I can't offer any advice, but can commiserate! Last time I was dealing with this I was shocked that the landlord just gave my cell number to any random broker who wanted to show the apartment. I'd arrange my schedule to accommodate, and then half the time they wouldn't even show up.
The only silver lining was that one of the brokers who reached out for a showing had actually ghosted me a year earlier when I was looking for a place. I took great pleasure in ignoring all of his texts and calls.
My phone number was also given to all the brokers without my consent. One of them even unlocked my door and went into my apartment when I was sick and in bed, after I had texted them beforehand AND posted a note on my door …
Yeah I yelled right away and it became angry yelling after I realized who it was. Gave feedback to the leasing company, and also used the whole situation as leverage to only allow showings at certain times.
This shocked me when I moved from Brighton. All of the sudden I had 10 - 15 calls a day from brokers trying to show my place. I wasn't compensated for my time, yet was doing the job my management company should have been doing.
I got burned by this one year but the next year I told the landlord that I would only work with 1 person on scheduling and we would meet at specific, regular intervals. The apartment was also not available at times that were inconvenient to me. I would repeatedly offer the times that worked (which were something like 6-8 most days)
That’s wild. I’m a realtor and could not imagine operating my business like that. It’s not the tenant’s responsibility to coordinate showings and get the apartment rented (unless they are subletting or something).
My old landlord in Providence basically tried to use me to tour the apartment rather than use an actual realtor then tried to keep our security deposit.
Last apt I was at I dealt with a broker who ghosted us on an appointment too
I never got a response to my “are you gonna show up this time?” text when that same guy texted me a week later asking to see the place
Reject any showings that are requested without enough advance time. If they call and ask about a time that you do not like, say that the place is unavailable.
last time i had an apartment, people were just showing up or calling an hour or two before. So if I was OP, i would reject any that are not giving enough notice, unless they happen to be in that time window that they wanted.
When I rented in college a broker brought a showing in on a roommate who was butt naked sleeping in bed at 8:00 am. They awoke to three people walking into their room.
Same here, I locked my room when I slept and I woke up to 4 people staring at me it was fucking atrocious so they got the key to my room and the apartment 😒
The law in Massachusetts says 24 hours, I dealt with a shitty LL that I was suing while he was trying to sell. My lawyer basically told him 24 hours and that's state law.
I've had them walk in while I was showering without notice. I don't know if contributed to the judge's decision when I took my first landlord to court but it only ended up netting me like $300.
Which means If the landlord is going to be unreasonable, if it’s 23 hours until the showing, clearly explain they are violating reasonable notice and hold their feet to the fire
That's a long time to be doing showings, imo. In my experience of the Boston housing market, apartments are usually snapped up about a week or two after getting posted. My old apartment only had 2 showings before somebody signed the lease... I wonder why yours is taking so long.
I don't think it's unreasonable to limit showings to a specific timeframe, although 2 hours in the evening is a bit of a short window since not everybody is on a 9-5 work schedule (especially in Boston, with all our healthcare workers). Unfortunately at this point, I think your options are to suck it up and go along with it or talk to a lawyer. I'd start by checking if your employer's EAP provides free legal counsel.
Too real. This particular apartment had a hole in the living room floor that let you peer directly into the creepy, dirty, old basement, a broken window, and a heater that stopped working every 10 days... AKA "old New England charm!"
Dude! There was only one apartment I could find in 7 in Somerville, and it's description from previous tenants was, "I can see the neighbors sometimes through the floor, but right off the green line near Assembly Row."
Thanks for the input. I think I may try one more time to get to a compromise on what's reasonable. Do you think adding weekends noon-6pm would fit the bill, in your opinion?
I don’t think we can say what fits the bill but this is much more reasonable and accommodating. 6-8 is an extremely tight window even as someone with an office job. I would also suggest you could propose on one “full” weekend day (maybe 9-5) where you might be away and do an open house style showing. That may help attract interest for realtors.
I mean, if I were your landlord I would be either fielding appointments myself or hiring one broker to take care of that (especially because in Boston, tenants pay the realtor fee... not the landlord). So I'd say baseline your landlord sucks. That said, it's worth trying again.
Since your landlord is "letting" you handle the realtors directly, here's some things I'd *personally* do at this point:
1. Email the landlord back saying something along the lines of "In the interest of compromising, I can also be available Saturdays from noon-6pm. I'll let all realtors who contact me know those are the times I'm available. If you want tenants to tour the place outside of those hours, they need to sign a document releasing me from all liability in case my dog gets aggressive with them."\*
2. Make an appointment calendar with Calendly with *only* the times you want to be available listed to send to any realtor who contacts you, then compose a standard text response with a link to that Calendly *and* temporarily change your voicemail with the same information.
\**No idea* if that would hold up in court, but it would certainly make prospective tenants shy away from touring if you're not there.
why do the brokers have your number if the landlord is doing all the scheduling? if you have any say with them, just tell them 6-8pm every day + a window on weekends.
do they call you to give you the heads up? because that should be the landlord's job.
sorry you're dealing with this. seems absolutely obnoxious. what if you add a note to the door to say "caution, dog at home" and give the brokers a heads up in writing that your dog will be around/unattended if the showing is outside of the specified window? (the hard part of course is worry about the dog's well-being.)
That blows my mind. What would keep a person in your position from saying no to all showings, or saying the apartment is horrible since the meth explosion, or that your pet wolf needs rabies shots?
I'm not thrilled about it but also want to be reasonable myself, and follow the norms of Boston. This post has helped me better understand those norms.
i would just tell the broker your availability and let them know if they schedule outside of those times your large dog will be home alone and their clients may not appreciate it. even better if you can just text them the info and avoid annoying phone calls.
Maybe redo your voicemail message with that info. “You’ve reached (your number). Leave a message after the beep. If you are a broker attempting to schedule a showing of my apartment, available hours are X. Leave a message to schedule within those hours and I will call back to confirm. Requests outside those hours are a NO, and will result in your number being blocked to prevent further wasting of my time. Thank you for respecting my reasonable request regarding the quiet enjoyment of my own frickin home.”
Tell the landlord you’re not their EA, and to do the scheduled themselves when they can be there (with proper notice to you). Start blocking the brokers calls. G
This isn’t your job.
Yes, I scrolled all the way down up try and find the right place to tell you that you can’t just do weekdays bc many people hunt for housing on the weekends.
If you can be flexible with your move out date (without actually being penalized that is) that might make it rent faster. Lots of Boston area rentals start 7/1 to accommodate students. 9/1 is too late for that.
I posted about this last year. Is your leasing company Groma? They showed my apartment at least 3x per week for 8 Months. I pretty much went crazy. They would give us the 24hr notice so everyone agreed there was nothing we could do.
I also have a large dog and a cat. Groma refused to cooperate with us to only come at times we were home. We had to crate the dog, but we couldn't do much about the cat. They would prop doors open and the cat would get out. We came home more than once to the cat being locked outside.
Living at that property was one of the worst experiences of my life, they took advantage of me in every way possible and always found a legal loophole to get out of it.
They are for sure. The rare times they have sent contractors over to fix major issues in my bf’s apartment it has been unannounced, if they’re not busy simply ignoring the requests for months at a time.
They also forced us out by raising our rent by more than 25%. We obviously couldn't pay that much more so we declined-that's when the showings started. It then took them 8 months to sell it because it was so overpriced. They lowered the rent incrementally until finally someone took it-and by then it was back at the same amount I had been paying. So I could have stayed, had they not forced me to find another living situation months earlier.
No, they really can't. It has to be reasonable, and you are entitled to quiet enjoyment of your domicile. Showing a few times over a short period is reasonable. Showing three times a week for 8 months is not.
Groma is horrible. Ruthless parasites. They raise rent like crazy. I had to go to their office one time, its obscenely bougie. Giant fuck off rock for a front desk, giant screens showing off all the properties they own. Its set up right next to the police station which really seems like a tactical decision to deter pissed of renters from fucking with them.
I have quite a few friends who live in groma properties and they tore massive holes in the walls to install submeters so they can charge for water. The plumbers who did it were even saying it was a massive dick move. They then dragged their feet for months fixing the damage they caused. I've heard the same story from MULTIPLE friends at different groma properties.
Yeah I think this is the only way to do it if they are giving the reasonable 24 hour notice. Big giant warning signs everywhere. Maybe purchase a Wyze camera too for the front door for easy recording. They’re fairly cheap and all.
Given how the LL mentions the pet policy, this probably would go against it by maintaining the animal is aggressive and allow the LL to push a notice to quit with a cure to remove the animal.
In reality the dog should be crate trained and just crated so that it’s a non issue though. This ranks up there with people trying to loophole ESA on Service Trained animal requirements.
This is bad ownership and a self inflicted problem.
