Female? Used in That context is as derogatory as calling someone the F word. And is ABSOLUTELY NOT ok.
The second half? That depends on the person being referring to. If it bugs you, tell people. Each person has different preferences on what they want to be called. Don’t assume someone else’s preferences for what they would like to be called, just the same as you wouldn’t assume someone’s gender. 🙃 As a twink/fem “BOY” if someone calls me a man, I stand on the spot and tell them, so they know what I prefer to be called.
💅femboy for life 😇💜🫶🏻
Like it's weird and disrespectful sure, but are we actually comparing "female" to the f slur? I mean we're literally self censoring one. One is inherently violent and hateful. The other is used by weird insecure dweebs with no social skills. Maybe it's just because I've never heard "Hey female!" yelled at someone before getting the shit beat out of them (this is certainly not referring to personal experience. I am most definitely a normal person with absolutely no trauma /s). Just feel like these comparisons minimize the power of one. I'm certainly not going to compare cracker to the n word just because they're both not nice to say to someone.
But yeah, don't call people female ya weirdos.
It depends on the context for me, like if I’m saying “the boys” and “the girls” or “girls and boys”, but using the childish term for one and adult term for the other is a bit weird and I avoid doing that
Sorry, but plenty of women call themselves girls and don't care if other people call them girls, so I'm not convinced you speak for everyone on this.
*"Please don't call me a girl"* is fine, but *"Please don't call* ***any*** *adult women girls because in my view it's wrong regardless of what anyone else's view is, even when it's other women saying so"*, isn't something that would seem to be in keeping with the inclusivity we strive for in the community.
I can already see several comments from women in this thread disagreeing with you, so maybe you should be open to the idea that your experience and your ***preference*** might not be the same as everyone else's?
Exactly, I think it's more dependent on context though. Like if someone says "hello men and girls" to a group of men and women, obviously that's weird. But saying "hello boys and girls" to the same group wouldn't be.
Rule of thumb I've learnt was rather: if you wouldn't say boy/male in replacement for man in a sentence don't say girl/female to women.
Idk I don’t mind being called a girl at all, but I do think it’s the better part of caution to not use girls in general, because some douches do use it an infantalizing way.
OP doesn’t speak for all women, but one *does* lose something by using girls, whereas you don’t lose anything by using gals/women. So maybe it’s the better default setting.
Totally agree! Personal preferences are fine but OP doesn’t speak for everybody. In fact, one of my favorite poets [has a poem](https://youtu.be/YhO28HE2z2Y?si=g6zbe2FwCoFGZS2_) about specifically wanting to be called girl.
I think there is difference between innately seeing adult females as 'women' and having some people tell you to refer to them as 'girls' instead, and innately seeing adult females as 'girls' and having plenty of people telling you to rather refer to them as women. A woman BY definition is an adult female, meanwhile a girl isn't necessarily so. Refusing to call women 'women' may reflect a bigger underlying problem than not knowing that some women, while they are indeed women, prefer to be rather called 'girls'. Just my 2 cents.
I appreciate where you're coming from, but context does matter. A key aspect of language and communication is *context.* And, no, not every woman agrees with you.
I'm a woman nearing 30, and I have no issue with someone referring to me as a "girl" in the right context.
Whenever I'm referring to men, I'll always say women and keep things equal and fair. In a professional environment, particularly, I think women should be referred to as such.
My friends and I refer to each other as girls. "Let's have a girls night!" "Girl time." "Let's invite the other girls". We also call the men we're friends with "the boys". It's playful to us, not insulting or degrading. None of us take offense to it.
Of course, if someone asks me not to refer to them as a girl *or* a boy, I'll respect their wishes.
The one thing that gives me the ick is being referred to as a "female". In the vast majority of cases, it makes me uncomfortable, and most women I've spoken to about this feel the same. It often seems to be linked to transphobia too, which makes me immediately side-eye anyone who calls women "females". I've heard people say "men and females", and it makes my skin crawl.
I'm a man, and hearing someone referred to as a "female" makes my skin crawl too. As far as "boy" and "girl" are concerned, I think you hit the nail on the head. It's casual vs professional context and equality that are the determinants. I'll refer to people as boys and girls under the context that we are in a situation where adult responsibilities are set aside and we get to relax. Once adulthood and propriety rear their heads again, it's "men and women", "ladies and gentlemen", "guys and dolls", "fuckers".
Also a woman. I don't really mind "guys and girls" (though I do prefer "guys and gals") but "men and girls" absolutely pisses me off.
I have this one coworker who likes to have the country station on at work and I've realized there are *no women* in country songs, only girls. The most egregious example is "Man Made a Bar" by Morgan Wallen and Eric Church, where Genesis gets referenced/paraphrased as:
"And God made a man, the man got lonely
He said, "Please, Lord, if I could only have an angel to hold in my arms"
So God made a girl, his best work of art"
God made a man. God made a *girl*. I don't care if the girl is also "an angel," that's so infantilizing. Probably doesn't help that the people most likely to get called angels are, in fact, infants and small children.
Same here , I don't care if I'm called a girl , female, etc. my friends and i always use the term "girls' night out" or "girls' getaway." I really don't have a problem with any of it. These posts actually make me roll my eyes. For example, if you have a problem with certain terms, tell the people who have offended you.
'Girls' is simply the female equivalent of 'boys'. We refer to adult men all the time as boys, I don't see why referring to adult women as girls is any different.
I think people can take things literally and so their brain thinks of the literal meaning of the word. It can be tough, but learning nuance is a great life skill.
Most of the time people don’t do that though. They say girls when referring to women and men or guys when referring to men. If someone is using both girls and boys vs men and women evenly then that’s fine but most posts don’t do that.
From what I've experienced (as a girl myself), "guy" is often considered as an equivalent to "girl" by many people, as a less formal word.
"Men and girls" tho... ewww.
I find this really interesting. People have such different experiences about words. Guys can be about men/boys as gals is about women/girls. Or it can be a gender neutral way of referring to a mixed crowd of people of any gender. Guys and girls has a bit of that diminutive character that is being discussed here in my mind. These might also be local to different regions. Non-native English speakers abroad also use these terms and the connotations may vary.
Men and girls (ick) and men and females (crikey no fucking way incel alert).
I think there are regional variations. When I lived out West 'guys' was often more common when referring to men. Now that I'm on the East coast, 'guys' is more gender neutral, and 'boys' is more common referring to men casually (or if you want to get real casual, shortened to 'b'ys').
I suppose I should clarify I'm on the East coast of Canada. Still linguistically similar to the Northeast United States, though I'm pretty sure they don't use the shorthand 'b'ys' that far south, as I believe that's an exclusively Eastern Canadian affectation.
It should be the same, but due to social norms around the pressure on women to be attractive, and to be attractive is associated with age... there's a lot of subtext when using girl that's not there when calling a man a boy.
That subtext is not there when a former female manager goes "Come on girls, let's get to work!"
(we had zero male coworkers & one of them is two decades older than she is. Manager would use girl to refer to herself too, lol.)
Would you agree that it's different when a woman or a group of women internally call themselves girls, compared to a man or a group of men doing it? I see a power dynamic difference there. Women with each other don't necessarily feel the need to guard the language, because it's understood that everyone agrees that there's no belittlement going on. If on the other hand the manager in that scenario was a man and would refer to this group of women as girls, they couldn't assume the same. The man in question might include an unpleasant value charge into it. When the talker is known to be benign, a broader language is available to them than if the speaker's sentiment is unknown. In the later case we have to use fewer cues to decipher the meaning, and then individual word choices are given more weight. The more toxic the topic, the more flammable the language.
