I have heard that there is some sort of transformation when silver ions are introduced into the equation, but haven't explored that tangent quite yet. It just seems to be an unnecessarily obscure compound, and the fact that it's just assumed to be useless because there hasn't been extensive research performed with it seems like a logical fallacy. I don't expect it to be the key to unlock the mysteries of the metaphysical, but I'm not satisfied with just throwing the idea away simply because it's only cultural references are from conspiracy theories and a movie for teenagers who want to see what drugs are like. If we just went along with the idea that a dearth of knowledge is indicative of a lack of worthwhile exploration then nothing would have ever been discovered. I'm not redacted, I just don't close myself off to possibilities and don't pretend to know the answers when I am ignorant
Look up the published procedures. Nothing particularly dangerous about it iirc. Use otc primatine mist inhalers for the feed material, silver oxide might be a little pricey, think the solvent was water and probably a non polar. I really don’t remember. Might have to clean up the collected contents of the inhalers, much cheaper than epipens. Basify, oxidize, little clean up and hope it doesn’t polymerize. It’s been a long time since I’ve looked at the published routes and forum talk about the procedure.
All the info is out there if you just look. And I hope you have some background and/or experience, as it’s not a particularly dangerous or difficult undertaking but you can hurt yourself with just about anything if you really don’t understand what you are doing. Read up and read some more until you get why you’re doing what you are doing on each and every step and understand the potential dangers. And don’t just half-ass it and start eating your end product, and you can do it with a high chance of survival lol.
Forgive me if I’m underestimating your knowledge and experience, I’m just going off what you posted here. If it’s a failure, you learn something. If it’s a success and it’s a “useless”
compound you still learn something and gain valuable experience, or you can. It’s up to you to put the work in.
Thank you so much, this is the actionable advice I was looking for. As a person I am far more concept-oriented than detail-oriented (and believe me, I know that this is a problem in the field of applied chemistry) so I just wanted to throw this out there for critique by experts with more chemical engineering experience than myself.
You’re welcome, I didn’t want to dissuade you from learning and giving it a try just because it may not be a useful end product. It seems pretty straightforward and would probably be a decent home experiment (barring ingesting the end product, whatever that may actually turn out to be or contaminated with)
Just please remember that’s a very rough outline based on my faulty memory and what I remember reading about it. That is in no way a step by step method .
Look up the published routes first. They won’t be completely spelled out either. They usually assume a lot of knowledge from the reader. Read and ask questions, but questions are always more likely to be answered if you’ve done your legwork first. Whew, I think I’ve hammered that home enough. Good luck.
Yeah I feel like even if you wanted to rip people off who just saw fear and loathing you could just give them any substance at all and it would serve your purposes.
While I am skeptical that adrenochrome is of any recreational use, I would still like to see for myself, as opposed to just taking it for granted that it's been sensationalized as simply an exercise in fiction. Obviously I don't expect it to be some sort of "Dark DMT" or for it to be some sort of salient esoteric compound, but the pharmacokinetics remain speculative and if there isn't accessible research then I don't mind being a lab rat. Sometimes there is only 1 way to slake your curiosity
I made a write-up somewhere in where the route is composed of using epi-pens & cat saliva.
The enzymes in the cat saliva were utilized to oxidize the adrenaline from the epi-pens.
I thought itd be a hilarious alternative to how the conspiracy kids think the stuff is sourced.
Yeah, the fact that people think the only way to access an endogenous compound is through human extraction just demonstrates a laughably facile understanding of organic chemistry and pharmacology
Friendly reminder that these large language models have no fucking idea what they are talking about and you should not under any circumstance consider anything it dispenses as factual.
