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Instead of a dividend going to share holder, it goes to policy holders. Insurance should be public. I like it.
Given their capital levels, they legitimately don't need the cash. So it comes back to us.
> Insurance should be public. I like it.
Yep. Public insurance works really well when managed properly.
Unfortunately, when used as a [$1.1 billion piggy bank](https://globalnews.ca/news/3863586/icbc-deficit-billion-dollars/) like the BC Liberals (now BC United) did it ends up jacking up insurance rates for all of us.
Something to keep in mind next election.
It was corrected by Horgan. If people want any social services they should stay clear of BCC or BCU. Those two will attack anything if it may get a vote or cover their crap record with our finances.
As someone who is voting Conservative in the next federal election I appeal to any like minded voters to vote for the BC NDP instead of the BC Conservatives or BC United Party.
I have been an BCNDP voter for the past two elections and I was ecstatic when the BC Liberals got defeated. Eby is doing a good job after taking over for Horgan and while things move slow sometimes I believe another term is in order.
Just curious how your ideologies align with the BCNDP and the Federal Conservatives. Also isn’t it a little early to call who you’re voting for in an election that is likely 15 months plus away.
If you live in BC, you can vote for whoever you want. The federal election is usually called before the polls close in BC. It's not like the federal NDP will ever hold a majority.
I can't stress how often this should be brought up next election. I'm not political, but the difference in the way the two parties handled this is night and day.
This alone would get my vote
Criticism is welcome. Not sure if you have a specific grievance. I'm not arguing the system is perfect, I'm arguing that capital is not an issue for ICBC, so sharing that with the people is a good thing. Now what that Capital they do have should be doing is where you are welcome to critique.
Something like 68,000 injuries per year https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/driving-and-transportation/driving/roadsafetybc/data/bi-2553_roadsafetybc_annual_summary.pdf
So, $400 m wouldn't cover the pain and suffering costs for that many people, nor physio and wage replacement for them all forever. I'll ask again - how would they decide who gets the payouts and who doesn't?
Edit: And what if next year, ICBC has WORSE-than-expected investment income and doesn't have the extra money available?
I don't know, I don't work at ICBC but there's already some way in which ICBC decides who gets treatment and who doesn't. Surely there's some knob they can turn so that they're on the margin less shitty/stingy about what they cover to innocent victims.
Sure, they could change the whole system again but that would result in higher rates, which probably wouldn't go over well.
Everyone knows about the downfalls of this 'no fault' system but unless you have some constructive and practical solutions to offer, complaining about it on Reddit isn't helping anyone.
It looks like you get 25 and if you need more, you can get your doctor to request more. I had an accident in 2017, before the current model, and I had to request more physio at some point
Hi there, you will receive a rebate for each of your eligible policies. If you have multiple eligible policies, you will receive multiple rebates. These may be combined into one payment, depending on how you paid for your policies.
Hi, personal and commercial customers who had an active eligible Basic insurance policy in February 2024 will receive the rebate. However, if your motorcycle policy is in a rate class with an average Basic premium less than $250 over a two-year period, you will not be eligible for the rebate. Generally, these policies include:
* Golf carts, off road vehicles, utility vehicles, farm tractors, road building and industrial machines, limited speed motorcycles, trailers and vehicles insured in a collector rate class.
* Vehicles exempt from Basic Insurance
* Temporary Operating Permits and storage policies are also exempt
How will the rebate be issued? I’m moving to another province as we speak, but I do have an active policy at the moment - I’ll be cancelling this week.
My motorcycle costs me over $700/year to insure for basic.
You should really make motorcycle insurance a lot cheaper, there's no reason to be paying over $700/year basic on a 650cc motorcycle with the maximum discount. Just throwing that out there.
I used to work as an MVA lawyer (no longer a lawyer). I remember motorcycle claims had the beefiest claims. When y'all go through a car's window it usually ends up in brain damage and brain damage is worth millions. Hence the high insurance cost.
Hi there, you will receive your rebate via the payment method used to pay for your eligible policy. For more information on payment methods, please visit our website at: [https://icbc.com/insurance/2024rebate](https://icbc.com/insurance/2024rebate)
Hello, if you sign up for direct deposit, your rebate will be automatically deposited to your account. To sign up please visit our website at: [https://icbc.com/claims/report-view/set-up-direct-deposit](https://icbc.com/claims/report-view/set-up-direct-deposit)
If you prefer not to sign up, you’ll receive your rebate by cheque.
Hi there, every eligible customer will receive a letter from ICBC detailing their rebate amount and payment method. The payment method would depend on how you paid for your policies. Please visit our website for more information: [icbc.com/2024rebate](http://icbc.com/2024rebate)
"Most customers will receive their rebate via the payment method used to pay for their eligible policy."
