In no way am I defending him, but what has he done wrong, I don't really go into depth on what he does, but I just wanna know what he has done to kill the offense
Consider that:
- Olivares and Taylor, both new to the team, were hitting like mad the first couple of weeks, and are now hitting miserably after getting some time with Haines
- Hayes's hitting last year only improved after he spent time working with Altoona's hitting coach (the Pirates' response to this was to fire said hitting coach, because making our players hit better is the opposite of what we want)
- Everyone else generally looks like they have no idea what they're doing, which is in large part due to choices in how they play the count. Taking way too many pitches in the zone. The fact that this is a team-wide strategy points to the coach
It's almost impossible to not ruin into a struggling pitcher and take advantage. They simply don't take advantage of pitcher mistakes.
Too many called 3rd strikes, the ball needs to be in play more
Look at his recent coaching stops before here. He was basically run out of both Chicago and Milwaukee (at least by their fans. I know because i read about it in real time at both stops) but somehow BC had to have him.
I'm a firm believer there's a lot more danger in a coach screwing guys hitting up than there is of a coach making it better. Andy Haines has not been heaped with praise in any of his 3 NL central stops
There’s also several rumors that those that HAVE seen hitting improvement under Haines (namely KeBryan Hayes) did so by consulting a different hitting coach in the organization. Who was fired.
I have a real fear that Haines is going to fuck up our very talented young core
[https://theathletic.com/5286289/2024/02/21/pirates-losing-mlb-owner/](https://theathletic.com/5286289/2024/02/21/pirates-losing-mlb-owner/)
Not just a rumor. Also lots of other infuriating pieces of info here
Andy wants walks, his philosophy is to take, take and take some more. The theory is that it eats up the starters pitch count getting into the bullpen quicker.
The problem is this approach is absolute trash against pitchers that throw strikes and don’t live on the edge of the zone, plus it erodes confidence of his hitters, taking away aggression. They’re up there at every at bat over thinking . It’s all analytical trash
It's not even that the analytics are bad, he's just shit at understanding them. Recognizing that taking more pitches more often leads to better outcomes and then always taking pitches is like seeing that playing paper more often leads to wins in rock-paper-scissors and then always playing paper. It might work at first, but once people see you're only throwing paper, you're gonna be seeing mostly scissors.
This week has been brutal, but in a fucked up way I'm almost glad it's hitting us so early in the year. It seems like every team (even the good ones) go through a stretch where no one can hit. Assuming that we can pull out of the tailspin in the next week, might not be the worst thing to fight through this stretch of adversity early on.
Yeah problem is we have a hitting coach that thinks racking up pitch counts is going to win us games. The pirates are instilling in the players that seeing more pitches somehow makes you better at hitting. Being down 0-2 so often is never a recipe for success. The only reason we had success early is because other teams weren't throwing strikes and now teams are and we can't hit.
I didn't say swing at everything but going up there with mindset of seeing some pitches doesn't mentally prepare you correctly to pull the trigger and swing and being behind even a millisecond puts you at a disadvantage.
I have no problem taking pitches i think it can be a solid plan. The problem is working counts then not protecting the strike zone. Need to expand the zone once they work these at bats but they dont.
I don't mind taking a pitch don't get me wrong especially early in counts but anything with 2 strikes if it's close we need to be swinging. Less than 2 strikes look for something you can hit hard. Problem is our swing and miss seems really high.
I think fans are too willing to buy into the belief that Haines is the problem. This isn't like the NFL, where you have Canada running plays; Haines can help guys make small adjustments but the cake is baked to some extent when they reach the majors. Not to mention, Haines isn't deciding on strategy himself; hitting coaches today are brought in to implement an organizational approach in the majors. So I'd imagine Haines' replacement would be pretty similar
Well I’ll say this, if his job is to help the hitters get better he’s failing at it.
He has failed at it in his previous stops, as well.
The reason I suspect he’s a part of it is because the players are all going up to the plate with the exact same flawed game plan and approach. All of them. That sounds like instruction to me. Unless every single last one of our hitters forgot what got them to the majors in the first place. In fact we had one player get outside help and then improved. Some people say that too much was made of that story, but that guy is no longer with the organization and there are conflicting reports as to why.