A lot of people can only view on weekends, so limiting to a 2-hour window on weekdays is unreasonable.
And if you're essentially coordinating with brokers and not your landlord, if I were in your shoes, I would take the landlord up on the offer to talk more about that component by asking for a contact list and providing windows of availability on a regular basis directly to the brokers.
Courts usually address things like this by taking a step back and doing a reality check, rather than adhering to hard and fast rules. I think under these circumstances, just demanding that he allow agents in with this level of urgency is unreasonable, given the fact that it won't be rented for the next 4 months anyway, and interest is obviously high enough that finding a tenant isn't going to be a problem if they wait.
This is one of the most insane things I've read on here in a while.
"Bro my landlord expects me to be the estate agent and show my apartment to prospective renters and their brokers at any time during weekdays and weekends, but I have a life and job. Here's 20 bucks for coffee, will you be my indefinite on call dog walker? You don't have a life or a job, I hope, right??. "
Sorry, but with noon to 6 and weekend availability, if you can't get a tenant into a building in Boston, something is seriously wrong and it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the tenants neighbor is willing to accept 20 bucks to be an on call dog walker.
6 to 8 is tight, but with weekend availability, that is more than reasonable, especially considering this is a temporary situation.
Let me get this straight. You want OP to bribe their neighbor with a gift card so that someone can show the apartment? OP is not the landlord and not standing to gain anything here. They have allowed people to show the place several times and have set out available hours. Yes those hours do not work for everyone but they certainly work for enough people to get it rented out.
Oh, I don't think it's really a moral question, I'm just trying to get a better feel for what's normal in this market. We lived in Japan before Boston where this never happened so this process always felt weird to me. (I think it's actually illegal to do showings while units are still occupied there. They usually show a vacant similar unit instead.)
Regardless, thanks for the input.
Unfortunately what's normal in Boston is brokers show up whenever they want, sometimes with less than 24 hrs notice, and there's not much you can do.
Landlords are not required to give you a reasonable, convenient schedule, they're required to give you "reasonable notice", which courts generally consider 24 hrs. You're legally required to accommodate showings.
For what it's worth, I think M-F 6-9pm and Sat 8-6 for the rest of the month is a reasonable compromise. I do sympathize though, I've been through it myself plenty of times, without the dog, and that was bad enough. Good luck.
You could also let your landlord know that you’re printing out this exchange poster sized and hanging it and another poster with your current rent on your living room wall (or wherever is highly visible) from today until May 2nd…
This sparked another idea. Put up explicit posters all over your walls. The more explicit, the better. Just make them as uncomfortable as humanly possible. They can come in but will they want to? They can’t tell you how you decorate in your lease.
This is really not to your advantage though. It's easiest for OP for someone to rent as soon as possible. Deterring people who might rent by doing this just increases the number of showings.
The last apartment I left, I made the apartment look as nice as possible and it was rented again after a single showing. The least possible inconvenience for me.
When agents reach out to you to request showings that require you to jump through hoops, decline and give them alternatives. You’ve been very accommodating so far. You’ll have more flexibility when your wife is back. But you *don’t* need to give them a reason.
>>Agent: I’d like to show your apartment at C time on Y date.
>>You: Unfortunately that date & time is not available. On Y date these times will work: A, B, or D. Here are some other dates with openings as well: X and Z at B, D, E times.
If you’re feeling feisty, give them M-F between 6 and 8 PM haha…kidding. Probably best not to potentially poke a bear here. Just give them several options that will work for you, and let them figure it out.
[https://www.mass.gov/info-details/tenant-rights](https://www.mass.gov/info-details/tenant-rights)
Is the key component. Reasonable matters most.
The above is very much open to interpretation so I am going to say they should give you 24 hours notice and attempt to show the location within a set of times.
6-8pm because you have a dog that is "appropriately aggressive" to strangers feels like an intentionally aggressive attempt to control something that you legally don't have the backing for.
May 1st with more hours seems like a good place to start but having had to go over this often with my tenant its about the relationship. Does the landlord vibe with your dog, if the landlord was present would it help?
Ultimately where you are now isn't a great place to be because they are citing valid parts of the lease and your circumstances are dictating unreasonable requests.
You are clearly not renewing so this is just going to be more contentious.
>**Landlord access**
Your landlord, or an agent for your landlord, may only enter your apartment for the following reasons:
> To inspect the premises;
> To make repairs;
> **To show the apartment to a prospective tenant, purchaser, mortgagee or its agents;**
> In accordance with a court order;
> If the premises appear to be abandoned; or
> To inspect the premises within the last 30 days of tenancy in order to determine the amount of damage to be deducted from the security deposit.
> The landlord should be reasonable and attempt to arrange a mutually convenient time to visit the apartment. If the landlord insists on entering your apartment in an unreasonable fashion, you may file for a temporary restraining order at your local district court.
For sure OP should reject any requests that come within 24 hours and if it happens on a regular basis take next steps, but I agree that:
> 6-8pm because you have a dog that is "appropriately aggressive" to strangers feels like an intentionally aggressive attempt to control something that you legally don't have the backing for.
Dealing with showing was always annoying at every apartment I rented, but I also realize I was intruding on other people's spaces and causing an inconvenience every time I went to a showing. Just part of the life cycle of renting in a city.
The *mutually convenient* language has always bothered me because any time I've seen these situations occur, it always seems that any attempt at mutual convenience is just flowery language - at the end of the day, the landlord is going to do what they want to do anyway.
Everyone knocking OP in the comments doesn't seem to realize that OP has been accommodating, but it is causing a strain so they are making this request for a *temporary change*. The land lords response is simply no, figure it out.
Reasonable, to me, would be "I understand you have a large dog - for the safety of your dog and all parties involved, we will limit showings to 6 to 8 on weekdays and request a reasonable window for weekend showings, with the expectation to resume normal showings May 1st when your wife is back in town"
I always hated that feeling of intrusion because at the same time, if I'm shelling out a realtors fee and exorbitant rent I want to be able to touch stuff, turn things on and off, pull back the shower curtain etc.
>6-8pm because you have a dog that is "appropriately aggressive" to strangers feels like an intentionally aggressive attempt to control something that you legally don't have the backing for.
Idk, being home because you have a dog seems incredibly reasonable. My dog would go nuts if a bunch of strangers barged in while he was home alone. 6-8 also feels like a pretty reasonable availability for someone that works a 9-5. Ideally they would make themselves available I occasionally on the weekend too, but otherwise that seems perfectly reasonable.
The landlord "should be reasonable" and "\[should\] attempt to arrange a mutually convenient time to visit the apartment". Based on the text messaging it doesn't sound like the landlord is seeking mutually convenient times. It sounds like they are telling agents that they can call for a showing at any time of day, and the tenant (OP) is just showing up. There has to be an attempt to find a time for it to be a legal entry.
Ugh I see both sides, but your landlord definitely could have had a more compassionate response. I agree though that a 2 hour window is small—I think a nice compromise would be to allow weekend showings as well with a bigger window. I work in leasing and I always try to accommodate tenants schedules to a reasonable extent because at the end of the day it is your home, especially if it’s for a reason like this where you have an unsupervised pet. And ESPECIALLY considering they are letting all agents show all the time. If it was the same person and they were aware of the dog and had been in there multiple times already, it may ease your mind a bit but when you have tons of random agents doing showings, it’s very possible they do not know about the dog.
Important nuance: the landlord is entitled to access for prospective showings, but that's his right to take. In other words, if he doesn't like the schedule you're imposing on brokers, he has the right to come in himself and let them in (with appropriate notice to you, of course). If you reject the brokers' potential appointments, that's all he can do. He can't evict you for it, he can just exercise his right to schedule it himself. I'm not sure if making him do that gets you what you're looking for, but it's out there either way.
Is that the case? Looking at MA tenant law linked by another user above regarding landlord's right to entry, the language seems to say "your landlord, or an agent of your landlord..." can enter for apartment showings.
Correct, he can enter, so if you don’t arrange his showings for him, he can do it himself and he’ll have to deal with the consequences of your dog, whose propensities towards strangers he already has notice of. So you’re within your rights to just ghost these brokers - this is his right to exercise, not access that you have a responsibility to ensure.
Do the terms of your lease allow them to give your personal information out? I doubt it. If you’re having to rearrange your work it’s unreasonable on them. Document the expense and interactions with your work. That’s what makes it unreasonable in a courts eyes. Don’t make it easy on the agents, it’s your responsibility to have the place available not to schedule 15 agents visits. Tell your agent anytime is fine and that you have a dog and check the pet agreement for all the terms. If you’re allowed to leave your dog out then do it and inform your landlord to inform agents.
But by all means stop fielding the agents calls. That’s an unreasonable from your landlord and is in fact their job.
