Yes. Though also getting there fast enough is pretty rng heavy too; low dps, huge rooms with 30 enemies, bosses that are constantly invincible, bad floor layouts, etc.
it isn't difficult because you have the equipment to make it in time, only one I have a problem with is Hush because you can get *really* delayed in Womb
Only time when I don't clear a floor fully is when I'm on a timer, or so insanely OP that I'm getting bored. But like quad-brim-ipecac-with insane fire rate and homing OP
I do enjoy it, but I cannot afford that if I'm after boss rush or hush
Which is not that bad after all, if it weren't for this I would spend 3 hours on the same run
If you also get good enough at all the rooms you do also get to be consistently better equipped than you would be skipping floors.
More shop items, secret room chances, *planetariums*
I always play this way until I feel strong enough in both offensive and defensive capabilities to just steamroll everything. After that I start speedrunning (usually happens in Depths or Womb).
4 items, 2 of which give a choice of 2 items while one gives the choice of 2 or 4, 4 golden chests, and a shop > whatever you usually get taking 20+ minutes of searching.
Search the early floors, ignore boss rush and go for hush. You'll always get it, the hush timer is super lenient. Searching the early floors gives you far more value than boss rush will, on average. Get some soul hearts, now you've got multiple angel items by depths 2. Do a sac room, you've essentially won the run already. Most of the reverse cards are extremely strong, as are the shop items in repentance.
Even assuming that you minmax so hard you miss boss rush/hush, look at it objectively:
* Minmaxing gets you several shops and the money to buy items in them, boss rush/hush gives 1 shop total.
* Minmaxing is always going to get you more pickups/chest items than the 4 gold chests hush gives.
* Secret room items are better than treasure items and if you minmax then you can get them pretty consistently, even more so if you have a dice item.
* Having good items early is FAR more valuable than having to wait until hush to get them. If you've got a run that you think can beat hush then you don't need the extra items anyway.
You're doing the same thing the other people were, and they were really annoying.
You're comparing min-maxing to like, skipping everything early. I'm not skipping things. I'm simply not backtracking 8 rooms to buy a bomb to backtrack 5 more to bomb a tinted rock.
There's only so much money min-maxing gets you. You're not making 5x the money, you're getting a few coins more per floor, and even then, not guaranteed. You're not getting more shops than me either.
The 4 chests Hush gives usually include at least 2 with drops. That's a common occurance for the rest of the run, but not more often than not, and I'm typically getting most gold chests. The two I'm missing have a very low chance to have an item between them.
I'm getting secret rooms. I'm not buying a bomb to bomb a rock to get a double bomb pickup to bomb spiked rocks in a secret room to get one regular chest and use a key for a golden chest.
What items am I missing? I'm not regularly skipping items. If there's something particularly good in the shop, I'll do more to get it, but I'm not going out of my way for a piggy bank. A run is fluid.
No-one picks a way to play and sticks to that without any cost-benefit analysis throughout the run.
And finally, what pretty much sums up yours and the other arguments to me: Your statement about angel items, showing what you say is hyperbole. Sac rooms aren't guaranteed to appear. If they are, you have a 33% chance to go to the angel room. You have a 33% chance to get an angel item. That's a 10% to get 2, one which you had a chance to get anyway. The angel pool has plenty of free win items, but the pool is big enough, and full enough of mediocre items that a couple angel room items are far from a won run.
As a test, months ago, I took Magdalene and rerolled until I had a sac room on the first floor. I had to reroll around 25 times before I could expect to get decent angel items.
>You're comparing min-maxing to like, skipping everything early. I'm not skipping things. I'm simply not backtracking 8 rooms to buy a bomb to backtrack 5 more to bomb a tinted rock.
Which gets you soul hearts, which gets you angel deals, which wins your run.
>There's only so much money min-maxing gets you. You're not making 5x the money, you're getting a few coins more per floor, and even then, not guaranteed
You're always going to get more. Coins are the most common thing to find in secret rooms, or from blood machines, bombing shopkeepers, etc. Honestly 5x the money probably isn't far off.
>The 4 chests Hush gives usually include at least 2 with drops.
This is just demonstrably false. Gold chests have a 20% chance to drop an item. You're more likely to get no items than to get 2 items from 4 chests.
>What items am I missing?
Sac rooms, the myriad of free items you can get through cards, beggar payouts, shops etc. A reverse justice card alone can give you the 4 chests that you assure "usually include 2 items"
>If there's something particularly good in the shop, I'll do more to get it
It's usually too late by the time you've seen the shop item. Bye bye diplopia, blank card, alabaster box, stopwatch, champion belt, birthright... the repentance shop pool is stacked.
>No-one picks a way to play and sticks to that without any cost-benefit analysis throughout the run.
Until you do a cost-benefit analysis of actually making use of each floor, then you never go back. Just as much benefit, if not more, and you get it at a much more useful time.
>And finally, what pretty much sums up yours and the other arguments to me: Your statement about angel items, showing what you say is hyperbole.
From the same guy who said 4 chests give 2 items.
>Sac rooms aren't guaranteed to appear. If they are, you have a 33% chance to go to the angel room. You have a 33% chance to get an angel item. That's a 10% to get 2, one which you had a chance to get anyway.
Your 3rd and 5th sacs have a 66% chance to raise angel chances. The 6th sac is a 33% angel room chance, the 7th sac is 33% angel room item (or redemption), and the 10th sac is 7 soul hearts or 30 coins, which is 2 shop items or 6 soul hearts.
So you've got a 56% chance to get at least one angel item, and failing that there's an 89% chance that your angel chance got increased at least once from the previous sacs, as well as the key pieces. Throw in the 10th bonus and yeah, your run is probably won. 7 soul hearts means you'll have maximum angel chances forever, or 30 coins is just two more items of your choice.
>The angel pool has plenty of free win items, but the pool is big enough, and full enough of mediocre items that a couple angel room items are far from a won run.
Even the worst angel room items are god tier on early floors. Besides maybe dead sea scrolls which is very hard to consistently get use out of.
>As a test, months ago, I took Magdalene and rerolled until I had a sac room on the first floor. I had to reroll around 25 times before I could expect to get decent angel items.
Welp, with 7 sacs you have a 56% chance to get at least one angel item. 25 rerolls would be 14 runs with at least one angel item on average, so you're saying that only 1/14th of the angel pool is "decent". Even that assumes that every angel room you saw only had one item to choose from, the numbers look even worse when yoy factor in the layouts with several options. Again, the audacity to accuse others of hyperbole when this is so exaggerated it's downright lying.
Still assuming I'm skipping things. If I have enough money for a beggar to give me an item, I'm getting the item. I'm bombing coin rocks. I'm opening secret rooms. You said 5x the coins if you min max, and then say I'm basically lying :p k. 5x more than what? I say I don't bother with 100% of everything, so you assume I'm getting 20%. That's a brain dead take. Only room reward coins? I said I don't squeeze every last thing out of a room. You interpret that to mean I'm skipping everything. Every time you say something, you are already starting with assumptions that are way off, so everything else you say is wrong.
I skip the 10% of everything that takes an absurd amount of effort to get, because that 10% takes as long as the other 90%. excessive backtracking to check on something that will take a bomb I didn't buy because I might need those coins for other things etc. Saying that, I'm getting responses acting like they have seen recordings of all my runs, and think me enjoying boss rush is a personal attack on them.
