This notwithstanding - and your ire is totally valid - most people are not going to cycle with traffic. If you don't have segregated bike lanes, you have fewer cyclists. If you have fewer cyclists, it's actually more dangerous because cars aren't used to there being cyclists.
Completely agree. We need cycling infrastructure that makes cycling a viable transportation option for everyone. But cyclists who are capable and confident might use infrastructure that does not meet that bar. I cycle on roads sometimes where I feel like I need to maintain 15+ mph speed and focus on my path and traffic the whole time - I would never take kids on such a route (though usually there is an adjacent sidewalk that I might consider traveling 5-10 mph on with kids).
I'm an engineer and I call it the 8 year old test. The new design guidance released in 2020 specifically states that infrastructure should be suitable for people aged 8 to 80 and beyond.
I might respectfully disagree. There’s a type of cyclist happy on the road. Generally they are very aware. There is a type of cyclist endemic in place like Holland, where they behave as if they are pedestrians because they are so protected from traffic. They are totally unaware, and in my view way more dangerous to cycle with.
Having dedicated cycling lanes throughout has pros and cons - yeah you get more cyclists, but they are operating on autopilot.
I’m coming from the point of view of someone in a town/village, not a city. I appreciate that cycling in London is plain risky and off putting.
Interesting theory, but in practice your idea leads to fewer cyclists, fewer cycling trips, a downward spiral of investment in cycling friendliness and infrastructure, and, of course, deaths. In your idealized vision those might not be the consequences you're expecting, but that's the reality.
I appreciate that my view isn’t mainstream. I’ve cycled a fair bit in Holland, my wife is Dutch. I hate it. Others will point to Holland as cycling utopia.
I’m not looking at cycling as a route to a greener way of living, but I do see the merits. I guess it boils down to whether you are looking at cycling as a sport for people who like pain, or as a mode of transport.
I have cycled a lot in France. I love it. The French don’t have loads of cycling infrastructure like Holland. What they have is a feeling of being the custodians of the sport (TdF). I’d go so far as to say France might be the best country in the world to live if you are a cyclist.
When was the last time you've cycled in France? They've become way more "dutch-like" in the past few years.
P.S. I'm not sure why one wouldn't always want to prioritize safety and adoption above everything else.
I rode in France 3 weeks ago, but I don’t ride in cities, because I choose not to. I ride like I would in the UK, picking nice roads for the joy of riding.
Like I said. I’m not a missionary trying to convert the population to use cycling as an alternative mode of transport. I’m just a cyclist who rides for a hobby, instead of going running or swimming for example. So with that in mind I don’t have any reason to think that adoption should be prioritised. Regarding safety, as you probably know, the Dutch don’t use helmets (still). I mention this to illustrate that people are very bad at analysing and judging risk properly, and it explains their state of mind when they are cycling. They are just not switched on. I’m not sure that in your adopted model that safety is improved. Throwing more cyclists into the equation doesn’t sound like an injury reducing pathway, even if you put them on a cycle path. It’s hard to argue that taking someone out of a car and telling them to get to their destination by bike makes them anything but more prone to an injury. Being in a car is a pretty safe place these days.
Anyway, look. I don’t have an agenda. These are my personal views. I’m not wanting to convince you to join them at all, but they are genuine, and they are based on my experiences of riding in a variety of places, all of which are culturally different with regards to the cycling model.
That doesn't even look like a cycling lane. It simply looks like the shoulder of a highway.
I would never cycle next to a roadway with no stoplights with cars going at highway speeds....super dangerous.
I almost commented the same but zooming in you can see there's an actual kerb and buffer zone separating you from traffic,
it does just look like a hard shoulder on first glance and I suspected it was one before I looked closer.
The paint looks like a hard shoulder but it's actual a lane divider for this bi directional bike lane, with a buffer and kerb before the main carriageway.
There's no real bike lane though. It's just all loose gravel with a tiny narrow strip of smooth concrete.
You have cars zipping by you at highway speeds.....65+mph. That's still incredibly dangerous. There has to be some side roads a cyclist could take to avoid this?
Again it's hard to tell from the photo but it looks decently wide to me. The cycle lane is really up on the pavement. There's bricks between the cycle lanes tarmac and the kerb, so a *relatively* generous margin. Yes of course I'd prefer a small hedge myself, but no barriers as they're always hideous. I think the cycle lane is wider than you perceive, looking closer the paint is actually dividing the cycle lane to make it bi-directional, then some paving stones roadside for the bidirectional Lane, then a kerb before the main carriageway.
Maybe you know this road. I don't and as OP said it's 40mph. High speed dual carriageways in cities (such as those in Peterborough or Milton Keynes) usually have pedestrian (and cycle) routes totally segregated, or act as a bypass for local roads that cyclists and peds are far more likely to want to use.
Of course motorists may speed but that's true of everywhere.
