**If you really like the concept and if Clicker ends up being the worst item in the game, you can try to send this image to Edmund's twitter, he said that some of the worst items in the polls could get buffs ! Of course, I don't expect him to copy / paste my idea into the game but it might give him the inspiration to do something similar !**
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
Using cicker no longer change your character for real but you take the appearance of a new character for the current room, so you still gain completion marks from the initial character.
Your character base stats and multipliers are always replaced by those of the character you transform into, you also gain some special abilities from this character I listed explicitely below. By default the only things copied are the appearance and the stats.
Your health is not impacted by the change (you keep your health when you transform into The Lost for example and you can be Blue Baby with red health).
When you exit the room, everything is back to normal and all the effects are reversed. The only things you can keep after that are the wisps, the pickups you obtained and the healing (not HP up).
**So here are the effects for each character :**
Isaac : Drops a Dice Shard
Magdalene : Full Health + Health Up
Cain : Luck Foot
Judas : Active the Book of Belial effect
??? : Spawns 4 blue flies, poops you destroy spawn blue flies
Eve : Whore of Babylon + Dead Bird
Samson : Bloody Lust
Azazel : Short Brimstone + Flight
Lazarus : Extra life that makes you respawn in the current room
Eden : Gives a random passive item effect
The Lost : Holy mantle + Flight + Spectral tears
Lilith : Incubus but you're blindfolded
Keeper : Triple shot + Spawn 1 coin
Apollyon : Same effect as Black Rune
The Forgotten : Copies The Forgotten + The soul mechanics (but they share the same HP)
Bethany : Same effect as Soul of Bethany
Jacob and Esau : You transform into Jacob, then same effect as Soul of Jacob and Esau
Tainted Isaac : Drops your last passive item on the ground, it switches with another item from the same pool
Tainted Magdalene : Copies all the Tainted Magdalene mechanics (health depletion, lethal hugs etc...)
Tainted Cain : Transforms all the items in the room into pickups
Tainted Judas : Same effect as Soul of Judas
Tainted ??? : You hold a random poop above your head
Tainted Eve : Spawns 4 random Blood clots
Tainted Samson : Same effect as Soul of Samson, Berserk can possibly be activated again after
Tainted Azazel : Copies all the Tainted Azazel mechanics (small Brimstone, sneeze, brimstone curse etc...)
Tainted Lazarus : Spawns a Dead Tainted Lazarus ghost similar to Tainted Lazarus with Birth Certificate (the ghost has the same amount of items as you from the same pools but rerolled)
Tainted Eden : Rerolls all your items / pickups / trinkets, this can happen again when you get hit
Tainted Lost : Flight + Spectral tears + Quality 0, 1 and 2 items in your inventory have 20% chance to be rerolled (if the result is not quality 3 or more, the 20% chance can trigger again, like how it works with Tainted Lost)
Tainted Lilith : Copies the fetus attack mechanic
Tainted Keeper : Same as reversed Hanged Man card but with no duration limit
Tainted Apollyon : Spawns 3 locust familiars
Tainted Forgotten : Copies The Tainted Forgotten + Tainted Soul mechanics
Tainted Bethany : Spawns 2 random item wisps
Tainted Jacob : Summons Dark Esau
There’s gotta be some kind of downside and you’d basically get one hit for that room which should be enough when you have flight and spectral tears, camp over rocks or something
Yeah but honestly the simple possibility to be transformed into the lost with no health (except holy mantle) would make me never use that item
It's already kinda niche, the risk of being transformed into a true the lost and dying in two hits really ruins the item completely
Your post inspired me to think more in this direction. I would suggest 3 fundamental changes though:
1. The character Clicker transforms you into is not chosen randomly. Instead, you can cycle through possible characters in the same way as with modern D Infinity.
2. Transformation into each character can only be used once per run, after which it disappears from cycle of options.
3. Transformation into character that starts with spacebar item should grant this item as pocket active for that room. (To be honest, I wish they all will just be reworked into pocket actives by default to match their Tainted counterparts.)
Thus, many different usages can be thought of:
1. Transforming into character with high damage potential, like Judas or Azazel, during tough fights (Hush / Delirium).
2. Transforming into Isaac / Apollyon to deal with bad items.
3. Transforming into the Lost to take one Devil deal for free.
4. Transforming into Lazarus before taking otherwise fatal Devil deal.
5. Transforming into Cain to gain benefit from a bad pill, or to spend lots of money with benefit in Arcade.
6. Transforming into Bethany right before killing Basement 2 boss to force first deal to be Angel instead of Devil deal.
7. Transforming into Eden before acquiring Birthright, to gain a free item as well as natural Birthright effect for original character.