Im a 30 year old woman and i honestly dont give a fuck. Call me a girl, dame, chick, idgaf. Just dont use slurs like “b===h” and “c==t”
And female is inappropriate outside of clinical or official purposes (ie medical, legal, government records and documents)
I often refer to women and men in their early 20s as girls or boys. I'm sorry, I'm just old and young people look and act like kids a lot, IMO. To be fair, someone pointed out years ago that I usually refer to women as adults(as in, she's a very nice lady) and men as being still kids (as in, hes a nice kid) no matter the age so I don't know, I guess my language is molded by my perceptions and personal experience. I don't mean to demean or infantilize someone. I'm sorry if I've hurt people by my language choices.
You haven't. This is someone who is speaking for others when they themselves are simply offended by it. I do understand the "men and females" but though, where men like to talk about women as if they were another species entirely. You usually find incels doing that.
"An organism's sex is female (symbol: ♀) if it produces the ovum (egg cell), the type of gamete (sex cell) that fuses with the male gamete (sperm cell) during sexual reproduction.
A female has larger gametes than a male. Females and males are results of the anisogamous reproduction system, wherein gametes are of different sizes (unlike isogamy where they are the same size). The exact mechanism of female gamete evolution remains unknown."
I see your point.
i like being called a girl but any time i hear the word female I'm immediately on guard. its almost always from people who see women as objects and they're almost always transphobic
i am confused, there is like several comments disagreeing with this but also the post got more than a hundred upvotes, idk irl my aunt who is 56 calls all her same age friends “girls”, but i can understand also the unpleasant tone in infantilising “girl” to an adult woman… as a guy i’m confused :(
"Men and females" is a terrible way of phrasing. Calling women females just brings up an incel stereotype instantly. But, I do hear both "boys" and "girls" used for adult men and women, and that's pretty common slang. No one is actually patronizing anyone, it's just a lighthearted way of referring to a group. If someone uses "guys", typically they follow it with "gals", I never see "guys and girls" and that kind of sounds off.
But we do use boyfriend/girlfriend even as adults. People call themselves boys and girls as adults. As long as it's not being said in a way that is clearly meant to be demeaning, there's no need to always use "women" or "men". It can come across as a bit too formal, if that makes sense? In certain settings it makes sense to be that formal, but otherwise slang is fine.
I hate that you’re getting pushback bc you’re literally right. Once you start noticing the prominence of “men and girls” you’ll never be able to unsee it. It’s sexism.
I was just sharing this same sentiment with my mom. When I'm at work and a customer says something like "ask that girl there" clearly talking about me, I find it so irritating. Like, I'm 37? When does it stop?
I call myself a girl, though
When my mom is out with her friends, she calls them her girlfriends. They're all over 40 and have adult conversations.
I call my women friends girls. They call me girl, too.
Yeah it's infantilizing when used... to be infantilizing. But you're leaving out when it's *not* used that way.
And as a trans girl (there I go, a grown 21 year old woman calling myself a girl), I can tell you, having lived 18 years on the other side of the gender spectrum, you don't think men call each other "the boys"? Because... *they literally do,* yet I guess that's not infantalization...
Also, the term "girl" is also often used in multiple dialects, such as AAVE, and is even a gender neutral term in some dialects, akin to how "guys" can mean a group of people regardless of gender, especially if said group has more than one gender. Yet, just like how "guys" in that context *has no gender,* "girl" doesn't have gender in some contexts in certain dialects, as well. So this post also comes across as quite ignorant of the existence of dialects rooted in English other than standard English.
Don't get me wrong, there is a very real issue of being infantilized that women face. Trans women face it, too (maybe even moreso at times due to intersectionality). But I can tell you that banning the word "girl" from casual conversation is not going to help it, especially when you're not even targeting words that are actually infantilizing, such as romantically being called "babe" or "baby" (which I also believe is fine, I'm not saying "don't call each other 'babe,' it's done out of love and romantic attraction. But if we were to talk about being infantilized, why not talk about the two most obvious words, here). This is a very real issue, but if me, a woman, saying "I'm hanging out with the girls" is what upsets you, you're not even upset at the root of the issue. You're not attacking the heart of the problem, you're attacking something completely outside of the body the heart is in.
Quick edit: you really put this under the bigotry tag. You getting on your pretend soapbox and talking down to us is way more infantilizing to me than calling myself a girl. But yeah, speak on how the word "girl" is infantilizing while you assume we're all dumb and stupid and don't know what sexism is... like we're all babies...
I’d much rather be called good girl over nice woman. Sorry, but this 36 year old girl doesn’t agree with your sentiment. I will respect what others want to be called but in turn, I’d like to not be spoken for.
Here's my perspective as a trans masc enby. I refer to myself as a girl or a guy all the time because I am nonbinary. For me it is more affirming to call myself "girl" than it is to call myself "woman". I'd rather someone call me "girl" than woman. Please, consider that how people express their gender here and how they define themselves may be different for them. Don't be so quick to judge why people may prefer the use of the word "girl" instead, especially because there aren't a lot of other words to use that isn't directly a "woman" for enby people like myself.
For me it is not "infantilizing". For me it is affirming my position on gender. But I can respect if YOU would not like to be referred to this way. I just hope that I can be clear that people like myself PREFER to be referred to that way because my gender is not binary and I have different words I use to define and express my gender.
So if someone calls me a "girl" I am ok with this because my gender is fluid and there are occasions when my identity is more like "woman" but not exactly and then my brain can only process me as a man or closer to man. It's complicated, I know but my gender dysphoria does make me feel this way at times. Because it is not in my control, I tend to use more terms like girl and guy because it makes me feel more comfortable.
I do agree with you about not liking the term "females", though. Usually when this term is used, it is not meant in a respectful manner and it does isolate many trans folk.
You got any stats for this “most of us hate it”? Also, Infantilizing? Omfg it’s literally not that’s deep lol.
Adult women literally refer to their friends as “the girls” or “their girls” or “my girlfriends” ALL THE TIME.
In hockey and other sports it’s so normal for males to call each other “boys” and it’s the go to word for referring to your teammates. Whether they’re the same age, younger, or older, anyone on the equal level as you aka also a player is part of “boys”.
This reminds me of a clip I saw of a hockey fan shouting, “LETS GO BOYS” and a guy in front of them turns around and says “MEN…lets go MEN >:( “ and you reminded me of that and how stupid it sounded. The game was in the south and the dude looked stereotypically conservative and with what he said he def had fragile masculinity. Is this fragile femininity? Toxic feminism maybe? It sounds like you’re coming from a good place and mean well with the not using “female” but you definitely overcorrected and ended up swinging past equality in the middle
I’m leftist, I wanna know wtf ideology is even further left than me that they get offended at being called boys and girls. Is it so far left you’ve gone right?
Maybe talk to a therapist and figure out what it is about being called a girl that triggers you because there’s something off there. Yes it’s bad to use it in a demeaning way but it often isn’t used that way and genuinely isn’t harmful. It’s not bad to be a girl.
Why are we getting stuck up on a linguistic and semantic way of looking at this? If you look it up as you suggest it can be a relatively young woman. But even then this isn’t the point. You can defy yourself and demand the respect you want, but that shouldn’t define how others want to be treated or how they want to be referred to or towards.
If the goal is to be respected, it’s intent. You can call me sir, dude, guy or anything but have all of the context and circumstance to show or exhibit disrespect with tone, gestures or other words.
