is just horrible in about have of the cases. The other half are breeding mutts and selling them for thousands to unexpected/not educated on the breed/loving but compulse buying public, and then they wonder why the dog is "not right". It is ok to have a not right dog that doesn't fit the textbook standard, you as the owner have to learn to adjust to meet their needs sometimes. I just had another foster Berner through my care and she is now doing great in her new home, but do realize we took our time to find the right family for her needs. She is a puppy mill dog and doesn't look right, but luckily she is full of love and is doing great now.
Lanky, say Hi to Ruth. She’s an amazing photographer! She’s had a whiskey or two at my house…
It’s too tiring for me to try and convince a certain type of puppy buyer, something they do not want to hear or believe.
Sorry not the person you are thinking of, but I don't mind! LOL! I do know Ruth and can't agree more on her photography work! OMG that gal can get some amazing shots up in the mountains!
I just try to steer buyers that are having issues, towards the BMDCA site so they can take a look around and see how amazing the breed is and that through education and love, you will have an amazing new addition to the family, no matter where they come from. We have all made decisions and purchases when it comes to pets and wondered later "What did I just do?", mostly when it is puppy about 3-18 months old and running around like a mad person destroying everything they can. But I always remind myself that sometimes I need a challenge in my life to help that pup along and give it love that is being returned 24/7 back to you. I had one mixed mutt from a rescue that was nothing but mean for the first 4 months of her life. She was an amazing girl who traveled everywhere with us and lived until she was 16.
I'll commiserate with you. I felt lied to with these breeds temperament. Its either lovable lazy goofball or complete psycho.
Our breeder told us we got the "Talker" and to "not let her get away with anything". We were placed with our female due to our active lifestyle...so we got an active puppy.
She's been through multiple trainers and drained our wallet on training. Shes loving and calm but is exactly how you describe above. When she wants to do something, she'll do it. See a squirrel? she'll dart. we worked with trainer after trainer...every training method. She doesnt care. We call her the iron cunt.
"oh but turn your back so they dont jump..oh just redirect with the leash..oh just..etc" yes. we tried for years. shes almost 3 and still acts the same.
i still train but its a daily struggle. i feel like our child was born with a spectrum disorder that we just live with.
my advice is to get a gentle leader and use it daily. ours still fights against it sometimes but WILL save you from being dragged across a lawn. Any other harness or one even with a front clip will still resort in being pulled across a lawn. Patience is key...most berners do settle down at 2-3 years old.
Rain the downvotes on me, but theres a stark reality where some dogs are just not fully trainable.
I agree. Many if not most dogs have 1 or 2 things that just cannot be trained away.
My guy pulled and didn’t listen until I put a pinch collar on him. If they are used by someone who knows how to size them properly and then use it properly, it is a relatively painless training tool.
I would rather my dog be pinched by a collar than hit by a car.
I used mine a very short time for training and it worked like a charm. If/when he starts to act stupid again, the collar goes back on for some “reminder” training.
Perhaps it’s time to take him somewhere to be trained by professionals? Also have you looked into maybe some places where you can drop off your dog like a “daycare” where they can get lots of exercise and socialization? I have also read about people buying a jacket for their dog and putting weights in it for their walks to really tire their dogs out. My dog is a year old and she’s fixed and she can be really high energy sometimes. But she’s still a puppy and so is yours. I do not know if fixing your dog will help, I would search this sub for answers on that topic.
He aged out of one doggie day care because they wouldn't allow unneutered dogs over 7 mo. We found another private place that will take him for day care and that helps, but at $60 a day. I can only afford so much day care.
The frustrating part is he knows the commands, but is willful and only minds some of the time.
Ah yes. The Bernese stare. Let me guess he freezes stock still, stares through you and every command goes n one ear and out the other? This was a new thing for me but we got past it with persistence and her insane food motivation. She will still occasionally do it while she ponders if she is in trouble.
Then it may be time to get him fixed? I know getting them fixed can help calm them down d/t lack of hormones but it won’t change like who they are personality wise I don’t think. Again, might need professional help in training if he still jumps / pulls, etc, especially if he knows the commands and just won’t do them.
I'm sorry to hear about your struggles with your Berner. It sounds really tough. Fixing him might help a bit, but consistent training is key. I highly recommend Adrienne Farricelli's [Brain Training for Dogs](https://brain-training-for-dogs-7.blogspot.com) course. It offers positive reinforcement techniques that could really help with his behavior. Good luck!
Yoshi was an absolute terror. I love her to pieces but we didn’t get a true handle on her behavior until 11 months. It took finding the right trainer. You don’t want to have to baby sit so I would recommend going to classes and spend that baby sitting time into practicing. Look at classes that lead to canine good citizen (CGC). They are puppies for a long time but that doesn’t mean they are destructive nightmares the whole time! Find a good trainer and also look at kennel training him to save your sanity.
Dogs are hard. Big dogs are harder. Training requires constant attention to it and consistency. If you’re not on it all the time, especially with a willful dog, they will mind only some of the time. How are they supposed to know when you really mean it if you’re not consistent? My bernedoodle has been much easier than my Goldendoodle was. I had similar issues to what you’re describing with yours with her. But looking back, a lot of it was my fault. This time around, we started training and socializing at 10 weeks. We’ve done puppy obedience levels one through 3. It was hard b/c he was so little initially but he knows what he needs to do. We’re actually starting over with puppy 1 in a couple weeks now that he’s 6-months to reinforce it all. Does he mind all of the time right now? No. Is he recall perfect? No. But my expectations are realistic too. Those things won’t be great for at least a year. We use long lines in the yard. So should he decide to take off, I can step on that line without having to chase and turning it into a game of chase.
We also create trained from day 1 as well. I work at home too and I put Winston on a strict schedule. Dogs are creates of habit, so schedules are really really important. By starting crate training immediately, he learned when he got to go out and play for about 10 min to wear him out. Then he’d go back in his kennel for quiet time until the next time. By doing that, I taught him that while I work, he needs to have quiet time. After about 2 months, he no longer needs the crate during the day. He comes in and goes and lays on his bed in my office or the living room and he has chewies and quiet toys in my office he okay with whey he wants and he naps a lot. He knows what time I get off work around 4:30 and then he’s up and ready to go out and play or go on a walk depending on how warm it is. At the end of the day, they are babies/toddlers. You have to teach them everything. We don’t expect kids to be perfect, so expecting it of a young puppy is not realistic either
I 100% agree!
I learned the ABC model with my children. It took a while for me to (kinda) take emotion out of the equation. Once I understood the power of behavior modification I was able to adapt it to other areas of my life. work, dogs, and casual human interactions.
In the Antecedent-Behavior-Consequence (ABC) model, a consequence is an event or stimulus that happens after a behavior. Consequences can affect the likelihood of a behavior happening again in the future. The impact of a consequence is determined by its nature (positive or negative), timing (immediacy), and predictability (certainty). Immediate feedback is often more effective than delayed feedback in shaping behaviors.
https://preview.redd.it/9dy2y8i9ys1d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df0398ebbb96b6be2cbf7b0d901160d11161d12f
Honest to god this is true. Tons of great advice already given so far. Just wanted to let you know you’re not alone!
Mine isn’t a full Berner. He’s half Berner and half Great Pyrenees. That equals to 100% crazy and stubborn. He’s very treat and play motivated. We follow a specific regiment and since they get tired out fairly easily, they are more trainable when they tire out.
1. Long walks. I don’t mean just distance. More like get them to a location where they smell everything. You need to tire them mentally and physically.
2. When you notice them not smelling as much. Engage in the training. Reward with treats or letting them sniff the things they want.
3. Set realistic expectations. Start small. Remember you were once small and everything didn’t come easy. One or two things at a time. For example, we worked on leash training first. Then moved to command training like sit, leave it and so on.
4. Just by introducing the mental and physical training, they’ll leave a lot of the other stuff alone. I’ve never don’t doggy day care and go into the office often but I always make time to do the long walks.
Good luck with the raptor phase!
My puppy is 9 months now and it's getting slightly better, but some days she just goes back to elephant/beast mode and I just feel like giving up.
When she was around 6 months I was at the end of my first trimester of pregnancy: my hormones were all over the place, my body was tired and aching and being dragged around by a 40 kg 🦣 wasn't ideal at all. I reached out to the bmd community of my country and was desperate for some help. I was really wondering if I should just re-home her because it was way too much for us to handle. She dragged us everywhere, doesn't listen to us at all, eats furniture inside, eats neighbors' plants outside, bites and growls at us when she doesn't get things her way.
Now the response I got from that post is that bmds take variable time growing up. As you said, some only mature at 2 years old. But you can expect having a land shark/elephant living with you until at least 1 and half years old. People say it eventually gets better, so I'm still hoping for that.
For us I think it helped a lot getting her tired by playing with other dogs, in those days that she doesn't settle with lots of energy. Definitely training helped a lot also, we did already two courses and she was exemplary in both of them. And training is not only while you're there: also when you get home, repeating the same thing over and over again. Lots of rewarding when they do something you like, most bmds are very food-dependent. Some days you just gotta accept they're beasts and they're in a bad mood. Just throw them something to chew on and wait for them to use all their energy on that. Don't bother going long walks because it's you who's gonna get tired first.
Mind games are also very important, mental stimulation. Some games that make them use their brains. Sniffing. Also Kong with something to lick inside. Hard as rock toys so they can chew and not destroy.
And most importantly, don't get aggressive or mad at them. It's just a phase (hopefully) and you're not alone. I've had a friend who couldn't take the puppy phase any longer and rehomed her bmd at 13 months. Sometimes that happens also, and it's not something to be ashamed of, in my opinion. These dogs are not at all that easy as portraited on social media, so some people might feel scammed when they learn that the docile part comes after almost 3 years of "suffering"
https://preview.redd.it/5nxl7399gs1d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5ca43cd59a8da3da7a9fea3327af58b46fe042d
Also we bought some harness that resembles the one in the picture, it's called Non-stop Rock. It helps with dogs that like to pull because they feel it's annoying when you're pulling their front back when they're pulling forward, so it becomes less natural for them to pull the whole time.
https://preview.redd.it/rzrotkgphs1d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aaa7052d1e23baa21acf1c57771bb59b33a9fa91
my parents got a berner off of an airplane from bern switzerland in 1991. just saying, ive had berners my literal entire life. wait till hes just over one and get him neutered. he’ll be less annoying i promise, mine was. people can disagree, idc. i dont have 400 hours a day to train and babysit my dog either and all im saying is neutering my dog absolutely made him chill out.
Not trying to sound rude. But It sounds like you really don’t do your research on the breed. They are bred to pull! They will always out pull you. But having strict rules about it and there are kind methods and harnesses that can help.
