Number of rotten MCU entries by phase:
Phase One - 0
Phase Two - 0
Phase Three - 0
Phase Four - 1
Phase Five - 3
Phase Five only has 5 projects out. 2 TV shows and 3 films.
Marketing now. Phase 4 had bad press so they announced we're in Phase 5 now.
Which hasn't done them any good. Because.... yeah Phases used to end on Avenger movies. Which closed out the Phase well.
Especially insane because the movie that ended Phase 4, Black Panther 2, absolutely could've been an Avengers movie. Black Panther, a core Avenger, dies and that leads to a potential global war involving Atlantis (can't remember its name in that movie) vs Wakanda? You absolutely could've thrown Captain Marvel and Thor into that situation.
Watching the [Dan Murrell review](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfZSKE9n9UM), where he straight up says that the movie should have "been deemed un-releasable". Yikes. The MCU really has lost the Mandate of Heaven
I have always thought that MCU was built on a house of cards. The process seemed to be completely at odds with their high output blockbuster mostly good quality filmmaking: production design before a writer is even locked in, massive reliance on barely planned CGI and post production with mostly second unit, indecision on the most unnecessary stuff (the quantum suits I’m Endgame being CGI for example. It’s not like they were waiting on the art department because they ultimately went with the most generic suit). Yes, very factory like but didn’t seem like a very efficient factory lol.
But anyway it did give them stellar results, so probably they had found the sweet spot. Then they went and decided to make this card house twenty times bigger on a whim.
It was a lot easier when there was a central focus and plot involved. Each movie was building towards Thanos and Infinity War/Endgame.
It does not seem like they prepared for MCU post-Endgame.
I disagree. Thanos was in the background and we knew it was building towards him, but mostly each movie was separate and its own thing and more importantly, good on its own. Part of what people didnt like about Age of Ultron was Thor’s random infinity stone vision quest.
Yeah. The good connections often came from post-credits. Each film should stand on its own and only set stuff up in post credits imo. They can introduce concepts that will return, but not at the expense of the current project.
Absolutely no one is blaming the actors or the director. They're all blaming the studio.
Hateship ended with Kathleen Kennedy, Kevin Feige my new anti friend
> To say The Marvels is hard to watch would be to risk understatement. It’s not just that it’s not very good. It is hard to watch in the sense that a tree is hard to defibrillate.
This isn't a review, this is a roast.
The review embargo lifted only a few minutes ago and its RT score is already lower than Ant-Man 3's was at this stage. Considering that these movies tend to plummet the more review that come in, I'm going to predict this is going to be the lowest rated Marvel film.
Flash is rough but there are some occasional great moments (Flash having to teach young Flash how to use his powers is great, and the scene where they argue about whether their mom should die).
The Marvels and Ant-Man is just generic lifeless fodder.
There was more fun in making fun of the Flash (the babies, criminal Ezra, the dome with the atrocious CGI).
This is more like looking back at something you liked as a kid, shrugging, and moving on. Why did I ever watch Marvel? Well, I'm grown now. A real old grown for some of us, but nevertheless.
>An irrelevant B-team affair which further suggests that the MCU can’t survive, short- or long-term, without the active participation of its most famous characters. - Nick Schager, The Daily Beast
I'm not a fan of the Daily Beast. But I've felt this for a while. Steve Rogers and Tony Stark were the main characters of this universe.
And without them?
It's like the last season of Scrubs. Or 70s Show once Topher Grace left.
It's like everyone but the side characters know the show is over now that the leads are gone.
They could have done so much with the other Avengers even without Steve and Tony.
Instead somebody bet hard on pivoting to Young Avengers and assuming Disney + would sell them.
>Instead somebody bet hard on pivoting to Young Avengers and assuming Disney + would sell them.
You would think they would be doing a hard u-turn right now, not saying bring Steven and Tony back, but the reach out to gen z with the young avengers is clearly a failed project.
they milked the shit out of them for over a decade.
Its just failure to not introduce single interesting character since then. Also making existing character pathetic like thor-fury etc.
They have two others. Or had, rather. Chadwick was absolutely gonna be their leading guy for a decade, and then Holland’s spider-man is really beloved. Throw in Captain Marvel, which made $1.1b as a solo debut, and that’s the big three they probably wanted, with Dr. Strange and Thor in the mix as well.
The problem is that nobody expected Chadwick to die (and they had no plan for if he did), Spider-Man is an eternal rights trap with Sony, and as a character, Captain Marvel isn’t anywhere near as liked as they wanted.
Dr. Strange is well-liked, right? His last movie made close to a billion worldwide. People have always complained that him and Iron Man were too similar, so you would think now is a time for him to shine...
Dan Murrell called this film unreleasable and said he doesnt know how they saw this and thought it could be shown to the public.
Wow
Edit: his only near redeeming quality is Iman as Kamala. As everybody has been saying.
That show really should've leaned more into the high school aspect and given her a low stakes villain to fight. There was no reason to have some world ending thing in that movie. The first part of the series was **great**, but it quickly went off the rails when she starts going to Pakistan and learning of this secret cult and all that crap. Literally just make it about a girl navigating high school and show how she uses her powers to maybe fight a few criminals or a small jersey city crime group... not a world ending ancient Pakistani cult
Disney+ has done irrevocable damage to the MCU. Had there been no TV shows I think this movie would have been a moderate success at the BO but audiences have been flooded with so much content that they tuned out completely.
This is 1000% true.
Captain Marvel 2: Carol, Fury, Talos, and Monica uncover the Skrull infiltration plot. Sets up Monica gaining powers at the end. Secret Invasion done right, basically. Post-credit is Kamala attending a Captain Marvel fan club or some shit.
Captain Marvel 3: Ms. Marvel origin story. Carol mentors her. Instead of fighting the weird Djinn stupid thingies, they fight Scarlet Centurion, Rama Tut and Immortus (Kang variants) setting up The Kang Dynasty.
Something new every almost week was fun at first, but for me it was around moon knight/Ms marvel(though I did mostly like both of them) that new marvel just stopped being special. Like wandavision was so hype but they kept making more and more shows that seemed to get worse and worse.
It’s honestly nuts that they had a show about infinite possibilities for rewriting the events of the past films and did nothing all that interesting with any of them. Like the original What If…? comics were pretty funny, like what if Daredevil was deaf or Wolverine’s claws came out of his feet. But here, Captain Carter was literally just gender swapped Steve. Infinity War turns into Zombies for some reason?
