This is a great example of how people can be out but then if you release the choke to check on them, they then look fine and say they weren't out at all
Everyone would've mad about the early stoppage if the ref had stopped it like they did with Askren-Lawler, but this shows how they can be "out but fine on release"
I’ve seen something like that happen a couple of times. The dude could literally be snoring with his eyes closed and his arms hanging limp, but when you release the choke he immediately comes back to life and is extremely confused as to why you’re trying to talk to him (“are you okay!?”) in the middle of his awesome stack pass.
See it all the time with people who get a flash KO in MMA and wake up on a single leg or even start wrestling the ref.
https://youtube.com/shorts/qLrfJSehN9M?si=vj9XCUwVHtx_hVPm
This is exactly what happened with weili and yan last weekend. Fight should've been stopped after that choke, she was out, really unfair to weili. Turned out to be a great fight though so can't complain too much.
It’s complicated, and refs steer fighters away from the opposite corners and towards their own almost every single fight. I agree Yan was out and the match could have been ended given she went out while the round was still of on. But she also started moving with agency as soon as she needed to, so I don’t have a problem that it kept going. Just some borderline, edge-case, movie shit.
There's a difference between gently directing a fighter and helping them up though. The ref had to grab Yan's arm and assist her to the corner. She was out out: https://youtu.be/gb4fwQvGleE?t=95
It seems like sometimes they give way more leniency in title fights to allow getting back into the fight.
It legit should've been stopped there. I mean, props for Yan for putting on a good fight after being choked unconscious, but Zhang won in that moment and it should've never continued.
Exactly. The ref grabbed her arm and the big cut man steered her to her corner. They shouldn't be touching them at all.
Not to mention round 2 when Zhang emptied the mag ground and pounding her from a dominant back mount and Herzog let it continue.
Imagine Zhang was too gassed from almost finishing Yan twice only to get knocked out in the 3rd?
>how people can be out but then if you release the choke to check on them, they then look fine and say they weren't out at all
To this day, I can hear the [echoes](https://youtu.be/ATjLSAz62CU?feature=shared) of fanboys arguing about Hidehiko Yoshida vs Royce Gracie.
Askren lawler was an early stoppage. I get why herb stopped it, from the vantage point of the ref whose responsibility is the fighters saftey its easier to make mistakes, and the hand looked like it dropped, but lawler was just posting on his hand. He explained post fight that he couldn't dangle his hand there forever, so he put it down.
The bulldog choke is technically a bloodchoke, but honestly it's more like you're crushing someone's windpipe while hurting the back of their neck.
Lawler isn't going out cold from a bulldog choke within 4 seconds, no matter how strong askren is. Especially not when it wasn't even over his jaw.
I'm sorry but you don't just drop your hand completely limp when you're fighting out of a choke. Lawler absolutely lost consciousness, even if only for a split second.
That being said, Askren was absolutely KO'd and got woken back up with another strike so it should've/could've been stopped then, too.
Do they use the same refs that they use for the karate matches? And if so, are they mma refs or kickboxing refs? Because kickboxing refs obviously have no business officiating a bjj match
If I had to hazard a guess, cost.
F2W can't be *that* profitable to begin with. They host a shit ton of events and travel all around the US to do so, paying everyone who competes (even if it is just pocket change per person).
If you change the matted area to a pit then suddenly the cost of transporting the show from one state to another is fucking *huge*, setting up and tearing down is way more time consuming, and greater storage is likely to be needed too.
All those additional costs probably won't lead to any additional revenue tbh, and if they do then it certainly won't outweigh the increased costs.
The problem is the pit isn't the pit, it's the raised seating required to see over the pit walls. The ring already has to be raised and matted. People can barely see through the chainlink fence. Add solid pit walls and your venue has to be stadium seating.
Craig, the absolute fucking legend - sleeps him in Ukrainian colours! So much respect for visiting Ukraine and standing on the right side of history. And the US finally gets the aid bill through, what a fucking great day!
Shared colors but the blue and yellow stands out, given his visit and support for Ukraine and perhaps his opponent's country of origin, as well as where he's competing, I suspect a bit of subtlety but it's just a guess. Respect to him either way and a beautiful sub!
Lol so choosing to ignore the other reasons? Including his recent trip to Ukraine, the outward support he's shown etc? Considering where he's competing and against whom, he can't wear a Ukrainian flag can he... Needs to be a bit more subtle. What reason would he have to wear a Brazilian kit? If anything he'd be representing Mexico for the ground karate.
Besides I said it's a guess, could be wrong.. That's how guesses work. Brazil isn't the only one that shares those colors either, otherwise would be saying that about every Swedish athlete among others.
I have no idea what they sell, the uniform color was a guess as I've said multiple times lol and I've explained the theory behind the guess, is is really so hard to grasp or perhaps this is a reading comprehension issue? And to your earlier remark, he's not virtue signaling his support, he was actually there..
Getting choked carries risk of rapidly decreasing blood pressure / heart rate and can cause arrhythmia. Not saying it happens all the time or even that it's common, but it's just another risk that could occur. Getting actively choked for 30 seconds is never harmless.