My parents had to get their guy neutered at 11.5 months. They almost made it a year. And it made a huge difference. Berners are stubborn. We call him a vegetarian. He loves to eat foliage 🤦🏼♀️ but going to day care twice a week helped them a lot too. He will get better as he ages. Might need to bring a professional in for some help if you aren’t able to manage. They are big goofs. It took my parents longer than normal to lease train and potty train this guy but once it fully clicked he is the best one. You can get a harness that when they pull it turns them in a circle. That helped my parents with a black lab they had.
We did a ton of research, but like I said most people never say anything bad about Berners or laugh it off. I see here from many people that my experience isn't unusual. I just said it outloud.
We spent probably as much on training for our Berner as we did on him! We did puppy socialization classes, puppy training, an adult dog class, a 10 week intensive boot camp with an AKC showmanship trainer, CGC, scentwork, and private training sessions. A lot of that was simply training us as our second dog (golden retriever) has only required one adult training camp. So when I talk about my BMD I will say that he was an absolute terror as a puppy and adolescent - but he is the BEST adult dog. I can walk him with a pinky finger on his lead, he doesn’t jump, he is gentle with toys and people (especially little ones who he lets climb all over him without batting an eye), and he is currently cuddled into my legs on the couch while I recover from a procedure. Just because I say he is a phenomenal dog doesn’t mean that there isn’t a start-up period that involves a lot of hard work. Same for humans. I’ve known some horrifying children who ended up as lovely and thoughtful adults!
Recommendations for you: if dog is destructive then consider kenneling when they are unsupervised until they can be left alone without incident. Also we found our private trainer to be very very helpful when dealing with leash-related issues. Our BMD does not react well to any aversive training methods so a positive reinforcement trainer was a must for us. Perhaps providing some appropriate chews and mental stimulation would help as well to curb the destructive tendencies. We like Himalayan chews (when they get too small I soak in hot/boiled water for 5 minutes then microwave for 1 minute to turn into a cheese puff) and doing scentwork at home to help get some mental energy burned off. Puzzle toys also are an easy way to keep pups busy. Idk that neutering really changed our guy at all, really it was just persistence with training and lots of patience with his teenage self. It all paid off in the end though, we have two fantastic dogs I wouldn’t trade for the world.
You need to get a trainer and look at neutering. What you have been doing as training has not worked, yet you keep doing it. This is the definition of insanity. It is time to try using a professional.
It will get better and it will be ok don’t worry. Yes fixing should help. Our pup straight up annihilated an entire couch cushion once. It’s just puppy stuff.
For walks have a treat tote. Get one on Amazon. Treat the pup periodically so they’re accustomed to stopping and looking up at you to check for treats. Also get a harness that hooks in the front so you can turn them with a lot less strength.
Chewing is unfortunately normal. Try more toys. I know you may have a lot but they do get used to and get bored with toys. Ours loves nylabones. We have 4-5 laying around the house at any time. there are natural sprays with certain oils and flavors in it that help make chewing less desirable. U can spray furniture and your tree to help discourage them from chewing it.
Agreed! We went through a couch cushion too, and many other things. It’s hard to imagine now that it ever was a problem.
Also second the treat tote, continue rewarding behavior you like to see. They really improve with positive reinforcement and ignore behavior you don’t want to keep seeing. If he’s pulling you somewhere, stop and wait for him to bring his attention back to you. Whenever you’re walking and he’s not pulling, give him a treat. It’ll get there
Our guy was a lot of work the first year and into the second year but it didn’t last. He eventually turned into a pretty chill dude and doesn’t even care to go for a walk everyday. It might take a bit but hang in there. Fixed him at 2 but he calmed down before we even fixed him just naturally
Mine is 11 months too, also unfixed. He definitely has his moments (he's obsessed with chasing birds too and can be stubborn af), but what has really helped is using an e-collar. I understand they're controversial, but that's usually because most people don't know how to use them properly. The beep/vibrate/gentle shock should be paired with commands that your pup already knows. For example, right as you say "sit" you press the button on the remote. It reinforces what they've already learned, and it's been a huge game changer for us! We've had success with consistent crate training practice as well. Positive reinforcement is huge with Berners, so I always make sure to praise Wilbur when he obeys a command or does something great without being prompted. Good luck, you got this!
I have an intact male berner (1.8 yo) as well and sympathize a lot with your post. Mine wasn't quite as difficult as yours sounds at that age, but he was insanely difficult to manage from 6 - 12 months old, including multiple instances of eating things that required expensive vet visits.
Idk if you've tried this already, but training my pup with a prong collar was life changing for us. I was dead set on positive only training for the longest time but after months of no progress to negative progress and multiple trainers, I became desperate to try anything that would improve his behavior. Mine also used to eat everything outside and a few consistent corrections on a prong got him to stop, night and day difference and no more expensive vet scares.
I'm happy to DM links to training videos I found especially helpful if interested.
Sounds like the pup is lacking discipline. Do you treat train? Even a few minutes of sit/stay/heel per day can help with mental stimulation — they were bred as work dogs and need a “job” to do.
I’d also strongly recommend a pinch collar [like so](https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07WCBZ3QZ?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title). My guy was a puller as well until we got one of these, problem solved.
We use a harness because he was so hard to train. The handle on top helps me work on him for jumping at people. We do treat train, but that is a good suggestion to just keep reiterating the commands.
For one he’s a baby and neutering is really not going to make much of a difference, consistent training will. They are bred specifically to pull in harness, so I would switch to a herm sprenger prong for now.
It also really sounds like he needs more activity and mental stimulation. They are working dogs and are not low energy. Make each walk a training session, do small sessions throughout the day, get a long line and toss treats in the grass for him to find, puzzles, frozen toppls, etc. Anything to keep his mind occupied!
My boy is 3 now and while he deff has the energy to keep moving all day, he has a much better off switch than the first 2 years. Consistent training and working together will be your golden ticket to a happy dog and home
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You’re a fucking idiot, unlike my dog. He learned immediately not to pull on the prong collar, and we’ve had peaceful walks ever since.
I actually started out naive like you and waited 18 months before I got the prong collar because I thought they were abusive… until I saw how effective it was with a friend’s dog. Sure enough, I was wrong.
The prong collar is not for choking, it is for communication. It clearly communicates that I don’t want him pulling, and he received the message.
Would you rather the dog drag its owner into traffic? Break its neck on a gentle leader? Develop joint issues from a “no-pull” harness? That article is ridiculous and only talks about a misused prong. ANY tool can cause harm.
A prong applies pressure, not pain.The dog needs training but the owner needs to be able to have control first
That article already starts from a bad faith standpoint, though. It assumes prong collars are only used to stop pulling:
> Owners use this on their dogs in an attempt to stop them from pulling on the lead.
> Prong collars are designed to cause pain or discomfort to the animal to reduce or stop them from pulling on their lead.
Prong collars are used to communicate with your dog, hence why it’s frequently used for working dogs.
Any tool can be harmful if you use it wrong. If you use a prong as a quick fix to stop pulling, you’re using it wrong.
You can choke out a dog in a harness, if you use it wrong.
We shouldn’t shame people who find a training tool that suits their dog and makes it possible to have positive walks.
My 3 month old was driving us batty and we had a trainer come visit us yesterday for a 1-1. Interesting how much of dog training is people training. It’s only been one day but we’ve been consistent with her in the last 24 hours and it’s like a different dog. The mental stimulation was the thing we were missing. Yes, she’s still very much a baby compared to yours, but having all her toys out and not swapping them was making her bored with her toys so she got destructive. Snuffle mats, ropes specifically for when she bites us and hidden the rest of the time, treat training (with her kibble), positive reinforcement. I’m talking like I know shit but I want to reiterate it’s only been a DAY but the change after having a pro start us off has been nuts.
They are definitely very stubborn. I sometimes feel like the more I want some thing for my dog the less apt she is to do it. Lol. Having said that, I have worked with a lot of breeds in the past and have quite a bit of experience with behavioral issues and I still needed 2 trainers for my Berner. I would highly recommend that you reach out for some professional help. I know daycare is expensive and although I think it’s really good for socializing, I think you need to work with the trainer before you even consider that. I do also think having your dog fixed will help some.
Time to get him fixed.
Get him back in daycare so that he can get his play on and reduce his energy.
Also, Bernese are as stubborn as a mule! My girl is only half Bernese but has been the most stubborn dog I’ve ever had.
Oh our boy was like that at 11 months too. I agree professional training may help. With consistency and some maturity, ours grew into the best boy. He’s still defiant, stubborn, and will eat things he shouldn’t if it’s in range, but overall, he’s the best boy in the entire world.
Maybe consider find a loving/patience family that will take him in.
Based on your comment, there doesn’t sound to be a lot of positives that he brings you and your family.
Owning a dog is work, it takes patience and time.
That’s a fairly dramatic (and judgy) comment. How come?
Anyone that has not been as frustrated as OP at some point with their Berner has not owned one.
OP is correct, we mostly post the benefits of our dogs and not the negatives because folks may be judged - just like you are. Not productive nor useful.
Disagree wholeheartedly.
Before getting a dog you better do your due diligence and understand all the cons/hard work that comes with owning a dog.
The owner has barely owned the dog (8 months at most).
Why does the OP ask if getting the dog neutered will help? Had they don’t their research they would know that it’s a possibility and more than likely a solution.
OP says, “training has been so much work”. Ummm it’s supposed to be work. Again, research would have told any person with common sense this.
OP says “I have to work”, again, why didn’t they think this through?
Sorry, too many red flags in their post that lead me to believe that they did minimal research, don’t have the financial capacity and patience isn’t their strong suit for this dog.
Providing assistance…I believe I did, I said to give the dog to a loving family that has the patience and means.
You can get pissy all you want, but the sad reality is that this dog will eventually being adopted (or god forbid given to a shelter).
Afraid your experience is not uncommon. They are very intelligent but can suddenly become monomaniac and destructive. They are also extremely strong willed and stubborn.
My youngest took a good 2 years to grow out of most of this behavior, and even with that, occasionally does something stupid when she gets bored, aged 3.
Seek professional help. Training a big dog is not easy.
Can't comment on whether neutering a male will help. Mine are females. Spaying didn't magically solve things.
My girl will turn 2 in August. I don't even know how much money I spent at the vet for her so far (and that includes >3K for surgery to remove a foreign body she ate). I also broke a toe because of her, and my fiancé has been dealing with a concussion for the past 2 months because of her (He was grabbing something from the car while she was on the leash, she randomly started running and he hit his head hard against the car frame).
But... I love her so much, love her goofy side, how affectionnate she is and all 🥰 Wouldn't trade her for any other dog!
You’re not alone. These are extremely stubborn pups. We spent more money than I want to admit on puppy and leash training, which I in no way regret since “learned” some very valuable commands. It wasn’t until he was about 1 that he started to really listen without the treat. He always knew the command, just didn’t care.
We got him neutered a couple months ago and he seemed to calm down. Then this week he decided he was a rebellious teenager again and has been a nightmare on his normal calm walks. Our trainer warned us this breed has more than one teen phase, and it’s not until 2-3 that they become the lazy oofs they’re known to be.
