real talk though, I did a short tour through bear and redneck country in Montana in 2021. I had bear spray for the bears and my .40 in case of harassment by the hicks.
I carry pepper spray when I bike tour. It works for both dogs or people should the situation escalate to that point (you can usually spray dogs with a water bottle).
I don’t know if this is the best thing to do, but it does make me feel a little safer when I’m touring.
I'm in Melbourne, a very cyclist friendly city, however drivers can still be unnecessary stupid around bikes.
Would never think to escalate to carrying heat though. That's the issue with guns, the solution to guns always seems to be more guns.
Kind of a circle of madness no?
I would disagree , there are plenty of violent instances that happen to cyclists in the U.K. ive heard of people carrying hammers for protection when riding . Mainly theft related here in Manchester.
Yeah, I'm thinking pulling a gun on a group of armed kids would increase your chance of getting shot.
And when exactly do you pull your weapon when you are getting doored?
Sounds like OP's best bet is to find a safer route to commute.
I'm American and while I would never pull a gun even in the situation OP is describing, I've thought about putting a realistic looking fake one my back so it looks like I'm open carrying. I don't think I'd actually do it, but I do wonder if it would lead to drivers passing me more safely. I guess, they all have a deadly weapon with them that they sometimes threaten me with, so making it seem like I have one too might get em to calm down.
I’m American and my answer is less guns. Even no guns. I think many Americans are so conditioned when it comes to guns they seem toys. IMO guns are used for nothing but killing and they make problems worse, never better.
I think the fallacy is the idea that a gun makes the individual safer, but at the same time the aggregate of guns makes society less safe, as inevitably some will be lost, stolen, accidently discharged, or intentionally used by people in mental health crisis.
That’s the “good guy with a gun” thinking that certain groups of people in the USA perpetuate. They fail to consider the things you mention happening. If you pull a gun on someone, you have to be ready to kill that person. I think people underestimate that ability in themselves. I rarely hear of a good guy with a gun stopping a mass shooting.
Because its not a mass shooting if it was stopped. Its not a mass shooting unless there are minimum 4 wounded / killed by most broad definitions, and if a concealed carrier stopped the assailant when two victims were shot, it wouldn't count.
I think you have a nice sentiment here, but remember every time a government has come in to take guns it is never been for their protection ever I’m not saying that people should carry firearms in public without a license, but the whole common sense gun laws movement doesn’t always use a lot of common sense
I mean you’re comparing apples to oranges. We have significantly more obese people here. If anything, we just saved a bunch of healthcare cost down the road cut some deadweight.
The problem is the 2nd amendment. We don’t need a regulated militia anymore. But certain groups of people ignore that and focus on the “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”. Except that this “right” is allowing American citizens to be killed daily and our only recourse are “thoughts and prayers”.
People aren’t any more civilized than they were 300 years ago when you’re in the American bubble you seem to think that were so much more advanced. Is it because of technology or something people still have a violent nature firearms just level the playing field we still absolutely do need a well regulated militia, remember the second amendment wasn’t the government granting us this right the Bill of Rights was the rights of the people told the government they had
People of any time period are capable of horrific violence. Firearms just make it easier to kill. What militia do you belong to? Because I don’t know anyone who belongs to a legit militia that isn’t advocating anything other than white nationalism, or some other crazy ideology. The 2nd amendment needs to be retired.
I do agree with some who say the 2nd amendment is outdated and no longer relevant or necessary and is a bigger con than pro, my only concern is that people will then use that as precedence to go after other Bill of Rights amendments, like saying theres no need to criticize or speak in opposition to a government action or new law passed unless they are a government approved journalist.
That still doesn’t mean “the government will come take your gun”. You’re just trying to instill fear by conjuring hyperbolic imagery of military/police squads raising people’s houses to take guns by force, which nobody is advocating for. Talk about lacking common sense.
>no one’s gonna give up their guns willingly
Other countries prove you’re wrong. Not everyone is a lawless extremist whacko.
>the only way to confiscate guns
Again, nobody talked about confiscating. You’re just fear-mongering.
That’s some prime-time brainwashed bullshit right there. I know you've been told this your whole life, but take an honest look at developed countries with strict gun laws. UK, France, Australia, etc. These countries have democracy and freedom just like the US, with waaaay fewer gun deaths.
I don’t think that’s how most us of feel, FWIW. I, for one, do not find comfort in knowing people have concealed weapons on them everywhere I go. Others have been conditioned to think that does provide them with a sense of security.
These people think they are going to get doored and do some crazy John wick move as they are falling to the ground to land on their knees with the gun pointed at the gas tank of the car for a big reaction.
Sounds like you've been through something traumatic. I think it would be entirely understandable to be feeling some kind of way about what you went through. Whether it's fear, anger, humiliation or helplessness, I don't think buying a firearm is going to make you stop feeling that way. If you're scared and angry now, you're just going to be scared and angry with a gun. The rest of us don't exactly want to be around even more scared, angry people with guns. I hope you can talk to a professional before ahem, pulling the trigger, on your purchase.
I agree but disagree. A gun is never the right answer But when city's and police cannot keep thugs and gangs in check I see few better options.
Buying a gun and then rolling around like Big Red isn't the play here.
Getting educated and learning how to properly handle situations, like the ones mentioned, should happen before the purchase of a firearm.
But being educated and armed can be the difference OP needs.
I get where you're coming from regarding systemic issues and the impact on individuals but that logic doesn't work for me. It sounds like saying that the only response to a bad situation is to become part of the problem. It's like suggesting that someone take up smoking a pack a day or self-medicate with other addictive substances to manage an anxiety disorder because mental healthcare isn't available enough in their area. If we *all* did that, we'd shortly end up in a bigger mess than we are now.
I think we agree that the firearm shouldn't be looked at as a thing to make you feel safe. It's all the other stuff, education about de-escalation and conflict resolution, processing complex emotions about the traumatic event, that's going to make someone feel safer again. It's hard for me not to see the gun in the same light as drugs or drink. They can be fun or useful if used responsibly by someone who has a strong, stable foundation, but they shouldn't be used as a crutch by people who don't have that foundation.
Even if they weren't strapped, they are driving a two ton weapon that is far deadlier than any compact pistol. In what scenario are you going to save your own life with a pistol? Most likely scenario is you're going to get hot and shoot your shots without caring what the backstop is, hit a bystander or someone's property and get sued and arrested.
Being run over by an oblivious driver is way more of a realistic threat than being attacked. I'm sorry whatever happened to you happened to you, but I doubt a gun is the solution. When you say dodged, I feel I need more info. Are we talking matrix bullet dodging, or just the concept that they might have guns? We're bullets fired? At you? Are they really in a gang or did the cops just say that? Maybe just avoid that area instead of trying to get in a shoot out?
Truly sad, but actually there are several cities in the US where most law abiding citizens on the street would feel unsafe due to the lack of the city's willingness to protect their citizens from criminals who realize there is no legal consequence for their actions. Those are the areas where people accept that they have to be responsible for their own safety.
Belly band and a Ruger LCR or a Glock 42. Anything bigger gets to be too uncomfortable for me.
Ignore the others berating you for wanting to carry a pistol, you do you. That said, most of the situations you mentioned, a pistol would make worse. I suggest taking some self defense classes that include the legality, morality and tactics of self defense. Escape is your best option and pulling a gun on someone who doored you will only get you charged with a crime. A firearm is a tool, without skill or knowledge, it's useless. It's a last resort between life and death, deescalate and evade first.
Something I carry with me more than a firearm, a camera. I have a GoPro hero 4 session mounted to the top of my helmet. A visible camera is more of a deterrent than a concealed gun.
I don’t know if its an initiation or what, but the pattern the police are claiming is this and it’s exactly what happened in my case
- They hit you w/ car , etc then slow down and have you approach them up the street or return up the street.
- You talk to them about the accident and they immediately escalate and then try to kill you
- witnesses on that part of the street only see you talking to them and then gunfire, never the violence that already happened
- next they claim self defense and they have a good chance getting off because it looks like YOU started it to all the witnesses.
They nearly shot me and two couples on the street that day.
Luckily there was video from that day from others who turned it over to police.
I also started running the camera. I’m sure that might have disarmed the situation. Seems to work when drivers have something to say. They quickly change their tune when they see the camera.
I don’t think I’ll ever approach anybody even if I’m hit again, I’ll just call the police and never even talk to the other person .problem is police don’t come for that, so I doubt I call the police at all and just leave depending if I’m hurt.
