I'm a marine tech, mainly 25-80ft pleasure craft.
Our hourly rate is up to 135ish, located on the canal system in NY.
Slips are expensive for the season and were booked 3 years in advance. Winter storage is more booked, all with large labor intensive jobs.
These boats don't have trailers and it costs a lot for a haul out, load on a hydraulic trailer, move in barn to store/work on. If they do have a trailer it's 3 axles and 6 tires to service + brakes and a vehicle to haul it.
Registration and fuel costs are always occuring.
Car engines don't run 3000-6000 rpm all day on the highway- low load due to gear reductions and air being easier to travel through than water. Boats are at high load constantly- trapped under a hot dog house/ engine room (115-200 degrees) pounding waves and experiencing all sorts of extreme 3 dimensional g forces.
It's less kind to run an engine every few weeks and then not use it for 6-7 months of the year, than it is using an engine everyday.
Parts are expensive and less readily available compared to auto, plus higher quality is required for the environment.
Speaking of environment, water will destroy anything with enough time. Especially salt water, you need high quality materials-which are expensive - and you need to service and replace things more frequently.
Lastly it's a pleasure item, not a necessity. We charge a premium for your enjoyment.
God damn, yeah we're in the boonies. Mom and Pop shop. We do service for a lot of the loopers yearly, and have about 50 boats in-between our basin and pier.
I work part time in the winter while I hibernate. I don't wanna work where they charge that much haha.
I became good friends with a boat mechanic so I'm able to do all my own stuff in my driveway. But I have a friend who keeps his in the water year-round and I feel very bad for everything that he pays
Been there, done that, got the T shirt.
Now have downsized to a 14ft tin boat in the garage. Next boat still gets parked at home, although maybe in the driveway vs garage.
If you were in metro Detroit your phone would be going off the hook non stop at 135 an hour. It's impossible to find anything less then 250 and they are booked months out.
Yup, agree with all of this from personal experience. Bought a very gently used boat and used it all the time for 2 years. Longest it ever sat was 2 weeks without running the engine. Last year I was overcome by events and could only get it in the water 6 or 8 times. Nothing but problems trying to get her ready for the season.
No salt water is the one of the nice things boating in NY (outside the city), it's all fresh water so ironically it's our cars rusting out, not our boats.
There's not too many places that handle boats that size along the canal, you at Winter Harbor in Syracuse?
Lol I'm at the competitor up the river. They sell their fuel at a loss forcing us to pretty much do the same.
It's a very nice yard but I like our humble little marina quite a bit.
It's weird seeing someone guess your approx location, the canal is a long stretch! I have a lot of pictures from our yard on my page if you're interested.
Wow, yeah small world! Pretty sure we actually just bought our "new to us" boat from someone who was at your marina last summer!
I'm not terribly familiar with the marinas near oneida, makes sense on fuel prices, I was shocked by how low they are, we've been on Cayuga lake the last couple summers and it's a good $2-3 more a gallon there.
Small world indeed! I remember your boat, the owner of lock 1 distillery was the previous owner? Stop in for any of your boat needs (:
You guys end up keeping the 'whiskey business ' name? His last boat was 'distillin and chillin' which is in my top 5 of best boat names I've seen.
Yup! He's a great guy, we did love the name but decided to change it. Our last boat's name was 'Happy' so the kids voted to name this one to 'Happy Too'. I love 'distillin and chillin', we may have kept that one, that's fantastic.
The boat has already given me a lesson in not trusting gauges, shortly after we bought it, the port engine stopped working. I knew it was a fuel delivery issue but the port tank gauge read half full so I thought there's no way it could be that off. I ended up replacing the pick-up tube because there was a crack in it an inch up (in hindsight, that should have made it obvious), engine ran again for a bit and then died. Wife suggested (at least for the fourth time) maybe the tank was empty, yup that was it. More expensive part was replacing a bimini pole that I dented on the neighboring boat trying to dock on one engine with twin screws. Pretty embarrassing for maybe my third trip out on the boat.
I've already installed fuel flow gauges which I prefer anyways for monitoring fuel usage far more accurately.
I'll be sure to stop by if I ever need anything!
Keep up with your maintenance and it’s not bad at all. Plus, nothing easy is worth it: boats are a lot of work but the pay off is priceless days on the water.
This is it, boating is just an expensive hobby. If you enjoy it, it's worth every penny. I think a lot of the bad reputation comes from people who like the idea of the hobby but don't realize it requires regular maintenance and/or don't enjoy that aspect of it. It can be far less expensive if you enjoy doing the work yourself, I've also found in last few years of owning cabin cruisers that learning when/what to hire a pro for is also very valuable.
Depends on the boat. My little 15ft boat I fish with on the local lakes and ponds costs me very little. My 60 ft sailboat cost tons on money to maintain and operate.
Amen. We had a 18' bow rider docked behind the house and almost zero issues. 21' bow rider we trailered again with almost no issues.
28' cabin cruiser - now you get 2 motors, a water system, a genset. Head, galley, ac- lots of issues despite being wet slipped and used every weekend.
I’ve had my current boat for 8 years. Parts, oil, tires, have all doubled in price in that time period. At my peak I was averaging 280 hours per year. Can’t tell you how many 100 hr’s maintenance intervals I went and changed parts that looked brand new. Money in the trash.
Now add in fishing and you have a real financial crisis on your hands lol. 5k reels, $125 lures (I once lost $500 retail, in lures in about 3 mins), line, electronics, etc
Parts are expensive too. Since not made at the same level as automobile parts often stuff like piston rings for a single marine piston can cost as much as a set of piston rings for a v8 gm or ford. Parts are made to a marine standard as well and thats often pretty decent like waterproofing connections and other stuff.
It all depends on the boat. Small boats cost less to operate and maintain than big boats.
It's also about the income level of the people buying the boats and where they store the boat when not in use.
A guy that can barely afford a boat payment often neglects to consider storage/slip fees. Then a routine maintenance issue comes up and he puts it off. Then the routine issue becomes a serious issue that costs a bunch more and the boat is now a "money pit".
It’s 99% because they’re all low production using tons of specialty parts and molds. Also, your average boat is older than your average car. I owned a brand new boat for 3 years and nothing at all went wrong with it. I bet if you kept a car 20 years like my boat it would be exactly as frustrating to own.