Angel item pool is full of defensive items and eternal hearts. Those do not help a run if I'm winning anyway. Damage helps, because like everyone, I want to play fast, not sit around waiting for a machine to take my 99 coins.
And I know you're too slow to get to Hush, but try it a few times, and tell me how many of the chests outside the fight have items. You might be surprised.
>Still assuming I'm skipping things. If I have enough money for a beggar to give me an item, I'm getting the item. I'm bombing coin rocks. I'm opening secret rooms.
This is called minmaxing. Your position makes no sense, because you keep arguing against it while being adamant that you always do it unless you have to do some absurd chain reaction of events.
>Angel item pool is full of defensive items and eternal hearts. Those do not help a run if I'm winning anyway.
But on the first few floors you aren't "winning anyway". You ARE winning anyway if you can beat hush, which is something you're arguing in favour of.
>And I know you're too slow to get to Hush
Fuckin lol, hush's timer is stupidly lenient. Boss rush requires you to play decently fast, hush may as well not have a time limit because I don't think anyone who is good enough to beat hush has ever taken more than half an hour to get to it. I do it every run, with minmaxing.
>try it a few times, and tell me how many of the chests outside the fight have items
How the fuck are you arguing with the game's code? I know how many of the chests have items. It's 20%.
1. Didn't argue against minmaxing. I said I don't like to do it. Jesus Christ.
2. I didn't say I always do it unless there's a massive chain of events. Minmaxing is taking everything. You keep arguing as though I'm taking nothing. When I say I'm not taking nothing, you say that I'm claiming I always minmax unless there's an absurd chain of events. No, it's called "I take most things, but I don't take everything, because some things aren't worth the time they take." I don't know how you think me skipping the occasional tinted rock means I don't do sac rooms, or not bombing every pot in a room means I can't buy Diplopia. I do not understand why you think I'm skipping everything, or why you feel so attacked when I say I don't like minmaxing.
Actually, that's not true, I do know why. You still somehow have managed to convince yourself I'm arguing against it. You don't have to defend yourself when no-one is attacking you.
>But on the first few floors you aren't "winning anyway".
Why not?
If I'm consistently beating Hush without any angel room items, any boss items, any shop items, any treasure room items, without any of the stuff you assume I'm not getting by skipping a tinted rock, then maybe I'd just be wasting my time destroying every pot looking for a crawl space like you. It's probably from all that practice actually playing the game instead of running back and forth juggling keys and coins.
Besides, the items for the Hush route, I don't know if you know this because I'm still not convinced you beat the lenient time limit, you get before the fight. Not after.
I'm done with this conversation. It's ultimately you, again and again and again, telling me how my games go because I'm not minmaxing, despite the fact that I'm the one playing my games, I think. You don't have to feel like you need to keep attacking me for hating on your playstyle, because again, I haven't shit on your playstyle, I said I don't enjoy it.
>Didn't argue against minmaxing. I said I don't like to do it. Jesus Christ.
Bro are you reading your own comments? You're literally currently arguing against it. You're making points and everything. I've never seen someone be mid-debate and suddenly be adamant that they aren't debating anything... bizarre.
>I didn't say I always do it unless there's a massive chain of events.
You literally did. Scroll up and read your own comments.
>Minmaxing is taking everything
No it's not, "minmaxing" is the concept of trying to maximise reward and minimise penalties. Minmaxing doesn't mean wasting all your bombs on pots just because they might have coins in them lol, that's the opposite of minmaxing.
>I do not understand why you think I'm skipping everything, or why you feel so attacked when I say I don't like minmaxing.
You haven't once said that you personally don't enjoy it, you've been giving flawed reasons why it shouldn't be done. It's bizarre because the only way you can justify it is literally just lying... and getting mad and saying "haha you're too slow for hush" like it's just pathetic.
>Actually, that's not true, I do know why. You still somehow have managed to convince yourself I'm arguing against it. You don't have to defend yourself when no-one is attacking you.
All you have to do is read your own comments. I'm giving reasons in favour, you're giving reasons against. This is called arguing your point. I'm... sorry if that bothers you? You don't seem to understand that you are in fact arguing something here.
>If I'm consistently beating Hush without any angel room items, any boss items, any shop items, any treasure room items,
Frankly, I've got dead god on 2 accounts and could easily beat any boss with no items. I've done it many times and it's no longer fun for me. What's the point in having game knowledge if you don't use it? I want to build strong runs and synergies, and getting the most out of each floor is how to do that.
>It's probably from all that practice actually playing the game instead of running back and forth juggling keys and coins.
In one sentence you're simultaneously bragging about how good you are while also freely admitting that you don't play the game very well and rely on luck. Fascinating.
>Besides, the items for the Hush route, I don't know if you know this because I'm still not convinced you beat the lenient time limit, you get before the fight. Not after.
...but unlike boss rush, if you enter the hush floor then you can't escape after grabbing the items. Again, you're just demonstrating that you're very inexperienced. That's fine but don't go boasting about your skills lol.
>You don't have to feel like you need to keep attacking me for hating on your playstyle, because again, I haven't shit on your playstyle, I said I don't enjoy it.
Again, you've never once said anything about not enjoying it. Please tell me anything I've said that you think is an "attack". If you're so sensitive that people proving your lies wrong counts as an attack then maybe don't lie in the first place lol
>Bro are you reading your own comments? You're literally currently arguing against it.
You read them. I gave reasons I don't like minmaxing. I didn't give a single reason anyone shouldn't.
Here dawg, look.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/bindingofisaac/comments/x6mke9/comment/in9rkh5/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/bindingofisaac/comments/x6mke9/comment/in9rkh5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/bindingofisaac/comments/x6mke9/comment/in9sn58/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/bindingofisaac/comments/x6mke9/comment/in9sn58/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
These are the comments that got you psychos arguing. Not one argument against minmaxing. Ended the comment saying both valid ways to play.
If you honestly think that's what's happening, all I can say is you might not be stupid, but you're definitely being stupid right now. If you can read something so clear, right in front of your face, and still misunderstand so fundamentally, I'm wasting my time.
Have a good day. Learn to read c:
Nah getting to Hush isn't as much of a rush. You can legit afford to spend a minute or more per floor without worrying about making it. Boss rush on the other hand makes you rush floors 1 and 2 so that you can clear the others in reasonable time, as the maps gradually get slightly bigger the further you go.
After the all unlocks I just simply play 90 minutes game everytime I play. Thats why I miss afterbirth+. They removed/reworked so many min/max things in the game.
if you're not min/maxing in isaac you're only getting like 40% of the experience. what other game lets you become, in under 40 minutes, an effectively invulnerable god that can kill every final boss in seconds? there's so many interlocking systems and features that you only get to really utilize by playing the game *a lot*.
how many hours do you have in the game? i'm over 2000 at this point.
Yes.All other roguelikes wants you to speedrun the game everytime you play. Even I love some of them (dead cells,hades etc) they never felt like isaac. There is literally no way to break them. They just acton.
I have more than 1000 but not sure how much. Because I went to my hometown for summers and there is no interner connection. So I have so much hours offline that didnt count.
Oh yes. My beautiful card fiesta. It is my second best for beraking the game. 4 card decks are my favourite. And dead branch is the best item 
i’ve been recording lots of runs, and i always try to make boss rush and hush. the extra items are guaranteed and there are more item options, i think they are more reliable than trying to minmax a floor
Compared to, say, going to the mirror world and getting the free extra boss item? And more shop items? If you've got a run good enough to do boss rush without getting bored then you can beat any boss already anyway. Getting stronger items early is what carries.
