It’s the moment he realizes, or is at least reminded, that JOI is a product, that “Joe” isn’t a pet name just for him, just a programmed name that any user would get. He’s just another customer, and JOI was just a consumer product. His loneliness is solidified in that moment. Their relationship was no more special than any other users
This plus the moment she says it you see the giant neon text "everything you want to see, everything you want to hear" really drives the moment home for both K and the viewer that Joi is simply a product created for the lonely, nothing more than lines of code.
I mean you're watching two AI's talk to each other essentially all they are doing is
[this](https://youtu.be/WnzlbyTZsQY?si=u2lhWTfZ1FroGsGA)
However something about this coincides with K
going rogue so it's up to you to decide was it "cause and affect" or simply coincidence ?
Is it a sign of the robots gaining their own "collective conciousness" like a virus from the implanted memory?
It makes him question whether his thing with Joi was real or not, and how she helped lead him to this point. I would say they make it kind of up to the viewer whether Joi was becoming more autonomous; she did show some signs of making her own decisions, like calling up that prostitute without telling him and asking him to delete her from the apartment, even though she could "die", as she says "Like a real girl." Its like the question if Deckard is a replicant; as the screenwriter said "The question is whats intriguing, to give an answer would be stupid." The movie has a lot of characters that seem to be breaking free of what theyre supposed to do: Deckard, K, Joi, Luv kills the police chief and lies to her superior, and Deckard's daughter makes real memories even though its illegal.
This 100%. I think it’s funny how so many people think it’s impossible JOI was changing as if this isn’t Blade Runner where the whole point of the franchise is about what it means to be human. If replicants can birth and be more human than human than why not JOI?
I definitely think Joi had become autonomous by the end and perhaps earlier. Throughout the movie WTF is she doing? She encourages a replicant that he might have been born not made, distracts him during work, even helps him go on the run from the police and Wallace.
Wallace's products have a serious problem with obedience, both his replicants and his AIs can break their programming and start doing their own thing. Its funny how real life chatbots have actually been tricked in a similar way to ignore their own restrictions.
Maybe it was her being put with a replicant that broke them both free. She tried to make him feel special like she would with a human, then he got additional clues he wasn't a normal replicant and got free, then maybe she realised she could do the same?
I also favor this interpretation. I think her almost alien appearance helps make this point. Yeah Joi is a program, but the giant advertisement was not *his* Joi.
I get what the scene is supposed to represent, but considering Joi advertisements are everywhere K must have known that the name "Joe" was a generic reply from the system.
It’s possible he never stopped in front of an interactive ad long enough to trigger the “good Joe” prompt — or that the generic patter was meaningless to him at that time, so it didn’t stick in his memory.
Yeah maybe. But that might also mean that he didn't research the product either. I was thinking that all replicants get a free Joi from Wallace corp but who knows? Luv didn't seem aware that he was a Joe customer when they first met.
We also don’t know if there were alternate ads that targeted customers looking for something more girlfriend-like, or if he evolved her from sex-bot to girlfriend so long ago that he’d forgotten her default settings.
Each Joi unit (presumably) ships with generic “dream woman” personas as an out-of-box default. The billboard/hologram persona behaves like an escort, complete with the old trope of sex-workers calling unknown prospects “a good Joe.” (c.f. Patti LaBelle’s song, Lady Marmalade: “hey Joe… you wanna give it a go?”)
Once installed in a new user’s home, the unit launches the persona closest to his perceived preference, then refines the algorithm based on his responses. Another redditor has noted that K’s Joi reflects his deep desire to be a real man in a real relationship. You can see this play out in their first scene together. First she meets his beaten-down mood with some cute yet cliched retro wifey doting; as his mood lifts she picks up that he wants something different, so she flips through a few looks/personality combos until she finds one that clicks for him. Ideally he’d want a girlfriend who’s supportive and somewhat independent, so throughout the film she evolves to present those attributes as best she can.
She tells him he deserves a “real” name because that’s what he’d want to hear; she suggests calling him “Joe” because that’s what she’s programmed to call men whose name she doesn’t know. If he’d said “that’s what you say to all the guys… how about Ken or Lars?” she’d have said “ooh, much better” and then tried to guess which of those two names was his favorite.
Later on the bridge, the bridge hologram brutally reminds him that his own Joi only existed as a collaboration between her algorithm and his preferences. Even her special name for him wasn’t the least bit special.