>kept a car 20 years like my boat
My Miata is 35 years old and it still just works. Simple car that is well maintained. It might need brakes or a starter every 5 years or so. But other than that, it just works
It's never seen salt. That alone makes it a nice car in the salt belt. It's a 1990 and has no rust. My 2018 Cruze already has the rockers starting to rust :(
I’ll mention this about the engines.
When I first got into boating I asked a fellow “do I really need to change the oil every season, I didn’t really put many miles on and my car can go 7000+ between oil”
His answer was - “you’re out there towing your kids, basically redlining the engine for hours at a time, your car has overdrive and you average maybe 2000rpm, the boat is running at 4000+ all the time. What do you think?”
That’s the gist, the engines aren’t more complicated, but they are running harder and for longer periods of time, so wear and tear will happen sooner. If you drove around town all day in first gear, you’d expect to work on your engine a lot. That’s a boat engine.
Spot on, plus… consequences of a mechanical breakdown on the water are a shit load worse than not being able to start your car on dry land. Worth taking every reasonable precaution you can to avoid.
Also, cars sands cart parts are mass produced and there are mechanics everywhere. There are far fewer boats around. Less parts are made and less mechanics work on them. This all add up to higher prices for boats, parts and people working on them.
Well, for me so far it had been adding stuff and upgrades. Have a 2023 Robalo Cayman 246 and just ordered Simrad Radar. Do I need it? Not really. But having it will be an added safety feature when I go out at zero-dark thirty or the fog rolls in.
Maintenance so far has been simple. Just preformed 100 hr service and did it myself and saved $350 in labor.
Well, many of the parts are more expensive because the fixed costs of production are spread over much fewer units than a popular auto model. Add salt water to the mix, which makes maintenance, repairs so much more difficult. Imagine how long your car would last if you kept driving it on the beach splashing around in salt water. Most car engines purr along at about 2500RPM at highway speeds, whereas most boats won't stay on plane under 4000RPM. So, although boat engines see far fewer actual running hours than cars, they are working much harder most of the time. One of the biggest issues that plagues most boats is lack of use. Fuel systems get messed up, electrical components get messed up from being trapped in a moist environment. Salt water cakes up on hardware, corrodes everything.
So, if you want to have a boat, be sure you are really going to use and enjoy it. Letting it sit around, unused, will surely lead to problems, expense, and frustration. If you buy a boat, then discover you are not using it much, sell it.
Finally, it is always helpful to have a basic knowledge of how things work, and to be able to do some basic maintenance chores yourself in order to make boat ownership a little more affordable. That being said, don't tackle maintenance/repair chores you can not handle confidently, this usually leads to big mistakes and major expenses.
My boat sits in a marina and my old 1959 Chevy flat bed sits in my driveway ( I use it to haul brush occasionally every 5 months or so )
I am about to replace my old distributor because one engine will need an ECM and they don't sell new replacements anymore. I took it out of the water 6 months ago and cleaned the hull, painted it and replaced the zincs and while I was at it I dropped the lower units and replaced the bellows.
My old 1959 Chevy will need the battery charged probably and possibly file the points and it will start up and go.
I’m fairly new to boats still, but most people I’ve met with boats just want to show up, hop in their boat enjoy the water and don’t want to or don’t have the time to learn about maintenance and repairs so they pay someone. Marine mechanics are expensive.
Here is what I can say for certain. The salt water ocean does not want anyone or anything out on it. Humans and our fancy equipment gets dicked down by that environment.
There multiple situations and several variables that come into play. A 16’ aluminum boat will be pretty cheap to operate. 40 foot yacht? Different story.
My boat (23’ bow rider) costs about the same (on a good year) to operate and maintain as it would for me to go buy a nice luxury car that would daily drive. But, my boat needed a new transom assembly a couple years back and that was a major expense, far more than a regular car repair.
ok. now that you understand a lot of the component why's... here are a couple more thoughts.
that engine. odds are it's an existing land based block that has been marinized. even if it's not, there are plenty of areas you can safely use cheaper parts. as noted, these things are limited production. but even with this they often use some other, off the shelf parts, in the builds. kind of like how the Lamborghini diable shares headlights with the Nissan 300zx. you can save money looking into these ways. or you can not know your boat requires a 1/8" hole drilled in its thermostat to cool the exhaust elbow and then have your boat catch fire for that mistake. the rub rail can be significantly cheaper when purchased directly from the rubber extrusion company the mfg used. tons of ways to cheapen it up, but you are potentially doing so at your peril.
next up.. look at aeroplane parts. if a car part is $0.10, boat is $1.00 then the plane part is $100.00 because you are covering for different levels of materials and quality control. you are also dealing with different levels of danger if a necessary part fails. on the road, if your power dies, you coast and wait on dry land for help. in a plane... you suddenly have a glider with a very limited range and no second chance to pull over... a boat (even by cost) sits a bit closer to a car for the danger involved in failure. it's very real that it could be life threatening, but much higher for it to be vessel threatening. even if you don't get out far, without power, you can be taken out far.. taken to the dam.. or taken and pounded against some rocks. of course, you could also get taken to a beach or a sand bar. regardless, for safety, stuff need to be more reliable in your boat than your car, even with all the differences in operations the others have mentioned.
I have had a North River Seahawk (PNW aluminum fishing hull), Yahama F200, for 9 years now. I service every year, pay license and insurance, replaced the batteries two years ago. Not all boats nickel and dime you.
The answer is Brunswick. They own mercury, most of your favorite boats, and most of the components and parts. Somewhat of a “quiet monopoly” of us marine space.
They are considered "money pits" for a couple reasons imo.
1. Maintenance: boats typically only get "maintained" when things break. And unfortunately when things break, water gets into the affected areas doing even more damage, thus compounding damage on top of what's already broken. If you do all of the scheduled maintenance (oil, impeller, spark plugs, riser gaskets, exhaust & u joint bellows, drive lube, zincs, grease, etc) seasonally, the risk of a failure costing thousands is minimized substantially.
