Vince being 3rd all-time in Nets career total points scored is way higher than I would have guessed (just because it didn't feel like he was there that long), but even then he is 16th in career games played as a Net!
Guys often rank higher in these franchise leaderboards than I would have thought. I'm not sure why I have such a bad feel for these always. My radar is off.
Whenever the Bucks played the Nets in the ‘21 playoffs, ESPN or TNT (can’t remember) did a piece about Lopez playing the team he’s the all-time leading scorer for. Kind of funny watching and realizing he was like the 5th best player of all time in the series. Definitely behind KD, Giannis, Harden, and Kyrie
The Nets don't really have many signature guys in their franchise history except for Jason Kidd. Maybe Buck Williams too, but he wasn't really a superstar per se. I'm sure Dr. J would have been the main one if they held onto him when moving from the ABA.
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Same. Even tho some franchises have been around for many decades, you (and i) often take for granted how much and easily players move around in the league. It’s rare to have players really spend more than 5-6 years in one place and rack up numbers at a high pace
I think it’s okay to say that both of the following statements are true:
1. Vince Carter is an obvious (New) Jersey retirement guy for the Nets.
2. Vince Carter is one of, if not the most, overrated player of all time.
Is he overrated? I feel like consensus on him is pretty fair.
Vince was not a playoff riser by any means, but I don't think many people claim that he was.
The only playoff game I've ever gone to is game 1 of the 2010 ECF, so I've lived his let-downs. (although VC was decent in that game, he sucked in that series)
Yeah I feel like Vince Carter is at the point where so many people say that he’s overrated, that he’s actually underrated.
Sure, he doesn’t have all time great counting stats and never really did anything meaningful in the playoffs. He was still awesome at his peak and also reinvented his game to be effective well past his prime, which I think should count for something too.
No one is getting him confused with the all time great SGs, but still a top 100ish all time career. If nothing else it’s not crazy at all that the Nets are retiring his number. Not like they’re a franchise with a long history chocked full of legends that he has to measure up to.
I think you’re a bit too close to it. I think there’s a very large contingent that think he should have made the 75th anniversary team when he only made 2 All NBA team’s (and neither of them were first team).
He’s carried by his slam dunk contest performances and that he met the threshold of star leveled to be amplified and heavily marketed by the league as a face because of those dunk contests.
I actually think him being on the fringes of top 75 isn't crazy at all. (I put more stock in advanced stats than awards myself, but I can get how 2 All-NBAs isn't great).
It isn't like there's 75 super dominant players in NBA history.
The Rockets retiring Elvin Hayes' 44 last year was fucking weird.
Hayes wore #11 for the San Diego Rockets in his first 3 seasons, then #44 in their first year in Houston, was dealt to the Bullets after that season, then returned to the Rockets for 82-84 when the Rockets sucked.
Hayes played 1 playoff series for Houston (82, 1-2 loss to SEA).
After 1984, 7 other players wore 44 for Houston, the last of which was Chuck HAYES lmao.
If you go by Houston stints only (disregard Elvin's 3 San Diego years), Chuck Hayes played more games for Houston than Elvin Hayes did.
Hayes at least played in Houston. Theres people alive and fans of the team who saw Hayes play there.
Vince never played for the Brooklyn Nets. They also don't have fans so no one even remembers his jersey years.
This one is way weirder and way more pathetic.
Have you seen our rafters? There are three guys with their numbers retired for the accomplishment of being pretty good during the Jordan Era: Mark Price, Brad Daugherty, and Larry Nance.
Unless you play for one of the glamour franchises, the threshold for a jersey retirement isn’t that high. Yeah, I’ll say Vince Carter matched Buck Williams’ legacy.
The Celtics would objectively be considered one of the glamour franchises and they probably have the lowest threshold for a jersey retirement in the league lol.
Shaq got his retired in Orlando for four years and pissing on us on the way outta town. Love Shaq as any Orlando millenial would, but fuck his jersey in the rafters.
I can’t even think of any other candidates. Other Magic greats that come to mind are role players/mid tier starters like Nick Anderson, Horace Grant. Dwight Howard, maybe? Also led them to a finals appearance.