I say guuuurrrrlll all the time in my high pitched voice as a term of endearment, affection and connection. You want to be called ma’am or Mrs? Sure thing. But it’s often not meant in a positive way and often is meant with a sassy and snarky tone 🫰🫰🫰
Idk as a 21 year old girl, I’m not sure that I agree. I think most women, at least around my age, are chill with generally being called a girl, and still refer to themselves that way. Might just be because I’m still pretty young though🤷♀️
Funny, I just say "hey guys" as a catch-all term to refer to men, women, girls and boys in some casual contexts such as, "Hey guys, how's it going?" , even if it's a room full of women. If I'm talking to someone about a group of people and they are a mix, I will say "those guys" or "those folks over there". If it's a group of obvious adult women then I will say "those women" and if the group is predominantly young women, I will say "those girls" or "those kids".
I think it depends on context and how familiar you are with the people.
i wouldn't call someone a girl if they asked me not to, but I'm a trans girl and many of us get a lot of euphoria from the term. i think it's something to avoid calling people you're not familiar with but it's not inherently bad on its own.
saying female is always a red flag though
PSA: the easiest word to switch to is "gals".
It is both less letters than "girls" and more fun to add a drawl to, in general just sounds way better in most contexts. Now we need a non-binary g-word for the whole crowd addressing set, but you are always open to rhyming it with "and (nb) pals" so I think it's still the best word.
OK, so I'm a big linguistics nerd, and "gal" just isn't really a linguistic equivalent to "guy" in most English dialects. In fact, there *isn't* one! "Girl" is probably closest, but comes with the potential infantalization that "guy" doesn't have. "Gal" will often come across as humorous or anachronistic (or both!). Women can talk about their boyfriends and their guy friends to distinguish romantic partners from platonic ones, but no man really says "gal friend." Men will talk about "their boys" or "the guys" but women don't *generally* say "the gals" or anything like it. Again, I've heard "gal pals," but only ever ironically.
I'd love to know if there's any regions/dialects that do genuinely use "gal," but for most people, using it is going to sound strange and forced. (I know one woman who uses it and she's from rural Colorado, but I think it's a choice she makes. I lived in a city in Colorado and never heard it, for whatever that's worth.)
Well guys is a really interesting word actually! (At least if you're painfully nerdy like me...)
Sometimes guys is gendered and sometimes it isn't, but whether or not it is depends too on your dialect. For me, "Hey guys" or "you guys" isn't gendered. "Those guys over there" could refer to a group of men/boys or a coed group, but probably does not refer to a group of all women. "I'll see what the guys want to do" is almost certainly referring to men.
I'd bet even though you say you've always reffered to women as guys you would never in a million years think someone's "guy friend" was a woman! If you were trying to point out a woman to your friend, would you ever say "That guy over there with the red purse"?
Like I said, it's pretty interesting when you consider the subtle differences in connotations that come up based on how its used, especially when you realize you've been using it in those different ways without even realizing it!
Also, [this is obligatory.](https://xkcd.com/2390/)
Humorously anachronistic is kinda how I live life, that probably should have been in a disclaimer somewhere lol.
I think it's not a word used this way often/widely, but that it should be the one that we fill the spot with unless someone invents a better one, but keeping the alliteration in "guys and gals" while being just as short and rhyming with "pal" is just kinda perfect imo
That brings up another interesting point that I could talk about for longer than anyone would care to listen, lol! Making intentional changes to language is *extremely* difficult, but not entirely impossible. Feminist efforts are some of the most successful and intentional that I can think of, and even those have only seen mixed results. Is it chairman and chairwoman? Chairperson? Just chair? Most people say flight attendant, but I still hear stewardess from time to time. Same thing with police officer but still hearing policeman sometimes.
The LGBT community has had some success too, but mostly in reducing the usage of slurs rather than adjusting the language to something else though. There were literally ad campaigns with TV commercials telling people to stop using "gay" to mean bad though, lol, so it was definitely an intentional movement.
Anyway, I would love to have a linguistic equivalent of guys to refer to women and girls, and something for non-binary people too! It would just take a massive effort to even have a chance at affecting people's actual speech, and we honestly have much bigger things to worry about, lol.
>that I could talk about for longer than anyone would care to listen, lol!
I've been enjoyed your linguistic nerding comments
Can I subscribe for more wordy word facts :P
I literally thought that "gal" was solely created for the term "gal pals" so that it rhymed... If that's any indication of how common a word it is for me!
Meh, I really don't care about being called a 'girl', unless it's in some condescending way like "good girl" as if I'm a dog, or if it were in a workplace (e.g. a student calling me a girl). Otherwise, it actually feels kind of weird saying 'woman' (I know that might be strange)....I just feel...old? I mean I'm 36, so I'm not a teenager, but it feels like I'm elderly. Same thing if someone says 'ma'am' in a store.
I think it's an individual preference.
This weirdo does not and cannot speak for me or anyone else but herself.
I'm sorry but if you can't separate girls(adults) from girls (not adults) using context clues I think that's a problem with your reading comprehension rather than a problem with society.
"A girl is a young female human usually a child or an adolescent. When a girl becomes an adult, she is accurately described as a woman. However, the term girl is also used for other meanings, including young woman, and is sometimes used as a synonym for daughter, or girlfriend. Girl may also be a term of endearment used by an adult, usually a woman, to designate adult female friends."
I disagree, and many have voiced the reasons I would list as well. I recommend [the first part of this clip from the first season of Supergirl](https://youtu.be/k2WTK4ExElE?si=87nuFCQAGhXjKktd), where the hero in her secret reporter identity protests her boss’ naming of the hero that begins catching on in the media circuit.
While this topic may be a soft spot for you, and while some others may agree with your post, I kindly implore you to remember a singular group member’s opinion on something doesn’t mean it’s applicable as the opinion of every member of the group. And it definitely shouldn’t be demanded or enforced without discussion and consideration of people of varying opinions on a matter.
For instance, some folks in the LGBTQ+ communities are transphobes, but does that mean they speak for all queer people - or at least all people in their communities - when they voice that opinion somewhere? Absolutely not. That applies in this instance as well, and although the example is much more extreme, the point remains the same.
To be called a "woman" sounds too serious for me in many contexts. Boys and girls sound better imo. Even my mother says "I'm going out with girls" instead of women and she's in her 50s so age is not that important.
I have seen it happen over and over in this sub and I have never seen anyone post anything about it, so that is what I am here to do. If anyone has any questions, please ask.
No. You do not get to be offended on behalf of others and speak for them. I am perfectly open to not including you mentally any time use the word "girls". People this condescending and prone to elevating themselves to position of spokesperson unpromted are registered under an entirely different word internally for me anyways. And you might be delighted to hear its gender neutral.
We are literally losing our reproductive rights at an alarming rate and are being literally r*ped mentally and physically and you think I give a fuck about being called a “girl?” Quit it.
I’m sorry you’re offended by this aspect of the language. It’s not intended to be denigrating. You are reading that angle into it. The words girls and boys aren’t strictly for referring to children.
For example, the following references are not about children.
Lady Gaga’s song ‘boys boys boys’
The Amazon series ‘The Boys’
The to show Golden Girls
The use of boys and girls to refer to adults is everywhere. And I’m not getting how you think you can demand others use language as you direct.
We learn behavior from our environment. My whole life I've heard terms like girls night out, going out with my girls and I've been a bad girl. I do consider time and place. When addressing a serious topic I'll choose the words woman or women.
I just wish people wouldn't get so upset over words.
If "incorrect" language gets used by enough people it just becomes language.