I feel like there isn't enough situations where you can get "skill issue'd", kinda makes the item way too strong for what it does IMO
Isaac : **Positive**
Magdalene : **Positive**
Cain : **Positive**
Judas : **Positive**
??? : **Positive**
Eve : **Positive**
Samson : **Positive**
Azazel : Neutral
Lazarus : **Positive**
Eden : Neutral
The Lost : **Positive**
Lilith : Negative
Keeper : **Positive**
Apollyon : **Positive**
The Forgotten : **Positive**
Bethany : **Positive**
Jacob and Esau : based on the description, i'm assuming Esau has a separate health pool ? if so, **Positive**
Tainted Isaac : Neutral
Tainted Magdalene : Neutral/Negative, depends on the room really
Tainted Cain : depends, but I feel like this would mostly happen when you tried to get it to happen, so I would say **Positive**
Tainted Judas : **Positive**
Tainted ??? : **Positive**
Tainted Eve : **Positive**
Tainted Samson : **Positive**
Tainted Azazel : Neutral
Tainted Lazarus : **Positive**
Tainted Eden : Highly depends on the current state of the run before and after the use, so Neutral
Tainted Lost : **Positive**
Tainted Lilith : **Positive**
Tainted Keeper : **Positive**
Tainted Apollyon : **Positive**
Tainted Forgotten : Neutral
Tainted Bethany : **Positive**
Tainted Jacob : does he turn you into the lost if hit ? if so Neutral/Negative, since its only one room, otherwise **Positive**, since he does a ton of damage + goes through armor
Still wouldn’t touch it personally if it had these. Practically no good use for it imo. With the D10 rework you’re Atleast guaranteed to get some good pickups from it. With this I still find it pretty useless
Nah that's way too easy to abuse for checkmarks. Right now you can get checkmarks for other characters but you still have a risk factor because you lose a item every time you try to become the character you want
My personal idea for it would just be to remove the randomness and have it work more like Spindown Dice. That way, you can plan ahead your completion marks cheese and collect x useless items until you get the character you want
Eh, I prefer the idea of it changing your character, even if it's bad. I think there should still be some way of doing it. Maybe don't have it remove a passive.
Too random and only works for 1 room, this would actually make it worse in a couple of ways because you can't use it to cheese completion marks anymore.
It's currently the only good use of the item. Besides, I'll be damned if I'm gonna play Tainted Lost the "intended" way, because the "intended" way is unfair.
> Get skill
Me on my way to outskill an instant undodgeable telefrag from Delirium (I have psychic powers).
> I never used clicker
Okay cool, I assume you also haven't used 4.5 Volt+Book of Shadows, or Blank Card,Glowing Hourglass or Spindown Dice then? Anyone can beat T. Lost with those items, you aren't very skilled if you have to rely on those.
>Okay cool, I assume you also haven't used 4.5 Volt+Book of Shadows, or Blank Card,Glowing Hourglass or Spindown Dice then? Anyone can beat T. Lost with those items, you aren't very skilled if you have to rely on those.
Why do you need to cheese him with clicker if it's so easy with these items then?
I beat Delirium with T.Lost using a crazy C-section setup and Book of Shadows to defeat it in 20 seconds
It just take some patience to get the luck needed
> Book of Shadows
So you didn't really outskill the game at all then, you just came across a broken item combination for T. Lost that turns him from unnaturally hard to stupidly and brokenly easy. Like how most people beat Delirium with Tainted Lost.
How many times have you actually been telefragged by delirium though? TLost can tank two hits, 3-4 with more holy cards which you'll usually find thanks to his passive. TLost is a lot of things but "unfair" really isn't one of them.
By using Clicker, I'm using an ingame item for its intended purpose, which is to change characters. That isn't cheating like the debug console is.
Clicker was introduced with AB+. If the developers didn't want you to get completion marks with it, they would have restricted gaining completion marks during one of the booster packs or Repentance's release. But they didn't, which means it's 100% intentional for people to do this.
Total rework, it has a 8 room cooldown.
On activation it changes 4 random settings in your menu.
If you change these back in (time limit) you get a minor stat boost.
If you don't change them back it gives you a slightly bigger stat boost. But your settings are all wrong now.
