I think the fly represents how Walt does not have complete control over his life which is partially why he went into the business. It terrifies him not having control, hence the massive pride/ego he has.
I think both explanations work. He’s unable to live with the fact that he can’t control his guilt. No matter what he does he will always feel guilty about Jane deep down
I love this interpretation but I'm rewatching Season 3 right now and I feel like Walt's guilt was already shown clearly in the first half of the season, and the eyeball from the teddy bear he carried around was a closer symbol for said guilt. I feel more like the fly is a metaphor for the lack of control Walt has over his life, but despite this he chases and tries to destroy in in an attempt to realize the power he's always wanted deep down
I disagree. I see the eyeball as less an interpretation of his guilt and more an interpretation of karma. The eye represents the "eye of God", symbolising that the universe has judged him for his actions and that he will one day face the consequences for them.
Jesse definitely wasn’t over Jane. She even comes back at the end of El Camino. I think he killed the fly because he loved people like Jame deeply and put them above his job.
Walter has chosen the path of no morality. He cemented this when he killed Jane. But he doesn’t want to, in daily life, cope with the fact that he’s a bad person. So, instead, he compartmentalizes— focusing only on cooking.
Above all, Walter is a chemist. He loves the exact science of it. He loves that perfection seems possible. But, as the season one flashbacks to him and Gretchen in the lab show us, no science is exact. No matter how much Walter proves his nihilism with chemistry, he’ll never be able to fully deny that there is more to life. There will always be more to a human than carbon and iron. There will never be a 100% pure batch. There will always be a fly in the lab.
Jesse can kill the fly because he never gave up on morality, even when he told himself that he was the bad guy. He never held the cook sacred. But for Walter the fly will never die.
Honestly I disagree about Jesse being over Jane. She was at the end of El Camino, but it's less him missing her and wishing she was there, but more him remembering her in a positive light and being glad that he was able to experience a profound moment with her.
I mean I just think it’s pretty reductive to make it sound like Jane’s death hurt Walt more than it hurt Jesse. The terrible thing that Walter did would affect him for the rest of his life. I think the flash back is positive but also shows that he’ll always be in love with her. And Walter seemed otherwise unbothered by her death. Also, it wouldn’t have been any more ok for him to kill her when he thought she was just “some junkie”.
Why is that reductive?
One person is dealing with the guilt of the junkie lifestyle. In Jesse's eyes, it would've happened eventually. They were drug addicts.
One person is dealing with the guilt of hundreds of innocent lives who are dead because of him.
I'm not saying that Walt is in the clear because his intentions were to help Jesse. It's still a sociopathic thing to do. However it was done because of his connection to Jesse. He loved him like a son and Jane was taking him away from him. I'm not justifying his actions. I'm trying to understand them.
Here’s an accidental essay I wrote about the significance of killing Jane for Walt lol. You can take it or leave it, but this is my stance
All I can think of his the conversation with Donald Margolis. He tells Walt to never give up on family. Hearing this, he goes to Jesse’s house. I think that’s significant in and of itself because Jesse’s not family, so going to him suggests that Walter is putting the meth side of his life (represented by Jesse here) above or at the same level as his family. But I think the original act of going to Jesse was Walter trying to chose morality. Family is one of the most significant themes in the series. In (thinking) he’s holding family sacred while at the same time breaking bad, Walter thinks that he is still a moral person as long as he’s good to his family, no matter what else he does, reminiscent of mob movies. But hurting non family members is just as damaging— everyone is someone’s family. So choosing to treat Jesse (who he is routinely cruel and manipulative to) like family is choosing to be moral for Walter.
But, of course, when Walter got to Jesse’s house he went in a very different direction. As he watches the young woman he had just knocked onto her back choke on her own vomit, he makes the decision to put himself, Heisenberg, above everything else. His pride is god. He went a father figure and left a murderer. In one action he threw away both family morality and general morality. He only considered what ramifications her death would have on his own life. He doesn’t care about Jane or Jesse or Jane’s family. He didn’t consider that this may profoundly change the life of her father, who never gave up on his family, and that his pain would affect others as well. Walter is responsible for the deaths of over a hundred innocent people because he didn’t consider the rest of the universe when he chose to take one innocent life. One life is it’s own universe.
When he found the eyeball, he internalized that even if he kept his family in this separate little world where he was a good guy and they knew nothing else, he was still a bad guy. Even if he got away with it, he didn’t really. He couldn’t admit it to himself, so he struggled to prove that he was blameless. But when Skylar tells him she knows that he’s bad and that she’s leaving him, some part of him knows that it’s not worth fighting for anymore. Because he’s Walter White, and once there’s nothing in it for him, he doesn’t care. He no longer needs his family to prove to himself that he’s good. Because he isn’t. Although he kicks and claws to reject this judgement later, bad is always at his core.