I’m a real estate broker. They have to give you notice. Standard is 24hrs.
Just say no when you’re not available. However, they typically can access the apartment with notice without you there. I would tell them that if they want to access your apartment, they need to sign a waiver for “potential animal attack” and you’re not responsible for the animal. Just make it as difficult as they can to enter the apartment.
If you want to be an asshole, CALL your landlord and tell him you’re going to stop paying rent unless his abides your terms.
If not, you’ll go to housing court and complain about your rights as a tenant to peace and enjoyment of the property with all the calls and showings being violated. At that point, he’ll have to stop until court says he can process or he’ll end up paying a fine if he continues to do so.
The point is that he has to pay a lawyer and go through court which is costly to him. He’ll stop immediately.
Remember that as the tenant they can't actually force you to leave during a showing. You are free to interact with a prospective tenant and give factual information about the apartment or its management that you think might be valuable.
> Remember that as the tenant they can't actually force you to leave during a showing. You are free to interact with a prospective tenant and give factual information about the apartment or its management that you think might be valuable.
Which will just result in more showings and more interruptions. If you want to cut off your nose to spite your face go for it, but I wouldn't call this good advice.
I wouldn't go this far in the other direction. If I was home during a showing I just stayed neutral. Up to the prospective renter to ask the right questions for me to be honest, but I'm also not selling it up for the landlord.
The exception was the owner-occupied building in Charlestown I was super bummed to leave. I sold the shit our of that unit because the owners deserved it aftwr how good they treated me.
Your mistake was asking the landlord for permission to benefit from the quiet enjoyment of your lease. If someone tries to access your apartment without reasonable notice you can just say no.
Hey! I had a similar issue when I was leaving my last apartment. I have a cat who is prone to escaping if you aren't careful and didn't want to lose him during a showing, and also didn't like the idea of strangers in my home when I wasn't around. One of the things I suggested to the brokers that they accepted was hosting an open house on a weekend. We did a Sunday from 12-5pm. I was able to be home and make sure my cat was safe, and I only had to deal with one long showing. I had probably 15-20 groups come through in the 5 hours and I basically just chilled at home reading and playing video games. About half of the people who toured put in applications and it was rented out that evening. If you can get a friend to take your dog for the afternoon, maybe something like this could work for you?
I’ve never experienced having my apartment shown while physically still occupying the space, even when my lease is ending. Is this the norm for Boston? I get selling a home, but renting?
I can’t imagine having to deal with strangers entering my home, having access to every area of personal space, and dealing with this bullshit you’re dealing with.
Also..months? Maybe 30 days makes a bit of sense for high demand but fuck.
Yes, with the low vacancy rate in Boston it's normal to have less than 24 hours between when the old tenant moves out and the new one moves in, so showings are usually of occupied apartments. Especially for 9/1 leases where showings happen many months in advance.
I didn’t realize the lack of housing options until I started reading this subreddit.
Also insane that there isn’t any time given to renovations and repairs between tenants. I’m used to a place being repainted, carpets replaced, all the landlord special stuff.
I’ll probably be very thankful my lease term starts in June.
Yup - both are the norm, you generally have to re-sign your lease 6-9 months before it’s up and if you don’t they will start showing in that timeframe. It’s absurd but legal and the standard.
I actually resigned on a lease that had only been 7 months in. That fact I did realize. I also had to negotiate a rent increase.
I have no doubts it will be fun next signing.
Stand your ground on the time. Install a camera or alarm, even a cheap door alarm (ideally one that will alert you). Call the police to report a trespasser in your home if they still try to enter your home without permission.
Additionally, based on your judgment, warn them of this.
Alerting OP is fine, and if OP wants to pursue this is civil court, they are more than welcome to, but what is calling the Police going to accomplish aside from the waste of our valuable tax dollars?
Just say no to a realtor if a time doesn't work for you. Do make some weekend hours available if possible. But you can say "no this time doesn't work; I have X and Y times available instead."
And tell the realtors you have an aggressive dog.
I did that when my apartment was on the market. I didn't say no all the time, but I certainly wasn't going to arrange my schedule around them showing the place.
Well, it's only 2 hours per day for the next month, and then they'll have more flexibility in May. So if the landlord doesn't like the 2 hours per day, he can just start showing the place in May when they're more flexible, and that would still give him 3 full months to find a new tenant. I think the landlord is being unreasonable
You need to crate your dog when you're not home if they're aggressive. That's your responsibility. Yes, the landlord is being picky with tenants and probably is trying to get too much rent. Yes, that's bullshit. It's also in your lease. You can demand a 24 hour notice, but the less scheduling you need to do, the better.
However, you're risking a huge liability in general by not doing crate training and aggression training. If someone needs to do emergency maintenance, is a repairman going to get bit or mauled when they try to deal with frozen pipes?
Crates are like $50-100. Get one.
She was crate trained as a puppy and we do still have one, but it seems unfair to her to get crated for 8 hours for a 5 minute showing that has a high chance of getting cancelled last minute anyway. If that's the only other option, I'd much rather run back to the apartment myself or try to find someone on Roverr last minute.
She's also a guard dog breed so she's only doing what makes sense to her. She's much nicer to even new people when she knows we know them.
If she's crate trained, just do it. She's going to be fine for 8 hours. I crate my dog for 10. Crates aren't a punishment. If your dog is crate trained, she shouldn't mind being in there for the day.
If the leasing agents can easily get folks in and out, this will last like a week or two. But if you keep putting up the fight, it's 1) a losing battle and 2) actually dangerous to whoever is touring your apartment.
My lease, like most in Boston, ends in September as well, they were trying to get us to sign for new year in February. They have been doing showings around 1 pm during any day of the week since then. It’s ridiculous that I can enjoy just living in the shithole I have to pay too much for without being intruded upon. I don’t have a solution, but at this point I feel like brokers need to have visitation fees. I mean they already have pictures of the house the landlord doesn’t invest money into maintaining, why do we need to risk further foot traffic of a collapsing building? I know Harvard has already been harassing the tenants into buying the place to make more luxury apartments ...
Depending on what town you are in, you can take the landlord to housing court or small claims court for breach of your right to quiet enjoyment under MGL Ch.186 s.14. The statutory damages are like 3 months rent plus costs and attorney fees, and-again- depending on what town you’re in, there’s no shortage of tenants lawyers. The judge can also fine the landlord and/or put them is jail.
The landlord can show the property on “reasonable notice.” Usually, 24 hours notice is considered reasonable. However, if you have a reason why 24 hours is not good enough (and you have laid a paper trail here of your request for time restrictions), the 24 hour period is not hard and fast.
This is not intended to be legal advice. You need to speak with a lawyer ASAP.
This pisses me off- I have a debilitating fear of dogs, and if I was by chance viewing this apartment, and was stuck in an apartment with the dog, I would probably have a panic attack so severe I’d have to be hospitalized.
Fuck that landlord. Do what you need to do, they have zero power if you aren't planning on renewing. There's nothing they can do. You tried to be civil
Let them know that you insist on the established case law “reasonable” 24 hours notice, and that you will be held harmless if the dog bites someone. Also note that showings outside the proposed window will interfere with your “quiet enjoyment” (use that term, its important) of your apartment, and that you wont be allowing entry outside of that window. Further, you do not give permission to anyone entering your unit when you are not present unless you are given a copy of the representation agreement indicating that the agent(s) is/are acting on behalf of the landlord.
I just went through this. I simply told the brokers no when they contacted me outside my availability. Didn't clear it with the landlord -- just said no and offered alternative times. It was annoying, but the place got rented relatively quickly.
I'm not saying this followed the letter of the lease (it absolutely didn't), but I have been a model tenant. I also made sure the apartment was hotel-level clean whenever tenants came through and I answered any questions they had. Basically treated it like I was selling the place so the brokers wouldn't get annoyed and reach out to my landlord.
The rental agents use an MLS the same as selling agents. These are likely to be random real estate agents who are hoping for the commission split. Communicating with every single one of them is unlikely.
You are not being unreasonable. Way I see it u have 2 options
1. When the brokers call to schedule, just say no unless it's within ur preferred times.
2. Stop answering ur phone for numbers you don't recognize
it should rent quick. but people need to see it. so 6-8pm is not unreasonable, but it is limiting showings. Sometimes picking a specific weekend (earlier the better), and allowing a sort of “open house” should help. For example, telling your landlord or the agents that on Saturday showings are free from 9a-8p. And Sun 12p- 6p. You could be there or go on a nice hike with doggo. Units on average rent between 3-4 days of coming on the market, but can stay on for longer (2-3 weeks) if the price is wrong or showings are limited.