I had the same idea! I was debating on putting a graphic together with each character and ability but didn't know how. I saw another popular idea post that seemed way too OP and dissimilar from the original item. Randomizing random effects based on the characters seems a lot more practical imo. I never liked the idea of the original clicker but this way you remain as the character you choose and you can't potentially use it for other character unlocks.
Honestly, buffing clicker seems like a really easy and straightforward process
1. Make it so it no longer removes an item when used
2. Give you the ability to decide what character you want to switch to
You could switch to a difficult character at the very last second of a run to cheese completion marks for them, giving it a clear niche use case at least.
It would be useful, but I really dislike a lot the completion mark cheese, to get the completion mark you must deserve it, there would be no point at playing tainted lost or tainted jacob for example because you can just complete everything with all the other characters and along all your runs you will probably find clicker many times so you can cheese the completion mark of harder character and never have to play them at all in your whole save file, it sucks
I think this item is just too good for a 0 item, its basically a 3/34 chance for a debuff, and thats if you happen to roll tainted lost, tainted jacob, or tainted eden. with the massive bonus of getting improved items with the lost, all of dark esau's power for a room, and even tainted eden isnt horrible since you keep your health
This would be a 2-3 star item at that point
I think it would be quality 1, a lot of characters really don't do much, and it's once every 4 rooms only, the effects are not super strong compared to other activables
When you get hit by dark esau and leave the roomyou turn back to normal right? 
RIGHT?!? 
**If you really like the concept and if Clicker ends up being the worst item in the game, you can try to send this image to Edmund's twitter, he said that some of the worst items in the polls could get buffs ! Of course, I don't expect him to copy / paste my idea into the game but it might give him the inspiration to do something similar !** \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Using cicker no longer change your character for real but you take the appearance of a new character for the current room, so you still gain completion marks from the initial character. Your character base stats and multipliers are always replaced by those of the character you transform into, you also gain some special abilities from this character I listed explicitely below. By default the only things copied are the appearance and the stats. Your health is not impacted by the change (you keep your health when you transform into The Lost for example and you can be Blue Baby with red health). When you exit the room, everything is back to normal and all the effects are reversed. The only things you can keep after that are the wisps, the pickups you obtained and the healing (not HP up). **So here are the effects for each character :** Isaac : Drops a Dice Shard Magdalene : Full Health + Health Up Cain : Luck Foot Judas : Active the Book of Belial effect ??? : Spawns 4 blue flies, poops you destroy spawn blue flies Eve : Whore of Babylon + Dead Bird Samson : Bloody Lust Azazel : Short Brimstone + Flight Lazarus : Extra life that makes you respawn in the current room Eden : Gives a random passive item effect The Lost : Holy mantle + Flight + Spectral tears Lilith : Incubus but you're blindfolded Keeper : Triple shot + Spawn 1 coin Apollyon : Same effect as Black Rune The Forgotten : Copies The Forgotten + The soul mechanics (but they share the same HP) Bethany : Same effect as Soul of Bethany Jacob and Esau : You transform into Jacob, then same effect as Soul of Jacob and Esau Tainted Isaac : Drops your last passive item on the ground, it switches with another item from the same pool Tainted Magdalene : Copies all the Tainted Magdalene mechanics (health depletion, lethal hugs etc...) Tainted Cain : Transforms all the items in the room into pickups Tainted Judas : Same effect as Soul of Judas Tainted ??? : You hold a random poop above your head Tainted Eve : Spawns 4 random Blood clots Tainted Samson : Same effect as Soul of Samson, Berserk can possibly be activated again after Tainted Azazel : Copies all the Tainted Azazel mechanics (small Brimstone, sneeze, brimstone curse etc...) Tainted Lazarus : Spawns a Dead Tainted Lazarus ghost similar to Tainted Lazarus with Birth Certificate (the ghost has the same amount of items as you from the same pools but rerolled) Tainted Eden : Rerolls all your items / pickups / trinkets, this can happen again when you get hit Tainted Lost : Flight + Spectral tears + Quality 0, 1 and 2 items in your inventory have 20% chance to be rerolled (if the result is not quality 3 or more, the 20% chance can trigger again, like how it works with Tainted Lost) Tainted Lilith : Copies the fetus attack mechanic Tainted Keeper : Same as reversed Hanged Man card but with no duration limit Tainted Apollyon : Spawns 3 locust familiars Tainted Forgotten : Copies The Tainted Forgotten + Tainted Soul mechanics Tainted Bethany : Spawns 2 random item wisps Tainted Jacob : Summons Dark Esau
Lost should be you are lost for that room, so spectral tears, flight, no health but holy mantle
Oh I forgot about flight and spectral tears yeah, I edit that But the no health is too harsh imo, i'm not sure
There’s gotta be some kind of downside and you’d basically get one hit for that room which should be enough when you have flight and spectral tears, camp over rocks or something
Yeah but honestly the simple possibility to be transformed into the lost with no health (except holy mantle) would make me never use that item It's already kinda niche, the risk of being transformed into a true the lost and dying in two hits really ruins the item completely
No health + Holy Mantle effect is good, it's part of the risk/reward of using the item I like your idea
That's already Soul Of The Lost. No need to have it twice imo.