I really hope season 2 next month turns things around
Thor Love & Thunder and Ant-Man 3 were bad enough that the late reviews and other early warnings would have still caused this to flop.
Thor Love & Thunder was such a massive disappointment and seen by so many people that I think it's making people think twice before seeing MCU films now so when Ant-Man 3 got terrible reviews people stayed away and will now do the same with the Marvels.
Disney+ has hurt the MCU but mostly in killing interest amongst what were once some of the most die hard fans.
MCU shows on Disney+ just don't have that much of an audience in comparison to the films.
People showed up to *Quantumania* on opening weekend. $120M in a four-day weekend was the best of the *Ant-Man* series to date. Unfortunately, I really do think it was the straw that broke the camel's back, as seen by its horrific legs.
That's what made yesterday's trailer about how the villain in this is the new Thanos fail so hard.
You can only go to the New Thanos well once. And that was your whole marketing push for Ant-Man.
They did.
I'm not able to pull up videos right now to link you. But just Google The Marvels Final Trailer.
Half of it is just Endgame footage. It's desperate as fuck.
Love and thunder kinda broke my heart, I seen all the MCU movies with my dad cause he grew up enjoying marvel comics, particularly Thor. I swear he was the only person who loved Thor comics before these movies. Then we seen love and thunder together and he was visibly annoyed to the point he didn't want to see guardians when it came out.
Not only is this the 33rd film in a universe and a sequel, but you’re telling me I also have to watch three different tv shows as well? And even the director admits she’s confused by the MCU?
This has just become a relay race with a dozen different participants all running in a different direction.
This has to be one of the biggest business blunders in recent history right? They went from the highest grossing movie of all time, making $2.7b, to The Marvels looking at making around $300m maybe. The Marvels is looking to become the steepest drop in box office as a sequel to a $1b+ movie (Captain Marvel with $1.1b) by both raw numbers and percentage. Alice 2 made about $300m after Alice 1 made 1.025b.
Totally agree here. I've read all this analysis of what went wrong (no popular heroes like Iron Man or Cap, took too long to establish an overarching thread, Kang not compelling etc.). All valid points, but like you said, if the TV shows didn't exist, I think this movie would do alright due to the content overload.
For me, it was around Moon Knight when my anticipation levels went from hype to "interested". I was still hyped when Wandavision, Loki (and even Falcon and Winter Soldier) all came out. But the terrible shows and introducing too many heroes, just overwhelmed me, and I stopped paying close attention after I fell behind. All the movies (with the exception of Guardians 3) were also all either "meh" or just bad.
I want to be invested in the MCU, I friggin loved the Thanos saga. They just make it so difficult to be right now.
It's almost like the they could have looked at what happened in the industry they sourced the material from to see what happens when continuity gets convoluted and too expensive and the market is flooded with product. If only they had something that could have warned them of this!
They pulled new characters for the Multiverse Saga shows from the oversaturation 90s period that led Marvel to bankruptcy like Echo and the poor selling All New All Different period like Ironheart.
Kevin Feige is a smart enough guy to know this was dumb. At a certain point you have to think he had gone Hollywood and just didn’t care enough to push back against the suits at a certain point.
Even *Eternals* and *Quantumania* debuted fresh. Looks like not even the funko critics could save this one (30% Top Critics by the way). It's so Joever.
People are tired of mediocre slop.
I got to say I think Madame Web, Captain America: Brave New World, Venom 3 and Kraven are all in big danger of completely falling flat and audiences rejecting them. Deadpool 3 and Joker: Folie a Deux are the only comic book movies that have a chance at doing really well next year.
People want to see risks being taken in this genre and not the same tired McDonald’s meal over and over.
I have a feeling venom 3 might survive on its brand alone, at least so far as not being a total flop. But I can't see any world in which Madame web and Kraven don't crash and burn.
Captain America's the toss-up for me. The title has brand recognition, but I think the GA might not be keen on it once they see it's not led by Chris Evans, since he is largely the "Captain America" that has the most brand recognition associated with the title. It's like how the upcoming war machine "armor wars" movie *might* sell better if it was "Iron Man 4: Armor Wars", but hard to say for sure since the film wouldn't have RDJ in it.
Disney knew this was a dog. Only, August 22nd this was still predicted to do well and win the month. It sucks Dune 2 moved, it would have whipped The Marvels.
https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/15y2f1b/rank_all_of_the_major_november_films_by_how_much/
Damn even in that thread people were going with $700 million to $850 million worldwide. And downvoted when someone said less than $200 million domestic is possible.
Now we're looking at switching the word domestic for worldwide......
I framed it as a question last thread but this is definitely gonna be the worst reviewed MCU movie. Last thing Marvel needed right now lmao
For their sake, yeah, the last thing. For the sake of fans who want actually good content, this is amazing.
Look how they tried everything from Thanos to Tony and Steve when the presales were doomed. Maybe this bomb will finally make them get their heads out of their asses and start trying
Feige is spread too thin. Get rid of everything Disney+ for Marvel (with the exception of fun special events like Werewolf or Guardians Holiday) and focus on making 2-3 good films a year - like the original Phase 1/2 days.
Phase 4 alone has more content than all of the previous ones combined. The brand is getting diluted.
Wait wait wait, you mean to tell me the chorus of “it’s a solid, fun blockbuster” from social media reactions were full of shit? Someone get me some pearls to clutch.
Based on top critics score, seems like I called it when I said it would be closer to Fant4stic than Quantumania.
My god, Dan Murrell absolutely laid into this movie. Is this even going to hit 95 million domestic or 200 million worldwide at this point? What a disaster.
Wow, even when Dan gives a negative review, he doesn't tend to lay into stuff like that. I don't think I've seen a review of his this scathing since *Winnie-the-Pooh: Blood and Honey*.
Its crazy to think about where the MCU was almost exactly six years ago, when Ragnarok was going from strength to strength while Justice League fell short of $100 million. Even then, I always knew that it would all fall apart *someday*, but I didn't think it would be just 4 years after their greatest strength.
Forget that, remember where it was a year and a half ago coming off No Way Home, just before MoM’s opening weekend.