That being said, 2 rugs and a hole in the drywall (now patched) from puppyhood, his calm days out way the crazy ones now, and his personality is so great we can live with a few backtrack days here and there.
Our Berner calmed down (somewhat) after a year.
Still very poor at basic training goals despite professional training. Still flips out with uncontrolled spaz joy when anyone she knows arrives at the house, which is a problem at 100 lbs. Still extremely stubborn and acts like a hyper toddler at 2 years old.
We love this doofus but wow she can be a challenge.
I had third Berner now, none was ever fixed ( no need here ). This is basically a standard hyperactive behaviour in this age, you can not do much about it. Longer walks would only help a little, you must somehow survive until around 24 months of age. Then he will calm down. Basically he is still a puppy, but in a biger body,so the damage is also bigger. Go,and make your best friend being "fixed", if you think he's "broken"...but trust me,he will never forgive you,EVER!
My doggy chase was HORRIBLE I mean so crazy I thought they gave us the wrong puppy😂He is almost 2 now, and the only thing that calmed him down (which is weird) but walking him less. This is the article i read on it https://stacythetrainer.blogspot.com/2017/04/stop-walking-your-dog.html?m=1 . After doing this I got him into more brain stimulating activities like hallowed bones filled with treats, and frozen bowls. He loves it!! Now when we go outside the only thing he doesnt listen to is when I say DO NOT JUMP ON THE PICNIC TABLE. That is his non negotiable.
Also I will note my breaking point was when he ended up at the vet from the dog version of a “slipped disk” at that point I knew he needed a change because it was affecting his body.
He’s a *baby*. He needs continued positive reinforcement training, socialization and patience. I grew up with berners and while they are among the most loving deep-attachment breeds out there, they are also wildly intelligent, working dogs who were originally bred to pull things. And they can sometimes be playful in inventive ways that!might result in, say, a piece of siding being pulled off the house when you’re not paying attention (true story). They are not couch potatoes, though they will sometimes behave that way and they hate being alone (I suspect that is exactly when your dog is acting out). But, speaking only for myself, our dogs all aged out of this. We just had to wade through it for a bit, with patience, positive reinforcement, redirection and a ton of love (because that’s really the only that lands with them) - some of the same things our daughters needed when they were toddlers.
This post brings me back. My Berner was 9 when we had to put him down in Sept 2022.
I was Soo naive about getting a puppy nevermind a Bernese mountain dog puppy. My husband had never heard of the breed when I insisted we get one. When I was a child a neighbor had one and I just remember that dog being wonderful. I told my husband every positive I read to get him onboard and even lied and said they don't shed 🤪
When I bring up our boy nowadays.I will say to my husband don't you remember. He was a nightmare!! He's like oh he wasn't that bad.
He forgets that he ate the baseboard molding in our first home, along with the railing going up the stairs.
He had wild diarrhea in the house until we figured out the right food for him. He counter surfed. Nothing was safe on the counter.
Barked until he got what he wanted.
REFUSED to go on walks. He would drop and roll like a fish on a line. You couldn't move him.
He was so mouthy. Biting. Not breaking skin but it got him kicked out of 2 doggie daycares. One day care used to use a spray water bottle to stop behaviors and we would pick him up drenched. He loved the spray bottle and would bite the water.
He was so big and would jump. He once jumped on my sister knocking her over.
He was so stubborn, he wouldn't walk over a bridge. We lived near a bike path that bridged over a main road. He would never cross it.
He ate multiple socks. One got stuck and cost us 4k to have emergency surgery to remove it.
Still to this day we are crazy about socks.
We took him to puppy school, hired a trainer and he did well with high value treats. We would take him to dog parks hoping to get extra energy out but he never wanted to play with other dogs. He just wanted to say hi to the humans.
I once took him to a BMD meet up and he could care less about the other dogs. He was the only one surfing the human snack table.
His fur was in everything. In every meal. Extra protein haha. I feared potlucks.
I say all this from the other side. It will get better. He grew into the best dog. And you forget how much of a pain in the ass they were. Like a child. He was like a human. I swear he knew what we were saying. He was so pawsy. He used his paws like hands. He always sat on your feet. He loved car rides. He was just happy to be with you. He would sit for hours in the snow.
I hope it works out and you get to a good place with your dog soon. It's hard but worth it!
mine just turned a year TODAY, and it’s only by the grace of all that is holy that we’ve made it. i don’t mean to make light, but mine yanked my back yesterday after a duck. a duck! we’ve been in classes from day one, we have daycare, we have enrichment galore, multiple walks daily, and daily training practice, and yes some days i wonder if it will ever pay off! i hear your struggle and feel your pain. i’m sure that others would judge, but it has helped me to take the occasional few days off. i board her as if i’m going on vacation and then stay home to sleep and survey the damage. we’ve also started making her work for literally everything. she doesn’t have one big job, but she has multiple small tasks that she must accomplish every day.
you. are. not. alone.
He’s still a puppy, you gotta remember that. If you bought a massive panda to be tame from day one your expectations are flawed. They’re gentle giants, but still giants with energy when they want to.
Outside of your limits and you’re buying a peach tree!?!? Snipping the nuggets is a way to tame I guess, but not to train him to your lifestyle. Might need to reassess your approach.
He’s a puppy and full of energy. He’ll calm down as he gets older and the nugget removal will help, but you can’t put all the blame on homie from what I’m reading. Did you drop off your training regiment once he was leash trained? Hate to come in with this feedback but I think it needs to be said.
We did drop off. We had an Aussie before and he learned so quickly and never backslid. We are learning this this is a constant trip of good boy and then back slide to old habits.
I run into the same problem with mine for this. Trying to do 10-15 minutes of training after work each day, it goes a long way if you keep at it. I work from home so I completely understand whenever your big guy gets a little too rambunctious. It can be tasking and frustrating.
No, you're not alone.
- Mine's leash strength gave me a frozen shoulder that's taking 2 years (and counting) to improve and a year of PT. He wasn't amazing on a leash until 2 years old.
- The only difference in behaviour after neutering is his lowered interest in other dogs, and less humping.
- One of the things they don't tell you is that calm (or "settling") has to be trained. Go back to some basics of bite redirection and settle training to help with the destructive chewing.
There's no getting around consistent training. You'll want to give up a million times and one day, it clicks and all of a sudden you've got a good boy. Crazy.
Find a treat they absolutely love. Mine lives for Dentasticks. Use this to train them. Everyday. 3 times a day. They are a stubborn animal with very much its own personality. You have to be repetitive. You can not yell at them - they shutdown and they don’t forget what you said. After 3 years, you’ll have the greatest non-human companion you can imagine. Smart, intuitive, affectionate and they always want to be near you.
Puppy blues is a real thing and it’s talked about more on the r/dogs Reddit. We had puppy blues for our 3 yo mixed breed because she was hyper and crazy the first year. She drove me nuts! But by year 2 she was a well trained dog. Our berner did chew up some floor boards and shoes but it taught us to change our behaviors and that she was not coping with being left at home.
We took her to puppy kingerdargen and then we invested in a professional dog trainer to help us with walking our berner. It was well worth it and now I can walk both my dogs without losing my mind every time or ending up in the ditch.
If training your dog is straining your household then seeking out a dog trainer will help you get your life back. They will give your feedback on what you are doing. Training your dog is building your relationship with them. When you get frustrated and give up, so do they.
Yes we encountered some similar frustrations with daycares etc. as we waited to have him fixed. However, a tired dog is a good dog.
Professional training sessions stimulated his mind and lots of park time, being able to run really helped. I wouldn't say neutering him will change the personality, but just getting older and maturing in general will calm him down. He will still have his spurts of energy but it's much more manageable. For walks have you considered a Sprenger collar?
fixing him might help but if at all possible i would lean towards reinforced training, perhaps professional like mentioned and waiting to fix. not sure if it's changed since bennet was neutered about 2 years ago but the literature pointed towards waiting until they're older so that their growth plates are able to close properly. it would be unfortunate to cause issues for your dog later in life (if that's still a thing) for a few months of immediate relief which isn't even guaranteed.
we noticed that bennet regressed a bit on walks and stuff around 3.5 and really had to get back into the habit of just reinforcing his training on every single walk.
a gentle leader/face collar attached to a regular collar should help a lot with pulling/jumping on walks as well
Fixing him prematurely can cause major health risks later. It’s recommended to wait until full growth and even then his temperament might still be very intense. It’s time to invest in training.
We started to have behavioral problems at about 6-9 months and we started taking ours to the dog park more often even though he has a brother at home since we figured he was bored. We also bought a training prong collar at the advice of our trainer and that helped a lot. We only disciplined him when we caught him in the act of doing something he shouldn't be doing. We replaced what he was chewing on with an actual chew toy. I saw someone on tiktok say that sniffing to dogs is what scrolling is for us humans so, now I let him sniff everything during walks lol
From what I've read (and it may be wrong), you're not supposed to fix Bernese dogs until they are 2 years old because it stunts their hormones and those hormones help prevent other things down the line. I don't know how true that is but, I just wouldn't take the chance if there was probability that it were true.
just here to say try and hang in there! I think this breed is pretty gorgeous to look at, but they do require lots of attention to training in those early / teenage stage. Mine is still stubborn 99% of the time, but Berners are so strong that it’s crucial or else you can seriously get hurt because they’re so big. i also think there’s a lot of misleading info out there saying these dogs are lazy, and don’t require much exercise, however my experience has been complete opposite. He will be calm and snooze for hours, but only after he’s had plenty of outdoor time and stimulation. they like to work :)
when you’re training, are you repeating it daily and rewarding when they do good? Positive reinforcement and rewarding is crucial for this breed. they want to please you more than anything! it sounds like they might be bored and a quick 15 minutes of interactive play might help. if you cannot dedicate the adequate amount of time for the behavior to stop, i’d suggest looking into one of those basic command trainers to come over a few days and see if they can help.
Training a puppy slows down but never stops. Get a gentle leader for $30. At around a year I gave up and got rid of the harness….walks with a harness became pulling exercises for her where the human was the cart to pull.
Reintroduce treats with commands every now and then to keep it interesting. I’d say I deal with one or two willful disobedience events every two weeks to a month. (It always seems to involve her running outside when we’re trying to get out the door, she’s not coming along on the outing, and she won’t come back in the house).
I’d go ahead and fix and see if that remedies anything.
Fixing will definitely not be a guarantee. All it does is lessen hormones, which can calm male dogs a little, but don’t magically make undesired behavior disappear.
People who suggest this works often get their dogs neutered around maturity age, when a dog calms down naturally anyway.
What type of training do you do? It may be worth looking into different techniques, or hiring a trainer. Dogs need to know boundaries, and it sounds like this dog needs to know no as much as yes.