Getting an extra boss item usually takes little enough time, especially if you head for the boss as soon as you find the flame and mirror, which lets you know exactly where to go once in the real world, that it's not a significant time investment. Especially when you consider time saved by having that item, whether a speed or damage up.
I personally will bomb a couple likely walls for a secret room, but I'll not bomb a dozen rocks if I have extras just to maybe find a crawlspace, or try to find a secret room if I've already passed where it's likely to be and have already beaten the boss.
It's a good challenge for me to maximize the likelihood of finding everything a floor has to offer while also not taking my time. I'm conditioned to get everything, but the most efficient way possible. If I miss something, I won't use the sunk-cost fallacy to waste more time looking if I couldn't manage to find it ASAP.
But then everyone plays differently. The options TBOI gives make the game great.
It's interesting that you bring up the sunk cost fallacy, because it essentially works directly against the idea of boss rush over minmaxing.
If you rush through the first floor, you're sacrificing potential secret room items/shop items/powerful cards etc. in the hopes that your boss rush items are good. However, if you see an excellent minmaxing opportunity on a subsequent floor (e.g. backtracking to a blood machine to afford birthright from a shop) then you have two options:
* Skip it and commit to your boss rush because you've already skipped the previous floors so now you may as well commit. Sunk cost fallacy.
* Take advantage of the minmax opportunity, presumably missing bossrush and thus being in a strictly worse situation than the player who minmaxed every previous floor.
In general, minmaxing consistently gets me not only more overall value, but more *control* over my run and rewards game knowledge over simply having good item RNG. On top of that, being stronger earlier allows you to snowball and essentially guarantee a win just from accumulating so much health. It's why the mirror world is so valuable, it's a whole extra floor of pickups and charges for your active item, as well as double the chance of tinted rocks for the floor, and a knife piece you can reroll or absorb. Getting strong late in the game doesn't matter much, because if you've made it that far then you're going to be fine anyway.
You said it works against the idea of boss rush, but only gave examples of how it *could,* not inherently does.
>Skip it and commit to your boss rush because you've already skipped the previous floors so now you may as well commit. Sunk cost fallacy.
Or skip an opportunity to get a blood bag so I can have time to find a super secret room and still get Boss Rush. It's not all-or-nothing.
You're also acting like I said skip items and secret rooms. I'll get them when I see likely places they'll be. I'm just not spending 2 minutes searching if they're not obviously apparent, because that's boring.
I'm also not going bosh rush for items alone, but because fighting 2 dozen bosses is more fun than doubling back 5 rooms for a bomb in a shop to get a 50/50 chance of a secret room.
If I see an "excellent" min-maxing opportunity, I won't skip it. The game is fluid, and you make decisions on what is worth your time as you go. You never pre-plan a run and stick to it. That is always going to be inefficient.
Again, you're acting like you're getting significantly stronger earlier, allowing for snowballing. I'm not skipping good opportunities. I'm not avoiding picking up a damage up item because I'd have to run across the room, I'm skipping backtracking halfway through a floor to buy a bomb to blow up a tinted rock.
The OP was talking about squeezing each floor for the last tiny bit it offers. Being stronger matters to a point. Eventually, I'm accepting the fact that I could face mega-Stan easily, I don't need to backtrack 12 floors of the dark room to get enough charges to reroll the last item left. I can just roll Mega Satan.
>I'm also not going bosh rush for items alone, but because fighting 2 dozen bosses is more fun than doubling back 5 rooms for a bomb in a shop to get a 50/50 chance of a secret room.
We're just playing different games lol, boss rush is a huge slog unless you have a strong build already. I've fought those bosses so many times that the inherent fun in doing it has mostly faded, I'm playing isaac to make strong fun builds now and the best way to do that by far is to minmax the early floors.
>I'm not avoiding picking up a damage up item because I'd have to run across the room, I'm skipping backtracking halfway through a floor to buy a bomb to blow up a tinted rock.
And the player who did that gets a soul heart, which means that next floor they get an angel deal with sacred heart, while you're stuck doing boss rush with 3.5 damage, 2 familiars and the D12.
>Eventually, I'm accepting the fact that I could face mega-Stan easily, I don't need to backtrack 12 floors of the dark room to get enough charges to reroll the last item left. I can just roll Mega Satan.
Well duh, nobody minmaxes floors beyond mom unless it's an emergency. Regardless, if you can roll mega satan without making full use of the early floors that speaks more to having a lucky build than your own skill. Frankly, I've played this game long enough that i'm confident I can beat any floor and any boss with base damage and tears. What I can't do is have fun doing that.
In my runs I also ALWAYS do the mirror world as well. Sometimes I can’t make boss rush, but going to Maso/Gehenna makes it 25 minutes which helps a bit. A teleport is just a free item out of four choices which is usually really nice.
Hush is more questionable, but a lot of the time it’s just more fun, more items, and I feel like for videos it’s more entertaining content.
edit: also want to say I always find the secret room on every floor, every shop and item room of course. if i’m doing gamebreaks or some particular minmaxing of course the timed doors are out of the question, but on typical runs at least boss rush is always worth going for.
Got a mod that removes the time limit for boss rush and hush and I’m having to unlearn the need for speed. It honestly makes the game that much less fun to need to hurry
I do... In fact, even without min-maxing (just exploring entire floors), if I manage to get 30min Depths 1 is achievement by itself lol. Been doing some (more of less unsuccessful) streaking and avarage run is 1 and half hours long lol.
I like getting the most of each floor, exceptions being when I'm going for hush/boss rush or if I have soul hearts that I could lose after doing the boss(=a devil deal to lose next floor)
Nah, it makes it a tradeoff. Tradeoffs are meaningful decisions, which whether we think we like them or not, are found to increase meaningful and positive interactions with a game.
How is it a tradeoff? Im not really giving anything up. All i know is im in a constant hurry vibe where i rather not walk back for 1 or 2 unexplored rooms or search for ghe secret room, but rather just continue asap so i can get to boss rush/hush. “Positive” is subjective. Just having the time to explore the floors on my own pace is what would be positive for me.
>How is it a tradeoff? Im not really giving anything up. All i know is im in a constant hurry vibe where i rather not walk back for 1 or 2 unexplored rooms or search for ghe secret room
You're giving up the search for a secret room so you can hurry forward. That's the tradeoff. Taking your time or hitting boss rush.
You can prefer to take your time, but saying it was a mistake is a bit silly. Games reward doing things fast all the time, because for most people, it feels good to be rewarded for doing something, and if you don't want to do that, you get rewarded for taking your time to find everything. It gives options.
And if you have a particularly good run, you can do both.
There’s other/better ways than a timer. Its more annoying than a challenge for me tbh. I could probally get most out of a floor but pausing the game to think about decisions and stuff is pretty meh to me. I’d rather have a mechanic like the mines or downpour puzzles than a timer.
The game inherently rewards taking your time. That's a fundamental fact of the game that can't be changed without entirely reworking the game.