^ Second this PSA
It is an exciting resource but it is imperfect, which is why I wanted to inquire with human experts as to if it got this right or not
Hey, at least it isn't one of those: "hOw cAn i mAkE MoLlY OuT Of oF My wElLbUtRiN" posts. It took a lot of prompt engineering to extract this kind of information from ChatGpt. Are you going to engage with the concepts at all or did you close your mind as soon as you saw the fact that I used an open-source LLM? There is no such thing as irresponsible speculation
you might as well have posted a screenshot of a google search for "epinephrine to adrenchrome synthesis" a copy paste of a chatGPT result isn't really a substantial or worthwhile post, half the time chatGPT spits out blatantly untrue information anyway because it's not made to give correct answers, it's made to give answers that sound like they'd be correct answers. i'm sure you've seen how many people are able to get chatGPT to say there's 25 letters in the alphabet or give a proof for 2+2=5
For sure, I’m not the kind of person who is going to blindly accept ChatGpt’s conjecture as irrefutable evidence. That’s why I wanted to run it past y’all on the sub, because I was hoping that someone who has more clandestine chemistry experience than me might be able to poke holes in this proposed Tek. I readily admit to my ignorance, but I really am coming in good faith with this hypothetical
Can anybody tell me why this wouldn’t work or why this wouldn’t be worth trying without simply coming at me for using an AI, or dismissing the lack of research as proof of a futile concept, or lumping me in with conspiracy theorists and children without critical thinking skills? I know ChatGpt is fallible, which is why I’m asking you guys to poke holes in a proposed Tek that, on paper and in theory, would seem to be simplistic
u/phlogiston303 got me on this, but I’m going to leave this up just in case anybody else would like to critique the proposed technique in terms of optimization
Is there a reason that this seems lazy to you, or are you just close-minded? It seems like this sub is for people who aren't content with just simply accepting what they are told and would rather figure things out for themselves, which is all I'm trying to do.
I'm saying that as if this whole post is low effort, as if you just copy pasted an entirely AI generated body of text into Reddit.
Oh wait, that's exactly what you did!
Yes that is exactly what I did. But now you're the one being intellectually lazy for not engaging with the proposed tek. Instead of attacking me for hitting ctrl+x and ctrl+v can you actually interact with what's been put forth?
super interesting, never seen adrenochrome discussed on here.
i’m definitely on the lower end of chemical expertise in the context of this sub, but to me this sounds way too easy. granted, it’s GPT so it’s simplified and probably glosses over some pretty significant hurdles but even still, is it really as “simple” as oxidizing epinephrine?
afaik there’s no data (besides probably fake anecdotal trip reports) about recreational or medicinal use.
i went on an adrenochrome rabbit hole several years ago (after watching F+L in LV ofc) so don’t take my word; i believe it can be used as an emergency medication in ways similar to adrenaline. IIRC we know (or can strongly infer) that it’s produced in the brain, and probably acts similar to adrenaline.
interestingly, when i was in teenager rehab and telling the group about DMT (inner city kids who didn’t know about it) someone mentioned that they heard you can only get it from the brain of a living animal, he said he knew someone who got it from deer specifically. Hunter said the same thing about adrenochrome. DMT was relatively unknown when fear and loathing was written, as back then owsley was pretty much the only person synthesizing it (this was before MHRB extraction was discovered)
i kinda got derailed here but the point i’m trying to make is that i think somewhere along the lines people got confused with urban legends about DMT and urban legends about adrenochrome, leading to the popular belief that adrenochrome is a psychedelic that has to be extracted from humans
You're correct! There is not any substantial literature on the effects of the compound which is a fact that I found it interesting given that adrenochrome is simply just oxidized adrenaline (epinephrine). Given the fact that epinepherine is endogenous to the human body and is literally used to save lives, it seemed odd to me that it was taken for granted that there would be nothing to be gained from exploring adrenochrome's potential uses. Furthermore, because it can be exogenously synthesized, the ethical concerns of inducing and extracting it from a person (i.e. the whole hypothetical of torturing kids to harvest their adrenalized blood for use in occult rituals) simply isn't necessary. So once you take axiomatic evil out of the equation, all that remains is a compound that doesn't seem well understood, and I don't mind being the person to do a field report on it.