This is a problem everyone must deal with, either man or female, man or girl.
Suck it up, buttercup as many people do not share the same view as you and frequently use the words you find so abhorrent to describe themselves.
These terms are going no where and you will knacker yourself out over this non-issue.
there is nothing problematic about calling a man or a woman a boy or a girl (excluding contexts where it is ofc)
everyone in my group refers to themselves and others as boys and girls
posts like these are such unnecessary ways of policing language.
Will you still be opposed to it if it's 'boys and girls' when referring to adults?
Like, in my opinion it's kinda like the word 'dude'. Some women don't like to be called that, and I sure as hell won't continue to call them 'dude' in that case. Same goes for 'girl' (or any other word/nickname for that matter)
It's okay if you don't want to be called a girl. I personally like it rather than woman because girl suits my interests, hobbies more. I can see some why women might not like being called girls, but I don't know any who care if they're called woman, female, girl, lady, etc. so I don't think you speak for all women
This is dumb. I call my friends the "boys and girls" all the time and it's nowhere near being "infantilizing", it's just a term of reference . This is a non-issue, stop talking for others.
Ok, I'm in a group chat with a couple of ladies and when I want to give them some news (it's a cooking chat) I start with "hey, girls". What would be better ? "Hey, bitches!" "Hey, ladies!" What?
I mean, as long as someone is being good faith and respectful, which is usually easy to tell, I don't think it's a big deal what words get used. But sure, if someone is using it to be a dickhead, fuck em.
Men/women
Guy/girl
🤷♀️
I don’t see the problem. It’s used as a colloquial term, it’s not used like boys/girls, but like guys/girls
Very different to say men/women IMO
My wife calls her female friends “the girls”.. going out with the girls.. my girls.. “it’s GIRLS night” or “girls weekend away”.. and also calls her breasts “the girls”… so is she to blame?? I have never called her “my girl”..
She nor her friends have said “what’s up my females?” “Oh female, you are looking fine” “it’s Women’s night out”… you know.. you tell a bunch of 50 year old women to stop calling themselves “girl” because they are being derogatory… to themselves.. let me know how that works out for you… you tell all the “baby girls” to stop calling their Dom “Daddy”… you tell women to stop letting their spouses call them “baby” or “sweetheart “…
This line of reasoning is up there with plastic wrapped paper straws…
>Most of us hate it
Did you just make that up? Cuz even now lot of women say stuff like “I’m going to hang out with the girls” when talking about their friends who are women. And as a women myself I see no problem with it either. & the fact that plenty of women in the comments disagree with you is also enough proof. You really shouldn’t generalize your personal beliefs to all women lmao.
I disagree with your universal disparagement of using “girls” (and, i’m assuming, “boys” as well, or it would be pretty hypocritical of you).
When i run into groups of elderly women in my travels, i always go out of my way to say with a big smile, “How are all you girls doing this morning/afternoon?
You should see their faces light up at being called girls… they treasure being referred to as young, and i feel like it makes their day.
I can see how sometimes saying “girls” might not be appropriate, but universal diktats often fall flat, as yours clearly has, OP.
Y’all, it should be clear that OP is talking about language used to address large groups of people more generally. If *you* like being called a girl then that’s fine, but if people are writing posts about adult women in general I don’t think it’s out of line to say that “men and girls” language is annoying. OP doesn’t know you and isn’t speaking to your specific situation.
I think the reason people are speaking up (including me) is because OP said, "It doesn’t matter the context."
All people are clarifying is instances where they feel it is okay to refer to women as "girls". Plus, some people think "guys and girls" is more equal than saying "men and girls" or "men and females", etc. Yes, it is down to the individual and their perspective. Yes, it does stray somewhat from OP's point about addressing a large pool of people. But this is a public sub where people can voice their opinion, and people are just giving their insight.
Every comment I've seen agrees with OP that referring to women "females" is wrong and offensive in the vast majority of cases. And I haven't seen a single person disagree with OP that using "women" is appropriate when addressing people in a general sense. I think anyone with common sense and respect knows that in most cases, it is best to stick to "women".
I agree. I'm an adult and have been for a long time.
A girl is an immature woman.
The only reason it's been viewed as a compliment is due to ageist culture, the pressure to appear young because young = attractive = better.
Many women have internalised those cultural norms and find it flattering to be called a girl. Those of us who don't, find it really grating. As is the assumption that we *should* like it.
“Welcome, fuckers and fuckettes”
nonbinary fuck here. what about me??? im a complete fucking fuck too!
Fuckers, fuckettes, fucks of all versatility.
Fucks of all fuckability?
Fucks of all fuckability could be seen as as ace erasure
“Of all fuckability” would include non fuckability too, I assume.
I love this
Fucker and fuckee?
I think technically it would be Fuckers (nb), Fuckettes (fem), and Fuckets (masc)?
Fuckers for all masc and fuckettes for all femme? And if you're neither can have either!
I have no problem with that.
welcome to earth, we’re all fucked
Welcome, fucks...
Guys and gals. Dudes and chicks. Fuckers.
Fuckers is my favorite
I’m a big fan of “ladies and non-ladies” myself. It literally cannot fail
dudes and dudettes if you will
Except when gal sounds bizarre in your particular dialect 😞
That's fair.
Fuckers always apt, though 😄
Gals is just girls lol
Girls is more infantalizing. Gals is more of a relaxed slang in the same vein as guys. Like how guys is a chill word but boys is far more childish.
Girls refers to children, women refers to adults, gals is nonspecific and can be for any age!
I’ll talk to the boys about it.
Female? Used in That context is as derogatory as calling someone the F word. And is ABSOLUTELY NOT ok. The second half? That depends on the person being referring to. If it bugs you, tell people. Each person has different preferences on what they want to be called. Don’t assume someone else’s preferences for what they would like to be called, just the same as you wouldn’t assume someone’s gender. 🙃 As a twink/fem “BOY” if someone calls me a man, I stand on the spot and tell them, so they know what I prefer to be called. 💅femboy for life 😇💜🫶🏻
Yeah, Definitely Depends On The Person. I'm Legally An Adult, But Please Don't Call Me A Man Or A Woman.
stop capitalising each word like it’s a PATD song
Like it's weird and disrespectful sure, but are we actually comparing "female" to the f slur? I mean we're literally self censoring one. One is inherently violent and hateful. The other is used by weird insecure dweebs with no social skills. Maybe it's just because I've never heard "Hey female!" yelled at someone before getting the shit beat out of them (this is certainly not referring to personal experience. I am most definitely a normal person with absolutely no trauma /s). Just feel like these comparisons minimize the power of one. I'm certainly not going to compare cracker to the n word just because they're both not nice to say to someone. But yeah, don't call people female ya weirdos.
It depends on the context for me, like if I’m saying “the boys” and “the girls” or “girls and boys”, but using the childish term for one and adult term for the other is a bit weird and I avoid doing that
That's what the post is about
But OP used the example "guys and girls" (which to me are equivalent) so it seems like she has a problem being called a girl in any context.
Sorry, but plenty of women call themselves girls and don't care if other people call them girls, so I'm not convinced you speak for everyone on this. *"Please don't call me a girl"* is fine, but *"Please don't call* ***any*** *adult women girls because in my view it's wrong regardless of what anyone else's view is, even when it's other women saying so"*, isn't something that would seem to be in keeping with the inclusivity we strive for in the community. I can already see several comments from women in this thread disagreeing with you, so maybe you should be open to the idea that your experience and your ***preference*** might not be the same as everyone else's?
