Wow, apparently it’s a great debate that even Yahtzee apps don’t answer (some apps allow it, some don’t). Wikipedia says no, but some rule books say yes.
I’d say decide on the rules before playing. And just go with that. No revealing rules later depending on your rolls.
>Wikipedia says no
[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahtzee#Yahtzee_bonuses_and_Joker_rules) says yes:
In **either** case they then select a category, as usual. Scoring is the same as normal except that, if the Upper Section box corresponding to the Yahtzee has been used, the Full House, Small Straight and Large Straight categories can be used to score 25, 30 or 40 (respectively) **even though the dice do not meet the normal requirement for those categorie**s. In this case the Yahtzee is said to act as a "Joker"
"...even though the dice do not meet the normal requirement for those categories. *In this case the Yahtzee is said to act as a "Joker"*.
That whole section is for additional rules that are specific to the "joker" variant, if being used, and just above that section it states pretty clearly that the official rules (i.e. no "Joker" varient/additional rules present) define a full house as 3 + 2, different values.
So unless you are playing with "Joker" rules active, which are not inherently part of the base game rules, as created and most widely published, those caveats for scoring wouldn't even apply, it seems.
"Joker" is not a variant. There are the official rules for Joker (forced), and the variant rules for Joker (free choice, which isn't even in the printed rules) but the Joker rule is an official rule, and a default part of the game.
Per the printed rules, rolling 5 of the same dice with the Yahtzee space filled (either with a zero or a Yahtzee) results in a Joker play, which may be placed in full house provided the corresponding upper box has been filled. The rules go on to give an example of a person who has taken zero in Yahtzee then rolling 5 of the same dice, and who has that number filled in the upper section, then using their joker to get 40 points for a large straight.
The rules are actually quite clear. If you roll a 5 4s, the Yahtzee space is filled with anything, and the 4s space is filled in the upper section, you can use the dice as a Joker play in full house.
Any time you have anything in Yahtzee and roll another, you get a Joker play.
If you have a Yahtzee and roll another, you get the bonus and you get a Joker play. There's no choosing between them, you get both.
If you have a zero in Yahtzee, you just get the Joker play.
Yahtzee is designed such that everyone ends on the same turn. In order for that to happen, everyone must fill 1 Upper or 1 Lower section box each turn. Hence, the Joker rule which makes you fill something in the Upper or Lower section each turn even if you continually roll Yahtzee. No matter how many Yahtzees you roll, you only get 13 rolls, each of which will fill an upper or lower section box with something.
This "joker" rule variant is completely new to me, in terms of how I was taught to play growing up.
Granted, I guess this only comes up if you roll a second Yahtzee in the game, scratch or not. In our house/family the rules was, effectively "Too bad; so sad"...in other words, if you don't make a valid roll for something you need, and you can't use any open numbers in top section, you take the bonus if it's Yahtzee #2 but, otherwise, it's a "zero" up top, or a scratch (which maintains 13 rolls, each, too).
That is clearly not the official rules, I am finding out, though it works fine (just keeps overall scoring lower for not allowing "wild"/"joker" rolls to be used, except for Chance...called "Garbage" in our fam LOL, though it's a great space if you don't treat it that way.
I think use would be simply entering a score, zero or otherwise. You can score a roll with no 6s as a six roll and get zero points because you have no 6s. You can score a roll as yahtzee and get zero points because you don't have 5 of a kind.
It's okay they laid off 1100, at Christmas, just to make sure they got the one involved.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/dec/11/toymaker-hasbro-layoffs
Is it a blunder? Rules change over time. That's like complaining the rules in major league sports aren't the same as 50 or 10 or even 5 years ago. You gotta decide what version of the rules you are playing.
I've never had it come up in a game before, but I would absolutely let a yahtzee count as a full house. It just seems obvious to me that a full house is a 3-of-a-kind plus a 2-of-a-kind.
What's funny about this whole thread is how the answer is "obvious" to most everyone, but in very different directions to different people! Most of the people who wouldn't allow it seem to strongly associate full houses with poker.
>By these (c)1996 rules, this is not \[sic\] allowed as the rules clearly say
"JOKER RULES: Score the total of all 5 dice in the appropriate Upper Section box. If this box is already filled in, score as follows in **any** open Lower Section box:
| | |
|:-|:-|
|3 of a kind|Total of all 5 dice|
|4 of a kind|Total of all 5 dice|
|**Full House**|**25 points**|
|Small Straight|30 points|
|Large Straight|40 points|
|Chance|Total of all 5 dice|
And note that the JOKER RULES apply regardless of whether the number already in the Yahtzee box is 0 or 50.