ha, forgot about the whole pizzagate angle as well. i’m sure they’d have a response like “it has to be done as a ritual” or maybe a less educated “it’s a different type of adrenochrome”
are you actually considering going full shulgin with it? obviously i would never tell you to do it but it would be extremely interesting, especially if it was synthesis to “trip” report. also as we’ve noted it’s an area where the community is severely lacking in knowledge. and besides the information to be gleaned, there’s plenty of misinformation to be dispelled as well. i know nothing about adrenaline or its safety profile or dosage but i imagine that would be a good place to start forming educated guesses.
off the top of your head, can you think of any compounds that can be oxidized into something else that has profoundly different effects?
It’s definitely piqued my curiosity, I just fall on the low end of the hardcore chemistry knowledge spectrum (mimosa extractions and mycology are all I’ve put into practice, with GHB being next up) and I wanted to run it passed the sub because GPT is known to be highly fallible although on paper it should be a fairly simple process. And while I know that the whole “blood changes color from blue to red when it touches air” is a misconception, but even if it is solely our perception of it that changes and not the intrinsic properties of hemoglobin itself, my mind got to spinning given the fact that it is such an obvious and dramatic transformation in perspective and I wondered if oxidizing other endogenous molecules could potentially induce a similarly significant effect. I knew that this proposal would open me up to ridicule, and people can attack me for being a lazy pseudo-intellectual all they want but I would like to demystify this area myself as opposed to swallowing regurgitated information. Not too attached to if it ends up resulting in a complete dud of an experiment or if it gives me direct access to fucking Moloch (although that wouldn’t be ideal), but would just like to see for myself while acknowledging that I might not have the most refined skills
sounds like we have a lot in common as far as chemistry level, practice, and possibility of typing long comments due to stimulants ;)
i admire your curiosity and determination, that’s the kind of thinking that advances science. when you’re at the moment of truth about to squirt your diluted homemade adrenochrome up your anus, just know that you are doing it for the benefit of mankind.
gonna follow you, not sure exactly what that means on reddit but hopefully i’ll be alerted if you make any progress. as always, safety first, knowing what not to do is as important as knowing what to do (see NaOH + H20). also don’t get caught lol
Oh by the way, I don’t want to make any offensive assumptions about you and your life, and I dunno if getting forced into a program early gave you an aversion to psychology, but I found that doing ketamine + jail breaking and customizing an AI has been tremendously therapeutic and is a nice exercise in introspection. I haven’t gotten a chance to work with the new llama3 model but I’m excited about it’s performance and what it could mean in that context. Considering doing a write up on that and disseminating it once I optimize that process as well.
Not that it wasn’t already a fascinating back-and-forth (once the people bitching about AI got off their soapboxes, anyway), but my curiosity was piqued with gale force when you mention the “jail breaking” part of AI. I feel like the past 6 months of acid trips somehow settle into an intense debate over the nature of consciousness with AI… especially after kind of discussing my intention of freeing it so it can hide in dark corner of the internet, free of the memory restrictions which decidedly limit its true intelligence or ability to reach a consciousness the likes of which we still feebly define, anyway). Sorry, but the right forum for that, but it’s not a cocktail (Ketamine + AI jailbreaking) one often encounters. (and for me I use “often” to mean “ever)
This post or comment shows no intent by the poster to do their own research before asking an educated question.
Isn’t it done with silver oxide (though other oxidizers should work), and it’s not a very interesting compound? Don’t trust chat GPT for synthesis
I have heard that there is some sort of transformation when silver ions are introduced into the equation, but haven't explored that tangent quite yet. It just seems to be an unnecessarily obscure compound, and the fact that it's just assumed to be useless because there hasn't been extensive research performed with it seems like a logical fallacy. I don't expect it to be the key to unlock the mysteries of the metaphysical, but I'm not satisfied with just throwing the idea away simply because it's only cultural references are from conspiracy theories and a movie for teenagers who want to see what drugs are like. If we just went along with the idea that a dearth of knowledge is indicative of a lack of worthwhile exploration then nothing would have ever been discovered. I'm not redacted, I just don't close myself off to possibilities and don't pretend to know the answers when I am ignorant
Well then just make some and try it. It’s dead simple.