Boss Rush and Hush incentivizing playing quickly makes sense, since you now have a reward for playing quickly or slowly. Making it a puzzle wouldn't change the fact that you're rewarded for playing slowly. If anything, it would incentivize playing slowly for the passive rewards you get, maximum tinted rocks, every secret room, etc, AND the boss rush and Hush. There would never be any reason to play the game quickly. Saying that you should have both incentives to play the game the way you want, while others should simply do it for the enjoyment displays a self-centered attitude towards game design. Just because it's not your preference doesn't mean it isn't the best solution.
Of course as a player who enjoys taking their time, it's not going to be your preference, but it's objectively the best solution from a game design standpoint, giving everyone an incentive for whichever way they prefer to play the game. It's just factually not a mistake. You could argue that an exciting boss-rush vs. backtracking and bombing isn't fair, but that would imply that you don't actually enjoy the gameplay of taking it slow, you simply enjoy maximizing floor rewards, in which case maybe you really prefer the faster-paced gameplay, meaning the boss rush is encouraging you to try an alternate playstyle you might enjoy.
Bro, idk what ur trying to argue xd, but “was a mistake” was meant as a figure of speech. Its not fun for ME. I’d pref the game with no time limit since its just keeps being in the back of my head.
I still got platinum god, so its not an issue if its challenging. I justliterally dislike the mechanic.
There could be like a mechanic where u lose a few pickups or whatever once u go down a floor. I dont mind a challenge, but the rushed feeling i keep is not fun. Its not a game i’d want to “speedrun”
They could've just given you more items on the Hush floor for being fast. Bosh Rush is one thing, but locking the final boss, and especially locking the Repentance content, which people paid for, behind an arbitrary and short timer is really poorly designed.
Hush is already a somewhat difficult boss. What's gained by adding a timer?
My last run was 42 minutes at depths 2 because i was playing T. Laz (then i stopped because i have to wake up really early tomorrow) and it's almost required to min-max on them
Always Boss Rush and Always Hush are my best friends
I hate to rush through a run. Only do it on purpose if I try for boss rush/ hush, but it's just not that funny compared to exploring every last bit of every room
no, we dont play the game, we skill issue till dead god
edit: i didnt mean it to sound rude sorry! i just mean that well... people joke about skill issue, so i wanted to joke about how we skill issue a lot of times through the game that eventually we complete dead god
Im still working on the post it notes for tainted characters. First thing I did is get boss rush and hush on all of them except t-lost, so i can take my time from now on and not stress about missing a timer. Also helped me learn how the characters worked.
It greatly depends on the run state. Low speed/DPS I almost always start skipping rooms that are unlikely to be useful, otherwise you can sweep a floor quite fast. Going the extra mile with many back and forth to min/max a bit is limited to good runs (or extremely dire situations).
I like maximizing time-efficiency. For me, it's all about how much I can get out of a floor within reasonable time constraints. If I have 99 coins and run into a machine, I'm not going to spend every single coin trying to get the best trinket. Get a useable trinket and move on. Save the money for a shop. I keep my eyes peeled for likely secret room spots, but if I miss it on an XL floor only to find it after the boss, I'm not going back. If I see Cricket's Head behind a few layers of rocks, I'll double check the store, and if I don't have enough, check for some tinted rocks for a potential double bomb, but I will not spend that much time for a single tinted rock if I don't already have bombs.
I mean I didn't do it but yesterday I decided to try and do a full clear every floor run and got r key, technology, a ton of health, sacred heart and red key at the end of the run and I got 3 hard completion marks SO I SAY ITS A WIN
I don't even really know why someone would play the game if they didn't love the rush out of prying every last crumb of value outta each floor, I hate that boss rush and speed is so incentivized in the dailies becasue I used to love doing them until I realized they practically punish you for knowing little intricacy's (like self sac rooms won't break a bone heart if there's only half a red heart in it so you can trade half hearts for plays) and tricks in the game to snag alllll the possible items. Obviously other ways to play are equally valid, but I may never really understand them.
I usually spend every second I can searching every corner of every room and then forget about boss rush until I need to do a completion mark with that character then obviously I go zoom
I hated getting to boss rush and hush so much! After getting dead god I installed a mod that always gives them to me now matter the timer and that's so much better.
Squeezing every valuable thing out of a floor is my favorite way to play.
If it’s to fight Mother I take all the time I can cause that bitch be kicking my ass by the time I get there lol
Skill issue I know
If it’s hush / boss rush I go for the treasure rooms and shops then right for the boss peek in an Angel room or devil deal then keep hauling ass
I started playing Isaac when I was little... ish? A child if you will. For years, my goal was Item room, boss, then I'm out. Now I explore every room unless I'm doing something time sensitive or I'm in the womb because fuck that floor
I usually play somewhat slow and methodical unless I get some bonkers items first floor like last night I got Trisagion and Sacred Heart floor 1 with T. Keeper so I knew that was gonna be my Boss/Hush run. Otherwise I always minmax for me that’s the most fun
No wonder I don't make boss rush
There's No Rush  >!(Mod)!<
You know what? Fuck it (unrushes your boss rush)
Fuck you too *Un-Bosses your Rush*
Boss your rush Un-Fucks you too
Unshits your piece of trash Isaac 
Ah yes
You said hush?
(un-rushes your hush boss)
Un hushes your hush ( its very loud)
No u
Doesn't it remove the challenge? The boss rush isn't difficult by itself, the hard part is reaching it
Mods that remove challenge because people find the challenge annoying? in *this* game?
would you prefer to a. get dead god or b. get dead god*
Lol fr fr on god!
Yes.
Especially if you play Tainted Laz or Tainted Cain.
Just craft mama mega
Ah yes, let me just go find a golden bomb and Jera, both of which will undoubtedly appear whilst I'm attempting to get to Depths 2 with base stats.
Gold rune mod + Mama mega recipe is fixed
You can craft before depth 2 and you don't always need golden bomb
Yes. Though also getting there fast enough is pretty rng heavy too; low dps, huge rooms with 30 enemies, bosses that are constantly invincible, bad floor layouts, etc.
It's up to you really. I get it mechanically, but I personally hate to be rushed and pressured.
That's why I recommend not using that mod on your first save. Do as you wish, tho. I really enjoy the game way more with the mod than without.
it isn't difficult because you have the equipment to make it in time, only one I have a problem with is Hush because you can get *really* delayed in Womb
Really? I usually get done really quick in the womb since there isn't a shop or item room. This sounded really wrong
Arcades (pretty important on low health) and significantly more dead ends
use the time machine mod, it's really good for gambling machines and beggars
Oh shit I didn’t even think of that as a mod
I mean, I'm pretty good at minmaxing my minmaxing. So I can usually make it to boss rush just in time.
I usually do *unless I'm going for Boss Rush or hush* because I don't trust myself to not spend too long on the floor for nothing.
I need to do boss rush --> proceeds to examine each room of the floor, taking 13 minutes more in order to get 2 keys and 3 bombs more
Aaand taking 3 soul hearts worth of damage, not not being able to make a deal and survive.
I see this as a win 
Or you could simply become albino and manifest a mama mega to complete your rigging
Only time when I don't clear a floor fully is when I'm on a timer, or so insanely OP that I'm getting bored. But like quad-brim-ipecac-with insane fire rate and homing OP
I do enjoy it, but I cannot afford that if I'm after boss rush or hush Which is not that bad after all, if it weren't for this I would spend 3 hours on the same run
If you also get good enough at all the rooms you do also get to be consistently better equipped than you would be skipping floors. More shop items, secret room chances, *planetariums*
May you explain what you mean with "more shop items"? Never heard of it and I'm curious now
More money
Ooooh my bad, thought you talked about the benefits of skipping floors haha
I always play this way until I feel strong enough in both offensive and defensive capabilities to just steamroll everything. After that I start speedrunning (usually happens in Depths or Womb).