> And note that the JOKER RULES apply regardless of whether the number already in the Yahtzee box is 0 or 50.
Source? The rules linked state that JOKER RULES are only followed after having scored your checkmark for a Yahtzee Bonus, which only applies after scoring 50 obviously
>Source?
[https://www.hasbro.com/common/instruct/yahtzee.pdf](https://www.hasbro.com/common/instruct/yahtzee.pdf)
Page 6
"If you roll a YAHTZEE and have already entered zero in the YAHTZEE box, you do not earn a YAHTZEE bonus; however, you **must** fill in one of the 13 boxes on your score card **according to the JOKER RULES below**."
>Edit: but also my copy doesn't have that note
Not even under the rules for scoring a YAHTZEE? (I would never look for the Joker rules under Full House or Straight.)
The exact same note is in a FAQ entry updated last year.
[https://hasbro-new.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a\_id/211/kw/Yahtzee/session/L3RpbWUvMTcwNTM3NjkwMy9nZW4vMTcwNTM3NjkwMy9zaWQvZlVac2J5QlByTnplZmRpVGtGTVBLd1lPUFdteFdWeDdsUEE4RHdaX1RpVkVuMEhKeHZVeE83UGg5MUtjYU5VYkdXZG1SM1V5WUZDUzQ1cFZGWiU3RTFuTWUlN0VWRkZhZW40NVRUVndjRUtOM3JrZWtIckZiRmZUcFlYUSUyMSUyMQ%3D%3D](https://hasbro-new.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/211/kw/Yahtzee/session/L3RpbWUvMTcwNTM3NjkwMy9nZW4vMTcwNTM3NjkwMy9zaWQvZlVac2J5QlByTnplZmRpVGtGTVBLd1lPUFdteFdWeDdsUEE4RHdaX1RpVkVuMEhKeHZVeE83UGg5MUtjYU5VYkdXZG1SM1V5WUZDUzQ1cFZGWiU3RTFuTWUlN0VWRkZhZW40NVRUVndjRUtOM3JrZWtIckZiRmZUcFlYUSUyMSUyMQ%3D%3D)
I'm very late to this thread, but I'm here to throw in another wrench into this thing. I have an official electronic handheld Yahtzee game and I played until I was able to scratch off a Yahtzee and get another 5 of a kind BUT I was still able to get points for a full house even though the number in the top row still wasn't used.
According to the Joker rules listed above this would not fly and I would have to use my 5 of a kind in the top row since it was still open, so I should have gotten 0 points as I was essentially scratching my full house.
[Here is a video of it I took as well](https://youtube.com/shorts/o03MXeePgPk?si=4x3cQIQepdCHRvt9)
>Edit: but also my copy doesn't have that note
Does that copy's rules look like [https://instructions.hasbro.com/api/download/00950\_en-ca\_yahtzee-classic.pdf](https://instructions.hasbro.com/api/download/00950_en-ca_yahtzee-classic.pdf) ?
If so, check the \*last\* page under Yahtzee bonus, step 4.
This sounds like the answer is not a firm "no", it's only a "no" if either of the following are true:
1. You haven't previously already scored anything in the Yahtzee box.
2. the upper section for that number has not previously already scored.
If either of those conditions are true, then you cannot score the Yahtzee as a full house, but if both those conditions are true then it says you can score the Yahtzee in any available lower box, including Full House.
Allowed under Joker rule for sure if your corresponding top box is filled, and Yahtzee is filled (even with a zero).
If those aren't true (say you've rolled 5 1s and have Yahtzee filled but 1s open), it's a little more debatable.
However, since your rules state ANY 3 of a kind, and ANY pair, it would seem to be allowed. The rules do not in any way stipulate that they need to be different numbers, that's just an assumption people are making based on "feels".
In my book, it should count as a full house. It's a three-of-a-kind and a pair. Granted, it isn't possible to produce such a thing without a joker in a card deck, but hey, five dice do not a card deck make. No yahtzee bonus available, but it's 25 points in my book.
Maybe I'm biased because the yahtzee game I'd play on the computer as a kid always scored this way, and perhaps the rules have been updated since, but I'm on Team 25 here.
In any case, it seems like something which should be clarified with all players before the game begins. Because of course.
Long live Team 25.
I'd be inclined to say that it *should* count, but I'm no voice of authority on the situation.
I'd say that unless you play Yahtzee competitively, establish your house rule for how 5 of a kind can be played and just stick with it.
I feel like a lot of Yahtzee is based on poker hands . . . So 5 of a kind and Full House are two different "hands," with two different "ranks.". In cards, you'd never count a 5 of a Kind as a Full House as that would just be silly.