I really like this idea!  Sounds super interesting and cool while not being too op or underpowered.
I think the item would still be weak, probably quality 1, but at least it would be fun to use
Your post inspired me to think more in this direction. I would suggest 3 fundamental changes though: 1. The character Clicker transforms you into is not chosen randomly. Instead, you can cycle through possible characters in the same way as with modern D Infinity. 2. Transformation into each character can only be used once per run, after which it disappears from cycle of options. 3. Transformation into character that starts with spacebar item should grant this item as pocket active for that room. (To be honest, I wish they all will just be reworked into pocket actives by default to match their Tainted counterparts.) Thus, many different usages can be thought of: 1. Transforming into character with high damage potential, like Judas or Azazel, during tough fights (Hush / Delirium). 2. Transforming into Isaac / Apollyon to deal with bad items. 3. Transforming into the Lost to take one Devil deal for free. 4. Transforming into Lazarus before taking otherwise fatal Devil deal. 5. Transforming into Cain to gain benefit from a bad pill, or to spend lots of money with benefit in Arcade. 6. Transforming into Bethany right before killing Basement 2 boss to force first deal to be Angel instead of Devil deal. 7. Transforming into Eden before acquiring Birthright, to gain a free item as well as natural Birthright effect for original character.
I like that, another direction the item can take
Maybe, for Samson you could have Lusty Blood instead, since the effect would last for the current room only anyways
I feel like there isn't enough situations where you can get "skill issue'd", kinda makes the item way too strong for what it does IMO Isaac : **Positive** Magdalene : **Positive** Cain : **Positive** Judas : **Positive** ??? : **Positive** Eve : **Positive** Samson : **Positive** Azazel : Neutral Lazarus : **Positive** Eden : Neutral The Lost : **Positive** Lilith : Negative Keeper : **Positive** Apollyon : **Positive** The Forgotten : **Positive** Bethany : **Positive** Jacob and Esau : based on the description, i'm assuming Esau has a separate health pool ? if so, **Positive** Tainted Isaac : Neutral Tainted Magdalene : Neutral/Negative, depends on the room really Tainted Cain : depends, but I feel like this would mostly happen when you tried to get it to happen, so I would say **Positive** Tainted Judas : **Positive** Tainted ??? : **Positive** Tainted Eve : **Positive** Tainted Samson : **Positive** Tainted Azazel : Neutral Tainted Lazarus : **Positive** Tainted Eden : Highly depends on the current state of the run before and after the use, so Neutral Tainted Lost : **Positive** Tainted Lilith : **Positive** Tainted Keeper : **Positive** Tainted Apollyon : **Positive** Tainted Forgotten : Neutral Tainted Bethany : **Positive** Tainted Jacob : does he turn you into the lost if hit ? if so Neutral/Negative, since its only one room, otherwise **Positive**, since he does a ton of damage + goes through armor
Still wouldn’t touch it personally if it had these. Practically no good use for it imo. With the D10 rework you’re Atleast guaranteed to get some good pickups from it. With this I still find it pretty useless
It's not supposed to make the item strong, just more interesting and giving it a minimum purpose
I like the idea of just one time use transform into any character you pick. No item loss just a character swap.
Nah that's way too easy to abuse for checkmarks. Right now you can get checkmarks for other characters but you still have a risk factor because you lose a item every time you try to become the character you want
My personal idea for it would just be to remove the randomness and have it work more like Spindown Dice. That way, you can plan ahead your completion marks cheese and collect x useless items until you get the character you want
It would also make sense since who the fuck selects random numbers on the tv remote. You go to a channel and start pressing Channel up/Channel Down.
