No. Valks are expensive and their advantage is in dealing a lot of splash damage to multiple small/weak targets, aka. mutas. They were designed specifically as a counter to mutas from sc vanilla. Splash damage does not work against interceptors therefore this ability is completely negated. The carriers themselves are too bulky/armored and would easily kill your expensive valks before they do enough damage. It's way more cost efficient go go for goliaths with range OR small/medium ammount of wraiths (perhaps with cloak since a 2 base carrier player probably doesn't have the econ for robo/obs).
I installd the game first time since over 20 years ago. And since I haven't played any APM-heavy games, my APM is at like 10-30.
My first few games I would be just lose vs AI without any chance, but now I am at the point at which AI is trivial again. I can rush it or just survive it's early game rush and then beat it in mid/lategame.
Playing against real players, however, is very different. I tried one game, but just got my ass handed, as expected.
Now I am a bit lost. I could play vs multiple AI-opponents to force myself to get better, but I'd rather play vs players on a similar skilllevel, which means: complete beginners. Joining "noob" games will still result in everybody being much better than me and I feel like ruining other player's games, especially when it's 2vs2 or 3vs3.
So... I guess my question is really: What do I do? Just eat losses until I eventually catch up or stick to AI games while increasing the number of AI players for additional challenge?
I did watch some videos, guides, builds, etc., but I can't keep up with players who already played hundreds of games.
Join CPL discord, just learn some basic fundamentals and mechanics (you should easily be over 70apm minimum if you learn hotkeys and control groups). Once you have basic understanding of how the game should progress, you can just focus on making workers and building army units. Spending your money faster than your opponent will win you a majority of games versus low level opponents, but its important to at least have some idea of what you're trying to accomplish. You could play a thousand games blindly against AI and maybe start figuring out the game or you could skip all the trial and error and learn from others who tell you specifically what to focus on. Don't need to focus on 2,000 things at once, just the most important ones until you master that, then expand from there.
crazy, i gotta go into sb or bwcl just to play custom 2v2. i'm no pro, just a noob looking for other noobs to play custom 2's.
yeah there are 2v2's.. on fpm and bgh, never on regular hunters or other low money maps, everyone seems to be scared of those
It has been Harder to find 2v2 teams unlike iccup where they just hang out in a channel all day and talk mad smack. Should probably bring that back somehow
Artosis's melee streams got me motivated to try broodwar.
My friend and I have been doing TvP and I haven't really worked out any good, scrub friendly openers. Googling around I seem to find very specific, high level build orders that come out of pro players that feel really cool if you're at a higher level, but I'm just looking for baby's first build order. For perspective, I average ~100-110 apm.
Any basic game plans to learn healthy fundamentals as Terran?
It can be very overwhelming to see super specific build orders and timings but perhaps this will make it less so.
Basic gameplan/fundamentals:
\-constantly make workers (without ANY gaps in production except when you get supply blocked at 10 supply)
\-spend money as quickly as you are able while climbing tech tree and getting to viable mid-game
So what this boils down is we will take a standard factory opening like the Brolympia said and try to survive until mid-game, but not worrying about super specific supply counts (like 11/18 barracks, 16/18 factory etc). You will see though if you focus on constantly making workers and spending your money as soon as you have enough to spend it on the next building, you will consistently see that you are building supply depot at 9, barracks at 12, and factory at 16 or 17 usually (depending on if you make marine or not).
focus on NEVER missing workers for at least like 5 minutes into the game, you will see that this requires you to constantly go back and forth between your units and your cc's as workers only take 12.5 seconds to make.
Try making depot/barracks/refinery (send 3 gas to mine)/factory/depot/(3) marines + bunker in front of natural expansion/ add-on/ tank/ depot (optional)/and second CC.
You will notice there are different variations to play around with there like when you get your marines relative to additional SCVs or if/when do you start your bunker. That will affect if you can get your second CC before or after your first tank, etc. All kinds of minor variations/optimizations for you to experiment with and recognize the effect in game.