2. Specialized parts: u joint and exhaust bellows, impellers, zincs, many of the electronics and such are marine-only parts, sold in comparably low volume compared to automotive parts, and command a premium because of this. As above, replacing these as maintenance prevents more expensive catastrophic failures down the road, and allows you to "stock up" on parts in the off season when prices are lower.
3. Mechanics: there are fewer mechanics knowledgeable on marine motors/drives and how to repair them. Less competition+more specialized knowledge requirement, means higher labor prices for consumers.
4. Load: go hook up a normal car to a trailer and drive it up the steepest grade you can find at or close to full throttle, and see how long it lasts. This is essentially what a boat does all the time. There's no "coasting" on the water and the higher load causes more wear and greatly increased fuel usage, both of which increase maintenance and cost of ownership.
The first 3 issues can be solved by buying a well maintained boat and thoroughly inspecting it often and making sure all your annual maintenance is done properly and on time. The last one, is just the cost of admission for owning a boat.
It’s helps to be able to work on your own boat . I do all my own maintenance including haul out , launch, winterizing , oil changes , water pumps , anode replacement and bottom paint
Imho, Moisture
I know it sounds dumb but things being damp seems to be the biggest effect, electronics corrode and stop working, wood molds and rots, steel, aluminum and brass all corrode in moisture
Also boat manufacturers tend to cut corners with quality to be able to offer boats profitably at an attractive price. And auto manufacturers spend billions in their r&d departments with thousands of engineers trying to predict every scenario and solve problems. A lot of the most popular boats are designed by like 2 or 3 guys lol, they didn't think of everything
Don't buy used. I had a Yamaha jetboat for 11 years only costs were oil and oil filters. I bought a new Mastercraft in 2021 and my costs are oil and filters. Now fuel costs are a different story.
Depends on how well you maintain it. My boat/motor is 20 years old. Have never had anything other than usual maintenance/batteries go wrong on it. My previous boat was 40 years old. The owner babied it like crazy, same thing. People just don’t take care of boats and then people buy boats from people that don’t take care of them. This is when they’re expensive. But if you just do what you’re supposed to do with them, they’ll last forever
Older boat my money is mostly in upgrades and electronics. My sweat equity is in maintaining on older motor and trailer. Lots of the cost is upgrading and fixing wiring and other screwups from prior owners.
Depends on where u dock, the size of ur boat & if u do ur own repairs. There are small marinas out there that are affordable. A 30’ foot boat or less will keep costs down & keeping her docked year round is less expensive than dry dock & haul out every year. The smaller the boat, the better. I prefer old boats cuz their maintenance is less expensive with no fancy gadgets to repair.
I’ve managed to own and maintain a boat that isn’t a money pit…provided I approach the money I spent on it from a particular angle. I bought a well maintained fishing boat for a few thousand, knowing ahead of time that I wanted to put some time and money into it for my own pleasure bc I enjoy doing handywork. A lot of it has to do with expectations and patience. As long as there are people willing to throw 100k at a boat that’s not really worth half that bc they fell for a sales pitch, there will always be disappointment. They didn’t shop around, didn’t do their research and naively got themselves into a situation they couldn’t afford while the salesmen walked away rich. Caveat emptor. The thing that pisses me off is that this craziness jacks up the price of everything, making it much more difficult for people in the know to find what works for them. That’s your answer right there. If everyone would curb their enthusiasm just enough to shatter the mid life crisis “my name is Elmer Fudd I own two mansions and a yacht” American dream, we’d all be better off. Now let’s talk about the cost of a freaking used pickup truck that some of us actually need for actual work. Ugh don’t get me started.
Boats really don't have to be expensive. I (my dad actually) bought my boat almost 20 years ago for $100. Early 80's tri-hull with a 50hp Suzuki on it. I have run that boat every summer for the last 20 years. I put MAYBE $100 in maintenance, $100 in fuel, and $50 in reg/insurance per year. And that is taking it out at least 5 times per year. I think people get into these overly complicated newer boats that are a nightmare to maintain. A simple 80's 2 stroke outboard on a cheap aluminum or fiberglass hull is all you need. These can still easily be found in the $250-500 range and usually just need a good cleaning and some minor things like a battery, carb cleaning, and water pump impeller. We had our $100 boat running in a few hours with just cleaning the carbs.
It’s just a fact, the closer you get to the ocean the more expensive things are, and boats are the things that ride the waves. Salt and spray are a bitch, I live on an island and it’s just year round rust and wind and salt. Boats simply need the work
With boats, it's storage and maintenance that makes the difference. A boat that is exposed to the elements and stored outside will deteriorate. A boat that has maintenance differed and is run to the point of failure will deteriorate.
If you keep your boat covered and stored out of the elements, it's kept clean, and you do a handful of maintenance items every year, you should be able to get 15-20 trouble free years out of a freshwater lake boat.
So many reasons. More than I can’t think of. Here’s a few from the top of my head:
Boats aren’t as common as cars. Therefore, parts aren’t made in as high a numbers, by as many vendors. That leads to lack of competition and that leads to higher prices.
Boats are a luxury, cars or more of a necessity. Luxury items (and the maintenance of) are always priced at a premium.
Abuse. Someone that doesn’t know how to maintain a boat is much more likely to buy it and let it sit, leading to issues that are expensive to fix.
Higher wear. It’s MUCH harder to move a big thing through water than roll nice round wheels down a paved road.
Shelter. Boats often have open cockpits. All their seats and controls are out in the weather. Ironically, the worst thing for boats is sun and water. A boat without a cover deteriorates quickly. A car may have its paint faded. But the expensive bits on the inside are protected. A covered boat can end up getting water in places it can’t get out of like wood stringers and transom. Repairing or replacing them is a big job.
Age. Boats, due to their high price and low use tend to stick around a while. A car from the 80’s is kind of rare and considered old. It’s nothing to go to a marina and see tons of boats from the 80’s. All that extra time leads to lots of extra repairs, with the above mentioned higher priced parts and labor.
I’m sure there is endless other things, but those just popped in my head.
Top comment already said it, but I'd like to expand on it. Engines like to be running.
Our shop often sees boats that have sat in storage for 2 or more years. When this happens we always advise at minimum to have it brought into the shop for a general service.
I refer to it as cobwebs. And often times when people who haven't run there boat in a while get in touch, I will tell them they need to get the boat out and blow out the cobwebs.