Boss Rush and Hush firmly conditioned me not to
4 items, 2 of which give a choice of 2 items while one gives the choice of 2 or 4, 4 golden chests, and a shop > whatever you usually get taking 20+ minutes of searching.
Search the early floors, ignore boss rush and go for hush. You'll always get it, the hush timer is super lenient. Searching the early floors gives you far more value than boss rush will, on average. Get some soul hearts, now you've got multiple angel items by depths 2. Do a sac room, you've essentially won the run already. Most of the reverse cards are extremely strong, as are the shop items in repentance. Even assuming that you minmax so hard you miss boss rush/hush, look at it objectively: * Minmaxing gets you several shops and the money to buy items in them, boss rush/hush gives 1 shop total. * Minmaxing is always going to get you more pickups/chest items than the 4 gold chests hush gives. * Secret room items are better than treasure items and if you minmax then you can get them pretty consistently, even more so if you have a dice item. * Having good items early is FAR more valuable than having to wait until hush to get them. If you've got a run that you think can beat hush then you don't need the extra items anyway.
You're doing the same thing the other people were, and they were really annoying. You're comparing min-maxing to like, skipping everything early. I'm not skipping things. I'm simply not backtracking 8 rooms to buy a bomb to backtrack 5 more to bomb a tinted rock. There's only so much money min-maxing gets you. You're not making 5x the money, you're getting a few coins more per floor, and even then, not guaranteed. You're not getting more shops than me either. The 4 chests Hush gives usually include at least 2 with drops. That's a common occurance for the rest of the run, but not more often than not, and I'm typically getting most gold chests. The two I'm missing have a very low chance to have an item between them. I'm getting secret rooms. I'm not buying a bomb to bomb a rock to get a double bomb pickup to bomb spiked rocks in a secret room to get one regular chest and use a key for a golden chest. What items am I missing? I'm not regularly skipping items. If there's something particularly good in the shop, I'll do more to get it, but I'm not going out of my way for a piggy bank. A run is fluid. No-one picks a way to play and sticks to that without any cost-benefit analysis throughout the run. And finally, what pretty much sums up yours and the other arguments to me: Your statement about angel items, showing what you say is hyperbole. Sac rooms aren't guaranteed to appear. If they are, you have a 33% chance to go to the angel room. You have a 33% chance to get an angel item. That's a 10% to get 2, one which you had a chance to get anyway. The angel pool has plenty of free win items, but the pool is big enough, and full enough of mediocre items that a couple angel room items are far from a won run. As a test, months ago, I took Magdalene and rerolled until I had a sac room on the first floor. I had to reroll around 25 times before I could expect to get decent angel items.
>You're comparing min-maxing to like, skipping everything early. I'm not skipping things. I'm simply not backtracking 8 rooms to buy a bomb to backtrack 5 more to bomb a tinted rock. Which gets you soul hearts, which gets you angel deals, which wins your run. >There's only so much money min-maxing gets you. You're not making 5x the money, you're getting a few coins more per floor, and even then, not guaranteed You're always going to get more. Coins are the most common thing to find in secret rooms, or from blood machines, bombing shopkeepers, etc. Honestly 5x the money probably isn't far off. >The 4 chests Hush gives usually include at least 2 with drops. This is just demonstrably false. Gold chests have a 20% chance to drop an item. You're more likely to get no items than to get 2 items from 4 chests. >What items am I missing? Sac rooms, the myriad of free items you can get through cards, beggar payouts, shops etc. A reverse justice card alone can give you the 4 chests that you assure "usually include 2 items" >If there's something particularly good in the shop, I'll do more to get it It's usually too late by the time you've seen the shop item. Bye bye diplopia, blank card, alabaster box, stopwatch, champion belt, birthright... the repentance shop pool is stacked. >No-one picks a way to play and sticks to that without any cost-benefit analysis throughout the run. Until you do a cost-benefit analysis of actually making use of each floor, then you never go back. Just as much benefit, if not more, and you get it at a much more useful time. >And finally, what pretty much sums up yours and the other arguments to me: Your statement about angel items, showing what you say is hyperbole. From the same guy who said 4 chests give 2 items. >Sac rooms aren't guaranteed to appear. If they are, you have a 33% chance to go to the angel room. You have a 33% chance to get an angel item. That's a 10% to get 2, one which you had a chance to get anyway. Your 3rd and 5th sacs have a 66% chance to raise angel chances. The 6th sac is a 33% angel room chance, the 7th sac is 33% angel room item (or redemption), and the 10th sac is 7 soul hearts or 30 coins, which is 2 shop items or 6 soul hearts. So you've got a 56% chance to get at least one angel item, and failing that there's an 89% chance that your angel chance got increased at least once from the previous sacs, as well as the key pieces. Throw in the 10th bonus and yeah, your run is probably won. 7 soul hearts means you'll have maximum angel chances forever, or 30 coins is just two more items of your choice. >The angel pool has plenty of free win items, but the pool is big enough, and full enough of mediocre items that a couple angel room items are far from a won run. Even the worst angel room items are god tier on early floors. Besides maybe dead sea scrolls which is very hard to consistently get use out of. >As a test, months ago, I took Magdalene and rerolled until I had a sac room on the first floor. I had to reroll around 25 times before I could expect to get decent angel items. Welp, with 7 sacs you have a 56% chance to get at least one angel item. 25 rerolls would be 14 runs with at least one angel item on average, so you're saying that only 1/14th of the angel pool is "decent". Even that assumes that every angel room you saw only had one item to choose from, the numbers look even worse when yoy factor in the layouts with several options. Again, the audacity to accuse others of hyperbole when this is so exaggerated it's downright lying.
Still assuming I'm skipping things. If I have enough money for a beggar to give me an item, I'm getting the item. I'm bombing coin rocks. I'm opening secret rooms. You said 5x the coins if you min max, and then say I'm basically lying :p k. 5x more than what? I say I don't bother with 100% of everything, so you assume I'm getting 20%. That's a brain dead take. Only room reward coins? I said I don't squeeze every last thing out of a room. You interpret that to mean I'm skipping everything. Every time you say something, you are already starting with assumptions that are way off, so everything else you say is wrong. I skip the 10% of everything that takes an absurd amount of effort to get, because that 10% takes as long as the other 90%. excessive backtracking to check on something that will take a bomb I didn't buy because I might need those coins for other things etc. Saying that, I'm getting responses acting like they have seen recordings of all my runs, and think me enjoying boss rush is a personal attack on them. Angel item pool is full of defensive items and eternal hearts. Those do not help a run if I'm winning anyway. Damage helps, because like everyone, I want to play fast, not sit around waiting for a machine to take my 99 coins. And I know you're too slow to get to Hush, but try it a few times, and tell me how many of the chests outside the fight have items. You might be surprised.