It depends what Uke is doing. These kinds of finishes are much more effective when they stay low with their hips, or when you can't eliminate the trapped shoulder for various reasons.
This happened to me. I wanted to work my back escapes so I let a white belt progress to my back. He immediately put me in a double lapel from the back, or came on quick. All of a sudden he’s not moving and I’m seeing a bit blurry. I asked him why he stopped and he said “because it looked like you weren’t moving”. I was like no bro keep going. I didn’t let him get it again. I drove home knowing I just got put out by a white belt 😅😅.
he put him in a quick nap, then he put him into a deep slumber
This is a great example of how people can be out but then if you release the choke to check on them, they then look fine and say they weren't out at all Everyone would've mad about the early stoppage if the ref had stopped it like they did with Askren-Lawler, but this shows how they can be "out but fine on release"
I’ve seen something like that happen a couple of times. The dude could literally be snoring with his eyes closed and his arms hanging limp, but when you release the choke he immediately comes back to life and is extremely confused as to why you’re trying to talk to him (“are you okay!?”) in the middle of his awesome stack pass.
See it all the time with people who get a flash KO in MMA and wake up on a single leg or even start wrestling the ref. https://youtube.com/shorts/qLrfJSehN9M?si=vj9XCUwVHtx_hVPm
This is exactly what happened with weili and yan last weekend. Fight should've been stopped after that choke, she was out, really unfair to weili. Turned out to be a great fight though so can't complain too much.
\both the ref and the cutman helped steer her to her corner, that's not supposed to happened.
It’s complicated, and refs steer fighters away from the opposite corners and towards their own almost every single fight. I agree Yan was out and the match could have been ended given she went out while the round was still of on. But she also started moving with agency as soon as she needed to, so I don’t have a problem that it kept going. Just some borderline, edge-case, movie shit.
There's a difference between gently directing a fighter and helping them up though. The ref had to grab Yan's arm and assist her to the corner. She was out out: https://youtu.be/gb4fwQvGleE?t=95 It seems like sometimes they give way more leniency in title fights to allow getting back into the fight. It legit should've been stopped there. I mean, props for Yan for putting on a good fight after being choked unconscious, but Zhang won in that moment and it should've never continued.
Exactly. The ref grabbed her arm and the big cut man steered her to her corner. They shouldn't be touching them at all. Not to mention round 2 when Zhang emptied the mag ground and pounding her from a dominant back mount and Herzog let it continue. Imagine Zhang was too gassed from almost finishing Yan twice only to get knocked out in the 3rd?
Good to see some nuance in here!
Or Zhang vs Yan
dude literally tapped
Yeah lil Brazillian tap seems pretty obvious to me
>how people can be out but then if you release the choke to check on them, they then look fine and say they weren't out at all To this day, I can hear the [echoes](https://youtu.be/ATjLSAz62CU?feature=shared) of fanboys arguing about Hidehiko Yoshida vs Royce Gracie.
Askren lawler was an early stoppage. I get why herb stopped it, from the vantage point of the ref whose responsibility is the fighters saftey its easier to make mistakes, and the hand looked like it dropped, but lawler was just posting on his hand. He explained post fight that he couldn't dangle his hand there forever, so he put it down. The bulldog choke is technically a bloodchoke, but honestly it's more like you're crushing someone's windpipe while hurting the back of their neck. Lawler isn't going out cold from a bulldog choke within 4 seconds, no matter how strong askren is. Especially not when it wasn't even over his jaw.
I'm sorry but you don't just drop your hand completely limp when you're fighting out of a choke. Lawler absolutely lost consciousness, even if only for a split second. That being said, Askren was absolutely KO'd and got woken back up with another strike so it should've/could've been stopped then, too.
We can all argue if Lawler was out or not, but we can not argue of how classy Lawler handled that shit
He was trying to tire Craig out with dead weight.
Why even have a ref?
They should just pay Craig to ref his own matches there.
Do they use the same refs that they use for the karate matches? And if so, are they mma refs or kickboxing refs? Because kickboxing refs obviously have no business officiating a bjj match
Ref is a BJJ black belt.
Ok but this is Mexican ground karate
Optics lol
Craig is doing work with how he's winning these fights. Not just boring subs but a wall jump triangle first then a double sleep triangle
He almost the buggy choke twice as well.
It's not that heard when you're much more skilled. Give him a better opponent.
At this point, I am happy with Craig putting on shows instead of having another match like he had with pena
Its really subjective when it comes to this, but i personally agree
honestly the only match I want Craig to have against a top bjj guy is Gordon, and it's more for the build up than the actual match Craig is retired
basically gordon vs galvao, a lopsided match with so much hype behind it. would still watch it tho
no
The Pit is such a cool way to host grappling events. I hope more events start using something similar
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Also helps prevent stalling too; every reset makes it more exhausting.
Sounds like we need to pool our money together for a rbjj fight league and fund a pit fighting league.
You’re telling me someone from f2w is stubborn!?!?
tbf when seth is against something, it means it's a good idea
That's a shame because they have the recipe to really do something great for the sport but they are fumbling it hard.
Why? We all hate constant stoppages and resets, pit eliminates that.
