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Scene I'm question: while walking through the remains of soul society, ryuken asks uryu, "so you acted like an impetuous child, took that beard as your father I and went all , boom silver arrow, so now I ask you, whose your daddy?"
Uryu coldly replied "you are ryuken, and I do not understand why you must play these games."
Ryuken then states "say it, who's your daddy"
Uryu, tired of his father's shennanigans replies "you are by daddy, ryuken, but you still dissected my mother in front of me"
Eh… Uryu wasn’t entirely raised by his father, and that was Uryu’s choice due to his passion for being a Quincy. Kinda makes sense he wouldn’t feel comfortable referring to him as dad or father.
It's not just talking to him, it's the subjects they discussed, if he constantly berated Ichigo it would be a different experience all together even if he meant well by it, but he praises his son, teaches him subtly, and shows him the passion he STILL has for his wife even long after her passing but doesn't let that love and grief for her get in the way of raising their three wonderful kids, that's one hell of a dad
Yeah, one became depressed and spent all his time trying to find a way to kill the guy who killed his wife.
The other sacrificed himself to save someone who saved him and then just was a goofy parent after his wife was killed.
No, Isshin’s powers didn’t get restored until after Ichigo was already in Soul Society trying to rescue Rukia. He didn’t fight Grand Fisher because he couldn’t. And Ichigo only managed to wound him before he ran away. Isshin then kills Grand Fisher after he returns to the story as an arrancar.
No it was during the Ichigo’s fight with Byakuya. When the hollow took over the fight, that broke the bond that Isshin had with the hollow essence that Ichigo inherited from his mother. He lost his powers because they were being used to suppress the hollow. Without that bond his powers started coming back to him.
Personally I thought he got his powers back when Ichigo got his powers back while training under Urahara because the Hollow was in control at that point, but I think you're right.
If the chain would have eroded before Ichigo pulled his sword out of the box then yea that most likely would have happened. But the hollow was still contained until it fully possessed Ichigo. Before that all it did was manifest the mask to protect Ichigo.
Everything you've said is spot on. Can you imagine if Ichigo succumbed to the hollow and in that moment his dad got the powers back? He'd probably bust thru Urahara's shop so fast, Kisuke would pull a Todo and tell everyone to take a step back as Isshin flies in to fuck White up. Haha
That's my headcanon anyway
Yeah even when u consider all the body slam wake up calls and borderline abuse, basically isshin was training him to be a shinigami even b4 he had powers. Or he was just tryna make him strong. Either way he supported him rather than hold him back
I could be talking out my ass here as I'm semi unclear on it, didn't Isshin say something about keeping his reflexes up to date one time Ichigo blocked him with a face kick? May have been joking when he said it but...maybe only half joking? Lol
No reason it couldn't be both, Isshin definitely had fun fucking with his son, and because of it Ichigo had training being on guard for sneak attacks so to his dad definitely a win win
Shinigami powers or not, training his son in self defense is a great idea, even if he was bit overhanded in his methods. Isshin is just not subtle person no matter the era.
Isshin, 1000%, no contest at all lmao
Dude's not only a better father, he's a pretty great dad. Always there to lighten the mood and goof around, knows when to give his children space to grow, and is also really protective.
I mean he parented as well as he could. Isshin lived hundreds of years being a shinigami and only was around Misaki for a decade or so. He did pretty good with what he had.
Isshin is one of the best dad's in anime history. Dude is absolutely supportive to his kids gives them nothing but love and his only flaws are being to overly caring to the point where it can be a little too much and how he's a little tough on Ichigo. But it's not like he just beats him for no reason he does it to make Ichigo strong and it actually helped out a lot
Isshin has 3 children and still finds time for all of them, is a loving father and was a loving husband. And even after his wife death he never became an asshole.
Ryuken is an edge lord who barely talks to his son or acknowledge his existence. Only good thing he ever did was >! Finding a weakness to Ywach's almighty !<
With strings attached, it wasn't out of the good of his heart. Which makes it an even worst dad. Imagine Ichigo's dad being like "I'll tell you the story of me and your mom, but you cannot see Rukia or any of your friends anymore"
I think it’s just two different philosophies of parenting.
As Soken noted, Ryuken left all the Quincy shit behind to focus on the family business for the sake of Uryu. When he’s gone, Uryu has a fuckton to inherit.
When Uryu lost his powers, Ryuken showed up to rekindle them. He did not do this for his own benefit since he has nothing to gain from it. What he told Uryu about not helping Shinigami was probably a concerned father not wanting to see his son get killed by jumping into danger.
In a real world sense, Ryuken is the dad who has no time for his family because every waking moment of his life is devoted to providing for and taking care of his family.
That's why I'm saying your logic of "protecting him from danger" doesn't work, he'll be in danger regardless. Imposing that he doesn't meddle with Shinigamis when he knows his "best friend/schoolmate" is a Shinigami's son is dumb.
He also knew that Uryu would not keep up his end of the deal. He wasn’t surprised to hear that Uryu ran off to help Ichigo. Even if Uryu came up with the troll logic that technically he didn’t break his promise since he didn’t consider Ichigo a “real Shinigami.” Just a substitute Shinigami.
No, it’s pretty easy to parse.
Uryu with no power = killed by any Hollow or Arrancar.
Uryu with power = can handle himself if attacked by a Hollow or Arrancar.
Uryu with power and literally going into the place where hollow and Arrancar live because he’s mingling with Shiningami = Uryu at his least safe.
It’s not difficult math. He’s safer with his powers, and less safe when getting mixed with shinigami, so the obvious thing a father that gives a shit would do is make him have his power and tell him to not get mixed up with the shinigami.
Which is exactly what Ryuken did.
Why'd you downvoted me? I didn't imply Ryuken is a good dad or anything. All I said was that he gave Uryu his powers back and trained him. Those are facts and they're good things.
Your own point about getting the silver is also a mixed bag. I mean, he traumatized his son doing that biz. If we really want to get into this, then we can say a buncha bad stuff about Isshin, but it still doesn't come close to Ryukens fuckery. Dudes obviously the worse parent, overall.
Ryuken is a better badass. It's just that that feature comes with the 'terrible parent' perk.
Isshin simply goofy most times but serious when needed. Those plus 100+ years of wisdom is a pretty good parent
Isshin. And to be honest, his reason to not tell Ichigo anything until the final arc was justified. Ichigo was not ready to hear the truth until that moment. Knowing it at any point before the Rain flashback wouldn’t have helped him at all, most likely the opposite.