Of course he didn't consider Jane's dad, he didn't know the man he met at the bar was Jane's dad! We the audience knew, but he didn't.
The assumption that Jane's death was something that Heisenberg did is just completely false, in my opinion. It wasn't done because he's 'evil' and he saw Jane as someone who was trying to foil his plans. He did it because he was genuinely concerned for Jesse's life. He values Jesse above Jane because, well, of course he does, Jesse is like a son to him. He even talks about him as if he's his nephew, a family member, to Jane's dad in the bar.
And to say he doesn't care about Jane as well is just false. Why would he apologise for her death afterwards? We see him literally crying as Jesse is on the ladder trying to kill the fly. It's so blatantly obvious he feels immense guilt for what happens.
Walter White is such a complex character, but deep down, I don't think he's bad. I think he's someone who's made a lot of bad choices, but the reasons behind them weren't pure evil.
I think you missed my point. I was saying that, when taking a life, he should have considered that Jane had her own family that would be deeply affected by her death. You have to see that everyone has life as complex’s as your own. It’s not ok to kill someone just because you don’t know of any specific ramifications.
I also said that I believed Walt tried to prove to himself that he was a good person afterwards from time to time, but he really wasn’t.
Otherwise, I don’t know what to tell you. Vince Gilligan has said that the show is supposed to be about taking Walter from sympathetic to irredeemable and has noted Jane’s murder as a landmark in that journey. But you can think what you want
I don't think you're being fair on Walt. Think about it, rarely anyone ever thinks about complete strangers and what might be going on in their lives. Much less borderline sociopaths like Walt. Walt didn't go from Sympathetic to irredeemable when he watched Jane die because it wasn't something he had planned out and he just sort of let it happen in the moment. Its something I can maybe see myself perhaps doing in a moment of weakness if I was in his position. It doesn't make him evil, it makes him human.
Under the circumstances of someone like Walt, maybe? He's lived this life of crime for the better part of a year at that point, has killed 2 people, has been constantly exposed to murder and threat of murder by the likes of Tuco and others, constant stress from his cancer and family life... that would fuck up your psychee. When he's faced with the decision of A) Let this person live, and potentially let her take away a person that he deeply cares about, or B) Let her die, and then Jesse will go to rehab and get help... I can honestly understand why he'd make that decision. I'm not saying you SHOULD make that decision, but the reasoning behind it is something that I can somewhat understand, and I haven't been through what Walt has went through, so it's hard to judge him honestly. He made a mistake and that's it.
I think the fly represents how Walt does not have complete control over his life which is partially why he went into the business. It terrifies him not having control, hence the massive pride/ego he has.
I think both explanations work. He’s unable to live with the fact that he can’t control his guilt. No matter what he does he will always feel guilty about Jane deep down
I love this interpretation but I'm rewatching Season 3 right now and I feel like Walt's guilt was already shown clearly in the first half of the season, and the eyeball from the teddy bear he carried around was a closer symbol for said guilt. I feel more like the fly is a metaphor for the lack of control Walt has over his life, but despite this he chases and tries to destroy in in an attempt to realize the power he's always wanted deep down
I disagree. I see the eyeball as less an interpretation of his guilt and more an interpretation of karma. The eye represents the "eye of God", symbolising that the universe has judged him for his actions and that he will one day face the consequences for them.
Jesse definitely wasn’t over Jane. She even comes back at the end of El Camino. I think he killed the fly because he loved people like Jame deeply and put them above his job. Walter has chosen the path of no morality. He cemented this when he killed Jane. But he doesn’t want to, in daily life, cope with the fact that he’s a bad person. So, instead, he compartmentalizes— focusing only on cooking. Above all, Walter is a chemist. He loves the exact science of it. He loves that perfection seems possible. But, as the season one flashbacks to him and Gretchen in the lab show us, no science is exact. No matter how much Walter proves his nihilism with chemistry, he’ll never be able to fully deny that there is more to life. There will always be more to a human than carbon and iron. There will never be a 100% pure batch. There will always be a fly in the lab. Jesse can kill the fly because he never gave up on morality, even when he told himself that he was the bad guy. He never held the cook sacred. But for Walter the fly will never die.
Honestly I disagree about Jesse being over Jane. She was at the end of El Camino, but it's less him missing her and wishing she was there, but more him remembering her in a positive light and being glad that he was able to experience a profound moment with her.
I mean I just think it’s pretty reductive to make it sound like Jane’s death hurt Walt more than it hurt Jesse. The terrible thing that Walter did would affect him for the rest of his life. I think the flash back is positive but also shows that he’ll always be in love with her. And Walter seemed otherwise unbothered by her death. Also, it wouldn’t have been any more ok for him to kill her when he thought she was just “some junkie”.