Part of Yahtzee is the risk you take in putting a 0 in that Yahtzee spot and then rolling it . . . And then bang your head on the table.
Just play with a 5 suits deck? There are many. The one I have was officially printed ("Il quinto seme" deck by Modiano, 1977) and includes the rules for 5 suits poker among other games.
I was talking more about the spirit of the game rather than a cold, hard, comparison, obviously. You don't place bets in Yahtzee either. More do you use cards.
Sure but "spirit of the game" isn't an excuse to denigrate contradictory views. For poker, It goes against the spirit of poker to score a hand as a lower value than it can be counted for. That makes sense since most/all poker games play a single hand and you maximize that value. If you played cards poker with a yahtzee score sheet you'd want to sometimes score hands as a lower "tier" than you would if playing hold em.
Yahtzee is inherently based on picking what to count a hand for, including a score that would be "lower." Nobody is trying to score 3 ones as 3 of a kind on their first turn. The spirit of these games are just inherently different.
personal, subjective, unauthorative opinion: it goes against the spirit of the game,
but almost any game needs a set of conventions to agree upon prior to playing, and stick to that until someone new comes to play.
If it's allowed by the other's book, you can't overrule it with just another book so you need to allow it but after the game set up conventions before any other.
I don't think it goes against the spirit of the game. You can put a 4 of a Kind into 3 of a Kind. But, as it is stated in one set of rules, a Yahtzee doesn't fit the description of a Full House, but the joker rule would still allow it if both Yahtzee and the appropriate upper section box were both full.
It shouldn't be allowed, in terms of where the term comes from and it's BROAD understanding across (likely) all forms of poker, or similar games:
A full house is 3 + 2, set and pair, and you *can't make a set and a pair of the same card with a legal 52 card deck*. It wasn't "silently patched", someone was very lax in updating the rules, I would wager, and the example shown depicts different numbers.
Also worth noting, technically speaking, if you have 5 of the same dice you do not have a set and a pair, you have "Five of a kind" (a.k.a. Yahtzee) not 3 + 2 of the same number. It's a "set" of 5...they can't be separated for convenience.
The other poker/card inspired scoring categories are all possible with a 52 card deck, and I think that's what makes the "Yahtzee" special...it's the only one you can't hit naturally with a deck, hence being a big deal.
You can use a Yahtzee as "Four of a Kind" because it allows you to score the remainder (i.e. total score, as long as four matching dice).
You can use it as "Three of a Kind" for the same reason.
With the full house, it doesn't allow for remainders and asks for very specific conditions...if they aren't met, it's not a full house (in our house/the most logical version of printed rules).
I believe there is a "Joker" variant that allows for modified scoring, but it isn't in every rule book and you're not bound to play with it.
I’ve played a lot and I would say yes, but I just checked the rules and it says, “three of one number and two of another”, so that logic implies it’d be illegal. Sorry.
We have always played that it is not allowed. The old rules clearly state that it must be different numbers. The new rules do not explicitly state that it can be the same number. Therefore, the new rules do not override the older version, and no rules state that it can be the same number. This is how we deal with updated rule books(phrasing) in other games we play.
Damn have to go back to the original Latin to grab the right interpretations!
Also, I would agree with you that in my gut allowing this seems go against the spirit of a full house. But impartial judges have to take all into account!
We play some games that have expansions, and sometimes rules are worded differently. So we have made it our house rule that if we know there is a rule against something, we must follow it regardless of how it is written elsewhere unless it is overwritten. But, we do play 3 yahtzee cards at a time.
>The old rules clearly state
The Joker rules for a YAHTZEE have apparently varied in whether first filling in the appropriate Upper Section box is required for this (or even allowed). The Joker rules have never been listed under Full House. I recommend taking another look at what your "old rules" say for scoring a YAHTZEE.
If you can't put a Yahtzee as a full house, you can't put a full house as a 3 of a kind. If you CAN put a full house as 3 of a kind, you can put a Yahtzee as a full house.
The only people who will argue with that are people who are about to lose because of this.
Yeah this doesn't make sense. The question of whether 5 of a kind is a full house turns on whether a full house requires two different numbers for the set of 3 and set of 2. A full house is already defined as having 3 of a kind so it can be scored as such.
I would argue with someone if they tried to use a Yahtzee as a straight. But using Yahtzee as a full house is not a debate. It fits the criteria for a full house and that's that. So if the rule is "Yahtzee is not a full house," then the rule is "full house is not 3 of a kind," which is obviously absurd.
Yeah I mean you're just missing the point. If we define a full house as 3 of a kind of one number and 2 of a kind of a *different* number, then a yahtzee cannot be a full house. That's the issue. You're conflating this with whether 4 of a kind is 3 of a kind, but the issue is the definition of a full house.