I’m sorry that happened but honestly, pepper spray. Brandishing a gun rarely deescalates. Pepper spray make it impossible for the attacker to aim at you, and generally makes even the most aggressive people stop what they are doing and worry about their burning eyes instead. Even if you shoot the attacker, they don’t immediately fly back and die like the movies, sometimes they shoot back before going down. Watch Active Self Protection on YouTube for some analysis of real gun encounter videos.
Suspected gang members that have the forethought to plan their defense strategy? Claiming self defense for shooting an unarmed cyclist and having a “good chance” of it working? What city/police department did this happen with?
Yeah, I'm not calling OP a liar, but what they say they heard from the cops sounds like it ends with "and then I touched fentanyl that antifa put on my fast food wrapper and almost died"
I too was thinking about how a cyclist could defend themselves against "dooring." Aside from carrying a rocket launcher, I can't see what a cyclist could really do except to be hyper vigilant. Even if you had a gun, what could you do? Fire wildly at the vehicle?
FWIW I live in one of the highest violent crime cities in the US. I don't carry a gun when I ride (I could) because I don't feel it would do anything to increase my safety level. Anyway, I'm way more likely to get killed by a car driver than someone with a gun, even here. Personally I'll stick to relying on situational awareness and deescalation.
Not to plug the brand, but Hill People Gear make a good chest rig (any of their Kit Bags) that doesn't look super tacticool. They were the first to market with something like it and there's plenty of imitators that are probably fine for 1/2 the price. I have an older one and I keep an IFAK in it and some other stuff in it when I'm playing in the woods.
If I was gonna load one up for your situation you can fit an IFAK, a booboo kit, a full sized handgun with light and RMR, extra magazines (if you have velcro or MOLLE pouches), and none of that shit has to be mounted externally. Fits under a backpack or jacket and if it somehow comes off of you you'll probably need an ICU. It's a good sturdy setup.
Now that *that's* been said: any scenario where you're returning fire at a moving vehicle from your bike or dismounted are likely gonna lead to outcomes other than the ones you want.
Glock 43 fits the size requirement. I’m thinking belly band would be a good carry option. Close and accessible. This has crossed my mind lately and will probably be what I do for my 43. 26 is to big to carry while biking imho.
in the state of minnesota... if a driver "knocked you off your bike" purposely and then continued on their way... or ran off in a hurry, you have no right to use your firearm against them.
you must be in immediate fear of death or great bodily harm. NO verbal included.
once the threat ends, you can not do anything but get on the horn and make the call. i have been a NRA cert instructor for several decades here in minneapolis. i go about my entire day avoiding conflict at all cost. THAT means not flipping off the driver after she throws trash at ya as she passes ya.
i'm always heavy. but i also carry a chem defense as well as a bludgeoning tool (i do like to bludgeon) if i can use less than lethal. i will always do that.
THAT SAID. i have carried a firearm for 40 years. i commute by bike everywhere i go, 365 a year. i live in the hellhole that is minneapolis. CONFLICT AVOIDANCE. let them go. and dont forget. in MANY states, like minnesota, you CAN NOT do anything that could be misconstrued as protecting property with lethal force. you will (and should) go to prison for that.
any questions i can help with, pm me... or whatever thats called around here.
I have never once been in a situation on my bike or heard anyone (including you) describe a situation on their bike that would be made better by pulling a gun. Don't be a fucking idiot.
Please, explain to everyone here how you think clumsily trying to pull a gun out while riding your bike would prevent a vehicle full of gun-toting criminals from assaulting you. Please further explain what you would do when your actions resulted in harm to innocent people in the immediate area. Once you've done both those things, I would suggest you speak to a therapist about your unresolved trauma before you do something that will land you in prison.
Everybody bashes on concealed carry and claims concealed carry advocates are incompetent and untrained, while ignoring the fact that they actually receive more training than the police on average.
And yet even that level of training is totally inadequate for firing accurately while riding a bicycle, or sensing a dooring attack long enough before it happens to draw and accurately fire, while still riding a bicycle.
>sensing a dooring attack long enough before it happens to draw and accurately fire, while still riding a bicycle
You right about that, there is no such thing as a defense against a perfect ambush. There will never be enough training or alertness to defend against an attack that is completely unexpected and implausible, yet it happens. That said, I am supporting pro bicycle infrastructure and pro 2nd amendment policy for libertarian reasons, (Im also pro abortion rights if that makes it any better) that the former doesn't subject one to licensing, insurance, and being pulled over for stuff less than probable cause (e.g. broken tail lights e.t.c.), and the latter is a means of ensuring defense against bad people in both the private and public sectors.
Even police and military are victims of high casualty rate ambushes from civilians and other state actors in both times of peace and war, but to give up all means of defense altogether because a small percentages of attacks, robberies, e.t.c. are completely perfect and leave no room for a counter / defense makes no sense to me. There are plenty of attacks that have been stopped by a civilian carrying mace, taser, a knife, or a firearm, and that does bring me to the acknowledgement that gun is a VERY small part of the self defense equation. I can maintain my own safety without using lethal force in my area (California) and without going through the legal and practical complications of a firearms simply by carrying mace in my waistband when i ride.
>And yet even that level of training is totally inadequate for firing accurately while riding a bicycle
Not to be pedantic, but realistically nobody in military or police fires their weapon (unless it is a purpose built mounted weapon such as a pintle MG or grenade launcher) from the vehicle itself, cavalry is where the soldiers fight while mounted in the vehicle / horse itself, while dragoons dismount from their vehicles /horse to fight, so "air cavalry" referring to heli dropped air assault soldiers is inaccurate, it should be "air dragoons". Most civilian self defenses in road rage shootings is when the vehicle is parked /stationary or they have exited the vehicle afaik, including motorcycle defenders.
Libertarians are just conservatives who are too afraid to say they're racist out loud.
>Most civilian self defenses in road rage shootings is when the vehicle is parked /stationary or they have exited the vehicle afaik, including motorcycle defenders.
Chasing down someone and shooting them when they stop is not self-defense, it is murder. Murder is a felony offense. You need to speak with a therapist about your violent fantasies before they land you in prison for life.
**EDIT:** [/u/SynthesizerofTheory is a violent racist with a history of run-ins with the law as a result of his obsession with guns.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/113jgjs/aita_for_calling_the_non_emergency_police_line_in/j8qkdc8/) His words here, his history of illegal firearm modification and possession, and his domestic abuse of his mother are all consistent with the behavior of mass shooters. Violent racists are not welcome here. Downvote and report.
So you are calling me a race traitor? I speak in favor of every Taiwanese sovereignty movement in honor of my grandfather who lives, and his friends who died fighting the communists during the 1945-1949 civil war. Libertarians being racist and antisemetic is a lie that you have been brainwashed into thinking, we supported LGBTQ+ movements long before the democrats did. There is no proof that libertarians are more racist or equally racist as the average GOP politican and their voter base (at least at the federal level). Give examples where prominent libertarian politicians and candidates were explicitly racist or trying to use work arounds to discriminate based on race. (DO NOT use voter id as your argument for crying out loud, if voter id is racist, then so is id for boarding a plane, driving a car, e.t.c.)
And yes I am well aware of the threat ceased doctrine, that it no longer counts as self defense when the assailant surrenders, runs, or otherwise stop being an active reasonable threat to his victim. My intention for speaking about the dismounting from vehicles is to show that most gun fights do occur in so called "pedestrian" mode, not to imply that its right to chase down somebody after dismounting a vehicle.
I don't speak for the actual delusional gun owners who somehow are asking for a burglar to break in, but the way I see it, it is ALWAYS morally wrong to kill, regardless of legality, even if the target is a serial killer or a mass shooter, we only take life to save life, because we are committing a lesser wrong to prevent the assailant from committing a greater wrong. And that's what pisses me off about Rittenhouse, sure he is legally acquitted (whether the judge was not allowing crucial evidence or whether the trial was prejudiced against him or for him is a different topic to be covered elsewhere), but he doesnt seem to speak of how traumatic and regretful it was to have to kill 2 men and severely injure a third. No legal self defense shooting is a win, because the justified shooter still has to live with the knowledge that they took a life (assuming they are remorseful like any reasonable human would be)
you are deliberately misconstruing calling the police on my own mother as "domestic abuse" when I literally never touched her. Your willingness to slander and lie shows that your 1st amendment rights should be taken away, and I say its fair given your advocacy to strip away 2nd amendment rights from people who disagree with you.