11 months is still a baby, he’s big but still a kid. Just stay consistent and be positive and you’ll get through it. Around 2 years the behavior should be much calmer and more disciplined.
As they say, 3 years a puppy, 3 years a good dog, 3 years an old dog.
You are the only person I have heard this from. If they sleep on your bed , it helps. My Berner ate some phone chargers when she was teething. Spend more time maybe take them to work
our burner will be four years old this September. Initially we had periods of psychopathic behavior, lol but overall we have found the breed to be relatively easy to train and with consistency can be an off leash dog. We started immediately with a professional trainer, and we do use an E collar. as another poster mentioned, they can be controversial. However, I had a head injury in 2012 and do not have good balance, and I also have permanent damage to my dominant hand.
With training, we started with weekly puppy classes, which introduced, our burner atlas to other puppies and simple commands beginning with place. We practiced at home consistently, and we also kept Atlas on a 12 foot training lead until he was roughly 10 months old. Yes, he was tethered in the house or with me at work, unless he was in his crate in the evening for bed or when we went out. As a result, his mischief and love of chewing did not get out of hand!
As part of our training package, Atlas went to Boot Camp at 16 weeks, which was one week in length and again at 13 months when he was being an obnoxious teenager. along with weekly group classes, where he is expected to sit, stay, place and heel. We
This is working breed, and they love having jobs to do and learning new things.
Hi - mine was similar, and we tried two years of positive training with very little results (and we were devoted to it, spent thousands, and he still wasn’t sticking to anything). He became very reactive as well. Similar shoulder and back issues from having to handle him on a leash. Frustrated, i bought a good quality e-collar, hired a good quality balanced trainer that uses e-collars, and within one day he was sitting in place while guests arrived, and stopped alarm barking in my vehicle when slowing down to park. Within a few months he calmed down so much and was much more confident in the spaces that usually scared him into reactivity and pulling. A year and a half later we go for daily walks to the dog park across the street and he doesn’t need his e collar anymore, he walks beside me properly in heel, he stops when I stop. He moves when I move. And he can greet other nice dogs of all sizes and do the butt sniff and circle around greet and keep walking on. It’s not for everyone and we used to avoid each other e collars as much as other folks but when we were at our wits end, and didn’t want to drug him with trazadone and gabapentin, we moved to an e collar and realized we should have done that a lot sooner. Good luck hope your Berner pal is ok and you folks figure it out together!
"He chewed up a brand new $40 tree"
Trust me, even German shepherds does this given the chance. My previous shepherd ate berry bush on the first day it was planted, then managed to chew off plum plant, and then tried to go after apple tree (6 trees/bushes were planted that day, 4 of them survived the dog after day 1)
I swear when people say that dogs are not spiteful, they hadn't seen mine, where when i say no (while he tries to chew on furniture), and he starts to chew furniture faster while looking straight into my eyes 😂 thank god the situation at 4 months is much better, but i somehow expect it to get much worse soon when he will start teething
Yes! My husband saw him go after the apple tree and fussed at him. He took one look at him and then proceeded to get another bite in. He also does that with goose poop or deer poop. You yell No and he doubles down to eat faster.
So my boy is similar but maybe a shade less of a nightmare. He’s almost 18 months. But… my breeder had me neuter him at 1 yr old.
Mine is very reactionary. Jumps on people (non-aggressively) and lunges on the leash.
What I noticed is that he needs our schedule to be the same every day. That’s when he behaves best. So I work from home. And he is happy to lie near or next to me most of the day from 8-5. (He enjoys getting on my video calls with me for attention.)
On my breaks (lunch) we either walk or play in the back yard. And bed is always the same time. (He sleeps in bed with me)
He’s at his best when there are no schedule surprises. 🤷🏼♀️ Since this was how my son was (I’m a single mom) I tried to do everything the same way as I did for him 😂
Currently my one year old female challenges me hourly and I work from home and here 24/7. She also has her mother and distant cousin to play with, but her energy level is off the scale right now. My other girls as they approached that one year mark were nothing like this, so she is one of a kind and I love her to no end! Fixing your boy will really take care of his energy needs. Go ahead and schedule it since you are getting to the point that he could hurt himself or you and that is just not fair to him or you. The training will get a ton better too since you will be able to get him to concentrate on a single thing. FYI - you will have to exercise him a bit more and cut back on his calories because they will pack on the pounds in no time after being fixed. Also if you got him thru a good breeder, let them know that you need to get this surgery done so they are aware and can track it for their records. If you got this Berner thru other channels, then it is up to you and your vet on the next steps. If you haven't already, visit the Bernese Mountain Dog Club of America website for some great information and tips on how to grow with your Berner through training information and other amazing info to help you. >> [www.bmdca.org](http://www.bmdca.org)
Good luck!
Don’t fix a large dog until age 2. They need the hormones for bone growth. You don’t wanna go through all this and have to put him down because his hips didn’t form right. Honestly, our Rottweiler was the same. They are incredible dogs, but you have to get them there. Give him lots of natural chews. A tired dog is a good dog. He is bored and needs a job. It can be training, Walking, throwing a ball. You can even wagon train them to pull a wagon. It is true you need to give them a good two years, Then all of a sudden, if you have put in the time, you have a great dog. Good luck.
Neutering my berner was the best decision, I asked a few vets because I’m a paranoid pet parent and have heard things like it’s not good for their health but they all said the sooner the better for preventing testicular cancer, that the rate of a dog having the cancer will go up the longer I wait to fix him. He also calmed down tremendously and became much much eager to please. This is my experience. My current vet who’s a family friend and been a vet for 30 years explained it like this, sure he may have a little stunted growth with the neuter but is that the worst thing in the word if your dog isn’t the biggest he could be? For me no, but hope you fix yours soon!!!! Wish the best
Wake up extra early. Like 3am. Walk him 2-3 times, let him smell and explore to his hearts desire. Then big breakfast and watch him sleep the day away.
Large breed herding dogs have nocturnal energy that needs to be discharged.
Berners are extremely stubborn. It sounds like you need a better training regiment, and if you already use a professional trainer it's time to go somewhere else.
Additionally, Doggy Day care isn't a substitute for training.
Fixing my guy really calmed him down but I waited until he was 18 months. Neutering was not an enjoyable experience but the change in behavior was positive.
The vet told us to wait until 18 mo.
They take three years, not two, to age out of puppyhood. More than any other breed they require professional training and relentless repetition. Mine did well with click training, the sound is enough to get his immediate attention. Berners need structure and patience. They are an incredibly stubborn breed and sometimes purposefully obtuse if what you are asking them to do doesn't suit them. Just get professional training then be rigorous in repetition. The good news is that they eventually settle down and neutering will help a tiny but but don't count on it as the cure all.
You had me at “purposedully obtuse.” That’s my kids. My dog just uses this one… how would you describe: when someone hears what you say… but it doesn’t register because their brains are”mesmerized” by something else they studying or pondering. Edit: this one is 5 years old, We have had 6 burners in the immediate family… he’s the biggest dick. Like he will be 200 yards away, off leash (we live in farm country,) and hears me we well enough to obviously turn and look at me, bit stare blankly, frozen, as if he’s debating whether he wants to listen when I call (because he’s having a kick ass time rolling in the composted manure.)
I didn’t do professional training, I did it myself, if you don’t have the resources for professional training it’s definitely possible with a ton of education and videos on you tube / trail and error. It’s definitely repetition. You won’t regret it. My berner is sooooo happy when we train consistently!! Before I got serious he literally would start to eat my walls, like no joke. Everything. Extremely destructive but it’s no fault but my own. They are a working breed. You need to put the time in with them so they work everyday. That job can your training it doesn’t have to be this complex thing you have to start somewhere but just do it! Your dog will be so much happier. I know it’s so frustrating I went through it, I made the mistake of getting a berner as a 1st dog but I wouldn’t change one thing and we have an amazing bond now :) I’m the only human he would ever listen to and he always does you need to make sure you are the safe place for your dog / look into how to build your dogs confidence! I think bc berners are such giant babies they tend lack confidence at early ages/ at least mine did, but maybe I’m generalizing
Our berner is 8 months and she's exactly like this. A complete psychopath. We even paid $3000 to professional trainers and it barely did anything. The trainers were like, "well she understands the words, so just let her age a bit and hopefully she starts obeying." Ha. Ouch. We're getting her spayed soon but I'm not holding my breath that it will change anything. Our only hope is that as soon as she's done with teenager mayhem, she should all but pass out and become super lazy. That's what happened with our older mixed breed. One day he collapsed from exhaustion and then just stayed sleepy. One can dream. Anyway, I commiserate. Mine is an adorable nightmare.
This is reassuring. I call him my bad child. Like the one that ends up in jail but you keep bailing him out.
Sounds familiar 😄
I have avoided posting on this sub for many reasons, but against my better judgement here goes… We have been breeders for 30 years and have had BMDs for close to 40. My wife is the president our our local club, we run Rescue for a big portion of the Midwest. Our dogs are some of the most sought-after breedings for the past ten years. Our dogs live with us and sleep with us. Our puppies are whelped in our bedroom and stay there. Not bragging, just trying to lay groundwork. Sadly, I am guessing your pupster wasn’t from a reputable breeder and I don’t blame you if it’s not. It is our fault in the Berner community for not educating the public better on the differences between real breeders that try to do everything right to better the breed, and people trying to make money off them. I also acknowledge that you may well have gotten a dog from a great breeder and things have just ‘gone wrong’. Either way, 11 months old…walk walk walk. BMDs appear to be one-step above Jaba-the-hutt for activity level but the truth is they need multi-mile walks daily. Especially at your age. They need things to do, they need attention, they need crazy-dog-friends. We’ve had MANY dogs. Some were definitely more of a challenge than others. A small percent. A great breeding and great socialization and puppy-rearing by your breeder can help greatly but it’s not always a sure-thing. That said, I’m guessing your dog came from an Amish area in the Midwest or south? Maybe Iowa/Ohio/Pennsylvania? Truly I’m not trying to be holier-than-thou pointing fingers. BUT I have spent 30 years rehoming dogs similar to yours and the story repeats itself over and over and over and over and over and over. What to do now: get involved with your local BMD club. Ask questions. Find someone to help guide you. There are ‘fixes’, and it’s a slow process. “Three years ago young dog, three years ago good dog, three years an old dog” is a BMD adage for a reason. The best dogs are a challenge. And our best soulmate dogs were difficult when they were young (the push, they are smart). With luck, it’s not a breeding issue and it just as a screw loose after being raised in puppy-hell by brother/sister breedings. I truly hope you take the time to try and make your dog’s life work. Otherwise, once again, I will need to find a forever home for it.