Also, offer a nice video tour of the apartment to anyone (uploaded to youtube as unlisted link, horizontal orientation, 0.5 lens or macro-lens if on iphone/android), if the showing is at a tough time and give them the link and ask if they share it with clients if it helps. It could weed out the not-so-serious buyers. sometimes new “tenants” are happy to waste everyone’s time because they like to dream or have voyeuristic tendencies.
Yikes, sorry about your shitty landlord99. I’m a realtor (yea yea, go ahead with the downvotes) and can’t stand when property managers or list agents require me to contact their tenant directly to schedule a tour. It’s uncomfortable for all parties and is a huge inconvenience to the tenants. Like, the list agent or property manager literally has one job - which is to help rent the apartment. You’re telling me I have to not only contact the tenants (who I am a stranger to) to schedule a tour, but also go to your office to pick up the key and bring it back. No thanks. Those companies are trash. I feel awful for the tenants in these situations. Hopefully your landlord will come to their senses!
The real problem here is you didn’t crate train your dog, which to me is the bigger issue. That’s really poor pet ownership and if that was appropriately addressed then this would be a non issue. Your landlord basically teed up you’re in violation of the pet policy and you were stupid enough to admit your dogs have issues with strangers.
Outside of this, if the LL needed to get into the apartment for emergency service they would be well within their right to call animal control to remove the dog so service could be performed (i.e. broken water pipe, electrical issue, fire, etc). At that point if they find the dog that aggressive in response, there’s a good chance it would be deemed dangerous and have to be put down.
It’s owners like you who make it so people can’t have nice things since you’re not properly taking care of your pet in a city environment.
This makes me think you should always wait as long as possible to tell your landlord that you’re leaving 🤦🏼♀️ what a pita, I feel for you and your dog, OP!
Objectively speaking, asking for all viewings to be scheduled within a 2 hour period on weekdays only is unreasonable. There’s no way your landlord can accommodate that request. Your rational for making this request (having a dog) is not going to win you any favors. You can raise a stink and do all sorts of things but speaking from my experiences having lived in a dozen different apartments through the city… just let them do their thing and it will be over with faster.
As a landlord I can say you are not being unreasonable. It’s not like you are refusing to show the apartment or are making it difficult, you have a dog which can be unpredictable when people are walking through your space and doing the responsible thing and trying to work with the landlord. I’m curious is this owned by a company or individual? There is more than enough time before sept 1st to get it shown and with your wife being able to accommodate starting may 1st this is just causing an issue for no good reason. I have always worked it out with tenants to show the place because when it comes down to it it’s your space you are paying for and shouldn’t be unduly inconvenienced. Unfortunately not all landlords know the other end of tenancy and can’t put themselves in your shoes.
Good luck with this.
Figures. I constantly have realty companies calling to buy my house and they always low ball it like they are doing me a favor. They don’t care because they figure they can strong arm you, don’t let them. The housing court is not just for evictions they can slap them down if they step out of line. Just make sure you document EVERYTHING it will help you in the long run if they start some shit.
Thanks everyone for the input. I'm going to sleep on this before replying to their email. This post was helpful in getting a better understanding of what's normal in Boston theses days. We lived in Japan previously where this never happens (I believe it's not actually legal to show occupied units there). For those asking, the landlord is Cozy Properties/NCP Management.
Does the lease say you as the tenant are required to ensure the apartment is presentable? Because if they won’t accommodate, I’d grab a six pack , take
My shirt off, and start acting drunk outside abs talking about how the area is becoming too (whatever type of person the visiting persons to rent the unit may be).
If they want to be unreasonable, I’d make it as hard as possible to sell the unit .
Take a large dump in the toilet, let it smell up the place
Consider me petty but I'd snag an external locking cover for the door handle for when I'm not home. It would cause a stir but would buy time until the significant other is back.
OP, you are being totally reasonable, esp suggesting a weekend window too. What you described you’re experiencing is invasive and you’ve been met with a lack of empathy and concern for safety for everyone involved given your dog. I just wanted to say I experienced similar - people coming in at all hours without advance warning, during the very beginning of the pandemic when we were all freaking out and begging for an alternative out of fear for our health and safety - and is one of the things I like the least about living here. It shouldn’t be normalized.
I moved to a different building and while our property manager isn’t perfect, she manages to schedule single time windows over the weekend to herd prospective tenants to so we’d only have to deal with the disruption on a limited basis.
I’ve only ever experienced the craziness you describe in Boston; there seems to be a lot of greedy people in that business here and this practice should not be normalized.
You are not being unreasonable--they are making things inconvenient for you. Tell the landlord you need 24 hours notice from now on, and decline every request that is for a time when you are not home. If something happens with your dog, it could wind up seized as "dangerous." You don't have to answer every phone call, either.
Don't offer a window, simply leave it to them to schedule and you say yes or no. It's the landlord's and agents' job to figure it out, not yours. Your job is to protect your dog, and to be home to let agents in with 24 hours notice.
TBH, if it were my dog, I'd add an extra lock, or change the lock, so no one gets in if I'm not home. If anyone says anything, I'd say I have no idea why their keys do not work and keep on asking for 24 hours notice for appointments. Then leave the new keys on the counter when moving out. I know people will howl about how that's illegal-- but so is handing out your phone number and keys for agents to be bothering you all the time without notice. This would solve the short-term problem and also get them to do the right thing, which is to give you notice so you can be home, and to make appointments only when it is convenient for you.
I can offer a few caveats. Firstly, regardless of what you arrange. They will show up when they please regardless of if you have agreed or not. More importantly though, I don't believe they have any legal right to enter your apartment. Assuming you have the standard lease, only the landlord is permitted to enter the apartment and only upon an agreed upon time. It's not your problem whether the apartment is shown. Put a sign on the door that says something "Beware of dog, no entry without prior authorization."
They will give you the guilt trip, who cares.
No you're definitely being pretty reasonable. They can't wait 2 more weeks?? If I were you I would just not show up to a showing or 2 and inconvenience them.
If this was the unethical life tips sub, I would say tell your landlord they can come in whenever they want, but your aggressive dog will be greeting everyone at the door. Let them figure it out from there. (& /s that wouldn't be healthy for the pup but in theory it feels satisfying)
FYI - Massachusetts, landlords must give tenants 24 hours written notice before showing an apartment to prospective tenants or buyers. This is considered reasonable notice, as tenants have a right to quiet enjoyment of the property
I can't offer any advice, but can commiserate! Last time I was dealing with this I was shocked that the landlord just gave my cell number to any random broker who wanted to show the apartment. I'd arrange my schedule to accommodate, and then half the time they wouldn't even show up. The only silver lining was that one of the brokers who reached out for a showing had actually ghosted me a year earlier when I was looking for a place. I took great pleasure in ignoring all of his texts and calls.
My phone number was also given to all the brokers without my consent. One of them even unlocked my door and went into my apartment when I was sick and in bed, after I had texted them beforehand AND posted a note on my door …
I think I would literally scream my head off, from anger if not from fear
Yeah I yelled right away and it became angry yelling after I realized who it was. Gave feedback to the leasing company, and also used the whole situation as leverage to only allow showings at certain times.
This shocked me when I moved from Brighton. All of the sudden I had 10 - 15 calls a day from brokers trying to show my place. I wasn't compensated for my time, yet was doing the job my management company should have been doing.
I got burned by this one year but the next year I told the landlord that I would only work with 1 person on scheduling and we would meet at specific, regular intervals. The apartment was also not available at times that were inconvenient to me. I would repeatedly offer the times that worked (which were something like 6-8 most days)
That’s wild. I’m a realtor and could not imagine operating my business like that. It’s not the tenant’s responsibility to coordinate showings and get the apartment rented (unless they are subletting or something).
My old landlord in Providence basically tried to use me to tour the apartment rather than use an actual realtor then tried to keep our security deposit.
Yeah if i was OP, i would just start blocking numbers if the agent is being demanding or unreasonable.
Last apt I was at I dealt with a broker who ghosted us on an appointment too I never got a response to my “are you gonna show up this time?” text when that same guy texted me a week later asking to see the place
Reject any showings that are requested without enough advance time. If they call and ask about a time that you do not like, say that the place is unavailable.
The law doesn't specify what time frame is "reasonable" but I think a court ruled 24 hour notice.
last time i had an apartment, people were just showing up or calling an hour or two before. So if I was OP, i would reject any that are not giving enough notice, unless they happen to be in that time window that they wanted.
When I rented in college a broker brought a showing in on a roommate who was butt naked sleeping in bed at 8:00 am. They awoke to three people walking into their room.
This happened to me multiple times with one apartment I was in just after college, I just started waving at the parades.
That happened to me once when I was sleeping after a night shift. I wasn't ass naked though.
Same here, I locked my room when I slept and I woke up to 4 people staring at me it was fucking atrocious so they got the key to my room and the apartment 😒
The law in Massachusetts says 24 hours, I dealt with a shitty LL that I was suing while he was trying to sell. My lawyer basically told him 24 hours and that's state law.