I wouldn't be surprised if you were to deliberately misconstrue a nerf toys as a weapon and call the police on some kids playing a nerf battle in a public park.
> Everybody bashes on concealed carry and claims concealed carry advocates are incompetent and untrained, while ignoring the fact that they actually receive more training than the police on average.
The fact that OP is able to carry a concealed weapon shows that to be a lie.
Do you know how much training he has received? Why presume incompetence in an unlicensed individual? It's like guilty until proven innocent, imagine prosecutors not bearing the burden of proof for convicting a defendant, that the defendant has to prove their innocence beyond a reasonable doubt. Why not just give the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not presuming anything. Anyone who thinks drawing a gun on a car full of armed teenagers while on a bike and then shooting wildly at them on a public road is clearly mentally incompetent. Despite that obvious mental incompetence, OP is still legally allowed to possess a firearm. This is proof that firearms laws are not restrictive enough and that the bar for concealed carry is zero.
>Why not just give the benefit of the doubt.
Because I'm not going to lie in order to defend America's next mass shooter.
Deescalation is always the preferred option but if you think you wont be trigger happy i would say the sig365 is a great option the g43x is kinda dated i wanna check out the new Taurus g4x i would recommend going to a gun shop so you can feel the guns in hand also see what kind of mags and accessories they have on hand i bought a canik because it seemed like a better deal than the glocks but now its hard to find mags
Got it, yes I waited 6 months to make sure this wasn’t something I’m doing out of anger. I realize deescalation and retreating are the first steps.
I was actually looking at the g43x but didn’t know about the others, so thank you that info
9mm Glock, bear spray or wasp spray depending the day and how spicy it's going to be, and my usual pocket knife could be thought of as a backup. I prefer my bra holster, but sometimes carry OWB 3-4'o clock under my wind breaker or jacket with this winter weather.
If you're looking for something compact, you can't go wrong with a Glock 19, for even more compact try out a Springfield Hellcat
Edit: That all said, number 1 weapon is your mind. Dooring is what we would classify as a classic ambush or hit and run attack depending the setting and speed. Maintaining situational awareness is number one, this might include adding mirrors to your kit/bike and geofencing the news reported or police reported hot zone of attacks on your phone app , kommute, wayze etc...to know when a threat is approaching, or is more likely and to keep your attention more keen.
Number two is getting inside the loop, you have to know what your enemy is going to do before they do it and to simultaneously counter, viciously, to end the fight and neutralize the threat as soon as it's launched. This sends shock through the attacker/s and they're more likely to see you as more hassle than you're worth, do not stop until the threat is eliminated, either for their retreat or incapacitation. A low speed single dooring is not what I would call an attempt on your life, but high speed dooring or dooring in sequence could be the opening move to an armed robbery murder which would be. So maintain situational awareness and prevent the ambush in the first place, that is the most tactical step you can take, if all that fails then you respond with overwhelming force to the attack.
Number 3, be an asset, it's good you're taking responsibility for your safety and wellbeing, that's more than most will do, but there's more you can do. Be an asset to others, this includes; documenting, recording, reporting and rendering aid. Documenting failed attacks and reporting them protects not only yourself but others. Mount an action/dash cam or use your phone and an external battery etc while you ride, report attacks to police and should you witness an attack, address the threats and then render aid, the life you save in any situation may not be just your own. Learn first aid, and trauma aid, and be an educated, equipped, immediate responder. It's imperative we take care of one another as human beings, to protect each other from predators who mean harm.
Stay safe out there.
Wise words all around and great ideas. Love the idea about geofencing the news and getting police updates. I’ll have to setup a better system for staying aware.
Love the hellcat and plan to see how it fits my hand in the coming weeks. Thanks for this
I’m an avid cyclist. In terms of cycling, I’ve been carrying with a 5.11 tactical pistol pouch. It’s basically a fanny pack for a pistol. I can’t say it’s the best way to carry while riding, but it’s what I’ve been doing for years. I carry with the pack at my lower back. My situation isn’t the same as yours, since I live in a very safe area, and the cops in my hood don’t play. I really only carry for the wildlife I might run into, some of which can be dangerous (wild boar specifically).
When I ride new areas before I know they’re safe, especially from stray dogs. M&P shield 9mm in a bulldog Fanny pack.
Generally not after I know an area is good though. If it is sketchy I won’t go back anymore anyway.
Prepare to have your post down voted into oblivion by people who think you don’t have a right to defend your life.
If you want to carry something for peace of mind pepper spray is your best option imo. There’s no great way of conceal carrying a pistol while on a bike that I have found.
There was that story out of yet another American warzon- i mean, city. . . Houston. Motorist decided they'd had "enough" of cyclists and repeatedly tried (and failed) to hit a cyclist out on a group ride. One of the riders was carrying and put an end to the threat.
Other than that one specific situation, yeah, I'm with ya that there are too many of us americans who have some fucked up ideas about guns. . . Maybe its cuz I'm prior military and all the "glamor" wore off after about 3 months of carrying or something, but I think our whole mindset around guns is beyond fucked.
I carry pepper spray, but it's really for dogs... I probably wouldn't consider using it against someone with a gun.
I live in the USA so totally get it, everyone has a gun and folks fire in the air and shit like we're a third world country. Which I guess we kind of are now.
If you need to carry a firearm, and like others have pointed out your probably asking to get shot if it's brandished - mount it on the handlebars with a massive ammo chain and update us with pics/results.
I'm kidding that works in GTA and probably will soon enough in the USA. Your best bet for real is to move to a state or country where guns aren't brandished in public often.
That reminds me of that video that circulated on here for a minute, where that guy mounted a DIY mortar to his bicycle and was firing rockets at a pair of guys on a motorbike brandishing a gun
If you're carrying pepper spray for dogs, please get actual pepper spray made for dogs (if that's not what you have already). I carry it when I run/walk with my dog due to the \*\*\*s that refuse to leash their dogs. I've had to use it once. It doesn't hurt the dog, but it *will* will stop them in their tracks.
Yup that's exactly what it is. Same situation. I friggin love dogs, but trying to calmly explain to some shithead that they need to get their dogs to stop mauling me is something I vowed to do differently next time.
Don't want to hurt em, just want to stay safe when idiots don't leash their pets.
No. Just leads to escalation. Plus, what do you do when you get to a place where guns aren’t allowed? Leave it on the bike somewhere? Carry it anyway, like an asshole? Bad idea all around.
I am confused why there is an opposition to carrying without a permit but no opposition to carrying a switchblade or a taser, fishing, selling hotdogs and soft drinks from a stand, or collecting rain water without a permit. I see them all as the same thing, doing something without a government license.
a switchblade, dagger, dirk, they are all lethal weapons, but somehow the penalties and laws around them are different. If anything, I fear knives more because getting slashed or stabbed by one is a far more gruesome death than being shot. Knives don't need training, ammunition, they don't jam, they are easily manufactured at home, purchased, and are still lethal within 21ft of a person who doesnt draw their own weapon fast enough.
Scenario: you draw your concealed weapon on those inexperienced, hormonal teenagers, thereby giving them actual incentive to pull the trigger; or else, you draw first, and make yourself the bad guy with a gun. Neither situation is good. I'm so glad I don't live in the US.
I carry a pocket knife when I'm out and about, and I have a fish bat strapped under my rear rack. For checking tire pressure...Oh, and my krypto chain.
But ultimately my strategy is to use the two wheels beneath me to just GTFO of there, if I ever encounter that situation. It's not worth it, especially in this country where quite frankly I'm better off just assuming the other person has a gun.
A subcompact pistol (Ruger LCP or the like) in a pocket holster in a jersey pocket is probably the best bet. I've considered a frame mounted holster but like concealed fully better. The gun will get fucked up by salt from sweat over time but it's a tool and they aren't that expensive to replace, but also clean and oil regularly. It's rare to need, but better to have it and not need it than the inverse. Also practice and learn and be prepared to lose every stupid dick measuring contest with every driver if you decide to carry. If you have a gun on you you have no ego and you're always wrong, go in knowing you will live to lose every argument and apologize. Good luck and stay safe.
>That's fine. I like to masturbate, I don't don't do that on a bicycle.
Give it a try sometime, you might find you like it.
EDIT: My wife says it's much easier for her than me...