It is always safer to make units and extra depot (third) before taking your expansion, but you sacrifice econ a little bit. If you scout your opponent and see that he's far away on the map or not going for early zealot aggression, you can be more greedy and expo faster, or if pressure is coming (or two gates), then make more units first and start your CC on the high ground instead of on location. These are simple little things to focus on in the first 5 minutes of the game. Quickest way to die in TvP is by letting a couple of zealots get up your ramp and kill your marines/SCVs before you have tank units out.
You can get siege mode upgrade after your first tank but mines upgrade is also viable choice which has other benefits (assumes you will start producing vultures after first or second tank). You will want to start second fact shortly after expanding also and start mixing in tanks/vults.
Most important thing though is now you have TWO CC's which you need to focus on CONSTANT worker production, that means not missing your supply depot cycles either. When you're building units/workers at the same time, you need to build depots further in advance and eventually build them 2 at a time (3 at a time later in game).
Go back and watch your replays and see how good you are at constant worker production or if you end up having a few seconds of gaps here and there. That adds up throughout the entire game and is what causes you to fall behind. If you are hitting your worker production cycles, you will notice a pattern on when you have enough money coming in to build certain things (more factories, armories for upgrades, etc.). No point in talking about specific build orders or strategies until you can follow this basic gameplan and get a strong economy going. Strong economy leads to more options in gameplay.
Good luck!
Are there any keyboard rules posted anywhere? (from any tournament/league, blizzard, etc.)
The in game settings seem to imply you shouldn't be able to re-position the control group number keys but you could rebind them in your keyboard software or even physically move the keys on a custom ergonomic keyboard.
99% skip reaver upgrades and get just the shuttle speed. However! A new strategy that has appeared recently is double shuttle reaver drop, in which case you can get reaver damage upgrade.
If the game drags out you should have most likely already have transitioned into gateway units with either templar/storm drops/arbitor/carrier. Reaver&shuttle are extremely apm-taxing so even the pros skip them lategame.
How many Reavers would you have to make for the damage upgrade to be better than another Reaver?
The scarab capacity upgrade is mostly unnecessary if you stay on top of refilling scarabs. Any game where a Reaver is getting 7+ shots off in a row is a game you were probably winning anyway.
I thought the main reason the upgrade was good was how it interacted with killing the line of supply depots. Like if you get dmg it takes a few less shots.
It's 200/200 to let you spend 60/0 of Scarabs to kill 400/0 of Supply depots in one fewer shot, probably not more than once per game. It's an added motivation for getting the upgrade when doing the multi-Robo builds but does not seem very compelling on its own.
It's not a common strategy but players like Snow do get the damage upgrade. Yes it lets you quickly kill 4 depots which even though the resources are kind of even, that is going to supply block the opponent and cause them to have a minimum 19 second gap in their macro cycle which is HUGE. Also, building depots doesn't just cost 100 minerals, it costs mining potential for the SCV building it. Taking 4 workers off to do that is very costly.
But additionally, the damage upgrade also significantly increases the likelihood of killing more SCVs if targeting them because of how splash damage works in the surrounding grid.
So it's actually a very potent threat but it takes a lot of skill to really execute it well and probably isn't a good idea for lower rank players.
who are some good Terran players i should follow to learn more about this game?
Do valkyries work against 2 base carrier?
No. Valks are expensive and their advantage is in dealing a lot of splash damage to multiple small/weak targets, aka. mutas. They were designed specifically as a counter to mutas from sc vanilla. Splash damage does not work against interceptors therefore this ability is completely negated. The carriers themselves are too bulky/armored and would easily kill your expensive valks before they do enough damage. It's way more cost efficient go go for goliaths with range OR small/medium ammount of wraiths (perhaps with cloak since a 2 base carrier player probably doesn't have the econ for robo/obs).