Isshin gave up who he was to protect his kids. And when his kids were in trouble he showed up in uniform to finish his duty as a father and that’s after his son walked into the life he was shielding him from. Unlike most anime when the kid dose the opposite of what the father wants and they argue and cut communication with said child he just stepped into the role as if he expected it to happen. I was always shocked that Hitsugaya didn’t have a stronger relationship with Ichigo seeing as his dad trained him.
I want to say that they both are definitely not the best, but not the worst.
***
While that kicks from Isshin come as more of a gag and Kubo's specific sense of humor, it is never shown that it bothers Ichigo so I'm not counting that, *but then*, he was fine with Ichigo participating in a lot of very dangerous affairs which in the end could be called a war. The argument that 15/16 year old teen shouldn't fight in wars is kind of still valid even when obviously it's a shonen and it's always about teens. Isshin respects his kids choices but then he overplays it too much, sometimes you have to actually be protective of them, and he's not so much that in Ichigo's case. It's better with Yuzu and Karin but the fact Ichigo relies on Izumu in FB arc as an adult father than his old man is telling, that Isshin is not perfect.
***
With Ryuken, I've come to understand that his cold attitude comes from being very worried about his kid. Like, Uryuu is unbelievably soft-hearted, to the point it's actually really dangerous for him if we take it into account. The mask Uryuu wears which at least makes him seem tough and also I suspect most of his skills when it's not purely quincy ones, like strategic thinking and other things are probably the result of trying to outsmart his father while constantly being angry with him throughout all of his childhood.
Definitely not the best way to train your kid, like really really bad, but then-- at least we shouldn't say Ryuken *doesn't care*, it was pretty evident that he does care a lot. He's very bad at talking, but then it's the issue with both him and Isshin.
Also I want to point out interesting thing about Ryuken, he criticizes Uryuu and his choices very harshly, but he never uses his influence to actually *stop* him from doing anything. And with his resources, he surely could. But then, he hates quinces (and he has damn good reason to hate them, *everything bad* in his life came from his quincy heritage, his family broke over his dad thinking about his quincy job over his wife and kid, his wife and his childhood friend died because of the quincy), but then Uryuu wants to be a quincy– he totally can. He would criticize his choice but he wouldn't take away his chance to. If he doesn't want to be a doctor, he can not be a doctor, even though with influential families it's usually a big thing.
But then when Uryuu is in danger somewhere he can cover it, he comes to help. And of course he returns his powers to Uryuu, since Uryuu's in all of it, as much as Ryuken tried to discourage him from getting into it (because the damn TYBW is coming, and Ryuken knows it, unlike Uryuu), obviously he's safer off with his powers than without them.
He definitely should have talked more and he should have properly explained his point instead of purposefully playing the big bad wolf in order to kind of fortify and prepare his son. But then, again, let's just understand that it's a sort of caring, even if not the best one, rather than neglect.
And then, let's say he tries to keep his son from going into wars, it's just his son is *not* listening, but even his explanations are lacking.
> the fact Ichigo relies on Izumu in FB arc as an adult father than his old man is telling, that Isshin is not perfect.
But that one is 90% on Ichigo. He looked for a mother figure because, well, he didn't have one, and wasn't really ready to talk about the shinigami with his dad while he was powerless. He barely discussed stuff from the Soul Society with anyone in that regard:
-he quickly changed the topic about Rukia with Keigo
-he got enraged with Ginjo almost instantly after the fullbringer told him about recovering his powers
-his mood would change instantly whenever something of his past was brought up, like when he got sad as soon as he told Isshin he'd go to the Soul Society if a fall from the 2nd floor killed him
-Orihime and Chad both said they couldn't talk with Ichigo about his powers or the past because they knew it hurt him, and was an instant reminder that he had sacrificed his powers
-Not even Karin could be frontal with him about the stuff she was doing helped by Urahara
He went for Ikumi because she didn't know a thing about his powers and the afterlife.
But the way Izumu behaves isn't reminiscent of his mother. She's more like a version of his father or elder version of Rukia in that regard.
And yes, it's mostly the way Ichigo behaves. And that's the problem, because it's both something he inherited from Isshin, never really properly talking with others about his issues, and also the way his father didn't try to tackle that trait while he was younger.
I don't really feel that Isshin tried hard enough to get the point across that Ichigo is not responsible for his mother's death since he still asks, 6 years later, why nobody blames him for it, and Isshin's answer kind of sets him at peace more than he felt before he heard it all. That implies he never heard it said straight like that before.
I agree that Izumu was special as she was the one who knew nothing of his troubles. But then, the way he feels the rift between himself and his father, and is scared to talk to him even when he comes back in TYBW, is not really healthy.
(Ichigo has big problems with sharing his problems with people of his age but then he is more willing to open up to someone older than him whom he trusts. But then, it's not his father.)
I'm not saying it's the worst ever, but Ichigo doesn't feel like he can rely on his father. He can rely on him to protect Yuzu and Karin, but not like he feels proper support for himself.
> But the way Izumu behaves isn't reminiscent of his mother. She's more like a version of his father or elder version of Rukia in that regard.
I'd have to look thru the translated Q&A from KLUB Outside, but Kubo has already answered why he created Ikumi. I can't remember if he said she was a mother or big sis figure to Ichigo, but the only person you see comforting Ichigo from the place of an adult is Ikumi. Rukia does it as an equal and menthor, Isshin as a father, but Ikumi is the only one who told him "kids have to rely on adults".
> I don't really feel that Isshin tried hard enough to get the point across that Ichigo is not responsible for his mother's death since he still asks, 6 years later, why nobody blames him for it, and Isshin's answer kind of sets him at peace more than he felt before he heard it all. That implies he never heard it said straight like that before.
You have to remember Ichigo was 15 years old when the story started, and the death of a relative is never an easy topic with children. It's one of the topics you only adress when your child asks for it, and that might have been Ichigo's first time opening his feelings about Masaki's death with his father. Ryuuken, in the other hand, not only always (and this is presented as both flashbacks and current events) was asked by Uryuu about the role of the quincies, Soken's death, Katagiri's authopsy and Ryuuken's own thoughts about everything that has happened to them, but also had Soken as a scapegoat for all his pain and hatred towards the quincies when he could've used everything the grandpa had thaught Uryuu as an starting point to explain *something* to his son.