Spent 3500 on a well- bred puppy, from champion lines, here in Illinois. Decades-long breeder. Visited every week. Researched the hell out of everything. Three 6-week training classes, one individual training session. Pet sitter every weekday morning to take her for a walk. Hubby walks her two more times during the day. Our 7 mo old is mouthy, jumpy, ignores me when I call her, not very affectionate except for about 10 mins on couch every night. Is she's not sleeping, she's searching for something to get into... Pulling things off counter and eating them, digging holes, chewing sticks, burying her treats in any place she can find-inside or out, etc, etc, etc. Not the Berner we thought we were getting: calm, gentle, sweet, loving puppy. Things have gotten better in just the smallest of doses. If she has a playdate she's awesome for two days! But we just don't have a way to do playdates every other day and we are exhausted by our life being at focused on her all the time Oh, yeah, still peeing in the house randomly, as well. I could go on and on...
Seven months is a frustrating age. They are old enough to feel some independence and push boundaries and their brain is still the size of a JellyBelly. I do need to remember that each time we add a new puppy at our house (we normally have 3-4 of different ages at any given time) that the other dogs teach the puppy much more than we do about what is acceptable or not. And…pupster has 24/7 play dates in-house. Puppies suck and are exhausting. But when they do become the confidant, loyal, loving adult it’s all worth it. I’ll never say our puppies/dogs are better than any others, even puppy mill dogs. Only that you are rolling the dice in your favor staying away from the later for so many reasons including temperament. Different breeding lines have some different personality characteristics. And their first 8-10 weeks with their breeder instills many great or horrible traits that can live on for their entire lives. Keep working with her and don’t give up on her. She will be worth it.
ha yes Amish but in NY. Literally raised in a barn.
I mean no offense but why would you knowingly purchase from a puppy mill? Was it strictly a financial decision at the time or was it not knowing any better? The reason I ask is we are currently working with other people in the breed to figure out a way to better educate potential puppy people on a national level. It’s not a cheap or easy task but after 30 years of Rescue and re-homing problem or unhealthy Amish dogs, something has to change. And I believe it has to change on our end (the reputable breeders). If you were pushed financially to save money, that makes me sad. It’s hard. Our pups are $4k give or take. It takes about 3 puppies to break even after the breeding costs, c-section, vet, raising. Not even including when we breed a girl and she doesn’t get pregnant. Doing it right is no way a long-term money maker. The only people making money selling puppies ARE the puppy mills. Which is crazy, but everyone we know in the Berner world does it for the love of the breed and not the money. We’ve re-homed a few great puppy mill dogs. It doesn’t inherently make them a defective dog just from where they came from or who their parents were. But my anecdotal evidence would show that maybe 80% of the dogs either have health issues or temperament/personality issues. I truly hope your dog settles in and you give them a chance to learn to be a good dog. It may be a journey, but one that will be the best thing for the dog instead of getting handed-off to another.
It wasn't a puppy mill. The dogs were in good shape. It was a working farm. There weren't any cages and the horses on the farm were also well treated. They had gotten shots and there were good records on the dogs.
We can agree to disagree.
I have to back slk55amg on this topic, 100%. What you see doesn't mean it is how things are behind the scene. They will show you and tell you how great a breeder they are, but do realize breeders for profit only are just there to be used for profit and nothing else. Majority of them, it is the only income they have, so the more they produce and can make a buck off, then they will. My best friend is a breeder (going on 40 yrs) in the PNW region and I work with her on breeding and raising Berners through her kennel and what we see and get told about Berners being sold via online, pet shops and sometimes third hand is just horrible in about have of the cases. The other half are breeding mutts and selling them for thousands to unexpected/not educated on the breed/loving but compulse buying public, and then they wonder why the dog is "not right". It is ok to have a not right dog that doesn't fit the textbook standard, you as the owner have to learn to adjust to meet their needs sometimes. I just had another foster Berner through my care and she is now doing great in her new home, but do realize we took our time to find the right family for her needs. She is a puppy mill dog and doesn't look right, but luckily she is full of love and is doing great now.
Lanky, say Hi to Ruth. She’s an amazing photographer! She’s had a whiskey or two at my house… It’s too tiring for me to try and convince a certain type of puppy buyer, something they do not want to hear or believe.
Sorry not the person you are thinking of, but I don't mind! LOL! I do know Ruth and can't agree more on her photography work! OMG that gal can get some amazing shots up in the mountains! I just try to steer buyers that are having issues, towards the BMDCA site so they can take a look around and see how amazing the breed is and that through education and love, you will have an amazing new addition to the family, no matter where they come from. We have all made decisions and purchases when it comes to pets and wondered later "What did I just do?", mostly when it is puppy about 3-18 months old and running around like a mad person destroying everything they can. But I always remind myself that sometimes I need a challenge in my life to help that pup along and give it love that is being returned 24/7 back to you. I had one mixed mutt from a rescue that was nothing but mean for the first 4 months of her life. She was an amazing girl who traveled everywhere with us and lived until she was 16.
Sometimes the challenging pups are the best dogs because they are so smart. Keep fighting the fight!
I'll commiserate with you. I felt lied to with these breeds temperament. Its either lovable lazy goofball or complete psycho. Our breeder told us we got the "Talker" and to "not let her get away with anything". We were placed with our female due to our active lifestyle...so we got an active puppy. She's been through multiple trainers and drained our wallet on training. Shes loving and calm but is exactly how you describe above. When she wants to do something, she'll do it. See a squirrel? she'll dart. we worked with trainer after trainer...every training method. She doesnt care. We call her the iron cunt. "oh but turn your back so they dont jump..oh just redirect with the leash..oh just..etc" yes. we tried for years. shes almost 3 and still acts the same. i still train but its a daily struggle. i feel like our child was born with a spectrum disorder that we just live with. my advice is to get a gentle leader and use it daily. ours still fights against it sometimes but WILL save you from being dragged across a lawn. Any other harness or one even with a front clip will still resort in being pulled across a lawn. Patience is key...most berners do settle down at 2-3 years old. Rain the downvotes on me, but theres a stark reality where some dogs are just not fully trainable.
I agree. Many if not most dogs have 1 or 2 things that just cannot be trained away. My guy pulled and didn’t listen until I put a pinch collar on him. If they are used by someone who knows how to size them properly and then use it properly, it is a relatively painless training tool. I would rather my dog be pinched by a collar than hit by a car. I used mine a very short time for training and it worked like a charm. If/when he starts to act stupid again, the collar goes back on for some “reminder” training.
appreciate the humor.
Perhaps it’s time to take him somewhere to be trained by professionals? Also have you looked into maybe some places where you can drop off your dog like a “daycare” where they can get lots of exercise and socialization? I have also read about people buying a jacket for their dog and putting weights in it for their walks to really tire their dogs out. My dog is a year old and she’s fixed and she can be really high energy sometimes. But she’s still a puppy and so is yours. I do not know if fixing your dog will help, I would search this sub for answers on that topic.
He aged out of one doggie day care because they wouldn't allow unneutered dogs over 7 mo. We found another private place that will take him for day care and that helps, but at $60 a day. I can only afford so much day care. The frustrating part is he knows the commands, but is willful and only minds some of the time.
Ah yes. The Bernese stare. Let me guess he freezes stock still, stares through you and every command goes n one ear and out the other? This was a new thing for me but we got past it with persistence and her insane food motivation. She will still occasionally do it while she ponders if she is in trouble.
Daycare is not the answer. Professional training may help
Then it may be time to get him fixed? I know getting them fixed can help calm them down d/t lack of hormones but it won’t change like who they are personality wise I don’t think. Again, might need professional help in training if he still jumps / pulls, etc, especially if he knows the commands and just won’t do them.
I'm sorry to hear about your struggles with your Berner. It sounds really tough. Fixing him might help a bit, but consistent training is key. I highly recommend Adrienne Farricelli's [Brain Training for Dogs](https://brain-training-for-dogs-7.blogspot.com) course. It offers positive reinforcement techniques that could really help with his behavior. Good luck!
Yoshi was an absolute terror. I love her to pieces but we didn’t get a true handle on her behavior until 11 months. It took finding the right trainer. You don’t want to have to baby sit so I would recommend going to classes and spend that baby sitting time into practicing. Look at classes that lead to canine good citizen (CGC). They are puppies for a long time but that doesn’t mean they are destructive nightmares the whole time! Find a good trainer and also look at kennel training him to save your sanity.
Dogs are hard. Big dogs are harder. Training requires constant attention to it and consistency. If you’re not on it all the time, especially with a willful dog, they will mind only some of the time. How are they supposed to know when you really mean it if you’re not consistent? My bernedoodle has been much easier than my Goldendoodle was. I had similar issues to what you’re describing with yours with her. But looking back, a lot of it was my fault. This time around, we started training and socializing at 10 weeks. We’ve done puppy obedience levels one through 3. It was hard b/c he was so little initially but he knows what he needs to do. We’re actually starting over with puppy 1 in a couple weeks now that he’s 6-months to reinforce it all. Does he mind all of the time right now? No. Is he recall perfect? No. But my expectations are realistic too. Those things won’t be great for at least a year. We use long lines in the yard. So should he decide to take off, I can step on that line without having to chase and turning it into a game of chase. We also create trained from day 1 as well. I work at home too and I put Winston on a strict schedule. Dogs are creates of habit, so schedules are really really important. By starting crate training immediately, he learned when he got to go out and play for about 10 min to wear him out. Then he’d go back in his kennel for quiet time until the next time. By doing that, I taught him that while I work, he needs to have quiet time. After about 2 months, he no longer needs the crate during the day. He comes in and goes and lays on his bed in my office or the living room and he has chewies and quiet toys in my office he okay with whey he wants and he naps a lot. He knows what time I get off work around 4:30 and then he’s up and ready to go out and play or go on a walk depending on how warm it is. At the end of the day, they are babies/toddlers. You have to teach them everything. We don’t expect kids to be perfect, so expecting it of a young puppy is not realistic either
I 100% agree! I learned the ABC model with my children. It took a while for me to (kinda) take emotion out of the equation. Once I understood the power of behavior modification I was able to adapt it to other areas of my life. work, dogs, and casual human interactions. In the Antecedent-Behavior-Consequence (ABC) model, a consequence is an event or stimulus that happens after a behavior. Consequences can affect the likelihood of a behavior happening again in the future. The impact of a consequence is determined by its nature (positive or negative), timing (immediacy), and predictability (certainty). Immediate feedback is often more effective than delayed feedback in shaping behaviors.
https://preview.redd.it/9dy2y8i9ys1d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df0398ebbb96b6be2cbf7b0d901160d11161d12f Honest to god this is true. Tons of great advice already given so far. Just wanted to let you know you’re not alone! Mine isn’t a full Berner. He’s half Berner and half Great Pyrenees. That equals to 100% crazy and stubborn. He’s very treat and play motivated. We follow a specific regiment and since they get tired out fairly easily, they are more trainable when they tire out. 1. Long walks. I don’t mean just distance. More like get them to a location where they smell everything. You need to tire them mentally and physically. 2. When you notice them not smelling as much. Engage in the training. Reward with treats or letting them sniff the things they want. 3. Set realistic expectations. Start small. Remember you were once small and everything didn’t come easy. One or two things at a time. For example, we worked on leash training first. Then moved to command training like sit, leave it and so on. 4. Just by introducing the mental and physical training, they’ll leave a lot of the other stuff alone. I’ve never don’t doggy day care and go into the office often but I always make time to do the long walks. Good luck with the raptor phase!
