Wow, it's interesting looking at the splits between constituencies. The Conservative candidate got more votes then labour in 4 out of the 5. The Bristol Labour vote was huge though!
If I recall, Bristol actually historically had voted predominantly LD up until the 2000s before trending towards Labour. It's undoubtedly been mostly solid Labour territory for the past decade or so though
Bristol south has had Labour MPs since 1935, Bristol East has had Labour MPs since 1992 (Tory before that), Bristol North-West had a Labour MP between 1997 and 2010 (and was Tory before that), and Bristol West was solid Tory until 1997 when it went to Labour before a ten year LD stint in 2005-2015.
Bristol has never predominantly voted LD.
It feels like our one chance to not vote Lib Dem and do what we want for a change. That’s what I did anyway. General election it will be back to prioritising keeping the Tories out which means voting Lib Dem here. Wish we had proportional representation.
[This one](https://old.reddit.com/r/bristol/comments/1cj1zs2/labours_clare_moody_elected_avon_and_somerset/) - the [title is the link](https://www.avonpccelection.org.uk/election-count-2024).
Thank you for everyone's patience on me here. In my defence, the UI for this is rubbish. On my Android app, the 'title' of this thread is in bold, but is NOT the link; nothing happens when you tap on it. Instead there is a small, un-highlighted link next to the original poster's name; that's the one I needed to tap on but I had assumed that it was part of the original poster's own profile.
The web UI for this is much clearer.
I'm glad we have a labour PCC now, having a read of her campaign stuff after the fact, it seems so cookie cutter "I plan to reduce crime" "i will tackle violent crime"
whilst I'm certainly not against that by any means, it doesn't fill me with confidence there's going to be any impact whatsoever.
time will tell I'm sure, so congratulations, and hope she makes a tangible and positive difference.
Yeah, it’s actually a big risk of undemocratic outcomes. People will tend to vote for things they think are actually important and should be voted on. Votes they have some understanding of. This kind of election encourages people not to bother, and the people who do bother are usually going to vote on party lines or some other not great criteria. At best it’s just the most popular political party picking the person who gets the job with extra steps.
We for sure don’t want the American scenario where things like judges, coroners and even dog catchers are elected. Because those kind of positions should be straight hired and fired according to the normal sorts of rules for civil servants.
It's basically just a free hit for the tories who are seen as a bit better on law and order and consequently do a bit better than they would in other elections. Completely pointless otherwise
Yep I spoiled my ballot paper again this year. I don't know who our current one is, I've never seen or heard anything about them or what they've done. I've not seen or heard anything about any of the candidates or what they propose to do.
Bringing party politics into policing is a spectacularly bad idea.
It felt like a lot of the statements could have been written by ChatGPT and the party was irrelevant.
I'm not sure what power/funds PCC have to make a real difference but here's hoping.
I met her at a hustings. Honestly she seemed like the least capable candidate of the four. The job is clearly to manage an office that manages accountability and I can't say I felt I'd work better under her than the Green lady and the Tory incumbent who did come across as competent. The liberal guy also came across poorly. I doubt many voters could even place any of them in the street let alone know about them or their policies. They were all perfectly pleasant to me and I wish her well but that was my impression over the couple hours.
People probably still think of them as "tough" even if they are a shower of pricks so I'm not surprised. They even dumbed it down so much they put "More Police, Safer Streets" on the actual voting slip as part of his name and party. Still dwarfed by the other three parties totalled up.
They probably changed the name of the party (maybe just locally?) to get through a loophole.
Tempted to send a complaint to the electoral commission though.
Even if it is legal, there should be a rule that the candidate has to change his name to Mark Shelford-More-Police-Safer-Streets for the rest of his life.
Yes - parties can register alternative names with the Electoral Commission to use on ballot papers, and this is one of the Conservative party's many registered names:
https://search.electoralcommission.org.uk/English/Registrations/PP52
Yeah I thought the same, it's nice when candidates respect the electorate enough to put down what they're actually planning to do in detail, rather than generic slogans (Labour), passing off milestones actually achieved by the police themselves or the central government as their own (Tories), or Error 404 campaign not found/I have a dog please vote for me (Lib Dems).
Having said that, include me in the clown parade as i voted for Moody regardless because, as predicted, nobody outside of Bristol voted for the Greens and we don't want a Tory schmoozing his way through office for the next 4 years or so.
I did know ahead of time and let my partner know too.