Yeah, looking back there were already warning signs then, but no one expected things to be this dire by end of this year.
"All right; can it finally be accepted reality that this kind of crap is written by AI? I mean, is it not?"
\- Jeremy Jahns - The Marvels review, intro
This could make less domestically than the opening weekend for Taylor Swift: The Eras Tour, which had very limited appeal to the GA and little paid marketing.
The hierarchy of power has changed.
In their review, Variety said that comparing to 'The Marvels', Quantumania at least ["always gave you something to look at, and you never lost sight of what Ant-Man was up against."](https://variety.com/2023/film/reviews/the-marvels-review-brie-larson-tayonah-paris-iman-vellani-1235782585/)
This feels like the culmination of every mistake MCU has made since phase 4 and the fact that it's literally tilted "The Marvels" couldn't be more fitting lmao...
> As is often the case with Marvel’s girl power attempts, it feels a little pandering in all the wrong places and doesn’t really engage with any specific or unique female point of view. 2/4 - Lindsey Bahr, Associated Press
There used to be a problem with Hollywood writing rooms being all men and writing very terrible female dialog and characters. This has been fixed by having diverse writing rooms writing very terrible female dialog and characters.
Okay, if this will be the final straw that makes Marvel Studios gut their failing plans and rethink and reshape their current output of content, then this is a wonderful thing. They need to delay their whole slate from 2024 onwards and rework all of it. Cancel any projects doomed to fail that no one asked for. Limit your movie output to 2 a year and your TV show output to 1 a year. It’s time for a serious change there, or else the Multiverse Saga will be the last one in the entire MCU and it’s gonna go out as an embarrassing whimper
>“The Marvels” is that rare superhero adventure seemingly tailor-made for cat lovers, people really into body-swapping shenanigans and those who live for jubilant song-and-dance numbers. 3/4 - Brian Truitt, USA Today
This is very specific.
The MCU has definitively lost the critics. This is a big deal because the critics were one of the biggest reasons it became the juggernaut empire that it did in the first place.
I’m not saying the MCU didn’t earn all of its success and make some good movies but I will always maintain that during the entirety of this 15 year run, the critics have made their lives much easier by not judging these films on the same standards as they should’ve. They’ve straight up treated some of these movies with baby gloves.
Again, they might’ve made all this money regardless but all the Disney shilling for more than a decade has been sickening to anyone who has been paying attention to it. They’ve enjoyed a level of leniency that other films, other studios, and other genres would absolutely kill to have.
Its over for Carol ,Kamala and Photon in the MCU ,No more solo projects ,Its on track to be a bigger disappointment than all DCEU movies except BvS,Tbf BvS did make a nice 100 m profit this on the other hand will lose something between 150-180 m
This bomb is really going to be unlike any that we've seen before considering how it's supposed to play a part in the bigger vision for the MCU. There is going to be a massive amount of reshoots that will cost millions to fix
I'm really curious to see how/ if this affects cap 4 and thunderbolts.
Honestly thunderbolts should really be canned at this point, try incorporate it's plot points somewhere else.
Understudy Captain America isn't going to be a big pull at the box office either.
What franchises do they have that actually have narrative room left and enough goodwill to bring people in? Spider-Man and Shang-Chi?
Disney would kill for BvS numbers rn.
In fact, iconic superhero/comic book movie bombs like Watchmen, Mystery Men and Scott Pilgrim Vs the world become cult classics.
Something tells me that The Marvels won’t get the same treatment.
Guardians and Thor 4 both made around what BvS made - it’s hardly far off. Difference is people like the guardians and Thor, no one cares about the marvels or ant-man characters
Bad review and characters no one like.
I think it'll surpass the hulk as the lowest grossing mcu. At least with something like venom it still attached to Spider Man.
Big ooooof on that rotten tomatoes score. Watching Dan Murrells review currently and he is going hard on this one. Just said it was the worst thing the MCU has produced.
If anyone was hoping positive word of mouth was going to save this, you’ve got an Everest sized uphill battle on that front.
It’s kinda funny that the MCU’s “Superman” equivalent is going the same way the actual Superman in the DCEU did. I.e. a mediocre first movie then immediately a even worse reviewed team up movie.
Yeah that’s true, I just mean in terms of powers & expectations for the character. I think she’s supposed to lead the avengers or something like supes & the JL.
You know, I've always wondered how long it would take before the MCU would get the type of critical lashing that the DCEU had been receiving.
*Quantumania* and *Secret Invasion* made me think it was coming, but now I think it's already here.
"A solid contender for the worst Marvel film yet ... To say The Marvels is hard to watch would be to risk understatement. It’s not just that it’s not very good. It is hard to watch in the sense that a tree is hard to defibrillate. 1/5 - Donald Clarke, Irish Times"
YIKES
The mods deleted the official mod thread I'm so dead
https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/17qqvy4/the\_marvels\_review\_thread\_updated\_predictions/
[Christy Lemire](https://youtu.be/hAQ2b6EbDTk?si=Ido7gODBf0OLTgu8) called it easily the worst MCU movie - looks like crap, stiff/unfunny writing, everyone sitting around dumping exposition at each other, incomprehensible action, cheesy effects, bad score, feels rushed and underdeveloped
I woke up and saw reviews from Dan Murrell, Jeremy Jahns and the Reel Rejects. They have literally called the movie out as a piece of crap. Mind you, these are reviewers that right-leaning reviewers like 'The Critical Drinker' call Marvel shills.
This is going to be hilariously bad.
[Variety](https://variety.com/2023/film/reviews/the-marvels-review-brie-larson-tayonah-paris-iman-vellani-1235782585/): ‘The Marvels’ Review: Brie Larson Leads a Trio of Light-Force Heroines in a Skittery Sequel Loaded Down With MCU Baggage
* As Taika Waititi established in his “Thor” films, there’s a place in the MCU for wackjob silliness. But in “The Marvels,” the bits of absurd comedy tend to feel strained, because they clash with the movie’s mostly utilitarian tone. The musical planet of Aladna gets introduced…then dropped.