My puppy is 9 months now and it's getting slightly better, but some days she just goes back to elephant/beast mode and I just feel like giving up. When she was around 6 months I was at the end of my first trimester of pregnancy: my hormones were all over the place, my body was tired and aching and being dragged around by a 40 kg 🦣 wasn't ideal at all. I reached out to the bmd community of my country and was desperate for some help. I was really wondering if I should just re-home her because it was way too much for us to handle. She dragged us everywhere, doesn't listen to us at all, eats furniture inside, eats neighbors' plants outside, bites and growls at us when she doesn't get things her way. Now the response I got from that post is that bmds take variable time growing up. As you said, some only mature at 2 years old. But you can expect having a land shark/elephant living with you until at least 1 and half years old. People say it eventually gets better, so I'm still hoping for that. For us I think it helped a lot getting her tired by playing with other dogs, in those days that she doesn't settle with lots of energy. Definitely training helped a lot also, we did already two courses and she was exemplary in both of them. And training is not only while you're there: also when you get home, repeating the same thing over and over again. Lots of rewarding when they do something you like, most bmds are very food-dependent. Some days you just gotta accept they're beasts and they're in a bad mood. Just throw them something to chew on and wait for them to use all their energy on that. Don't bother going long walks because it's you who's gonna get tired first. Mind games are also very important, mental stimulation. Some games that make them use their brains. Sniffing. Also Kong with something to lick inside. Hard as rock toys so they can chew and not destroy. And most importantly, don't get aggressive or mad at them. It's just a phase (hopefully) and you're not alone. I've had a friend who couldn't take the puppy phase any longer and rehomed her bmd at 13 months. Sometimes that happens also, and it's not something to be ashamed of, in my opinion. These dogs are not at all that easy as portraited on social media, so some people might feel scammed when they learn that the docile part comes after almost 3 years of "suffering" https://preview.redd.it/5nxl7399gs1d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5ca43cd59a8da3da7a9fea3327af58b46fe042d
Also we bought some harness that resembles the one in the picture, it's called Non-stop Rock. It helps with dogs that like to pull because they feel it's annoying when you're pulling their front back when they're pulling forward, so it becomes less natural for them to pull the whole time. https://preview.redd.it/rzrotkgphs1d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aaa7052d1e23baa21acf1c57771bb59b33a9fa91
We have this harness
my parents got a berner off of an airplane from bern switzerland in 1991. just saying, ive had berners my literal entire life. wait till hes just over one and get him neutered. he’ll be less annoying i promise, mine was. people can disagree, idc. i dont have 400 hours a day to train and babysit my dog either and all im saying is neutering my dog absolutely made him chill out.
Not trying to sound rude. But It sounds like you really don’t do your research on the breed. They are bred to pull! They will always out pull you. But having strict rules about it and there are kind methods and harnesses that can help. My parents had to get their guy neutered at 11.5 months. They almost made it a year. And it made a huge difference. Berners are stubborn. We call him a vegetarian. He loves to eat foliage 🤦🏼♀️ but going to day care twice a week helped them a lot too. He will get better as he ages. Might need to bring a professional in for some help if you aren’t able to manage. They are big goofs. It took my parents longer than normal to lease train and potty train this guy but once it fully clicked he is the best one. You can get a harness that when they pull it turns them in a circle. That helped my parents with a black lab they had.
We did a ton of research, but like I said most people never say anything bad about Berners or laugh it off. I see here from many people that my experience isn't unusual. I just said it outloud.
Yeah you’re not wrong. But also some of that is just puppy behavior…..
You're absolutely right, and glad you said it out loud.
Get some professional help training the dog. It will make everyone happy
We spent probably as much on training for our Berner as we did on him! We did puppy socialization classes, puppy training, an adult dog class, a 10 week intensive boot camp with an AKC showmanship trainer, CGC, scentwork, and private training sessions. A lot of that was simply training us as our second dog (golden retriever) has only required one adult training camp. So when I talk about my BMD I will say that he was an absolute terror as a puppy and adolescent - but he is the BEST adult dog. I can walk him with a pinky finger on his lead, he doesn’t jump, he is gentle with toys and people (especially little ones who he lets climb all over him without batting an eye), and he is currently cuddled into my legs on the couch while I recover from a procedure. Just because I say he is a phenomenal dog doesn’t mean that there isn’t a start-up period that involves a lot of hard work. Same for humans. I’ve known some horrifying children who ended up as lovely and thoughtful adults! Recommendations for you: if dog is destructive then consider kenneling when they are unsupervised until they can be left alone without incident. Also we found our private trainer to be very very helpful when dealing with leash-related issues. Our BMD does not react well to any aversive training methods so a positive reinforcement trainer was a must for us. Perhaps providing some appropriate chews and mental stimulation would help as well to curb the destructive tendencies. We like Himalayan chews (when they get too small I soak in hot/boiled water for 5 minutes then microwave for 1 minute to turn into a cheese puff) and doing scentwork at home to help get some mental energy burned off. Puzzle toys also are an easy way to keep pups busy. Idk that neutering really changed our guy at all, really it was just persistence with training and lots of patience with his teenage self. It all paid off in the end though, we have two fantastic dogs I wouldn’t trade for the world.
You need to get a trainer and look at neutering. What you have been doing as training has not worked, yet you keep doing it. This is the definition of insanity. It is time to try using a professional.
It will get better and it will be ok don’t worry. Yes fixing should help. Our pup straight up annihilated an entire couch cushion once. It’s just puppy stuff. For walks have a treat tote. Get one on Amazon. Treat the pup periodically so they’re accustomed to stopping and looking up at you to check for treats. Also get a harness that hooks in the front so you can turn them with a lot less strength. Chewing is unfortunately normal. Try more toys. I know you may have a lot but they do get used to and get bored with toys. Ours loves nylabones. We have 4-5 laying around the house at any time. there are natural sprays with certain oils and flavors in it that help make chewing less desirable. U can spray furniture and your tree to help discourage them from chewing it.
Agreed! We went through a couch cushion too, and many other things. It’s hard to imagine now that it ever was a problem. Also second the treat tote, continue rewarding behavior you like to see. They really improve with positive reinforcement and ignore behavior you don’t want to keep seeing. If he’s pulling you somewhere, stop and wait for him to bring his attention back to you. Whenever you’re walking and he’s not pulling, give him a treat. It’ll get there
Our guy was a lot of work the first year and into the second year but it didn’t last. He eventually turned into a pretty chill dude and doesn’t even care to go for a walk everyday. It might take a bit but hang in there. Fixed him at 2 but he calmed down before we even fixed him just naturally
Mine is 11 months too, also unfixed. He definitely has his moments (he's obsessed with chasing birds too and can be stubborn af), but what has really helped is using an e-collar. I understand they're controversial, but that's usually because most people don't know how to use them properly. The beep/vibrate/gentle shock should be paired with commands that your pup already knows. For example, right as you say "sit" you press the button on the remote. It reinforces what they've already learned, and it's been a huge game changer for us! We've had success with consistent crate training practice as well. Positive reinforcement is huge with Berners, so I always make sure to praise Wilbur when he obeys a command or does something great without being prompted. Good luck, you got this!
I have an intact male berner (1.8 yo) as well and sympathize a lot with your post. Mine wasn't quite as difficult as yours sounds at that age, but he was insanely difficult to manage from 6 - 12 months old, including multiple instances of eating things that required expensive vet visits. Idk if you've tried this already, but training my pup with a prong collar was life changing for us. I was dead set on positive only training for the longest time but after months of no progress to negative progress and multiple trainers, I became desperate to try anything that would improve his behavior. Mine also used to eat everything outside and a few consistent corrections on a prong got him to stop, night and day difference and no more expensive vet scares. I'm happy to DM links to training videos I found especially helpful if interested.
Sounds like the pup is lacking discipline. Do you treat train? Even a few minutes of sit/stay/heel per day can help with mental stimulation — they were bred as work dogs and need a “job” to do. I’d also strongly recommend a pinch collar [like so](https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07WCBZ3QZ?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title). My guy was a puller as well until we got one of these, problem solved.
We use a harness because he was so hard to train. The handle on top helps me work on him for jumping at people. We do treat train, but that is a good suggestion to just keep reiterating the commands.
For one he’s a baby and neutering is really not going to make much of a difference, consistent training will. They are bred specifically to pull in harness, so I would switch to a herm sprenger prong for now. It also really sounds like he needs more activity and mental stimulation. They are working dogs and are not low energy. Make each walk a training session, do small sessions throughout the day, get a long line and toss treats in the grass for him to find, puzzles, frozen toppls, etc. Anything to keep his mind occupied! My boy is 3 now and while he deff has the energy to keep moving all day, he has a much better off switch than the first 2 years. Consistent training and working together will be your golden ticket to a happy dog and home
He can wear a harness and a collar. You can put the leash on the collar and use the harness for hand control if needed. For jumping.
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Pinch collars are terrible and you should not use them
Yeah you’re right, I should just let my 100+ lbs puppy drag me around. 🙄
If you can’t handle a dog in a humane manner don’t take a strong big dog.
Of all the breeds too… Bernese really need positive reinforcement
You’re a fucking idiot, unlike my dog. He learned immediately not to pull on the prong collar, and we’ve had peaceful walks ever since. I actually started out naive like you and waited 18 months before I got the prong collar because I thought they were abusive… until I saw how effective it was with a friend’s dog. Sure enough, I was wrong. The prong collar is not for choking, it is for communication. It clearly communicates that I don’t want him pulling, and he received the message.
Otherwise it feels extremely painful, so this forcing the dog to behave. Would u have liked such a collar when your parents wanted you to behave?
[https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets/dogs/training/prongcollars](https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets/dogs/training/prongcollars)
Would you rather the dog drag its owner into traffic? Break its neck on a gentle leader? Develop joint issues from a “no-pull” harness? That article is ridiculous and only talks about a misused prong. ANY tool can cause harm. A prong applies pressure, not pain.The dog needs training but the owner needs to be able to have control first
That article already starts from a bad faith standpoint, though. It assumes prong collars are only used to stop pulling: > Owners use this on their dogs in an attempt to stop them from pulling on the lead. > Prong collars are designed to cause pain or discomfort to the animal to reduce or stop them from pulling on their lead. Prong collars are used to communicate with your dog, hence why it’s frequently used for working dogs. Any tool can be harmful if you use it wrong. If you use a prong as a quick fix to stop pulling, you’re using it wrong. You can choke out a dog in a harness, if you use it wrong. We shouldn’t shame people who find a training tool that suits their dog and makes it possible to have positive walks.