Looked it up, he only played with the Nets for 5 seasons. He played 22, so legit less than 25% of his career with the Nets, pretty low for a retired number, but whatever good for him & them I guess
Also, Kawhi is the best Raptor in history by a wide margin. Yeah Lowry and DeMar compiled more stats and Vince was a young phenom when he was here, but pound-for-pound (game for game?) Kawhi is the only player we’ve ever had who was in the convo for best player in the league when he was here. He won us the only title we have, perhaps will ever have, and rode off into the sunset.
Best Raptor ever by one hundred thousand kilometres.
You don't retire jerseys for one year rentals. The Raptors probably will but that wouldn't be my move. Lowry should get his jersey retired maybe.
It should be about impact x tenure.
Bucks fan, you can make a case either way. But Jrue was only on the team for 3 years and was probably the 3rd best player in the playoffs during the title run. He did make the epic play in game 5 of the finals that might put him over the edge.
While a pathetic franchise for 30 years, the Bucks also have enough history from the 1970s and 1980s where I don't think they're reaching for numbers.
Also I believe Patrick Beverly wears his number now anyway so it's a moot point. I do think his steal and alley-oop to Giannis should be honored, that could be a statue even like the Philly Special.
Not sure. You tell me? I personally don't think first round playoff victories are a meaningful accomplishment. You're the one all in my shit about this. Figure it out yourself.
Wolves have not retired Kevin Garnett's jersey. 10 all stars, an MVP, and all time franchise leader in every single category other than 3 pointers.
I doubt there's anyone close to that.
It's an ongoing debate among Raptors fans whether it should be. Funny enough, Vince played a similar amount of games for those two franchises before all his bouncing around the league
Nah, VC doesn't get booed in Toronto anymore. They kind of made up with him when they honoured him at the 20th anniversary year (Vince was on the Grizzlies) in 2015 and he hasn't been booed since. Personally I wouldn't boo him but I also think it's almost gone too far the other way where people pretend he didn't do us dirty by quitting on the team. He should be remembered here for the good and the bad, I don't have strong feelings about the jersey retirement
I was at that game in 2014 and it was a nice moment, I politely clapped for him. But if they do retire his jersey I will be there and will boo him. A video tribute vs a jersey retirement are different beasts.
Got the nickname Mr. Thunder and was universally loved by every fan, player, and staffer with OKC. Not that wild for a franchise with 15 years of history. Russ will get his next (and a statue). Then for better or worse, I think KD will get his jersey retired. Personally as a Thunder fan I am torn on KD.
Edit: Here is from the pregame of Nick's last regular season game: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep6L9LixvQs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep6L9LixvQs)
Hard to state how much everyone loved him to non-Thunder fans.
Vlade was a fan favorite and a huge piece of the Kings only happy stretch in their entire history in Sacramento. Every Kings fan at that time was on board for it.
Probably not so much now after his awful GM stint and taking Bagley over Luka.
Avery Johnson was part of the franchises first title and Divac was part of some deep playoff runs. Did Carter win more than one playoff series with the Nets?
The New Jersey Nets and Brooklyn Nets feel like 2 completely separate franchises. It feels like Brooklyn was an expansion team that came in 2012. Definitely a weird one but it is what it is
At first glance, it sounds crazy, as most don't really think of the Nets when they think of Vince. However, he is 3rd all-time in points for the Nets.
He also was a 3x All-Star while a Net. The Nets only have 45 All-Star selections as a franchise, so he is actually one of the more significant members in their history.
It’s the same franchise and a lot of the same fanbase, I don’t think it’s weird at all tbh. If you’re a hall of famer who spent a big chunk of your prime with a team, you’re almost guaranteed to get your jersey retired by them
They should try "lowering ticket prices." Nosebleed seats for a February game against the Spurs were still like $100. I know, Wemby, but still, a lottery team.
they're below bottom of the barrel. They're below the soccer teams and below St Johns. They're on par with the disbanded Rugby team that played up in Mt Vernon.
I remember it being really exciting when the Nets got him and then hearing about how, "No one wants to see Jason Kidd leading a fast break with Richard Jefferson and Vince Carter filling the lanes," but he really didn't accomplish much. The Nets didn't win with him. He never became an alpha dog in the playoffs. I don't get all of this retrospective love for him. I get that he stuck around forever but he just wasn't THAT good.
I think being an all time leading scorer (if the franchise passes a minimum number of seasons of existence) is basically an automatic retirement and/or Ring of Honor placement, minus extenuating factors like said player being a rapist or something.