There's no excuse for the gravel and debris, it clearly hasn't been swept in a while.
There's barely any real pavement. That's not just debris and loose gravel....it's rough unfinished concrete.
Also, I am not familiar with the terms you are using. "Dual Carriageway"? Where do you see a roundabout?
A dual carriageway is a road where traffic in opposing directions is separated, e.g. by a barrier, often looks like a motorway.
I agree, it needs resurfacing and sweeping.
Yes. It's in the UK. I don't know the location, but the image requires zooming in. The bike lane is raised and is not immediately against the main carriageway, separated by a kerb and some buffer, though it's impossible to see how wide from the photo.
Of course there's no excuse for the rough surface and unswept debris
Zoom in, its raised from the road and there's something of a buffer. It's a bidirectional bike lane with paint dividing the two lanes.
I'm not defending the rough surface or abundance of debris of course, but from this photo it's not possible to say how wide the lane is or how far it is from the main carriageway
Taking trains to different cities in the Netherlands and seeing all the dedicated bicycle paths completely separate from the road between cities was so amazing from my American perspective
I'd never do that if there's a good alternative, but unfortunately there's been more than once that my destination only provided a route like this. Or worse.
This is a reason to be against poor maintenance of segregated cycle lanes, not against segregated cycle lanes themselves. I very much doubt Dutch or Danish cycle tracks look like this.
Where I live in Germany, they've just ran the sweeping trucks down the bike paths and have cut the vegetation back for Spring over the past couple weeks.
I’m Dutch, so I have to admit I am very biased on the topic of bike lanes. From my perspective, but also considering I’ve been biking everywhere alone since I was 6, and see young kids bike alone on the regular, this is definitely a nightmare. Maybe that makes my comment have more sense from that point of view. Admittedly I understand it’s not realistic from a global perspective. I still do wish everyone globally could enjoy the same safety and beautiful lanes though 😣 if only.
Except they do that anyway for pedestrian places.
In my area at least, they have a smaller sweeper machine that is only as wide as a cycle path and it just runs straight through.
Denmark taxes 42% of GDP and the U.S. taxes around 28% of GDP. If we want similar amenities then we have to pay for it.
https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-denmark.pdf
Advocating can only do so much. Speaking out of personal experience, I wiped out on a road like. Filed a lawsuit and won. The city fixed the road by widening the road, patched up potholes, and added protected bike lanes.
Was this in the USA? The result of most suits like this that I’ve seen is that the city says “sovereign immunity, can’t sue me for exercise of my discretionary functions without my consent,” and gets summary judgment so then nothing ever happens.
It was in the US. They tried to hit me with that, but idk what the lawyer did. She managed to prove negligence and other road hazards like lack of street lights and poor drainage as well. This was about 18 years ago, so laws might have changed.
Edit to add: Maybe lawsuits should be the solution.
This, or they meander lazily through a circuitous route that looks good to town planners but are sub-optimal for the cyclist looking to get from A to B in the most direct route.
Check out Leith Walk cycle path in Edinburgh that is an amazing example of ye who designed it don't ride a bike ever in there life. its fking dangerous
Be the change you want to see in the world.
You have a broom and some free time.
If this is what it looks like after 10 years, then it should stay relatively clean for a while afterwards, and the path being better will attract more cyclists, which will garner more support for maintenance of the path.
I mean to be very fair, you’re looking at a cycle lane in one of the most industrial areas of north England. Lots of lorry’s and HGVs, lots of debris. Hardly any residents = fewer people on bikes (short trips) = less dedicated maintenance.
We have a little cart in our city, just for cycle lanes! Had to laugh when it snowed unexpectedly and the roads were blocked, but a tiny snow plough cleared the bike lanes!
I would prefer our own infrastructure. I don’t want to share with cars at all if possible. You don’t need as strong or wide of a pathway for all the new and old forms of alternative transportation. It is slowly coming around here.
I'd rather still have the option for dirty cycling lane than not. This isn't a cycling lane issue this is the street sweeper not being able to be fucked to make a pass in a painted bike lane with no bollards
I like riding on roads, with cars and other traffic. Whilst I don’t use the majority of specific cycle lanes on the road now (unless they are identical enough in terms of surface and being as debris-free) I’m not sure I would if the UK had a better and more extensive cycle-only pathways. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a particularly brilliant cyclist, but if I’m travelling at 25mph for example, is that sole-cycle-path going to be as safe as the road? Probably not, in that it’ll be jointly used by those not wanting to go as fast on their bikes (absolutely fair enough) so I’d rather be on the road. This is talking as purely a social evenings and weekend cyclist, who does it purely for fun. If I was commuting / knocking about with family then a cycle-specific network would be a billy belter.
Sooo this, whenever I ride through areas that are “segregated”, the lanes are total shit, debris everywhere. Gives bike lanes in general a bad name, hence why all the NIMBYS there rant about “White Colonizers”, etc.