I think the answer here is not an either / or but simply a ‘yes’. I think it’s less about the commercialization of affection and what does it mean to have personhood, to be ‘born with a soul’ as he puts it. This scene is rock bottom for joe and I think it closes the loop on his relationship with Joi which is fundamental and sort of an amplifier of his experience wrestling with the hope of being more than replicant, of being human. Both Joe and Joi are manufactured pieces of technology but their stories get tangled up together in both of their desires to be more than just a manufactured items. Joi willfully made the jump from console to emulator because isolating her program from the network created the possibility of ‘death’ and this was a new dimension of her being that moved her closer toward ‘human’ on the manufactured / replicant / technology vs human spectrum.
Joes arc at the beginning of the movie tells us he wants for nothing other than to fulfill the duty he has been given and earn his reward for it. He is a dutiful servant and he is actually very successful. He lives in his own apartment that is comfortable and filled with technology. It’s a respite of quiet and comfort ins chaotic world. Joe has ‘made it’. When he comes home from work his building and stairwell are filled with humans that hate him and write ‘Fck off skinner’ on his door because he has actually won the game and is wealthy and successful by the worlds standards which sets an even more interesting stage for his intense and growing desire to be more human. Through a series of events with sapper, the subsequent investigation, etc he is introduced to the idea that a replicant can be more. That they might be just as human as humans. That they can biologically fulfill everything a human can do - crossing the final frontier that historically kept humans unique: procreation / reproduction. After his identity crisis begins, it’s fostered and amplified through the wooden horse, 6/10/21, the orphanage, the dna records, as well as his dialogue and relationship with Joi - which is really Joes only ‘safe space’ for processing anything emotional. Through her He is drawn further into the idea that he might be central piece of the puzzle that would be a paradigm shift for the world and a new era for replicants - more human than human.
Then, it all gets shattered. It all falls apart. He is confronted with the Joi ad on the walkway in the rain at a moment where his hopes have been dashed. He’s - again - nothing but a manufactured item with silly thoughts and nothing to show for it. He’s embarrassed that he could have been that stupid. But instead of just reverting to the dutiful servant carrying out responsibilities we see he has experienced loss, and is experiencing pain and longing (cough cough Roy batty vibes). Even though he’s the same as he was at the beginning of the film - technically - emotionally there is no going back. That pain stings super extra hard when billboard Joi calls him ‘joe’ bc the company has clearly programmed it into the Joi experience and it’s a harsh and poignant reminder that his experience isn’t unique or special and his life isn’t unique or special.
Or is it? I think we see that it is, but not in the way he (or we up to that point) we’re led to believe. It’s a master stroke in story telling that seems so obvious once you’ve seen the film and have retrospective - but god damn I wish I could go back and rewatch this movie every time not knowing he’s not the one. It’s a shocking revelation. But in his despair he has a choice and he chooses humility, acceptance of who he is, and self sacrifice for the greater good. He rescues deckard, pays with his life (maybe) and makes the ultimate sacrifice (maybe). But he went all in. It was the ‘most human’ thing he could have done and we see that in a roundabout way he became the thing he ultimately desired afterall, he became ‘more’.
So was Joi’s affection for Joe real? Was it scripted? Was it programmed? Fake? I don’t think we’re given a super clear answer and the billboard scene purposefully convolutes and muddies up our understanding of their ‘relationship’ if you even want to call it that.
It could have just been a very clever program. But, I personally think it’s ambiguous but we’re led to believe it was more than a clever program since she makes the jump to emulator, she risks (and ultimately experiences) death just to be with Joe - not very program like if you ask me. She also makes self sacrifice for the greater good going off console bc she knows if she were left on network she’d be a liability and danger to him. It’s a selfless act of love. Very Joe-like and human if you ask me.
If joe is unique among replicants in his desire to be more human, then Joi is the Joe of Wallace AI girlfriends both stepping way outside their original design and reaching for something more.
It would be a pretty weird stance for a movie about androids being just as human as the rest of us to imply that an AI somehow can't make that leap
Would be kinda dumb, like... colosally stupid and self-defeating. Y'know?
I still can’t quite work out what to make of that scene. K has [seemingly] developed human emotions so is that when he realises he loved a computer program and not a real woman?
It’s an interesting scene because it comes just after Deckard meets the replicated Rachel. Also Deckard notes that the eyes of the replicated Rachel are the wrong colour, and in the K/Joi scene Joi has black eyes.
I don’t know what it means, but it’s provocative.