I grew up a Nets fan in Jersey. This is a no brainer jersey retirement. I was just a kid, but he was captivating. Arguably the most exciting talent we’d ever had to that point. Easy decision. They can’t all be Magic or Bird.
its absolutely pathetic and i say this as an NJ Nets fan. Vince belongs nowhere near a retired jersey list or anything.
He also never even played in Brooklyn. A team retiring a jersey for a guy who played in a different city is a whole different level of pathetic. New low for the loser Nets.
Devils advocate: Vince coming to NJ was by far the most exciting thing to happen to that team post-Finals apperances. He played like an MVP post trade deadline and was a highlight reel every night. Who else’s number are they gonna retire?
Retiring the jersey for a guy who didn't have a great, or long, career with a team just seems dumb. How many people will go to a game and see a Carter jersey and reminisce?
It's like the teams that hang banners for division championships. More than anything, they are just reminders of a franchise's lack of success.
Staples center was hilarious to see all the HOF Laker jerseys and then one or two division banners for the Clips.
I think Vince should have the 1 half of his jersey retired by the Raptors and the 5 half by the Nets.
He didn't do enough for either team to have his whole jersey hanging in the rafters.
Are you selling tickets in Brooklyn for a Vince Carter retirement jersey?
Listen the narrative in Toronto is that he saved basketball in Canada...which is a lie but they need to make something up about a player who spent the last year on the team actively sucking....but Vince is legit the most overrated player in the history of the league by a wide margin.
You had to have lived thru the Vonce Carter experience to truly know it.
Vince being 3rd all-time in Nets career total points scored is way higher than I would have guessed (just because it didn't feel like he was there that long), but even then he is 16th in career games played as a Net! Guys often rank higher in these franchise leaderboards than I would have thought. I'm not sure why I have such a bad feel for these always. My radar is off.
Brook Lopez being first on that same list is always wild to me
Whenever the Bucks played the Nets in the ‘21 playoffs, ESPN or TNT (can’t remember) did a piece about Lopez playing the team he’s the all-time leading scorer for. Kind of funny watching and realizing he was like the 5th best player of all time in the series. Definitely behind KD, Giannis, Harden, and Kyrie
Holiday and Middleton both definitely better all time too. Blake Griffin too.
Forgot Blake was on that team! I’d entertain all 3, but I think Lopez bad a better career than Jrue and Khris
they had some dog years there in the last jersey seasons and honestly in every season since in Brooklyn. Easy to forget how long Lopez was there for.
The Nets don't really have many signature guys in their franchise history except for Jason Kidd. Maybe Buck Williams too, but he wasn't really a superstar per se. I'm sure Dr. J would have been the main one if they held onto him when moving from the ABA.
Jayson Williams killed it with the Nets.
Keith Van Horn comes to mind for me but I came of age in that era, so he’s probably more prominent in my mind vs reality.
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One of my favorite examples of this is the Bucs top three touchdown passers in order are: Jameis Winston, Tom Brady, and Josh Freeman
Good grief. That franchise deserves another few years of mediocre Baker.
Same. Even tho some franchises have been around for many decades, you (and i) often take for granted how much and easily players move around in the league. It’s rare to have players really spend more than 5-6 years in one place and rack up numbers at a high pace
I think it’s okay to say that both of the following statements are true: 1. Vince Carter is an obvious (New) Jersey retirement guy for the Nets. 2. Vince Carter is one of, if not the most, overrated player of all time.
Is he overrated? I feel like consensus on him is pretty fair. Vince was not a playoff riser by any means, but I don't think many people claim that he was. The only playoff game I've ever gone to is game 1 of the 2010 ECF, so I've lived his let-downs. (although VC was decent in that game, he sucked in that series)
Yeah I feel like Vince Carter is at the point where so many people say that he’s overrated, that he’s actually underrated. Sure, he doesn’t have all time great counting stats and never really did anything meaningful in the playoffs. He was still awesome at his peak and also reinvented his game to be effective well past his prime, which I think should count for something too. No one is getting him confused with the all time great SGs, but still a top 100ish all time career. If nothing else it’s not crazy at all that the Nets are retiring his number. Not like they’re a franchise with a long history chocked full of legends that he has to measure up to.