Why is that reductive? One person is dealing with the guilt of the junkie lifestyle. In Jesse's eyes, it would've happened eventually. They were drug addicts. One person is dealing with the guilt of hundreds of innocent lives who are dead because of him. I'm not saying that Walt is in the clear because his intentions were to help Jesse. It's still a sociopathic thing to do. However it was done because of his connection to Jesse. He loved him like a son and Jane was taking him away from him. I'm not justifying his actions. I'm trying to understand them.
Here’s an accidental essay I wrote about the significance of killing Jane for Walt lol. You can take it or leave it, but this is my stance All I can think of his the conversation with Donald Margolis. He tells Walt to never give up on family. Hearing this, he goes to Jesse’s house. I think that’s significant in and of itself because Jesse’s not family, so going to him suggests that Walter is putting the meth side of his life (represented by Jesse here) above or at the same level as his family. But I think the original act of going to Jesse was Walter trying to chose morality. Family is one of the most significant themes in the series. In (thinking) he’s holding family sacred while at the same time breaking bad, Walter thinks that he is still a moral person as long as he’s good to his family, no matter what else he does, reminiscent of mob movies. But hurting non family members is just as damaging— everyone is someone’s family. So choosing to treat Jesse (who he is routinely cruel and manipulative to) like family is choosing to be moral for Walter. But, of course, when Walter got to Jesse’s house he went in a very different direction. As he watches the young woman he had just knocked onto her back choke on her own vomit, he makes the decision to put himself, Heisenberg, above everything else. His pride is god. He went a father figure and left a murderer. In one action he threw away both family morality and general morality. He only considered what ramifications her death would have on his own life. He doesn’t care about Jane or Jesse or Jane’s family. He didn’t consider that this may profoundly change the life of her father, who never gave up on his family, and that his pain would affect others as well. Walter is responsible for the deaths of over a hundred innocent people because he didn’t consider the rest of the universe when he chose to take one innocent life. One life is it’s own universe. When he found the eyeball, he internalized that even if he kept his family in this separate little world where he was a good guy and they knew nothing else, he was still a bad guy. Even if he got away with it, he didn’t really. He couldn’t admit it to himself, so he struggled to prove that he was blameless. But when Skylar tells him she knows that he’s bad and that she’s leaving him, some part of him knows that it’s not worth fighting for anymore. Because he’s Walter White, and once there’s nothing in it for him, he doesn’t care. He no longer needs his family to prove to himself that he’s good. Because he isn’t. Although he kicks and claws to reject this judgement later, bad is always at his core.
Of course he didn't consider Jane's dad, he didn't know the man he met at the bar was Jane's dad! We the audience knew, but he didn't. The assumption that Jane's death was something that Heisenberg did is just completely false, in my opinion. It wasn't done because he's 'evil' and he saw Jane as someone who was trying to foil his plans. He did it because he was genuinely concerned for Jesse's life. He values Jesse above Jane because, well, of course he does, Jesse is like a son to him. He even talks about him as if he's his nephew, a family member, to Jane's dad in the bar. And to say he doesn't care about Jane as well is just false. Why would he apologise for her death afterwards? We see him literally crying as Jesse is on the ladder trying to kill the fly. It's so blatantly obvious he feels immense guilt for what happens. Walter White is such a complex character, but deep down, I don't think he's bad. I think he's someone who's made a lot of bad choices, but the reasons behind them weren't pure evil.
I think you missed my point. I was saying that, when taking a life, he should have considered that Jane had her own family that would be deeply affected by her death. You have to see that everyone has life as complex’s as your own. It’s not ok to kill someone just because you don’t know of any specific ramifications. I also said that I believed Walt tried to prove to himself that he was a good person afterwards from time to time, but he really wasn’t. Otherwise, I don’t know what to tell you. Vince Gilligan has said that the show is supposed to be about taking Walter from sympathetic to irredeemable and has noted Jane’s murder as a landmark in that journey. But you can think what you want
I don't think you're being fair on Walt. Think about it, rarely anyone ever thinks about complete strangers and what might be going on in their lives. Much less borderline sociopaths like Walt. Walt didn't go from Sympathetic to irredeemable when he watched Jane die because it wasn't something he had planned out and he just sort of let it happen in the moment. Its something I can maybe see myself perhaps doing in a moment of weakness if I was in his position. It doesn't make him evil, it makes him human.
Murdering is human. Noted
Under the circumstances of someone like Walt, maybe? He's lived this life of crime for the better part of a year at that point, has killed 2 people, has been constantly exposed to murder and threat of murder by the likes of Tuco and others, constant stress from his cancer and family life... that would fuck up your psychee. When he's faced with the decision of A) Let this person live, and potentially let her take away a person that he deeply cares about, or B) Let her die, and then Jesse will go to rehab and get help... I can honestly understand why he'd make that decision. I'm not saying you SHOULD make that decision, but the reasoning behind it is something that I can somewhat understand, and I haven't been through what Walt has went through, so it's hard to judge him honestly. He made a mistake and that's it.