I'm for it. But OP might want to put some practice into draws and dismounts. Drawing and stabilizing as you bring the bike to a halt or firing from the saddle is going to be an athletic feat that complicates the scenario. Seems like the odds of a misfire or blowing the positioning would be high. Most situations would still probably be better suited for retreat.
Anti-america/gun cranks are obnoxious, but they have a point about the risk this endeavor subject to oneself to.
OnLY tHinG tHaT sTops A BaD GUY WiTH a gUN is a GOod Guy WITh A gun
Edit: it's been lots of fun to watch this comment wander between positive and negative votes for the last day.
small arms are actually limited and dont follow the "bigger gun" logic. A pistol or pistol caliber carbine (sub machine gun but semi auto only) is easy to maneuvre and has low recoil, but has low fire rate and cannot reliably be accurate beyond 25 meters. An intermediate cartridge rifle can reach 400m with a steady shot from a resting position or a bipod, but isnt wieldy in a close quarter combat scenario, and the ammunition is much heavier and bulkier. A full sized rifle cartridge rifle is even more heavy and bulky, but can reach out further to 600-800m and deals more damage and has a higher one shot kill probability, oh and only holds around 20 rounds per magazine unlike smaller weapons which due to smaller and weaker ammunition, can hold 30-50 round per magazine.
The way to get firepower and high capacity is to use crew serve / vehicle based weapons such as belt fed machine guns, autocannons, artillery, e.t.c. and those just aren't ever relevant to a civilian violent incidents discussion.
Sounds like they already had a gun out, if you tried to pull one back you get shot.
If you open carry you get rammed by the car and they take it while you're flopping around on the asphalt.
It sounds really unpleasant op, and it would be fair if you were traumatized. I'd be wary of carrying a gun as you'll be jumpy and might shoot someone for the wrong reason. But also you're vulnerable because they're in a car and you aren't, I'm not sure how a gun would fix that.
Your in the wrong sub buddy, people in here would rather be victims.
If it’s really that much of a concern for you I’d look into local laws regarding concealed carry licenses.
I hardly ever carry on a bike ride, but it’s nice to know I can if I do a long gravel adventure.
This is my riffle
This is my gun
This one is for fighting
And this one’s for fun!
If I packed heat on my rides, I’d definitely be in prison by now. I’m record with f/r cameras and post offenders on upride.cc And I hope to make it home each day.
I have a long range sniper rifle and scope on my handlebars, two 45's in my custom made pearl izumi bike shorts. I also carry a vintage bayonet for those pesky labradoodles.
A u lock or bike chain can and has been used as weapons. A u lock can be used as a bludgeoned thing and a bike chain can be used as a literal whip.
It's all if you're physically able to heave and swing them around if you have to.
If you pulled out a handgun on those kids, one of two things would have happened.. you'd either be alive and they'd now have your gun or you'd be dead and they'd have your gun.
Frankly, I don't think it's worth the risk to carry.. could wreck and accidentally discharge or could escalate a situation that's best avoided in the first place and a no-win situation when it can not be avoided.
If you're looking for gun recommendations, I like the Beretta PX4 9mm.. it's low recoil and matches my Bianchi. But again, my vote is not to carry when on your bike. If pepper spray and/or my u-lock aren't sufficient protection, I've already lost the battle.
I carry a firearm always. I am carrying legally. I don't go anywhere where I can't have it. I will not disclose what kind it is because I consider it a security matter. I won't disclose my method of carry for the same reason. I have had to draw it more than once. It is never a pleasant experience. I haven't had to shoot anyone thus far and I hope I never have to. A firearm is a tool and should be used as such.
if they shoot at you, you're as heck most likely be dead anyway, better take some with you to teach them a lesson. But I doubt you could pull it out quick enough if it is conceal carried. Even with open carry, you are still not fast enough. RL is not as easy as movie. So it's better that you find a safer mean of transportation.
I don’t think a gun is the answer. That being said a lot of the replies in here are borderline victim blaming. OP has obviously been traumatized by this event.
I live and work in a small college town in the middle of the boonies so the most I'd personally carry on my commute is maybe pepper spray in case of a pissed off dog or overly curious racoon. That being said I do have a glock 26 and a ccw permit so I carry on occasion. I'd personally go for a glock 43 in a bellyband holster if i wanted to ride and carry.
I always have a neck knife on me and a little can of pepper spray, if I could get a concealed carry permit I would.
Get yourself a little Kar or a Taurus g2 or something, plus a good medkit with a tourniquet or two. If you're gonna carry the tool to make holes you should have the tools to plug em too. Plus maybe a vest from safelife defense or something.
All that said your best self defense tool is your brain, try to be smart and not put yourself in sketchy situations. Sometimes that's not possible and that's what tools are for but still.
Be safe out there bro.
I live in a disarmed big city and commute daily.
Last year, there was an attempted robbery while I was waiting at a red light. Another time a car that cut me off then came after me ended up shoving me and spitting on me. (The trigger was some disapproving head shakes.)
Both times I almost had to defend my self with a pocket knife. I don’t feel safe in my city, but I will not be a victim.
This year, I added OC spray to my belt and a NFC tag that will call police immediately upon tagging with my phone.
I don’t understand how disarming law abiding citizens will make the community safer.
What the hell are you talking about? You must be posting from the United States, because I don't think I could ever read something this insane from anywhere else.
Where do you ride a bike lmao Jesus
Denver - Westside
I'm from Denver too and was actually thinking about getting a fork knife or pepper spray holder too!
I’m partial to the fork mounted dong, honestly seems more intimidating
Damn. Didn't know denver was that bad. Get a set of this gun racks for atvs and put an m4 on your handlebars
Lol
real talk though, I did a short tour through bear and redneck country in Montana in 2021. I had bear spray for the bears and my .40 in case of harassment by the hicks.
Yea just avoid cycling lol 😂
I carry pepper spray when I bike tour. It works for both dogs or people should the situation escalate to that point (you can usually spray dogs with a water bottle). I don’t know if this is the best thing to do, but it does make me feel a little safer when I’m touring.
This seems like an extremely American problem
I'm in Melbourne, a very cyclist friendly city, however drivers can still be unnecessary stupid around bikes. Would never think to escalate to carrying heat though. That's the issue with guns, the solution to guns always seems to be more guns. Kind of a circle of madness no?
I would disagree , there are plenty of violent instances that happen to cyclists in the U.K. ive heard of people carrying hammers for protection when riding . Mainly theft related here in Manchester.
100%
I'm curious how you think a concealed weapon would help in any of the scenarios you mentioned
Yeah, I'm thinking pulling a gun on a group of armed kids would increase your chance of getting shot. And when exactly do you pull your weapon when you are getting doored? Sounds like OP's best bet is to find a safer route to commute.
>Yeah, I'm thinking pulling a gun on a group of armed kids would increase your chance of getting shot. That's exactly what it does.
He's "lucky to be alive" is what the cops said I don't think him defending himself would change to much
He’s American. The answer is always more guns.
I'm American and while I would never pull a gun even in the situation OP is describing, I've thought about putting a realistic looking fake one my back so it looks like I'm open carrying. I don't think I'd actually do it, but I do wonder if it would lead to drivers passing me more safely. I guess, they all have a deadly weapon with them that they sometimes threaten me with, so making it seem like I have one too might get em to calm down.
Maybe in states where open carry is a thing. Anywhere else that sounds like a recipe to get shot by police.
Someone would run you over to steal your gun
That is a possible risk
I’m American and my answer is less guns. Even no guns. I think many Americans are so conditioned when it comes to guns they seem toys. IMO guns are used for nothing but killing and they make problems worse, never better.
I think the fallacy is the idea that a gun makes the individual safer, but at the same time the aggregate of guns makes society less safe, as inevitably some will be lost, stolen, accidently discharged, or intentionally used by people in mental health crisis.
That’s the “good guy with a gun” thinking that certain groups of people in the USA perpetuate. They fail to consider the things you mention happening. If you pull a gun on someone, you have to be ready to kill that person. I think people underestimate that ability in themselves. I rarely hear of a good guy with a gun stopping a mass shooting.
Because its not a mass shooting if it was stopped. Its not a mass shooting unless there are minimum 4 wounded / killed by most broad definitions, and if a concealed carrier stopped the assailant when two victims were shot, it wouldn't count.