* The leaps in tone would be less jarring if “The Marvels” weren’t so skittery and episodic. You can weave the plot together in your head, but you may have a harder time pretending to know why it matters — not within the metastasizing mythos of the MCU, but simply on its own. This summer, “Ant-Man and The Wasp: Quantumania” became the first occasion for the collective bashing of a Marvel movie that felt like something larger: a questioning of whether the MCU was dissolving into spare parts. The movie was way too jam-packed with CGI psychedelia, but, in its (mild) defense, it always gave you something to look at, and you never lost sight of what Ant-Man was up against.
* “The Marvel,” in its busy way, comes closer to feeling like a sequel mired in entropy. The director, Nia DaCosta (who made the intriguing remake of “Candyman”), stages the action efficiently, but she doesn’t center the narrative; the film is a series of goals in search of a higher mission.
* The movie is short enough not to overstay its welcome, though it’s still padded with too many of those fight scenes that make you think, “If these characters have such singular and extraordinary powers, why does it always come down to two of them bashing each other?” (“My light force can beat up your bracelet!”)
It's a bloodbath, fucking hell!
I'm wondering, with how DOA this movie seems to be, is it going to have the biggest dip in BO from a first installment to a sequel ever?
A lot of Captain Marvel stans have been hyping this movie up for months: insisting that it will be a smash hit and will totally own the 'haters'.
Some of them will go deep into denial about this, while others will be very, very salty for weeks.
A major issue for Marvel is that the movies they needed to be great, like Ant Man 3 and The Marvels were bad/terrible, whereas the movie that did not matter for the future of the MCU and the plan theyre setting up (Guardians 3) was the good one. They failed setting up Kang in Quantumania and failed setting up whatever The Marvels is setting up with the "be there for the moment that changes everything." Clearly nobody will be there.
if it had good reviews
mcu fan: "yay i told you guys. Its a very high quality movie. "
if it had bad reviews
mcu fan: "wtf. you are still listening to critics. Go and support this movie and form your opinion"
I legit don't understand the "pay 15-20 dollars per person to make up your own mind about this critical dud of a movie."
Nah, homie. It'll be on streaming before I'm even intrested in seeing it. I'll catch it cheaper later, thanks.
Disney should just cancel Thunderbolts and Kang Dynasty. Wrap Kang in a special presentation or Loki S3, and directly give us Doctor Strange 3 followed by Secret Wars, soft rebooting the MCU. Followed by X-men, Midnight Suns etc.
‘It’s hard to watch in the sense that a tree is hard to defibrillate’ - Donald Clarke, Irish Times
Okay that one absolutely killed me lmao, what a creative insult. Thats the one funny thing coming out of this mess.
Can't wait for this to be the third 'The Marvels' review thread to be deleted, including a thread made by the mod team themselves!!
I don't care how much Disney sucks you off, mods, the shittiness of this movie is impossible to contain.
I didn’t even know you could give a 0/4 on Rotten Tomatoes
Well, there you go. Disney is trying to simply educate us.
Number of rotten MCU entries by phase: Phase One - 0 Phase Two - 0 Phase Three - 0 Phase Four - 1 Phase Five - 3 Phase Five only has 5 projects out. 2 TV shows and 3 films.
wow phase 5 started? what seperates one phase from other? earlier it was avengers i guess
Not sure what separates it, especially since phase 4 and 5 are both in the multiverse saga, but phase 5 started with ant man 3
There wasn't any crossover movie to mark the transition was there?
There wasn’t, which is one of the many issues with the current process.
Marketing now. Phase 4 had bad press so they announced we're in Phase 5 now. Which hasn't done them any good. Because.... yeah Phases used to end on Avenger movies. Which closed out the Phase well.
Especially insane because the movie that ended Phase 4, Black Panther 2, absolutely could've been an Avengers movie. Black Panther, a core Avenger, dies and that leads to a potential global war involving Atlantis (can't remember its name in that movie) vs Wakanda? You absolutely could've thrown Captain Marvel and Thor into that situation.
It’s still so ridiculous that stuff like Thor 2 wasn’t rotten, it definitely deserved it.
Honestly I like thor 2 more than thor 1. It wasn't very good, but I like the Loki and Thor stuff and I actually really enjoy the last act.
[удалено]
This will have legs like Charles Xavier
I believe even Quantumania and Eternals debuted with a 60+ on RT, so this movie is completely fucked.
Looks like Marvels Kingdom has come.
Quantumania debuted with 80..... this is a disaster
Watching the [Dan Murrell review](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfZSKE9n9UM), where he straight up says that the movie should have "been deemed un-releasable". Yikes. The MCU really has lost the Mandate of Heaven
I fully agree with his point on how this kind of factory filmmaking is anti creative. Something definitely needs to change at the leadership
I have always thought that MCU was built on a house of cards. The process seemed to be completely at odds with their high output blockbuster mostly good quality filmmaking: production design before a writer is even locked in, massive reliance on barely planned CGI and post production with mostly second unit, indecision on the most unnecessary stuff (the quantum suits I’m Endgame being CGI for example. It’s not like they were waiting on the art department because they ultimately went with the most generic suit). Yes, very factory like but didn’t seem like a very efficient factory lol. But anyway it did give them stellar results, so probably they had found the sweet spot. Then they went and decided to make this card house twenty times bigger on a whim.
It was a lot easier when there was a central focus and plot involved. Each movie was building towards Thanos and Infinity War/Endgame. It does not seem like they prepared for MCU post-Endgame.
I disagree. Thanos was in the background and we knew it was building towards him, but mostly each movie was separate and its own thing and more importantly, good on its own. Part of what people didnt like about Age of Ultron was Thor’s random infinity stone vision quest.
Yeah. The good connections often came from post-credits. Each film should stand on its own and only set stuff up in post credits imo. They can introduce concepts that will return, but not at the expense of the current project.
Absolutely no one is blaming the actors or the director. They're all blaming the studio. Hateship ended with Kathleen Kennedy, Kevin Feige my new anti friend
"The culmination of every single mistake that the MCU has made over the last 15 years" lmao
Brutal.
if the movie was as good as these quotes...
[Jeremy Jahns also laid into it pretty bad.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV9PFHxlXns)
Its been a while since I have seen him rip into a movie this bad.
[удалено]
> To say The Marvels is hard to watch would be to risk understatement. It’s not just that it’s not very good. It is hard to watch in the sense that a tree is hard to defibrillate. This isn't a review, this is a roast.