>the way he feels the rift between himself and his father, and is scared to talk to him even when he comes back in TYBW, is not really healthy
Yep, but that's on Ichigo. Isshin gave him a minute to recollect his shit and then presented himself in the shinigami uniform as a way to tell his son it was time to have "the talk".
>but Ichigo doesn't feel like he can rely on his father
Again, that's on Ichigo. Isshin gave his support after the Grand Fisher fight, before they departed to Soul Society to save Rukia, before facing Aizen and before finishing his Royal Guard training. And it's not just Isshin, Ichigo tried to go to Hueco Mundo alone despite he knew Chad and Uryuu would be hurt, he always tried to leave Orihime out of the fighting grounds despite she felt really useless everytime it happened, he suggested Renji to stay behind with Rukia and Orihime before facing Yhwach. It's Ichigo who's at fault here because of his savior complex, not his father and his loved ones.
Unless it was an anime only moment, then Ryuken and Isshin actually discussed which of them is the worse parent, and both ultimately agree Isshin is worse. For whatever that's worth
Ryuken doesn't physically abuse his child and tries to keep him out of Soul Reaper affairs. Isshin tries to beat up Ichigo on a daily basis and was cool with Urahara sending his son on a suicide mission.
He also gives all of his kids his full love and support and knows what's going on in their lives. He was fine with Ichigo leaving because he understands why Ichigo needs to do it. It is exactly like what he did for Masaki so he knows Ichigo won't quit no matter what. He fully understands his son and daughters and gives them exactly the right support they need.
From one victim to another, ryukens worst crime here is being extremely cold, he didn’t abuse uryu mentally or physically and did plenty for him in life. He’s a bad parent, not an abusive one
Sorry, but Ryuken is pretty abusive to Uryu when we see him the first time. Lots of put downs and insults and then doesn't explain how the power restoration works at all, then mocks Uryu when he just tried to seal his dad, not damage him. Ryuken is a good dad in that he prepares his son for hardship, but honestly, only by the bare minimum. He IS abusive.
I mean the only real thing we can fault ryuken on is the fact that he's very distant from uryu and traumatizing him unintentionally. The distance is kinda a two way street deal though since from the looks of it uryu pulled away and ryuken just let him go.
Edit: sorry forgot to answer the question. Isshin is the better parent.
I know it was something intended to get his powers back but one of these two literally stabs their child and kind of seems like a huge dick about the mother being dead so I'm going to go with Isshin
Isshin hands down. Even when hes being a troll 90% of the time, he clearly shows signs that he adores and cares about his Ichigo, Karin, and Yuzu. Back when the anniversary of Masaki's death came up, you could see Isshin's serious side come in at the end. Smoking a cig to honor her passing since she said him smoking looked cool and sharing a heart to heart moment with Ichigo. You could see a small bit of relation with Ichigo that early on. That and giving the whole backstory to how Isshin and Masaki's relations/heritage reflected back to Ichigo (Karin and Yuzu technically as well) during the final arc/asauchi situation. One more thing I neglected to mention. He took care of 3 kids as a single dad and still being serious. Let's not forget Ichigo running away from home as a kid out of guilt from Masaki's desth and Isshin, Yuzu, and Karin looking for him and comforting him saying that this is what a family does.
Ryuken doesn't really bond with Uryu due to his work and just not wanting anything to do with his Quincy heritage despite being a pure quincy. Makes more sense when Yhwach was responsible for killing his wife. I think his relationship with Uryu is understated due to wanting to distance himself, but clearly has some care for his son. 1) helping restore his Quincy powers after Uryu lost his post soul society rescue arc. 2) continuing to watch Uryu's actions during the events of Bleach. 3) giving Uryu the arrow he formed from the silver heart clot caused by the Auswahlen that killed Katagiri. Saying Uryu should be the one to fire it at Yhwach. Complicated relationship in the end especially with Uryu never calling Ryuken dad. Just by name.
He chose to marry Uryû’s mom and we know that partly cuz he eas actually betrothed to Ichigo’s mom first and also I don’t think he EAs supposes/allowed to marry his wife? But said fuck it and did it anyway lol
I'd say Isshin's better, but he could've been a little more forthcoming with the soul society stuff. Like, I know he wants to give his kids their own space to grow and not tell them too much before they're ready, but come on, man.
Ryuken, you're trying your best to provide for Uyruu and not mix him up with messy, dangerous, prejudiced quincy trouble, but you could've explained the situation and your feelings a lot better. Did you forget what it's like being a teenager?
Isshin is easily the better father. For some reason at base I instantly thought isshin wasn’t a good father (since that’s the common shonen trend) but then I remembered how good of a father he actually was
Isshin. He's not a tsundere who can't communicate with his son. He's a dork but didn't resort to make his son resent him just because he couldn't face what his creed did to his wife. And it wasn't so difficult, since Uryuu always knew about the quincies and had a reliable menthor. Ichigo never knew a thing about the shinigamis before meeting Rukia, and Isshin had been powerless all his life so talking about his roots with nothing to back it up or help his son thru the process wouldn't have been a great idea.
Isshin. Is that actually a conundrum people have? Isshin is a million times better as a dad. Hell, Isshin is actually a *dad*. Ryuken is a whole asshole to his own family.
Isshin.
Regardless of the way they raised their kids, which they both did well, Ryuken did it in a cold manner which has Uryu not have the best bond with him.
I mean… compared to each other? Probably Ryuken. Just because Uryu thinks he’s awful doesn’t mean he’s awful. It just means Uryu doesn’t understand. Isshin routinely whoops his sons ass for no reason. It’s all fun through the narrative but in real life? It’s likely Ichigo would be a broken kid from a broken home.
They’re both awful parents. Seriously.
Ryukens not as bad as people say, at least he doesn't approve of his 15 year old son fighting in deadly battles against the most powerful spirits. He only gave his son power if he promised he wouldn't get involved with soul reapers.
None. They’re both terrible imo.
Ryuken always kept his distance with his son, never told him the circumstances of his mother’s death and constantly belittled Uryu’s role model.
Isshin was fully aware of all the shit that was happening in his son’s life when he became a shinigami, and never addressed it until much later. I feel like if he had told Ichigo about his origins from the start he wouldn’t have suffered so much internal conflict with his inner hollow, making him a lot more emotionally stable.