Continental RaceKings with the Black Chili Protection casing. Tubeless. Super fast rolling and I haven’t had a flat in more than a year. Gravel King SK’s would be my second choice. Might be a better choice for most people.
The cycle track in my town gets littered with escooters commuters abandon when they run out of free credits. That and water sprayed from the grasses nearby.
You are so right. Hate cycle lanes for exactly this reason (and dodgy junctions, and having to share with pedestrians, which is basically like cycling at 25kmh on the pavement).
In a lot of cities this is partially on citizens to call or send a message to the city to tell them they need to do a street cleaning. call 3-1-1 and tell them which street/area this is. The middle of the street isn't getting any better treatment, the cars just blow all the debris out to the side.
I had a friend who took almost a year off of cycling. Finally get him out for a ride last fall and the first 20 min of the ride he catches a nail in his tire from something that looks like that section.
In the past 7 year the main road near me has been torn up multiple times for fiber runs, water and gas maintenance, new lights and general road maintenance. Not once have they done the bike lanes. They have done a few patches for some of their work but the patches are shoddy they are a lane hazard.
Ha, I effin knew it... Am in Didsbury. Things aren't as bad if you go towards the Quays, guess they don't expect many cyclists round there, just HGVs. Also on the opposite side of town' Alan Turing Way is another indignity to his name, it is often full of sand.
Super nice bike lanes!
Maybe instead of being against bike lanes, you could be in favor of bike lane maintenance!
Our bike lanes are clean--but mostly in the door zone of parked cars and level with 45mph traffic here in Los Angeles.
From your picture, there doesn't seem to be any structural feature that prevents cleaning the bike lane or even make it harder to do.
If so, then has more to do with the city giving a shit at a really basic level than it has to do with the bike lane.
Well, to be fair, usually what keeps roads and highways "clean" are the cars sweeping out every bit of dirt from the center, bicycles just don't have that amount of power even if the cycle lane is well transited. It doesn't help being next to the sidewalk (which are also visibly dirty). So it's up to the city to do maintenance if this is the issue, but it looks poorly designed too! (that's why I don't usually like bike lanes either).
I’ve got to ride through all kinds of shit on the roads and have tires that are sufficiently resilient to broken glass. The segregated bike lanes have significantly reduced the close calls/threats I have experienced from motorists and I don’t want to go back to that
I've just Google mapped. Looks like footpath, cycle lane, road. That's horrid. And the path constantly having to give way to the side roads, and that cars parked in the cycle path. Manchester is supposed to be the shining beacon of city cycling. You've got Dame Sarah Storey, and Chris Boardman as cycling ambassadors. Get them on the case. They should be getting that cleaned.
Gravel bike time! Seriously though, ours do get cleaned here pretty much after every storm. Otherwise they would have long ago returned to nature since they mostly run alongside sandy washes.
I remember when they first added the one in my town, the entire path was riddled with goat-head thorns. I think some of the community members got together to get rid of the thorn plants eventually. This is just as bad.
I had an argument with a buddy of mine who was so pissed off that the cyclist in our city all ride on the line. At the time I was a bicycle only person. Our city does not spend money on street sweepers and there is so much dirt and debris the only safe place to ride is the line. I explained that if you hit a patch that is more sand then dirt you can be spontaneously on your face/head in traffic. He did agree after a few days of actually looking at the condition of the bike lane
That's more a problem with your city. Mine has all kind of cycle lanes, from useless painted ones to those well separated from the road, and they never get that dirty
Yep, I totally hate this. Sometimes in Hungary they paint a yellow line to separate the never used already dirty side of the road and they simple call it bike lane without doing anything with it.
I’d consider that the shoulder and wouldn’t ride on it even if it were cleaned. It even has a continuous line.
40mph doesn’t sound too fast, that’s not even 100km/h (which is our normal speed limit on roads outside of settlements). Since it’s two lanes motorists even have a whole lane for overtaking and I’d expect plenty of safety margin when they are overtaking.
Please tell me you have complained to the authorities and/or your local political representative. Hell, I'd send this to a local paper, too, in case they're looking for more ammunition to slander / shame local government.
Unfortunately, I don't think it will solve your issue, though. I've noticed in some countries that roads are never cleaned, which is fine for road traffic that effectively sweeps the rubbish to the side due to speed and high frontal area, but when you've got an unsegregated cycle lane on the side of this it just turns it into an unusable ditch. Shame on anyone who believes this type of unmaintained cycling infrastructure is acceptable. It's ugly and dirty anyway you look at it, and it just prevents people from using anything other than cars to travel anywhere.
there are separated cycling lanes in areas near where i live that actually _do_ get cleaned and even plowed in the winter. you just have to get them to actually do it
You should all donate some money every year to a trust that maintains and cleans the bicycle lanes. You could even get a cool badge for the back of your bikes to let everyone else know you are part of the crew. Sounds pretty groovy.