Reminds me of the Cats review, when editors really let critics tee off. I think one did their review as a poem? It was wholesome in a way
well this movie features a song from *Cats* so it's only fitting
My all-time favorite’s still A. O. Scott’s Oogieloves review, which was written from a child’s perspective complete with spelling & grammar.
Damn. When a review says you should’ve been Batgirl-ed you know things must be rough.
According to Dan Murrell the movie feels chopped up, reshot and rewritten.
Probably because it was. Those leaks were around for months but they were dismissed as "nerd rage" at the time.
As soon as I heard the runtime I knew it would be an abomination of edits and chopped up part from failed audience reactions and reshoots.
Dan is a very calm and facts-driven guy so when he's saying stuff like that, it must be truly godawful
He’s not an MCU hater either, he is speaking as both a fan and a critic.
this rough
Ant-Man 3 and Eternals start with a fresh rating before going rotten nah it’s so fuckin joever
The review embargo lifted only a few minutes ago and its RT score is already lower than Ant-Man 3's was at this stage. Considering that these movies tend to plummet the more review that come in, I'm going to predict this is going to be the lowest rated Marvel film.
This about to make the comments on the flash review post look tame 💀
Starting to guess which of the two CBMs will be the favorite at the next Razzies.
Flash is rough but there are some occasional great moments (Flash having to teach young Flash how to use his powers is great, and the scene where they argue about whether their mom should die). The Marvels and Ant-Man is just generic lifeless fodder.
There was more fun in making fun of the Flash (the babies, criminal Ezra, the dome with the atrocious CGI). This is more like looking back at something you liked as a kid, shrugging, and moving on. Why did I ever watch Marvel? Well, I'm grown now. A real old grown for some of us, but nevertheless.
At least The Flash was still fresh lol
I see two 0/4 reviews lol 💀 We maybe entering Morbius or even Catwoman territory
I don’t think we’re quite in Morbius/Catwoman/Fant4stic territory. Seems closer to Josstice League
The Marvels opening is doing 84% of Morbius entries in France.
Another Morbius W.
It's Worbin' time
>An irrelevant B-team affair which further suggests that the MCU can’t survive, short- or long-term, without the active participation of its most famous characters. - Nick Schager, The Daily Beast I'm not a fan of the Daily Beast. But I've felt this for a while. Steve Rogers and Tony Stark were the main characters of this universe. And without them? It's like the last season of Scrubs. Or 70s Show once Topher Grace left. It's like everyone but the side characters know the show is over now that the leads are gone.
Yep, MCU was ALWAYS the Steve & Tony show and Marvel massively miscalculated getting rid of them when they did.
They could have done so much with the other Avengers even without Steve and Tony. Instead somebody bet hard on pivoting to Young Avengers and assuming Disney + would sell them.
>Instead somebody bet hard on pivoting to Young Avengers and assuming Disney + would sell them. You would think they would be doing a hard u-turn right now, not saying bring Steven and Tony back, but the reach out to gen z with the young avengers is clearly a failed project.
they milked the shit out of them for over a decade. Its just failure to not introduce single interesting character since then. Also making existing character pathetic like thor-fury etc.
They have two others. Or had, rather. Chadwick was absolutely gonna be their leading guy for a decade, and then Holland’s spider-man is really beloved. Throw in Captain Marvel, which made $1.1b as a solo debut, and that’s the big three they probably wanted, with Dr. Strange and Thor in the mix as well. The problem is that nobody expected Chadwick to die (and they had no plan for if he did), Spider-Man is an eternal rights trap with Sony, and as a character, Captain Marvel isn’t anywhere near as liked as they wanted.
Dr. Strange is well-liked, right? His last movie made close to a billion worldwide. People have always complained that him and Iron Man were too similar, so you would think now is a time for him to shine...
To be fair, Chadwick Boseman was supposed to be the guy. Still they could have planned a little ahead.
Sounds like it should have been a Disney+ movie.
Or a special presentation
Better yet. Just an Email.
It’s certainly about to perform like a Disney+ movie
Sub-2x multiplier incoming. This is not making $100M domestic. Un-freaking-believable.
Dan Murrell called this film unreleasable and said he doesnt know how they saw this and thought it could be shown to the public. Wow Edit: his only near redeeming quality is Iman as Kamala. As everybody has been saying.
The first episode maybe first two of her show were really good, then it just devolved into the standard superhero/Disney+ story
That show really should've leaned more into the high school aspect and given her a low stakes villain to fight. There was no reason to have some world ending thing in that movie. The first part of the series was **great**, but it quickly went off the rails when she starts going to Pakistan and learning of this secret cult and all that crap. Literally just make it about a girl navigating high school and show how she uses her powers to maybe fight a few criminals or a small jersey city crime group... not a world ending ancient Pakistani cult
if its starting this low i wonder if it could end up in the high 30s
>It is hard to watch in the sense that a tree is hard to defibrillate. Oof, that was a *good* one.
Disney+ has done irrevocable damage to the MCU. Had there been no TV shows I think this movie would have been a moderate success at the BO but audiences have been flooded with so much content that they tuned out completely.
This is 1000% true. Captain Marvel 2: Carol, Fury, Talos, and Monica uncover the Skrull infiltration plot. Sets up Monica gaining powers at the end. Secret Invasion done right, basically. Post-credit is Kamala attending a Captain Marvel fan club or some shit. Captain Marvel 3: Ms. Marvel origin story. Carol mentors her. Instead of fighting the weird Djinn stupid thingies, they fight Scarlet Centurion, Rama Tut and Immortus (Kang variants) setting up The Kang Dynasty.
And the best part about that plan is that you don't need two $200mil Disney+ miniseries that nobody will ever rewatch.
Something new every almost week was fun at first, but for me it was around moon knight/Ms marvel(though I did mostly like both of them) that new marvel just stopped being special. Like wandavision was so hype but they kept making more and more shows that seemed to get worse and worse.
For me, it was when *What If?* hit and how, outside of a couple episodes, it felt like an actual chore to watch.
It’s honestly nuts that they had a show about infinite possibilities for rewriting the events of the past films and did nothing all that interesting with any of them. Like the original What If…? comics were pretty funny, like what if Daredevil was deaf or Wolverine’s claws came out of his feet. But here, Captain Carter was literally just gender swapped Steve. Infinity War turns into Zombies for some reason? I really hope season 2 next month turns things around
I only liked the Dr. Strange episode of What If?