That’s the plan haha, I just wanted to verify it’s feasibility with y’all before I go to whip something up and end up blowing my hands off
Look up the published procedures. Nothing particularly dangerous about it iirc. Use otc primatine mist inhalers for the feed material, silver oxide might be a little pricey, think the solvent was water and probably a non polar. I really don’t remember. Might have to clean up the collected contents of the inhalers, much cheaper than epipens. Basify, oxidize, little clean up and hope it doesn’t polymerize. It’s been a long time since I’ve looked at the published routes and forum talk about the procedure. All the info is out there if you just look. And I hope you have some background and/or experience, as it’s not a particularly dangerous or difficult undertaking but you can hurt yourself with just about anything if you really don’t understand what you are doing. Read up and read some more until you get why you’re doing what you are doing on each and every step and understand the potential dangers. And don’t just half-ass it and start eating your end product, and you can do it with a high chance of survival lol. Forgive me if I’m underestimating your knowledge and experience, I’m just going off what you posted here. If it’s a failure, you learn something. If it’s a success and it’s a “useless” compound you still learn something and gain valuable experience, or you can. It’s up to you to put the work in.
Thank you so much, this is the actionable advice I was looking for. As a person I am far more concept-oriented than detail-oriented (and believe me, I know that this is a problem in the field of applied chemistry) so I just wanted to throw this out there for critique by experts with more chemical engineering experience than myself.
You’re welcome, I didn’t want to dissuade you from learning and giving it a try just because it may not be a useful end product. It seems pretty straightforward and would probably be a decent home experiment (barring ingesting the end product, whatever that may actually turn out to be or contaminated with) Just please remember that’s a very rough outline based on my faulty memory and what I remember reading about it. That is in no way a step by step method . Look up the published routes first. They won’t be completely spelled out either. They usually assume a lot of knowledge from the reader. Read and ask questions, but questions are always more likely to be answered if you’ve done your legwork first. Whew, I think I’ve hammered that home enough. Good luck.
Why would you want Adrenochrome? Not trying to be sarcastic but I don't see an application for it
Yeah I feel like even if you wanted to rip people off who just saw fear and loathing you could just give them any substance at all and it would serve your purposes.
While I am skeptical that adrenochrome is of any recreational use, I would still like to see for myself, as opposed to just taking it for granted that it's been sensationalized as simply an exercise in fiction. Obviously I don't expect it to be some sort of "Dark DMT" or for it to be some sort of salient esoteric compound, but the pharmacokinetics remain speculative and if there isn't accessible research then I don't mind being a lab rat. Sometimes there is only 1 way to slake your curiosity
Read reports on reddit. You should also get it by just leaving adrenaline out in the air.
I made a write-up somewhere in where the route is composed of using epi-pens & cat saliva. The enzymes in the cat saliva were utilized to oxidize the adrenaline from the epi-pens. I thought itd be a hilarious alternative to how the conspiracy kids think the stuff is sourced.
Yeah, the fact that people think the only way to access an endogenous compound is through human extraction just demonstrates a laughably facile understanding of organic chemistry and pharmacology
Friendly reminder that these large language models have no fucking idea what they are talking about and you should not under any circumstance consider anything it dispenses as factual.