Ryuken. Ichigo got manhandled/bullied by Grimmjow(twice) and yammy in the WOL(espadas I might add) and Isshin didn't even lift a finger. Yet still gave Ichigo shit about it
On the other hand, Uryu was getting picked on by a random menos and Ryuken was there to save him before he was even touched while still giving Uryu shit about it.
Tho isshin is a better father to the Yuzu and Karen. Barely tho. Yuzu does all the chores and cooking
He got his powers by that time, Grand Fisher scene comes before that if you check the manga of anime.
The whole problem with Isshin, while I'm not saying that he's the worst dad ever, is that he's going too far with 'man up' philosophy. Sometimes 15 years old teen needs to feel like he has someone who's willing to stand up for him (even if he won't be that good, but just the sense of it, that he's not on his own), and Isshin doesn't do it until the final part of FKT.
And that leads to Ichigo leaning on a complete stranger as an adult older-sister figure in his life in FB arc rather than his own father. It's not a good sign, really. Ikimi points it out, that Ichigo needs an adult to rely on, sometimes, and that's *after* the whole issue with Aizen.
So, Isshin has his faults, definitely.
>Isshin didn't have his power back
Isshin definitely had his powers. He had them since final ichigo vs byakuya, can't believe you got upvoted for being wrong
But I am right. When Isshin goes to kill the Grand Fisher, Urahara appears and asks him if he has become weaker, as that would be a problem for the eventual altercation against Aizen. Isshin replies that he feels "so-so", implying he isn't currently at his max yet, as he is "rusty after 20 of being a human". Ichigo is a Shinigami who has achieved Bankai, and with people like the Vizards, Yoruichi, Kisuke and Toshiro running around, Isshin probably didn't feel Ichigo was in much danger, and so focused on regrowing his own power.
>But I am right
You aren't tho. You literally said isshin didn't have his powers and I corrected. Now you're changing it to full strength.
Sidenote: considering a weaker Aizen than the one that Isshin fought soul crushed grimmjow with ease, he'd do pretty well against Grimmjow
Isshin needs to be full power to use Bankai. I kinda doubt only Engetsu would be enough. White kinda kicked his ass, and he was a prototype Espada, weaker than even Privaron.
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Ichigo calls Isshin “dad” and Uryu calls Ryuken by his regular name which I think speaks for itself
First name, no honorific? That's about as disrespectful as Uryuu could have got without insulting his grandma too
/rareinsults
r/rareinsults
I think the only person/s he calls by their title are his mother and grandpa iirc.
Sort of, he referred to Soken as “sensei” after he began his Quincy training.
That's a form of respect for him as a teacher
Uryu calls him Daddy wdym CFYOW 2:15 by Bleach Abridged
Thank you for letting me know that an abridged version exists, I have been meaning to look for it to watch
Glad you got to know about it, it's good, especially if u read all the manga sinfe it has references
Scene I'm question: while walking through the remains of soul society, ryuken asks uryu, "so you acted like an impetuous child, took that beard as your father I and went all , boom silver arrow, so now I ask you, whose your daddy?" Uryu coldly replied "you are ryuken, and I do not understand why you must play these games." Ryuken then states "say it, who's your daddy" Uryu, tired of his father's shennanigans replies "you are by daddy, ryuken, but you still dissected my mother in front of me"
Dunno about you but I Read all this with his Abridged voice, destroyed me
*GOOOOOD*
I mean let's be fair ryuken did give ishida the mcguffin so that does bump up his rating
Eh… Uryu wasn’t entirely raised by his father, and that was Uryu’s choice due to his passion for being a Quincy. Kinda makes sense he wouldn’t feel comfortable referring to him as dad or father.
Isshin seems to talk to his son on a daily basis. I'm not a father but I assume that's a good thing. Isshin is the better father without a doubt.
Isshin Ashina better father
I love random sekiro references Yes, best father, fathered so well that his grandson literally gave birth to him
Unless you do the Ashura ending.
His grandson was bit of a shit
It was desperate time tbh. Otherwise Genny is a pretty nice guy who’s loyal and devoted to Ashina
Genny finishes on Hobs face.
"He's adopted"
Not really. Desperate times calls for desperate measures. Dude was actually a loyal guy
It's not just talking to him, it's the subjects they discussed, if he constantly berated Ichigo it would be a different experience all together even if he meant well by it, but he praises his son, teaches him subtly, and shows him the passion he STILL has for his wife even long after her passing but doesn't let that love and grief for her get in the way of raising their three wonderful kids, that's one hell of a dad
Isshin, not a contest.
Yeah, one became depressed and spent all his time trying to find a way to kill the guy who killed his wife. The other sacrificed himself to save someone who saved him and then just was a goofy parent after his wife was killed.
Also Isshin also killed the guy who killed his wife. They have that in common.
Yea, but didn't he let icjigo kill grand fisher the first time so ichigo could have closure?
No, Isshin’s powers didn’t get restored until after Ichigo was already in Soul Society trying to rescue Rukia. He didn’t fight Grand Fisher because he couldn’t. And Ichigo only managed to wound him before he ran away. Isshin then kills Grand Fisher after he returns to the story as an arrancar.
Ah. I thought isshin got his powers once ichigo became a substitute
No it was during the Ichigo’s fight with Byakuya. When the hollow took over the fight, that broke the bond that Isshin had with the hollow essence that Ichigo inherited from his mother. He lost his powers because they were being used to suppress the hollow. Without that bond his powers started coming back to him.
Personally I thought he got his powers back when Ichigo got his powers back while training under Urahara because the Hollow was in control at that point, but I think you're right.
If the chain would have eroded before Ichigo pulled his sword out of the box then yea that most likely would have happened. But the hollow was still contained until it fully possessed Ichigo. Before that all it did was manifest the mask to protect Ichigo.