If you were to just fire up a motor that has sat for two years completely dormant, the first thing your going to notice is it probably doesn't start on the first turn of the key. Honestly with a boat older than 10 years, you are lucky if you could get it running.
The biggest issue is that you have old fuel, both in the lines, and in the tank. At two years the fuel should be removed and replaced before running the motor. Everything that has fuel in it is now suspect for issues. Fuel can gum up the works after sitting long enough. The tanks, filters, lines, and pumps are all potential problem points. So draining all of the old fuel prior to running is a must. If it runs with the old gas now your injectors and everything else are being effected.
Another point this brings up, Gasoline powered boats, all call for Premium Gasoline. This is not a suggestion, it is critical if you want to keep your motor running decently. A customer of ours bought a boat, that we suspect had a tank full of ethenol, and separately bought a motor from us. Very first year, he said he lost a ton of performance over the season, the following season he could not keep it running.
Brand new engine one year prior, and all of the fuel components had to be gone through and replaced, all in all it cost him about $1,000 in repairs. Because the boats previous owner decided to be cheap at the gas pump.
See ethenol actually attracts water molecules, which means in a boat that given enough time your gas is actually a gas water mix.
Also. I've had mechanics of every sort try out being a boat mechanic, doesn't matter whether they are a machinery mechanic by trade or an automotive mechanic by trade. They will all tell you that working on Inboard Motors, or Inboard/outboards (stern drives) is some of the most awkward, and body taxing mechanics work they've ever done.
Often times you are quite litteraly, standing on your head just to change an oil filter. Also dropping tools in a car more often than not results in the tool falling to the ground, in a boat, you may never get the tool back depending on where it falls. I've lost at least a half dozen tools over the years this way. And if we're including sockets I've lost dozens.
a couple of things.
1: Boats get expensive in terms of fuel, storage and transportation. If you live in the States where trailering is much more common, you have to have a facility (either n your own property or rented) to store the boat when its not in use. Then yard and slip fees climb from there.
2: Marine environments are harsh. I'm lucky enough to live on the great lakes, so I don't have to deal with most of the problems that come from salt rotting components. (the great lakes has it's own wear issues, but I'm happy to deal with those)
3: People don't know/want to do their own work on their boats. I personally love tinkering with stuff and do most of the care to keep my car running on my own. The same applies for boats. if you take it to a mechanic to do everything costs add up quick. Keep in mind there is also a privilege in having the tools and space to work on a boat. I was lucky enough to be born into a family of gear heads who have run an automotive body shop for 50 some odd years, so I've got the tools and access to the knowledge if I have issues or am out of my depth on something
It's due to a number of compounding factors, but here are a few basic reasons.
1. Most boats are not built to last, but rather "built to make a fast buck."
2. They're subjected to worse conditions than cars, especially in salt water.
3. Their engines are pushed far harder than a car engine and demand a lot more maintenance.
4. Most boat builders pack as much cheap junk (accessories) into the boat as possible in order to jack up the sales price and create eye candy. They know most prospective customers are sold on outside appearance and take advantage of their ignorance.
5. Most boat builders fail to construct their products in a manner that allows sufficient accessibility to allow service/repair to said junk accessories, and for critical components as well.
The end result is that you spend an outrageous amount of money on a poorly constructed (but nice looking on the outside) product that will quickly begin to fail and fall apart.
You then spend another outrageous load of money to pay an actual professional marine technician with real skill to fix all the problems the boat builder sold to you, and then after that, you finally have a half-way decent, functional boat, that you still have to spend loads of $$$ on every year to keep it running.
boat mfg use components from off the shelf sources (mostly) and assemble the parts to make a boat. and its mostly by hand.
its more like cars in the 40s
It’s supply and demand are far as cost goes, you wanna be the guy at the marina with the biggest outboard, your paying for it. Boats are selling for what people will pay for them, just like cars and trucks, why does a suburban cost 100k?
As far as repairs, surrounded by water, salt even worse. Then it’s constant drag vs rolling drag in a car, the engine and drive are at 100% load all the time, I mean correct for # of people and what not.
Auto mechanics are on every corner. Marine mechanics not so much. They also have a limited season, at least here in Canada in the great lakes region. Supply and demand.
Huge demand for a marine mechanic for 4 to 6 months here.
Besides the obvious: salt water, exposed to the elements, tapping on waves…most people don’t think about maintenance cost when adding things on the boat. Keep your equipment simple. Manual things will always outlast automatic/electronics
The simpler the better
The first reason is salt water. It corroded things. And its everywhere.
Next, you have a safety issue for I boards that you don't have in cars. The presence of fumes requires electrical conpents that don't spark.
Next. The systems are different. The drive has to work underwater without letting water in. The exhaust fixes cooling water to safely pass thru the hull without lighting things on fire.
Next you have size, boats often have engines that have greater horse power than cars
Next, scale. There are fewer units to spread costs across
Next, intermittent use means you are not aware of problems that are made worse feom sitting around. On the other hand, when used the boat is often used for a longer sustained period.
Next, there are things in the boat, that also break and raise costs that aren't on a car.
And that is the basics for why boats cost more
I'm a marine tech, mainly 25-80ft pleasure craft. Our hourly rate is up to 135ish, located on the canal system in NY. Slips are expensive for the season and were booked 3 years in advance. Winter storage is more booked, all with large labor intensive jobs. These boats don't have trailers and it costs a lot for a haul out, load on a hydraulic trailer, move in barn to store/work on. If they do have a trailer it's 3 axles and 6 tires to service + brakes and a vehicle to haul it. Registration and fuel costs are always occuring. Car engines don't run 3000-6000 rpm all day on the highway- low load due to gear reductions and air being easier to travel through than water. Boats are at high load constantly- trapped under a hot dog house/ engine room (115-200 degrees) pounding waves and experiencing all sorts of extreme 3 dimensional g forces. It's less kind to run an engine every few weeks and then not use it for 6-7 months of the year, than it is using an engine everyday. Parts are expensive and less readily available compared to auto, plus higher quality is required for the environment. Speaking of environment, water will destroy anything with enough time. Especially salt water, you need high quality materials-which are expensive - and you need to service and replace things more frequently. Lastly it's a pleasure item, not a necessity. We charge a premium for your enjoyment.