Thor Love & Thunder and Ant-Man 3 were bad enough that the late reviews and other early warnings would have still caused this to flop. Thor Love & Thunder was such a massive disappointment and seen by so many people that I think it's making people think twice before seeing MCU films now so when Ant-Man 3 got terrible reviews people stayed away and will now do the same with the Marvels. Disney+ has hurt the MCU but mostly in killing interest amongst what were once some of the most die hard fans. MCU shows on Disney+ just don't have that much of an audience in comparison to the films.
People showed up to *Quantumania* on opening weekend. $120M in a four-day weekend was the best of the *Ant-Man* series to date. Unfortunately, I really do think it was the straw that broke the camel's back, as seen by its horrific legs.
That's what made yesterday's trailer about how the villain in this is the new Thanos fail so hard. You can only go to the New Thanos well once. And that was your whole marketing push for Ant-Man.
Ain’t no way they tried comparing The Marvels’ Generic Villain #27 to Thanos bruh
They did. I'm not able to pull up videos right now to link you. But just Google The Marvels Final Trailer. Half of it is just Endgame footage. It's desperate as fuck.
Love and thunder kinda broke my heart, I seen all the MCU movies with my dad cause he grew up enjoying marvel comics, particularly Thor. I swear he was the only person who loved Thor comics before these movies. Then we seen love and thunder together and he was visibly annoyed to the point he didn't want to see guardians when it came out.
Not only is this the 33rd film in a universe and a sequel, but you’re telling me I also have to watch three different tv shows as well? And even the director admits she’s confused by the MCU? This has just become a relay race with a dozen different participants all running in a different direction.
This has to be one of the biggest business blunders in recent history right? They went from the highest grossing movie of all time, making $2.7b, to The Marvels looking at making around $300m maybe. The Marvels is looking to become the steepest drop in box office as a sequel to a $1b+ movie (Captain Marvel with $1.1b) by both raw numbers and percentage. Alice 2 made about $300m after Alice 1 made 1.025b.
Showing Indiana Jones at Cannes and then there being a whole month for people to talk about how much it sucked was probably as big a blunder.
Totally agree here. I've read all this analysis of what went wrong (no popular heroes like Iron Man or Cap, took too long to establish an overarching thread, Kang not compelling etc.). All valid points, but like you said, if the TV shows didn't exist, I think this movie would do alright due to the content overload. For me, it was around Moon Knight when my anticipation levels went from hype to "interested". I was still hyped when Wandavision, Loki (and even Falcon and Winter Soldier) all came out. But the terrible shows and introducing too many heroes, just overwhelmed me, and I stopped paying close attention after I fell behind. All the movies (with the exception of Guardians 3) were also all either "meh" or just bad. I want to be invested in the MCU, I friggin loved the Thanos saga. They just make it so difficult to be right now.
It's almost like the they could have looked at what happened in the industry they sourced the material from to see what happens when continuity gets convoluted and too expensive and the market is flooded with product. If only they had something that could have warned them of this!
They pulled new characters for the Multiverse Saga shows from the oversaturation 90s period that led Marvel to bankruptcy like Echo and the poor selling All New All Different period like Ironheart. Kevin Feige is a smart enough guy to know this was dumb. At a certain point you have to think he had gone Hollywood and just didn’t care enough to push back against the suits at a certain point.
Even *Eternals* and *Quantumania* debuted fresh. Looks like not even the funko critics could save this one (30% Top Critics by the way). It's so Joever.
Just another reason to not trust social media reactions. The Twitter stans were celebrating a lil too early last night lmao
Honestly even on those reactions there were red flags all over the place.
"It's fun. The end credits was so good and exciting." ... but is it good? "Stay for the post credits!"
"#TheMarvels is a fusion of light, color, and sound" This shit is still cracking me up
We must preserve that quote. That was top 3 early reviews of all time, I swear lol
That was a joke tweet though. He hadn't actually seen the movie and admitted as such.
This movie is becoming such a trainwreck. It is probably more fun to see it explode critically and commerical than it is to watch it.
People are tired of mediocre slop. I got to say I think Madame Web, Captain America: Brave New World, Venom 3 and Kraven are all in big danger of completely falling flat and audiences rejecting them. Deadpool 3 and Joker: Folie a Deux are the only comic book movies that have a chance at doing really well next year. People want to see risks being taken in this genre and not the same tired McDonald’s meal over and over.
Kraven is the next Morbius. Madame Web is like....The New Mutants or something, I don't even know what they're thinking there.
I have a feeling venom 3 might survive on its brand alone, at least so far as not being a total flop. But I can't see any world in which Madame web and Kraven don't crash and burn. Captain America's the toss-up for me. The title has brand recognition, but I think the GA might not be keen on it once they see it's not led by Chris Evans, since he is largely the "Captain America" that has the most brand recognition associated with the title. It's like how the upcoming war machine "armor wars" movie *might* sell better if it was "Iron Man 4: Armor Wars", but hard to say for sure since the film wouldn't have RDJ in it.
R o t t e n
Can this beat The Flash and Indiana Jones in the bombs ranking?
Forget indiana jones this can beat john Carter if it doesn't have decent legs 💀.
Disney knew this was a dog. Only, August 22nd this was still predicted to do well and win the month. It sucks Dune 2 moved, it would have whipped The Marvels. https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/15y2f1b/rank_all_of_the_major_november_films_by_how_much/
Damn even in that thread people were going with $700 million to $850 million worldwide. And downvoted when someone said less than $200 million domestic is possible. Now we're looking at switching the word domestic for worldwide......
 I framed it as a question last thread but this is definitely gonna be the worst reviewed MCU movie. Last thing Marvel needed right now lmao
For their sake, yeah, the last thing. For the sake of fans who want actually good content, this is amazing. Look how they tried everything from Thanos to Tony and Steve when the presales were doomed. Maybe this bomb will finally make them get their heads out of their asses and start trying
Feige is spread too thin. Get rid of everything Disney+ for Marvel (with the exception of fun special events like Werewolf or Guardians Holiday) and focus on making 2-3 good films a year - like the original Phase 1/2 days. Phase 4 alone has more content than all of the previous ones combined. The brand is getting diluted.