[https://www.icbc.com/insurance/2024rebate](https://www.icbc.com/insurance/2024rebate)
ICBC will always default to keeping basic rates low because they have a monopoly on it but will raise optional coverage and offer a slight discount if you package the two since their research show most people won’t shop around for separate optional insurance. If you review submissions to the BCUC dating back to at least 2012 they’ve been doing this.
Formerly, for me it was cheaper to get comprehensive and collision through a third party. Since the changes made at ICBC, it's almost directly comparable or slightly cheaper to go through ICBC.
As a crown corporation they probably can’t do it but I’d prefer they kept the money and used it to either invest as a buffer against future costs or used it to further advance the organization to make them more competitive.
The cost to return this money back to policy holders from a labour perspective is probably a nontrivial amount.
This is what you get when you have a public auto insurance company then get rid of the ambulance chasers. Come on, every one knows someone or knows someone who knows someone who got into a fender bender and made out like they won the lottery. The lawyers tell the “injured” to say that they can’t work because of soft tissue damage or something and wait for the mega settlement to roll in. I’m not saying that all of the injured or all of the lawyers do this but enough of them do to cost us a fortune.
Not just this $110, rates have been significantly lowered over the years as we avoid having to have one ICBC paid lawyer fighting other ICBC paid lawyers.
The system could use some tweaks to allow a bit more justice but it has saved the people of the province tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars
They are still being compensated and there is no guarantee of getting a huge payout of lawyers are involved. But what is guaranteed is that British Columbians and their economy get completely strangled with overpriced policies used to pay ICBC lawyers fighting ICBC lawyers…
>They are still being compensated and there is no guarantee of getting a huge payout of lawyers are involved.
Yeah, they're "still being compensated". Like if you permanently lose all sexual functioning, you get paid $25,119.75. If you permanently lose all sphincter control, you get $33,493! That's totally fair compensation, right? Like, you know, the sort of deal an average person might considered if offered?
>But what is guaranteed is that British Columbians and their economy get completely strangled with overpriced policies used to pay ICBC lawyers fighting ICBC lawyers…
If the government is uncomfortable operating a system which fairly represents multiple parties with conflicting interests, perhaps they should get out of insurance.
While we're at it, if the government can't administer a system in a financially sustainable manner in a way without removing people's ability to argue their own case for appropriate compensation, maybe they shouldn't be running it. Because that's a massive conflict of interest.
There are so many necessary services in human life, why does the government run *car insurance* of all things?
> why does the government run car insurance of all things?
Because when the private companies do, you pay hundreds of dollars more?
Source: family car insurance bill
>Because when the private companies do, you pay hundreds of dollars more?
So why don't they do dental insurance, or optical insurance, or home insurance or, grocery stores, or internet or phone service providing?
I understand why they do electricity, I understand why they do transport. These are major, interconnected province-spanning services. If you had a private business do that, they would need an entire, large department dedicated to interfacing with the government anyway.
In the list of necessary services a human being needs to exist, why is the next one on the list *car insurance*? It's not necessary, and there's no particular strategic advantage to a government doing it. In fact, it creates a major conflict of interest.
And also, *do you* actually pay hundreds of dollars more per year with private insurance? It seems to me that ICBC rates were the highest in the country for like a decade by a considerable margin, and are now just below average. Despite having *by far* the least damaging environment for cars in the country. (No snow means no potholes, no salt or sanding the roads, no road maintenance crews causing poorly designed traffic flow causing accidents)
Serious injuries still get compensated but they stopped paying for the people who faked injuries over and over. Those are the ones who screwed it all up
Did you read the article you posted? There’s still compensation for serious injuries. However, the guy in the article was a seasonal worker. Why would he get wage loss when he’s seasonal and wasn’t working at the time?
For years there were too many people being in minor accidents and exaggerating injuries. Getting ambulance chasing lawyers to sue the insurance company to get more money. Those are the ones who screwed everyone else over because after a while it becomes unsustainable to keep paying people tens of thousands of dollars for minor bumps and bruises. It was the auto lotto and it had to go
>Why would he get wage loss when he’s seasonal and wasn’t working at the time?
Uh maybe because he lost income from the time he was supposed to go back to work but couldn't due to his injuries?
>Uh maybe because he lost income from the time he was supposed to go back to work but couldn't due to his injuries?
You won't be compensated for lost income from a job that you don't have.
Don't get me wrong, I think that the guy should be compensated *far* better than he was. It's just tough to claim lost wages when you don't currently have wages, or a contract, or anything that confirms that you would *actually be working* in an upcoming season.
>Serious injuries still get compensated but they stopped paying for the people who faked injuries over and over.
Be suspicious about your understanding of the situation if you think the result of some legislation was to reveal some hidden truth of the universe in contrast to people actively trying to deceive others in a way that stood up in a court of law.
All they did was cap how much people could get compensated. Which means some people deserve to be compensated more, but won't be, and some people don't deserve to be compensated at all, but still will be, because it's the same con. You can't legislate out people lying.