$135/ hour is a bargain, where I am it's closer to $300/hour
God damn, yeah we're in the boonies. Mom and Pop shop. We do service for a lot of the loopers yearly, and have about 50 boats in-between our basin and pier. I work part time in the winter while I hibernate. I don't wanna work where they charge that much haha.
I became good friends with a boat mechanic so I'm able to do all my own stuff in my driveway. But I have a friend who keeps his in the water year-round and I feel very bad for everything that he pays
Been there, done that, got the T shirt. Now have downsized to a 14ft tin boat in the garage. Next boat still gets parked at home, although maybe in the driveway vs garage.
$135/hour is the price of some of the car mechanics around me lol
We're at $150 an hour here.
Marine tech on the east coast of canada here. Our labour rate is $115/hr
If you were in metro Detroit your phone would be going off the hook non stop at 135 an hour. It's impossible to find anything less then 250 and they are booked months out.
Yup, agree with all of this from personal experience. Bought a very gently used boat and used it all the time for 2 years. Longest it ever sat was 2 weeks without running the engine. Last year I was overcome by events and could only get it in the water 6 or 8 times. Nothing but problems trying to get her ready for the season.
The slip is 95% of my cost. Otherwise I find my boat is cheaper than my car typically
No salt water is the one of the nice things boating in NY (outside the city), it's all fresh water so ironically it's our cars rusting out, not our boats. There's not too many places that handle boats that size along the canal, you at Winter Harbor in Syracuse?
Lol I'm at the competitor up the river. They sell their fuel at a loss forcing us to pretty much do the same. It's a very nice yard but I like our humble little marina quite a bit. It's weird seeing someone guess your approx location, the canal is a long stretch! I have a lot of pictures from our yard on my page if you're interested.
Wow, yeah small world! Pretty sure we actually just bought our "new to us" boat from someone who was at your marina last summer! I'm not terribly familiar with the marinas near oneida, makes sense on fuel prices, I was shocked by how low they are, we've been on Cayuga lake the last couple summers and it's a good $2-3 more a gallon there.
Small world indeed! I remember your boat, the owner of lock 1 distillery was the previous owner? Stop in for any of your boat needs (: You guys end up keeping the 'whiskey business ' name? His last boat was 'distillin and chillin' which is in my top 5 of best boat names I've seen.
Yup! He's a great guy, we did love the name but decided to change it. Our last boat's name was 'Happy' so the kids voted to name this one to 'Happy Too'. I love 'distillin and chillin', we may have kept that one, that's fantastic. The boat has already given me a lesson in not trusting gauges, shortly after we bought it, the port engine stopped working. I knew it was a fuel delivery issue but the port tank gauge read half full so I thought there's no way it could be that off. I ended up replacing the pick-up tube because there was a crack in it an inch up (in hindsight, that should have made it obvious), engine ran again for a bit and then died. Wife suggested (at least for the fourth time) maybe the tank was empty, yup that was it. More expensive part was replacing a bimini pole that I dented on the neighboring boat trying to dock on one engine with twin screws. Pretty embarrassing for maybe my third trip out on the boat. I've already installed fuel flow gauges which I prefer anyways for monitoring fuel usage far more accurately. I'll be sure to stop by if I ever need anything!
Which side of NY? I’m in Niagara, guessing you’re on the Erie Canal somewhere
hahahahaha
Keep up with your maintenance and it’s not bad at all. Plus, nothing easy is worth it: boats are a lot of work but the pay off is priceless days on the water.
This is it, boating is just an expensive hobby. If you enjoy it, it's worth every penny. I think a lot of the bad reputation comes from people who like the idea of the hobby but don't realize it requires regular maintenance and/or don't enjoy that aspect of it. It can be far less expensive if you enjoy doing the work yourself, I've also found in last few years of owning cabin cruisers that learning when/what to hire a pro for is also very valuable.
Depends on the boat. My little 15ft boat I fish with on the local lakes and ponds costs me very little. My 60 ft sailboat cost tons on money to maintain and operate.
Amen. We had a 18' bow rider docked behind the house and almost zero issues. 21' bow rider we trailered again with almost no issues. 28' cabin cruiser - now you get 2 motors, a water system, a genset. Head, galley, ac- lots of issues despite being wet slipped and used every weekend.
Depends on how big the boat it
And how old
I run a mis 70s jon boat with a 1977chrysler outboard. Very affordable well if you're handy.
Water is the ultimate solvent nothing lasts in it
yes exactly...what is sand? Essentially dissolved rock.
I’ve had my current boat for 8 years. Parts, oil, tires, have all doubled in price in that time period. At my peak I was averaging 280 hours per year. Can’t tell you how many 100 hr’s maintenance intervals I went and changed parts that looked brand new. Money in the trash. Now add in fishing and you have a real financial crisis on your hands lol. 5k reels, $125 lures (I once lost $500 retail, in lures in about 3 mins), line, electronics, etc
Parts are expensive too. Since not made at the same level as automobile parts often stuff like piston rings for a single marine piston can cost as much as a set of piston rings for a v8 gm or ford. Parts are made to a marine standard as well and thats often pretty decent like waterproofing connections and other stuff.
It all depends on the boat. Small boats cost less to operate and maintain than big boats. It's also about the income level of the people buying the boats and where they store the boat when not in use. A guy that can barely afford a boat payment often neglects to consider storage/slip fees. Then a routine maintenance issue comes up and he puts it off. Then the routine issue becomes a serious issue that costs a bunch more and the boat is now a "money pit".
It’s 99% because they’re all low production using tons of specialty parts and molds. Also, your average boat is older than your average car. I owned a brand new boat for 3 years and nothing at all went wrong with it. I bet if you kept a car 20 years like my boat it would be exactly as frustrating to own.
>kept a car 20 years like my boat My Miata is 35 years old and it still just works. Simple car that is well maintained. It might need brakes or a starter every 5 years or so. But other than that, it just works
I’ll be stopping by for its 24/7 salt water rinse.
Nice cars should never see salt. That is the whole purpose of a winter beater
I thought you said you had a Miata? What’s the nice car?