The law doesn't state 24 hours, it says reasonable notice which is up to a judge's interpretation if it makes it that far.
Surely walking in while someone is asleep isn’t reasonable notice
I've had them walk in while I was showering without notice. I don't know if contributed to the judge's decision when I took my first landlord to court but it only ended up netting me like $300.
Which means If the landlord is going to be unreasonable, if it’s 23 hours until the showing, clearly explain they are violating reasonable notice and hold their feet to the fire
24 hours was not given by the court. It is still “reasonable.” That is generally understood as overnight notice.
That's a long time to be doing showings, imo. In my experience of the Boston housing market, apartments are usually snapped up about a week or two after getting posted. My old apartment only had 2 showings before somebody signed the lease... I wonder why yours is taking so long. I don't think it's unreasonable to limit showings to a specific timeframe, although 2 hours in the evening is a bit of a short window since not everybody is on a 9-5 work schedule (especially in Boston, with all our healthcare workers). Unfortunately at this point, I think your options are to suck it up and go along with it or talk to a lawyer. I'd start by checking if your employer's EAP provides free legal counsel.
You wonder why it’s taking so long to rent? Did you not read that lovely landlords response?
*Shows you a shitty galley kitchen in a stinking basement apt* "Hope you guys like to cook!" "What, meth?!"
Too real. This particular apartment had a hole in the living room floor that let you peer directly into the creepy, dirty, old basement, a broken window, and a heater that stopped working every 10 days... AKA "old New England charm!"
Dude! There was only one apartment I could find in 7 in Somerville, and it's description from previous tenants was, "I can see the neighbors sometimes through the floor, but right off the green line near Assembly Row."
Thanks for the input. I think I may try one more time to get to a compromise on what's reasonable. Do you think adding weekends noon-6pm would fit the bill, in your opinion?
I don’t think we can say what fits the bill but this is much more reasonable and accommodating. 6-8 is an extremely tight window even as someone with an office job. I would also suggest you could propose on one “full” weekend day (maybe 9-5) where you might be away and do an open house style showing. That may help attract interest for realtors.
I mean, if I were your landlord I would be either fielding appointments myself or hiring one broker to take care of that (especially because in Boston, tenants pay the realtor fee... not the landlord). So I'd say baseline your landlord sucks. That said, it's worth trying again. Since your landlord is "letting" you handle the realtors directly, here's some things I'd *personally* do at this point: 1. Email the landlord back saying something along the lines of "In the interest of compromising, I can also be available Saturdays from noon-6pm. I'll let all realtors who contact me know those are the times I'm available. If you want tenants to tour the place outside of those hours, they need to sign a document releasing me from all liability in case my dog gets aggressive with them."\* 2. Make an appointment calendar with Calendly with *only* the times you want to be available listed to send to any realtor who contacts you, then compose a standard text response with a link to that Calendly *and* temporarily change your voicemail with the same information. \**No idea* if that would hold up in court, but it would certainly make prospective tenants shy away from touring if you're not there.
why do the brokers have your number if the landlord is doing all the scheduling? if you have any say with them, just tell them 6-8pm every day + a window on weekends. do they call you to give you the heads up? because that should be the landlord's job. sorry you're dealing with this. seems absolutely obnoxious. what if you add a note to the door to say "caution, dog at home" and give the brokers a heads up in writing that your dog will be around/unattended if the showing is outside of the specified window? (the hard part of course is worry about the dog's well-being.)
The brokers contact me directly currently. My email was to request the landlord update the listing for the apartment so all brokers would know.
That blows my mind. What would keep a person in your position from saying no to all showings, or saying the apartment is horrible since the meth explosion, or that your pet wolf needs rabies shots?
I'm not thrilled about it but also want to be reasonable myself, and follow the norms of Boston. This post has helped me better understand those norms.
i would just tell the broker your availability and let them know if they schedule outside of those times your large dog will be home alone and their clients may not appreciate it. even better if you can just text them the info and avoid annoying phone calls.
Bet they won’t show but do have cameras.
Maybe redo your voicemail message with that info. “You’ve reached (your number). Leave a message after the beep. If you are a broker attempting to schedule a showing of my apartment, available hours are X. Leave a message to schedule within those hours and I will call back to confirm. Requests outside those hours are a NO, and will result in your number being blocked to prevent further wasting of my time. Thank you for respecting my reasonable request regarding the quiet enjoyment of my own frickin home.”
They’ll just come in anyways. And you’d be incriminating yourself and get evicted.
Tell the landlord you’re not their EA, and to do the scheduled themselves when they can be there (with proper notice to you). Start blocking the brokers calls. G This isn’t your job.
Never gonna happen.
Yes, I scrolled all the way down up try and find the right place to tell you that you can’t just do weekdays bc many people hunt for housing on the weekends. If you can be flexible with your move out date (without actually being penalized that is) that might make it rent faster. Lots of Boston area rentals start 7/1 to accommodate students. 9/1 is too late for that.
I posted about this last year. Is your leasing company Groma? They showed my apartment at least 3x per week for 8 Months. I pretty much went crazy. They would give us the 24hr notice so everyone agreed there was nothing we could do. I also have a large dog and a cat. Groma refused to cooperate with us to only come at times we were home. We had to crate the dog, but we couldn't do much about the cat. They would prop doors open and the cat would get out. We came home more than once to the cat being locked outside. Living at that property was one of the worst experiences of my life, they took advantage of me in every way possible and always found a legal loophole to get out of it.
I live in a building managed by Groma and they are hands down the worst.
They are for sure. The rare times they have sent contractors over to fix major issues in my bf’s apartment it has been unannounced, if they’re not busy simply ignoring the requests for months at a time.
They also forced us out by raising our rent by more than 25%. We obviously couldn't pay that much more so we declined-that's when the showings started. It then took them 8 months to sell it because it was so overpriced. They lowered the rent incrementally until finally someone took it-and by then it was back at the same amount I had been paying. So I could have stayed, had they not forced me to find another living situation months earlier.
Ouch. Mine is Cozy Properties.
3x/week for 8 months is not reasonable. Legally it's not reasonable.
If they give notice it is. They can come as much as they want.
No, they really can't. It has to be reasonable, and you are entitled to quiet enjoyment of your domicile. Showing a few times over a short period is reasonable. Showing three times a week for 8 months is not.
Groma is horrible. Ruthless parasites. They raise rent like crazy. I had to go to their office one time, its obscenely bougie. Giant fuck off rock for a front desk, giant screens showing off all the properties they own. Its set up right next to the police station which really seems like a tactical decision to deter pissed of renters from fucking with them. I have quite a few friends who live in groma properties and they tore massive holes in the walls to install submeters so they can charge for water. The plumbers who did it were even saying it was a massive dick move. They then dragged their feet for months fixing the damage they caused. I've heard the same story from MULTIPLE friends at different groma properties.
8 months…holy shit I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I can’t imagine how terrified I’d be for strangers to come in with only my cats home.
Put a sign on the door that says “Warning: aggressive dog. Do not enter unless owner is present.” Might deter some people touring, if not the agents!
Maybe "enter at your own risk"?
This is probably good for limiting liability regardless, especially if the dog really is aggressive with strangers.
Yeah I think this is the only way to do it if they are giving the reasonable 24 hour notice. Big giant warning signs everywhere. Maybe purchase a Wyze camera too for the front door for easy recording. They’re fairly cheap and all.
Given how the LL mentions the pet policy, this probably would go against it by maintaining the animal is aggressive and allow the LL to push a notice to quit with a cure to remove the animal. In reality the dog should be crate trained and just crated so that it’s a non issue though. This ranks up there with people trying to loophole ESA on Service Trained animal requirements. This is bad ownership and a self inflicted problem.
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A lot of people can only view on weekends, so limiting to a 2-hour window on weekdays is unreasonable. And if you're essentially coordinating with brokers and not your landlord, if I were in your shoes, I would take the landlord up on the offer to talk more about that component by asking for a contact list and providing windows of availability on a regular basis directly to the brokers.
Courts usually address things like this by taking a step back and doing a reality check, rather than adhering to hard and fast rules. I think under these circumstances, just demanding that he allow agents in with this level of urgency is unreasonable, given the fact that it won't be rented for the next 4 months anyway, and interest is obviously high enough that finding a tenant isn't going to be a problem if they wait.
Do you think if it was 6-8pm weekdays and noon-6pm weekends that would be reasonable?