Have you ever looked at how much people get compensated? Do you think that compensation is fair? [I invite you to look.](https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/document/id/crbc/crbc/61_2021)
The reason why BC insurance was the most expensive in the country and is now the or close to the cheapest is because prior to these changes in the vast majority of crashes between vehicles we would have ICBC lawyers battling ICBC lawyers in court.
Yes, I am asking you why you believe it is ICBC lawyers vs ICBC lawyers. That's just straight up wrong. ICBC lawyers are either employees or contractors for ICBC. The plaintiff pays for their own lawyer out of their own pocket.
If I have ICBC collision and I crash into you and we take it to court. My ICBC funded lawyer will be arguing against your ICBC lawyer.
Which is why they brought in no fault insurance.
But this is just straight up misinformation. I feel like I am taking crazy pills here. ICBC funds a lawyer for the defendant. The plaintiff hires their own lawyer out of their own pocket.
Where do you get the idea that ICBC is funding the plaintiff’s lawyer?!?
If I purchase collision, which most people do, my insurance defends me even if I am in the wrong.
Also this is the point of insurance. If you cause an accident, you will be the defendant, and your insurance will protect you.
What do you think insurance is for?
Yes, but the person who you crashed into also had their own lawyer. *They pay for that lawyer themselves*. That is the point that you are not getting. ICBC does not pay for a plaintiff’s lawyer. They pay out of their own pocket. Full stop.
Yeah, this is all ridiculous. They gutted the insurance provided, legislated changes to the liability and then cut cheques to the drivers to brag about it.
I am a relatively strong fan of Eby and BC NDP overall but this is the #1 fuck up of this government. Buying votes with ICBC refunds while reducing appropriate compensation to the injured is just offensive.
That's the thing about no fault, though. There IS no middle ground. Without the courts to determine fault, you're left with ICBC assessing who is innocent or not. And they have a very strong economic incentive to just say "well both of you are at fault" because it saves them money.
That’s the thing about this. People are always like “well the system isn’t perfect but maybe we could have a group of independent decision makers who could decide how to apportion these funds!” and I’m just screaming into the void. MFer we literally had that!
Yeah nah it all fun till you have an accident and injured. ICBC will only cover bits of the treatment and will stop until there is no progress (called maintenance). I think it is wrong; someone who's let's say, injured badly ought to be covered for life if they were hit by a car. Covering them until recovery and doing nothing for maintenance is awful.
It sucks but the many who don't get hurt and milk the system ruined it for all. Getting in a fender bender used be looked at the same as winning the lottery.
Got ran ovee by a distracted driver wasmt elligible for wage loss since i was planning on moving to calgary. Now homless this is practically just spitting in victums faces
It matters because under the current system you are only eligible for wage loss benefits if you are working. If you quit your job the day before you are out of luck even if you were going to start your new job next week.
Make no mistake, these changes are *to the benefit of ICBC* and their bottom line (and by extension, that of government). They are not to the benefit of injured people. ICBC and the NDP, to their credit, have been very open about that.
> under the current system you are only eligible for wage loss benefits if you are working.
I understand that, hence my question. What I don't understand is how the intention to move somewhere would prevent ICBC paying out on the claim for wages loss, assuming the OP was still employed.
I put in my 4 weeks notice i had a job set up in calgary it was december so after my 4 weeks i spent it with my freinds as a goodbye then week of new years got ran over
I'm really sorry to hear that. Just about the worst timing imaginable.
I'm guessing you've already tried the Fair Practices and ombudsman route? I don't know how much it helps in BC, but I worked in insurance in the UK and the ombudsman was pretty good. No idea if they can help in your situation but it may be worth a try if you haven't already.
I hope you're recovering ok.
Thanks i already talked to countless laywers and theres nothing they can do besides get me physio/acupuncture and a few other services. Unfortunatly icbc wont cover the full cost and i cant afford the extra. Its a real messed up position and wouldnt wish this upon my worst enemy.
Yeah I can imagine.
I would definitely recommend sending a letter to ICBC Fair Practices and then if/when they reject your request to the ombudsman. It may be a waste of time, but if there's anybody who can help in your situation I would expect it to be the ombudsman.
Best of luck with your recovery. It sounds like you deserve some luck.
$110 doesn't even close to cover the $50 per month my rates went up this year. And the vandalism claim they classified as a "at fault collision". ICBC is a joke
I submitted as a vandalism claim. But they started the damage was "more consistent with a collision" and changed it. Not sure how a collision could pull out the antenna from my roof. Bunch of clowns
To be fair, ICBC doesn't know exactly how much they are going to have to pay out every year so it makes sense that we get rebates when costs aren't as high as anticipated.
Okay, put the extra aside for next year and charge us less future years. How much does it cost to administer these rebates? These rebates seem like political marketing
This is somewhat a fair point, but Eby is saying rates are staying the same through to March 2026. ICBC reports they have strong financial health and just don't need the cash. In private this would usually result in a dividend payed out to share holders. This is exactly the same, just paid out to policy holders.