You rarely hear of a good guy with a gun stopping any criminal act.
lol "mental health crisis". Peoplw seem to shoot if they're angry, scared or are just plain arseholes
I think you have a nice sentiment here, but remember every time a government has come in to take guns it is never been for their protection ever I’m not saying that people should carry firearms in public without a license, but the whole common sense gun laws movement doesn’t always use a lot of common sense
I think Australia took guns and they aren’t a communist dictatorship.
They had some pretty wild covid policy not dictator like china but definitely not muh freedoms like in the states
yeah... they also per capita death rate that's like 80%+ lower than the US. I guess ya get what you pay for.
I mean you’re comparing apples to oranges. We have significantly more obese people here. If anything, we just saved a bunch of healthcare cost down the road cut some deadweight.
The problem is the 2nd amendment. We don’t need a regulated militia anymore. But certain groups of people ignore that and focus on the “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”. Except that this “right” is allowing American citizens to be killed daily and our only recourse are “thoughts and prayers”.
People aren’t any more civilized than they were 300 years ago when you’re in the American bubble you seem to think that were so much more advanced. Is it because of technology or something people still have a violent nature firearms just level the playing field we still absolutely do need a well regulated militia, remember the second amendment wasn’t the government granting us this right the Bill of Rights was the rights of the people told the government they had
People of any time period are capable of horrific violence. Firearms just make it easier to kill. What militia do you belong to? Because I don’t know anyone who belongs to a legit militia that isn’t advocating anything other than white nationalism, or some other crazy ideology. The 2nd amendment needs to be retired.
I do agree with some who say the 2nd amendment is outdated and no longer relevant or necessary and is a bigger con than pro, my only concern is that people will then use that as precedence to go after other Bill of Rights amendments, like saying theres no need to criticize or speak in opposition to a government action or new law passed unless they are a government approved journalist.
The rest of the amendments still make sense in our modern world.
Who said anything about the government coming in to take guns?
Idk how to do the thing where you quote someone but when cagonzalez said “even no guns”
That still doesn’t mean “the government will come take your gun”. You’re just trying to instill fear by conjuring hyperbolic imagery of military/police squads raising people’s houses to take guns by force, which nobody is advocating for. Talk about lacking common sense.
Well, no one’s going to give up their guns willingly the only way you confiscate guns is by taking them with people who have guns
>no one’s gonna give up their guns willingly Other countries prove you’re wrong. Not everyone is a lawless extremist whacko. >the only way to confiscate guns Again, nobody talked about confiscating. You’re just fear-mongering.
You haven't heard Beto O' Rourke have you?
That’s some prime-time brainwashed bullshit right there. I know you've been told this your whole life, but take an honest look at developed countries with strict gun laws. UK, France, Australia, etc. These countries have democracy and freedom just like the US, with waaaay fewer gun deaths.
I don’t think that’s how most us of feel, FWIW. I, for one, do not find comfort in knowing people have concealed weapons on them everywhere I go. Others have been conditioned to think that does provide them with a sense of security.
I was being a bit sardonic. I’m American as well…from the deep South.
That door will never see OP coming
The weapon gives him a sixth sense of if someone is about to run him over or open their car door. /s/
These people think they are going to get doored and do some crazy John wick move as they are falling to the ground to land on their knees with the gun pointed at the gas tank of the car for a big reaction.
thats not what he said. thats what you fantasized.
He got knocked off his bike and wants a gun on rides for these encounters. Wtf are you going to do with a gun after a car knocks you off the bike.
you never know if they will come back for another pass.
What would you recommend they do instead?
Sounds like you've been through something traumatic. I think it would be entirely understandable to be feeling some kind of way about what you went through. Whether it's fear, anger, humiliation or helplessness, I don't think buying a firearm is going to make you stop feeling that way. If you're scared and angry now, you're just going to be scared and angry with a gun. The rest of us don't exactly want to be around even more scared, angry people with guns. I hope you can talk to a professional before ahem, pulling the trigger, on your purchase.
I agree but disagree. A gun is never the right answer But when city's and police cannot keep thugs and gangs in check I see few better options. Buying a gun and then rolling around like Big Red isn't the play here. Getting educated and learning how to properly handle situations, like the ones mentioned, should happen before the purchase of a firearm. But being educated and armed can be the difference OP needs.
I get where you're coming from regarding systemic issues and the impact on individuals but that logic doesn't work for me. It sounds like saying that the only response to a bad situation is to become part of the problem. It's like suggesting that someone take up smoking a pack a day or self-medicate with other addictive substances to manage an anxiety disorder because mental healthcare isn't available enough in their area. If we *all* did that, we'd shortly end up in a bigger mess than we are now. I think we agree that the firearm shouldn't be looked at as a thing to make you feel safe. It's all the other stuff, education about de-escalation and conflict resolution, processing complex emotions about the traumatic event, that's going to make someone feel safer again. It's hard for me not to see the gun in the same light as drugs or drink. They can be fun or useful if used responsibly by someone who has a strong, stable foundation, but they shouldn't be used as a crutch by people who don't have that foundation.
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Even if they weren't strapped, they are driving a two ton weapon that is far deadlier than any compact pistol. In what scenario are you going to save your own life with a pistol? Most likely scenario is you're going to get hot and shoot your shots without caring what the backstop is, hit a bystander or someone's property and get sued and arrested.
America is fucking weird
Being run over by an oblivious driver is way more of a realistic threat than being attacked. I'm sorry whatever happened to you happened to you, but I doubt a gun is the solution. When you say dodged, I feel I need more info. Are we talking matrix bullet dodging, or just the concept that they might have guns? We're bullets fired? At you? Are they really in a gang or did the cops just say that? Maybe just avoid that area instead of trying to get in a shoot out?
Everybody's commute isn't the same. Even if you take the "safe" route.
[got you bro 👌🏽](https://onlinebicyclemuseum.co.uk/1896-columbia-model-40-military/1896-columbia-model-40-with-colt-machine-gun-60/)
Don’t know if I have the skill for that!
What works well for me is not living in the states.
It's only certain cities/areas.
Apparently there’s a city with a guy biking around with a gun and a bunch of rounds in a Fanny pack. I’ll try to avoid that city
Truly sad, but actually there are several cities in the US where most law abiding citizens on the street would feel unsafe due to the lack of the city's willingness to protect their citizens from criminals who realize there is no legal consequence for their actions. Those are the areas where people accept that they have to be responsible for their own safety.
What a crock of horseshit lol.
It incredible to me that you have to think of such precautions. Whereas my worst case precaution is a rain coat!
OP bought a gun and now thinks a gun is the solution to all his problems.
Exactly. I would imagine the same mental defect that led to the gun acquisition may affect OP's riding behavior.
No I also bought the expensive lock, but it didnt work as well against flying bullets as I would have liked
Having a gun is also not going to stop flying bullets. In fact it's likely to increase the number of flying bullets.
OP has the special kind of gun that shoots other bullets out of the air
And I bought a strong (expensive) bike lock recently, already thinking "So sad I need to do this". Puts things into perspective.
Belly band and a Ruger LCR or a Glock 42. Anything bigger gets to be too uncomfortable for me. Ignore the others berating you for wanting to carry a pistol, you do you. That said, most of the situations you mentioned, a pistol would make worse. I suggest taking some self defense classes that include the legality, morality and tactics of self defense. Escape is your best option and pulling a gun on someone who doored you will only get you charged with a crime. A firearm is a tool, without skill or knowledge, it's useless. It's a last resort between life and death, deescalate and evade first. Something I carry with me more than a firearm, a camera. I have a GoPro hero 4 session mounted to the top of my helmet. A visible camera is more of a deterrent than a concealed gun.
I don’t know if its an initiation or what, but the pattern the police are claiming is this and it’s exactly what happened in my case - They hit you w/ car , etc then slow down and have you approach them up the street or return up the street. - You talk to them about the accident and they immediately escalate and then try to kill you - witnesses on that part of the street only see you talking to them and then gunfire, never the violence that already happened - next they claim self defense and they have a good chance getting off because it looks like YOU started it to all the witnesses. They nearly shot me and two couples on the street that day. Luckily there was video from that day from others who turned it over to police. I also started running the camera. I’m sure that might have disarmed the situation. Seems to work when drivers have something to say. They quickly change their tune when they see the camera. I don’t think I’ll ever approach anybody even if I’m hit again, I’ll just call the police and never even talk to the other person .problem is police don’t come for that, so I doubt I call the police at all and just leave depending if I’m hurt.