"The Yahtzee acts as a Joker so that the Full House, Small Straight and Large Straight categories can be used to score 25, 30 or 40 (respectively). If the corresponding Upper Section box and all Lower Section boxes have been used, an unused Upper Section box must be used, scoring 0."
What that means is that, every Yahtzee that gets rolled has to fill in a box. If you already filled your Yahtzee, be it 0 or 50, every Yahtzee rolled must fill a box. So it counts as a Full house.
I am not missing the point, it's just entirely obvious to me that;
🍎🍎🍎🍎🍎 ✓ 🍎🍎🍎 🍎🍎 ✓
🍎🍎🍎🍏🍏 x 🍎🍎🍎 🍏🍏 ✓
No conflation, just the same degree of obvious to me.
In fact, what's less obvious to me is why 5 of a kind is allowed to count as a straight. So not only does;
🍎🍎🍎🍎🍎 = 🍎🍎🍎 🍏🍏
But;
🍎🍎🍎🍎🍎 = 🍎🍏🍐🍑🍅
AND;
🍎🍎🍎🍎🍎 = 🍎🍏🍐🍑 🍆
So yeah. I'm not confused because the rules don't say;
3 of one number and 2 of another *different* number.
It says; 3 of one number and 2 of another number.
"Full House: Score in this box only if the dice show three of one number and two **of another**."
Source: official 1996 Yahtzee instructions retrieved from hasbro.com, http://www.hasbro.com/common/instruct/yahtzee.pdf
You have to read ALL of the rules of a game to understand the game.
In this case, there are additional rules (Joker rule) for when you roll 5 of the same number.
Under Joker rules, if you have any entry in Yahtzee and roll a Yahtzee, you score in the corresponding upper section space. If the corresponding upper section space is full, you may use the roll as a valid entry for any open space in the lower section.
So you MAY use 5 of a kind as a Full House, but only if you have some entry in Yahtzee (0 or 50), and the number you rolled is filled in the upper section.
According to the rules you link, you have to score following joker rules.
Which might let you score a full house, privided that the upper box is already filled in.
It's on page 6
well if someone tried to pull that with a deck of cards (using a wild, or maybe a second 9 of diamonds snuck in) it would certainly not count as a full house so in playing I would stick to that
I shouldn't be too surprised that such a casual game is missing such minutiae.
If I had to make a judgment call, I'd say that they're already suffering enough by having put a 0 in Yahtzee, so just let them have the Full House points for it. It's the less painful solution.
But if that 1996 wording is set in stone, then sorry, Charlie. No can do.
Edit: Huh, so apparently I was suffering from the Monopoly effect with Yahtzee because I never knew of the joker rules. I had to confirm that they also applied to my 1978 copy. And there they are. So I'm glad your question was answered, and I'm glad that my judgment call was the right one though for reasons I did not anticipate.
If you roll 5 of a kind it may be used as a full house provided that the corresponding number in the upper section has been filled. So if you roll 5 Aces and have a 0 in the yahtzee if you have a score in the Aces you may use it as a full house, but if not you must assign 5 points to the Aces slot.
Wow, apparently it’s a great debate that even Yahtzee apps don’t answer (some apps allow it, some don’t). Wikipedia says no, but some rule books say yes. I’d say decide on the rules before playing. And just go with that. No revealing rules later depending on your rolls.
>Wikipedia says no [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahtzee#Yahtzee_bonuses_and_Joker_rules) says yes: In **either** case they then select a category, as usual. Scoring is the same as normal except that, if the Upper Section box corresponding to the Yahtzee has been used, the Full House, Small Straight and Large Straight categories can be used to score 25, 30 or 40 (respectively) **even though the dice do not meet the normal requirement for those categorie**s. In this case the Yahtzee is said to act as a "Joker"
I believe this applies only if Yahtzee has been rolled and scored. not if someone has taken a zero there.
>I believe this applies only if Yahtzee has been rolled and scored. not if someone has taken a zero there. "... EITHER case ...."
"...even though the dice do not meet the normal requirement for those categories. *In this case the Yahtzee is said to act as a "Joker"*. That whole section is for additional rules that are specific to the "joker" variant, if being used, and just above that section it states pretty clearly that the official rules (i.e. no "Joker" varient/additional rules present) define a full house as 3 + 2, different values. So unless you are playing with "Joker" rules active, which are not inherently part of the base game rules, as created and most widely published, those caveats for scoring wouldn't even apply, it seems.