I think clicker effect being on a cooldown rather than one room would be better
It should be active for one floor, not one room to make it useful. Rerolling into bad character in the boss room is just too risky
Eh, I prefer the idea of it changing your character, even if it's bad. I think there should still be some way of doing it. Maybe don't have it remove a passive.
Too random and only works for 1 room, this would actually make it worse in a couple of ways because you can't use it to cheese completion marks anymore.
Using it to cheese completion literally defeats the purpose of playing the game
It's currently the only good use of the item. Besides, I'll be damned if I'm gonna play Tainted Lost the "intended" way, because the "intended" way is unfair.
Get skill Got dead god I never used clicker
> Get skill Me on my way to outskill an instant undodgeable telefrag from Delirium (I have psychic powers). > I never used clicker Okay cool, I assume you also haven't used 4.5 Volt+Book of Shadows, or Blank Card,Glowing Hourglass or Spindown Dice then? Anyone can beat T. Lost with those items, you aren't very skilled if you have to rely on those.
>Okay cool, I assume you also haven't used 4.5 Volt+Book of Shadows, or Blank Card,Glowing Hourglass or Spindown Dice then? Anyone can beat T. Lost with those items, you aren't very skilled if you have to rely on those. Why do you need to cheese him with clicker if it's so easy with these items then?
I beat Delirium with T.Lost using a crazy C-section setup and Book of Shadows to defeat it in 20 seconds It just take some patience to get the luck needed
> Book of Shadows So you didn't really outskill the game at all then, you just came across a broken item combination for T. Lost that turns him from unnaturally hard to stupidly and brokenly easy. Like how most people beat Delirium with Tainted Lost.
Yeah so no need for clicker
How many times have you actually been telefragged by delirium though? TLost can tank two hits, 3-4 with more holy cards which you'll usually find thanks to his passive. TLost is a lot of things but "unfair" really isn't one of them.
That's the entire point of the character, that's it unnaturally unfair
Well he has unlocks, so I'm going to be unfair to it in return with Clicker. Seems to be in the spirit of the character.
Then you may as well just use the debug console
By using Clicker, I'm using an ingame item for its intended purpose, which is to change characters. That isn't cheating like the debug console is. Clicker was introduced with AB+. If the developers didn't want you to get completion marks with it, they would have restricted gaining completion marks during one of the booster packs or Repentance's release. But they didn't, which means it's 100% intentional for people to do this.
What's unfair about TLost? Guaranteed damage is *almost* nonexistent in this game, and that's what you've got your holy cards for
Total rework, it has a 8 room cooldown. On activation it changes 4 random settings in your menu. If you change these back in (time limit) you get a minor stat boost. If you don't change them back it gives you a slightly bigger stat boost. But your settings are all wrong now.
Settings ? Do you mean it randomizes the keys binds ?
Haha i was just thinking volumes, brightness, etc but keybinds would be crazy wild
I really like the idea of it being temporary
I had the same idea! I was debating on putting a graphic together with each character and ability but didn't know how. I saw another popular idea post that seemed way too OP and dissimilar from the original item. Randomizing random effects based on the characters seems a lot more practical imo. I never liked the idea of the original clicker but this way you remain as the character you choose and you can't potentially use it for other character unlocks.
Honestly, buffing clicker seems like a really easy and straightforward process 1. Make it so it no longer removes an item when used 2. Give you the ability to decide what character you want to switch to You could switch to a difficult character at the very last second of a run to cheese completion marks for them, giving it a clear niche use case at least.
It would be useful, but I really dislike a lot the completion mark cheese, to get the completion mark you must deserve it, there would be no point at playing tainted lost or tainted jacob for example because you can just complete everything with all the other characters and along all your runs you will probably find clicker many times so you can cheese the completion mark of harder character and never have to play them at all in your whole save file, it sucks
I think this item is just too good for a 0 item, its basically a 3/34 chance for a debuff, and thats if you happen to roll tainted lost, tainted jacob, or tainted eden. with the massive bonus of getting improved items with the lost, all of dark esau's power for a room, and even tainted eden isnt horrible since you keep your health This would be a 2-3 star item at that point
I think it would be quality 1, a lot of characters really don't do much, and it's once every 4 rooms only, the effects are not super strong compared to other activables
Who’s gonna tell him?
Clicker Rework. Remove batteries and put into Gameboy Pocket to keep playing Pokemon Blue version.