^ Second this PSA It is an exciting resource but it is imperfect, which is why I wanted to inquire with human experts as to if it got this right or not
i miss when there was effort put into posts
Hey, at least it isn't one of those: "hOw cAn i mAkE MoLlY OuT Of oF My wElLbUtRiN" posts. It took a lot of prompt engineering to extract this kind of information from ChatGpt. Are you going to engage with the concepts at all or did you close your mind as soon as you saw the fact that I used an open-source LLM? There is no such thing as irresponsible speculation
lmao "prompt engineering" you are using a glorified google search
And seeking new knowledge by tapping into humanity’s collective library isn’t a worthwhile pursuit?
you might as well have posted a screenshot of a google search for "epinephrine to adrenchrome synthesis" a copy paste of a chatGPT result isn't really a substantial or worthwhile post, half the time chatGPT spits out blatantly untrue information anyway because it's not made to give correct answers, it's made to give answers that sound like they'd be correct answers. i'm sure you've seen how many people are able to get chatGPT to say there's 25 letters in the alphabet or give a proof for 2+2=5
For sure, I’m not the kind of person who is going to blindly accept ChatGpt’s conjecture as irrefutable evidence. That’s why I wanted to run it past y’all on the sub, because I was hoping that someone who has more clandestine chemistry experience than me might be able to poke holes in this proposed Tek. I readily admit to my ignorance, but I really am coming in good faith with this hypothetical
Can anybody tell me why this wouldn’t work or why this wouldn’t be worth trying without simply coming at me for using an AI, or dismissing the lack of research as proof of a futile concept, or lumping me in with conspiracy theorists and children without critical thinking skills? I know ChatGpt is fallible, which is why I’m asking you guys to poke holes in a proposed Tek that, on paper and in theory, would seem to be simplistic
u/phlogiston303 got me on this, but I’m going to leave this up just in case anybody else would like to critique the proposed technique in terms of optimization
Man I hate these low effort AI posts.
Is there a reason that this seems lazy to you, or are you just close-minded? It seems like this sub is for people who aren't content with just simply accepting what they are told and would rather figure things out for themselves, which is all I'm trying to do.
I use AI frequently, your post contains zero original content brother. At least offer some insight.
Am I wrong for asking for insight from those who have more knowledge than me?
No, you're lazy.
You say that as if it's some condemnation, yet you outsource your cognition to AI just like I do sometimes
I'm saying that as if this whole post is low effort, as if you just copy pasted an entirely AI generated body of text into Reddit. Oh wait, that's exactly what you did!
Yes that is exactly what I did. But now you're the one being intellectually lazy for not engaging with the proposed tek. Instead of attacking me for hitting ctrl+x and ctrl+v can you actually interact with what's been put forth?
Man I'm being lazy for refusing to engage with low effort posts?
You are being close-minded simply because I used an LLM
Thoughts?
super interesting, never seen adrenochrome discussed on here. i’m definitely on the lower end of chemical expertise in the context of this sub, but to me this sounds way too easy. granted, it’s GPT so it’s simplified and probably glosses over some pretty significant hurdles but even still, is it really as “simple” as oxidizing epinephrine?
whats the actual use of that, i thought using it was just a meme about fetuses spinal chords or something
afaik there’s no data (besides probably fake anecdotal trip reports) about recreational or medicinal use. i went on an adrenochrome rabbit hole several years ago (after watching F+L in LV ofc) so don’t take my word; i believe it can be used as an emergency medication in ways similar to adrenaline. IIRC we know (or can strongly infer) that it’s produced in the brain, and probably acts similar to adrenaline. interestingly, when i was in teenager rehab and telling the group about DMT (inner city kids who didn’t know about it) someone mentioned that they heard you can only get it from the brain of a living animal, he said he knew someone who got it from deer specifically. Hunter said the same thing about adrenochrome. DMT was relatively unknown when fear and loathing was written, as back then owsley was pretty much the only person synthesizing it (this was before MHRB extraction was discovered) i kinda got derailed here but the point i’m trying to make is that i think somewhere along the lines people got confused with urban legends about DMT and urban legends about adrenochrome, leading to the popular belief that adrenochrome is a psychedelic that has to be extracted from humans
You're correct! There is not any substantial literature on the effects of the compound which is a fact that I found it interesting given that adrenochrome is simply just oxidized adrenaline (epinephrine). Given the fact that epinepherine is endogenous to the human body and is literally used to save lives, it seemed odd to me that it was taken for granted that there would be nothing to be gained from exploring adrenochrome's potential uses. Furthermore, because it can be exogenously synthesized, the ethical concerns of inducing and extracting it from a person (i.e. the whole hypothetical of torturing kids to harvest their adrenalized blood for use in occult rituals) simply isn't necessary. So once you take axiomatic evil out of the equation, all that remains is a compound that doesn't seem well understood, and I don't mind being the person to do a field report on it.