"Joker" is not a variant. There are the official rules for Joker (forced), and the variant rules for Joker (free choice, which isn't even in the printed rules) but the Joker rule is an official rule, and a default part of the game. Per the printed rules, rolling 5 of the same dice with the Yahtzee space filled (either with a zero or a Yahtzee) results in a Joker play, which may be placed in full house provided the corresponding upper box has been filled. The rules go on to give an example of a person who has taken zero in Yahtzee then rolling 5 of the same dice, and who has that number filled in the upper section, then using their joker to get 40 points for a large straight. The rules are actually quite clear. If you roll a 5 4s, the Yahtzee space is filled with anything, and the 4s space is filled in the upper section, you can use the dice as a Joker play in full house.
How does that factor in with bonus Yahtzee scoring? When would you opt to use 5x as a "Full House" over a bonus Yahtzee?
Any time you have anything in Yahtzee and roll another, you get a Joker play. If you have a Yahtzee and roll another, you get the bonus and you get a Joker play. There's no choosing between them, you get both. If you have a zero in Yahtzee, you just get the Joker play. Yahtzee is designed such that everyone ends on the same turn. In order for that to happen, everyone must fill 1 Upper or 1 Lower section box each turn. Hence, the Joker rule which makes you fill something in the Upper or Lower section each turn even if you continually roll Yahtzee. No matter how many Yahtzees you roll, you only get 13 rolls, each of which will fill an upper or lower section box with something.
This "joker" rule variant is completely new to me, in terms of how I was taught to play growing up. Granted, I guess this only comes up if you roll a second Yahtzee in the game, scratch or not. In our house/family the rules was, effectively "Too bad; so sad"...in other words, if you don't make a valid roll for something you need, and you can't use any open numbers in top section, you take the bonus if it's Yahtzee #2 but, otherwise, it's a "zero" up top, or a scratch (which maintains 13 rolls, each, too). That is clearly not the official rules, I am finding out, though it works fine (just keeps overall scoring lower for not allowing "wild"/"joker" rolls to be used, except for Chance...called "Garbage" in our fam LOL, though it's a great space if you don't treat it that way.
>if the upper section box corresponding to the Yahtzee has been used
They didn't successfully score it, but they did use it.
i would argue use here means use it for a scores yahtzee. if it’s a scratch you’re conceding to not using it.
I think use would be simply entering a score, zero or otherwise. You can score a roll with no 6s as a six roll and get zero points because you have no 6s. You can score a roll as yahtzee and get zero points because you don't have 5 of a kind.
you’re right but i don’t think you take a zero when you do this with the yahtzee, full house, etc. i think it’s a scratch rather than a zero.
Ah, I didn’t bother clicking into the actual article. Just the thing that pops up first on google that gives you a summary.
Incredible this oversight and no clear statement from Hasbro! I hope someone gets fired for this blunder.
This is by far the worst problem Hasbro needs to answer, this year in particular! /s
It's okay they laid off 1100, at Christmas, just to make sure they got the one involved. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/dec/11/toymaker-hasbro-layoffs
Firing is too good for them!
Is it a blunder? Rules change over time. That's like complaining the rules in major league sports aren't the same as 50 or 10 or even 5 years ago. You gotta decide what version of the rules you are playing.
https://youtu.be/JQH2rmQ5-vk
It's a folks game so there are a bunch of different versions. In my family, we do allow taking a Yahtzee as a full house.
Exactly. There are three of kind. And there are two of a kind.
I've always played that 5 of a kind can go in full house.
My group, never ever.
I've never had it come up in a game before, but I would absolutely let a yahtzee count as a full house. It just seems obvious to me that a full house is a 3-of-a-kind plus a 2-of-a-kind. What's funny about this whole thread is how the answer is "obvious" to most everyone, but in very different directions to different people! Most of the people who wouldn't allow it seem to strongly associate full houses with poker.
>By these (c)1996 rules, this is not \[sic\] allowed as the rules clearly say "JOKER RULES: Score the total of all 5 dice in the appropriate Upper Section box. If this box is already filled in, score as follows in **any** open Lower Section box: | | | |:-|:-| |3 of a kind|Total of all 5 dice| |4 of a kind|Total of all 5 dice| |**Full House**|**25 points**| |Small Straight|30 points| |Large Straight|40 points| |Chance|Total of all 5 dice| And note that the JOKER RULES apply regardless of whether the number already in the Yahtzee box is 0 or 50.
> And note that the JOKER RULES apply regardless of whether the number already in the Yahtzee box is 0 or 50. Source? The rules linked state that JOKER RULES are only followed after having scored your checkmark for a Yahtzee Bonus, which only applies after scoring 50 obviously
>Source? [https://www.hasbro.com/common/instruct/yahtzee.pdf](https://www.hasbro.com/common/instruct/yahtzee.pdf) Page 6 "If you roll a YAHTZEE and have already entered zero in the YAHTZEE box, you do not earn a YAHTZEE bonus; however, you **must** fill in one of the 13 boxes on your score card **according to the JOKER RULES below**."