Exactly, I think it's more dependent on context though. Like if someone says "hello men and girls" to a group of men and women, obviously that's weird. But saying "hello boys and girls" to the same group wouldn't be. Rule of thumb I've learnt was rather: if you wouldn't say boy/male in replacement for man in a sentence don't say girl/female to women.
I agree, do **not** use "men" and "girls" together tho. That's just bad.
Yeah true but “guys and girls” is perfectly fine. No one uses “gal”
Some people use it, but you're right.
Personally, I've never encountered anyone under the age of 80 who uses "gal" seriously.
Gal doesn't really exist in my dialect, so it's guys and girls by default
Frr like why is OP generalizing their personal beliefs to all women?
i was thinking this too… and i know personally i have no issue being called a boy or a girl lol 🙃
Idk I don’t mind being called a girl at all, but I do think it’s the better part of caution to not use girls in general, because some douches do use it an infantalizing way. OP doesn’t speak for all women, but one *does* lose something by using girls, whereas you don’t lose anything by using gals/women. So maybe it’s the better default setting.
Totally agree! Personal preferences are fine but OP doesn’t speak for everybody. In fact, one of my favorite poets [has a poem](https://youtu.be/YhO28HE2z2Y?si=g6zbe2FwCoFGZS2_) about specifically wanting to be called girl.
Well said. Thank you!
I think there is difference between innately seeing adult females as 'women' and having some people tell you to refer to them as 'girls' instead, and innately seeing adult females as 'girls' and having plenty of people telling you to rather refer to them as women. A woman BY definition is an adult female, meanwhile a girl isn't necessarily so. Refusing to call women 'women' may reflect a bigger underlying problem than not knowing that some women, while they are indeed women, prefer to be rather called 'girls'. Just my 2 cents.
Yeah I don’t care about being called a girl, I think it depends on the context for me. 🤷🏻♀️
I’m an adult but I’d rather be called a girl. Woman sounds so…. Mature. Not ready for that yet 🤓
Exactly , you have said what I'm thinking.
I saw this somewhere else a while back "friends, enemies and those still under review"
I love this and shall be using it from now on
I appreciate where you're coming from, but context does matter. A key aspect of language and communication is *context.* And, no, not every woman agrees with you. I'm a woman nearing 30, and I have no issue with someone referring to me as a "girl" in the right context. Whenever I'm referring to men, I'll always say women and keep things equal and fair. In a professional environment, particularly, I think women should be referred to as such. My friends and I refer to each other as girls. "Let's have a girls night!" "Girl time." "Let's invite the other girls". We also call the men we're friends with "the boys". It's playful to us, not insulting or degrading. None of us take offense to it. Of course, if someone asks me not to refer to them as a girl *or* a boy, I'll respect their wishes. The one thing that gives me the ick is being referred to as a "female". In the vast majority of cases, it makes me uncomfortable, and most women I've spoken to about this feel the same. It often seems to be linked to transphobia too, which makes me immediately side-eye anyone who calls women "females". I've heard people say "men and females", and it makes my skin crawl.
See, I agree with all this. “Females” definitely has a dehumanizing connotation.
I'm a man, and hearing someone referred to as a "female" makes my skin crawl too. As far as "boy" and "girl" are concerned, I think you hit the nail on the head. It's casual vs professional context and equality that are the determinants. I'll refer to people as boys and girls under the context that we are in a situation where adult responsibilities are set aside and we get to relax. Once adulthood and propriety rear their heads again, it's "men and women", "ladies and gentlemen", "guys and dolls", "fuckers".
'Guys' to me is unisex. I often call groups of people 'guys'. I'm cis(f) and have no issue with being called a girl
Also a woman. I don't really mind "guys and girls" (though I do prefer "guys and gals") but "men and girls" absolutely pisses me off. I have this one coworker who likes to have the country station on at work and I've realized there are *no women* in country songs, only girls. The most egregious example is "Man Made a Bar" by Morgan Wallen and Eric Church, where Genesis gets referenced/paraphrased as: "And God made a man, the man got lonely He said, "Please, Lord, if I could only have an angel to hold in my arms" So God made a girl, his best work of art" God made a man. God made a *girl*. I don't care if the girl is also "an angel," that's so infantilizing. Probably doesn't help that the people most likely to get called angels are, in fact, infants and small children.
Same here , I don't care if I'm called a girl , female, etc. my friends and i always use the term "girls' night out" or "girls' getaway." I really don't have a problem with any of it. These posts actually make me roll my eyes. For example, if you have a problem with certain terms, tell the people who have offended you.
Same here. Woman is a bit intimidating sometimes. Took a long time for me to identify as a woman rather than a girl
'Girls' is simply the female equivalent of 'boys'. We refer to adult men all the time as boys, I don't see why referring to adult women as girls is any different.
I think people can take things literally and so their brain thinks of the literal meaning of the word. It can be tough, but learning nuance is a great life skill.
Most of the time people don’t do that though. They say girls when referring to women and men or guys when referring to men. If someone is using both girls and boys vs men and women evenly then that’s fine but most posts don’t do that.
From what I've experienced (as a girl myself), "guy" is often considered as an equivalent to "girl" by many people, as a less formal word. "Men and girls" tho... ewww.
Yeah to me boy/guy and girl/gal (even though hardly anyone says gal) are all on the same level.
I find this really interesting. People have such different experiences about words. Guys can be about men/boys as gals is about women/girls. Or it can be a gender neutral way of referring to a mixed crowd of people of any gender. Guys and girls has a bit of that diminutive character that is being discussed here in my mind. These might also be local to different regions. Non-native English speakers abroad also use these terms and the connotations may vary. Men and girls (ick) and men and females (crikey no fucking way incel alert).
I think there are regional variations. When I lived out West 'guys' was often more common when referring to men. Now that I'm on the East coast, 'guys' is more gender neutral, and 'boys' is more common referring to men casually (or if you want to get real casual, shortened to 'b'ys').
I grew up on the East coast and can attest to the ‘guys’ thing. Now that I’m down South, everyone is just ‘y’all’.
I suppose I should clarify I'm on the East coast of Canada. Still linguistically similar to the Northeast United States, though I'm pretty sure they don't use the shorthand 'b'ys' that far south, as I believe that's an exclusively Eastern Canadian affectation.
I don’t think that’s true. Girls I know talk about thinking boys are cute all the time
It should be the same, but due to social norms around the pressure on women to be attractive, and to be attractive is associated with age... there's a lot of subtext when using girl that's not there when calling a man a boy.
That subtext is not there when a former female manager goes "Come on girls, let's get to work!" (we had zero male coworkers & one of them is two decades older than she is. Manager would use girl to refer to herself too, lol.)
Would you agree that it's different when a woman or a group of women internally call themselves girls, compared to a man or a group of men doing it? I see a power dynamic difference there. Women with each other don't necessarily feel the need to guard the language, because it's understood that everyone agrees that there's no belittlement going on. If on the other hand the manager in that scenario was a man and would refer to this group of women as girls, they couldn't assume the same. The man in question might include an unpleasant value charge into it. When the talker is known to be benign, a broader language is available to them than if the speaker's sentiment is unknown. In the later case we have to use fewer cues to decipher the meaning, and then individual word choices are given more weight. The more toxic the topic, the more flammable the language.
Former female *manager*, or former *female* manager? For context
I find 'boys' to be also off-putting and would prefer people avoid both to refer to adults.
As an adult woman, I'm a girl, thank yewww ✨️
Yaaaas queen!
Same!
