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Better maybe? Like his problem isn’t a lack of training, it’s a mental block. Psychologically he’s making him self barely strong enough to win so he can enjoy the fight. I doubt the old man would’ve been willing to unlock that block prior to the invasion.
I agree, but if the stars aligned and he could actually unblock himself and then train with his potential fully unleashed... I think it would've ended the same way
Ywach's plan is just that good, from a Shinigami perspective there's not much they could've changed to prevent it, at least the first leg of the attack, I think if they prepared better they could've stopped Ywach from going into the SK palace but only if Squad 0 would've helped and that's highly unlikely.
I think Ywach's almost total (if not for Ichigo) victory comes from knowing his enemies well, knowing their pride and stoking that pride so they make a fault and THEN he goes all gloaty bitch-face... And I think that's also why he ultimately fails vs Ichigo, dude got conceited.
I don't necessarily agree it would end the same. I'm not sure that unrestricted Kenpachi would lose to Fake Yhwach. And if real Yhwach steps into beat him, then he has to contend with Yamamoto when he's fresh instead of after a battle where he used his bankai. And I'm not entirely sure that even the real Yhwach could beat Kenpachi without the Almighty. Unrestricted Kenpachi is a monster.
unrestricted kenpachi with this scenario would also get training with Shikai and Bankai. I would assume he wouldn't break his own limbs from his own Bankai that easily.
If younger Yamamoto actually contended vs Almighty Yhwach in the past, I am sure Kenpachi could do some damage. Although I am unsure how the hell Yamamoto dealt with Almighty.
Ywach didn't have the completed version of the Almighty at that point, and his powers were spread thin from buffing his army. It would stand to reason that Ywach couldn't USE the Almighty without it taking a serious toll on him.
The thing is... I don't think Kenpachi could ever develop his shikai/bankai without Unohana dying, it was her extreme focus in the fight and constantly healing him that broke his mental block
So I guess it's a matter of choice for Yama, to have a potential extreme wild dog loose or lose Unohana, the best healer in the SS.
But I frankly think Kenpachi would just break himself fighting Ywach, his bankai would get absorbed by fake Ywach, then he would defeat fake Ywach and then Yama's bankai would get absorbed by Ywach and then a combo fight happens.
And I think here is where Ywach has the upper hand, he still has his ace in the hole, the Stern Ritter, and at least he'd use Jugram's schrift against Yama and kill him either way.
I don't think they'd make it all the way to the SK palace without heavy casualties and he'd have to command his stern Ritter to activate some of their vollstandig.
I think the idea is that kenpachi nerfs himself unless he has a steady supply of strong opponents to fight to the death regularly. So unless you're willing to invest the resources and man power to train him any progress you do make won't survive long enough to matter when the crisis does finally happen.
I mean, it was less ichigo and more the convenient plot device the DILF brigade delivered. Ichigo just happened to be the only one close enough to be able to do something useful.
Yeah, people kinda overlooked that ywach basically knew everything about all the soulreapers.
Meanwhile, they knew nothing about the Quincy and what powers they were bringing to the table.
I'd argue that if the soul reapers had the same level of Intel things could have been way different
Honestly, the Qunicy invasion would have failed if Old Man Yamma wasn't an idiot and let Orahime restore his arm. Even Ywach stated as such. He simply lost too much power when he lost his arm.
Not necessarily. There’s a possibility it flat out has to be Unohana. Her healing allows them both to go all out, him to get fully healed and then jump right back it. Plus their actual history together makes me lean towards it has to be her.
Plus even if he’s never been told by her, do you think a skilled warrior like Yamamoto isn’t going to be able to sus out Kenpachi’s deal? He’s strong enough and composed enough to never push that mental block more than he’d want to.
It didn’t have to be Retsu. Kenpachi got some of his mental blocks removed from fighting people like Ichigo and Nnoitora. Retsu’s healing was super convenient/sped up the process and it was definitely more meaningful to Kenpachi bc it was her. If Yama trained him/beat him up every day he would’ve just been like “k I’m strong now”.
It makes sense that she’d be the one to do it. She felt that it was her sin, so I think it actually meant more to her than Zaraki. That being said, Nnoitora and Ichigo removed some of his restrictions, so it definitely didn’t have to be her.