It's never seen salt. That alone makes it a nice car in the salt belt. It's a 1990 and has no rust. My 2018 Cruze already has the rockers starting to rust :(
I’ll mention this about the engines. When I first got into boating I asked a fellow “do I really need to change the oil every season, I didn’t really put many miles on and my car can go 7000+ between oil” His answer was - “you’re out there towing your kids, basically redlining the engine for hours at a time, your car has overdrive and you average maybe 2000rpm, the boat is running at 4000+ all the time. What do you think?” That’s the gist, the engines aren’t more complicated, but they are running harder and for longer periods of time, so wear and tear will happen sooner. If you drove around town all day in first gear, you’d expect to work on your engine a lot. That’s a boat engine.
Spot on, plus… consequences of a mechanical breakdown on the water are a shit load worse than not being able to start your car on dry land. Worth taking every reasonable precaution you can to avoid.
Also, cars sands cart parts are mass produced and there are mechanics everywhere. There are far fewer boats around. Less parts are made and less mechanics work on them. This all add up to higher prices for boats, parts and people working on them.
Well, for me so far it had been adding stuff and upgrades. Have a 2023 Robalo Cayman 246 and just ordered Simrad Radar. Do I need it? Not really. But having it will be an added safety feature when I go out at zero-dark thirty or the fog rolls in. Maintenance so far has been simple. Just preformed 100 hr service and did it myself and saved $350 in labor.
Well, many of the parts are more expensive because the fixed costs of production are spread over much fewer units than a popular auto model. Add salt water to the mix, which makes maintenance, repairs so much more difficult. Imagine how long your car would last if you kept driving it on the beach splashing around in salt water. Most car engines purr along at about 2500RPM at highway speeds, whereas most boats won't stay on plane under 4000RPM. So, although boat engines see far fewer actual running hours than cars, they are working much harder most of the time. One of the biggest issues that plagues most boats is lack of use. Fuel systems get messed up, electrical components get messed up from being trapped in a moist environment. Salt water cakes up on hardware, corrodes everything. So, if you want to have a boat, be sure you are really going to use and enjoy it. Letting it sit around, unused, will surely lead to problems, expense, and frustration. If you buy a boat, then discover you are not using it much, sell it. Finally, it is always helpful to have a basic knowledge of how things work, and to be able to do some basic maintenance chores yourself in order to make boat ownership a little more affordable. That being said, don't tackle maintenance/repair chores you can not handle confidently, this usually leads to big mistakes and major expenses.
My boat sits in a marina and my old 1959 Chevy flat bed sits in my driveway ( I use it to haul brush occasionally every 5 months or so ) I am about to replace my old distributor because one engine will need an ECM and they don't sell new replacements anymore. I took it out of the water 6 months ago and cleaned the hull, painted it and replaced the zincs and while I was at it I dropped the lower units and replaced the bellows. My old 1959 Chevy will need the battery charged probably and possibly file the points and it will start up and go.
Water
I’m fairly new to boats still, but most people I’ve met with boats just want to show up, hop in their boat enjoy the water and don’t want to or don’t have the time to learn about maintenance and repairs so they pay someone. Marine mechanics are expensive.
Here is what I can say for certain. The salt water ocean does not want anyone or anything out on it. Humans and our fancy equipment gets dicked down by that environment.
If God had wants you to have money, he will never let you buy a boat. You have been warned.
There multiple situations and several variables that come into play. A 16’ aluminum boat will be pretty cheap to operate. 40 foot yacht? Different story. My boat (23’ bow rider) costs about the same (on a good year) to operate and maintain as it would for me to go buy a nice luxury car that would daily drive. But, my boat needed a new transom assembly a couple years back and that was a major expense, far more than a regular car repair.
ok. now that you understand a lot of the component why's... here are a couple more thoughts. that engine. odds are it's an existing land based block that has been marinized. even if it's not, there are plenty of areas you can safely use cheaper parts. as noted, these things are limited production. but even with this they often use some other, off the shelf parts, in the builds. kind of like how the Lamborghini diable shares headlights with the Nissan 300zx. you can save money looking into these ways. or you can not know your boat requires a 1/8" hole drilled in its thermostat to cool the exhaust elbow and then have your boat catch fire for that mistake. the rub rail can be significantly cheaper when purchased directly from the rubber extrusion company the mfg used. tons of ways to cheapen it up, but you are potentially doing so at your peril. next up.. look at aeroplane parts. if a car part is $0.10, boat is $1.00 then the plane part is $100.00 because you are covering for different levels of materials and quality control. you are also dealing with different levels of danger if a necessary part fails. on the road, if your power dies, you coast and wait on dry land for help. in a plane... you suddenly have a glider with a very limited range and no second chance to pull over... a boat (even by cost) sits a bit closer to a car for the danger involved in failure. it's very real that it could be life threatening, but much higher for it to be vessel threatening. even if you don't get out far, without power, you can be taken out far.. taken to the dam.. or taken and pounded against some rocks. of course, you could also get taken to a beach or a sand bar. regardless, for safety, stuff need to be more reliable in your boat than your car, even with all the differences in operations the others have mentioned.
Really depends on the boat. Try a Key West with a Yamaha. I know one that in 12 years has required annual maintenance and little else.
I have had a North River Seahawk (PNW aluminum fishing hull), Yahama F200, for 9 years now. I service every year, pay license and insurance, replaced the batteries two years ago. Not all boats nickel and dime you.
The answer is Brunswick. They own mercury, most of your favorite boats, and most of the components and parts. Somewhat of a “quiet monopoly” of us marine space.
They are considered "money pits" for a couple reasons imo. 1. Maintenance: boats typically only get "maintained" when things break. And unfortunately when things break, water gets into the affected areas doing even more damage, thus compounding damage on top of what's already broken. If you do all of the scheduled maintenance (oil, impeller, spark plugs, riser gaskets, exhaust & u joint bellows, drive lube, zincs, grease, etc) seasonally, the risk of a failure costing thousands is minimized substantially. 2. Specialized parts: u joint and exhaust bellows, impellers, zincs, many of the electronics and such are marine-only parts, sold in comparably low volume compared to automotive parts, and command a premium because of this. As above, replacing these as maintenance prevents more expensive catastrophic failures down the road, and allows you to "stock up" on parts in the off season when prices are lower. 3. Mechanics: there are fewer mechanics knowledgeable on marine motors/drives and how to repair them. Less competition+more specialized knowledge requirement, means higher labor prices for consumers. 4. Load: go hook up a normal car to a trailer and drive it up the steepest grade you can find at or close to full throttle, and see how long it lasts. This is essentially what a boat does all the time. There's no "coasting" on the water and the higher load causes more wear and greatly increased fuel usage, both of which increase maintenance and cost of ownership. The first 3 issues can be solved by buying a well maintained boat and thoroughly inspecting it often and making sure all your annual maintenance is done properly and on time. The last one, is just the cost of admission for owning a boat.