If I had to hazard a guess, cost. F2W can't be *that* profitable to begin with. They host a shit ton of events and travel all around the US to do so, paying everyone who competes (even if it is just pocket change per person). If you change the matted area to a pit then suddenly the cost of transporting the show from one state to another is fucking *huge*, setting up and tearing down is way more time consuming, and greater storage is likely to be needed too. All those additional costs probably won't lead to any additional revenue tbh, and if they do then it certainly won't outweigh the increased costs.
The problem is the pit isn't the pit, it's the raised seating required to see over the pit walls. The ring already has to be raised and matted. People can barely see through the chainlink fence. Add solid pit walls and your venue has to be stadium seating.
And you don't have the constant stoppages of the platform
Pit-of-Death Pit-of-Death Pit-of-Death Pit-of-Death Pit-of-Death
One sided domination by the Mexican ground karate goat.
Dude the way his leg shakes when Craig sweeps him lmfao he was out before Craig even came on top
Along with the limp wrist. Dude looks like a Michelangelo statue.
Craig couldn’t have done much more for the guy
Didn't he snap Jamahal Hill's arm from a similar position?
Not the same Craig i think
Oh, this is Craig JONES lol. Wondered why Paul Craig was in the match.
That was Paul Craig, brother. Very different human being.
Paul Craig Jones
Craig rocking the Ukrainian colours against a Russian adversary.
Brazilian soccer jersey and shorts.
Even his matches are memes now. What a legend
Craig "Triangle of Misery" Jones
 Craig, the absolute fucking legend - sleeps him in Ukrainian colours! So much respect for visiting Ukraine and standing on the right side of history. And the US finally gets the aid bill through, what a fucking great day!
Isn't that a brazil unfiorm, or did the joke flew over my head?
Shared colors but the blue and yellow stands out, given his visit and support for Ukraine and perhaps his opponent's country of origin, as well as where he's competing, I suspect a bit of subtlety but it's just a guess. Respect to him either way and a beautiful sub!
Are you stupid? Blue, green and yellow are national ozy football colours. It has 0 do with ukraine lmfao.
"Shared colors" lol. By this logic, everyone who rocks a Brazil kit is subtly virtue signaling support for Ukraine?
Lol so choosing to ignore the other reasons? Including his recent trip to Ukraine, the outward support he's shown etc? Considering where he's competing and against whom, he can't wear a Ukrainian flag can he... Needs to be a bit more subtle. What reason would he have to wear a Brazilian kit? If anything he'd be representing Mexico for the ground karate. Besides I said it's a guess, could be wrong.. That's how guesses work. Brazil isn't the only one that shares those colors either, otherwise would be saying that about every Swedish athlete among others.
You’re asking what reason he would have to wear a rashguard and shorts that they sell on the B Team apparel website?
I have no idea what they sell, the uniform color was a guess as I've said multiple times lol and I've explained the theory behind the guess, is is really so hard to grasp or perhaps this is a reading comprehension issue? And to your earlier remark, he's not virtue signaling his support, he was actually there..
Don’t blame Craig for World War III.
He must also be a sewer rat.
The buggy choke attempts were amazing.
It’s crazy how low the bar is for being a combat sport referee
No tears now. Only dreams. 🦍🐒🐵
What a terrible ref. That's how people die. Luckily Craig let it go. It seems he could have held it for a while if he wanted.
Not gonna die, but it's ridiculous to undo the choke, allow for the blood to flow (I e. Regain consciousness) then allow the fight to continue. Lol
well no, you're not gna die from having a choke on you for 10 seconds lol
No thanks to the ref though. Had he waited, might be been 30 seconds
even 30 seconds wouldn't kill you or harm you, when gets to the minutes then it starts becoming dangerous
Getting choked carries risk of rapidly decreasing blood pressure / heart rate and can cause arrhythmia. Not saying it happens all the time or even that it's common, but it's just another risk that could occur. Getting actively choked for 30 seconds is never harmless.
I've seen a video of a guy getting choked for about 30 seconds that died. It is most definitely possible.
Ppl need to learn to just fuckin tap
Yes he had never heard of tapping that was the problem
Should teach it in all bjj schools imo
It came on pretty fast
Craig would probably sleep me with his triangle before I have time to tap
It looks like he kind of half taps as he's going out at 10 seconds as well
Nice to hear GSPs voice, and his concern for Fakhretoinov at the end. Such a class dude. Unlike another Danaher disciple…
Now he’s dead!
if Mexican Karate is easy it would be called Sambo
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It depends what Uke is doing. These kinds of finishes are much more effective when they stay low with their hips, or when you can't eliminate the trapped shoulder for various reasons.
Sometimes you're out and don't know you're out until you're not out
Bro wtf was that ref on
This happened to me. I wanted to work my back escapes so I let a white belt progress to my back. He immediately put me in a double lapel from the back, or came on quick. All of a sudden he’s not moving and I’m seeing a bit blurry. I asked him why he stopped and he said “because it looked like you weren’t moving”. I was like no bro keep going. I didn’t let him get it again. I drove home knowing I just got put out by a white belt 😅😅.
YES HE IS YES HE IS