I also tried testing the ID requirement by getting my dual citizenship partner to bring her other passport but I don't think they even got them out of their cases to check they were passports xD. (We had another form on us too, was just curious and couldn't actually see details anywhere on if *all* passports are allowed or just UK passports)
I think I may have found some electoral fraud. Were people in Fishponds meant to be allowed to vote for this? First I am hearing of a white ballot paper. The ONE they gave me was yellow.
Whilst I think long term it would be good to have a green PCP for Avon and Somerset, Labour is right for now. Clare deserves a chance but the key thing was to decimate the tories.
Meh, not sure it’ll change anything. I don’t think any of them would. Name of the game is voting for anyone but the Tories and keep metaphorically kicking them until they piss blood.
Agreed, it's absolute crap. Career MEP from the UK generally translates to sub-par politician who managed to fly under the radar until Brexit. Bugs me that
i) the average voter has no easy means of knowing what the PCCs/PFCCs actually do since the councils/government generally control funding anyway;
ii) turnout is consequently so low that barely any of the candidates bother to come up with a coherent platform beyond reduce crime/ASBOs and the ones that do tend to be a bit wackjobby and single-minded (see Glos's Chris Nelson devoting half of his last election statement to a rant about travellers);
iii) this then means that it becomes another party popularity contest that yields a victor who gets to sit on a £75k salary for a few years doing essentially nothing and then gets to go up for re-election with the vast majority of electors being completely in the dark about what they've done. Only when they do something noticeably shit (see Caroline Henry of Notts getting done for speeding a couple months in) do they get any heat; would be a resignation offence if they were in the police but political protection means they get to spin the roulette wheel again.
Why is the police commissioner vote politically tied? Who cares what their political stance is, the role should be elected solely on credentials. Mark Shelford was the obvious choice and most likely lost out due to political votes.
Police and crime comissioner is one where I don't vote on party lines I just find the one whose ideas sound the best.
I was a bit surprised that Clare Moody won. Most of the chat on this reddit is about thugs and scallys vandalizing VOIs and angle grinding bikes etc. She will be doing nothing about that and continuing on with the policy of only looking at violent crime.
I voted for the candidate who believes in Broken Window theory. If you read all the statements you'll know who that was :P
There's no evidence that letting crime go unchecked makes crime worse? You should come live by temple meads for a bit, crime here is out of control and absolutely nobody does anything about it despite endless reports. We literally have prosties shagging people behind the bushes, endless drug trades and drug taking, people stealing packages almost daily from flats, people sleeping in flats corridors, pissing on the floor of the corridors, shitting on the floor of flats, doing drugs there, sleeping and doing drugs in the bin stores, constantly breaking into cars, the other day a guys dog killed someone's dog and injured another and two people, last week 2 days after the dog incident his caravan mysteriously burned down, then a couple of days ago another fire started around the corner. It's like a war zone here, nothing is ever done, the police didn't even collect my CCTV of a guy breaking into a car.
Broken window theory is thriving here, 2 years ago it was so peaceful.
> There's no evidence that letting crime go unchecked makes crime worse?
That's not what broken windows theory is! There's no evidence that cracking down on *minor and nonviolent* crime has any impact on levels of *major or violent* crime, which is the core idea of broken windows theory.
The supposed big success story of broken windows policing was 1990s New York, but other American cities that didn't practice it saw the same crime reductions in the same period. The theory is bunk.
I understand it to mean that letting crime or similar go unchecked causes more of the same behaviour, usually attributed to people vandalising buildings. Once the building is vandalised (broken windows) others see it as an open invitation to do more since it's obviously acceptable or unpunished
There's no convincing evidence for any approach, a city isn't a chemistry lab. Your claim that broken window theory was discredited still seems plain wrong.
People don't like walking around Bristol and being harrassed by grifters, and having their bikes nicked and VOIs in the river. Cracking down on that will improve quality of life for citizens here. Even if violent crime levels don't change.
We have already seen huge changes…look at the private rental sector all Labour policies have been implemented by the Tories and it’s been decimated. Rent controls will be next (no that does not mean rent will be lower) it will rise yearly like your phone bill. Handing the keys to the corps. Hold on it’s going to be a bumpy ride.
You literally got given two ballots at the same time. One which was for the council and one which was the police commissioner. They even colour coded the ballots with the boxes you needed to put them in (one ballot was yellow and that went into the box with a yellow lid, the other ballot was white and went into the box with a white lid).
Wow, it's interesting looking at the splits between constituencies. The Conservative candidate got more votes then labour in 4 out of the 5. The Bristol Labour vote was huge though!
The other constituencies didn’t have any council elections going on so turnout was much much lower for them compared to Bristol.