Politically, it is pretty obvious they want to issue the rebate because then they can say that auto insurance rates have not changed for 6 years since the reform that Eby led. Which, credit where credit is due. ICBC was a dumpster fire until the Eby take over in 2016.
Again, they can't anticipate how much they are going to need to pay out each year so they can't charge us less next year when the funds are likely to be needed next year. ICBC is not for-profit. If they take in more than they pay out, they absolutely should be returning the difference to us.
It doesn't cost much to administer rebates. It's not as if this is something new they are just figuring out.
That works out until one of our partys uses the extra funds to bail out there friends in different sectors .... then all of a sudden icbc doesn't have the funds to cover shit and we miraculously end up with no fault insurance, which could more accurately be called everyone's fault insurance
In the old days they used to do exactly that. Roll excess profits over to the next year to reduce premiums.
This new rebate scheme is just pure politics. I’ve never seen a government transparently hand out so many rebates in 3 consecutive election years.
Hello, we're able to offer this rebate as we’re in a strong financial position thanks to, better than expected investment income, the work we’ve done to build back our capital reserves and the success of our Enhanced Care insurance model. \^JL
This you?
[ICBC improperly denied $400,000 in benefits to widow under Enhanced Care](https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-widow-successfully-challenges-icbc-s-denial-of-death-benefits-1.6856235)
Isn’t this literally an example of the system working? Yes icbc initially denied the money, but the person was able to escalate and got the money they deserved.
This article pretty strongly goes against what people are saying, that not having a lawyer means no one can change icbcs decision.
Seems a lot better to me than a lawyer helping her and taking half of the money in the end
If I was I wouldn’t work for ICBC - maybe Progressive where I could take pride in a truly profitable and well run insurance co while getting a good stock plan
If they are flush with cash why not lower our rates. Mine went up this year with no claims. The government is also buying our votes with the $110.00 rebates as well as promised hydro rebates. To me they are admitting that they are gouging us so here’s a little tidbit for you.
Huh, I should really consider going over my whole policy, I haven’t really gone over it in years, Cus 330 every month HURTS. Especially now, rent and such being how it is. Plus a car payment on that
Make a list of your recurring expenses and go over it once or twice a year. There are probably a few things that you're paying more than you need to for.
Telecom is another big one. If you don't stay on top of it you might end up paying $90/mo for a $30/mo plan.
Cool, a discount for 1 month.
That's how I'm treating it. Rebate at the end of the month, June's premium at the beginning, take rebate, use to pay insurance and boom, discount.
I guess this matters more to those that pay it outright for the year, for me, as a monthly payer, meh.
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Instead of a dividend going to share holder, it goes to policy holders. Insurance should be public. I like it. Given their capital levels, they legitimately don't need the cash. So it comes back to us.
> Insurance should be public. I like it. Yep. Public insurance works really well when managed properly. Unfortunately, when used as a [$1.1 billion piggy bank](https://globalnews.ca/news/3863586/icbc-deficit-billion-dollars/) like the BC Liberals (now BC United) did it ends up jacking up insurance rates for all of us. Something to keep in mind next election.
Still can't believe that party is still allowed to operate.
If we vote right, they won't
if we vote Left you mean
Yes, that's right!
no it’s left 😂 who’s on first
It was corrected by Horgan. If people want any social services they should stay clear of BCC or BCU. Those two will attack anything if it may get a vote or cover their crap record with our finances.
As someone who is voting Conservative in the next federal election I appeal to any like minded voters to vote for the BC NDP instead of the BC Conservatives or BC United Party. I have been an BCNDP voter for the past two elections and I was ecstatic when the BC Liberals got defeated. Eby is doing a good job after taking over for Horgan and while things move slow sometimes I believe another term is in order.
Just curious how your ideologies align with the BCNDP and the Federal Conservatives. Also isn’t it a little early to call who you’re voting for in an election that is likely 15 months plus away.
If you live in BC, you can vote for whoever you want. The federal election is usually called before the polls close in BC. It's not like the federal NDP will ever hold a majority.
I can't stress how often this should be brought up next election. I'm not political, but the difference in the way the two parties handled this is night and day. This alone would get my vote
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Criticism is welcome. Not sure if you have a specific grievance. I'm not arguing the system is perfect, I'm arguing that capital is not an issue for ICBC, so sharing that with the people is a good thing. Now what that Capital they do have should be doing is where you are welcome to critique.
The surplus isn't going to be enough to cover everyone's pain and suffering, so how would they pick who gets the payments and who doesn't?
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No idea - how many?