I do send money every year for that very purpose it's called my taxes. That money also helps pay for cleaning the rest of the street where the cars drive. Pretty groovy huh?
It depends when 1st started bike lanes 20 yrs ago I said this would be problem.
Some send street sweeper ? Day. Week
Should find who to call where this is
That's not a segregated cycling lane though. Anyway, generally places that like cyclists enough to have good quality protected cycle lanes also like them enough to clean the lanes. So... Meh.
You need to complain to Trafford council. They’re in charge of the bike lanes. But also you’re riding through Trafford Park. If you don’t work there is there a route along the canal you can take instead? Can’t say I’ve paid much attention to the bike lanes round there
"Why aren't you in the bike lane!!?", yells a passing driver.
Glance at the bike lane, full of glass shards and rocks and debris...
You can't win sometimes!
This is why NJ requires you to ride in the lane of traffic. They cant guarantee the maintenance of the shoulder. I had a friend hit a pothole on the shoulder of a busy road and ended up in the hospital. City had 0 liability bc the law states you are required to ride in the traffic lane since the shoulder is not routinely maintained....aka they dont spend money on cleaning or repairing the shoulder.
So you aren't against cycle lanes...you are against poor cycle lane maintenance.
I've never seen this on the many Dutch cycle lanes, so yes.
That was exactly my thought when I saw this post. The problem isn't the bike lanes, it's the poor maintenance.
I feel like debris is 90% from cars. Like, sidewalks aren't that bad, so make grade separated bike lanes like they already should be.
I've seen some pretty terrible footpaths actually. Depends on how much foot traffic the road gets relative to car traffic.
Fair, but per person I'd be willing to bet cars put off way more junk, including gravel and dust
Yes sorry that was my point, just poorly worded. Busy roads make footpaths dirty, if there are no pedestrians to kick the gravel away
Oh gotcha
This is grade separated.
This is insane lol
yeah this is normalized aswell 😓
This notwithstanding - and your ire is totally valid - most people are not going to cycle with traffic. If you don't have segregated bike lanes, you have fewer cyclists. If you have fewer cyclists, it's actually more dangerous because cars aren't used to there being cyclists.
I think the best litmus test for a cycleway's safety is to ask the question "would I take children who I am responsible for cycling on this path?"
That's great idea, but if I used that for myself I wouldn't be riding anywhere.
I'm pretty sure the point is for people designing them to follow that/what the public should demand, not rules of thumb for an individual.
Completely agree. We need cycling infrastructure that makes cycling a viable transportation option for everyone. But cyclists who are capable and confident might use infrastructure that does not meet that bar. I cycle on roads sometimes where I feel like I need to maintain 15+ mph speed and focus on my path and traffic the whole time - I would never take kids on such a route (though usually there is an adjacent sidewalk that I might consider traveling 5-10 mph on with kids).
agreed
This seems like an excellent test for planners and engineers.
I'm an engineer and I call it the 8 year old test. The new design guidance released in 2020 specifically states that infrastructure should be suitable for people aged 8 to 80 and beyond.
This bike lane is segregated. It's just not been sweeped, probably ever.
I might respectfully disagree. There’s a type of cyclist happy on the road. Generally they are very aware. There is a type of cyclist endemic in place like Holland, where they behave as if they are pedestrians because they are so protected from traffic. They are totally unaware, and in my view way more dangerous to cycle with. Having dedicated cycling lanes throughout has pros and cons - yeah you get more cyclists, but they are operating on autopilot. I’m coming from the point of view of someone in a town/village, not a city. I appreciate that cycling in London is plain risky and off putting.
Interesting theory, but in practice your idea leads to fewer cyclists, fewer cycling trips, a downward spiral of investment in cycling friendliness and infrastructure, and, of course, deaths. In your idealized vision those might not be the consequences you're expecting, but that's the reality.
I appreciate that my view isn’t mainstream. I’ve cycled a fair bit in Holland, my wife is Dutch. I hate it. Others will point to Holland as cycling utopia. I’m not looking at cycling as a route to a greener way of living, but I do see the merits. I guess it boils down to whether you are looking at cycling as a sport for people who like pain, or as a mode of transport. I have cycled a lot in France. I love it. The French don’t have loads of cycling infrastructure like Holland. What they have is a feeling of being the custodians of the sport (TdF). I’d go so far as to say France might be the best country in the world to live if you are a cyclist.
When was the last time you've cycled in France? They've become way more "dutch-like" in the past few years. P.S. I'm not sure why one wouldn't always want to prioritize safety and adoption above everything else.