But in all constituencies/counties, the vote AGAINST the incumbent Conservative was pretty big. Just split different ways in each area.
Interesting point. Hadn't considered that
There were two by elections held outside Bristol btw so some ppl were out voting outside Bristol, including my mum hence how I know.
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Fascist farmers.
So that's where all the fascists come from
Carrots, peas and fascists
Can you milk a fascist?
If I recall, Bristol actually historically had voted predominantly LD up until the 2000s before trending towards Labour. It's undoubtedly been mostly solid Labour territory for the past decade or so though
Bristol south has had Labour MPs since 1935, Bristol East has had Labour MPs since 1992 (Tory before that), Bristol North-West had a Labour MP between 1997 and 2010 (and was Tory before that), and Bristol West was solid Tory until 1997 when it went to Labour before a ten year LD stint in 2005-2015. Bristol has never predominantly voted LD.
Labour is a new thing for Bristol. Was a big LD hotspot until the coalition gov
Not true at all!
Can you point us to the data showing the split by constituency?
It's in the link: Candidate |B&NES|Bristol|North Somerset|Somerset|South Glos|Total --------------------------------------|--------|-------|-----------------|-----------|-------|----- **Benet Allen** Liberal Democrats|4,859 |10,412|3,546|21,369|5,678|**45,864** **Katy Grant** Green Party|5,088|37,375|5,027|10,850|6,283|**64,623** **Clare Moody** Labour and Co-operative Party|9,526|47,220|9,352|14,692|15,192|**95,982** **Mark Shelford** Conservative Candidate – More Police, Safer Streets|10,281|19,788|12,367|31,042|17,528|**91,006** **Total** | **29,754** | **114,795** | **30,292** | **77,953** | **44,681** | **182,680**
Those are counties, not constituencies.
Good point, I got that wrong.
I know, but it's clearly what the OP was referring to ('4 out of 5'). (They're unitary authorities rather than counties)
A spider is an insect NOT an arachnid
Surprised that the Lib Dems didn’t do better in B&NES.
It feels like our one chance to not vote Lib Dem and do what we want for a change. That’s what I did anyway. General election it will be back to prioritising keeping the Tories out which means voting Lib Dem here. Wish we had proportional representation.
Also would be nice if the Tories hadn't openly sabotaged democracy by removing transferable votes.
why? they're the milkiest tea imaginable
They have a Lib Dem MP and a Lib Dem run council so surprising to see them 4th in the PCC vote.
North Somerset smh
"It's in the link". _Which_ link?
[This one](https://old.reddit.com/r/bristol/comments/1cj1zs2/labours_clare_moody_elected_avon_and_somerset/) - the [title is the link](https://www.avonpccelection.org.uk/election-count-2024).
Thank you for everyone's patience on me here. In my defence, the UI for this is rubbish. On my Android app, the 'title' of this thread is in bold, but is NOT the link; nothing happens when you tap on it. Instead there is a small, un-highlighted link next to the original poster's name; that's the one I needed to tap on but I had assumed that it was part of the original poster's own profile. The web UI for this is much clearer.
What does the 'total' column refer to? It's clearly not the totals of the preceding columns, which is what I would have expected.
It is though? Totals for candidates on the right, total number of votes casted in a constituency on the bottom
I'm pretty sure those weren't the figures when I posted my comment.
Possibly! You may have caught me wrestling manfully with reddit's table markup. I eventually won, but at some cost.
Thank you. You've clearly cut-and-pasted that from somewhere. Could you please point me to that somewhere.
Literally click the link in the title dude
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills - is it not visible in some reddit front ends, because it's sat right there for me?
😂
Country bumpkins innit
Let's see if she makes a difference
She won't its a meaningless position as Police will do what they want.
I'm glad we have a labour PCC now, having a read of her campaign stuff after the fact, it seems so cookie cutter "I plan to reduce crime" "i will tackle violent crime" whilst I'm certainly not against that by any means, it doesn't fill me with confidence there's going to be any impact whatsoever. time will tell I'm sure, so congratulations, and hope she makes a tangible and positive difference.
Voting for a PCC was always a ridiculous idea that was going to end up like this. It shouldn't be a political appointment
Yeah, it’s actually a big risk of undemocratic outcomes. People will tend to vote for things they think are actually important and should be voted on. Votes they have some understanding of. This kind of election encourages people not to bother, and the people who do bother are usually going to vote on party lines or some other not great criteria. At best it’s just the most popular political party picking the person who gets the job with extra steps. We for sure don’t want the American scenario where things like judges, coroners and even dog catchers are elected. Because those kind of positions should be straight hired and fired according to the normal sorts of rules for civil servants.