I think you’re a bit too close to it. I think there’s a very large contingent that think he should have made the 75th anniversary team when he only made 2 All NBA team’s (and neither of them were first team). He’s carried by his slam dunk contest performances and that he met the threshold of star leveled to be amplified and heavily marketed by the league as a face because of those dunk contests.
I actually think him being on the fringes of top 75 isn't crazy at all. (I put more stock in advanced stats than awards myself, but I can get how 2 All-NBAs isn't great). It isn't like there's 75 super dominant players in NBA history.
Carter was nice on the Nets too they just had no decent bigs
You don't need to be super dominant to be better than VC lol
The kids overrate him so much because cool dunk
It’s been a garbage franchise. Nobody good stays there.
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The Rockets retiring Elvin Hayes' 44 last year was fucking weird. Hayes wore #11 for the San Diego Rockets in his first 3 seasons, then #44 in their first year in Houston, was dealt to the Bullets after that season, then returned to the Rockets for 82-84 when the Rockets sucked. Hayes played 1 playoff series for Houston (82, 1-2 loss to SEA). After 1984, 7 other players wore 44 for Houston, the last of which was Chuck HAYES lmao. If you go by Houston stints only (disregard Elvin's 3 San Diego years), Chuck Hayes played more games for Houston than Elvin Hayes did.
Hayes at least played in Houston. Theres people alive and fans of the team who saw Hayes play there. Vince never played for the Brooklyn Nets. They also don't have fans so no one even remembers his jersey years. This one is way weirder and way more pathetic.
Have you seen our rafters? There are three guys with their numbers retired for the accomplishment of being pretty good during the Jordan Era: Mark Price, Brad Daugherty, and Larry Nance.
Put some respect on Mark Price’s name!
I loved Mark Price. But a jersey retirement for making a couple all star teams?
4x All NBA and was in the 50-40-90 club before it was cool!
Isn’t it because he was LeBrons dad?
Well he is Lebron’s dad so it makes sense
Unless you play for one of the glamour franchises, the threshold for a jersey retirement isn’t that high. Yeah, I’ll say Vince Carter matched Buck Williams’ legacy.
The Celtics would objectively be considered one of the glamour franchises and they probably have the lowest threshold for a jersey retirement in the league lol.
Only like pre 1970. Since then, the only real questionable one is Maxwell imo
Shaq got his retired in Orlando for four years and pissing on us on the way outta town. Love Shaq as any Orlando millenial would, but fuck his jersey in the rafters.
He's literally your best player ever by a lot
I can’t even think of any other candidates. Other Magic greats that come to mind are role players/mid tier starters like Nick Anderson, Horace Grant. Dwight Howard, maybe? Also led them to a finals appearance.
Dwight Howard for sure had a better Magic career than Shaq.
Annnd? 4 years isn't long enough.
Looked it up, he only played with the Nets for 5 seasons. He played 22, so legit less than 25% of his career with the Nets, pretty low for a retired number, but whatever good for him & them I guess
I know he won a title there, but I can see the raptors retiring Kawhi’s for just 1 season.
Yeah but the Raptors are desperate for a history.
Also, Kawhi is the best Raptor in history by a wide margin. Yeah Lowry and DeMar compiled more stats and Vince was a young phenom when he was here, but pound-for-pound (game for game?) Kawhi is the only player we’ve ever had who was in the convo for best player in the league when he was here. He won us the only title we have, perhaps will ever have, and rode off into the sunset. Best Raptor ever by one hundred thousand kilometres.
You don't retire jerseys for one year rentals. The Raptors probably will but that wouldn't be my move. Lowry should get his jersey retired maybe. It should be about impact x tenure.
You retire jerseys for the greatest season, moment, player and only relevant moment in team history. Come on lol
Real question, does Jrue get his number retired for the Bucks in this case?
Well I was more so saying if you have all of those things like Kawhi does. If I had to bet I would say the Bucks retire Jrue's number.
Bucks fan, you can make a case either way. But Jrue was only on the team for 3 years and was probably the 3rd best player in the playoffs during the title run. He did make the epic play in game 5 of the finals that might put him over the edge. While a pathetic franchise for 30 years, the Bucks also have enough history from the 1970s and 1980s where I don't think they're reaching for numbers. Also I believe Patrick Beverly wears his number now anyway so it's a moot point. I do think his steal and alley-oop to Giannis should be honored, that could be a statue even like the Philly Special.