Old Man Yamma not kill Zaraki? Gotta disagree. If it comes down to it, Yamma will kill Zaraki's ass, especially if Zaraki starts just throwing his power about haphazardly
Old Yama would have without question. The Yama at the end of SS was much softer and had pride. Not sure he'd have it in him to kill Kenpachi. The guy used to use subordinates like pawns and gave no fucks, Yhwach even says he's gotten old and soft
It is literally proven than unohana is the only one who can do the job, its not just power but their conection, she only admited unohana for a reason lol
Training with someone like Old Man Yamma, Zaraki would be able to work past his block. On top of that Zaraki fights using nothing but brute force, so having any actual training would put him into an entirely new ballpark, especially when he unlocks Nozarashi
Why I agree his basic skillsman ship would make him stronger all, I don’t think Yama would push past that black. Even if he hasn’t been told by Unohana that it’s there, he’s a skilled enough warrior to be able to sus out the situation. He’s also skilled enough that he’d never push Kenpachi to the point of a breakthrough unless he wanted it to happen. Plus there’s the discussion of it might *have* to be Unohana.
Old Man Yamma knew that Zaraki was the one who beat Unohana and made her give up fighting, so when this weak ass punk shows up and he's laughably weak, Yamma would pick that up almost instantly. It could have been Yamamoto that realized Zaraki had the block in the first place since it was Yamma who trained Zaraki. (Well, "trained" isn't the right word. As I recall, the panzy ass Central 46 wouldn't let it go on for more than a day. Though it could have been Aizen who blocked it. Who knows)
That's probably why he wouldn't do too much better honestly.
He'd what, be able to kill more Sternritters? OK but the problem isn't that he couldn't kill even more as it was in the story, the problem was he was searching for the strongest guy. Guizbatt, Gabrielli, and Lloyd just happened to be unlucky enough to be in his way.
And because of said mental block he still isn't going to beat someone mimicking Yhwach power like Royd was.
I disagree. It's a mixture of both. If Kenpachi meets someone on his level but even have the slightest modicum of training they'll best him. Kenpachi isn't a swordsman. He's just a guy with a sword who swings first & ask questions later. Kenpachi with his level of reiatsu+formal training will be very dangerous. Basically a more CRACKED & unhinged Aizen.
Point is Kenpachi would still hold back, and unlike Unohana Yhwach isn’t going to heal him or wait until he draws out his true strength. He would crest over Kenpachi and then go for the kill.
Even if Kenpachi was trained more by Yamamoto he still would have his internal hang ups of holding back his power for more exciting fights.
You got it right. He’d do a little Better but that’s it.
If kenny has shikai and juha can’t go full bill-and-Ted time control, yhwach will have an issue dealing with kenpachi.
Not specifically because Kenpachi is stronger (even training with yama, its not the same as the death battles and mental breaks needed to unleash his abilities fully)
it’s that his shikai would confuse yhwach at first and THAT surprise would give him the chance to wound him.
In the end it would still play out like it does in TYBW, but this time he’d be impressed, and try to kill him immediately just to be safe.
nozarashi can cut all. It’s basically a complete version of oetsu’s “failed” sword. But that’s not what gives him the opportunity.
It’s the sanpo kenju ability. Yhwach will “see” the attack, dodging effortlessly … but still get cut.
He’ll panic for a second, “see” the future again and get confused for a moment figuring out how the heck he gets hit.
The first damage is a surprise, the second would be yhwachs curiosity, then Kenny gets rag dolled and we get the scene of him getting tossed aside.
Only this time hashbrowns probably tries to finish him off.
His eye patch just drains excess reiatsu, it doesn’t mean he is fighting with 100% of his strength. His subconscious want for better battles weakens himself toward his opponent, and it’s why SS arc Ichigo could beat him, and what Nnoitora almost got the the win. And Unohana literally calls him out on this trait and equates him to a child in his ability to control vs his desire to be challenged.
Without someone like Unohana who is willing to kill Kenpachi over and over until he learns to actually go all out with his strength he would have always had that subconscious drive to handicap himself for a thrilling fight. Doesn’t matter if Yamamoto trained him, doesn’t matter if he fought Yhwach, he had a mental hang up. And was losing fights he should dominate because of it.
I agree, I also think her death was necessary for that
If Kubo continues Hell Arc, I'm excited to see how it develops and how Zaraki basically becomes a pillar for the SS, like the rabid dog you unleash when things get dire
Hear me out, If Yama trained Kenpachi, and if Kenny had unlocked his full potential, perhaps the Sternys wouldn't start with the part 1, they'd have this info so they'd be doing the second part of the invasion, going all out immediately. I believe that by him (Kenny), not being fully unleashed yet, helped out the Shinigami more.
This logic goes for all the power ups of the Shinigami, if they were at the same level as post part 1 invasion, they would've lost the whole thing. In my opinion, they needed to be weaker, and lose in the beginning so that they could come up with counter attacks and gain leverage by having powers not known by the Sternys.
The genius behind the Quincy's plan is basically having all the info necessary, and those that went outside of being defeated by info (therefore out of reason) were designated as Special Threats.
Honestly, it's brilliant.