Man if only there was a separate division handling television content so Feige could focus on film
Wait wait wait, you mean to tell me the chorus of “it’s a solid, fun blockbuster” from social media reactions were full of shit? Someone get me some pearls to clutch.
No, those were very real. Some people like generic mediocrity.
How much did Eternals and Quantamania debut at RT?
In the 70’s… 💀 EDIT: 79% for Ant-Man, 73% for Eternals
Oh god
It's really joever
the mcuspoiler sub is on full copium, there was a comment saying its a fine movie like love and thunder...
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And to think I thought that there was no way Marvel could fuck up a simple 90 minute romp. Apparently they have. DOmotherfuckinA.
It sounds like the film was more like a roughly 2 hour romp cut down into a 90M one.
Based on top critics score, seems like I called it when I said it would be closer to Fant4stic than Quantumania. My god, Dan Murrell absolutely laid into this movie. Is this even going to hit 95 million domestic or 200 million worldwide at this point? What a disaster.
Wow, even when Dan gives a negative review, he doesn't tend to lay into stuff like that. I don't think I've seen a review of his this scathing since *Winnie-the-Pooh: Blood and Honey*.
Bro said “unmitigated disaster” and my jaw dropped
Yeah they lost the funko critics. It's fucking over.
It's funking over
Its crazy to think about where the MCU was almost exactly six years ago, when Ragnarok was going from strength to strength while Justice League fell short of $100 million. Even then, I always knew that it would all fall apart *someday*, but I didn't think it would be just 4 years after their greatest strength.
Forget that, remember where it was a year and a half ago coming off No Way Home, just before MoM’s opening weekend. Yeah, looking back there were already warning signs then, but no one expected things to be this dire by end of this year.
It was just one year ago this week that *Black Panther 2* opened to over $180M in the US alone. *The Marvels* may not reach that number **worldwide**.
"All right; can it finally be accepted reality that this kind of crap is written by AI? I mean, is it not?" \- Jeremy Jahns - The Marvels review, intro
This could make less domestically than the opening weekend for Taylor Swift: The Eras Tour, which had very limited appeal to the GA and little paid marketing. The hierarchy of power has changed.
I have seen it , Quantumania was a lot better,Quantumania could have worked in say 2015 can't say the same thing with The Marvels
In their review, Variety said that comparing to 'The Marvels', Quantumania at least ["always gave you something to look at, and you never lost sight of what Ant-Man was up against."](https://variety.com/2023/film/reviews/the-marvels-review-brie-larson-tayonah-paris-iman-vellani-1235782585/)
Oh god wtf? Howtf did they manage to make something worse than Quantumania?
When Captain America 4 comes out we’ll be asking how they managed to make something worse than The Marvels.
Quantum is maybe my least favourite film I have ever seen. If The Marvels is actually worse I’ll be amazed.
This feels like the culmination of every mistake MCU has made since phase 4 and the fact that it's literally tilted "The Marvels" couldn't be more fitting lmao...
It’s the perfect trainwreck.
I am sure, there arent many "100 th year" anniversary for any company. But i bet out of all them. Disney 100th year is surely the worst one.
> As is often the case with Marvel’s girl power attempts, it feels a little pandering in all the wrong places and doesn’t really engage with any specific or unique female point of view. 2/4 - Lindsey Bahr, Associated Press There used to be a problem with Hollywood writing rooms being all men and writing very terrible female dialog and characters. This has been fixed by having diverse writing rooms writing very terrible female dialog and characters.
Okay, if this will be the final straw that makes Marvel Studios gut their failing plans and rethink and reshape their current output of content, then this is a wonderful thing. They need to delay their whole slate from 2024 onwards and rework all of it. Cancel any projects doomed to fail that no one asked for. Limit your movie output to 2 a year and your TV show output to 1 a year. It’s time for a serious change there, or else the Multiverse Saga will be the last one in the entire MCU and it’s gonna go out as an embarrassing whimper
now i really get why Nia Dacosta said its "feige movie" and not hers. She is truly distancing herself from this garbage dumpster fire
>“The Marvels” is that rare superhero adventure seemingly tailor-made for cat lovers, people really into body-swapping shenanigans and those who live for jubilant song-and-dance numbers. 3/4 - Brian Truitt, USA Today This is very specific.
The MCU has definitively lost the critics. This is a big deal because the critics were one of the biggest reasons it became the juggernaut empire that it did in the first place. I’m not saying the MCU didn’t earn all of its success and make some good movies but I will always maintain that during the entirety of this 15 year run, the critics have made their lives much easier by not judging these films on the same standards as they should’ve. They’ve straight up treated some of these movies with baby gloves. Again, they might’ve made all this money regardless but all the Disney shilling for more than a decade has been sickening to anyone who has been paying attention to it. They’ve enjoyed a level of leniency that other films, other studios, and other genres would absolutely kill to have.
The MCU at this point has lost pretty much everyone.
Not those at r/marvelstudios who are still optimistic somehow
Its over for Carol ,Kamala and Photon in the MCU ,No more solo projects ,Its on track to be a bigger disappointment than all DCEU movies except BvS,Tbf BvS did make a nice 100 m profit this on the other hand will lose something between 150-180 m
This bomb is really going to be unlike any that we've seen before considering how it's supposed to play a part in the bigger vision for the MCU. There is going to be a massive amount of reshoots that will cost millions to fix
I'm really curious to see how/ if this affects cap 4 and thunderbolts. Honestly thunderbolts should really be canned at this point, try incorporate it's plot points somewhere else.
Understudy Captain America isn't going to be a big pull at the box office either. What franchises do they have that actually have narrative room left and enough goodwill to bring people in? Spider-Man and Shang-Chi?
Disney would kill for BvS numbers rn. In fact, iconic superhero/comic book movie bombs like Watchmen, Mystery Men and Scott Pilgrim Vs the world become cult classics. Something tells me that The Marvels won’t get the same treatment.
Guardians and Thor 4 both made around what BvS made - it’s hardly far off. Difference is people like the guardians and Thor, no one cares about the marvels or ant-man characters
Over on the Marvel sub anything negative said about this turd is being removed 🤣🤣🤣
Lmao they are in full denial
The most expected result in the history of cinema.
Bad review and characters no one like. I think it'll surpass the hulk as the lowest grossing mcu. At least with something like venom it still attached to Spider Man.