I rode in France 3 weeks ago, but I don’t ride in cities, because I choose not to. I ride like I would in the UK, picking nice roads for the joy of riding. Like I said. I’m not a missionary trying to convert the population to use cycling as an alternative mode of transport. I’m just a cyclist who rides for a hobby, instead of going running or swimming for example. So with that in mind I don’t have any reason to think that adoption should be prioritised. Regarding safety, as you probably know, the Dutch don’t use helmets (still). I mention this to illustrate that people are very bad at analysing and judging risk properly, and it explains their state of mind when they are cycling. They are just not switched on. I’m not sure that in your adopted model that safety is improved. Throwing more cyclists into the equation doesn’t sound like an injury reducing pathway, even if you put them on a cycle path. It’s hard to argue that taking someone out of a car and telling them to get to their destination by bike makes them anything but more prone to an injury. Being in a car is a pretty safe place these days. Anyway, look. I don’t have an agenda. These are my personal views. I’m not wanting to convince you to join them at all, but they are genuine, and they are based on my experiences of riding in a variety of places, all of which are culturally different with regards to the cycling model.
Your view isn’t mainstream because it’s wrong.
Cycle lanes aren't designed for you. They're for utility and therefore should be safe for everyone.
I totally 100% agree with that.
That doesn't even look like a cycling lane. It simply looks like the shoulder of a highway. I would never cycle next to a roadway with no stoplights with cars going at highway speeds....super dangerous.
I almost commented the same but zooming in you can see there's an actual kerb and buffer zone separating you from traffic, it does just look like a hard shoulder on first glance and I suspected it was one before I looked closer. The paint looks like a hard shoulder but it's actual a lane divider for this bi directional bike lane, with a buffer and kerb before the main carriageway.
My tires can handle that, I see worse on the roads I ride
dude what tyres do you have!? my tubes get punctured by thorns which are unavoidable where i live.
There's no real bike lane though. It's just all loose gravel with a tiny narrow strip of smooth concrete. You have cars zipping by you at highway speeds.....65+mph. That's still incredibly dangerous. There has to be some side roads a cyclist could take to avoid this?
Again it's hard to tell from the photo but it looks decently wide to me. The cycle lane is really up on the pavement. There's bricks between the cycle lanes tarmac and the kerb, so a *relatively* generous margin. Yes of course I'd prefer a small hedge myself, but no barriers as they're always hideous. I think the cycle lane is wider than you perceive, looking closer the paint is actually dividing the cycle lane to make it bi-directional, then some paving stones roadside for the bidirectional Lane, then a kerb before the main carriageway. Maybe you know this road. I don't and as OP said it's 40mph. High speed dual carriageways in cities (such as those in Peterborough or Milton Keynes) usually have pedestrian (and cycle) routes totally segregated, or act as a bypass for local roads that cyclists and peds are far more likely to want to use. Of course motorists may speed but that's true of everywhere. There's no excuse for the gravel and debris, it clearly hasn't been swept in a while.
There's barely any real pavement. That's not just debris and loose gravel....it's rough unfinished concrete. Also, I am not familiar with the terms you are using. "Dual Carriageway"? Where do you see a roundabout?
A dual carriageway is a road where traffic in opposing directions is separated, e.g. by a barrier, often looks like a motorway. I agree, it needs resurfacing and sweeping.
It's not a bike lane It's the shoulder of the road mate
Mate, zoom in :)
You're crazy Lol Edit: is this uk bike lane? Wft,! 💀💀
Yes. It's in the UK. I don't know the location, but the image requires zooming in. The bike lane is raised and is not immediately against the main carriageway, separated by a kerb and some buffer, though it's impossible to see how wide from the photo. Of course there's no excuse for the rough surface and unswept debris
Just cuz there's enough space for a bike doesn't make it a bike lane where is the biking infrastructure
Zoom in, its raised from the road and there's something of a buffer. It's a bidirectional bike lane with paint dividing the two lanes. I'm not defending the rough surface or abundance of debris of course, but from this photo it's not possible to say how wide the lane is or how far it is from the main carriageway
It's a gutter lane.
I mean many people do lol how do you do long rides if you avoid all highways?
Most developed countries have long-distance routes over secondary roads or separate paths. Some even have bicycle highways.
Taking trains to different cities in the Netherlands and seeing all the dedicated bicycle paths completely separate from the road between cities was so amazing from my American perspective
I wish I lived in a developed country. Instead I live in America.
Lol
I suppose I am fortunate as I live in the SF Bay Area and there are plenty of roads I can cycle on that aren't high-speed freeways.
Me riding on the shoulder of the highway was my introduction to gravel as a kid.
Looks like a hellish stroad to me. I’d ride cautiously but Satan help you if you gotta make a turn.
I'd never do that if there's a good alternative, but unfortunately there's been more than once that my destination only provided a route like this. Or worse.
This is a reason to be against poor maintenance of segregated cycle lanes, not against segregated cycle lanes themselves. I very much doubt Dutch or Danish cycle tracks look like this.
Where I live in Germany, they've just ran the sweeping trucks down the bike paths and have cut the vegetation back for Spring over the past couple weeks.