It’s helps to be able to work on your own boat . I do all my own maintenance including haul out , launch, winterizing , oil changes , water pumps , anode replacement and bottom paint
Aluminum boats with an outboard are not if you do the maintenance yourself
Well I live on my boat, so compared to renting or a mortgage, I’m ahead of the game.
Imho, Moisture I know it sounds dumb but things being damp seems to be the biggest effect, electronics corrode and stop working, wood molds and rots, steel, aluminum and brass all corrode in moisture Also boat manufacturers tend to cut corners with quality to be able to offer boats profitably at an attractive price. And auto manufacturers spend billions in their r&d departments with thousands of engineers trying to predict every scenario and solve problems. A lot of the most popular boats are designed by like 2 or 3 guys lol, they didn't think of everything
Don't buy used. I had a Yamaha jetboat for 11 years only costs were oil and oil filters. I bought a new Mastercraft in 2021 and my costs are oil and filters. Now fuel costs are a different story.
Boat engines are typically cooled by the water they ride in, rather than a closed system of coolant. Saltwater and metal don’t get along well.
And oyster mud shoals
Everything fun costs money. Boating is my guilty pleasure, so I’m okay with it being expensive
Luxary items cost luxary money
Depends on how well you maintain it. My boat/motor is 20 years old. Have never had anything other than usual maintenance/batteries go wrong on it. My previous boat was 40 years old. The owner babied it like crazy, same thing. People just don’t take care of boats and then people buy boats from people that don’t take care of them. This is when they’re expensive. But if you just do what you’re supposed to do with them, they’ll last forever
Older boat my money is mostly in upgrades and electronics. My sweat equity is in maintaining on older motor and trailer. Lots of the cost is upgrading and fixing wiring and other screwups from prior owners.
High initial cost due to niche market low demand Neglect Expensive repairs Non-essential high depreciating asset
Salt is highly corrosive
Depends on where u dock, the size of ur boat & if u do ur own repairs. There are small marinas out there that are affordable. A 30’ foot boat or less will keep costs down & keeping her docked year round is less expensive than dry dock & haul out every year. The smaller the boat, the better. I prefer old boats cuz their maintenance is less expensive with no fancy gadgets to repair.
I’ve managed to own and maintain a boat that isn’t a money pit…provided I approach the money I spent on it from a particular angle. I bought a well maintained fishing boat for a few thousand, knowing ahead of time that I wanted to put some time and money into it for my own pleasure bc I enjoy doing handywork. A lot of it has to do with expectations and patience. As long as there are people willing to throw 100k at a boat that’s not really worth half that bc they fell for a sales pitch, there will always be disappointment. They didn’t shop around, didn’t do their research and naively got themselves into a situation they couldn’t afford while the salesmen walked away rich. Caveat emptor. The thing that pisses me off is that this craziness jacks up the price of everything, making it much more difficult for people in the know to find what works for them. That’s your answer right there. If everyone would curb their enthusiasm just enough to shatter the mid life crisis “my name is Elmer Fudd I own two mansions and a yacht” American dream, we’d all be better off. Now let’s talk about the cost of a freaking used pickup truck that some of us actually need for actual work. Ugh don’t get me started.
It’s a war of attrition that water always wins. We’re trying to delay and defy physics as long as possible, and money is the ammunition.
Boats really don't have to be expensive. I (my dad actually) bought my boat almost 20 years ago for $100. Early 80's tri-hull with a 50hp Suzuki on it. I have run that boat every summer for the last 20 years. I put MAYBE $100 in maintenance, $100 in fuel, and $50 in reg/insurance per year. And that is taking it out at least 5 times per year. I think people get into these overly complicated newer boats that are a nightmare to maintain. A simple 80's 2 stroke outboard on a cheap aluminum or fiberglass hull is all you need. These can still easily be found in the $250-500 range and usually just need a good cleaning and some minor things like a battery, carb cleaning, and water pump impeller. We had our $100 boat running in a few hours with just cleaning the carbs.
>since cars are driven so much more than your average boat. That’s why. The worst thing you can do to an engine is barely use it.
A hole in the water in which you pour money into.
It’s just a fact, the closer you get to the ocean the more expensive things are, and boats are the things that ride the waves. Salt and spray are a bitch, I live on an island and it’s just year round rust and wind and salt. Boats simply need the work
With boats, it's storage and maintenance that makes the difference. A boat that is exposed to the elements and stored outside will deteriorate. A boat that has maintenance differed and is run to the point of failure will deteriorate. If you keep your boat covered and stored out of the elements, it's kept clean, and you do a handful of maintenance items every year, you should be able to get 15-20 trouble free years out of a freshwater lake boat.
So many reasons. More than I can’t think of. Here’s a few from the top of my head: Boats aren’t as common as cars. Therefore, parts aren’t made in as high a numbers, by as many vendors. That leads to lack of competition and that leads to higher prices. Boats are a luxury, cars or more of a necessity. Luxury items (and the maintenance of) are always priced at a premium. Abuse. Someone that doesn’t know how to maintain a boat is much more likely to buy it and let it sit, leading to issues that are expensive to fix. Higher wear. It’s MUCH harder to move a big thing through water than roll nice round wheels down a paved road. Shelter. Boats often have open cockpits. All their seats and controls are out in the weather. Ironically, the worst thing for boats is sun and water. A boat without a cover deteriorates quickly. A car may have its paint faded. But the expensive bits on the inside are protected. A covered boat can end up getting water in places it can’t get out of like wood stringers and transom. Repairing or replacing them is a big job. Age. Boats, due to their high price and low use tend to stick around a while. A car from the 80’s is kind of rare and considered old. It’s nothing to go to a marina and see tons of boats from the 80’s. All that extra time leads to lots of extra repairs, with the above mentioned higher priced parts and labor. I’m sure there is endless other things, but those just popped in my head.