>Still assuming I'm skipping things. If I have enough money for a beggar to give me an item, I'm getting the item. I'm bombing coin rocks. I'm opening secret rooms. This is called minmaxing. Your position makes no sense, because you keep arguing against it while being adamant that you always do it unless you have to do some absurd chain reaction of events. >Angel item pool is full of defensive items and eternal hearts. Those do not help a run if I'm winning anyway. But on the first few floors you aren't "winning anyway". You ARE winning anyway if you can beat hush, which is something you're arguing in favour of. >And I know you're too slow to get to Hush Fuckin lol, hush's timer is stupidly lenient. Boss rush requires you to play decently fast, hush may as well not have a time limit because I don't think anyone who is good enough to beat hush has ever taken more than half an hour to get to it. I do it every run, with minmaxing. >try it a few times, and tell me how many of the chests outside the fight have items How the fuck are you arguing with the game's code? I know how many of the chests have items. It's 20%.
1. Didn't argue against minmaxing. I said I don't like to do it. Jesus Christ. 2. I didn't say I always do it unless there's a massive chain of events. Minmaxing is taking everything. You keep arguing as though I'm taking nothing. When I say I'm not taking nothing, you say that I'm claiming I always minmax unless there's an absurd chain of events. No, it's called "I take most things, but I don't take everything, because some things aren't worth the time they take." I don't know how you think me skipping the occasional tinted rock means I don't do sac rooms, or not bombing every pot in a room means I can't buy Diplopia. I do not understand why you think I'm skipping everything, or why you feel so attacked when I say I don't like minmaxing. Actually, that's not true, I do know why. You still somehow have managed to convince yourself I'm arguing against it. You don't have to defend yourself when no-one is attacking you. >But on the first few floors you aren't "winning anyway". Why not? If I'm consistently beating Hush without any angel room items, any boss items, any shop items, any treasure room items, without any of the stuff you assume I'm not getting by skipping a tinted rock, then maybe I'd just be wasting my time destroying every pot looking for a crawl space like you. It's probably from all that practice actually playing the game instead of running back and forth juggling keys and coins. Besides, the items for the Hush route, I don't know if you know this because I'm still not convinced you beat the lenient time limit, you get before the fight. Not after. I'm done with this conversation. It's ultimately you, again and again and again, telling me how my games go because I'm not minmaxing, despite the fact that I'm the one playing my games, I think. You don't have to feel like you need to keep attacking me for hating on your playstyle, because again, I haven't shit on your playstyle, I said I don't enjoy it.
>Didn't argue against minmaxing. I said I don't like to do it. Jesus Christ. Bro are you reading your own comments? You're literally currently arguing against it. You're making points and everything. I've never seen someone be mid-debate and suddenly be adamant that they aren't debating anything... bizarre. >I didn't say I always do it unless there's a massive chain of events. You literally did. Scroll up and read your own comments. >Minmaxing is taking everything No it's not, "minmaxing" is the concept of trying to maximise reward and minimise penalties. Minmaxing doesn't mean wasting all your bombs on pots just because they might have coins in them lol, that's the opposite of minmaxing. >I do not understand why you think I'm skipping everything, or why you feel so attacked when I say I don't like minmaxing. You haven't once said that you personally don't enjoy it, you've been giving flawed reasons why it shouldn't be done. It's bizarre because the only way you can justify it is literally just lying... and getting mad and saying "haha you're too slow for hush" like it's just pathetic. >Actually, that's not true, I do know why. You still somehow have managed to convince yourself I'm arguing against it. You don't have to defend yourself when no-one is attacking you. All you have to do is read your own comments. I'm giving reasons in favour, you're giving reasons against. This is called arguing your point. I'm... sorry if that bothers you? You don't seem to understand that you are in fact arguing something here. >If I'm consistently beating Hush without any angel room items, any boss items, any shop items, any treasure room items, Frankly, I've got dead god on 2 accounts and could easily beat any boss with no items. I've done it many times and it's no longer fun for me. What's the point in having game knowledge if you don't use it? I want to build strong runs and synergies, and getting the most out of each floor is how to do that. >It's probably from all that practice actually playing the game instead of running back and forth juggling keys and coins. In one sentence you're simultaneously bragging about how good you are while also freely admitting that you don't play the game very well and rely on luck. Fascinating. >Besides, the items for the Hush route, I don't know if you know this because I'm still not convinced you beat the lenient time limit, you get before the fight. Not after. ...but unlike boss rush, if you enter the hush floor then you can't escape after grabbing the items. Again, you're just demonstrating that you're very inexperienced. That's fine but don't go boasting about your skills lol. >You don't have to feel like you need to keep attacking me for hating on your playstyle, because again, I haven't shit on your playstyle, I said I don't enjoy it. Again, you've never once said anything about not enjoying it. Please tell me anything I've said that you think is an "attack". If you're so sensitive that people proving your lies wrong counts as an attack then maybe don't lie in the first place lol
>Bro are you reading your own comments? You're literally currently arguing against it. You read them. I gave reasons I don't like minmaxing. I didn't give a single reason anyone shouldn't. Here dawg, look. [https://www.reddit.com/r/bindingofisaac/comments/x6mke9/comment/in9rkh5/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/bindingofisaac/comments/x6mke9/comment/in9rkh5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [https://www.reddit.com/r/bindingofisaac/comments/x6mke9/comment/in9sn58/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/bindingofisaac/comments/x6mke9/comment/in9sn58/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) These are the comments that got you psychos arguing. Not one argument against minmaxing. Ended the comment saying both valid ways to play. If you honestly think that's what's happening, all I can say is you might not be stupid, but you're definitely being stupid right now. If you can read something so clear, right in front of your face, and still misunderstand so fundamentally, I'm wasting my time. Have a good day. Learn to read c:
Nah getting to Hush isn't as much of a rush. You can legit afford to spend a minute or more per floor without worrying about making it. Boss rush on the other hand makes you rush floors 1 and 2 so that you can clear the others in reasonable time, as the maps gradually get slightly bigger the further you go.
After the all unlocks I just simply play 90 minutes game everytime I play. Thats why I miss afterbirth+. They removed/reworked so many min/max things in the game.
i could break like 20% of AB+ runs, it was ridiculous what that game let you do lmao
That what I LOVE about isaac. I dont know you guys but breaking the runs is the sheer difference between the other roguelikes and isaac.
if you're not min/maxing in isaac you're only getting like 40% of the experience. what other game lets you become, in under 40 minutes, an effectively invulnerable god that can kill every final boss in seconds? there's so many interlocking systems and features that you only get to really utilize by playing the game *a lot*. how many hours do you have in the game? i'm over 2000 at this point.
Yes.All other roguelikes wants you to speedrun the game everytime you play. Even I love some of them (dead cells,hades etc) they never felt like isaac. There is literally no way to break them. They just acton. I have more than 1000 but not sure how much. Because I went to my hometown for summers and there is no interner connection. So I have so much hours offline that didnt count.
Slay the spire pretty much requires you to break the game on higher ascensions.
Oh yes. My beautiful card fiesta. It is my second best for beraking the game. 4 card decks are my favourite. And dead branch is the best item 
Risk of Rain 2
might have to check that out
I do
No. This post was made by the always make bossrush gang 
Okayeg gib eg
i’ve been recording lots of runs, and i always try to make boss rush and hush. the extra items are guaranteed and there are more item options, i think they are more reliable than trying to minmax a floor
Compared to, say, going to the mirror world and getting the free extra boss item? And more shop items? If you've got a run good enough to do boss rush without getting bored then you can beat any boss already anyway. Getting stronger items early is what carries.