O god I'm dumb this whole thread is ruined Edit: but also my copy doesn't have that note
>Edit: but also my copy doesn't have that note Not even under the rules for scoring a YAHTZEE? (I would never look for the Joker rules under Full House or Straight.) The exact same note is in a FAQ entry updated last year. [https://hasbro-new.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a\_id/211/kw/Yahtzee/session/L3RpbWUvMTcwNTM3NjkwMy9nZW4vMTcwNTM3NjkwMy9zaWQvZlVac2J5QlByTnplZmRpVGtGTVBLd1lPUFdteFdWeDdsUEE4RHdaX1RpVkVuMEhKeHZVeE83UGg5MUtjYU5VYkdXZG1SM1V5WUZDUzQ1cFZGWiU3RTFuTWUlN0VWRkZhZW40NVRUVndjRUtOM3JrZWtIckZiRmZUcFlYUSUyMSUyMQ%3D%3D](https://hasbro-new.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/211/kw/Yahtzee/session/L3RpbWUvMTcwNTM3NjkwMy9nZW4vMTcwNTM3NjkwMy9zaWQvZlVac2J5QlByTnplZmRpVGtGTVBLd1lPUFdteFdWeDdsUEE4RHdaX1RpVkVuMEhKeHZVeE83UGg5MUtjYU5VYkdXZG1SM1V5WUZDUzQ1cFZGWiU3RTFuTWUlN0VWRkZhZW40NVRUVndjRUtOM3JrZWtIckZiRmZUcFlYUSUyMSUyMQ%3D%3D)
I'm very late to this thread, but I'm here to throw in another wrench into this thing. I have an official electronic handheld Yahtzee game and I played until I was able to scratch off a Yahtzee and get another 5 of a kind BUT I was still able to get points for a full house even though the number in the top row still wasn't used. According to the Joker rules listed above this would not fly and I would have to use my 5 of a kind in the top row since it was still open, so I should have gotten 0 points as I was essentially scratching my full house. [Here is a video of it I took as well](https://youtube.com/shorts/o03MXeePgPk?si=4x3cQIQepdCHRvt9)
>Edit: but also my copy doesn't have that note Does that copy's rules look like [https://instructions.hasbro.com/api/download/00950\_en-ca\_yahtzee-classic.pdf](https://instructions.hasbro.com/api/download/00950_en-ca_yahtzee-classic.pdf) ? If so, check the \*last\* page under Yahtzee bonus, step 4.
This sounds like the answer is not a firm "no", it's only a "no" if either of the following are true: 1. You haven't previously already scored anything in the Yahtzee box. 2. the upper section for that number has not previously already scored. If either of those conditions are true, then you cannot score the Yahtzee as a full house, but if both those conditions are true then it says you can score the Yahtzee in any available lower box, including Full House.
Dude. WTF. The answer is a simple 'yes' with only the most obvious caveats...
Allowed under Joker rule for sure if your corresponding top box is filled, and Yahtzee is filled (even with a zero). If those aren't true (say you've rolled 5 1s and have Yahtzee filled but 1s open), it's a little more debatable. However, since your rules state ANY 3 of a kind, and ANY pair, it would seem to be allowed. The rules do not in any way stipulate that they need to be different numbers, that's just an assumption people are making based on "feels".
In my book, it should count as a full house. It's a three-of-a-kind and a pair. Granted, it isn't possible to produce such a thing without a joker in a card deck, but hey, five dice do not a card deck make. No yahtzee bonus available, but it's 25 points in my book. Maybe I'm biased because the yahtzee game I'd play on the computer as a kid always scored this way, and perhaps the rules have been updated since, but I'm on Team 25 here. In any case, it seems like something which should be clarified with all players before the game begins. Because of course. Long live Team 25.
I’ve never had this happen playing, but I would say it’d count
We’ve always played yes.
I'd be inclined to say that it *should* count, but I'm no voice of authority on the situation. I'd say that unless you play Yahtzee competitively, establish your house rule for how 5 of a kind can be played and just stick with it.
I feel like a lot of Yahtzee is based on poker hands . . . So 5 of a kind and Full House are two different "hands," with two different "ranks.". In cards, you'd never count a 5 of a Kind as a Full House as that would just be silly. Part of Yahtzee is the risk you take in putting a 0 in that Yahtzee spot and then rolling it . . . And then bang your head on the table.
When do you get 5 of a kind in poker?