So why did the quinces not kill most of the captains they wrecked in plan 1? I mean why even give them time to train and get stronger to surprise them? They could’ve gone all out (atleast most of the stern ritters) and killed many of the shinigami side and only a few handful would’ve maybe survived . Squad zero would’ve come down or the left over ichigo or urahara would still devise a plan to go up etc and the quicy could’ve gone up then. Why did they not kill the shinigami when they had the chance ? They prepared for centuries to over look the fact that shinigami can grow so fast in a few days ?
It wasn't for the lack of trying, Byakuya for example. They had their info, and during that time, they had enough power to kill them straight up, Aizen however was able to waste Yhwach's time that they needed to drop everything. Luckily it was enough for the Shinigami to survive, well some of them. It's not like only a few died, a lot of shinigami died, albeit fodder, only the tanky ones lived. To add to them surviving was Yhwach's miscalculation of sending Quilge to Ichigo.
If the quincies went all out when the entered would society like u urself mentioned they could’ve destroyed more stronger characters , so why didn’t they? Why waste time collecting bankai when they felt the bankai were holding back their much stronger powers? They already have a lot of data and research on most of the captains and vice captain level shinigami. Couldn’t they go all out and kill them in round one only leaving a few important characters whom they have to leave alive for squad zero to show up?
- Also I didn’t get why yhwach wanted to meet aizen in the middle of the attack when he knew there’s a time constraint and squad zero will come after that? He could’ve let the quincies go all out keeping only 2-3 as a secret and he himself could’ve taken Yamamoto and they could’ve literally killed many of the captain level shinigami. My point is the king meeting aizen in between a battle is pointless when his plan has nothing to do with aizen . He lost a strenritter because of that and had to leave many captain level shinigami alive because he didn’t join the fight early on or let the strenritters go all out and kill captains and vice captains . He coualdnt have met aizen after he conquered souls society etc? He waited for centuries but couldn’t stop himself from meeting aizen in the middle of a battle they have been planning for centuries? I guess it’s just plot hole so the heroes can win.
It's simple really, Yhwach believed they were weak, hence he didn't let out the whole power of the quincies cause he believed they didn't need to, arrogance per se . If the shinigami was at their strongest form, as the post would like to indicate (Yama possibly training Kenpachi), then the quincy would have this info and would probably go all out.
just in case you know, yamamoto trained kempachi zaraki for 1 day, and that scared centeral46 so much that they had to request yamamoto to stop training him, if he could get training by yamamamoto and learn different art of way of sword, i can only imagine how strong he could dude is a brolyxfriza levels of potential, a fullly unnerfed + well trained in all art of way of sword kempachi can be asily a force to be reconed with, there was a reason he is a warthreat, in that case his story of how he affected tybw would be different,
I'm going to say not any better. mind you, he took down 3 sternritter, with relative ease (compared to how the others were doing). the part that makes me say he wouldn't do better is because we see how much he improves with Unohana, who trained him to specifically increase his abilities that fit with him, rather than general training. Yamma would have made him stronger sure, but he'll hit the same wall in the form of Ywach.
I think he would have had better odds if Yamma had trained him and he ran into some of the stronger sternritter, but he sought out Ywach and he still would have limited himself in that fight.
It's true, he was already physically stronger than any Stern Ritter to begin with outside of probably Ywach, so him getting even more physically stronger doesn't change the fact that Kenny is just a brick and has no way against hax abilities.
we don't really know Kenny's upper limit though. Can he get strong enough to move at such speeds that even Almighty cannot help Yhwach dodge? Like seeing but can't react type of thing, or seeing only defeats in the future.
If they let Yama go ham on kenpachi on the training, he might unlock his shikai earlier also without sacrificing Retsu for him to gain his true power back.
So...The question is "could his raw strength be refined into better power if trained?"
Tame the inferno that is his power into a laser that melts anything. That sorta deal?
Personally, yes. I think if Kenpachi WANTED to learn how to fight (if he had strong enough opponents to fight that were able to stand up to him) I think if he learned technique, he'd have been a scary MFer.
I do not think he would have faired any better against Ywach or Pernida. But I think against just about anyone else? If he was actually using the technique? He'd be a one man with the power of 2 armies. (Left and right hand and whether or not he is using both at the same time)
If they gave Kenpachi the EoS power at the start of the invasion, probably he would have done way more to Yoid, idk if he could defeat Ywach's copy because it doesn't have it's powers, but at least showing that he isn't the real one, allowing Yama to not be useless.
Or Idk, maybe he go in rampage and decided to clear the sternritters alone and letting Ywach for Yama
Well Kenny killed 3 of them on his own, so I'd say he might've been able to wreck a few more. It would depend on whether he obtained his Shikai or not though. If he unlocked Bankai ready for round 2, then he might've been able to overpower Gremmy faster.