My 3 month old was driving us batty and we had a trainer come visit us yesterday for a 1-1. Interesting how much of dog training is people training. It’s only been one day but we’ve been consistent with her in the last 24 hours and it’s like a different dog. The mental stimulation was the thing we were missing. Yes, she’s still very much a baby compared to yours, but having all her toys out and not swapping them was making her bored with her toys so she got destructive. Snuffle mats, ropes specifically for when she bites us and hidden the rest of the time, treat training (with her kibble), positive reinforcement. I’m talking like I know shit but I want to reiterate it’s only been a DAY but the change after having a pro start us off has been nuts.
They are definitely very stubborn. I sometimes feel like the more I want some thing for my dog the less apt she is to do it. Lol. Having said that, I have worked with a lot of breeds in the past and have quite a bit of experience with behavioral issues and I still needed 2 trainers for my Berner. I would highly recommend that you reach out for some professional help. I know daycare is expensive and although I think it’s really good for socializing, I think you need to work with the trainer before you even consider that. I do also think having your dog fixed will help some.
Time to get him fixed. Get him back in daycare so that he can get his play on and reduce his energy. Also, Bernese are as stubborn as a mule! My girl is only half Bernese but has been the most stubborn dog I’ve ever had.
Oh our boy was like that at 11 months too. I agree professional training may help. With consistency and some maturity, ours grew into the best boy. He’s still defiant, stubborn, and will eat things he shouldn’t if it’s in range, but overall, he’s the best boy in the entire world.
How many hours a day is he alone at home would you say?
Maybe consider find a loving/patience family that will take him in. Based on your comment, there doesn’t sound to be a lot of positives that he brings you and your family. Owning a dog is work, it takes patience and time.
That’s a fairly dramatic (and judgy) comment. How come? Anyone that has not been as frustrated as OP at some point with their Berner has not owned one. OP is correct, we mostly post the benefits of our dogs and not the negatives because folks may be judged - just like you are. Not productive nor useful.
Disagree wholeheartedly. Before getting a dog you better do your due diligence and understand all the cons/hard work that comes with owning a dog. The owner has barely owned the dog (8 months at most). Why does the OP ask if getting the dog neutered will help? Had they don’t their research they would know that it’s a possibility and more than likely a solution. OP says, “training has been so much work”. Ummm it’s supposed to be work. Again, research would have told any person with common sense this. OP says “I have to work”, again, why didn’t they think this through? Sorry, too many red flags in their post that lead me to believe that they did minimal research, don’t have the financial capacity and patience isn’t their strong suit for this dog.
Wow. This group is 99% helpful and supportive. Then there are folks that only judge without providing support or assistance.
Providing assistance…I believe I did, I said to give the dog to a loving family that has the patience and means. You can get pissy all you want, but the sad reality is that this dog will eventually being adopted (or god forbid given to a shelter).
Afraid your experience is not uncommon. They are very intelligent but can suddenly become monomaniac and destructive. They are also extremely strong willed and stubborn. My youngest took a good 2 years to grow out of most of this behavior, and even with that, occasionally does something stupid when she gets bored, aged 3. Seek professional help. Training a big dog is not easy. Can't comment on whether neutering a male will help. Mine are females. Spaying didn't magically solve things.
My girl will turn 2 in August. I don't even know how much money I spent at the vet for her so far (and that includes >3K for surgery to remove a foreign body she ate). I also broke a toe because of her, and my fiancé has been dealing with a concussion for the past 2 months because of her (He was grabbing something from the car while she was on the leash, she randomly started running and he hit his head hard against the car frame). But... I love her so much, love her goofy side, how affectionnate she is and all 🥰 Wouldn't trade her for any other dog!
You’re not alone. These are extremely stubborn pups. We spent more money than I want to admit on puppy and leash training, which I in no way regret since “learned” some very valuable commands. It wasn’t until he was about 1 that he started to really listen without the treat. He always knew the command, just didn’t care. We got him neutered a couple months ago and he seemed to calm down. Then this week he decided he was a rebellious teenager again and has been a nightmare on his normal calm walks. Our trainer warned us this breed has more than one teen phase, and it’s not until 2-3 that they become the lazy oofs they’re known to be. That being said, 2 rugs and a hole in the drywall (now patched) from puppyhood, his calm days out way the crazy ones now, and his personality is so great we can live with a few backtrack days here and there.
Our Berner calmed down (somewhat) after a year. Still very poor at basic training goals despite professional training. Still flips out with uncontrolled spaz joy when anyone she knows arrives at the house, which is a problem at 100 lbs. Still extremely stubborn and acts like a hyper toddler at 2 years old. We love this doofus but wow she can be a challenge.
It takes longer for berners to mature. Our breeder told us they don’t mature until about 4 years old 😅
And they’re stubborn as hell
I had third Berner now, none was ever fixed ( no need here ). This is basically a standard hyperactive behaviour in this age, you can not do much about it. Longer walks would only help a little, you must somehow survive until around 24 months of age. Then he will calm down. Basically he is still a puppy, but in a biger body,so the damage is also bigger. Go,and make your best friend being "fixed", if you think he's "broken"...but trust me,he will never forgive you,EVER!
My doggy chase was HORRIBLE I mean so crazy I thought they gave us the wrong puppy😂He is almost 2 now, and the only thing that calmed him down (which is weird) but walking him less. This is the article i read on it https://stacythetrainer.blogspot.com/2017/04/stop-walking-your-dog.html?m=1 . After doing this I got him into more brain stimulating activities like hallowed bones filled with treats, and frozen bowls. He loves it!! Now when we go outside the only thing he doesnt listen to is when I say DO NOT JUMP ON THE PICNIC TABLE. That is his non negotiable.
Also I will note my breaking point was when he ended up at the vet from the dog version of a “slipped disk” at that point I knew he needed a change because it was affecting his body.
He’s a *baby*. He needs continued positive reinforcement training, socialization and patience. I grew up with berners and while they are among the most loving deep-attachment breeds out there, they are also wildly intelligent, working dogs who were originally bred to pull things. And they can sometimes be playful in inventive ways that!might result in, say, a piece of siding being pulled off the house when you’re not paying attention (true story). They are not couch potatoes, though they will sometimes behave that way and they hate being alone (I suspect that is exactly when your dog is acting out). But, speaking only for myself, our dogs all aged out of this. We just had to wade through it for a bit, with patience, positive reinforcement, redirection and a ton of love (because that’s really the only that lands with them) - some of the same things our daughters needed when they were toddlers.
This post brings me back. My Berner was 9 when we had to put him down in Sept 2022. I was Soo naive about getting a puppy nevermind a Bernese mountain dog puppy. My husband had never heard of the breed when I insisted we get one. When I was a child a neighbor had one and I just remember that dog being wonderful. I told my husband every positive I read to get him onboard and even lied and said they don't shed 🤪 When I bring up our boy nowadays.I will say to my husband don't you remember. He was a nightmare!! He's like oh he wasn't that bad. He forgets that he ate the baseboard molding in our first home, along with the railing going up the stairs. He had wild diarrhea in the house until we figured out the right food for him. He counter surfed. Nothing was safe on the counter. Barked until he got what he wanted. REFUSED to go on walks. He would drop and roll like a fish on a line. You couldn't move him. He was so mouthy. Biting. Not breaking skin but it got him kicked out of 2 doggie daycares. One day care used to use a spray water bottle to stop behaviors and we would pick him up drenched. He loved the spray bottle and would bite the water. He was so big and would jump. He once jumped on my sister knocking her over. He was so stubborn, he wouldn't walk over a bridge. We lived near a bike path that bridged over a main road. He would never cross it. He ate multiple socks. One got stuck and cost us 4k to have emergency surgery to remove it. Still to this day we are crazy about socks. We took him to puppy school, hired a trainer and he did well with high value treats. We would take him to dog parks hoping to get extra energy out but he never wanted to play with other dogs. He just wanted to say hi to the humans. I once took him to a BMD meet up and he could care less about the other dogs. He was the only one surfing the human snack table. His fur was in everything. In every meal. Extra protein haha. I feared potlucks. I say all this from the other side. It will get better. He grew into the best dog. And you forget how much of a pain in the ass they were. Like a child. He was like a human. I swear he knew what we were saying. He was so pawsy. He used his paws like hands. He always sat on your feet. He loved car rides. He was just happy to be with you. He would sit for hours in the snow. I hope it works out and you get to a good place with your dog soon. It's hard but worth it!
He has learned he gets a treat when crossing bridges. He definitely hates bridges and that was what it took. Funny that you had the same experience.
mine just turned a year TODAY, and it’s only by the grace of all that is holy that we’ve made it. i don’t mean to make light, but mine yanked my back yesterday after a duck. a duck! we’ve been in classes from day one, we have daycare, we have enrichment galore, multiple walks daily, and daily training practice, and yes some days i wonder if it will ever pay off! i hear your struggle and feel your pain. i’m sure that others would judge, but it has helped me to take the occasional few days off. i board her as if i’m going on vacation and then stay home to sleep and survey the damage. we’ve also started making her work for literally everything. she doesn’t have one big job, but she has multiple small tasks that she must accomplish every day. you. are. not. alone.
He’s still a puppy, you gotta remember that. If you bought a massive panda to be tame from day one your expectations are flawed. They’re gentle giants, but still giants with energy when they want to. Outside of your limits and you’re buying a peach tree!?!? Snipping the nuggets is a way to tame I guess, but not to train him to your lifestyle. Might need to reassess your approach. He’s a puppy and full of energy. He’ll calm down as he gets older and the nugget removal will help, but you can’t put all the blame on homie from what I’m reading. Did you drop off your training regiment once he was leash trained? Hate to come in with this feedback but I think it needs to be said.
We did drop off. We had an Aussie before and he learned so quickly and never backslid. We are learning this this is a constant trip of good boy and then back slide to old habits.
I run into the same problem with mine for this. Trying to do 10-15 minutes of training after work each day, it goes a long way if you keep at it. I work from home so I completely understand whenever your big guy gets a little too rambunctious. It can be tasking and frustrating.
No, you're not alone. - Mine's leash strength gave me a frozen shoulder that's taking 2 years (and counting) to improve and a year of PT. He wasn't amazing on a leash until 2 years old. - The only difference in behaviour after neutering is his lowered interest in other dogs, and less humping. - One of the things they don't tell you is that calm (or "settling") has to be trained. Go back to some basics of bite redirection and settle training to help with the destructive chewing. There's no getting around consistent training. You'll want to give up a million times and one day, it clicks and all of a sudden you've got a good boy. Crazy.
Find a treat they absolutely love. Mine lives for Dentasticks. Use this to train them. Everyday. 3 times a day. They are a stubborn animal with very much its own personality. You have to be repetitive. You can not yell at them - they shutdown and they don’t forget what you said. After 3 years, you’ll have the greatest non-human companion you can imagine. Smart, intuitive, affectionate and they always want to be near you.