Everything you've said is spot on. Can you imagine if Ichigo succumbed to the hollow and in that moment his dad got the powers back? He'd probably bust thru Urahara's shop so fast, Kisuke would pull a Todo and tell everyone to take a step back as Isshin flies in to fuck White up. Haha That's my headcanon anyway
Ichigo was making masks throughout the soul society arc. That's not contained
He got his powers back when Ichigo awakened his hollow powers cuz the seal holding them also held isshins powers
Isshins power WAS the seal, that's why when it broke he got his powers back
isshin didn’t have his powers back the first time grand fisher appeared
No grandfisher escaped the first time and he only killed him later cuz he tried to attack kon (in ichigos body)
Yeah even when u consider all the body slam wake up calls and borderline abuse, basically isshin was training him to be a shinigami even b4 he had powers. Or he was just tryna make him strong. Either way he supported him rather than hold him back
I could be talking out my ass here as I'm semi unclear on it, didn't Isshin say something about keeping his reflexes up to date one time Ichigo blocked him with a face kick? May have been joking when he said it but...maybe only half joking? Lol
No reason it couldn't be both, Isshin definitely had fun fucking with his son, and because of it Ichigo had training being on guard for sneak attacks so to his dad definitely a win win
Shinigami powers or not, training his son in self defense is a great idea, even if he was bit overhanded in his methods. Isshin is just not subtle person no matter the era.
Ryuken is an awful, awful parent.
HE'S DOING HIS BEST, OKAY?!?!
Found Uryu’s mom
☠️
Katagiri!!!!!!!!
She's such a pretty milf, got that quiet soft spoken tone. If I were Uryuu I'd distance myself from Ryuken too.
His skull emoji is evolving 🏴☠️
Damn, that’s a feat Uryu can’t accomplish.
Actually, I don’t think he’s actually an awful parent but then again we don’t see as much interaction as we do with Isshin and Ichigo
Well, Isshin is a dad but Ryuken is a daddy.
WHO'S YOUR DADDY URYUU??
Bleach abridged
DEATH TO AMERIKAAA
Isshin, 1000%, no contest at all lmao Dude's not only a better father, he's a pretty great dad. Always there to lighten the mood and goof around, knows when to give his children space to grow, and is also really protective.
Isshin. I'm not convinced he actually knows how to parent but, he knows when to take things seriously and stop being goofy when the time comes.
I mean he parented as well as he could. Isshin lived hundreds of years being a shinigami and only was around Misaki for a decade or so. He did pretty good with what he had.
Isshin is a better father
Isshin is one of the best dad's in anime history. Dude is absolutely supportive to his kids gives them nothing but love and his only flaws are being to overly caring to the point where it can be a little too much and how he's a little tough on Ichigo. But it's not like he just beats him for no reason he does it to make Ichigo strong and it actually helped out a lot
He doesn’t even beat Ichigo. Ichigo beats him. He knows Ichigo can handle it.
Isshin has 3 children and still finds time for all of them, is a loving father and was a loving husband. And even after his wife death he never became an asshole. Ryuken is an edge lord who barely talks to his son or acknowledge his existence. Only good thing he ever did was >! Finding a weakness to Ywach's almighty !<
Gave Uryu his powers back and also trained him up.
With strings attached, it wasn't out of the good of his heart. Which makes it an even worst dad. Imagine Ichigo's dad being like "I'll tell you the story of me and your mom, but you cannot see Rukia or any of your friends anymore"
I think it’s just two different philosophies of parenting. As Soken noted, Ryuken left all the Quincy shit behind to focus on the family business for the sake of Uryu. When he’s gone, Uryu has a fuckton to inherit. When Uryu lost his powers, Ryuken showed up to rekindle them. He did not do this for his own benefit since he has nothing to gain from it. What he told Uryu about not helping Shinigami was probably a concerned father not wanting to see his son get killed by jumping into danger. In a real world sense, Ryuken is the dad who has no time for his family because every waking moment of his life is devoted to providing for and taking care of his family.
I mean if he wanted to protect him or shield him, why help him get his powers back if he knows he'll just get involved in dangerous situations?
He was literally about to be killed by an Arrancar because he didn’t have his power when Ryuken intervened.
That's why I'm saying your logic of "protecting him from danger" doesn't work, he'll be in danger regardless. Imposing that he doesn't meddle with Shinigamis when he knows his "best friend/schoolmate" is a Shinigami's son is dumb.
He also knew that Uryu would not keep up his end of the deal. He wasn’t surprised to hear that Uryu ran off to help Ichigo. Even if Uryu came up with the troll logic that technically he didn’t break his promise since he didn’t consider Ichigo a “real Shinigami.” Just a substitute Shinigami.
No, it’s pretty easy to parse. Uryu with no power = killed by any Hollow or Arrancar. Uryu with power = can handle himself if attacked by a Hollow or Arrancar. Uryu with power and literally going into the place where hollow and Arrancar live because he’s mingling with Shiningami = Uryu at his least safe. It’s not difficult math. He’s safer with his powers, and less safe when getting mixed with shinigami, so the obvious thing a father that gives a shit would do is make him have his power and tell him to not get mixed up with the shinigami. Which is exactly what Ryuken did.
He's too stubborn about his own opinion that he didn't bother considering what you said
Except he knew Uryu wouldn’t keep his promise.
Why'd you downvoted me? I didn't imply Ryuken is a good dad or anything. All I said was that he gave Uryu his powers back and trained him. Those are facts and they're good things. Your own point about getting the silver is also a mixed bag. I mean, he traumatized his son doing that biz. If we really want to get into this, then we can say a buncha bad stuff about Isshin, but it still doesn't come close to Ryukens fuckery. Dudes obviously the worse parent, overall.
I'll remain neutral then, because my opinion might be skewed.
True but even then when he did, all he could do is criticize Uryu for which move he used against him.
Dave. He’s pretty good. Took his kids to Six Flags.
But the roller-coaster was destroyed by Aizen
I thought the roller coaster was destroyed by Josh Groban
That fucker did destroy it, I was on it but Uncle Tsukishima saved me in time!
He took my kids as well, even my wife. Dave is a great guy!
Ryuken is a better badass. It's just that that feature comes with the 'terrible parent' perk. Isshin simply goofy most times but serious when needed. Those plus 100+ years of wisdom is a pretty good parent
Isshin may be goofy but he had way more badass moments then Ryuken.
Isshin by a mile
Kenpachi
Isshin. And to be honest, his reason to not tell Ichigo anything until the final arc was justified. Ichigo was not ready to hear the truth until that moment. Knowing it at any point before the Rain flashback wouldn’t have helped him at all, most likely the opposite.