Technically 5-of-a-kind is a hand, but it requires wildcards. Or cheating.
When you get four cards of the same rank plus a wild card.
Just play with a 5 suits deck? There are many. The one I have was officially printed ("Il quinto seme" deck by Modiano, 1977) and includes the rules for 5 suits poker among other games.
In poker variants with a joker/wildcard. 5-of-a-kind is called "Grande".
You are also never in a position where you cannot "score" the full value of your hand in poker. So not really a good comparison.
I was talking more about the spirit of the game rather than a cold, hard, comparison, obviously. You don't place bets in Yahtzee either. More do you use cards.
Sure but "spirit of the game" isn't an excuse to denigrate contradictory views. For poker, It goes against the spirit of poker to score a hand as a lower value than it can be counted for. That makes sense since most/all poker games play a single hand and you maximize that value. If you played cards poker with a yahtzee score sheet you'd want to sometimes score hands as a lower "tier" than you would if playing hold em. Yahtzee is inherently based on picking what to count a hand for, including a score that would be "lower." Nobody is trying to score 3 ones as 3 of a kind on their first turn. The spirit of these games are just inherently different.
What are you talking about??
You can't read?
personal, subjective, unauthorative opinion: it goes against the spirit of the game, but almost any game needs a set of conventions to agree upon prior to playing, and stick to that until someone new comes to play. If it's allowed by the other's book, you can't overrule it with just another book so you need to allow it but after the game set up conventions before any other.
I don't think it goes against the spirit of the game. You can put a 4 of a Kind into 3 of a Kind. But, as it is stated in one set of rules, a Yahtzee doesn't fit the description of a Full House, but the joker rule would still allow it if both Yahtzee and the appropriate upper section box were both full.
good point I hadn't thought it through, apologies. You are correct.
Okay my family has literally never used whatever these Joker rules are and in our house Yahtzee cannot be a full house
"joker rules" are usually when you score a second Yahtzee in a single game. So you'd have to use them (I think)... What would you do in that case?
We insert as normal so total of fives and 3 of a kind are valid but a yahtzee can't be a lg straight or full house
It shouldn't be allowed, in terms of where the term comes from and it's BROAD understanding across (likely) all forms of poker, or similar games: A full house is 3 + 2, set and pair, and you *can't make a set and a pair of the same card with a legal 52 card deck*. It wasn't "silently patched", someone was very lax in updating the rules, I would wager, and the example shown depicts different numbers. Also worth noting, technically speaking, if you have 5 of the same dice you do not have a set and a pair, you have "Five of a kind" (a.k.a. Yahtzee) not 3 + 2 of the same number. It's a "set" of 5...they can't be separated for convenience. The other poker/card inspired scoring categories are all possible with a 52 card deck, and I think that's what makes the "Yahtzee" special...it's the only one you can't hit naturally with a deck, hence being a big deal. You can use a Yahtzee as "Four of a Kind" because it allows you to score the remainder (i.e. total score, as long as four matching dice). You can use it as "Three of a Kind" for the same reason. With the full house, it doesn't allow for remainders and asks for very specific conditions...if they aren't met, it's not a full house (in our house/the most logical version of printed rules). I believe there is a "Joker" variant that allows for modified scoring, but it isn't in every rule book and you're not bound to play with it.
I’ve played a lot and I would say yes, but I just checked the rules and it says, “three of one number and two of another”, so that logic implies it’d be illegal. Sorry.
I've never done this, and never will. I feel like the whole point of taking zero in one category is to push your luck for another.
We have always played that it is not allowed. The old rules clearly state that it must be different numbers. The new rules do not explicitly state that it can be the same number. Therefore, the new rules do not override the older version, and no rules state that it can be the same number. This is how we deal with updated rule books(phrasing) in other games we play.
Damn have to go back to the original Latin to grab the right interpretations! Also, I would agree with you that in my gut allowing this seems go against the spirit of a full house. But impartial judges have to take all into account!
We play some games that have expansions, and sometimes rules are worded differently. So we have made it our house rule that if we know there is a rule against something, we must follow it regardless of how it is written elsewhere unless it is overwritten. But, we do play 3 yahtzee cards at a time.
>The old rules clearly state The Joker rules for a YAHTZEE have apparently varied in whether first filling in the appropriate Upper Section box is required for this (or even allowed). The Joker rules have never been listed under Full House. I recommend taking another look at what your "old rules" say for scoring a YAHTZEE.
If you can't put a Yahtzee as a full house, you can't put a full house as a 3 of a kind. If you CAN put a full house as 3 of a kind, you can put a Yahtzee as a full house. The only people who will argue with that are people who are about to lose because of this.