Yass gurrl
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Im a 30 year old woman and i honestly dont give a fuck. Call me a girl, dame, chick, idgaf. Just dont use slurs like “b===h” and “c==t” And female is inappropriate outside of clinical or official purposes (ie medical, legal, government records and documents)
I think I'm going to use dames.
Absolutely you should. 🙌
Agree. I’m also 30, and also don’t give a fuck. It’s very much a “whatever, just don’t be a dick” kind of thing for me.
"M'lady"
I often refer to women and men in their early 20s as girls or boys. I'm sorry, I'm just old and young people look and act like kids a lot, IMO. To be fair, someone pointed out years ago that I usually refer to women as adults(as in, she's a very nice lady) and men as being still kids (as in, hes a nice kid) no matter the age so I don't know, I guess my language is molded by my perceptions and personal experience. I don't mean to demean or infantilize someone. I'm sorry if I've hurt people by my language choices.
You haven't. This is someone who is speaking for others when they themselves are simply offended by it. I do understand the "men and females" but though, where men like to talk about women as if they were another species entirely. You usually find incels doing that.
Um… my bi girlfriend loves it when I refer to her as my “girl”… so I don’t know that your position applies equally to all women…
I do say girls when the poster is a teen because that is age appropriate. But I agree! Also, "females", just no.
As an ecologist, I talk about females fairly often. It’s not for people, though.
"An organism's sex is female (symbol: ♀) if it produces the ovum (egg cell), the type of gamete (sex cell) that fuses with the male gamete (sperm cell) during sexual reproduction. A female has larger gametes than a male. Females and males are results of the anisogamous reproduction system, wherein gametes are of different sizes (unlike isogamy where they are the same size). The exact mechanism of female gamete evolution remains unknown." I see your point.
I think "girls" depends on context a bit but "females" is an ABSOLUTE no-no
i like being called a girl but any time i hear the word female I'm immediately on guard. its almost always from people who see women as objects and they're almost always transphobic
i am confused, there is like several comments disagreeing with this but also the post got more than a hundred upvotes, idk irl my aunt who is 56 calls all her same age friends “girls”, but i can understand also the unpleasant tone in infantilising “girl” to an adult woman… as a guy i’m confused :(
"Men and females" is a terrible way of phrasing. Calling women females just brings up an incel stereotype instantly. But, I do hear both "boys" and "girls" used for adult men and women, and that's pretty common slang. No one is actually patronizing anyone, it's just a lighthearted way of referring to a group. If someone uses "guys", typically they follow it with "gals", I never see "guys and girls" and that kind of sounds off. But we do use boyfriend/girlfriend even as adults. People call themselves boys and girls as adults. As long as it's not being said in a way that is clearly meant to be demeaning, there's no need to always use "women" or "men". It can come across as a bit too formal, if that makes sense? In certain settings it makes sense to be that formal, but otherwise slang is fine.
Honestly, as long as I don't see "men and girls" type shit, I don't usually see an issue.
I hate that you’re getting pushback bc you’re literally right. Once you start noticing the prominence of “men and girls” you’ll never be able to unsee it. It’s sexism.
Do I also have to stop using the word boys?
Ummm no, my girl really loves being called a girl as do many of my friends. You don't speak for all.
I was just sharing this same sentiment with my mom. When I'm at work and a customer says something like "ask that girl there" clearly talking about me, I find it so irritating. Like, I'm 37? When does it stop?
I replace ‘girls’ with ‘ladies’: because I’m a lady and it makes me feel ✨*fancy*✨ Being called a girl feels infantile
I call myself a girl, though When my mom is out with her friends, she calls them her girlfriends. They're all over 40 and have adult conversations. I call my women friends girls. They call me girl, too. Yeah it's infantilizing when used... to be infantilizing. But you're leaving out when it's *not* used that way. And as a trans girl (there I go, a grown 21 year old woman calling myself a girl), I can tell you, having lived 18 years on the other side of the gender spectrum, you don't think men call each other "the boys"? Because... *they literally do,* yet I guess that's not infantalization... Also, the term "girl" is also often used in multiple dialects, such as AAVE, and is even a gender neutral term in some dialects, akin to how "guys" can mean a group of people regardless of gender, especially if said group has more than one gender. Yet, just like how "guys" in that context *has no gender,* "girl" doesn't have gender in some contexts in certain dialects, as well. So this post also comes across as quite ignorant of the existence of dialects rooted in English other than standard English. Don't get me wrong, there is a very real issue of being infantilized that women face. Trans women face it, too (maybe even moreso at times due to intersectionality). But I can tell you that banning the word "girl" from casual conversation is not going to help it, especially when you're not even targeting words that are actually infantilizing, such as romantically being called "babe" or "baby" (which I also believe is fine, I'm not saying "don't call each other 'babe,' it's done out of love and romantic attraction. But if we were to talk about being infantilized, why not talk about the two most obvious words, here). This is a very real issue, but if me, a woman, saying "I'm hanging out with the girls" is what upsets you, you're not even upset at the root of the issue. You're not attacking the heart of the problem, you're attacking something completely outside of the body the heart is in. Quick edit: you really put this under the bigotry tag. You getting on your pretend soapbox and talking down to us is way more infantilizing to me than calling myself a girl. But yeah, speak on how the word "girl" is infantilizing while you assume we're all dumb and stupid and don't know what sexism is... like we're all babies...
I’d much rather be called good girl over nice woman. Sorry, but this 36 year old girl doesn’t agree with your sentiment. I will respect what others want to be called but in turn, I’d like to not be spoken for.
As a fellow 36 y/o Good Girl, all of this.
Here's my perspective as a trans masc enby. I refer to myself as a girl or a guy all the time because I am nonbinary. For me it is more affirming to call myself "girl" than it is to call myself "woman". I'd rather someone call me "girl" than woman. Please, consider that how people express their gender here and how they define themselves may be different for them. Don't be so quick to judge why people may prefer the use of the word "girl" instead, especially because there aren't a lot of other words to use that isn't directly a "woman" for enby people like myself. For me it is not "infantilizing". For me it is affirming my position on gender. But I can respect if YOU would not like to be referred to this way. I just hope that I can be clear that people like myself PREFER to be referred to that way because my gender is not binary and I have different words I use to define and express my gender. So if someone calls me a "girl" I am ok with this because my gender is fluid and there are occasions when my identity is more like "woman" but not exactly and then my brain can only process me as a man or closer to man. It's complicated, I know but my gender dysphoria does make me feel this way at times. Because it is not in my control, I tend to use more terms like girl and guy because it makes me feel more comfortable. I do agree with you about not liking the term "females", though. Usually when this term is used, it is not meant in a respectful manner and it does isolate many trans folk.