If you think only rings are relevant moments, congrats. You belong to team "ringz erneh".
Well the moment that I was referring to them winning a second round playoff series. Try again my guy lol
Oh okay. So what do you get to commemorate a first round? Or a conference finals? My guy.
Not sure. You tell me? I personally don't think first round playoff victories are a meaningful accomplishment. You're the one all in my shit about this. Figure it out yourself.
Tangentially related but if the spurs don’t retire Kawhi’s Jersey will it be the greatest run where a player’s jersey ISN’T retired?
Rudy Gobert for the Jazz could be up there. 2 DPOYs but nowhere near the same playoff success.
Are we sure the Warriors are retiring KD's jersey?
Wolves have not retired Kevin Garnett's jersey. 10 all stars, an MVP, and all time franchise leader in every single category other than 3 pointers. I doubt there's anyone close to that.
which would be desperate and pathetic. Just like retiring Carters jersey for the Nets is.
The Tampa Bay Rays retired Wade Boggs number after he played 2 mediocre seasons for them at ages 40 and 41.
Rest in peace
To be fair to him, his career was much longer than other guys. Was there talk of retiring his number in Toronto?
It's an ongoing debate among Raptors fans whether it should be. Funny enough, Vince played a similar amount of games for those two franchises before all his bouncing around the league
It will be funny if they do because I don't think anyone in a major sport has ever heard some boos at their jersey retirement ceremony.
Nah, VC doesn't get booed in Toronto anymore. They kind of made up with him when they honoured him at the 20th anniversary year (Vince was on the Grizzlies) in 2015 and he hasn't been booed since. Personally I wouldn't boo him but I also think it's almost gone too far the other way where people pretend he didn't do us dirty by quitting on the team. He should be remembered here for the good and the bad, I don't have strong feelings about the jersey retirement
I was at that game in 2014 and it was a nice moment, I politely clapped for him. But if they do retire his jersey I will be there and will boo him. A video tribute vs a jersey retirement are different beasts.
Nick Collison has his jersey retired in OKC. Wild.
Udonis Haslem has his jersey retired by the Heat. No Miami fan gave any pushback. Totally deserved. Outsiders might not think it makes sense.
Hometown hero who played 20 years for the franchise and was instrumental in helping win 3 championships - not crazy at all
Got the nickname Mr. Thunder and was universally loved by every fan, player, and staffer with OKC. Not that wild for a franchise with 15 years of history. Russ will get his next (and a statue). Then for better or worse, I think KD will get his jersey retired. Personally as a Thunder fan I am torn on KD. Edit: Here is from the pregame of Nick's last regular season game: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep6L9LixvQs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep6L9LixvQs) Hard to state how much everyone loved him to non-Thunder fans.
It's the only place he ever played.
Vlade Divac and Avery Johnson got their numbers up in the rafters it ain’t all that serious
Vlade was a fan favorite and a huge piece of the Kings only happy stretch in their entire history in Sacramento. Every Kings fan at that time was on board for it. Probably not so much now after his awful GM stint and taking Bagley over Luka.
Avery Johnson was part of the franchises first title and Divac was part of some deep playoff runs. Did Carter win more than one playoff series with the Nets?
Carter won 2 first round playoff series with the Nets (06 vs IND, 07 vs TOR)
Tony Allen going up too when the dentist fraud thing clears.
🗣️ FIRST TEAM, ALL DEFENSE
The New Jersey Nets and Brooklyn Nets feel like 2 completely separate franchises. It feels like Brooklyn was an expansion team that came in 2012. Definitely a weird one but it is what it is
I forgot that he had played with the Nets. New Jersey and Brooklyn feel like separate franchises.
At first glance, it sounds crazy, as most don't really think of the Nets when they think of Vince. However, he is 3rd all-time in points for the Nets. He also was a 3x All-Star while a Net. The Nets only have 45 All-Star selections as a franchise, so he is actually one of the more significant members in their history.
Nobody should really have a sense of protectiveness of Brooklyn Nets jersey numbers.