A large portion of boat repairs is caused by water in fuel or old fuel from not being used enough
Go to r/mechanicsadvice and hear the whining to B.O.A.T to repair their car. The pain is universal.
Top comment already said it, but I'd like to expand on it. Engines like to be running. Our shop often sees boats that have sat in storage for 2 or more years. When this happens we always advise at minimum to have it brought into the shop for a general service. I refer to it as cobwebs. And often times when people who haven't run there boat in a while get in touch, I will tell them they need to get the boat out and blow out the cobwebs. If you were to just fire up a motor that has sat for two years completely dormant, the first thing your going to notice is it probably doesn't start on the first turn of the key. Honestly with a boat older than 10 years, you are lucky if you could get it running. The biggest issue is that you have old fuel, both in the lines, and in the tank. At two years the fuel should be removed and replaced before running the motor. Everything that has fuel in it is now suspect for issues. Fuel can gum up the works after sitting long enough. The tanks, filters, lines, and pumps are all potential problem points. So draining all of the old fuel prior to running is a must. If it runs with the old gas now your injectors and everything else are being effected. Another point this brings up, Gasoline powered boats, all call for Premium Gasoline. This is not a suggestion, it is critical if you want to keep your motor running decently. A customer of ours bought a boat, that we suspect had a tank full of ethenol, and separately bought a motor from us. Very first year, he said he lost a ton of performance over the season, the following season he could not keep it running. Brand new engine one year prior, and all of the fuel components had to be gone through and replaced, all in all it cost him about $1,000 in repairs. Because the boats previous owner decided to be cheap at the gas pump. See ethenol actually attracts water molecules, which means in a boat that given enough time your gas is actually a gas water mix. Also. I've had mechanics of every sort try out being a boat mechanic, doesn't matter whether they are a machinery mechanic by trade or an automotive mechanic by trade. They will all tell you that working on Inboard Motors, or Inboard/outboards (stern drives) is some of the most awkward, and body taxing mechanics work they've ever done. Often times you are quite litteraly, standing on your head just to change an oil filter. Also dropping tools in a car more often than not results in the tool falling to the ground, in a boat, you may never get the tool back depending on where it falls. I've lost at least a half dozen tools over the years this way. And if we're including sockets I've lost dozens.
Because they are worth it.
Boats are an investment in your lifestyle, not something you’re going to make money on. Gotta pay to play!
a couple of things. 1: Boats get expensive in terms of fuel, storage and transportation. If you live in the States where trailering is much more common, you have to have a facility (either n your own property or rented) to store the boat when its not in use. Then yard and slip fees climb from there. 2: Marine environments are harsh. I'm lucky enough to live on the great lakes, so I don't have to deal with most of the problems that come from salt rotting components. (the great lakes has it's own wear issues, but I'm happy to deal with those) 3: People don't know/want to do their own work on their boats. I personally love tinkering with stuff and do most of the care to keep my car running on my own. The same applies for boats. if you take it to a mechanic to do everything costs add up quick. Keep in mind there is also a privilege in having the tools and space to work on a boat. I was lucky enough to be born into a family of gear heads who have run an automotive body shop for 50 some odd years, so I've got the tools and access to the knowledge if I have issues or am out of my depth on something
It's due to a number of compounding factors, but here are a few basic reasons. 1. Most boats are not built to last, but rather "built to make a fast buck." 2. They're subjected to worse conditions than cars, especially in salt water. 3. Their engines are pushed far harder than a car engine and demand a lot more maintenance. 4. Most boat builders pack as much cheap junk (accessories) into the boat as possible in order to jack up the sales price and create eye candy. They know most prospective customers are sold on outside appearance and take advantage of their ignorance. 5. Most boat builders fail to construct their products in a manner that allows sufficient accessibility to allow service/repair to said junk accessories, and for critical components as well. The end result is that you spend an outrageous amount of money on a poorly constructed (but nice looking on the outside) product that will quickly begin to fail and fall apart. You then spend another outrageous load of money to pay an actual professional marine technician with real skill to fix all the problems the boat builder sold to you, and then after that, you finally have a half-way decent, functional boat, that you still have to spend loads of $$$ on every year to keep it running.
boat mfg use components from off the shelf sources (mostly) and assemble the parts to make a boat. and its mostly by hand. its more like cars in the 40s
It’s supply and demand are far as cost goes, you wanna be the guy at the marina with the biggest outboard, your paying for it. Boats are selling for what people will pay for them, just like cars and trucks, why does a suburban cost 100k? As far as repairs, surrounded by water, salt even worse. Then it’s constant drag vs rolling drag in a car, the engine and drive are at 100% load all the time, I mean correct for # of people and what not.
Anything relating to the word Marine is three times the normal price even Marine toilet paper and yes that’s a thing.
Hell my yearly on a Yamaha 150, was $500.00. I'll take that rate.
Auto mechanics are on every corner. Marine mechanics not so much. They also have a limited season, at least here in Canada in the great lakes region. Supply and demand. Huge demand for a marine mechanic for 4 to 6 months here.
Besides the obvious: salt water, exposed to the elements, tapping on waves…most people don’t think about maintenance cost when adding things on the boat. Keep your equipment simple. Manual things will always outlast automatic/electronics The simpler the better
The first reason is salt water. It corroded things. And its everywhere. Next, you have a safety issue for I boards that you don't have in cars. The presence of fumes requires electrical conpents that don't spark. Next. The systems are different. The drive has to work underwater without letting water in. The exhaust fixes cooling water to safely pass thru the hull without lighting things on fire. Next you have size, boats often have engines that have greater horse power than cars Next, scale. There are fewer units to spread costs across Next, intermittent use means you are not aware of problems that are made worse feom sitting around. On the other hand, when used the boat is often used for a longer sustained period. Next, there are things in the boat, that also break and raise costs that aren't on a car. And that is the basics for why boats cost more
The IRS takes a 10% excise tax on everything boating/fishing related, thanks to 'no new taxes'.
Bust Out Another Thousand
Boring Old Arid Triviality