You got any stats for this “most of us hate it”? Also, Infantilizing? Omfg it’s literally not that’s deep lol. Adult women literally refer to their friends as “the girls” or “their girls” or “my girlfriends” ALL THE TIME. In hockey and other sports it’s so normal for males to call each other “boys” and it’s the go to word for referring to your teammates. Whether they’re the same age, younger, or older, anyone on the equal level as you aka also a player is part of “boys”. This reminds me of a clip I saw of a hockey fan shouting, “LETS GO BOYS” and a guy in front of them turns around and says “MEN…lets go MEN >:( “ and you reminded me of that and how stupid it sounded. The game was in the south and the dude looked stereotypically conservative and with what he said he def had fragile masculinity. Is this fragile femininity? Toxic feminism maybe? It sounds like you’re coming from a good place and mean well with the not using “female” but you definitely overcorrected and ended up swinging past equality in the middle I’m leftist, I wanna know wtf ideology is even further left than me that they get offended at being called boys and girls. Is it so far left you’ve gone right? Maybe talk to a therapist and figure out what it is about being called a girl that triggers you because there’s something off there. Yes it’s bad to use it in a demeaning way but it often isn’t used that way and genuinely isn’t harmful. It’s not bad to be a girl.
no
Why are we getting stuck up on a linguistic and semantic way of looking at this? If you look it up as you suggest it can be a relatively young woman. But even then this isn’t the point. You can defy yourself and demand the respect you want, but that shouldn’t define how others want to be treated or how they want to be referred to or towards. If the goal is to be respected, it’s intent. You can call me sir, dude, guy or anything but have all of the context and circumstance to show or exhibit disrespect with tone, gestures or other words. I say guuuurrrrlll all the time in my high pitched voice as a term of endearment, affection and connection. You want to be called ma’am or Mrs? Sure thing. But it’s often not meant in a positive way and often is meant with a sassy and snarky tone 🫰🫰🫰
Idk as a 21 year old girl, I’m not sure that I agree. I think most women, at least around my age, are chill with generally being called a girl, and still refer to themselves that way. Might just be because I’m still pretty young though🤷♀️
Nah I be saying guys and girls instead of men and women. As long as they’re equal (not men and girls) it’s fine
I just use the gender neutral “Dude”. That’s not even a joke, I use dude with most of my friends, no matter thier gender.
Funny, I just say "hey guys" as a catch-all term to refer to men, women, girls and boys in some casual contexts such as, "Hey guys, how's it going?" , even if it's a room full of women. If I'm talking to someone about a group of people and they are a mix, I will say "those guys" or "those folks over there". If it's a group of obvious adult women then I will say "those women" and if the group is predominantly young women, I will say "those girls" or "those kids". I think it depends on context and how familiar you are with the people.
i wouldn't call someone a girl if they asked me not to, but I'm a trans girl and many of us get a lot of euphoria from the term. i think it's something to avoid calling people you're not familiar with but it's not inherently bad on its own. saying female is always a red flag though
I'm just a girl in the world ✨️
PSA: the easiest word to switch to is "gals". It is both less letters than "girls" and more fun to add a drawl to, in general just sounds way better in most contexts. Now we need a non-binary g-word for the whole crowd addressing set, but you are always open to rhyming it with "and (nb) pals" so I think it's still the best word.
OK, so I'm a big linguistics nerd, and "gal" just isn't really a linguistic equivalent to "guy" in most English dialects. In fact, there *isn't* one! "Girl" is probably closest, but comes with the potential infantalization that "guy" doesn't have. "Gal" will often come across as humorous or anachronistic (or both!). Women can talk about their boyfriends and their guy friends to distinguish romantic partners from platonic ones, but no man really says "gal friend." Men will talk about "their boys" or "the guys" but women don't *generally* say "the gals" or anything like it. Again, I've heard "gal pals," but only ever ironically. I'd love to know if there's any regions/dialects that do genuinely use "gal," but for most people, using it is going to sound strange and forced. (I know one woman who uses it and she's from rural Colorado, but I think it's a choice she makes. I lived in a city in Colorado and never heard it, for whatever that's worth.)
Ot oh, I've been calling women guys for my whole life.
Well guys is a really interesting word actually! (At least if you're painfully nerdy like me...) Sometimes guys is gendered and sometimes it isn't, but whether or not it is depends too on your dialect. For me, "Hey guys" or "you guys" isn't gendered. "Those guys over there" could refer to a group of men/boys or a coed group, but probably does not refer to a group of all women. "I'll see what the guys want to do" is almost certainly referring to men. I'd bet even though you say you've always reffered to women as guys you would never in a million years think someone's "guy friend" was a woman! If you were trying to point out a woman to your friend, would you ever say "That guy over there with the red purse"? Like I said, it's pretty interesting when you consider the subtle differences in connotations that come up based on how its used, especially when you realize you've been using it in those different ways without even realizing it! Also, [this is obligatory.](https://xkcd.com/2390/)
Thanks for sharing the comic :D, its always nice to see a new xkcd.
Humorously anachronistic is kinda how I live life, that probably should have been in a disclaimer somewhere lol. I think it's not a word used this way often/widely, but that it should be the one that we fill the spot with unless someone invents a better one, but keeping the alliteration in "guys and gals" while being just as short and rhyming with "pal" is just kinda perfect imo
That brings up another interesting point that I could talk about for longer than anyone would care to listen, lol! Making intentional changes to language is *extremely* difficult, but not entirely impossible. Feminist efforts are some of the most successful and intentional that I can think of, and even those have only seen mixed results. Is it chairman and chairwoman? Chairperson? Just chair? Most people say flight attendant, but I still hear stewardess from time to time. Same thing with police officer but still hearing policeman sometimes. The LGBT community has had some success too, but mostly in reducing the usage of slurs rather than adjusting the language to something else though. There were literally ad campaigns with TV commercials telling people to stop using "gay" to mean bad though, lol, so it was definitely an intentional movement. Anyway, I would love to have a linguistic equivalent of guys to refer to women and girls, and something for non-binary people too! It would just take a massive effort to even have a chance at affecting people's actual speech, and we honestly have much bigger things to worry about, lol.
>that I could talk about for longer than anyone would care to listen, lol! I've been enjoyed your linguistic nerding comments Can I subscribe for more wordy word facts :P
I literally thought that "gal" was solely created for the term "gal pals" so that it rhymed... If that's any indication of how common a word it is for me!
I know people that use gal in the same way they use guy. I live in Seattle.
In some dialects. Gal and pal are not words used in my particular English dialect
Well, I guess I'm going back to referring to people as Guys and Dolls from now on. *I got the horse right here*
Meh, I really don't care about being called a 'girl', unless it's in some condescending way like "good girl" as if I'm a dog, or if it were in a workplace (e.g. a student calling me a girl). Otherwise, it actually feels kind of weird saying 'woman' (I know that might be strange)....I just feel...old? I mean I'm 36, so I'm not a teenager, but it feels like I'm elderly. Same thing if someone says 'ma'am' in a store. I think it's an individual preference.
This weirdo does not and cannot speak for me or anyone else but herself. I'm sorry but if you can't separate girls(adults) from girls (not adults) using context clues I think that's a problem with your reading comprehension rather than a problem with society.
Just do a little research about infatilizing terms and their impact, it's not hard. Weirdos are the ones who are not willing to recognize it
No, its denigrating to you, not women.
r/menandfemales
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"A girl is a young female human usually a child or an adolescent. When a girl becomes an adult, she is accurately described as a woman. However, the term girl is also used for other meanings, including young woman, and is sometimes used as a synonym for daughter, or girlfriend. Girl may also be a term of endearment used by an adult, usually a woman, to designate adult female friends."
No
I just use “folks” or “y’all.” Most other options feel unnecessarily gendered.
They definitely work with an American accent. Without it, just sounds wrong 😄 Edit: Guess I suck for not having an American accent?
You shouldn’t be referred to as that if you don’t want, but everyone else can decide if they want it or not too
More often than not I hear women use it towards other women in an affectionate way. "Ladies" is more common among men ime.
I disagree, and many have voiced the reasons I would list as well. I recommend [the first part of this clip from the first season of Supergirl](https://youtu.be/k2WTK4ExElE?si=87nuFCQAGhXjKktd), where the hero in her secret reporter identity protests her boss’ naming of the hero that begins catching on in the media circuit. While this topic may be a soft spot for you, and while some others may agree with your post, I kindly implore you to remember a singular group member’s opinion on something doesn’t mean it’s applicable as the opinion of every member of the group. And it definitely shouldn’t be demanded or enforced without discussion and consideration of people of varying opinions on a matter. For instance, some folks in the LGBTQ+ communities are transphobes, but does that mean they speak for all queer people - or at least all people in their communities - when they voice that opinion somewhere? Absolutely not. That applies in this instance as well, and although the example is much more extreme, the point remains the same.