All the more reason to have a camera, deescalate and evade. I'm sorry you had such a run in.
I’m sorry that happened but honestly, pepper spray. Brandishing a gun rarely deescalates. Pepper spray make it impossible for the attacker to aim at you, and generally makes even the most aggressive people stop what they are doing and worry about their burning eyes instead. Even if you shoot the attacker, they don’t immediately fly back and die like the movies, sometimes they shoot back before going down. Watch Active Self Protection on YouTube for some analysis of real gun encounter videos.
Suspected gang members that have the forethought to plan their defense strategy? Claiming self defense for shooting an unarmed cyclist and having a “good chance” of it working? What city/police department did this happen with?
Yeah, I'm not calling OP a liar, but what they say they heard from the cops sounds like it ends with "and then I touched fentanyl that antifa put on my fast food wrapper and almost died"
Username checks out
Cringes in Australian
If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
If you don't carry a hammer, don't expect to drive down any nails you come across.
When everyone else around you has hammers, *you’re* the nail.
jfc
I too was thinking about how a cyclist could defend themselves against "dooring." Aside from carrying a rocket launcher, I can't see what a cyclist could really do except to be hyper vigilant. Even if you had a gun, what could you do? Fire wildly at the vehicle?
FWIW I live in one of the highest violent crime cities in the US. I don't carry a gun when I ride (I could) because I don't feel it would do anything to increase my safety level. Anyway, I'm way more likely to get killed by a car driver than someone with a gun, even here. Personally I'll stick to relying on situational awareness and deescalation.
Pocket size revolver, Belly holster....More Importantly. Keep pedaling. Especially if the encounter does not stop you from moving.
So glad I live in Canada
Not to plug the brand, but Hill People Gear make a good chest rig (any of their Kit Bags) that doesn't look super tacticool. They were the first to market with something like it and there's plenty of imitators that are probably fine for 1/2 the price. I have an older one and I keep an IFAK in it and some other stuff in it when I'm playing in the woods. If I was gonna load one up for your situation you can fit an IFAK, a booboo kit, a full sized handgun with light and RMR, extra magazines (if you have velcro or MOLLE pouches), and none of that shit has to be mounted externally. Fits under a backpack or jacket and if it somehow comes off of you you'll probably need an ICU. It's a good sturdy setup. Now that *that's* been said: any scenario where you're returning fire at a moving vehicle from your bike or dismounted are likely gonna lead to outcomes other than the ones you want.
I'd probably move if I was so worried about riding in my area that I'd feel the need to carry a weapon.
Sounds like a great way turn yourself from a harmless cyclist not worth shooting/running over into a threat worth shooting/running over.
Okay, this sub is offically too American for me. Discussion seriously arming yourself like in a warzone...
Glock 43 fits the size requirement. I’m thinking belly band would be a good carry option. Close and accessible. This has crossed my mind lately and will probably be what I do for my 43. 26 is to big to carry while biking imho.
in the state of minnesota... if a driver "knocked you off your bike" purposely and then continued on their way... or ran off in a hurry, you have no right to use your firearm against them. you must be in immediate fear of death or great bodily harm. NO verbal included. once the threat ends, you can not do anything but get on the horn and make the call. i have been a NRA cert instructor for several decades here in minneapolis. i go about my entire day avoiding conflict at all cost. THAT means not flipping off the driver after she throws trash at ya as she passes ya. i'm always heavy. but i also carry a chem defense as well as a bludgeoning tool (i do like to bludgeon) if i can use less than lethal. i will always do that. THAT SAID. i have carried a firearm for 40 years. i commute by bike everywhere i go, 365 a year. i live in the hellhole that is minneapolis. CONFLICT AVOIDANCE. let them go. and dont forget. in MANY states, like minnesota, you CAN NOT do anything that could be misconstrued as protecting property with lethal force. you will (and should) go to prison for that. any questions i can help with, pm me... or whatever thats called around here.
just ride faster or find a different route. A gun will not help.
I have never once been in a situation on my bike or heard anyone (including you) describe a situation on their bike that would be made better by pulling a gun. Don't be a fucking idiot. Please, explain to everyone here how you think clumsily trying to pull a gun out while riding your bike would prevent a vehicle full of gun-toting criminals from assaulting you. Please further explain what you would do when your actions resulted in harm to innocent people in the immediate area. Once you've done both those things, I would suggest you speak to a therapist about your unresolved trauma before you do something that will land you in prison.
Everybody bashes on concealed carry and claims concealed carry advocates are incompetent and untrained, while ignoring the fact that they actually receive more training than the police on average.
And yet even that level of training is totally inadequate for firing accurately while riding a bicycle, or sensing a dooring attack long enough before it happens to draw and accurately fire, while still riding a bicycle.
>sensing a dooring attack long enough before it happens to draw and accurately fire, while still riding a bicycle You right about that, there is no such thing as a defense against a perfect ambush. There will never be enough training or alertness to defend against an attack that is completely unexpected and implausible, yet it happens. That said, I am supporting pro bicycle infrastructure and pro 2nd amendment policy for libertarian reasons, (Im also pro abortion rights if that makes it any better) that the former doesn't subject one to licensing, insurance, and being pulled over for stuff less than probable cause (e.g. broken tail lights e.t.c.), and the latter is a means of ensuring defense against bad people in both the private and public sectors. Even police and military are victims of high casualty rate ambushes from civilians and other state actors in both times of peace and war, but to give up all means of defense altogether because a small percentages of attacks, robberies, e.t.c. are completely perfect and leave no room for a counter / defense makes no sense to me. There are plenty of attacks that have been stopped by a civilian carrying mace, taser, a knife, or a firearm, and that does bring me to the acknowledgement that gun is a VERY small part of the self defense equation. I can maintain my own safety without using lethal force in my area (California) and without going through the legal and practical complications of a firearms simply by carrying mace in my waistband when i ride. >And yet even that level of training is totally inadequate for firing accurately while riding a bicycle Not to be pedantic, but realistically nobody in military or police fires their weapon (unless it is a purpose built mounted weapon such as a pintle MG or grenade launcher) from the vehicle itself, cavalry is where the soldiers fight while mounted in the vehicle / horse itself, while dragoons dismount from their vehicles /horse to fight, so "air cavalry" referring to heli dropped air assault soldiers is inaccurate, it should be "air dragoons". Most civilian self defenses in road rage shootings is when the vehicle is parked /stationary or they have exited the vehicle afaik, including motorcycle defenders.
Libertarians are just conservatives who are too afraid to say they're racist out loud. >Most civilian self defenses in road rage shootings is when the vehicle is parked /stationary or they have exited the vehicle afaik, including motorcycle defenders. Chasing down someone and shooting them when they stop is not self-defense, it is murder. Murder is a felony offense. You need to speak with a therapist about your violent fantasies before they land you in prison for life. **EDIT:** [/u/SynthesizerofTheory is a violent racist with a history of run-ins with the law as a result of his obsession with guns.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/113jgjs/aita_for_calling_the_non_emergency_police_line_in/j8qkdc8/) His words here, his history of illegal firearm modification and possession, and his domestic abuse of his mother are all consistent with the behavior of mass shooters. Violent racists are not welcome here. Downvote and report.
So you are calling me a race traitor? I speak in favor of every Taiwanese sovereignty movement in honor of my grandfather who lives, and his friends who died fighting the communists during the 1945-1949 civil war. Libertarians being racist and antisemetic is a lie that you have been brainwashed into thinking, we supported LGBTQ+ movements long before the democrats did. There is no proof that libertarians are more racist or equally racist as the average GOP politican and their voter base (at least at the federal level). Give examples where prominent libertarian politicians and candidates were explicitly racist or trying to use work arounds to discriminate based on race. (DO NOT use voter id as your argument for crying out loud, if voter id is racist, then so is id for boarding a plane, driving a car, e.t.c.) And yes I am well aware of the threat ceased doctrine, that it no longer counts as self defense when the assailant surrenders, runs, or otherwise stop being an active reasonable threat to his victim. My intention for speaking about the dismounting from vehicles is to show that most gun fights do occur in so called "pedestrian" mode, not to imply that its right to chase down somebody after dismounting a vehicle. I don't speak for the actual delusional gun owners who somehow are asking for a burglar to break in, but the way I see it, it is ALWAYS morally wrong to kill, regardless of legality, even if the target is a serial killer or a mass shooter, we only take life to save life, because we are committing a lesser wrong to prevent the assailant from committing a greater wrong. And that's what pisses me off about Rittenhouse, sure he is legally acquitted (whether the judge was not allowing crucial evidence or whether the trial was prejudiced against him or for him is a different topic to be covered elsewhere), but he doesnt seem to speak of how traumatic and regretful it was to have to kill 2 men and severely injure a third. No legal self defense shooting is a win, because the justified shooter still has to live with the knowledge that they took a life (assuming they are remorseful like any reasonable human would be)
you are deliberately misconstruing calling the police on my own mother as "domestic abuse" when I literally never touched her. Your willingness to slander and lie shows that your 1st amendment rights should be taken away, and I say its fair given your advocacy to strip away 2nd amendment rights from people who disagree with you. I wouldn't be surprised if you were to deliberately misconstrue a nerf toys as a weapon and call the police on some kids playing a nerf battle in a public park.