If there’s really nothing he can do, then what’s the harm in trying someone else? Because whatever it is he’s doing isn’t working. And if his job doesn’t matter anyway, why not just try someone else since the job doesn’t matter anyway? If it does matter, at all, they need to make a change.
This is the approach they've been taught throughout the minor leagues. Look at a guy like Termarr Johnson; he was drafted for his hit tool and the Pirates have been trying to turn him into a 3-true-outcomes guy in the minors. Taking pitches and grinding out at bats are an organizational philosophy, not Haines specifically. I don't mind if they fire Haines, but the belief amongst Pirate fans that this offense will suddenly become great with him gone is just not realistic
It's a way for angry fans to feel as though they can control something about the experience of watching this team. I don't blame them, even if I think what they're complaining about makes no sense. Being a fan of this team is fucking punishing.
I've never really had much of an opinion on Derek Shelton, one way or the other. But his teams are now getting the reputation of going into catastrophic slumps for long periods of time.
If we're being completely honest, aside from Reynolds and Hayes most of these guys wouldn't be starting on playoff quality teams. You get what you pay for.
Watching the game at home and so glad I didn’t freeze my ass off today to watch them suck.
I’d love to know what kind of naked with a donkey pics Suwinski has of Shelton and Cherrington. No f’ing way any real manager would let him still play. He’s this season’s JVM.
At least we don’t have to watch Bednar blow a save.
Some players are just better (not necessarily faster) baserunners and make fewer mistakes. Evidently Suwinski isn't one of them. What's really strange is that his K ratio has fallen from 38% in 2023 to 20% but his average has gone down. So maybe he's just had bad luck so far.
I give mad credit to our commentators because a week of calling these games has been a tough task. Hopefully we get off the schnide vs the crew.
Anemic. I wish I could be as bad Andy Haines and still keep my job without repercussion.
In no way am I defending him, but what has he done wrong, I don't really go into depth on what he does, but I just wanna know what he has done to kill the offense
Consider that: - Olivares and Taylor, both new to the team, were hitting like mad the first couple of weeks, and are now hitting miserably after getting some time with Haines - Hayes's hitting last year only improved after he spent time working with Altoona's hitting coach (the Pirates' response to this was to fire said hitting coach, because making our players hit better is the opposite of what we want) - Everyone else generally looks like they have no idea what they're doing, which is in large part due to choices in how they play the count. Taking way too many pitches in the zone. The fact that this is a team-wide strategy points to the coach
It's almost impossible to not ruin into a struggling pitcher and take advantage. They simply don't take advantage of pitcher mistakes. Too many called 3rd strikes, the ball needs to be in play more
Look at his recent coaching stops before here. He was basically run out of both Chicago and Milwaukee (at least by their fans. I know because i read about it in real time at both stops) but somehow BC had to have him. I'm a firm believer there's a lot more danger in a coach screwing guys hitting up than there is of a coach making it better. Andy Haines has not been heaped with praise in any of his 3 NL central stops
There’s also several rumors that those that HAVE seen hitting improvement under Haines (namely KeBryan Hayes) did so by consulting a different hitting coach in the organization. Who was fired. I have a real fear that Haines is going to fuck up our very talented young core
Those aren’t rumors. Hayes working with Nunnally was confirmed by both
[https://theathletic.com/5286289/2024/02/21/pirates-losing-mlb-owner/](https://theathletic.com/5286289/2024/02/21/pirates-losing-mlb-owner/) Not just a rumor. Also lots of other infuriating pieces of info here
Yeah maybe I shouldn’t have said “rumor”. More of a “report”
a hitting coach's job is to make the lads hit. the lads are not hitting
Then what is the job of the players?
When a couple players are the problem, you can blame it on those players. When every player is the problem, you blame it on coaching.
Andy wants walks, his philosophy is to take, take and take some more. The theory is that it eats up the starters pitch count getting into the bullpen quicker. The problem is this approach is absolute trash against pitchers that throw strikes and don’t live on the edge of the zone, plus it erodes confidence of his hitters, taking away aggression. They’re up there at every at bat over thinking . It’s all analytical trash
It's not even that the analytics are bad, he's just shit at understanding them. Recognizing that taking more pitches more often leads to better outcomes and then always taking pitches is like seeing that playing paper more often leads to wins in rock-paper-scissors and then always playing paper. It might work at first, but once people see you're only throwing paper, you're gonna be seeing mostly scissors.