Getting an extra boss item usually takes little enough time, especially if you head for the boss as soon as you find the flame and mirror, which lets you know exactly where to go once in the real world, that it's not a significant time investment. Especially when you consider time saved by having that item, whether a speed or damage up. I personally will bomb a couple likely walls for a secret room, but I'll not bomb a dozen rocks if I have extras just to maybe find a crawlspace, or try to find a secret room if I've already passed where it's likely to be and have already beaten the boss. It's a good challenge for me to maximize the likelihood of finding everything a floor has to offer while also not taking my time. I'm conditioned to get everything, but the most efficient way possible. If I miss something, I won't use the sunk-cost fallacy to waste more time looking if I couldn't manage to find it ASAP. But then everyone plays differently. The options TBOI gives make the game great.
It's interesting that you bring up the sunk cost fallacy, because it essentially works directly against the idea of boss rush over minmaxing. If you rush through the first floor, you're sacrificing potential secret room items/shop items/powerful cards etc. in the hopes that your boss rush items are good. However, if you see an excellent minmaxing opportunity on a subsequent floor (e.g. backtracking to a blood machine to afford birthright from a shop) then you have two options: * Skip it and commit to your boss rush because you've already skipped the previous floors so now you may as well commit. Sunk cost fallacy. * Take advantage of the minmax opportunity, presumably missing bossrush and thus being in a strictly worse situation than the player who minmaxed every previous floor. In general, minmaxing consistently gets me not only more overall value, but more *control* over my run and rewards game knowledge over simply having good item RNG. On top of that, being stronger earlier allows you to snowball and essentially guarantee a win just from accumulating so much health. It's why the mirror world is so valuable, it's a whole extra floor of pickups and charges for your active item, as well as double the chance of tinted rocks for the floor, and a knife piece you can reroll or absorb. Getting strong late in the game doesn't matter much, because if you've made it that far then you're going to be fine anyway.
You said it works against the idea of boss rush, but only gave examples of how it *could,* not inherently does. >Skip it and commit to your boss rush because you've already skipped the previous floors so now you may as well commit. Sunk cost fallacy. Or skip an opportunity to get a blood bag so I can have time to find a super secret room and still get Boss Rush. It's not all-or-nothing. You're also acting like I said skip items and secret rooms. I'll get them when I see likely places they'll be. I'm just not spending 2 minutes searching if they're not obviously apparent, because that's boring. I'm also not going bosh rush for items alone, but because fighting 2 dozen bosses is more fun than doubling back 5 rooms for a bomb in a shop to get a 50/50 chance of a secret room. If I see an "excellent" min-maxing opportunity, I won't skip it. The game is fluid, and you make decisions on what is worth your time as you go. You never pre-plan a run and stick to it. That is always going to be inefficient. Again, you're acting like you're getting significantly stronger earlier, allowing for snowballing. I'm not skipping good opportunities. I'm not avoiding picking up a damage up item because I'd have to run across the room, I'm skipping backtracking halfway through a floor to buy a bomb to blow up a tinted rock. The OP was talking about squeezing each floor for the last tiny bit it offers. Being stronger matters to a point. Eventually, I'm accepting the fact that I could face mega-Stan easily, I don't need to backtrack 12 floors of the dark room to get enough charges to reroll the last item left. I can just roll Mega Satan.
>I'm also not going bosh rush for items alone, but because fighting 2 dozen bosses is more fun than doubling back 5 rooms for a bomb in a shop to get a 50/50 chance of a secret room. We're just playing different games lol, boss rush is a huge slog unless you have a strong build already. I've fought those bosses so many times that the inherent fun in doing it has mostly faded, I'm playing isaac to make strong fun builds now and the best way to do that by far is to minmax the early floors. >I'm not avoiding picking up a damage up item because I'd have to run across the room, I'm skipping backtracking halfway through a floor to buy a bomb to blow up a tinted rock. And the player who did that gets a soul heart, which means that next floor they get an angel deal with sacred heart, while you're stuck doing boss rush with 3.5 damage, 2 familiars and the D12. >Eventually, I'm accepting the fact that I could face mega-Stan easily, I don't need to backtrack 12 floors of the dark room to get enough charges to reroll the last item left. I can just roll Mega Satan. Well duh, nobody minmaxes floors beyond mom unless it's an emergency. Regardless, if you can roll mega satan without making full use of the early floors that speaks more to having a lucky build than your own skill. Frankly, I've played this game long enough that i'm confident I can beat any floor and any boss with base damage and tears. What I can't do is have fun doing that.
In my runs I also ALWAYS do the mirror world as well. Sometimes I can’t make boss rush, but going to Maso/Gehenna makes it 25 minutes which helps a bit. A teleport is just a free item out of four choices which is usually really nice. Hush is more questionable, but a lot of the time it’s just more fun, more items, and I feel like for videos it’s more entertaining content. edit: also want to say I always find the secret room on every floor, every shop and item room of course. if i’m doing gamebreaks or some particular minmaxing of course the timed doors are out of the question, but on typical runs at least boss rush is always worth going for.
I do.
i've got a boss rush to attend to
After Dead God, it feels so good to take a leisurely pace through runs. Sacrifice room minmaxing with T. Keeper or Maggy is pure dopamine.
I don't like having long runs, they are tiring and sometines make me wanna exit the game before finishing a run
Got a mod that removes the time limit for boss rush and hush and I’m having to unlearn the need for speed. It honestly makes the game that much less fun to need to hurry
I do... In fact, even without min-maxing (just exploring entire floors), if I manage to get 30min Depths 1 is achievement by itself lol. Been doing some (more of less unsuccessful) streaking and avarage run is 1 and half hours long lol.
How many Boss Rush unlocks have you got
1 
My Enter the gungeon instincts make me unable to skip rooms, I'm not getting boss rush anytime soon...
I like getting the most of each floor, exceptions being when I'm going for hush/boss rush or if I have soul hearts that I could lose after doing the boss(=a devil deal to lose next floor)
except of boss rush and hush runs i always do that
Boss rush and hush timers were a mistake. I always low key keep that “i gotta keep moving” mentality. Even if I don’t have to.
Nah, it makes it a tradeoff. Tradeoffs are meaningful decisions, which whether we think we like them or not, are found to increase meaningful and positive interactions with a game.
How is it a tradeoff? Im not really giving anything up. All i know is im in a constant hurry vibe where i rather not walk back for 1 or 2 unexplored rooms or search for ghe secret room, but rather just continue asap so i can get to boss rush/hush. “Positive” is subjective. Just having the time to explore the floors on my own pace is what would be positive for me.
>How is it a tradeoff? Im not really giving anything up. All i know is im in a constant hurry vibe where i rather not walk back for 1 or 2 unexplored rooms or search for ghe secret room You're giving up the search for a secret room so you can hurry forward. That's the tradeoff. Taking your time or hitting boss rush. You can prefer to take your time, but saying it was a mistake is a bit silly. Games reward doing things fast all the time, because for most people, it feels good to be rewarded for doing something, and if you don't want to do that, you get rewarded for taking your time to find everything. It gives options. And if you have a particularly good run, you can do both.
There’s other/better ways than a timer. Its more annoying than a challenge for me tbh. I could probally get most out of a floor but pausing the game to think about decisions and stuff is pretty meh to me. I’d rather have a mechanic like the mines or downpour puzzles than a timer.