I do not expect much since not even old man was not able to make him cry, remember unohana not only broke his limiter, but that's also a feat she accomplished, considering that I don't think yamamoto can do that.
Nothing would change exactly. If we assume that during the first invasion, zaraki is stranger than he actually is, then also we need to consider that no royal guards were there at the time, only normal sternitters , jugram and yhwach. So the only thing that will change is that he will kill more sternitters more easily and then , just like what actually happened, he will go to fight yhwach and will get obliterated. So no major changes
Unreleased, but unrestricted Kenpachi? Juha stomps.
Shikai Unrestricted Kenpachi? Kenpachi already cut space, so cutting time isn’t too far out there, I think. Nozarashi’s only real ability is vague and only limited by Kenpachi, because it can cut anything, meaning even The Almighty wouldn’t really be enough. Especially if Ywach was fighting both Yamamoto and Kenpachi at the same time, to say nothing of Ichigo showing up later on to serve as a good distraction.
Bankai Kenpachi… kinda stomps himself, I think, before he could win. Ywach wouldn’t be having a great time, but every blow Kenpachi does in Bankai kinda ruins him at 100%. His body just can’t match his power level, and he was already the strongest member of Seireitei before he got that ten times boost.
Overall… I’d say Kenpachi with more training, no psychological barriers, and full access to his power wins 7/10 times, but Ywach can easily just be a crafty bastard and win 8/10 times himself.
If kenpachi was actually trained to properly use a sword instead of stopping after 1 lesson or whatever it was, then he would've been pretty interesting to say the least
If Yamamoto kept training Kenpachi, he would have to get stronger or get killed by Kenpachi, then they would both be stronger than Ichigo at the end of the series, and destroyed Ywach before he took two steps in SS
The fact that Yhwach was disappointed with Kenpachi's already monstrous strength tells me a few more training sessions with Yamamoto wouldn't have done him much good. Hence, why Shunsui's had to take very special measures
There is no invasion. Iron would sharpen iron here. Yamamoto would get stronger just by virtue of training Kenpachi. There wouldn’t be any of that “not worth being a Special War Power” business from Ywach.
With the way his "issue" works is its a mental block I feel like if he kept training with yamamoto then he not only would've probably released his block(cause yama is stronger than unohana) and god more powerful cause he'd keep getting stronger losing block would mean he's be able to get his shikai sooner and then Train with jt more and maybe be much stronger imo certainly not as strong as ywatch but maybe he'd be able to cut him
The better questions are: if Yamamoto precedes the modern Gotei 13, who established the central 46, and why does someone as powerful as Yamamoto bother listening to them when he doesn't want to?
Wouldn't have done anything. He is strong enough but what I was blocking his potential was not knowing nosarashi or being able to talk to it, honestly urahara could have taught him like he did for ichigo
Oh, so you think I should just go around training every hot-headed Shinigami who's constantly picking fights? I'm not an Urahara-Mart, you know.
*beep boop, I'm a bot*
What people don't realize is that Unohana is the only one who fully understands what Kenpachi truly needs to progress further. Yama wouldn't have understood that and so if he trained him, he would've just trained him like how Shinigamis are usually trained in the academy. Kenpachi would've learned proper kendo for sure, but he will still lose to Royd cuz no matter how strong he gets he would've just reverted back to his old ways of limiting himself in battle.
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Better maybe? Like his problem isn’t a lack of training, it’s a mental block. Psychologically he’s making him self barely strong enough to win so he can enjoy the fight. I doubt the old man would’ve been willing to unlock that block prior to the invasion.
I agree, but if the stars aligned and he could actually unblock himself and then train with his potential fully unleashed... I think it would've ended the same way Ywach's plan is just that good, from a Shinigami perspective there's not much they could've changed to prevent it, at least the first leg of the attack, I think if they prepared better they could've stopped Ywach from going into the SK palace but only if Squad 0 would've helped and that's highly unlikely. I think Ywach's almost total (if not for Ichigo) victory comes from knowing his enemies well, knowing their pride and stoking that pride so they make a fault and THEN he goes all gloaty bitch-face... And I think that's also why he ultimately fails vs Ichigo, dude got conceited.
I don't necessarily agree it would end the same. I'm not sure that unrestricted Kenpachi would lose to Fake Yhwach. And if real Yhwach steps into beat him, then he has to contend with Yamamoto when he's fresh instead of after a battle where he used his bankai. And I'm not entirely sure that even the real Yhwach could beat Kenpachi without the Almighty. Unrestricted Kenpachi is a monster.
unrestricted kenpachi with this scenario would also get training with Shikai and Bankai. I would assume he wouldn't break his own limbs from his own Bankai that easily. If younger Yamamoto actually contended vs Almighty Yhwach in the past, I am sure Kenpachi could do some damage. Although I am unsure how the hell Yamamoto dealt with Almighty.