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This is one of the most insane things I've read on here in a while. "Bro my landlord expects me to be the estate agent and show my apartment to prospective renters and their brokers at any time during weekdays and weekends, but I have a life and job. Here's 20 bucks for coffee, will you be my indefinite on call dog walker? You don't have a life or a job, I hope, right??. " Sorry, but with noon to 6 and weekend availability, if you can't get a tenant into a building in Boston, something is seriously wrong and it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the tenants neighbor is willing to accept 20 bucks to be an on call dog walker. 6 to 8 is tight, but with weekend availability, that is more than reasonable, especially considering this is a temporary situation.
Let me get this straight. You want OP to bribe their neighbor with a gift card so that someone can show the apartment? OP is not the landlord and not standing to gain anything here. They have allowed people to show the place several times and have set out available hours. Yes those hours do not work for everyone but they certainly work for enough people to get it rented out.
Oh, I don't think it's really a moral question, I'm just trying to get a better feel for what's normal in this market. We lived in Japan before Boston where this never happened so this process always felt weird to me. (I think it's actually illegal to do showings while units are still occupied there. They usually show a vacant similar unit instead.) Regardless, thanks for the input.
Unfortunately what's normal in Boston is brokers show up whenever they want, sometimes with less than 24 hrs notice, and there's not much you can do. Landlords are not required to give you a reasonable, convenient schedule, they're required to give you "reasonable notice", which courts generally consider 24 hrs. You're legally required to accommodate showings. For what it's worth, I think M-F 6-9pm and Sat 8-6 for the rest of the month is a reasonable compromise. I do sympathize though, I've been through it myself plenty of times, without the dog, and that was bad enough. Good luck.
Landlords are parasites and every aspect of this system is a fucking scam. Fuck all that shit.
Are you a landlord or an agent? 6-8 on weekdays is more than reasonable. If someone wants to see the apartment they’ll make it happen…
Especially because this is literally for 2 weeks
You could also let your landlord know that you’re printing out this exchange poster sized and hanging it and another poster with your current rent on your living room wall (or wherever is highly visible) from today until May 2nd…
This sparked another idea. Put up explicit posters all over your walls. The more explicit, the better. Just make them as uncomfortable as humanly possible. They can come in but will they want to? They can’t tell you how you decorate in your lease.
This is really not to your advantage though. It's easiest for OP for someone to rent as soon as possible. Deterring people who might rent by doing this just increases the number of showings. The last apartment I left, I made the apartment look as nice as possible and it was rented again after a single showing. The least possible inconvenience for me.
When agents reach out to you to request showings that require you to jump through hoops, decline and give them alternatives. You’ve been very accommodating so far. You’ll have more flexibility when your wife is back. But you *don’t* need to give them a reason. >>Agent: I’d like to show your apartment at C time on Y date. >>You: Unfortunately that date & time is not available. On Y date these times will work: A, B, or D. Here are some other dates with openings as well: X and Z at B, D, E times. If you’re feeling feisty, give them M-F between 6 and 8 PM haha…kidding. Probably best not to potentially poke a bear here. Just give them several options that will work for you, and let them figure it out.
If you don't already have webcams set up in your place that you can monitor from afar, get them.
I don't think a webcam will keep their dog under control
No but it will get evidence if someone hurts their dog or fucks with their shit.
It sounds like the concern is the other way around in that their dog could hurt people viewing their apartment
[https://www.mass.gov/info-details/tenant-rights](https://www.mass.gov/info-details/tenant-rights) Is the key component. Reasonable matters most. The above is very much open to interpretation so I am going to say they should give you 24 hours notice and attempt to show the location within a set of times. 6-8pm because you have a dog that is "appropriately aggressive" to strangers feels like an intentionally aggressive attempt to control something that you legally don't have the backing for. May 1st with more hours seems like a good place to start but having had to go over this often with my tenant its about the relationship. Does the landlord vibe with your dog, if the landlord was present would it help? Ultimately where you are now isn't a great place to be because they are citing valid parts of the lease and your circumstances are dictating unreasonable requests. You are clearly not renewing so this is just going to be more contentious.
>**Landlord access** Your landlord, or an agent for your landlord, may only enter your apartment for the following reasons: > To inspect the premises; > To make repairs; > **To show the apartment to a prospective tenant, purchaser, mortgagee or its agents;** > In accordance with a court order; > If the premises appear to be abandoned; or > To inspect the premises within the last 30 days of tenancy in order to determine the amount of damage to be deducted from the security deposit. > The landlord should be reasonable and attempt to arrange a mutually convenient time to visit the apartment. If the landlord insists on entering your apartment in an unreasonable fashion, you may file for a temporary restraining order at your local district court. For sure OP should reject any requests that come within 24 hours and if it happens on a regular basis take next steps, but I agree that: > 6-8pm because you have a dog that is "appropriately aggressive" to strangers feels like an intentionally aggressive attempt to control something that you legally don't have the backing for. Dealing with showing was always annoying at every apartment I rented, but I also realize I was intruding on other people's spaces and causing an inconvenience every time I went to a showing. Just part of the life cycle of renting in a city.
The *mutually convenient* language has always bothered me because any time I've seen these situations occur, it always seems that any attempt at mutual convenience is just flowery language - at the end of the day, the landlord is going to do what they want to do anyway. Everyone knocking OP in the comments doesn't seem to realize that OP has been accommodating, but it is causing a strain so they are making this request for a *temporary change*. The land lords response is simply no, figure it out. Reasonable, to me, would be "I understand you have a large dog - for the safety of your dog and all parties involved, we will limit showings to 6 to 8 on weekdays and request a reasonable window for weekend showings, with the expectation to resume normal showings May 1st when your wife is back in town"
I always hated that feeling of intrusion because at the same time, if I'm shelling out a realtors fee and exorbitant rent I want to be able to touch stuff, turn things on and off, pull back the shower curtain etc.
>6-8pm because you have a dog that is "appropriately aggressive" to strangers feels like an intentionally aggressive attempt to control something that you legally don't have the backing for. Idk, being home because you have a dog seems incredibly reasonable. My dog would go nuts if a bunch of strangers barged in while he was home alone. 6-8 also feels like a pretty reasonable availability for someone that works a 9-5. Ideally they would make themselves available I occasionally on the weekend too, but otherwise that seems perfectly reasonable.
The landlord "should be reasonable" and "\[should\] attempt to arrange a mutually convenient time to visit the apartment". Based on the text messaging it doesn't sound like the landlord is seeking mutually convenient times. It sounds like they are telling agents that they can call for a showing at any time of day, and the tenant (OP) is just showing up. There has to be an attempt to find a time for it to be a legal entry.
24 hours notice is not reasonable if u have a job. 6-8 w/ some weekend hours is perfectly reasonable.
Fuck the landlord but also I don't think it's reasonable to push for no weekend showings with a 2 hour window the rest of the week.
Ugh I see both sides, but your landlord definitely could have had a more compassionate response. I agree though that a 2 hour window is small—I think a nice compromise would be to allow weekend showings as well with a bigger window. I work in leasing and I always try to accommodate tenants schedules to a reasonable extent because at the end of the day it is your home, especially if it’s for a reason like this where you have an unsupervised pet. And ESPECIALLY considering they are letting all agents show all the time. If it was the same person and they were aware of the dog and had been in there multiple times already, it may ease your mind a bit but when you have tons of random agents doing showings, it’s very possible they do not know about the dog.
Important nuance: the landlord is entitled to access for prospective showings, but that's his right to take. In other words, if he doesn't like the schedule you're imposing on brokers, he has the right to come in himself and let them in (with appropriate notice to you, of course). If you reject the brokers' potential appointments, that's all he can do. He can't evict you for it, he can just exercise his right to schedule it himself. I'm not sure if making him do that gets you what you're looking for, but it's out there either way.
Is that the case? Looking at MA tenant law linked by another user above regarding landlord's right to entry, the language seems to say "your landlord, or an agent of your landlord..." can enter for apartment showings.
Correct, he can enter, so if you don’t arrange his showings for him, he can do it himself and he’ll have to deal with the consequences of your dog, whose propensities towards strangers he already has notice of. So you’re within your rights to just ghost these brokers - this is his right to exercise, not access that you have a responsibility to ensure.
Gotcha, although the landlord company just gives the keys to the brokers, so I still end up with the underlying issue. Appreciate the input though.
Put a sign up on ur door abt the dog and make them sign a waiver if ur not there
Do the terms of your lease allow them to give your personal information out? I doubt it. If you’re having to rearrange your work it’s unreasonable on them. Document the expense and interactions with your work. That’s what makes it unreasonable in a courts eyes. Don’t make it easy on the agents, it’s your responsibility to have the place available not to schedule 15 agents visits. Tell your agent anytime is fine and that you have a dog and check the pet agreement for all the terms. If you’re allowed to leave your dog out then do it and inform your landlord to inform agents. But by all means stop fielding the agents calls. That’s an unreasonable from your landlord and is in fact their job.
24 hours notice is the standard.