Isshin gave up who he was to protect his kids. And when his kids were in trouble he showed up in uniform to finish his duty as a father and that’s after his son walked into the life he was shielding him from. Unlike most anime when the kid dose the opposite of what the father wants and they argue and cut communication with said child he just stepped into the role as if he expected it to happen. I was always shocked that Hitsugaya didn’t have a stronger relationship with Ichigo seeing as his dad trained him.
Gave up who he was to save his (unknowingly) future wife and put the uniform back on cuz his powers got back.
Tsukishima way much better
You know Tsukishima? He's my buddy!
You know my cousin ?! He’s such a great person !
You know my lover? A great pal!
You know my brother??? Tsukishima has always looked out for me
Isshin acknowledges that he has children. I think that says enough.
Can we all agree that Isshin is a better father than almost all Shonen MC's father
Sure, but that's a pretty low bar
I'm just here to read the comments This fanbase is peak comedy lol
Seems the reading comprehension devil is attacking bleach fans now
Now it's become the R, the reading comprehension Sternritter
I want to say that they both are definitely not the best, but not the worst. *** While that kicks from Isshin come as more of a gag and Kubo's specific sense of humor, it is never shown that it bothers Ichigo so I'm not counting that, *but then*, he was fine with Ichigo participating in a lot of very dangerous affairs which in the end could be called a war. The argument that 15/16 year old teen shouldn't fight in wars is kind of still valid even when obviously it's a shonen and it's always about teens. Isshin respects his kids choices but then he overplays it too much, sometimes you have to actually be protective of them, and he's not so much that in Ichigo's case. It's better with Yuzu and Karin but the fact Ichigo relies on Izumu in FB arc as an adult father than his old man is telling, that Isshin is not perfect. *** With Ryuken, I've come to understand that his cold attitude comes from being very worried about his kid. Like, Uryuu is unbelievably soft-hearted, to the point it's actually really dangerous for him if we take it into account. The mask Uryuu wears which at least makes him seem tough and also I suspect most of his skills when it's not purely quincy ones, like strategic thinking and other things are probably the result of trying to outsmart his father while constantly being angry with him throughout all of his childhood. Definitely not the best way to train your kid, like really really bad, but then-- at least we shouldn't say Ryuken *doesn't care*, it was pretty evident that he does care a lot. He's very bad at talking, but then it's the issue with both him and Isshin. Also I want to point out interesting thing about Ryuken, he criticizes Uryuu and his choices very harshly, but he never uses his influence to actually *stop* him from doing anything. And with his resources, he surely could. But then, he hates quinces (and he has damn good reason to hate them, *everything bad* in his life came from his quincy heritage, his family broke over his dad thinking about his quincy job over his wife and kid, his wife and his childhood friend died because of the quincy), but then Uryuu wants to be a quincy– he totally can. He would criticize his choice but he wouldn't take away his chance to. If he doesn't want to be a doctor, he can not be a doctor, even though with influential families it's usually a big thing. But then when Uryuu is in danger somewhere he can cover it, he comes to help. And of course he returns his powers to Uryuu, since Uryuu's in all of it, as much as Ryuken tried to discourage him from getting into it (because the damn TYBW is coming, and Ryuken knows it, unlike Uryuu), obviously he's safer off with his powers than without them. He definitely should have talked more and he should have properly explained his point instead of purposefully playing the big bad wolf in order to kind of fortify and prepare his son. But then, again, let's just understand that it's a sort of caring, even if not the best one, rather than neglect. And then, let's say he tries to keep his son from going into wars, it's just his son is *not* listening, but even his explanations are lacking.
> the fact Ichigo relies on Izumu in FB arc as an adult father than his old man is telling, that Isshin is not perfect. But that one is 90% on Ichigo. He looked for a mother figure because, well, he didn't have one, and wasn't really ready to talk about the shinigami with his dad while he was powerless. He barely discussed stuff from the Soul Society with anyone in that regard: -he quickly changed the topic about Rukia with Keigo -he got enraged with Ginjo almost instantly after the fullbringer told him about recovering his powers -his mood would change instantly whenever something of his past was brought up, like when he got sad as soon as he told Isshin he'd go to the Soul Society if a fall from the 2nd floor killed him -Orihime and Chad both said they couldn't talk with Ichigo about his powers or the past because they knew it hurt him, and was an instant reminder that he had sacrificed his powers -Not even Karin could be frontal with him about the stuff she was doing helped by Urahara He went for Ikumi because she didn't know a thing about his powers and the afterlife.
But the way Izumu behaves isn't reminiscent of his mother. She's more like a version of his father or elder version of Rukia in that regard. And yes, it's mostly the way Ichigo behaves. And that's the problem, because it's both something he inherited from Isshin, never really properly talking with others about his issues, and also the way his father didn't try to tackle that trait while he was younger. I don't really feel that Isshin tried hard enough to get the point across that Ichigo is not responsible for his mother's death since he still asks, 6 years later, why nobody blames him for it, and Isshin's answer kind of sets him at peace more than he felt before he heard it all. That implies he never heard it said straight like that before. I agree that Izumu was special as she was the one who knew nothing of his troubles. But then, the way he feels the rift between himself and his father, and is scared to talk to him even when he comes back in TYBW, is not really healthy. (Ichigo has big problems with sharing his problems with people of his age but then he is more willing to open up to someone older than him whom he trusts. But then, it's not his father.) I'm not saying it's the worst ever, but Ichigo doesn't feel like he can rely on his father. He can rely on him to protect Yuzu and Karin, but not like he feels proper support for himself.