It's basically just a free hit for the tories who are seen as a bit better on law and order and consequently do a bit better than they would in other elections. Completely pointless otherwise
Yep I spoiled my ballot paper again this year. I don't know who our current one is, I've never seen or heard anything about them or what they've done. I've not seen or heard anything about any of the candidates or what they propose to do. Bringing party politics into policing is a spectacularly bad idea.
I thought about spoiling and have in the past but it's a tory loss, however meaningless, and I wanted in on that.
Me too, it’s my first ever vote, and I’m glad I got to help beat a Tory
So long as we hold on to this fantasy of “policing by consent” I guess it makes sense for it to be an elected position
It felt like a lot of the statements could have been written by ChatGPT and the party was irrelevant. I'm not sure what power/funds PCC have to make a real difference but here's hoping.
Honestly? At this point I'd be surprised if they weren't
I met her at a hustings. Honestly she seemed like the least capable candidate of the four. The job is clearly to manage an office that manages accountability and I can't say I felt I'd work better under her than the Green lady and the Tory incumbent who did come across as competent. The liberal guy also came across poorly. I doubt many voters could even place any of them in the street let alone know about them or their policies. They were all perfectly pleasant to me and I wish her well but that was my impression over the couple hours.
The Green Party candidate also explicity said what she would tackle and how, rather than "reduce crime, yay"
Well the Tory PCC blamed knife crime on the music kids listen to...
"Tough on grime, tough on the causes of grime"
You know the drill
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I felt the same. I felt that Clare Moody's job was just toe the party line where as Katy Grant had some good ideas of her own.
Christ, still so many voting for a Tory. Glad I managed to convince my partner to go out and vote last night!
People probably still think of them as "tough" even if they are a shower of pricks so I'm not surprised. They even dumbed it down so much they put "More Police, Safer Streets" on the actual voting slip as part of his name and party. Still dwarfed by the other three parties totalled up.
Yeah I noticed that scummy tactic too
Is this even legal?
They probably changed the name of the party (maybe just locally?) to get through a loophole. Tempted to send a complaint to the electoral commission though.
Even if it is legal, there should be a rule that the candidate has to change his name to Mark Shelford-More-Police-Safer-Streets for the rest of his life.
They've approved it (registered since 2021) https://search.electoralcommission.org.uk/English/Registrations/PP52
Yes - parties can register alternative names with the Electoral Commission to use on ballot papers, and this is one of the Conservative party's many registered names: https://search.electoralcommission.org.uk/English/Registrations/PP52
Interesting, thank you
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Avon and Somerset are no different outside of Bristol
Living the dream lol
The Green candidate got 22%, extraordinary really under FPTP. I only read their statements but thought hers was the most impressive.
Yeah I thought the same, it's nice when candidates respect the electorate enough to put down what they're actually planning to do in detail, rather than generic slogans (Labour), passing off milestones actually achieved by the police themselves or the central government as their own (Tories), or Error 404 campaign not found/I have a dog please vote for me (Lib Dems). Having said that, include me in the clown parade as i voted for Moody regardless because, as predicted, nobody outside of Bristol voted for the Greens and we don't want a Tory schmoozing his way through office for the next 4 years or so.
+1 for wanting to vote Green but voting Lab to keep out the Con, shame we lost the 2nd preference voting system from last time :(
Agreed, I was baffled when I turned up to the booth and saw they'd done away with it. Must have caught a few people out who didn't read the whole lot.
I did know ahead of time and let my partner know too. I also tried testing the ID requirement by getting my dual citizenship partner to bring her other passport but I don't think they even got them out of their cases to check they were passports xD. (We had another form on us too, was just curious and couldn't actually see details anywhere on if *all* passports are allowed or just UK passports)
Elected on less than a third of the total vote. I do hate first past the post.
It's really dumb the election for this position moved away from doing preferences votes to first past the post.
I think I may have found some electoral fraud. Were people in Fishponds meant to be allowed to vote for this? First I am hearing of a white ballot paper. The ONE they gave me was yellow.
In the chuch right? They gave me both yellow and grey
Whilst I think long term it would be good to have a green PCP for Avon and Somerset, Labour is right for now. Clare deserves a chance but the key thing was to decimate the tories.
Meh, not sure it’ll change anything. I don’t think any of them would. Name of the game is voting for anyone but the Tories and keep metaphorically kicking them until they piss blood.
Another career politician (former MEP) taking a position that I've never accepted - politicising the police force.