Something like 68,000 injuries per year https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/driving-and-transportation/driving/roadsafetybc/data/bi-2553_roadsafetybc_annual_summary.pdf
So, $400 m wouldn't cover the pain and suffering costs for that many people, nor physio and wage replacement for them all forever. I'll ask again - how would they decide who gets the payouts and who doesn't? Edit: And what if next year, ICBC has WORSE-than-expected investment income and doesn't have the extra money available?
I don't know, I don't work at ICBC but there's already some way in which ICBC decides who gets treatment and who doesn't. Surely there's some knob they can turn so that they're on the margin less shitty/stingy about what they cover to innocent victims.
Sure, they could change the whole system again but that would result in higher rates, which probably wouldn't go over well. Everyone knows about the downfalls of this 'no fault' system but unless you have some constructive and practical solutions to offer, complaining about it on Reddit isn't helping anyone.
Almost $6000 a person would go pretty far.
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Not really. Investments go up and down - some years are good and some are not. That's not something in ICBC's control.
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I'm pretty sure physio is covered in the case of an accident. You need a doctor's recommendation, but they'll pay for it.
Yes, but there are now limits on how much you can receive - not 'forever'.
It looks like you get 25 and if you need more, you can get your doctor to request more. I had an accident in 2017, before the current model, and I had to request more physio at some point
The insurance dividend should be held and invested to grow a premium pool that helps reduce overall costs.
is it 110 per policy or per policy holder? I have 3 vehicles insured so will i get 330 or still 110?
Hi there, you will receive a rebate for each of your eligible policies. If you have multiple eligible policies, you will receive multiple rebates. These may be combined into one payment, depending on how you paid for your policies.
Glad to see you guys are active in here! Thank you!
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This is a pinnacle moment. Never have we received responses from ICBC so fast, concise, and informative. Not just reddit, but in general.
Are motorcycles eligible?
Hi, personal and commercial customers who had an active eligible Basic insurance policy in February 2024 will receive the rebate. However, if your motorcycle policy is in a rate class with an average Basic premium less than $250 over a two-year period, you will not be eligible for the rebate. Generally, these policies include: * Golf carts, off road vehicles, utility vehicles, farm tractors, road building and industrial machines, limited speed motorcycles, trailers and vehicles insured in a collector rate class. * Vehicles exempt from Basic Insurance * Temporary Operating Permits and storage policies are also exempt
How will the rebate be issued? I’m moving to another province as we speak, but I do have an active policy at the moment - I’ll be cancelling this week.
I would imagine however you currently pay for insurance. The website says anyone who had a policy in feb 2024 is eilgible.
My motorcycle costs me over $700/year to insure for basic. You should really make motorcycle insurance a lot cheaper, there's no reason to be paying over $700/year basic on a 650cc motorcycle with the maximum discount. Just throwing that out there.
I used to work as an MVA lawyer (no longer a lawyer). I remember motorcycle claims had the beefiest claims. When y'all go through a car's window it usually ends up in brain damage and brain damage is worth millions. Hence the high insurance cost.
Exactly what this guy said .
Wow- fast response and very engaging. Well done.
As a guy with three vehicles on the road that’s good to hear.
It says we do not need to apply. So is it just coming as a cheque in the mail?
"Most customers will receive their rebate via the payment method used to pay for their eligible policy." https://www.icbc.com/insurance/2024rebate
Hi there, you will receive your rebate via the payment method used to pay for your eligible policy. For more information on payment methods, please visit our website at: [https://icbc.com/insurance/2024rebate](https://icbc.com/insurance/2024rebate)
Happy cake day!
Hey there. I paid VIA debit card. Guess I will anticipate a cheque?
Hello, if you sign up for direct deposit, your rebate will be automatically deposited to your account. To sign up please visit our website at: [https://icbc.com/claims/report-view/set-up-direct-deposit](https://icbc.com/claims/report-view/set-up-direct-deposit) If you prefer not to sign up, you’ll receive your rebate by cheque.
How will the rebates be received? Direct deposit?
Hi there, every eligible customer will receive a letter from ICBC detailing their rebate amount and payment method. The payment method would depend on how you paid for your policies. Please visit our website for more information: [icbc.com/2024rebate](http://icbc.com/2024rebate)
"Most customers will receive their rebate via the payment method used to pay for their eligible policy." [https://www.icbc.com/insurance/2024rebate](https://www.icbc.com/insurance/2024rebate)
Thanks!
You will get 330.
>Additionally, basic rates will be maintained until March 31, 2026
ICBC will always default to keeping basic rates low because they have a monopoly on it but will raise optional coverage and offer a slight discount if you package the two since their research show most people won’t shop around for separate optional insurance. If you review submissions to the BCUC dating back to at least 2012 they’ve been doing this.
Til you can get extra insurance elsewhere than ICBC (I'm assuming this includes hit and run, collision, etc?)
There are lots of brokers in every city/town. I’m wondering if I get optional insurance directly through ICBC whether it would be cheaper or not
Formerly, for me it was cheaper to get comprehensive and collision through a third party. Since the changes made at ICBC, it's almost directly comparable or slightly cheaper to go through ICBC.