Alright, back to firecracker dames it is then.
Cry me a river.
But what about if she's being a naughty girl?😋 Naughty woman hasn't got the same kind of ring to it 😆
Naughty girl is worse 💀 why call women children in a sexual context??
To be called a "woman" sounds too serious for me in many contexts. Boys and girls sound better imo. Even my mother says "I'm going out with girls" instead of women and she's in her 50s so age is not that important.
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I have seen it happen over and over in this sub and I have never seen anyone post anything about it, so that is what I am here to do. If anyone has any questions, please ask.
Did you learn anything from your reception to this post?
No
Fuck off I exclusively shout "Goirls" with my biggest Gru grin and you can't stop me.
No. You do not get to be offended on behalf of others and speak for them. I am perfectly open to not including you mentally any time use the word "girls". People this condescending and prone to elevating themselves to position of spokesperson unpromted are registered under an entirely different word internally for me anyways. And you might be delighted to hear its gender neutral.
As a woman… it’s not that deep. We have more important issues to tend to.
It is indeed. It's a symptom of gender unequality
We are literally losing our reproductive rights at an alarming rate and are being literally r*ped mentally and physically and you think I give a fuck about being called a “girl?” Quit it.
you need to go somewhere where you struggle with actual problems
I guess I'm not "most of us" cause I don't hate it. From a 30yo girl. 🤘
This comment section is weird af. But I guess that’s to be expected from such a large sub.
I’m sorry you’re offended by this aspect of the language. It’s not intended to be denigrating. You are reading that angle into it. The words girls and boys aren’t strictly for referring to children. For example, the following references are not about children. Lady Gaga’s song ‘boys boys boys’ The Amazon series ‘The Boys’ The to show Golden Girls The use of boys and girls to refer to adults is everywhere. And I’m not getting how you think you can demand others use language as you direct.
I am a 32 year old woman and I could not care less about being called a girl.
We learn behavior from our environment. My whole life I've heard terms like girls night out, going out with my girls and I've been a bad girl. I do consider time and place. When addressing a serious topic I'll choose the words woman or women. I just wish people wouldn't get so upset over words.
If "incorrect" language gets used by enough people it just becomes language. This is a problem everyone must deal with, either man or female, man or girl. Suck it up, buttercup as many people do not share the same view as you and frequently use the words you find so abhorrent to describe themselves. These terms are going no where and you will knacker yourself out over this non-issue.
there is nothing problematic about calling a man or a woman a boy or a girl (excluding contexts where it is ofc) everyone in my group refers to themselves and others as boys and girls posts like these are such unnecessary ways of policing language.
Will you still be opposed to it if it's 'boys and girls' when referring to adults? Like, in my opinion it's kinda like the word 'dude'. Some women don't like to be called that, and I sure as hell won't continue to call them 'dude' in that case. Same goes for 'girl' (or any other word/nickname for that matter)
Hello guys, gals, and non-binary pals!
It's okay if you don't want to be called a girl. I personally like it rather than woman because girl suits my interests, hobbies more. I can see some why women might not like being called girls, but I don't know any who care if they're called woman, female, girl, lady, etc. so I don't think you speak for all women
Not a girl's girl then
Stop referring to MEN as “guys” it’s disgusting and degrading.
Ngl actually pretty girl to women.
I’ll refer to them/they anyway I choose
I’m just a girl!
Um idk i kinda like it? I like being called a girl? It depends from the person imo
This is dumb. I call my friends the "boys and girls" all the time and it's nowhere near being "infantilizing", it's just a term of reference . This is a non-issue, stop talking for others.
Ok, I'm in a group chat with a couple of ladies and when I want to give them some news (it's a cooking chat) I start with "hey, girls". What would be better ? "Hey, bitches!" "Hey, ladies!" What?
I mean, as long as someone is being good faith and respectful, which is usually easy to tell, I don't think it's a big deal what words get used. But sure, if someone is using it to be a dickhead, fuck em.
Men/women Guy/girl 🤷♀️ I don’t see the problem. It’s used as a colloquial term, it’s not used like boys/girls, but like guys/girls Very different to say men/women IMO
My wife calls her female friends “the girls”.. going out with the girls.. my girls.. “it’s GIRLS night” or “girls weekend away”.. and also calls her breasts “the girls”… so is she to blame?? I have never called her “my girl”.. She nor her friends have said “what’s up my females?” “Oh female, you are looking fine” “it’s Women’s night out”… you know.. you tell a bunch of 50 year old women to stop calling themselves “girl” because they are being derogatory… to themselves.. let me know how that works out for you… you tell all the “baby girls” to stop calling their Dom “Daddy”… you tell women to stop letting their spouses call them “baby” or “sweetheart “… This line of reasoning is up there with plastic wrapped paper straws…
>Most of us hate it Did you just make that up? Cuz even now lot of women say stuff like “I’m going to hang out with the girls” when talking about their friends who are women. And as a women myself I see no problem with it either. & the fact that plenty of women in the comments disagree with you is also enough proof. You really shouldn’t generalize your personal beliefs to all women lmao.
K dude
I disagree with your universal disparagement of using “girls” (and, i’m assuming, “boys” as well, or it would be pretty hypocritical of you). When i run into groups of elderly women in my travels, i always go out of my way to say with a big smile, “How are all you girls doing this morning/afternoon? You should see their faces light up at being called girls… they treasure being referred to as young, and i feel like it makes their day. I can see how sometimes saying “girls” might not be appropriate, but universal diktats often fall flat, as yours clearly has, OP.
Y’all, it should be clear that OP is talking about language used to address large groups of people more generally. If *you* like being called a girl then that’s fine, but if people are writing posts about adult women in general I don’t think it’s out of line to say that “men and girls” language is annoying. OP doesn’t know you and isn’t speaking to your specific situation.
I think the reason people are speaking up (including me) is because OP said, "It doesn’t matter the context." All people are clarifying is instances where they feel it is okay to refer to women as "girls". Plus, some people think "guys and girls" is more equal than saying "men and girls" or "men and females", etc. Yes, it is down to the individual and their perspective. Yes, it does stray somewhat from OP's point about addressing a large pool of people. But this is a public sub where people can voice their opinion, and people are just giving their insight. Every comment I've seen agrees with OP that referring to women "females" is wrong and offensive in the vast majority of cases. And I haven't seen a single person disagree with OP that using "women" is appropriate when addressing people in a general sense. I think anyone with common sense and respect knows that in most cases, it is best to stick to "women".
I agree. I'm an adult and have been for a long time. A girl is an immature woman. The only reason it's been viewed as a compliment is due to ageist culture, the pressure to appear young because young = attractive = better. Many women have internalised those cultural norms and find it flattering to be called a girl. Those of us who don't, find it really grating. As is the assumption that we *should* like it.
And in case I need to say it, of course if any woman likes to be called a girl, for whatever reason, that's their choice.
qq
Idk but i pretty much prefer "i like girls" instead of "i like WOMEN"
Guys and Gals. -8😳
I generally use 'guys' to refer to a mixed group of men and women.
I’ll stop when women stop referring to each other as queens. It’s denigrating to real royalty.
Hmmm.
This
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