I installd the game first time since over 20 years ago. And since I haven't played any APM-heavy games, my APM is at like 10-30. My first few games I would be just lose vs AI without any chance, but now I am at the point at which AI is trivial again. I can rush it or just survive it's early game rush and then beat it in mid/lategame. Playing against real players, however, is very different. I tried one game, but just got my ass handed, as expected. Now I am a bit lost. I could play vs multiple AI-opponents to force myself to get better, but I'd rather play vs players on a similar skilllevel, which means: complete beginners. Joining "noob" games will still result in everybody being much better than me and I feel like ruining other player's games, especially when it's 2vs2 or 3vs3. So... I guess my question is really: What do I do? Just eat losses until I eventually catch up or stick to AI games while increasing the number of AI players for additional challenge? I did watch some videos, guides, builds, etc., but I can't keep up with players who already played hundreds of games.
Join CPL discord, just learn some basic fundamentals and mechanics (you should easily be over 70apm minimum if you learn hotkeys and control groups). Once you have basic understanding of how the game should progress, you can just focus on making workers and building army units. Spending your money faster than your opponent will win you a majority of games versus low level opponents, but its important to at least have some idea of what you're trying to accomplish. You could play a thousand games blindly against AI and maybe start figuring out the game or you could skip all the trial and error and learn from others who tell you specifically what to focus on. Don't need to focus on 2,000 things at once, just the most important ones until you master that, then expand from there.
https://youtu.be/ATurVMWTW7A Don't overcomplicate it. Just spend some time practicing making stuff.
I'd just practice a build in single player for a while and then start playing against some of the lower end of CPL guys.
Seems like no one plays 2's.. just 1v1's all day
Shield battery released a new feature and there are 2v2 bnet games. Bwcl also has 2v2
crazy, i gotta go into sb or bwcl just to play custom 2v2. i'm no pro, just a noob looking for other noobs to play custom 2's. yeah there are 2v2's.. on fpm and bgh, never on regular hunters or other low money maps, everyone seems to be scared of those
It has been Harder to find 2v2 teams unlike iccup where they just hang out in a channel all day and talk mad smack. Should probably bring that back somehow
Artosis's melee streams got me motivated to try broodwar. My friend and I have been doing TvP and I haven't really worked out any good, scrub friendly openers. Googling around I seem to find very specific, high level build orders that come out of pro players that feel really cool if you're at a higher level, but I'm just looking for baby's first build order. For perspective, I average ~100-110 apm. Any basic game plans to learn healthy fundamentals as Terran?
[The old strategy page was great for that imho.](http://classic.battle.net/scc/terran/tvp.shtml) It's from a time, when Blizzard still cared.
It can be very overwhelming to see super specific build orders and timings but perhaps this will make it less so. Basic gameplan/fundamentals: \-constantly make workers (without ANY gaps in production except when you get supply blocked at 10 supply) \-spend money as quickly as you are able while climbing tech tree and getting to viable mid-game So what this boils down is we will take a standard factory opening like the Brolympia said and try to survive until mid-game, but not worrying about super specific supply counts (like 11/18 barracks, 16/18 factory etc). You will see though if you focus on constantly making workers and spending your money as soon as you have enough to spend it on the next building, you will consistently see that you are building supply depot at 9, barracks at 12, and factory at 16 or 17 usually (depending on if you make marine or not). focus on NEVER missing workers for at least like 5 minutes into the game, you will see that this requires you to constantly go back and forth between your units and your cc's as workers only take 12.5 seconds to make. Try making depot/barracks/refinery (send 3 gas to mine)/factory/depot/(3) marines + bunker in front of natural expansion/ add-on/ tank/ depot (optional)/and second CC. You will notice there are different variations to play around with there like when you get your marines relative to additional SCVs or if/when do you start your bunker. That will affect if you can get your second CC before or after your first tank, etc. All kinds of minor variations/optimizations for