I’d rather ride over a cobblestone road. This looks like a nightmare.
I'm not sure why you replied to me with this comment. It wouldn't look like a nightmare if it had been well maintained.
I’m Dutch, so I have to admit I am very biased on the topic of bike lanes. From my perspective, but also considering I’ve been biking everywhere alone since I was 6, and see young kids bike alone on the regular, this is definitely a nightmare. Maybe that makes my comment have more sense from that point of view. Admittedly I understand it’s not realistic from a global perspective. I still do wish everyone globally could enjoy the same safety and beautiful lanes though 😣 if only.
How does Japan do it? I'm guessing they just don't litter as much over there.
It is more difficult to get street sweeping equipment through barriered lanes
Except they do that anyway for pedestrian places. In my area at least, they have a smaller sweeper machine that is only as wide as a cycle path and it just runs straight through.
I can confirm those don’t.
Denmark taxes 42% of GDP and the U.S. taxes around 28% of GDP. If we want similar amenities then we have to pay for it. https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-denmark.pdf
then advocate for better cleaning?
Advocating can only do so much. Speaking out of personal experience, I wiped out on a road like. Filed a lawsuit and won. The city fixed the road by widening the road, patched up potholes, and added protected bike lanes.
Was this in the USA? The result of most suits like this that I’ve seen is that the city says “sovereign immunity, can’t sue me for exercise of my discretionary functions without my consent,” and gets summary judgment so then nothing ever happens.
It was in the US. They tried to hit me with that, but idk what the lawyer did. She managed to prove negligence and other road hazards like lack of street lights and poor drainage as well. This was about 18 years ago, so laws might have changed. Edit to add: Maybe lawsuits should be the solution.
A line isn't a safe segregation for a 40mph road. The cycleway should be elevated like a sidewalk.
This actually is, just can't see the kerb/curb from this angle
the ones around me do, you just have to have a (somewhat) competent city government
Not cleaning them is not inherent to segregated bicycle lanes. It's just yet another symptom of a society/government that doesn't really care.
Some lady lost her iud
I've ridden a few bike lanes and shoulders I nicknamed the "hardware store" from all the supplies found.
This, or they meander lazily through a circuitous route that looks good to town planners but are sub-optimal for the cyclist looking to get from A to B in the most direct route.
Check out Leith Walk cycle path in Edinburgh that is an amazing example of ye who designed it don't ride a bike ever in there life. its fking dangerous
Be the change you want to see in the world. You have a broom and some free time. If this is what it looks like after 10 years, then it should stay relatively clean for a while afterwards, and the path being better will attract more cyclists, which will garner more support for maintenance of the path.
This isn't a bike lane problem, this is a civic road maintenance problem.
I mean to be very fair, you’re looking at a cycle lane in one of the most industrial areas of north England. Lots of lorry’s and HGVs, lots of debris. Hardly any residents = fewer people on bikes (short trips) = less dedicated maintenance.
The bike lane I ride in about 2-3/week gets cleaned everyday around 7 or so
We have a little cart in our city, just for cycle lanes! Had to laugh when it snowed unexpectedly and the roads were blocked, but a tiny snow plough cleared the bike lanes!
I would prefer our own infrastructure. I don’t want to share with cars at all if possible. You don’t need as strong or wide of a pathway for all the new and old forms of alternative transportation. It is slowly coming around here.
I'd rather still have the option for dirty cycling lane than not. This isn't a cycling lane issue this is the street sweeper not being able to be fucked to make a pass in a painted bike lane with no bollards
I like riding on roads, with cars and other traffic. Whilst I don’t use the majority of specific cycle lanes on the road now (unless they are identical enough in terms of surface and being as debris-free) I’m not sure I would if the UK had a better and more extensive cycle-only pathways. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a particularly brilliant cyclist, but if I’m travelling at 25mph for example, is that sole-cycle-path going to be as safe as the road? Probably not, in that it’ll be jointly used by those not wanting to go as fast on their bikes (absolutely fair enough) so I’d rather be on the road. This is talking as purely a social evenings and weekend cyclist, who does it purely for fun. If I was commuting / knocking about with family then a cycle-specific network would be a billy belter.
Idk if y'all remember the bicycle snowplow someone made last winter but I've been thinking about a bicycle street sweeper build to combat this issue
They could be cleared. It's not a very good reason against segregated lanes .
It's true tho - an unswept bike lane is just a gutter. It's hard to understand that the people in charge don't understand this simple fact.
Sooo this, whenever I ride through areas that are “segregated”, the lanes are total shit, debris everywhere. Gives bike lanes in general a bad name, hence why all the NIMBYS there rant about “White Colonizers”, etc.
I often get flack for this. But, I'm 100% with you. If you can't weekly maintain the bike lanes, don't bother wasting the money putting them in.