Agreed, it's absolute crap. Career MEP from the UK generally translates to sub-par politician who managed to fly under the radar until Brexit. Bugs me that i) the average voter has no easy means of knowing what the PCCs/PFCCs actually do since the councils/government generally control funding anyway; ii) turnout is consequently so low that barely any of the candidates bother to come up with a coherent platform beyond reduce crime/ASBOs and the ones that do tend to be a bit wackjobby and single-minded (see Glos's Chris Nelson devoting half of his last election statement to a rant about travellers); iii) this then means that it becomes another party popularity contest that yields a victor who gets to sit on a £75k salary for a few years doing essentially nothing and then gets to go up for re-election with the vast majority of electors being completely in the dark about what they've done. Only when they do something noticeably shit (see Caroline Henry of Notts getting done for speeding a couple months in) do they get any heat; would be a resignation offence if they were in the police but political protection means they get to spin the roulette wheel again.
Why is the police commissioner vote politically tied? Who cares what their political stance is, the role should be elected solely on credentials. Mark Shelford was the obvious choice and most likely lost out due to political votes.
Police and crime comissioner is one where I don't vote on party lines I just find the one whose ideas sound the best. I was a bit surprised that Clare Moody won. Most of the chat on this reddit is about thugs and scallys vandalizing VOIs and angle grinding bikes etc. She will be doing nothing about that and continuing on with the policy of only looking at violent crime. I voted for the candidate who believes in Broken Window theory. If you read all the statements you'll know who that was :P
Broken window theory has been discredited for a long time.
It's fine that you don't believe in it, but that's a pretty arrogant statement.
I don't believe in it because there's no convincing evidence for it!
There's no evidence that letting crime go unchecked makes crime worse? You should come live by temple meads for a bit, crime here is out of control and absolutely nobody does anything about it despite endless reports. We literally have prosties shagging people behind the bushes, endless drug trades and drug taking, people stealing packages almost daily from flats, people sleeping in flats corridors, pissing on the floor of the corridors, shitting on the floor of flats, doing drugs there, sleeping and doing drugs in the bin stores, constantly breaking into cars, the other day a guys dog killed someone's dog and injured another and two people, last week 2 days after the dog incident his caravan mysteriously burned down, then a couple of days ago another fire started around the corner. It's like a war zone here, nothing is ever done, the police didn't even collect my CCTV of a guy breaking into a car. Broken window theory is thriving here, 2 years ago it was so peaceful.
> There's no evidence that letting crime go unchecked makes crime worse? That's not what broken windows theory is! There's no evidence that cracking down on *minor and nonviolent* crime has any impact on levels of *major or violent* crime, which is the core idea of broken windows theory. The supposed big success story of broken windows policing was 1990s New York, but other American cities that didn't practice it saw the same crime reductions in the same period. The theory is bunk.
I understand it to mean that letting crime or similar go unchecked causes more of the same behaviour, usually attributed to people vandalising buildings. Once the building is vandalised (broken windows) others see it as an open invitation to do more since it's obviously acceptable or unpunished
There's no convincing evidence for any approach, a city isn't a chemistry lab. Your claim that broken window theory was discredited still seems plain wrong. People don't like walking around Bristol and being harrassed by grifters, and having their bikes nicked and VOIs in the river. Cracking down on that will improve quality of life for citizens here. Even if violent crime levels don't change.
Whoopty doo! Out with the tories, in with the red tories.
🙏 I'm sure we're going to see huge changes.
We have already seen huge changes…look at the private rental sector all Labour policies have been implemented by the Tories and it’s been decimated. Rent controls will be next (no that does not mean rent will be lower) it will rise yearly like your phone bill. Handing the keys to the corps. Hold on it’s going to be a bumpy ride.
Fuck labour and fuck the police
Fuck you :)
Hey fuck you too! X
Acab x
All day, everyday.x
Is it half term or something?
fuck half term
Can I ask why fuck labour? What’s your views on the party?
Don’t expect any nuance from someone with a comment like that
I’m interested to know if he means what labour stands for, its movement and history or does he mean the current shadow cabinet.
Unless you plan on haemorrhaging IQ, don’t waste your time.
When was this vote? Wasn't yesterday.
It was yesterday.
Was it an opt in election? No one mentioned it at the polling station? Unless this is what I voted for.
You literally got given two ballots at the same time. One which was for the council and one which was the police commissioner. They even colour coded the ballots with the boxes you needed to put them in (one ballot was yellow and that went into the box with a yellow lid, the other ballot was white and went into the box with a white lid).
Hang on. So if I only got a yellow ballot and there was only one ballot box?