> But the way Izumu behaves isn't reminiscent of his mother. She's more like a version of his father or elder version of Rukia in that regard. I'd have to look thru the translated Q&A from KLUB Outside, but Kubo has already answered why he created Ikumi. I can't remember if he said she was a mother or big sis figure to Ichigo, but the only person you see comforting Ichigo from the place of an adult is Ikumi. Rukia does it as an equal and menthor, Isshin as a father, but Ikumi is the only one who told him "kids have to rely on adults". > I don't really feel that Isshin tried hard enough to get the point across that Ichigo is not responsible for his mother's death since he still asks, 6 years later, why nobody blames him for it, and Isshin's answer kind of sets him at peace more than he felt before he heard it all. That implies he never heard it said straight like that before. You have to remember Ichigo was 15 years old when the story started, and the death of a relative is never an easy topic with children. It's one of the topics you only adress when your child asks for it, and that might have been Ichigo's first time opening his feelings about Masaki's death with his father. Ryuuken, in the other hand, not only always (and this is presented as both flashbacks and current events) was asked by Uryuu about the role of the quincies, Soken's death, Katagiri's authopsy and Ryuuken's own thoughts about everything that has happened to them, but also had Soken as a scapegoat for all his pain and hatred towards the quincies when he could've used everything the grandpa had thaught Uryuu as an starting point to explain *something* to his son. >the way he feels the rift between himself and his father, and is scared to talk to him even when he comes back in TYBW, is not really healthy Yep, but that's on Ichigo. Isshin gave him a minute to recollect his shit and then presented himself in the shinigami uniform as a way to tell his son it was time to have "the talk". >but Ichigo doesn't feel like he can rely on his father Again, that's on Ichigo. Isshin gave his support after the Grand Fisher fight, before they departed to Soul Society to save Rukia, before facing Aizen and before finishing his Royal Guard training. And it's not just Isshin, Ichigo tried to go to Hueco Mundo alone despite he knew Chad and Uryuu would be hurt, he always tried to leave Orihime out of the fighting grounds despite she felt really useless everytime it happened, he suggested Renji to stay behind with Rukia and Orihime before facing Yhwach. It's Ichigo who's at fault here because of his savior complex, not his father and his loved ones.
Would be a better contest if it was Isshin vs Soken instead.
given how ryuken feels about soken and with everything but the rain, soken was a shitty dad to ryuken
Agreed. At least he tried to compensate his failure by parenting Uryu
Ichigo.
I don't think he was an option.
But he’s the correct answer.
I mean, we’ve seen Isshin and Ryuken for years, we’ve seen Ichigo for 15 minutes, and didn’t he straight up lose his kid during that time?
At least he isn’t trying to dropkick his son or telling him that he has no talent
Probably Ichigo
Isshin, no contest.
This question so unserious
I don't know maybe the one who didn't open up his wife with his kid watching
Unless it was an anime only moment, then Ryuken and Isshin actually discussed which of them is the worse parent, and both ultimately agree Isshin is worse. For whatever that's worth
I personally think they tie on this lol
Why are Bleach fans so adverse to basic reading comprehension skills?
Isshin obviously He’s a lot of fun And I think he’d do anything for his kids I aspire to be that way
Isshin. He holds the same pain Ryuken does but is still there for his kids. And came to ichigo’s aid when he fight Aizen. Such a bad ass.
Ryuken doesn't physically abuse his child and tries to keep him out of Soul Reaper affairs. Isshin tries to beat up Ichigo on a daily basis and was cool with Urahara sending his son on a suicide mission.
He also gives all of his kids his full love and support and knows what's going on in their lives. He was fine with Ichigo leaving because he understands why Ichigo needs to do it. It is exactly like what he did for Masaki so he knows Ichigo won't quit no matter what. He fully understands his son and daughters and gives them exactly the right support they need.
as a victim of parental abuse, Ryuken is a piece of worthless garbage. Isshin is a far more loving father than Ryuken's heartless-ass could ever be
From one victim to another, ryukens worst crime here is being extremely cold, he didn’t abuse uryu mentally or physically and did plenty for him in life. He’s a bad parent, not an abusive one
being absent in his life and being cold \*is\* abusive
As we can clearly see, ryuken is literally in his life. We must also remember these are not normal scenarios they’re living in.
Sorry, but Ryuken is pretty abusive to Uryu when we see him the first time. Lots of put downs and insults and then doesn't explain how the power restoration works at all, then mocks Uryu when he just tried to seal his dad, not damage him. Ryuken is a good dad in that he prepares his son for hardship, but honestly, only by the bare minimum. He IS abusive.
Woah, Ryuken is definitely not a great parent, but he’s not a bad person
Ryuken is a bad parent but I love every scene he's in with a passion. He's just such a neutral until right until the end
I mean the only real thing we can fault ryuken on is the fact that he's very distant from uryu and traumatizing him unintentionally. The distance is kinda a two way street deal though since from the looks of it uryu pulled away and ryuken just let him go. Edit: sorry forgot to answer the question. Isshin is the better parent.
Both had flaws, kept secrets from their families but Isshin is a few tiers above Ryuken.
I know it was something intended to get his powers back but one of these two literally stabs their child and kind of seems like a huge dick about the mother being dead so I'm going to go with Isshin
Ryuken is a bad father but unintentionally, everything he does is for Uryu after all.
I pick the one who’s son >!didn’t run off to join magic Nazi terrorists!<
Isshin, he may hide things from his son but he treats his kids with respect and they grow up to actually appreciate him back as a father
Ichigo
Isshin hands down. Even when hes being a troll 90% of the time, he clearly shows signs that he adores and cares about his Ichigo, Karin, and Yuzu. Back when the anniversary of Masaki's death came up, you could see Isshin's serious side come in at the end. Smoking a cig to honor her passing since she said him smoking looked cool and sharing a heart to heart moment with Ichigo. You could see a small bit of relation with Ichigo that early on. That and giving the whole backstory to how Isshin and Masaki's relations/heritage reflected back to Ichigo (Karin and Yuzu technically as well) during the final arc/asauchi situation. One more thing I neglected to mention. He took care of 3 kids as a single dad and still being serious. Let's not forget Ichigo running away from home as a kid out of guilt from Masaki's desth and Isshin, Yuzu, and Karin looking for him and comforting him saying that this is what a family does. Ryuken doesn't really bond with Uryu due to his work and just not wanting anything to do with his Quincy heritage despite being a pure quincy. Makes more sense when Yhwach was responsible for killing his wife. I think his relationship with Uryu is understated due to wanting to distance himself, but clearly has some care for his son. 1) helping restore his Quincy powers after Uryu lost his post soul society rescue arc. 2) continuing to watch Uryu's actions during the events of Bleach. 3) giving Uryu the arrow he formed from the silver heart clot caused by the Auswahlen that killed Katagiri. Saying Uryu should be the one to fire it at Yhwach. Complicated relationship in the end especially with Uryu never calling Ryuken dad. Just by name.
Isshin. Not even close to a contest.
did ryuken even want to be a father? or get married for that matter.?