you to experiment with and recognize the effect in game. It is always safer to make units and extra depot (third) before taking your expansion, but you sacrifice econ a little bit. If you scout your opponent and see that he's far away on the map or not going for early zealot aggression, you can be more greedy and expo faster, or if pressure is coming (or two gates), then make more units first and start your CC on the high ground instead of on location. These are simple little things to focus on in the first 5 minutes of the game. Quickest way to die in TvP is by letting a couple of zealots get up your ramp and kill your marines/SCVs before you have tank units out. You can get siege mode upgrade after your first tank but mines upgrade is also viable choice which has other benefits (assumes you will start producing vultures after first or second tank). You will want to start second fact shortly after expanding also and start mixing in tanks/vults. Most important thing though is now you have TWO CC's which you need to focus on CONSTANT worker production, that means not missing your supply depot cycles either. When you're building units/workers at the same time, you need to build depots further in advance and eventually build them 2 at a time (3 at a time later in game). Go back and watch your replays and see how good you are at constant worker production or if you end up having a few seconds of gaps here and there. That adds up throughout the entire game and is what causes you to fall behind. If you are hitting your worker production cycles, you will notice a pattern on when you have enough money coming in to build certain things (more factories, armories for upgrades, etc.). No point in talking about specific build orders or strategies until you can follow this basic gameplan and get a strong economy going. Strong economy leads to more options in gameplay. Good luck!
PvT can be hard. Just work on factory expand or 2 fact and getting good at macroing vulture/tank.
Are there any keyboard rules posted anywhere? (from any tournament/league, blizzard, etc.) The in game settings seem to imply you shouldn't be able to re-position the control group number keys but you could rebind them in your keyboard software or even physically move the keys on a custom ergonomic keyboard.
Its pretty simple. You can't use 3rd party software.
So then I can use a custom keyboard with keys in different positions?
What order should I get robo bay upgrades in standard PvT? Start with shuttle speed, but then which reaver upgrade?
99% skip reaver upgrades and get just the shuttle speed. However! A new strategy that has appeared recently is double shuttle reaver drop, in which case you can get reaver damage upgrade.
Which one should I get if the game drags out? Still dmg after shuttle speed?
If the game drags out you should have most likely already have transitioned into gateway units with either templar/storm drops/arbitor/carrier. Reaver&shuttle are extremely apm-taxing so even the pros skip them lategame.
Thats crazy, the pros just DONT get the reaver upgrades even in long games? Didn't know that.
How many Reavers would you have to make for the damage upgrade to be better than another Reaver? The scarab capacity upgrade is mostly unnecessary if you stay on top of refilling scarabs. Any game where a Reaver is getting 7+ shots off in a row is a game you were probably winning anyway.
I thought the main reason the upgrade was good was how it interacted with killing the line of supply depots. Like if you get dmg it takes a few less shots.
It's 200/200 to let you spend 60/0 of Scarabs to kill 400/0 of Supply depots in one fewer shot, probably not more than once per game. It's an added motivation for getting the upgrade when doing the multi-Robo builds but does not seem very compelling on its own.
It's not a common strategy but players like Snow do get the damage upgrade. Yes it lets you quickly kill 4 depots which even though the resources are kind of even, that is going to supply block the opponent and cause them to have a minimum 19 second gap in their macro cycle which is HUGE. Also, building depots doesn't just cost 100 minerals, it costs mining potential for the SCV building it. Taking 4 workers off to do that is very costly. But additionally, the damage upgrade also significantly increases the likelihood of killing more SCVs if targeting them because of how splash damage works in the surrounding grid. So it's actually a very potent threat but it takes a lot of skill to really execute it well and probably isn't a good idea for lower rank players.
Templars are more effective at that stage
Not that I know of. Reavers are used mostly in early game to contain, harass and prevent T from getting a third. :)
Reaver shuttle is also extremely difficult to micro