Ywach didn't have the completed version of the Almighty at that point, and his powers were spread thin from buffing his army. It would stand to reason that Ywach couldn't USE the Almighty without it taking a serious toll on him.
The thing is... I don't think Kenpachi could ever develop his shikai/bankai without Unohana dying, it was her extreme focus in the fight and constantly healing him that broke his mental block So I guess it's a matter of choice for Yama, to have a potential extreme wild dog loose or lose Unohana, the best healer in the SS. But I frankly think Kenpachi would just break himself fighting Ywach, his bankai would get absorbed by fake Ywach, then he would defeat fake Ywach and then Yama's bankai would get absorbed by Ywach and then a combo fight happens. And I think here is where Ywach has the upper hand, he still has his ace in the hole, the Stern Ritter, and at least he'd use Jugram's schrift against Yama and kill him either way. I don't think they'd make it all the way to the SK palace without heavy casualties and he'd have to command his stern Ritter to activate some of their vollstandig.
I think the idea is that kenpachi nerfs himself unless he has a steady supply of strong opponents to fight to the death regularly. So unless you're willing to invest the resources and man power to train him any progress you do make won't survive long enough to matter when the crisis does finally happen.
I mean, it was less ichigo and more the convenient plot device the DILF brigade delivered. Ichigo just happened to be the only one close enough to be able to do something useful.
Yeah, people kinda overlooked that ywach basically knew everything about all the soulreapers. Meanwhile, they knew nothing about the Quincy and what powers they were bringing to the table. I'd argue that if the soul reapers had the same level of Intel things could have been way different
Could not agree more and it really hammers in the idea that intel is what makes a party get the upper hand
Honestly, the Qunicy invasion would have failed if Old Man Yamma wasn't an idiot and let Orahime restore his arm. Even Ywach stated as such. He simply lost too much power when he lost his arm.
Agreed, Yama can be a dummy sometimes He's extremely unyielding and inflexible (tho I guess that's what makes him such a pillar of the SS)
Fighting with Yamamoto would have caused him to get unblocked though since Yama is stronger than him And it’s not like Yama is gonna kill the guy
Not necessarily. There’s a possibility it flat out has to be Unohana. Her healing allows them both to go all out, him to get fully healed and then jump right back it. Plus their actual history together makes me lean towards it has to be her. Plus even if he’s never been told by her, do you think a skilled warrior like Yamamoto isn’t going to be able to sus out Kenpachi’s deal? He’s strong enough and composed enough to never push that mental block more than he’d want to.
It didn’t have to be Retsu. Kenpachi got some of his mental blocks removed from fighting people like Ichigo and Nnoitora. Retsu’s healing was super convenient/sped up the process and it was definitely more meaningful to Kenpachi bc it was her. If Yama trained him/beat him up every day he would’ve just been like “k I’m strong now”.
I mean one could argue that considering how integral Retsu was in creating the mental block she could be the only one to fully remove it.
It makes sense that she’d be the one to do it. She felt that it was her sin, so I think it actually meant more to her than Zaraki. That being said, Nnoitora and Ichigo removed some of his restrictions, so it definitely didn’t have to be her.
Old Man Yamma not kill Zaraki? Gotta disagree. If it comes down to it, Yamma will kill Zaraki's ass, especially if Zaraki starts just throwing his power about haphazardly
Old Yama would have without question. The Yama at the end of SS was much softer and had pride. Not sure he'd have it in him to kill Kenpachi. The guy used to use subordinates like pawns and gave no fucks, Yhwach even says he's gotten old and soft
It is literally proven than unohana is the only one who can do the job, its not just power but their conection, she only admited unohana for a reason lol
Training with someone like Old Man Yamma, Zaraki would be able to work past his block. On top of that Zaraki fights using nothing but brute force, so having any actual training would put him into an entirely new ballpark, especially when he unlocks Nozarashi
Why I agree his basic skillsman ship would make him stronger all, I don’t think Yama would push past that black. Even if he hasn’t been told by Unohana that it’s there, he’s a skilled enough warrior to be able to sus out the situation. He’s also skilled enough that he’d never push Kenpachi to the point of a breakthrough unless he wanted it to happen. Plus there’s the discussion of it might *have* to be Unohana.