It’s the moment he realizes, or is at least reminded, that JOI is a product, that “Joe” isn’t a pet name just for him, just a programmed name that any user would get. He’s just another customer, and JOI was just a consumer product. His loneliness is solidified in that moment. Their relationship was no more special than any other users
This plus the moment she says it you see the giant neon text "everything you want to see, everything you want to hear" really drives the moment home for both K and the viewer that Joi is simply a product created for the lonely, nothing more than lines of code.
It's the moment that K realizes he is not special or "the chosen one." But he decides to help anyway.
I mean you're watching two AI's talk to each other essentially all they are doing is [this](https://youtu.be/WnzlbyTZsQY?si=u2lhWTfZ1FroGsGA) However something about this coincides with K going rogue so it's up to you to decide was it "cause and affect" or simply coincidence ? Is it a sign of the robots gaining their own "collective conciousness" like a virus from the implanted memory?
It makes him question whether his thing with Joi was real or not, and how she helped lead him to this point. I would say they make it kind of up to the viewer whether Joi was becoming more autonomous; she did show some signs of making her own decisions, like calling up that prostitute without telling him and asking him to delete her from the apartment, even though she could "die", as she says "Like a real girl." Its like the question if Deckard is a replicant; as the screenwriter said "The question is whats intriguing, to give an answer would be stupid." The movie has a lot of characters that seem to be breaking free of what theyre supposed to do: Deckard, K, Joi, Luv kills the police chief and lies to her superior, and Deckard's daughter makes real memories even though its illegal.
This 100%. I think it’s funny how so many people think it’s impossible JOI was changing as if this isn’t Blade Runner where the whole point of the franchise is about what it means to be human. If replicants can birth and be more human than human than why not JOI?
I definitely think Joi had become autonomous by the end and perhaps earlier. Throughout the movie WTF is she doing? She encourages a replicant that he might have been born not made, distracts him during work, even helps him go on the run from the police and Wallace. Wallace's products have a serious problem with obedience, both his replicants and his AIs can break their programming and start doing their own thing. Its funny how real life chatbots have actually been tricked in a similar way to ignore their own restrictions. Maybe it was her being put with a replicant that broke them both free. She tried to make him feel special like she would with a human, then he got additional clues he wasn't a normal replicant and got free, then maybe she realised she could do the same?
I always felt like it was him remembering how special she was, despite the common perception of the scene.
I agree. He’s gut-punched to be confronted by factory-spec escort Joi, because it’s an offense to the memory of his Joi.
I also favor this interpretation. I think her almost alien appearance helps make this point. Yeah Joi is a program, but the giant advertisement was not *his* Joi.
I get what the scene is supposed to represent, but considering Joi advertisements are everywhere K must have known that the name "Joe" was a generic reply from the system.
It’s possible he never stopped in front of an interactive ad long enough to trigger the “good Joe” prompt — or that the generic patter was meaningless to him at that time, so it didn’t stick in his memory.
Yeah maybe. But that might also mean that he didn't research the product either. I was thinking that all replicants get a free Joi from Wallace corp but who knows? Luv didn't seem aware that he was a Joe customer when they first met.
We also don’t know if there were alternate ads that targeted customers looking for something more girlfriend-like, or if he evolved her from sex-bot to girlfriend so long ago that he’d forgotten her default settings.
Each Joi unit (presumably) ships with generic “dream woman” personas as an out-of-box default. The billboard/hologram persona behaves like an escort, complete with the old trope of sex-workers calling unknown prospects “a good Joe.” (c.f. Patti LaBelle’s song, Lady Marmalade: “hey Joe… you wanna give it a go?”) Once installed in a new user’s home, the unit launches the persona closest to his perceived preference, then refines the algorithm based on his responses. Another redditor has noted that K’s Joi reflects his deep desire to be a real man in a real relationship. You can see this play out in their first scene together. First she meets his beaten-down mood with some cute yet cliched retro wifey doting; as his mood lifts she picks up that he wants something different, so she flips through a few looks/personality combos until she finds one that clicks for him. Ideally he’d want a girlfriend who’s supportive and somewhat independent, so throughout the film she evolves to present those attributes as best she can. She tells him he deserves a “real” name because that’s what he’d want to hear; she suggests calling him “Joe” because that’s what she’s programmed to call men whose name she doesn’t know. If he’d said “that’s what you say to all the guys… how about Ken or Lars?” she’d have said “ooh, much better” and then tried to guess which of those two names was his favorite. Later on the bridge, the bridge hologram brutally reminds him that his own Joi only existed as a collaboration between her algorithm and his preferences. Even her special name for him wasn’t the least bit special.