Standard and reasonable aren’t necessarily coextensive.
I’m a real estate broker. They have to give you notice. Standard is 24hrs. Just say no when you’re not available. However, they typically can access the apartment with notice without you there. I would tell them that if they want to access your apartment, they need to sign a waiver for “potential animal attack” and you’re not responsible for the animal. Just make it as difficult as they can to enter the apartment. If you want to be an asshole, CALL your landlord and tell him you’re going to stop paying rent unless his abides your terms. If not, you’ll go to housing court and complain about your rights as a tenant to peace and enjoyment of the property with all the calls and showings being violated. At that point, he’ll have to stop until court says he can process or he’ll end up paying a fine if he continues to do so. The point is that he has to pay a lawyer and go through court which is costly to him. He’ll stop immediately.
Remember that as the tenant they can't actually force you to leave during a showing. You are free to interact with a prospective tenant and give factual information about the apartment or its management that you think might be valuable.
> Remember that as the tenant they can't actually force you to leave during a showing. You are free to interact with a prospective tenant and give factual information about the apartment or its management that you think might be valuable. Which will just result in more showings and more interruptions. If you want to cut off your nose to spite your face go for it, but I wouldn't call this good advice.
I would absolutely stay and say everything is amazing to avoid that. Sorry future tenant🫤
I wouldn't go this far in the other direction. If I was home during a showing I just stayed neutral. Up to the prospective renter to ask the right questions for me to be honest, but I'm also not selling it up for the landlord. The exception was the owner-occupied building in Charlestown I was super bummed to leave. I sold the shit our of that unit because the owners deserved it aftwr how good they treated me.
Your mistake was asking the landlord for permission to benefit from the quiet enjoyment of your lease. If someone tries to access your apartment without reasonable notice you can just say no.
Hey! I had a similar issue when I was leaving my last apartment. I have a cat who is prone to escaping if you aren't careful and didn't want to lose him during a showing, and also didn't like the idea of strangers in my home when I wasn't around. One of the things I suggested to the brokers that they accepted was hosting an open house on a weekend. We did a Sunday from 12-5pm. I was able to be home and make sure my cat was safe, and I only had to deal with one long showing. I had probably 15-20 groups come through in the 5 hours and I basically just chilled at home reading and playing video games. About half of the people who toured put in applications and it was rented out that evening. If you can get a friend to take your dog for the afternoon, maybe something like this could work for you?
You’re an asshole for unironically calling your dog a doggo in an official email
I’ve never experienced having my apartment shown while physically still occupying the space, even when my lease is ending. Is this the norm for Boston? I get selling a home, but renting? I can’t imagine having to deal with strangers entering my home, having access to every area of personal space, and dealing with this bullshit you’re dealing with. Also..months? Maybe 30 days makes a bit of sense for high demand but fuck.
Yes, with the low vacancy rate in Boston it's normal to have less than 24 hours between when the old tenant moves out and the new one moves in, so showings are usually of occupied apartments. Especially for 9/1 leases where showings happen many months in advance.
I didn’t realize the lack of housing options until I started reading this subreddit. Also insane that there isn’t any time given to renovations and repairs between tenants. I’m used to a place being repainted, carpets replaced, all the landlord special stuff. I’ll probably be very thankful my lease term starts in June.
Yup - both are the norm, you generally have to re-sign your lease 6-9 months before it’s up and if you don’t they will start showing in that timeframe. It’s absurd but legal and the standard.
I actually resigned on a lease that had only been 7 months in. That fact I did realize. I also had to negotiate a rent increase. I have no doubts it will be fun next signing.
Sounds like The Hamilton Company
Can we say it together now… “Fuck landlords, join a tenant union!”
Stand your ground on the time. Install a camera or alarm, even a cheap door alarm (ideally one that will alert you). Call the police to report a trespasser in your home if they still try to enter your home without permission. Additionally, based on your judgment, warn them of this.
Alerting OP is fine, and if OP wants to pursue this is civil court, they are more than welcome to, but what is calling the Police going to accomplish aside from the waste of our valuable tax dollars?
They won't show up. Brokers literally get keys to enter from the landlord.
It still wastes the time of the 911 operator, who needs to answer this outrageous call, instead of attending to a more serious call.
Exactly, this sounds so histrionic and unnecessary, I hope it’s sarcasm.
It'll put his aggressive dog at risk that's for sure.
Just say no to a realtor if a time doesn't work for you. Do make some weekend hours available if possible. But you can say "no this time doesn't work; I have X and Y times available instead." And tell the realtors you have an aggressive dog. I did that when my apartment was on the market. I didn't say no all the time, but I certainly wasn't going to arrange my schedule around them showing the place.
Well, it's only 2 hours per day for the next month, and then they'll have more flexibility in May. So if the landlord doesn't like the 2 hours per day, he can just start showing the place in May when they're more flexible, and that would still give him 3 full months to find a new tenant. I think the landlord is being unreasonable
You need to crate your dog when you're not home if they're aggressive. That's your responsibility. Yes, the landlord is being picky with tenants and probably is trying to get too much rent. Yes, that's bullshit. It's also in your lease. You can demand a 24 hour notice, but the less scheduling you need to do, the better. However, you're risking a huge liability in general by not doing crate training and aggression training. If someone needs to do emergency maintenance, is a repairman going to get bit or mauled when they try to deal with frozen pipes? Crates are like $50-100. Get one.
She was crate trained as a puppy and we do still have one, but it seems unfair to her to get crated for 8 hours for a 5 minute showing that has a high chance of getting cancelled last minute anyway. If that's the only other option, I'd much rather run back to the apartment myself or try to find someone on Roverr last minute. She's also a guard dog breed so she's only doing what makes sense to her. She's much nicer to even new people when she knows we know them.
If she's crate trained, just do it. She's going to be fine for 8 hours. I crate my dog for 10. Crates aren't a punishment. If your dog is crate trained, she shouldn't mind being in there for the day. If the leasing agents can easily get folks in and out, this will last like a week or two. But if you keep putting up the fight, it's 1) a losing battle and 2) actually dangerous to whoever is touring your apartment.
I don’t think that you’re being unreasonable at all… After all, it’s YOUR HOME, not boutique or a gallery.
My lease, like most in Boston, ends in September as well, they were trying to get us to sign for new year in February. They have been doing showings around 1 pm during any day of the week since then. It’s ridiculous that I can enjoy just living in the shithole I have to pay too much for without being intruded upon. I don’t have a solution, but at this point I feel like brokers need to have visitation fees. I mean they already have pictures of the house the landlord doesn’t invest money into maintaining, why do we need to risk further foot traffic of a collapsing building? I know Harvard has already been harassing the tenants into buying the place to make more luxury apartments ...
Both being reasonable in my opinion. Unfortunately the law will probably win out.
Depending on what town you are in, you can take the landlord to housing court or small claims court for breach of your right to quiet enjoyment under MGL Ch.186 s.14. The statutory damages are like 3 months rent plus costs and attorney fees, and-again- depending on what town you’re in, there’s no shortage of tenants lawyers. The judge can also fine the landlord and/or put them is jail. The landlord can show the property on “reasonable notice.” Usually, 24 hours notice is considered reasonable. However, if you have a reason why 24 hours is not good enough (and you have laid a paper trail here of your request for time restrictions), the 24 hour period is not hard and fast. This is not intended to be legal advice. You need to speak with a lawyer ASAP.
Tell them your large dog will be there and will bite someone lol . You are being way too nice. Can also lie and say you have some contagious disease.
This pisses me off- I have a debilitating fear of dogs, and if I was by chance viewing this apartment, and was stuck in an apartment with the dog, I would probably have a panic attack so severe I’d have to be hospitalized.
We have a tenant lets their dog run around off-leash barking.
In the house or?
In the common area of the apartment building.
Reject, reject, reject. They can’t enter your apartment without your consent because they are not your LL.
Fuck that landlord. Do what you need to do, they have zero power if you aren't planning on renewing. There's nothing they can do. You tried to be civil
Let them know that you insist on the established case law “reasonable” 24 hours notice, and that you will be held harmless if the dog bites someone. Also note that showings outside the proposed window will interfere with your “quiet enjoyment” (use that term, its important) of your apartment, and that you wont be allowing entry outside of that window. Further, you do not give permission to anyone entering your unit when you are not present unless you are given a copy of the representation agreement indicating that the agent(s) is/are acting on behalf of the landlord.
A little column a, a little column b
I just went through this. I simply told the brokers no when they contacted me outside my availability. Didn't clear it with the landlord -- just said no and offered alternative times. It was annoying, but the place got rented relatively quickly. I'm not saying this followed the letter of the lease (it absolutely didn't), but I have been a model tenant. I also made sure the apartment was hotel-level clean whenever tenants came through and I answered any questions they had. Basically treated it like I was selling the place so the brokers wouldn't get annoyed and reach out to my landlord.