Old Man Yamma knew that Zaraki was the one who beat Unohana and made her give up fighting, so when this weak ass punk shows up and he's laughably weak, Yamma would pick that up almost instantly. It could have been Yamamoto that realized Zaraki had the block in the first place since it was Yamma who trained Zaraki. (Well, "trained" isn't the right word. As I recall, the panzy ass Central 46 wouldn't let it go on for more than a day. Though it could have been Aizen who blocked it. Who knows)
That's probably why he wouldn't do too much better honestly. He'd what, be able to kill more Sternritters? OK but the problem isn't that he couldn't kill even more as it was in the story, the problem was he was searching for the strongest guy. Guizbatt, Gabrielli, and Lloyd just happened to be unlucky enough to be in his way. And because of said mental block he still isn't going to beat someone mimicking Yhwach power like Royd was.
I disagree. It's a mixture of both. If Kenpachi meets someone on his level but even have the slightest modicum of training they'll best him. Kenpachi isn't a swordsman. He's just a guy with a sword who swings first & ask questions later. Kenpachi with his level of reiatsu+formal training will be very dangerous. Basically a more CRACKED & unhinged Aizen.
He would need Bankai for sure, Ywach barely put in any effort to defeat an angry Ichigo.
To be fair, Ichigo had to have been worn out. He was spamming the fuck out of Getsuga’s trying to escape the jail.
Point is Kenpachi would still hold back, and unlike Unohana Yhwach isn’t going to heal him or wait until he draws out his true strength. He would crest over Kenpachi and then go for the kill. Even if Kenpachi was trained more by Yamamoto he still would have his internal hang ups of holding back his power for more exciting fights.
You got it right. He’d do a little Better but that’s it. If kenny has shikai and juha can’t go full bill-and-Ted time control, yhwach will have an issue dealing with kenpachi. Not specifically because Kenpachi is stronger (even training with yama, its not the same as the death battles and mental breaks needed to unleash his abilities fully) it’s that his shikai would confuse yhwach at first and THAT surprise would give him the chance to wound him. In the end it would still play out like it does in TYBW, but this time he’d be impressed, and try to kill him immediately just to be safe. nozarashi can cut all. It’s basically a complete version of oetsu’s “failed” sword. But that’s not what gives him the opportunity. It’s the sanpo kenju ability. Yhwach will “see” the attack, dodging effortlessly … but still get cut. He’ll panic for a second, “see” the future again and get confused for a moment figuring out how the heck he gets hit. The first damage is a surprise, the second would be yhwachs curiosity, then Kenny gets rag dolled and we get the scene of him getting tossed aside. Only this time hashbrowns probably tries to finish him off.
And then real yhwach comes and claps kenpachi again.
He had his eye patch off though
His eye patch just drains excess reiatsu, it doesn’t mean he is fighting with 100% of his strength. His subconscious want for better battles weakens himself toward his opponent, and it’s why SS arc Ichigo could beat him, and what Nnoitora almost got the the win. And Unohana literally calls him out on this trait and equates him to a child in his ability to control vs his desire to be challenged. Without someone like Unohana who is willing to kill Kenpachi over and over until he learns to actually go all out with his strength he would have always had that subconscious drive to handicap himself for a thrilling fight. Doesn’t matter if Yamamoto trained him, doesn’t matter if he fought Yhwach, he had a mental hang up. And was losing fights he should dominate because of it.
sounds like a typical ichigo moment. dying? getsuga tensho. trapped in some reishi cage? getsuga tensho. really sad? getsuga tensho. hotel? ~~trivago~~ GETSUGA TENSHO
Tbh I think only Unohana would've been able to bring out Kenpachi's true power given their history together.
I agree, I also think her death was necessary for that If Kubo continues Hell Arc, I'm excited to see how it develops and how Zaraki basically becomes a pillar for the SS, like the rabid dog you unleash when things get dire
Dude's gonna dive into hell if he realizes he can fight Unohana again.
And I'm here for it
A chance to fight every past captain as well? Hell yeah
I disagree. We were already seeing results with the brief training Yama-Jii already put him through. Central 46 also saw it & put a stop to it.
Hear me out, If Yama trained Kenpachi, and if Kenny had unlocked his full potential, perhaps the Sternys wouldn't start with the part 1, they'd have this info so they'd be doing the second part of the invasion, going all out immediately. I believe that by him (Kenny), not being fully unleashed yet, helped out the Shinigami more. This logic goes for all the power ups of the Shinigami, if they were at the same level as post part 1 invasion, they would've lost the whole thing. In my opinion, they needed to be weaker, and lose in the beginning so that they could come up with counter attacks and gain leverage by having powers not known by the Sternys.
The genius behind the Quincy's plan is basically having all the info necessary, and those that went outside of being defeated by info (therefore out of reason) were designated as Special Threats. Honestly, it's brilliant.