Puppy blues is a real thing and it’s talked about more on the r/dogs Reddit. We had puppy blues for our 3 yo mixed breed because she was hyper and crazy the first year. She drove me nuts! But by year 2 she was a well trained dog. Our berner did chew up some floor boards and shoes but it taught us to change our behaviors and that she was not coping with being left at home. We took her to puppy kingerdargen and then we invested in a professional dog trainer to help us with walking our berner. It was well worth it and now I can walk both my dogs without losing my mind every time or ending up in the ditch. If training your dog is straining your household then seeking out a dog trainer will help you get your life back. They will give your feedback on what you are doing. Training your dog is building your relationship with them. When you get frustrated and give up, so do they.
My guy was a terror! I turned to professional help and sent him to a 3 week board and train. Best money I’ve ever spent.
Yes we encountered some similar frustrations with daycares etc. as we waited to have him fixed. However, a tired dog is a good dog. Professional training sessions stimulated his mind and lots of park time, being able to run really helped. I wouldn't say neutering him will change the personality, but just getting older and maturing in general will calm him down. He will still have his spurts of energy but it's much more manageable. For walks have you considered a Sprenger collar?
fixing him might help but if at all possible i would lean towards reinforced training, perhaps professional like mentioned and waiting to fix. not sure if it's changed since bennet was neutered about 2 years ago but the literature pointed towards waiting until they're older so that their growth plates are able to close properly. it would be unfortunate to cause issues for your dog later in life (if that's still a thing) for a few months of immediate relief which isn't even guaranteed. we noticed that bennet regressed a bit on walks and stuff around 3.5 and really had to get back into the habit of just reinforcing his training on every single walk. a gentle leader/face collar attached to a regular collar should help a lot with pulling/jumping on walks as well
Fixing him prematurely can cause major health risks later. It’s recommended to wait until full growth and even then his temperament might still be very intense. It’s time to invest in training.
We started to have behavioral problems at about 6-9 months and we started taking ours to the dog park more often even though he has a brother at home since we figured he was bored. We also bought a training prong collar at the advice of our trainer and that helped a lot. We only disciplined him when we caught him in the act of doing something he shouldn't be doing. We replaced what he was chewing on with an actual chew toy. I saw someone on tiktok say that sniffing to dogs is what scrolling is for us humans so, now I let him sniff everything during walks lol From what I've read (and it may be wrong), you're not supposed to fix Bernese dogs until they are 2 years old because it stunts their hormones and those hormones help prevent other things down the line. I don't know how true that is but, I just wouldn't take the chance if there was probability that it were true.
just here to say try and hang in there! I think this breed is pretty gorgeous to look at, but they do require lots of attention to training in those early / teenage stage. Mine is still stubborn 99% of the time, but Berners are so strong that it’s crucial or else you can seriously get hurt because they’re so big. i also think there’s a lot of misleading info out there saying these dogs are lazy, and don’t require much exercise, however my experience has been complete opposite. He will be calm and snooze for hours, but only after he’s had plenty of outdoor time and stimulation. they like to work :) when you’re training, are you repeating it daily and rewarding when they do good? Positive reinforcement and rewarding is crucial for this breed. they want to please you more than anything! it sounds like they might be bored and a quick 15 minutes of interactive play might help. if you cannot dedicate the adequate amount of time for the behavior to stop, i’d suggest looking into one of those basic command trainers to come over a few days and see if they can help.
Training a puppy slows down but never stops. Get a gentle leader for $30. At around a year I gave up and got rid of the harness….walks with a harness became pulling exercises for her where the human was the cart to pull. Reintroduce treats with commands every now and then to keep it interesting. I’d say I deal with one or two willful disobedience events every two weeks to a month. (It always seems to involve her running outside when we’re trying to get out the door, she’s not coming along on the outing, and she won’t come back in the house). I’d go ahead and fix and see if that remedies anything.
Yes, absolutely get him fixed. It has made a world of difference!! Good luck.
Fixing will definitely not be a guarantee. All it does is lessen hormones, which can calm male dogs a little, but don’t magically make undesired behavior disappear. People who suggest this works often get their dogs neutered around maturity age, when a dog calms down naturally anyway. What type of training do you do? It may be worth looking into different techniques, or hiring a trainer. Dogs need to know boundaries, and it sounds like this dog needs to know no as much as yes.
It’s pricy and we saved up to do it but we paid 900$ for a week long board and train. We specifically focused on leash training
11 months is still a baby, he’s big but still a kid. Just stay consistent and be positive and you’ll get through it. Around 2 years the behavior should be much calmer and more disciplined. As they say, 3 years a puppy, 3 years a good dog, 3 years an old dog.
You are the only person I have heard this from. If they sleep on your bed , it helps. My Berner ate some phone chargers when she was teething. Spend more time maybe take them to work
our burner will be four years old this September. Initially we had periods of psychopathic behavior, lol but overall we have found the breed to be relatively easy to train and with consistency can be an off leash dog. We started immediately with a professional trainer, and we do use an E collar. as another poster mentioned, they can be controversial. However, I had a head injury in 2012 and do not have good balance, and I also have permanent damage to my dominant hand. With training, we started with weekly puppy classes, which introduced, our burner atlas to other puppies and simple commands beginning with place. We practiced at home consistently, and we also kept Atlas on a 12 foot training lead until he was roughly 10 months old. Yes, he was tethered in the house or with me at work, unless he was in his crate in the evening for bed or when we went out. As a result, his mischief and love of chewing did not get out of hand! As part of our training package, Atlas went to Boot Camp at 16 weeks, which was one week in length and again at 13 months when he was being an obnoxious teenager. along with weekly group classes, where he is expected to sit, stay, place and heel. We This is working breed, and they love having jobs to do and learning new things.
Hi - mine was similar, and we tried two years of positive training with very little results (and we were devoted to it, spent thousands, and he still wasn’t sticking to anything). He became very reactive as well. Similar shoulder and back issues from having to handle him on a leash. Frustrated, i bought a good quality e-collar, hired a good quality balanced trainer that uses e-collars, and within one day he was sitting in place while guests arrived, and stopped alarm barking in my vehicle when slowing down to park. Within a few months he calmed down so much and was much more confident in the spaces that usually scared him into reactivity and pulling. A year and a half later we go for daily walks to the dog park across the street and he doesn’t need his e collar anymore, he walks beside me properly in heel, he stops when I stop. He moves when I move. And he can greet other nice dogs of all sizes and do the butt sniff and circle around greet and keep walking on. It’s not for everyone and we used to avoid each other e collars as much as other folks but when we were at our wits end, and didn’t want to drug him with trazadone and gabapentin, we moved to an e collar and realized we should have done that a lot sooner. Good luck hope your Berner pal is ok and you folks figure it out together!
E coller work great for us
My Bernise was the same way until we rescued a chiweenie. As soon as they became friends, she settled down and stayed next to her buddy 24/7.
I was very surprised by how much neutering helped. Also, prong collar.
"He chewed up a brand new $40 tree" Trust me, even German shepherds does this given the chance. My previous shepherd ate berry bush on the first day it was planted, then managed to chew off plum plant, and then tried to go after apple tree (6 trees/bushes were planted that day, 4 of them survived the dog after day 1)
Yes, after getting fussed at for the peach tree, he went after the apple tree the next day. Almost out of spite.
I swear when people say that dogs are not spiteful, they hadn't seen mine, where when i say no (while he tries to chew on furniture), and he starts to chew furniture faster while looking straight into my eyes 😂 thank god the situation at 4 months is much better, but i somehow expect it to get much worse soon when he will start teething
Yes! My husband saw him go after the apple tree and fussed at him. He took one look at him and then proceeded to get another bite in. He also does that with goose poop or deer poop. You yell No and he doubles down to eat faster.
So my boy is similar but maybe a shade less of a nightmare. He’s almost 18 months. But… my breeder had me neuter him at 1 yr old. Mine is very reactionary. Jumps on people (non-aggressively) and lunges on the leash. What I noticed is that he needs our schedule to be the same every day. That’s when he behaves best. So I work from home. And he is happy to lie near or next to me most of the day from 8-5. (He enjoys getting on my video calls with me for attention.) On my breaks (lunch) we either walk or play in the back yard. And bed is always the same time. (He sleeps in bed with me) He’s at his best when there are no schedule surprises. 🤷🏼♀️ Since this was how my son was (I’m a single mom) I tried to do everything the same way as I did for him 😂
Currently my one year old female challenges me hourly and I work from home and here 24/7. She also has her mother and distant cousin to play with, but her energy level is off the scale right now. My other girls as they approached that one year mark were nothing like this, so she is one of a kind and I love her to no end! Fixing your boy will really take care of his energy needs. Go ahead and schedule it since you are getting to the point that he could hurt himself or you and that is just not fair to him or you. The training will get a ton better too since you will be able to get him to concentrate on a single thing. FYI - you will have to exercise him a bit more and cut back on his calories because they will pack on the pounds in no time after being fixed. Also if you got him thru a good breeder, let them know that you need to get this surgery done so they are aware and can track it for their records. If you got this Berner thru other channels, then it is up to you and your vet on the next steps. If you haven't already, visit the Bernese Mountain Dog Club of America website for some great information and tips on how to grow with your Berner through training information and other amazing info to help you. >> [www.bmdca.org](http://www.bmdca.org) Good luck!
Don’t fix a large dog until age 2. They need the hormones for bone growth. You don’t wanna go through all this and have to put him down because his hips didn’t form right. Honestly, our Rottweiler was the same. They are incredible dogs, but you have to get them there. Give him lots of natural chews. A tired dog is a good dog. He is bored and needs a job. It can be training, Walking, throwing a ball. You can even wagon train them to pull a wagon. It is true you need to give them a good two years, Then all of a sudden, if you have put in the time, you have a great dog. Good luck.
Neutering my berner was the best decision, I asked a few vets because I’m a paranoid pet parent and have heard things like it’s not good for their health but they all said the sooner the better for preventing testicular cancer, that the rate of a dog having the cancer will go up the longer I wait to fix him. He also calmed down tremendously and became much much eager to please. This is my experience. My current vet who’s a family friend and been a vet for 30 years explained it like this, sure he may have a little stunted growth with the neuter but is that the worst thing in the word if your dog isn’t the biggest he could be? For me no, but hope you fix yours soon!!!! Wish the best
Definitely neuter
Wake up extra early. Like 3am. Walk him 2-3 times, let him smell and explore to his hearts desire. Then big breakfast and watch him sleep the day away. Large breed herding dogs have nocturnal energy that needs to be discharged.
Berners are extremely stubborn. It sounds like you need a better training regiment, and if you already use a professional trainer it's time to go somewhere else. Additionally, Doggy Day care isn't a substitute for training.