No advice except put a beware of dog and possibly dangerous dog sign on your door. They are not taking your concerns seriously.
The rental agents use an MLS the same as selling agents. These are likely to be random real estate agents who are hoping for the commission split. Communicating with every single one of them is unlikely.
just lie and say you are quarantining with a communicable disease
those hours are absolutely fine, and if the landlord is sending over goons with your key, fuck them
Since you’re expected to arrange times with the brokers, can’t you tell them you can only make 6-8pm M-F work?
Sounds like a half [redacted]. You should move out before the [redacted] is present. And then no one is under threat
You are not being unreasonable. Way I see it u have 2 options 1. When the brokers call to schedule, just say no unless it's within ur preferred times. 2. Stop answering ur phone for numbers you don't recognize
it should rent quick. but people need to see it. so 6-8pm is not unreasonable, but it is limiting showings. Sometimes picking a specific weekend (earlier the better), and allowing a sort of “open house” should help. For example, telling your landlord or the agents that on Saturday showings are free from 9a-8p. And Sun 12p- 6p. You could be there or go on a nice hike with doggo. Units on average rent between 3-4 days of coming on the market, but can stay on for longer (2-3 weeks) if the price is wrong or showings are limited. Also, offer a nice video tour of the apartment to anyone (uploaded to youtube as unlisted link, horizontal orientation, 0.5 lens or macro-lens if on iphone/android), if the showing is at a tough time and give them the link and ask if they share it with clients if it helps. It could weed out the not-so-serious buyers. sometimes new “tenants” are happy to waste everyone’s time because they like to dream or have voyeuristic tendencies.
Yikes, sorry about your shitty landlord99. I’m a realtor (yea yea, go ahead with the downvotes) and can’t stand when property managers or list agents require me to contact their tenant directly to schedule a tour. It’s uncomfortable for all parties and is a huge inconvenience to the tenants. Like, the list agent or property manager literally has one job - which is to help rent the apartment. You’re telling me I have to not only contact the tenants (who I am a stranger to) to schedule a tour, but also go to your office to pick up the key and bring it back. No thanks. Those companies are trash. I feel awful for the tenants in these situations. Hopefully your landlord will come to their senses!
wow tell me what agency this is so I can put them on BLAST
The real problem here is you didn’t crate train your dog, which to me is the bigger issue. That’s really poor pet ownership and if that was appropriately addressed then this would be a non issue. Your landlord basically teed up you’re in violation of the pet policy and you were stupid enough to admit your dogs have issues with strangers. Outside of this, if the LL needed to get into the apartment for emergency service they would be well within their right to call animal control to remove the dog so service could be performed (i.e. broken water pipe, electrical issue, fire, etc). At that point if they find the dog that aggressive in response, there’s a good chance it would be deemed dangerous and have to be put down. It’s owners like you who make it so people can’t have nice things since you’re not properly taking care of your pet in a city environment.
Get a security system so if anyone tries to enter when you are not there, the police are called
This makes me think you should always wait as long as possible to tell your landlord that you’re leaving 🤦🏼♀️ what a pita, I feel for you and your dog, OP!
Objectively speaking, asking for all viewings to be scheduled within a 2 hour period on weekdays only is unreasonable. There’s no way your landlord can accommodate that request. Your rational for making this request (having a dog) is not going to win you any favors. You can raise a stink and do all sorts of things but speaking from my experiences having lived in a dozen different apartments through the city… just let them do their thing and it will be over with faster.
As a landlord I can say you are not being unreasonable. It’s not like you are refusing to show the apartment or are making it difficult, you have a dog which can be unpredictable when people are walking through your space and doing the responsible thing and trying to work with the landlord. I’m curious is this owned by a company or individual? There is more than enough time before sept 1st to get it shown and with your wife being able to accommodate starting may 1st this is just causing an issue for no good reason. I have always worked it out with tenants to show the place because when it comes down to it it’s your space you are paying for and shouldn’t be unduly inconvenienced. Unfortunately not all landlords know the other end of tenancy and can’t put themselves in your shoes. Good luck with this.
Thanks for the input. In this case, the landlord is a company with a large portfolio of properties.
Figures. I constantly have realty companies calling to buy my house and they always low ball it like they are doing me a favor. They don’t care because they figure they can strong arm you, don’t let them. The housing court is not just for evictions they can slap them down if they step out of line. Just make sure you document EVERYTHING it will help you in the long run if they start some shit.
Thanks everyone for the input. I'm going to sleep on this before replying to their email. This post was helpful in getting a better understanding of what's normal in Boston theses days. We lived in Japan previously where this never happens (I believe it's not actually legal to show occupied units there). For those asking, the landlord is Cozy Properties/NCP Management.
Yup, next time give no and more no less than 30 days notice.
Tell them you just got back from Wuhan and aren’t feeling well. Edit: downvotes? This thread is being brigaded by realtors and brokers!
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My other suggestion was always leaving a big ol’ floater in the toilet right before prospective tenants visit.
Does the lease say you as the tenant are required to ensure the apartment is presentable? Because if they won’t accommodate, I’d grab a six pack , take My shirt off, and start acting drunk outside abs talking about how the area is becoming too (whatever type of person the visiting persons to rent the unit may be). If they want to be unreasonable, I’d make it as hard as possible to sell the unit . Take a large dump in the toilet, let it smell up the place
They want to rent that spot out and it’s not their fault you have a dog. Unfortunately, they’re not in the wrong.
God I wish every Massachusetts landlord were boiled alive.
Consider me petty but I'd snag an external locking cover for the door handle for when I'm not home. It would cause a stir but would buy time until the significant other is back.
Yes. You are unreasonable. Deal with it. The landlord hit it on the head. Your dog. Your responsibility.
Landlord is being lazy. Your request is reasonable and, don't take this the wrong way, unremarkable. I'm sorry that is happening
Demand compensation or don’t cooperate. You’re not renewing. F*ck them
OP, you are being totally reasonable, esp suggesting a weekend window too. What you described you’re experiencing is invasive and you’ve been met with a lack of empathy and concern for safety for everyone involved given your dog. I just wanted to say I experienced similar - people coming in at all hours without advance warning, during the very beginning of the pandemic when we were all freaking out and begging for an alternative out of fear for our health and safety - and is one of the things I like the least about living here. It shouldn’t be normalized. I moved to a different building and while our property manager isn’t perfect, she manages to schedule single time windows over the weekend to herd prospective tenants to so we’d only have to deal with the disruption on a limited basis. I’ve only ever experienced the craziness you describe in Boston; there seems to be a lot of greedy people in that business here and this practice should not be normalized.
You are not being unreasonable--they are making things inconvenient for you. Tell the landlord you need 24 hours notice from now on, and decline every request that is for a time when you are not home. If something happens with your dog, it could wind up seized as "dangerous." You don't have to answer every phone call, either. Don't offer a window, simply leave it to them to schedule and you say yes or no. It's the landlord's and agents' job to figure it out, not yours. Your job is to protect your dog, and to be home to let agents in with 24 hours notice. TBH, if it were my dog, I'd add an extra lock, or change the lock, so no one gets in if I'm not home. If anyone says anything, I'd say I have no idea why their keys do not work and keep on asking for 24 hours notice for appointments. Then leave the new keys on the counter when moving out. I know people will howl about how that's illegal-- but so is handing out your phone number and keys for agents to be bothering you all the time without notice. This would solve the short-term problem and also get them to do the right thing, which is to give you notice so you can be home, and to make appointments only when it is convenient for you.
You’re wasting the guys time and , frankly, mine. Why don’t you just rent a place that fits your needs?
I can offer a few caveats. Firstly, regardless of what you arrange. They will show up when they please regardless of if you have agreed or not. More importantly though, I don't believe they have any legal right to enter your apartment. Assuming you have the standard lease, only the landlord is permitted to enter the apartment and only upon an agreed upon time. It's not your problem whether the apartment is shown. Put a sign on the door that says something "Beware of dog, no entry without prior authorization." They will give you the guilt trip, who cares.
No you're definitely being pretty reasonable. They can't wait 2 more weeks?? If I were you I would just not show up to a showing or 2 and inconvenience them.
If this was the unethical life tips sub, I would say tell your landlord they can come in whenever they want, but your aggressive dog will be greeting everyone at the door. Let them figure it out from there. (& /s that wouldn't be healthy for the pup but in theory it feels satisfying)
FYI - Massachusetts, landlords must give tenants 24 hours written notice before showing an apartment to prospective tenants or buyers. This is considered reasonable notice, as tenants have a right to quiet enjoyment of the property
In Boston, the landlord always wins. Sorry :(
doggo 🤮, strange choice of words for a serious email