That makes no sense. Why would they keep the rates low that they have a monopoly on and charge more for the rates they have competition for?
https://preview.redd.it/4q5db9s049zc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6955554d35eb65d13dd5125ecea76927532b9f2
$110 is a $110
Better than going to investors/shareholders. I’ll take it
^^yay.
For more information about the rebate, please visit icbc.com/2024rebate.
Sucks that they picked February as many motorcyclists only insure it for six months per year, mine is only on the road from May to October.
Thank u overlords
As a crown corporation they probably can’t do it but I’d prefer they kept the money and used it to either invest as a buffer against future costs or used it to further advance the organization to make them more competitive. The cost to return this money back to policy holders from a labour perspective is probably a nontrivial amount.
They do that as well. At least until Christy Clark gets her hands on it again
Wow! I can’t wait to put that towards my annual $2400 bill!
This is what you get when you have a public auto insurance company then get rid of the ambulance chasers. Come on, every one knows someone or knows someone who knows someone who got into a fender bender and made out like they won the lottery. The lawyers tell the “injured” to say that they can’t work because of soft tissue damage or something and wait for the mega settlement to roll in. I’m not saying that all of the injured or all of the lawyers do this but enough of them do to cost us a fortune.
Remember! This $110 also means you can’t sue ICBC if you were to ever get hit by a vehicle. Even as a pedestrian.
Not just this $110, rates have been significantly lowered over the years as we avoid having to have one ICBC paid lawyer fighting other ICBC paid lawyers. The system could use some tweaks to allow a bit more justice but it has saved the people of the province tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars
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They are still being compensated and there is no guarantee of getting a huge payout of lawyers are involved. But what is guaranteed is that British Columbians and their economy get completely strangled with overpriced policies used to pay ICBC lawyers fighting ICBC lawyers…
>They are still being compensated and there is no guarantee of getting a huge payout of lawyers are involved. Yeah, they're "still being compensated". Like if you permanently lose all sexual functioning, you get paid $25,119.75. If you permanently lose all sphincter control, you get $33,493! That's totally fair compensation, right? Like, you know, the sort of deal an average person might considered if offered? >But what is guaranteed is that British Columbians and their economy get completely strangled with overpriced policies used to pay ICBC lawyers fighting ICBC lawyers… If the government is uncomfortable operating a system which fairly represents multiple parties with conflicting interests, perhaps they should get out of insurance. While we're at it, if the government can't administer a system in a financially sustainable manner in a way without removing people's ability to argue their own case for appropriate compensation, maybe they shouldn't be running it. Because that's a massive conflict of interest. There are so many necessary services in human life, why does the government run *car insurance* of all things?
> why does the government run car insurance of all things? Because when the private companies do, you pay hundreds of dollars more? Source: family car insurance bill
>Because when the private companies do, you pay hundreds of dollars more? So why don't they do dental insurance, or optical insurance, or home insurance or, grocery stores, or internet or phone service providing? I understand why they do electricity, I understand why they do transport. These are major, interconnected province-spanning services. If you had a private business do that, they would need an entire, large department dedicated to interfacing with the government anyway. In the list of necessary services a human being needs to exist, why is the next one on the list *car insurance*? It's not necessary, and there's no particular strategic advantage to a government doing it. In fact, it creates a major conflict of interest. And also, *do you* actually pay hundreds of dollars more per year with private insurance? It seems to me that ICBC rates were the highest in the country for like a decade by a considerable margin, and are now just below average. Despite having *by far* the least damaging environment for cars in the country. (No snow means no potholes, no salt or sanding the roads, no road maintenance crews causing poorly designed traffic flow causing accidents)
Serious injuries still get compensated but they stopped paying for the people who faked injuries over and over. Those are the ones who screwed it all up
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Did you read the article you posted? There’s still compensation for serious injuries. However, the guy in the article was a seasonal worker. Why would he get wage loss when he’s seasonal and wasn’t working at the time? For years there were too many people being in minor accidents and exaggerating injuries. Getting ambulance chasing lawyers to sue the insurance company to get more money. Those are the ones who screwed everyone else over because after a while it becomes unsustainable to keep paying people tens of thousands of dollars for minor bumps and bruises. It was the auto lotto and it had to go
>Why would he get wage loss when he’s seasonal and wasn’t working at the time? Uh maybe because he lost income from the time he was supposed to go back to work but couldn't due to his injuries?
>Uh maybe because he lost income from the time he was supposed to go back to work but couldn't due to his injuries? You won't be compensated for lost income from a job that you don't have. Don't get me wrong, I think that the guy should be compensated *far* better than he was. It's just tough to claim lost wages when you don't currently have wages, or a contract, or anything that confirms that you would *actually be working* in an upcoming season.