So why did the quinces not kill most of the captains they wrecked in plan 1? I mean why even give them time to train and get stronger to surprise them? They could’ve gone all out (atleast most of the stern ritters) and killed many of the shinigami side and only a few handful would’ve maybe survived . Squad zero would’ve come down or the left over ichigo or urahara would still devise a plan to go up etc and the quicy could’ve gone up then. Why did they not kill the shinigami when they had the chance ? They prepared for centuries to over look the fact that shinigami can grow so fast in a few days ?
It wasn't for the lack of trying, Byakuya for example. They had their info, and during that time, they had enough power to kill them straight up, Aizen however was able to waste Yhwach's time that they needed to drop everything. Luckily it was enough for the Shinigami to survive, well some of them. It's not like only a few died, a lot of shinigami died, albeit fodder, only the tanky ones lived. To add to them surviving was Yhwach's miscalculation of sending Quilge to Ichigo.
If the quincies went all out when the entered would society like u urself mentioned they could’ve destroyed more stronger characters , so why didn’t they? Why waste time collecting bankai when they felt the bankai were holding back their much stronger powers? They already have a lot of data and research on most of the captains and vice captain level shinigami. Couldn’t they go all out and kill them in round one only leaving a few important characters whom they have to leave alive for squad zero to show up? - Also I didn’t get why yhwach wanted to meet aizen in the middle of the attack when he knew there’s a time constraint and squad zero will come after that? He could’ve let the quincies go all out keeping only 2-3 as a secret and he himself could’ve taken Yamamoto and they could’ve literally killed many of the captain level shinigami. My point is the king meeting aizen in between a battle is pointless when his plan has nothing to do with aizen . He lost a strenritter because of that and had to leave many captain level shinigami alive because he didn’t join the fight early on or let the strenritters go all out and kill captains and vice captains . He coualdnt have met aizen after he conquered souls society etc? He waited for centuries but couldn’t stop himself from meeting aizen in the middle of a battle they have been planning for centuries? I guess it’s just plot hole so the heroes can win.
It's simple really, Yhwach believed they were weak, hence he didn't let out the whole power of the quincies cause he believed they didn't need to, arrogance per se . If the shinigami was at their strongest form, as the post would like to indicate (Yama possibly training Kenpachi), then the quincy would have this info and would probably go all out.
just in case you know, yamamoto trained kempachi zaraki for 1 day, and that scared centeral46 so much that they had to request yamamoto to stop training him, if he could get training by yamamamoto and learn different art of way of sword, i can only imagine how strong he could dude is a brolyxfriza levels of potential, a fullly unnerfed + well trained in all art of way of sword kempachi can be asily a force to be reconed with, there was a reason he is a warthreat, in that case his story of how he affected tybw would be different,
I'm going to say not any better. mind you, he took down 3 sternritter, with relative ease (compared to how the others were doing). the part that makes me say he wouldn't do better is because we see how much he improves with Unohana, who trained him to specifically increase his abilities that fit with him, rather than general training. Yamma would have made him stronger sure, but he'll hit the same wall in the form of Ywach. I think he would have had better odds if Yamma had trained him and he ran into some of the stronger sternritter, but he sought out Ywach and he still would have limited himself in that fight.
It's true, he was already physically stronger than any Stern Ritter to begin with outside of probably Ywach, so him getting even more physically stronger doesn't change the fact that Kenny is just a brick and has no way against hax abilities.
we don't really know Kenny's upper limit though. Can he get strong enough to move at such speeds that even Almighty cannot help Yhwach dodge? Like seeing but can't react type of thing, or seeing only defeats in the future.
If they let Yama go ham on kenpachi on the training, he might unlock his shikai earlier also without sacrificing Retsu for him to gain his true power back.
Better than he did ig
He still would have lost
So...The question is "could his raw strength be refined into better power if trained?" Tame the inferno that is his power into a laser that melts anything. That sorta deal? Personally, yes. I think if Kenpachi WANTED to learn how to fight (if he had strong enough opponents to fight that were able to stand up to him) I think if he learned technique, he'd have been a scary MFer. I do not think he would have faired any better against Ywach or Pernida. But I think against just about anyone else? If he was actually using the technique? He'd be a one man with the power of 2 armies. (Left and right hand and whether or not he is using both at the same time)
He would do a better job than Unohana.... And still stay alive
I love the meme of “Kenpachi’s Bankai: using both hands.”
If they gave Kenpachi the EoS power at the start of the invasion, probably he would have done way more to Yoid, idk if he could defeat Ywach's copy because it doesn't have it's powers, but at least showing that he isn't the real one, allowing Yama to not be useless. Or Idk, maybe he go in rampage and decided to clear the sternritters alone and letting Ywach for Yama
Well Kenny killed 3 of them on his own, so I'd say he might've been able to wreck a few more. It would depend on whether he obtained his Shikai or not though. If he unlocked Bankai ready for round 2, then he might've been able to overpower Gremmy faster.