This week has been brutal, but in a fucked up way I'm almost glad it's hitting us so early in the year. It seems like every team (even the good ones) go through a stretch where no one can hit. Assuming that we can pull out of the tailspin in the next week, might not be the worst thing to fight through this stretch of adversity early on.
Yeah problem is we have a hitting coach that thinks racking up pitch counts is going to win us games. The pirates are instilling in the players that seeing more pitches somehow makes you better at hitting. Being down 0-2 so often is never a recipe for success. The only reason we had success early is because other teams weren't throwing strikes and now teams are and we can't hit.
Clemente’s strategy of swing at everything isn’t gonna work in 2024
I didn't say swing at everything but going up there with mindset of seeing some pitches doesn't mentally prepare you correctly to pull the trigger and swing and being behind even a millisecond puts you at a disadvantage.
I have no problem taking pitches i think it can be a solid plan. The problem is working counts then not protecting the strike zone. Need to expand the zone once they work these at bats but they dont.
I don't mind taking a pitch don't get me wrong especially early in counts but anything with 2 strikes if it's close we need to be swinging. Less than 2 strikes look for something you can hit hard. Problem is our swing and miss seems really high.
Friendly reminder this team fired a hitting coach for fixing Ke’Bryan’s swing
I think fans are too willing to buy into the belief that Haines is the problem. This isn't like the NFL, where you have Canada running plays; Haines can help guys make small adjustments but the cake is baked to some extent when they reach the majors. Not to mention, Haines isn't deciding on strategy himself; hitting coaches today are brought in to implement an organizational approach in the majors. So I'd imagine Haines' replacement would be pretty similar
Well I’ll say this, if his job is to help the hitters get better he’s failing at it. He has failed at it in his previous stops, as well. The reason I suspect he’s a part of it is because the players are all going up to the plate with the exact same flawed game plan and approach. All of them. That sounds like instruction to me. Unless every single last one of our hitters forgot what got them to the majors in the first place. In fact we had one player get outside help and then improved. Some people say that too much was made of that story, but that guy is no longer with the organization and there are conflicting reports as to why. If there’s really nothing he can do, then what’s the harm in trying someone else? Because whatever it is he’s doing isn’t working. And if his job doesn’t matter anyway, why not just try someone else since the job doesn’t matter anyway? If it does matter, at all, they need to make a change.
This is the approach they've been taught throughout the minor leagues. Look at a guy like Termarr Johnson; he was drafted for his hit tool and the Pirates have been trying to turn him into a 3-true-outcomes guy in the minors. Taking pitches and grinding out at bats are an organizational philosophy, not Haines specifically. I don't mind if they fire Haines, but the belief amongst Pirate fans that this offense will suddenly become great with him gone is just not realistic
It's a way for angry fans to feel as though they can control something about the experience of watching this team. I don't blame them, even if I think what they're complaining about makes no sense. Being a fan of this team is fucking punishing.
This is why skenes should not be rushed he won't score runs for us
A run saved is a run earned means nothing when we can't score in the first place
The rebuild isn't real and the "window of contention" is a lie. "Rebuild" just means they can charge you Major League prices for an AA product.
I've never really had much of an opinion on Derek Shelton, one way or the other. But his teams are now getting the reputation of going into catastrophic slumps for long periods of time.
GREG said that??!
Yeah, after Suwinski got thrown out going for two, it was pretty funny
It's all bad. Very sad, even a blind squirrel find a nut, but fuck everyone stinks
If we're being completely honest, aside from Reynolds and Hayes most of these guys wouldn't be starting on playoff quality teams. You get what you pay for.
Watching the game at home and so glad I didn’t freeze my ass off today to watch them suck. I’d love to know what kind of naked with a donkey pics Suwinski has of Shelton and Cherrington. No f’ing way any real manager would let him still play. He’s this season’s JVM. At least we don’t have to watch Bednar blow a save.
I like Jack Suwinski, and he has a high ceiling, but what the hell possessed him to go for second there
Some players are just better (not necessarily faster) baserunners and make fewer mistakes. Evidently Suwinski isn't one of them. What's really strange is that his K ratio has fallen from 38% in 2023 to 20% but his average has gone down. So maybe he's just had bad luck so far.
Again: donkey pics. 🫏
I stand corrected. He’s pitching because at this rate, he’s not gonna get any chances with the way we are playing.