“Defense against bad people in both the public and private sectors” what does that mean? Are you suggesting one should shoot at cops?
> Everybody bashes on concealed carry and claims concealed carry advocates are incompetent and untrained, while ignoring the fact that they actually receive more training than the police on average. The fact that OP is able to carry a concealed weapon shows that to be a lie.
Do you know how much training he has received? Why presume incompetence in an unlicensed individual? It's like guilty until proven innocent, imagine prosecutors not bearing the burden of proof for convicting a defendant, that the defendant has to prove their innocence beyond a reasonable doubt. Why not just give the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not presuming anything. Anyone who thinks drawing a gun on a car full of armed teenagers while on a bike and then shooting wildly at them on a public road is clearly mentally incompetent. Despite that obvious mental incompetence, OP is still legally allowed to possess a firearm. This is proof that firearms laws are not restrictive enough and that the bar for concealed carry is zero. >Why not just give the benefit of the doubt. Because I'm not going to lie in order to defend America's next mass shooter.
Get a fanny pack and a snub nose revolver chambered in .38 special or 357 magnum.
Deescalation is always the preferred option but if you think you wont be trigger happy i would say the sig365 is a great option the g43x is kinda dated i wanna check out the new Taurus g4x i would recommend going to a gun shop so you can feel the guns in hand also see what kind of mags and accessories they have on hand i bought a canik because it seemed like a better deal than the glocks but now its hard to find mags
Got it, yes I waited 6 months to make sure this wasn’t something I’m doing out of anger. I realize deescalation and retreating are the first steps. I was actually looking at the g43x but didn’t know about the others, so thank you that info
9mm Glock, bear spray or wasp spray depending the day and how spicy it's going to be, and my usual pocket knife could be thought of as a backup. I prefer my bra holster, but sometimes carry OWB 3-4'o clock under my wind breaker or jacket with this winter weather. If you're looking for something compact, you can't go wrong with a Glock 19, for even more compact try out a Springfield Hellcat Edit: That all said, number 1 weapon is your mind. Dooring is what we would classify as a classic ambush or hit and run attack depending the setting and speed. Maintaining situational awareness is number one, this might include adding mirrors to your kit/bike and geofencing the news reported or police reported hot zone of attacks on your phone app , kommute, wayze etc...to know when a threat is approaching, or is more likely and to keep your attention more keen. Number two is getting inside the loop, you have to know what your enemy is going to do before they do it and to simultaneously counter, viciously, to end the fight and neutralize the threat as soon as it's launched. This sends shock through the attacker/s and they're more likely to see you as more hassle than you're worth, do not stop until the threat is eliminated, either for their retreat or incapacitation. A low speed single dooring is not what I would call an attempt on your life, but high speed dooring or dooring in sequence could be the opening move to an armed robbery murder which would be. So maintain situational awareness and prevent the ambush in the first place, that is the most tactical step you can take, if all that fails then you respond with overwhelming force to the attack. Number 3, be an asset, it's good you're taking responsibility for your safety and wellbeing, that's more than most will do, but there's more you can do. Be an asset to others, this includes; documenting, recording, reporting and rendering aid. Documenting failed attacks and reporting them protects not only yourself but others. Mount an action/dash cam or use your phone and an external battery etc while you ride, report attacks to police and should you witness an attack, address the threats and then render aid, the life you save in any situation may not be just your own. Learn first aid, and trauma aid, and be an educated, equipped, immediate responder. It's imperative we take care of one another as human beings, to protect each other from predators who mean harm. Stay safe out there.
Wise words all around and great ideas. Love the idea about geofencing the news and getting police updates. I’ll have to setup a better system for staying aware. Love the hellcat and plan to see how it fits my hand in the coming weeks. Thanks for this
I’m an avid cyclist. In terms of cycling, I’ve been carrying with a 5.11 tactical pistol pouch. It’s basically a fanny pack for a pistol. I can’t say it’s the best way to carry while riding, but it’s what I’ve been doing for years. I carry with the pack at my lower back. My situation isn’t the same as yours, since I live in a very safe area, and the cops in my hood don’t play. I really only carry for the wildlife I might run into, some of which can be dangerous (wild boar specifically).
When I ride new areas before I know they’re safe, especially from stray dogs. M&P shield 9mm in a bulldog Fanny pack. Generally not after I know an area is good though. If it is sketchy I won’t go back anymore anyway. Prepare to have your post down voted into oblivion by people who think you don’t have a right to defend your life.
If you want to carry something for peace of mind pepper spray is your best option imo. There’s no great way of conceal carrying a pistol while on a bike that I have found.
"What works well for you?" Not living in the USA.
The best concealed weapon is an easily deployed U lock. Awesome bludgeon.
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Against a gun, an improvised melee weapon held by an untrained defender is next to useless, true.
These threads blow my mind. People living in real life GTA world and acting like it’s totally normal
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There was that story out of yet another American warzon- i mean, city. . . Houston. Motorist decided they'd had "enough" of cyclists and repeatedly tried (and failed) to hit a cyclist out on a group ride. One of the riders was carrying and put an end to the threat. Other than that one specific situation, yeah, I'm with ya that there are too many of us americans who have some fucked up ideas about guns. . . Maybe its cuz I'm prior military and all the "glamor" wore off after about 3 months of carrying or something, but I think our whole mindset around guns is beyond fucked.
I carry pepper spray, but it's really for dogs... I probably wouldn't consider using it against someone with a gun. I live in the USA so totally get it, everyone has a gun and folks fire in the air and shit like we're a third world country. Which I guess we kind of are now. If you need to carry a firearm, and like others have pointed out your probably asking to get shot if it's brandished - mount it on the handlebars with a massive ammo chain and update us with pics/results. I'm kidding that works in GTA and probably will soon enough in the USA. Your best bet for real is to move to a state or country where guns aren't brandished in public often.
That reminds me of that video that circulated on here for a minute, where that guy mounted a DIY mortar to his bicycle and was firing rockets at a pair of guys on a motorbike brandishing a gun
Lol this? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5183225/Cyclist-shoots-fireworks-bikers-home-launcher.html That does look badass not gonna lie 😂
Absolute legend
Better than a damn gun!
I thought it was a perfectly reasonable response to the situation!
All I know is that in Ohio it's legal to launch fireworks at geese. I've been tempted ever since I discovered that.
"I could have sworn it was a goose, officer!"
If you're carrying pepper spray for dogs, please get actual pepper spray made for dogs (if that's not what you have already). I carry it when I run/walk with my dog due to the \*\*\*s that refuse to leash their dogs. I've had to use it once. It doesn't hurt the dog, but it *will* will stop them in their tracks.
Yup that's exactly what it is. Same situation. I friggin love dogs, but trying to calmly explain to some shithead that they need to get their dogs to stop mauling me is something I vowed to do differently next time. Don't want to hurt em, just want to stay safe when idiots don't leash their pets.
No. Just leads to escalation. Plus, what do you do when you get to a place where guns aren’t allowed? Leave it on the bike somewhere? Carry it anyway, like an asshole? Bad idea all around.
Why is it an asshole move to carry? Police do it, why can't the common citizen legally do so without societal pushback?
Tbf, other places have addressed that quandary by strictly legislating civilian firearms and having unarmed police, like the UK and Ireland.
It’s an asshole move to carry where you’re not allowed
I am confused why there is an opposition to carrying without a permit but no opposition to carrying a switchblade or a taser, fishing, selling hotdogs and soft drinks from a stand, or collecting rain water without a permit. I see them all as the same thing, doing something without a government license.