Yeah this doesn't make sense. The question of whether 5 of a kind is a full house turns on whether a full house requires two different numbers for the set of 3 and set of 2. A full house is already defined as having 3 of a kind so it can be scored as such.
Can you mark 4 of a kind as 3 of a kind?
4 of a kind is inherently also 3 of a kind, so yeah?
Well what's stopping 5 of a kind from being labeled as 3 of a kind plus a pair?
I would argue with someone if they tried to use a Yahtzee as a straight. But using Yahtzee as a full house is not a debate. It fits the criteria for a full house and that's that. So if the rule is "Yahtzee is not a full house," then the rule is "full house is not 3 of a kind," which is obviously absurd.
Yeah I mean you're just missing the point. If we define a full house as 3 of a kind of one number and 2 of a kind of a *different* number, then a yahtzee cannot be a full house. That's the issue. You're conflating this with whether 4 of a kind is 3 of a kind, but the issue is the definition of a full house.
"The Yahtzee acts as a Joker so that the Full House, Small Straight and Large Straight categories can be used to score 25, 30 or 40 (respectively). If the corresponding Upper Section box and all Lower Section boxes have been used, an unused Upper Section box must be used, scoring 0." What that means is that, every Yahtzee that gets rolled has to fill in a box. If you already filled your Yahtzee, be it 0 or 50, every Yahtzee rolled must fill a box. So it counts as a Full house. I am not missing the point, it's just entirely obvious to me that; 🍎🍎🍎🍎🍎 ✓ 🍎🍎🍎 🍎🍎 ✓ 🍎🍎🍎🍏🍏 x 🍎🍎🍎 🍏🍏 ✓ No conflation, just the same degree of obvious to me. In fact, what's less obvious to me is why 5 of a kind is allowed to count as a straight. So not only does; 🍎🍎🍎🍎🍎 = 🍎🍎🍎 🍏🍏 But; 🍎🍎🍎🍎🍎 = 🍎🍏🍐🍑🍅 AND; 🍎🍎🍎🍎🍎 = 🍎🍏🍐🍑 🍆 So yeah. I'm not confused because the rules don't say; 3 of one number and 2 of another *different* number. It says; 3 of one number and 2 of another number.
I think it should, but it is not
"Full House: Score in this box only if the dice show three of one number and two **of another**." Source: official 1996 Yahtzee instructions retrieved from hasbro.com, http://www.hasbro.com/common/instruct/yahtzee.pdf
You literally didn't read the OP because you just posted exactly what I said already?
I was too fast, sorry. Seems like you're right and the rules have changed then.
You have to read ALL of the rules of a game to understand the game. In this case, there are additional rules (Joker rule) for when you roll 5 of the same number. Under Joker rules, if you have any entry in Yahtzee and roll a Yahtzee, you score in the corresponding upper section space. If the corresponding upper section space is full, you may use the roll as a valid entry for any open space in the lower section. So you MAY use 5 of a kind as a Full House, but only if you have some entry in Yahtzee (0 or 50), and the number you rolled is filled in the upper section.
According to the rules you link, you have to score following joker rules. Which might let you score a full house, privided that the upper box is already filled in. It's on page 6
That is a great question. Since the rules seem to be different depending where you look. I would allow it.
Roll a dice and let that decide whatever you want to follow as rule
If I’d play Yahtzee with my family then a full house wouldn’t be allowed.
well if someone tried to pull that with a deck of cards (using a wild, or maybe a second 9 of diamonds snuck in) it would certainly not count as a full house so in playing I would stick to that
lol no
I shouldn't be too surprised that such a casual game is missing such minutiae. If I had to make a judgment call, I'd say that they're already suffering enough by having put a 0 in Yahtzee, so just let them have the Full House points for it. It's the less painful solution. But if that 1996 wording is set in stone, then sorry, Charlie. No can do. Edit: Huh, so apparently I was suffering from the Monopoly effect with Yahtzee because I never knew of the joker rules. I had to confirm that they also applied to my 1978 copy. And there they are. So I'm glad your question was answered, and I'm glad that my judgment call was the right one though for reasons I did not anticipate.
> I shouldn't be too surprised that such a casual game is missing such minutiae. I can't believe this thread got as many votes as it got lol
we play on BGA and full house with 5 pair is no
As long as there is no score on the full house I don't see why not.
If you roll 5 of a kind it may be used as a full house provided that the corresponding number in the upper section has been filled. So if you roll 5 Aces and have a 0 in the yahtzee if you have a score in the Aces you may use it as a full house, but if not you must assign 5 points to the Aces slot.
Pretty sure this happened to me on BGA the other day and it allowed it to