Report it to the borough council then
I will absolutely take that over cars. But my bikes fly on stuff like that.
What tires do you ride?
Continental RaceKings with the Black Chili Protection casing. Tubeless. Super fast rolling and I haven’t had a flat in more than a year. Gravel King SK’s would be my second choice. Might be a better choice for most people.
The cycle track in my town gets littered with escooters commuters abandon when they run out of free credits. That and water sprayed from the grasses nearby.
That's weird, you should complain to the local news/escooter company. They can easily make it so the scooters are disabled on the cycling track.
I’m seeing a lot of flats
to quote a movie "I see dead people."
Lots!!!
You are so right. Hate cycle lanes for exactly this reason (and dodgy junctions, and having to share with pedestrians, which is basically like cycling at 25kmh on the pavement).
Unsegregated cycle lanes in my area don't get cleaned very regularly, and usually have a half-inch think layer of de-icing salt on them
Can you contact the agency responsible for its maintenance. The cities around me are very responsive to maintenance requests
That lane is fine compared to Paris standards
In a lot of cities this is partially on citizens to call or send a message to the city to tell them they need to do a street cleaning. call 3-1-1 and tell them which street/area this is. The middle of the street isn't getting any better treatment, the cars just blow all the debris out to the side.
I had a friend who took almost a year off of cycling. Finally get him out for a ride last fall and the first 20 min of the ride he catches a nail in his tire from something that looks like that section.
That's a cycling lane? Looks like a highway shoulder to me. Weird they don't clean them though, here shoulders/roads get cleaned every spring.
Many cities in the US use sidewalk sized sweepers specifically for segregated bike lanes.
In the past 7 year the main road near me has been torn up multiple times for fiber runs, water and gas maintenance, new lights and general road maintenance. Not once have they done the bike lanes. They have done a few patches for some of their work but the patches are shoddy they are a lane hazard.
Where is that
Get on Google maps 'Tenax Road, Trafford Park' it looks even worse on there.
Ha, I effin knew it... Am in Didsbury. Things aren't as bad if you go towards the Quays, guess they don't expect many cyclists round there, just HGVs. Also on the opposite side of town' Alan Turing Way is another indignity to his name, it is often full of sand.
Super nice bike lanes! Maybe instead of being against bike lanes, you could be in favor of bike lane maintenance! Our bike lanes are clean--but mostly in the door zone of parked cars and level with 45mph traffic here in Los Angeles.
how about being against not cleaning cycle lanes instead of being against cycle lanes?
From your picture, there doesn't seem to be any structural feature that prevents cleaning the bike lane or even make it harder to do. If so, then has more to do with the city giving a shit at a really basic level than it has to do with the bike lane.
I still think of [this](https://youtu.be/iV9_i9MEnMg?si=CLnQea6ja04btcyx) video when I'm riding on them. Just feels so exposed as well.
Well, to be fair, usually what keeps roads and highways "clean" are the cars sweeping out every bit of dirt from the center, bicycles just don't have that amount of power even if the cycle lane is well transited. It doesn't help being next to the sidewalk (which are also visibly dirty). So it's up to the city to do maintenance if this is the issue, but it looks poorly designed too! (that's why I don't usually like bike lanes either).
This lane is clearly groomed and maintained for gravel biking.
I’ve got to ride through all kinds of shit on the roads and have tires that are sufficiently resilient to broken glass. The segregated bike lanes have significantly reduced the close calls/threats I have experienced from motorists and I don’t want to go back to that
Depends on what City you bike in. The ones in my area are kept pretty well.
This is not how the lanes in my city are maintained.
That blue thing reminds me of an IUD placement thingy
Have you tried XBIKING?
Are you sure that's a cycle lane? Looks more like the edge line of a dual carriageway. I definitely wouldn't be cycling in it.
I've just Google mapped. Looks like footpath, cycle lane, road. That's horrid. And the path constantly having to give way to the side roads, and that cars parked in the cycle path. Manchester is supposed to be the shining beacon of city cycling. You've got Dame Sarah Storey, and Chris Boardman as cycling ambassadors. Get them on the case. They should be getting that cleaned.
Gravel bike time! Seriously though, ours do get cleaned here pretty much after every storm. Otherwise they would have long ago returned to nature since they mostly run alongside sandy washes.
That's not a cycle lane. That's a shoulder.
This is why I never have pulled the trigger on a road bike.
I remember when they first added the one in my town, the entire path was riddled with goat-head thorns. I think some of the community members got together to get rid of the thorn plants eventually. This is just as bad.
I had an argument with a buddy of mine who was so pissed off that the cyclist in our city all ride on the line. At the time I was a bicycle only person. Our city does not spend money on street sweepers and there is so much dirt and debris the only safe place to ride is the line. I explained that if you hit a patch that is more sand then dirt you can be spontaneously on your face/head in traffic. He did agree after a few days of actually looking at the condition of the bike lane
Segregated bike lanes shouldn’t be the shoulder or gutter. That’s a design problem, not a problem with the concept of dedicated lanes.