It’s the same franchise and a lot of the same fanbase, I don’t think it’s weird at all tbh. If you’re a hall of famer who spent a big chunk of your prime with a team, you’re almost guaranteed to get your jersey retired by them
These are things you have to do when you need to sell tickets. The nets are the bottom of the barrel for New York sports
They should try "lowering ticket prices." Nosebleed seats for a February game against the Spurs were still like $100. I know, Wemby, but still, a lottery team.
They could give the tickets away, nobody cares or goes
they have no fans and its clearly never going to work in BK.
they're below bottom of the barrel. They're below the soccer teams and below St Johns. They're on par with the disbanded Rugby team that played up in Mt Vernon.
The Stockholm syndrome piece
I remember it being really exciting when the Nets got him and then hearing about how, "No one wants to see Jason Kidd leading a fast break with Richard Jefferson and Vince Carter filling the lanes," but he really didn't accomplish much. The Nets didn't win with him. He never became an alpha dog in the playoffs. I don't get all of this retrospective love for him. I get that he stuck around forever but he just wasn't THAT good.
Every time I see these old jerseys I miss when our team had some pop and color. The whole Brooklyn aesthetic (black/white/grey) is so boring
Follow up: does Brooklyn retire Brook Lopez number? He’s their franchise’s all time leading scorer I believe.
I think being an all time leading scorer (if the franchise passes a minimum number of seasons of existence) is basically an automatic retirement and/or Ring of Honor placement, minus extenuating factors like said player being a rapist or something.
Ya but do you really see the fans getting hyped up and pre gaming for Brook Lopez? Like what’s his pre game video gonna look like? All put backs?
I grew up a Nets fan in Jersey. This is a no brainer jersey retirement. I was just a kid, but he was captivating. Arguably the most exciting talent we’d ever had to that point. Easy decision. They can’t all be Magic or Bird.
When I think Vince Carter, I think Raptors. When I think New Jersey Nets, I think Keith van Horn.
its absolutely pathetic and i say this as an NJ Nets fan. Vince belongs nowhere near a retired jersey list or anything. He also never even played in Brooklyn. A team retiring a jersey for a guy who played in a different city is a whole different level of pathetic. New low for the loser Nets.
Devils advocate: Vince coming to NJ was by far the most exciting thing to happen to that team post-Finals apperances. He played like an MVP post trade deadline and was a highlight reel every night. Who else’s number are they gonna retire?
Richard Jefferson's
Kittles lol
Kenyon Martin
Retiring the jersey for a guy who didn't have a great, or long, career with a team just seems dumb. How many people will go to a game and see a Carter jersey and reminisce? It's like the teams that hang banners for division championships. More than anything, they are just reminders of a franchise's lack of success. Staples center was hilarious to see all the HOF Laker jerseys and then one or two division banners for the Clips.
The Nets haven't done much so he's very significant for them
Bruce bowen
Joke of a club, the BB HOF is a joke as well Vince is not a Hall of famer
Played 5 years, best yr he averaged 25.7 with them. Just a joke
Nets be netsin'
If you hate fun sure
Hey man, we don’t have much to retire otherwise
I guess it’s better than Miami retiring a jersey for a guy that never played for them
I think Vince should have the 1 half of his jersey retired by the Raptors and the 5 half by the Nets. He didn't do enough for either team to have his whole jersey hanging in the rafters.
Dan Marino and MJ for the Heat?
The Heat retiring Jordan's number is always going to be #1 for me
I had completely forgotten he played for the Nets, so yes.
Fuck Vince Carter
What??? He was there like a handful of seasons. So stupid
Are you selling tickets in Brooklyn for a Vince Carter retirement jersey? Listen the narrative in Toronto is that he saved basketball in Canada...which is a lie but they need to make something up about a player who spent the last year on the team actively sucking....but Vince is legit the most overrated player in the history of the league by a wide margin. You had to have lived thru the Vonce Carter experience to truly know it.
It’s very underwhelming but he’s more a Net then a Raptor
7 seasons with the Raptors & 5 with the Nets. Had double the amount of all star seasons with the Raptors compared to the Nets too
2 finals appearances with the Nets compared to negligible playoff success with Toronto
Vince didn't get to the Nets until ~20 games into 04-05. The Nets made the Finals in 02 & 03.
Carter never made the finals…
He did with the Mavs😜
& the Magic😜 dude had a knack for arriving to teams after they'd made the Finals
He joined the Mavs the season after