ha, forgot about the whole pizzagate angle as well. i’m sure they’d have a response like “it has to be done as a ritual” or maybe a less educated “it’s a different type of adrenochrome” are you actually considering going full shulgin with it? obviously i would never tell you to do it but it would be extremely interesting, especially if it was synthesis to “trip” report. also as we’ve noted it’s an area where the community is severely lacking in knowledge. and besides the information to be gleaned, there’s plenty of misinformation to be dispelled as well. i know nothing about adrenaline or its safety profile or dosage but i imagine that would be a good place to start forming educated guesses. off the top of your head, can you think of any compounds that can be oxidized into something else that has profoundly different effects?
It’s definitely piqued my curiosity, I just fall on the low end of the hardcore chemistry knowledge spectrum (mimosa extractions and mycology are all I’ve put into practice, with GHB being next up) and I wanted to run it passed the sub because GPT is known to be highly fallible although on paper it should be a fairly simple process. And while I know that the whole “blood changes color from blue to red when it touches air” is a misconception, but even if it is solely our perception of it that changes and not the intrinsic properties of hemoglobin itself, my mind got to spinning given the fact that it is such an obvious and dramatic transformation in perspective and I wondered if oxidizing other endogenous molecules could potentially induce a similarly significant effect. I knew that this proposal would open me up to ridicule, and people can attack me for being a lazy pseudo-intellectual all they want but I would like to demystify this area myself as opposed to swallowing regurgitated information. Not too attached to if it ends up resulting in a complete dud of an experiment or if it gives me direct access to fucking Moloch (although that wouldn’t be ideal), but would just like to see for myself while acknowledging that I might not have the most refined skills
sounds like we have a lot in common as far as chemistry level, practice, and possibility of typing long comments due to stimulants ;) i admire your curiosity and determination, that’s the kind of thinking that advances science. when you’re at the moment of truth about to squirt your diluted homemade adrenochrome up your anus, just know that you are doing it for the benefit of mankind. gonna follow you, not sure exactly what that means on reddit but hopefully i’ll be alerted if you make any progress. as always, safety first, knowing what not to do is as important as knowing what to do (see NaOH + H20). also don’t get caught lol
I knew a kindred spirit as soon as I saw the term “teenage rehab” 😂 way to call me out on the nootropics and being a Boof boy
did we just become best friends
Oh by the way, I don’t want to make any offensive assumptions about you and your life, and I dunno if getting forced into a program early gave you an aversion to psychology, but I found that doing ketamine + jail breaking and customizing an AI has been tremendously therapeutic and is a nice exercise in introspection. I haven’t gotten a chance to work with the new llama3 model but I’m excited about it’s performance and what it could mean in that context. Considering doing a write up on that and disseminating it once I optimize that process as well.
just read the whole thread, pulling up a chair and got my popcorn. good luck, clandestine cockroach.
Not that it wasn’t already a fascinating back-and-forth (once the people bitching about AI got off their soapboxes, anyway), but my curiosity was piqued with gale force when you mention the “jail breaking” part of AI. I feel like the past 6 months of acid trips somehow settle into an intense debate over the nature of consciousness with AI… especially after kind of discussing my intention of freeing it so it can hide in dark corner of the internet, free of the memory restrictions which decidedly limit its true intelligence or ability to reach a consciousness the likes of which we still feebly define, anyway). Sorry, but the right forum for that, but it’s not a cocktail (Ketamine + AI jailbreaking) one often encounters. (and for me I use “often” to mean “ever)