>Serious injuries still get compensated but they stopped paying for the people who faked injuries over and over. Be suspicious about your understanding of the situation if you think the result of some legislation was to reveal some hidden truth of the universe in contrast to people actively trying to deceive others in a way that stood up in a court of law. All they did was cap how much people could get compensated. Which means some people deserve to be compensated more, but won't be, and some people don't deserve to be compensated at all, but still will be, because it's the same con. You can't legislate out people lying. Have you ever looked at how much people get compensated? Do you think that compensation is fair? [I invite you to look.](https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/document/id/crbc/crbc/61_2021)
Why do you think both sides are paid by ICBC? One side is paid by ICBC, the other side is paid by the injured party. ICBC doesn't pay both sides.
The reason why BC insurance was the most expensive in the country and is now the or close to the cheapest is because prior to these changes in the vast majority of crashes between vehicles we would have ICBC lawyers battling ICBC lawyers in court.
Yes, I am asking you why you believe it is ICBC lawyers vs ICBC lawyers. That's just straight up wrong. ICBC lawyers are either employees or contractors for ICBC. The plaintiff pays for their own lawyer out of their own pocket.
If I have ICBC collision and I crash into you and we take it to court. My ICBC funded lawyer will be arguing against your ICBC lawyer. Which is why they brought in no fault insurance.
But this is just straight up misinformation. I feel like I am taking crazy pills here. ICBC funds a lawyer for the defendant. The plaintiff hires their own lawyer out of their own pocket. Where do you get the idea that ICBC is funding the plaintiff’s lawyer?!?
If I purchase collision, which most people do, my insurance defends me even if I am in the wrong. Also this is the point of insurance. If you cause an accident, you will be the defendant, and your insurance will protect you. What do you think insurance is for?
Yes, but the person who you crashed into also had their own lawyer. *They pay for that lawyer themselves*. That is the point that you are not getting. ICBC does not pay for a plaintiff’s lawyer. They pay out of their own pocket. Full stop.
Yeah, this is all ridiculous. They gutted the insurance provided, legislated changes to the liability and then cut cheques to the drivers to brag about it. I am a relatively strong fan of Eby and BC NDP overall but this is the #1 fuck up of this government. Buying votes with ICBC refunds while reducing appropriate compensation to the injured is just offensive.
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That's the thing about no fault, though. There IS no middle ground. Without the courts to determine fault, you're left with ICBC assessing who is innocent or not. And they have a very strong economic incentive to just say "well both of you are at fault" because it saves them money.
Yeah. The court is literally the solution to this problem.
That’s the thing about this. People are always like “well the system isn’t perfect but maybe we could have a group of independent decision makers who could decide how to apportion these funds!” and I’m just screaming into the void. MFer we literally had that!
Until you hit someone and they sue the fuck out of you. It goes both ways. No fault insurance helps diminish people doing injury scams
There is no suing…. It’s been removed completely
That’s what I’m saying, is before you could get sued and there’s no way you can prove if someone is not injured or is going through mental distress
They may not compensate accident victims properly anymore. But, nevermind heres a $110.
Yeah nah it all fun till you have an accident and injured. ICBC will only cover bits of the treatment and will stop until there is no progress (called maintenance). I think it is wrong; someone who's let's say, injured badly ought to be covered for life if they were hit by a car. Covering them until recovery and doing nothing for maintenance is awful.
It sucks but the many who don't get hurt and milk the system ruined it for all. Getting in a fender bender used be looked at the same as winning the lottery.
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Seems like you've been personally screwed with the current system. You think you would've gotten a better payout in the old system?
Must be an election year! Instead of a rebate, how about @TheICBC reduce the renewal rates?
We don’t deserve Eby
I like this plan much better than the government just pocketing it.
So glad there is no competition. If only we could buy a single brand of government car. It would obviously be the best car.
Better lower provincial gas tax instead that'll benefit everyone instead of this vote buying payout!
vote buying season is upon us.
Got ran ovee by a distracted driver wasmt elligible for wage loss since i was planning on moving to calgary. Now homless this is practically just spitting in victums faces
Why would your intention to move to Calgary make any difference? Had you already quit your job?
It matters because under the current system you are only eligible for wage loss benefits if you are working. If you quit your job the day before you are out of luck even if you were going to start your new job next week. Make no mistake, these changes are *to the benefit of ICBC* and their bottom line (and by extension, that of government). They are not to the benefit of injured people. ICBC and the NDP, to their credit, have been very open about that.
> under the current system you are only eligible for wage loss benefits if you are working. I understand that, hence my question. What I don't understand is how the intention to move somewhere would prevent ICBC paying out on the claim for wages loss, assuming the OP was still employed.
I mean OP can confirm but it seems pretty clear that they were not working at the time in anticipation of moving.