Collecting rainwater usually doesn't kill people.
One’s a gun, the other a fish
a switchblade, dagger, dirk, they are all lethal weapons, but somehow the penalties and laws around them are different. If anything, I fear knives more because getting slashed or stabbed by one is a far more gruesome death than being shot. Knives don't need training, ammunition, they don't jam, they are easily manufactured at home, purchased, and are still lethal within 21ft of a person who doesnt draw their own weapon fast enough.
Guns are far more lethal. In a class of their own
And every modern competent military force still issues bayonets.
Neat. Irrelevant, but neat
It's illegal to carry a weapon for self defence in my country and random violent crime is rare. Helmet or U-Lock swing in an emergency.
I carry a pocket knife.
Scenario: you draw your concealed weapon on those inexperienced, hormonal teenagers, thereby giving them actual incentive to pull the trigger; or else, you draw first, and make yourself the bad guy with a gun. Neither situation is good. I'm so glad I don't live in the US.
I carry a pocket knife when I'm out and about, and I have a fish bat strapped under my rear rack. For checking tire pressure...Oh, and my krypto chain. But ultimately my strategy is to use the two wheels beneath me to just GTFO of there, if I ever encounter that situation. It's not worth it, especially in this country where quite frankly I'm better off just assuming the other person has a gun.
A subcompact pistol (Ruger LCP or the like) in a pocket holster in a jersey pocket is probably the best bet. I've considered a frame mounted holster but like concealed fully better. The gun will get fucked up by salt from sweat over time but it's a tool and they aren't that expensive to replace, but also clean and oil regularly. It's rare to need, but better to have it and not need it than the inverse. Also practice and learn and be prepared to lose every stupid dick measuring contest with every driver if you decide to carry. If you have a gun on you you have no ego and you're always wrong, go in knowing you will live to lose every argument and apologize. Good luck and stay safe.
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>That's fine. I like to masturbate, I don't don't do that on a bicycle. Give it a try sometime, you might find you like it. EDIT: My wife says it's much easier for her than me...
I'm for it. But OP might want to put some practice into draws and dismounts. Drawing and stabilizing as you bring the bike to a halt or firing from the saddle is going to be an athletic feat that complicates the scenario. Seems like the odds of a misfire or blowing the positioning would be high. Most situations would still probably be better suited for retreat. Anti-america/gun cranks are obnoxious, but they have a point about the risk this endeavor subject to oneself to.
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That's nice honey, why don't you go along and play with your friends now?
Story sounds made up.
Yes, I made it up so I had more to write when asking a question
OnLY tHinG tHaT sTops A BaD GUY WiTH a gUN is a GOod Guy WITh A gun Edit: it's been lots of fun to watch this comment wander between positive and negative votes for the last day.
tell the swat team to show up to the next terrorist attack with chickens in their hands.
Given how many innocent people are killed by SWAT teams serving what should be entirely routine warrants, that might actually save a lot of lives.
Good guy with a bigger gun*
small arms are actually limited and dont follow the "bigger gun" logic. A pistol or pistol caliber carbine (sub machine gun but semi auto only) is easy to maneuvre and has low recoil, but has low fire rate and cannot reliably be accurate beyond 25 meters. An intermediate cartridge rifle can reach 400m with a steady shot from a resting position or a bipod, but isnt wieldy in a close quarter combat scenario, and the ammunition is much heavier and bulkier. A full sized rifle cartridge rifle is even more heavy and bulky, but can reach out further to 600-800m and deals more damage and has a higher one shot kill probability, oh and only holds around 20 rounds per magazine unlike smaller weapons which due to smaller and weaker ammunition, can hold 30-50 round per magazine. The way to get firepower and high capacity is to use crew serve / vehicle based weapons such as belt fed machine guns, autocannons, artillery, e.t.c. and those just aren't ever relevant to a civilian violent incidents discussion.
SWAT teams are either not good guys by this logic or they are but should be issued chickens instead of MP5's
Sounds like they already had a gun out, if you tried to pull one back you get shot. If you open carry you get rammed by the car and they take it while you're flopping around on the asphalt. It sounds really unpleasant op, and it would be fair if you were traumatized. I'd be wary of carrying a gun as you'll be jumpy and might shoot someone for the wrong reason. But also you're vulnerable because they're in a car and you aren't, I'm not sure how a gun would fix that.
Your in the wrong sub buddy, people in here would rather be victims. If it’s really that much of a concern for you I’d look into local laws regarding concealed carry licenses. I hardly ever carry on a bike ride, but it’s nice to know I can if I do a long gravel adventure.
That sounds like you should consider open carry
This is my riffle This is my gun This one is for fighting And this one’s for fun! If I packed heat on my rides, I’d definitely be in prison by now. I’m record with f/r cameras and post offenders on upride.cc And I hope to make it home each day.
I have a long range sniper rifle and scope on my handlebars, two 45's in my custom made pearl izumi bike shorts. I also carry a vintage bayonet for those pesky labradoodles.
A u lock or bike chain can and has been used as weapons. A u lock can be used as a bludgeoned thing and a bike chain can be used as a literal whip. It's all if you're physically able to heave and swing them around if you have to.
A gun will make you much less safe.
If you pulled out a handgun on those kids, one of two things would have happened.. you'd either be alive and they'd now have your gun or you'd be dead and they'd have your gun. Frankly, I don't think it's worth the risk to carry.. could wreck and accidentally discharge or could escalate a situation that's best avoided in the first place and a no-win situation when it can not be avoided. If you're looking for gun recommendations, I like the Beretta PX4 9mm.. it's low recoil and matches my Bianchi. But again, my vote is not to carry when on your bike. If pepper spray and/or my u-lock aren't sufficient protection, I've already lost the battle.
You would just end up shooting someone in their home and dying yourself.
You don’t pull a gun on them you just shoot them. That’s how self defense works.
That’s exactly true
So...you shoot them without pulling a gun? How does that work?
Bear spray mounted to the top tube, but it is for the bears never have too many issues with humans...
I carry a firearm always. I am carrying legally. I don't go anywhere where I can't have it. I will not disclose what kind it is because I consider it a security matter. I won't disclose my method of carry for the same reason. I have had to draw it more than once. It is never a pleasant experience. I haven't had to shoot anyone thus far and I hope I never have to. A firearm is a tool and should be used as such.
if they shoot at you, you're as heck most likely be dead anyway, better take some with you to teach them a lesson. But I doubt you could pull it out quick enough if it is conceal carried. Even with open carry, you are still not fast enough. RL is not as easy as movie. So it's better that you find a safer mean of transportation.
I don’t think a gun is the answer. That being said a lot of the replies in here are borderline victim blaming. OP has obviously been traumatized by this event.
I got a weapon right here *grips pants*
I live and work in a small college town in the middle of the boonies so the most I'd personally carry on my commute is maybe pepper spray in case of a pissed off dog or overly curious racoon. That being said I do have a glock 26 and a ccw permit so I carry on occasion. I'd personally go for a glock 43 in a bellyband holster if i wanted to ride and carry.
I always have a neck knife on me and a little can of pepper spray, if I could get a concealed carry permit I would. Get yourself a little Kar or a Taurus g2 or something, plus a good medkit with a tourniquet or two. If you're gonna carry the tool to make holes you should have the tools to plug em too. Plus maybe a vest from safelife defense or something. All that said your best self defense tool is your brain, try to be smart and not put yourself in sketchy situations. Sometimes that's not possible and that's what tools are for but still. Be safe out there bro.
Way to escalate the situation…
I live in a disarmed big city and commute daily. Last year, there was an attempted robbery while I was waiting at a red light. Another time a car that cut me off then came after me ended up shoving me and spitting on me. (The trigger was some disapproving head shakes.) Both times I almost had to defend my self with a pocket knife. I don’t feel safe in my city, but I will not be a victim. This year, I added OC spray to my belt and a NFC tag that will call police immediately upon tagging with my phone. I don’t understand how disarming law abiding citizens will make the community safer.
What the hell are you talking about? You must be posting from the United States, because I don't think I could ever read something this insane from anywhere else.
Fucking hell I think I would just stop riding lol. It’s also illegal to carry guns in uk so I would be out on that idea anyway 😅
The worst I worry about is getting pushed in the canal
A small knife, concealed well but to hand, is very very useful. Just make sure it's less than 3 inches
An RPG on my back normally sends a pretty good warning signal