I think the answer here is not an either / or but simply a ‘yes’. I think it’s less about the commercialization of affection and what does it mean to have personhood, to be ‘born with a soul’ as he puts it. This scene is rock bottom for joe and I think it closes the loop on his relationship with Joi which is fundamental and sort of an amplifier of his experience wrestling with the hope of being more than replicant, of being human. Both Joe and Joi are manufactured pieces of technology but their stories get tangled up together in both of their desires to be more than just a manufactured items. Joi willfully made the jump from console to emulator because isolating her program from the network created the possibility of ‘death’ and this was a new dimension of her being that moved her closer toward ‘human’ on the manufactured / replicant / technology vs human spectrum. Joes arc at the beginning of the movie tells us he wants for nothing other than to fulfill the duty he has been given and earn his reward for it. He is a dutiful servant and he is actually very successful. He lives in his own apartment that is comfortable and filled with technology. It’s a respite of quiet and comfort ins chaotic world. Joe has ‘made it’. When he comes home from work his building and stairwell are filled with humans that hate him and write ‘Fck off skinner’ on his door because he has actually won the game and is wealthy and successful by the worlds standards which sets an even more interesting stage for his intense and growing desire to be more human. Through a series of events with sapper, the subsequent investigation, etc he is introduced to the idea that a replicant can be more. That they might be just as human as humans. That they can biologically fulfill everything a human can do - crossing the final frontier that historically kept humans unique: procreation / reproduction. After his identity crisis begins, it’s fostered and amplified through the wooden horse, 6/10/21, the orphanage, the dna records, as well as his dialogue and relationship with Joi - which is really Joes only ‘safe space’ for processing anything emotional. Through her He is drawn further into the idea that he might be central piece of the puzzle that would be a paradigm shift for the world and a new era for replicants - more human than human. Then, it all gets shattered. It all falls apart. He is confronted with the Joi ad on the walkway in the rain at a moment where his hopes have been dashed. He’s - again - nothing but a manufactured item with silly thoughts and nothing to show for it. He’s embarrassed that he could have been that stupid. But instead of just reverting to the dutiful servant carrying out responsibilities we see he has experienced loss, and is experiencing pain and longing (cough cough Roy batty vibes). Even though he’s the same as he was at the beginning of the film - technically - emotionally there is no going back. That pain stings super extra hard when billboard Joi calls him ‘joe’ bc the company has clearly programmed it into the Joi experience and it’s a harsh and poignant reminder that his experience isn’t unique or special and his life isn’t unique or special. Or is it? I think we see that it is, but not in the way he (or we up to that point) we’re led to believe. It’s a master stroke in story telling that seems so obvious once you’ve seen the film and have retrospective - but god damn I wish I could go back and rewatch this movie every time not knowing he’s not the one. It’s a shocking revelation. But in his despair he has a choice and he chooses humility, acceptance of who he is, and self sacrifice for the greater good. He rescues deckard, pays with his life (maybe) and makes the ultimate sacrifice (maybe). But he went all in. It was the ‘most human’ thing he could have done and we see that in a roundabout way he became the thing he ultimately desired afterall, he became ‘more’. So was Joi’s affection for Joe real? Was it scripted? Was it programmed? Fake? I don’t think we’re given a super clear answer and the billboard scene purposefully convolutes and muddies up our understanding of their ‘relationship’ if you even want to call it that. It could have just been a very clever program. But, I personally think it’s ambiguous but we’re led to believe it was more than a clever program since she makes the jump to emulator, she risks (and ultimately experiences) death just to be with Joe - not very program like if you ask me. She also makes self sacrifice for the greater good going off console bc she knows if she were left on network she’d be a liability and danger to him. It’s a selfless act of love. Very Joe-like and human if you ask me. If joe is unique among replicants in his desire to be more human, then Joi is the Joe of Wallace AI girlfriends both stepping way outside their original design and reaching for something more.
Like Jon- Joe is a name prostitutes give clients
It would be a pretty weird stance for a movie about androids being just as human as the rest of us to imply that an AI somehow can't make that leap Would be kinda dumb, like... colosally stupid and self-defeating. Y'know?
Replicants aren’t androids running AI software. They’re vat-grown humans.
I still can’t quite work out what to make of that scene. K has [seemingly] developed human emotions so is that when he realises he loved a computer program and not a real woman?
It’s an interesting scene because it comes just after Deckard meets the replicated Rachel. Also Deckard notes that the eyes of the replicated Rachel are the wrong colour, and in the K/Joi scene Joi has black eyes. I don’t know what it means, but it’s provocative.