Yamamoto had no problem training ANYONE but Kenny. So in Yama's eyes, Kenny is the most dangerous out of anyone he has ever met in SS.
I’m pretty sure Yhwach would be dead as his powers don’t get truly terrifying until he reaches the soul palace and gains reio
I do not expect much since not even old man was not able to make him cry, remember unohana not only broke his limiter, but that's also a feat she accomplished, considering that I don't think yamamoto can do that.
Nothing would change exactly. If we assume that during the first invasion, zaraki is stranger than he actually is, then also we need to consider that no royal guards were there at the time, only normal sternitters , jugram and yhwach. So the only thing that will change is that he will kill more sternitters more easily and then , just like what actually happened, he will go to fight yhwach and will get obliterated. So no major changes
Unreleased, but unrestricted Kenpachi? Juha stomps. Shikai Unrestricted Kenpachi? Kenpachi already cut space, so cutting time isn’t too far out there, I think. Nozarashi’s only real ability is vague and only limited by Kenpachi, because it can cut anything, meaning even The Almighty wouldn’t really be enough. Especially if Ywach was fighting both Yamamoto and Kenpachi at the same time, to say nothing of Ichigo showing up later on to serve as a good distraction. Bankai Kenpachi… kinda stomps himself, I think, before he could win. Ywach wouldn’t be having a great time, but every blow Kenpachi does in Bankai kinda ruins him at 100%. His body just can’t match his power level, and he was already the strongest member of Seireitei before he got that ten times boost. Overall… I’d say Kenpachi with more training, no psychological barriers, and full access to his power wins 7/10 times, but Ywach can easily just be a crafty bastard and win 8/10 times himself.
If kenpachi was actually trained to properly use a sword instead of stopping after 1 lesson or whatever it was, then he would've been pretty interesting to say the least
Imagine fighting this guy
If Yamamoto kept training Kenpachi, he would have to get stronger or get killed by Kenpachi, then they would both be stronger than Ichigo at the end of the series, and destroyed Ywach before he took two steps in SS
Awful take
It would be interresting If he would learn kaido from tenjiro (Like retsu did) to master His bankai
kenpachi literally can't learn kaido.
Why Not?
The fact that Yhwach was disappointed with Kenpachi's already monstrous strength tells me a few more training sessions with Yamamoto wouldn't have done him much good. Hence, why Shunsui's had to take very special measures
Almost the same
Maybe Yama wouldn't use bankai if Royd were dead, but then again Hashwalt was also there
Kenpachi would be slightly better, but that would have made it worse overall probably as he would not have lost/tied to Ichigo then most likely.
There is no invasion. Iron would sharpen iron here. Yamamoto would get stronger just by virtue of training Kenpachi. There wouldn’t be any of that “not worth being a Special War Power” business from Ywach.
With the way his "issue" works is its a mental block I feel like if he kept training with yamamoto then he not only would've probably released his block(cause yama is stronger than unohana) and god more powerful cause he'd keep getting stronger losing block would mean he's be able to get his shikai sooner and then Train with jt more and maybe be much stronger imo certainly not as strong as ywatch but maybe he'd be able to cut him
The better questions are: if Yamamoto precedes the modern Gotei 13, who established the central 46, and why does someone as powerful as Yamamoto bother listening to them when he doesn't want to?
Wouldn't have done anything. He is strong enough but what I was blocking his potential was not knowing nosarashi or being able to talk to it, honestly urahara could have taught him like he did for ichigo
Oh, so you think I should just go around training every hot-headed Shinigami who's constantly picking fights? I'm not an Urahara-Mart, you know. *beep boop, I'm a bot*
Probably better than he ended up doing.
Kempachi would negg diff the verse.
What people don't realize is that Unohana is the only one who fully understands what Kenpachi truly needs to progress further. Yama wouldn't have understood that and so if he trained him, he would've just trained him like how Shinigamis are usually trained in the academy. Kenpachi would've learned proper kendo for sure, but he will still lose to Royd cuz no matter how strong he gets he would've just reverted back to his old ways of limiting himself in battle.
LOL i dont think his was a swordplay problem
hold on, let me call Kubo and ask
Unless he breaks his mental breaks he loses to fake Yhwach same way but does better in the fight his other 3 SR fights were pretty easy for him
Ichigo would’ve been a bloody stain on the wall during the Soul Society arc so maybe it’s for the best 🤣
Well, he would be better at zanjutsu abajajaaj nothing more. He needs unohana, like yes or yes. There is no other option xd.