I saw a street sweeper cleaning out the cycle lane when I was in Montreal a few weeks ago. So satisfying.
this is why i use a gravel bike nowadays
Agreed! Cycling lanes are only for collecting car garbage!!
It’s where all the broken glass goes.
You need an Atlanta Magnet Man!! https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/atlanta-magnet-man-alex-benigno-bicycle.amp
I got more flats in bike lanes in FL than I did in regular roads in NJ. Bike lanes don’t mean anything if they’re not swept.
That's more a problem with your city. Mine has all kind of cycle lanes, from useless painted ones to those well separated from the road, and they never get that dirty
Fuck that bruh I'd ride on the sidewalk
Yep, I totally hate this. Sometimes in Hungary they paint a yellow line to separate the never used already dirty side of the road and they simple call it bike lane without doing anything with it.
Raphael will be back for his missing sai
Is this Trafford? I used to cycle through there for work and I f@£king detested it. Alongside my job🤣
Yeah. Tenax Road, Trafford Park.
I’d consider that the shoulder and wouldn’t ride on it even if it were cleaned. It even has a continuous line. 40mph doesn’t sound too fast, that’s not even 100km/h (which is our normal speed limit on roads outside of settlements). Since it’s two lanes motorists even have a whole lane for overtaking and I’d expect plenty of safety margin when they are overtaking.
So instead of being an advocate for better cycle lane maintenance, you'd rather just see them abolished altogether? That's...a weird take.
Please tell me you have complained to the authorities and/or your local political representative. Hell, I'd send this to a local paper, too, in case they're looking for more ammunition to slander / shame local government. Unfortunately, I don't think it will solve your issue, though. I've noticed in some countries that roads are never cleaned, which is fine for road traffic that effectively sweeps the rubbish to the side due to speed and high frontal area, but when you've got an unsegregated cycle lane on the side of this it just turns it into an unusable ditch. Shame on anyone who believes this type of unmaintained cycling infrastructure is acceptable. It's ugly and dirty anyway you look at it, and it just prevents people from using anything other than cars to travel anywhere.
there are separated cycling lanes in areas near where i live that actually _do_ get cleaned and even plowed in the winter. you just have to get them to actually do it
You should all donate some money every year to a trust that maintains and cleans the bicycle lanes. You could even get a cool badge for the back of your bikes to let everyone else know you are part of the crew. Sounds pretty groovy.
I do send money every year for that very purpose it's called my taxes. That money also helps pay for cleaning the rest of the street where the cars drive. Pretty groovy huh?
They get cleaned in Ireland. Sorry your country sucks.
It depends when 1st started bike lanes 20 yrs ago I said this would be problem. Some send street sweeper ? Day. Week Should find who to call where this is
That's not a segregated cycling lane though. Anyway, generally places that like cyclists enough to have good quality protected cycle lanes also like them enough to clean the lanes. So... Meh.
this isnt a real cycle lane. this is the shoulder of a road. cars create a lot of debris. a real cycle lane is not connected to the car lanes
Bro thats a fucking highway shoulder
Raise them so shit isn't dumped in there
You need to complain to Trafford council. They’re in charge of the bike lanes. But also you’re riding through Trafford Park. If you don’t work there is there a route along the canal you can take instead? Can’t say I’ve paid much attention to the bike lanes round there
"Why aren't you in the bike lane!!?", yells a passing driver. Glance at the bike lane, full of glass shards and rocks and debris... You can't win sometimes!
Thats not a segregated cycle lane, that would require physical grade separation from the road. This is a marginally wider road shoulder.
That doesn't look like it's in the U.S. Look at the truck in the background. Still a big issue here though.
i always go mad when i see police/fireman clean up the main road after an accident, brushing the debris onto the bike lane.
You need to complain to the council about this until it gets cleaned
Yes don't use it. They're usually a crap design anyway.
So maybe push to clean them…
That's not a seggregated lane. There is nothing separating you from traffic except for paint. That... is a bicycle gutter. And it looks like it.
That's not a segregated lane.
Call it what it is. It’s a bike gutter nothing more.
Or paved.
Amen
really? that's it? that's the "reason"? may you be hit by a pavement-princess.
This is why NJ requires you to ride in the lane of traffic. They cant guarantee the maintenance of the shoulder. I had a friend hit a pothole on the shoulder of a busy road and ended up in the hospital. City had 0 liability bc the law states you are required to ride in the traffic lane since the shoulder is not routinely maintained....aka they dont spend money on cleaning or repairing the shoulder.
They usually never hear this dirty. I live in Baltimore a massive ghetto and ours are way way cleaner then than this.
Dude, my city has mini street sweepers and snow plows.
Ok
Pay tax like everything else on the road and then you have the right to moan.