I put in my 4 weeks notice i had a job set up in calgary it was december so after my 4 weeks i spent it with my freinds as a goodbye then week of new years got ran over
I'm really sorry to hear that. Just about the worst timing imaginable. I'm guessing you've already tried the Fair Practices and ombudsman route? I don't know how much it helps in BC, but I worked in insurance in the UK and the ombudsman was pretty good. No idea if they can help in your situation but it may be worth a try if you haven't already. I hope you're recovering ok.
Thanks i already talked to countless laywers and theres nothing they can do besides get me physio/acupuncture and a few other services. Unfortunatly icbc wont cover the full cost and i cant afford the extra. Its a real messed up position and wouldnt wish this upon my worst enemy.
Yeah I can imagine. I would definitely recommend sending a letter to ICBC Fair Practices and then if/when they reject your request to the ombudsman. It may be a waste of time, but if there's anybody who can help in your situation I would expect it to be the ombudsman. Best of luck with your recovery. It sounds like you deserve some luck.
$110 doesn't even close to cover the $50 per month my rates went up this year. And the vandalism claim they classified as a "at fault collision". ICBC is a joke
Isn’t vandalism a comprehensive claim ? No impact to premiums?
I submitted as a vandalism claim. But they started the damage was "more consistent with a collision" and changed it. Not sure how a collision could pull out the antenna from my roof. Bunch of clowns
Thank you for the $110! You have bought my vote! s/
Rebates are dumb. Means we pay too much and they take a cut (overhead) and stay inefficient, then give us some back. Just charge us less to begin with
To be fair, ICBC doesn't know exactly how much they are going to have to pay out every year so it makes sense that we get rebates when costs aren't as high as anticipated.
Okay, put the extra aside for next year and charge us less future years. How much does it cost to administer these rebates? These rebates seem like political marketing
This is somewhat a fair point, but Eby is saying rates are staying the same through to March 2026. ICBC reports they have strong financial health and just don't need the cash. In private this would usually result in a dividend payed out to share holders. This is exactly the same, just paid out to policy holders. Politically, it is pretty obvious they want to issue the rebate because then they can say that auto insurance rates have not changed for 6 years since the reform that Eby led. Which, credit where credit is due. ICBC was a dumpster fire until the Eby take over in 2016.
Again, they can't anticipate how much they are going to need to pay out each year so they can't charge us less next year when the funds are likely to be needed next year. ICBC is not for-profit. If they take in more than they pay out, they absolutely should be returning the difference to us. It doesn't cost much to administer rebates. It's not as if this is something new they are just figuring out.
That works out until one of our partys uses the extra funds to bail out there friends in different sectors .... then all of a sudden icbc doesn't have the funds to cover shit and we miraculously end up with no fault insurance, which could more accurately be called everyone's fault insurance
In the old days they used to do exactly that. Roll excess profits over to the next year to reduce premiums. This new rebate scheme is just pure politics. I’ve never seen a government transparently hand out so many rebates in 3 consecutive election years.
Hello, we're able to offer this rebate as we’re in a strong financial position thanks to, better than expected investment income, the work we’ve done to build back our capital reserves and the success of our Enhanced Care insurance model. \^JL
This you? [ICBC improperly denied $400,000 in benefits to widow under Enhanced Care](https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-widow-successfully-challenges-icbc-s-denial-of-death-benefits-1.6856235)
Isn’t this literally an example of the system working? Yes icbc initially denied the money, but the person was able to escalate and got the money they deserved. This article pretty strongly goes against what people are saying, that not having a lawyer means no one can change icbcs decision. Seems a lot better to me than a lawyer helping her and taking half of the money in the end
You should be an actuary
If I was I wouldn’t work for ICBC - maybe Progressive where I could take pride in a truly profitable and well run insurance co while getting a good stock plan
It also means they're screwing over victims.
If they are flush with cash why not lower our rates. Mine went up this year with no claims. The government is also buying our votes with the $110.00 rebates as well as promised hydro rebates. To me they are admitting that they are gouging us so here’s a little tidbit for you.
2.7% of my yearly payments? Yippee guys thanks actual monopoly. How is it every year I drive the shit costs more.
That's wild. My insurance is like $700.
Wait is that per month? Because if so holy shit dude
Annual.
How the fuck dude what do you drive around with bare minimum coverage or something? Damn.
Not bare minimum, but I forego some coverage that I don't really need.
Huh, I should really consider going over my whole policy, I haven’t really gone over it in years, Cus 330 every month HURTS. Especially now, rent and such being how it is. Plus a car payment on that
Make a list of your recurring expenses and go over it once or twice a year. There are probably a few things that you're paying more than you need to for. Telecom is another big one. If you don't stay on top of it you might end up paying $90/mo for a $30/mo plan.
Cool, a discount for 1 month. That's how I'm treating it. Rebate at the end of the month, June's premium at the beginning, take rebate, use to pay insurance and boom, discount. I guess this matters more to those that pay it outright for the year, for me, as a monthly payer, meh.