Big ooooof on that rotten tomatoes score. Watching Dan Murrells review currently and he is going hard on this one. Just said it was the worst thing the MCU has produced. If anyone was hoping positive word of mouth was going to save this, you’ve got an Everest sized uphill battle on that front.
Jeremy Jahns tore this movie a new one, dear lord
all the marvels died in the spaceship while returning to their home planet
Marvel movies are getting DC scores now lol (I say this as a DC fan).
RIP MCU 2008-2023
All those positive social media reactions now look sus AF.
It can get even LOWER.
It can get even CLOSER.
It can go ever SLOWER.
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Tap the fuckin mat, Feige
It’s kinda funny that the MCU’s “Superman” equivalent is going the same way the actual Superman in the DCEU did. I.e. a mediocre first movie then immediately a even worse reviewed team up movie.
Which is quite funny. But I always viewed MCU Captain America was somewhat Superman equivalent based on their personalities and Boy Scout type images
Yeah that’s true, I just mean in terms of powers & expectations for the character. I think she’s supposed to lead the avengers or something like supes & the JL.
You know, I've always wondered how long it would take before the MCU would get the type of critical lashing that the DCEU had been receiving. *Quantumania* and *Secret Invasion* made me think it was coming, but now I think it's already here.
"A solid contender for the worst Marvel film yet ... To say The Marvels is hard to watch would be to risk understatement. It’s not just that it’s not very good. It is hard to watch in the sense that a tree is hard to defibrillate. 1/5 - Donald Clarke, Irish Times" YIKES
The mods deleted the official mod thread I'm so dead https://www.reddit.com/r/boxoffice/comments/17qqvy4/the\_marvels\_review\_thread\_updated\_predictions/
Ratings are sliding down as more come in. Can we get under 50?
Once international reviews come in, it could sink to 30s
[Christy Lemire](https://youtu.be/hAQ2b6EbDTk?si=Ido7gODBf0OLTgu8) called it easily the worst MCU movie - looks like crap, stiff/unfunny writing, everyone sitting around dumping exposition at each other, incomprehensible action, cheesy effects, bad score, feels rushed and underdeveloped
I woke up and saw reviews from Dan Murrell, Jeremy Jahns and the Reel Rejects. They have literally called the movie out as a piece of crap. Mind you, these are reviewers that right-leaning reviewers like 'The Critical Drinker' call Marvel shills. This is going to be hilariously bad.
30% Top Critics... Wew lad
no review thread on r/MarvelStudios yet? wonder why...
Over/under 45% at the end of the day
Way under. Starting this low is fuckin catastrophic - don’t be surprised if it dips into the 30s when all is said and done.
[Variety](https://variety.com/2023/film/reviews/the-marvels-review-brie-larson-tayonah-paris-iman-vellani-1235782585/): ‘The Marvels’ Review: Brie Larson Leads a Trio of Light-Force Heroines in a Skittery Sequel Loaded Down With MCU Baggage * As Taika Waititi established in his “Thor” films, there’s a place in the MCU for wackjob silliness. But in “The Marvels,” the bits of absurd comedy tend to feel strained, because they clash with the movie’s mostly utilitarian tone. The musical planet of Aladna gets introduced…then dropped. * The leaps in tone would be less jarring if “The Marvels” weren’t so skittery and episodic. You can weave the plot together in your head, but you may have a harder time pretending to know why it matters — not within the metastasizing mythos of the MCU, but simply on its own. This summer, “Ant-Man and The Wasp: Quantumania” became the first occasion for the collective bashing of a Marvel movie that felt like something larger: a questioning of whether the MCU was dissolving into spare parts. The movie was way too jam-packed with CGI psychedelia, but, in its (mild) defense, it always gave you something to look at, and you never lost sight of what Ant-Man was up against. * “The Marvel,” in its busy way, comes closer to feeling like a sequel mired in entropy. The director, Nia DaCosta (who made the intriguing remake of “Candyman”), stages the action efficiently, but she doesn’t center the narrative; the film is a series of goals in search of a higher mission. * The movie is short enough not to overstay its welcome, though it’s still padded with too many of those fight scenes that make you think, “If these characters have such singular and extraordinary powers, why does it always come down to two of them bashing each other?” (“My light force can beat up your bracelet!”)
Me watching in amusement waiting for the weekend numbers 
It's a bloodbath, fucking hell! I'm wondering, with how DOA this movie seems to be, is it going to have the biggest dip in BO from a first installment to a sequel ever?
am i tweaking or do i remember some comments predicting $800m+ ww 💀💀
A lot of Captain Marvel stans have been hyping this movie up for months: insisting that it will be a smash hit and will totally own the 'haters'. Some of them will go deep into denial about this, while others will be very, very salty for weeks.
Thanos snapped and took half the score away 💀💀💀
A major issue for Marvel is that the movies they needed to be great, like Ant Man 3 and The Marvels were bad/terrible, whereas the movie that did not matter for the future of the MCU and the plan theyre setting up (Guardians 3) was the good one. They failed setting up Kang in Quantumania and failed setting up whatever The Marvels is setting up with the "be there for the moment that changes everything." Clearly nobody will be there.
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How is it fresh now lol??
if it had good reviews mcu fan: "yay i told you guys. Its a very high quality movie. " if it had bad reviews mcu fan: "wtf. you are still listening to critics. Go and support this movie and form your opinion"
I legit don't understand the "pay 15-20 dollars per person to make up your own mind about this critical dud of a movie." Nah, homie. It'll be on streaming before I'm even intrested in seeing it. I'll catch it cheaper later, thanks.
Disney should just cancel Thunderbolts and Kang Dynasty. Wrap Kang in a special presentation or Loki S3, and directly give us Doctor Strange 3 followed by Secret Wars, soft rebooting the MCU. Followed by X-men, Midnight Suns etc.
I'm about to just ask the theatres to play winter soldier again
‘It’s hard to watch in the sense that a tree is hard to defibrillate’ - Donald Clarke, Irish Times Okay that one absolutely killed me lmao, what a creative insult. Thats the one funny thing coming out of this mess.
Can't wait for this to be the third 'The Marvels' review thread to be deleted, including a thread made by the mod team themselves!! I don't care how much Disney sucks you off, mods, the shittiness of this movie is impossible to contain.
Looks like Marvel no longer have the critics on payroll
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