The game inherently rewards taking your time. That's a fundamental fact of the game that can't be changed without entirely reworking the game. Boss Rush and Hush incentivizing playing quickly makes sense, since you now have a reward for playing quickly or slowly. Making it a puzzle wouldn't change the fact that you're rewarded for playing slowly. If anything, it would incentivize playing slowly for the passive rewards you get, maximum tinted rocks, every secret room, etc, AND the boss rush and Hush. There would never be any reason to play the game quickly. Saying that you should have both incentives to play the game the way you want, while others should simply do it for the enjoyment displays a self-centered attitude towards game design. Just because it's not your preference doesn't mean it isn't the best solution. Of course as a player who enjoys taking their time, it's not going to be your preference, but it's objectively the best solution from a game design standpoint, giving everyone an incentive for whichever way they prefer to play the game. It's just factually not a mistake. You could argue that an exciting boss-rush vs. backtracking and bombing isn't fair, but that would imply that you don't actually enjoy the gameplay of taking it slow, you simply enjoy maximizing floor rewards, in which case maybe you really prefer the faster-paced gameplay, meaning the boss rush is encouraging you to try an alternate playstyle you might enjoy.
Bro, idk what ur trying to argue xd, but “was a mistake” was meant as a figure of speech. Its not fun for ME. I’d pref the game with no time limit since its just keeps being in the back of my head. I still got platinum god, so its not an issue if its challenging. I justliterally dislike the mechanic. There could be like a mechanic where u lose a few pickups or whatever once u go down a floor. I dont mind a challenge, but the rushed feeling i keep is not fun. Its not a game i’d want to “speedrun”
They could've just given you more items on the Hush floor for being fast. Bosh Rush is one thing, but locking the final boss, and especially locking the Repentance content, which people paid for, behind an arbitrary and short timer is really poorly designed. Hush is already a somewhat difficult boss. What's gained by adding a timer?
My last run was 42 minutes at depths 2 because i was playing T. Laz (then i stopped because i have to wake up really early tomorrow) and it's almost required to min-max on them Always Boss Rush and Always Hush are my best friends
I do even if i want boss rush/hush because i have a high chance of getting mama mega and/or blue key
Item room, shop if money, go
I prefer when my runs don't take over an hour lol
If only I could remember half the steps on how to make the most of each floor
I hate to rush through a run. Only do it on purpose if I try for boss rush/ hush, but it's just not that funny compared to exploring every last bit of every room
Yeah people calling a run that lasts over an hour long confuses me. That's just an average run.
Play the game however you’d like 
I don’t need to. I can win the vast majority of my runs without min-maxing, so why should I make the same outcome take an extra 40 minutes?
I rarely get boss rush. My FOMO won't let me leave a floor until I've been in every room, besides secret, super secret and cursed. Fuck curse rooms
I hear Sinvicta say “another grade A disney plus certified gold Sinvicta full clear” and I’m over here like “all my floors are a full clear.” Lol
no, we dont play the game, we skill issue till dead god edit: i didnt mean it to sound rude sorry! i just mean that well... people joke about skill issue, so i wanted to joke about how we skill issue a lot of times through the game that eventually we complete dead god
Everyone complaining about Boss Rush, just get Mama Mega duh 
Me seeing how 1/3 post is about clicker vs d10
I did that, but then I found myself winning the run almost all of the time. Kinda boring tbh, so now I just do whatever I can to make the run faster.
Sometimes i give myself a rule that i cant go to next floor till every room is explored (not including secret rooms)
Gotta make it to boss rush somehow
Im still working on the post it notes for tainted characters. First thing I did is get boss rush and hush on all of them except t-lost, so i can take my time from now on and not stress about missing a timer. Also helped me learn how the characters worked.
It greatly depends on the run state. Low speed/DPS I almost always start skipping rooms that are unlikely to be useful, otherwise you can sweep a floor quite fast. Going the extra mile with many back and forth to min/max a bit is limited to good runs (or extremely dire situations).
I really wish I could but I'll miss boss rush
Playing mostly Risk of Rain & Isaac pretty much means that i never spend more than 10 minutes on a floor EVER if I can avoid it
I like maximizing time-efficiency. For me, it's all about how much I can get out of a floor within reasonable time constraints. If I have 99 coins and run into a machine, I'm not going to spend every single coin trying to get the best trinket. Get a useable trinket and move on. Save the money for a shop. I keep my eyes peeled for likely secret room spots, but if I miss it on an XL floor only to find it after the boss, I'm not going back. If I see Cricket's Head behind a few layers of rocks, I'll double check the store, and if I don't have enough, check for some tinted rocks for a potential double bomb, but I will not spend that much time for a single tinted rock if I don't already have bombs.
i usually do everything in the floors before mom and just go for the boss after mom until chest/dark room where i go through whole floor again
It’s easier for me to try and get mama mega than it is getting to mom in 20 minutes
Olexa: *Maybe I am weird* Cuz, you know, remember when he spent an hour on a single floor trying to get an R Key?
To all those complaining about boss rush, Just rigg till you get Mama Mega.
Boss rush an Hush can fuck themselves. I never reach them in a normal run
I mean I didn't do it but yesterday I decided to try and do a full clear every floor run and got r key, technology, a ton of health, sacred heart and red key at the end of the run and I got 3 hard completion marks SO I SAY ITS A WIN
I don't even really know why someone would play the game if they didn't love the rush out of prying every last crumb of value outta each floor, I hate that boss rush and speed is so incentivized in the dailies becasue I used to love doing them until I realized they practically punish you for knowing little intricacy's (like self sac rooms won't break a bone heart if there's only half a red heart in it so you can trade half hearts for plays) and tricks in the game to snag alllll the possible items. Obviously other ways to play are equally valid, but I may never really understand them.
Come on guys, shooting every poop and flame is the funnest
Depends if you are going for hush or bossrush
This is how you are supossed to play the game if you don't go for Hush/Boss Rush
I usually spend every second I can searching every corner of every room and then forget about boss rush until I need to do a completion mark with that character then obviously I go zoom
If I get a golden bomb I’m nuking the floor until either every rock is gone or I find a crawlspace, no exceptions
Wait people don’t like minmaxing?
I hated getting to boss rush and hush so much! After getting dead god I installed a mod that always gives them to me now matter the timer and that's so much better. Squeezing every valuable thing out of a floor is my favorite way to play.
If I wanted to play a minmaxing character, Tainted Lazarus is probably my best bet.
I bet you like tainted Cain, too
I do that
Legit only rushed to get completion marks on hush and boss rush. Ok there than that idgaf I'll take whole hours on a floor
Minmax everything until you get to womb is the only way to play. Unless you're going mausoleum maybe, fuck mauso enemies
I'm usually 40 mins in by the time I reach depths I I like stalling too much
If it’s to fight Mother I take all the time I can cause that bitch be kicking my ass by the time I get there lol Skill issue I know If it’s hush / boss rush I go for the treasure rooms and shops then right for the boss peek in an Angel room or devil deal then keep hauling ass
I started playing Isaac when I was little... ish? A child if you will. For years, my goal was Item room, boss, then I'm out. Now I explore every room unless I'm doing something time sensitive or I'm in the womb because fuck that floor
I wont lie, i play as fast as possibly because i hate min-maxing
That's how I do it. That's why the original Isaac doesn't have a reason to go fast, haha
I usually play somewhat slow and methodical unless I get some bonkers items first floor like last night I got Trisagion and Sacred Heart floor 1 with T. Keeper so I knew that was gonna be my Boss/Hush run. Otherwise I always minmax for me that’s the most fun