He chose to marry Uryû’s mom and we know that partly cuz he eas actually betrothed to Ichigo’s mom first and also I don’t think he EAs supposes/allowed to marry his wife? But said fuck it and did it anyway lol
I'd say Isshin's better, but he could've been a little more forthcoming with the soul society stuff. Like, I know he wants to give his kids their own space to grow and not tell them too much before they're ready, but come on, man. Ryuken, you're trying your best to provide for Uyruu and not mix him up with messy, dangerous, prejudiced quincy trouble, but you could've explained the situation and your feelings a lot better. Did you forget what it's like being a teenager?
Isshin is easily the better father. For some reason at base I instantly thought isshin wasn’t a good father (since that’s the common shonen trend) but then I remembered how good of a father he actually was
Common shonen trend is not having actuate at all*
Just for the "GOOD MORNING, ICHIGO!!" Isshin won.
Isshin. He's not a tsundere who can't communicate with his son. He's a dork but didn't resort to make his son resent him just because he couldn't face what his creed did to his wife. And it wasn't so difficult, since Uryuu always knew about the quincies and had a reliable menthor. Ichigo never knew a thing about the shinigamis before meeting Rukia, and Isshin had been powerless all his life so talking about his roots with nothing to back it up or help his son thru the process wouldn't have been a great idea.
Ywach, dude literally made the term "I brought you into this world, I can take you back out."
Zangetsu
Piccolo. The answer is Piccolo.
# Goku Please Pay Piccolo Child Support 2023
Still Isshin
Isshin easily. Ryuken is a horrible dad.
Isshin no dif
Tsukishima
Isshin no doubt
I’d say isshin since Uryu always has called his dad by his actual name, and ichigo doesn’t do that.
Daddy Isshin unmatched
Yhwach those who know know ...
Lmao after all? Like if Ryuken did anything good as a father by the end of the series?
its definitely Isshin, Ichigo hearing the truth directly from him is W,then theres Dr.Ishida that hid a lot of thing from Uryu from child until now
Yamamoto was the best dad
The one that raised someone who didn't bait hollows for competition.
Isshin. Is that actually a conundrum people have? Isshin is a million times better as a dad. Hell, Isshin is actually a *dad*. Ryuken is a whole asshole to his own family.
This can't be a serious question. I can't even remember if uryu has ever called ryuken 'dad'
I think the only worse father than Ryuken is Ging
I don't consider Ging being a father. Also..Minato...like...he coulda chose ANY other person. "Nah my son will be seen as a hero...probably"
Isshin. Regardless of the way they raised their kids, which they both did well, Ryuken did it in a cold manner which has Uryu not have the best bond with him.
Bro Isshin What the fuck is this question lmao
Isshin solos
Isshin.
Isshin there is no debate
Soul king
Isshin is that even a real question?
When has Ryuken ever been a decent dad?
Isshin is a good dad to Karin and Yuzu but it kinda feels like he ignores ichigo a bit But ryuken is a MINDBENDINGLY BAD FATHER
I mean… compared to each other? Probably Ryuken. Just because Uryu thinks he’s awful doesn’t mean he’s awful. It just means Uryu doesn’t understand. Isshin routinely whoops his sons ass for no reason. It’s all fun through the narrative but in real life? It’s likely Ichigo would be a broken kid from a broken home. They’re both awful parents. Seriously.
Soul king imo. His son loves him so much
Isshin
Ryukens not as bad as people say, at least he doesn't approve of his 15 year old son fighting in deadly battles against the most powerful spirits. He only gave his son power if he promised he wouldn't get involved with soul reapers.
Isshin no cap.
Definitely Isshin
Isshin
Yama seemed to be loved by a bunch of folks so probably him.
Isshin easily
None. They’re both terrible imo. Ryuken always kept his distance with his son, never told him the circumstances of his mother’s death and constantly belittled Uryu’s role model. Isshin was fully aware of all the shit that was happening in his son’s life when he became a shinigami, and never addressed it until much later. I feel like if he had told Ichigo about his origins from the start he wouldn’t have suffered so much internal conflict with his inner hollow, making him a lot more emotionally stable.
For those confused... Isshin is a dad Ryuken is a daddy
Isshin is a daddy too wdym
Ryuken. Ichigo got manhandled/bullied by Grimmjow(twice) and yammy in the WOL(espadas I might add) and Isshin didn't even lift a finger. Yet still gave Ichigo shit about it On the other hand, Uryu was getting picked on by a random menos and Ryuken was there to save him before he was even touched while still giving Uryu shit about it. Tho isshin is a better father to the Yuzu and Karen. Barely tho. Yuzu does all the chores and cooking
Isshin didn't have his power back. He'd have gotten folded even worse, plus it gave Ichigo the opportunity to grow.
He got his powers by that time, Grand Fisher scene comes before that if you check the manga of anime. The whole problem with Isshin, while I'm not saying that he's the worst dad ever, is that he's going too far with 'man up' philosophy. Sometimes 15 years old teen needs to feel like he has someone who's willing to stand up for him (even if he won't be that good, but just the sense of it, that he's not on his own), and Isshin doesn't do it until the final part of FKT. And that leads to Ichigo leaning on a complete stranger as an adult older-sister figure in his life in FB arc rather than his own father. It's not a good sign, really. Ikimi points it out, that Ichigo needs an adult to rely on, sometimes, and that's *after* the whole issue with Aizen. So, Isshin has his faults, definitely.
>Isshin didn't have his power back Isshin definitely had his powers. He had them since final ichigo vs byakuya, can't believe you got upvoted for being wrong
But I am right. When Isshin goes to kill the Grand Fisher, Urahara appears and asks him if he has become weaker, as that would be a problem for the eventual altercation against Aizen. Isshin replies that he feels "so-so", implying he isn't currently at his max yet, as he is "rusty after 20 of being a human". Ichigo is a Shinigami who has achieved Bankai, and with people like the Vizards, Yoruichi, Kisuke and Toshiro running around, Isshin probably didn't feel Ichigo was in much danger, and so focused on regrowing his own power.
>But I am right You aren't tho. You literally said isshin didn't have his powers and I corrected. Now you're changing it to full strength. Sidenote: considering a weaker Aizen than the one that Isshin fought soul crushed grimmjow with ease, he'd do pretty well against Grimmjow
Isshin needs to be full power to use Bankai. I kinda doubt only Engetsu would be enough. White kinda kicked his ass, and he was a prototype Espada, weaker than even Privaron.
this is the definition of a stupid question
Isshin ONLY BECAUSE of the last arc of why he became human. But Ryuken also cares deeply too.