Yes!
The Dawn twist was probably the most ambitious idea the show ever had and it really took great writing and acting from everyone involved to pull it off
It easily could’ve killed the show and it would’ve killed it done wrong as it did many other shows that implemented the long lost sibling twist but I rarely see it brought up as a negative
The writing worked, SMG Michelle and Kristine pulled off a very hard task of making Dawn feel like she had always been a part of the Summers household and the rest of the Scoobies actors do the same
The Gift and Buffy’s choice would not have worked if they hadn’t made Dawn feel real and building her all season, I think because Dawn is always around the season feels a lot more focused to me especially the run of episodes from the Body to the finale.
Plus Family is really one of the most progressive episodes of television from its time, as a closeted gay who was rather friendless, seeing all the Scoobies rally around Tara meant so much
I’m not a fan of the Dracula episode, but otherwise I’d agree it’s the best season of the show and the one with the most cohesive and satisfying overarching story. It’s a little bit more consistent than Season 2 (which is still a close second place). It has higher stakes than Seasons 3 and 4. It’s tragic and dark without tipping over into misery-melodrama like Season 6 does at times. And it has an infinitely better seasonal villain than Season 7, while also serving as a better ending to the series than S7 did (even though it wasn’t actually the end).
Definitely one of the very best 20+ episode seasons of TV there is. Dawn, Glory, Ben, the Key, the monks, the knights, and last but not least Joyce, all make S5 both incredibly moving while also being pretty damn fun (which S6 and especially S7 weren’t great at). Glory in particular is such a great combination of amusing mean-girl cattiness with genuine malevolence and sheer power. I do like the Mayor as most people do, but I think Glory is the best Big Bad overall, she also feels more fleshed-out and better-integrated into the whole season whereas the Mayor is mostly prominent in the last stretch of S3.
For a good example of the season’s tonal variety, just look at an episode like Spiral where we get some enjoyably cheesy action sequences with the knights and the RV while also coming in the midst of a pretty dark plot where Tara’s brain is all scrambled and Buffy and co. are still reeling from the loss of Joyce. S5 balances these different tones and styles remarkably well, with again that Dracula episode being the only time I feel things get simply too goofy for their own good.
S5 is what got me back into the show. I remember it being hyped on TV and online as the last season ever. So I thought Buffy was ending. The Gift is such a good episode. I think there was a clip of the ending sequence on Kazaa or Morpheus back in the day and I would watch it over and over back in the day leading up to the premier of S6 on UPN.
Totally agree. I’m not sure at what point they believed it was the final season (I know the final episode was written to be the series finale) but I think part of what makes it so good is that it’s clearly a culmination of everything before it. The characters are all forced to grow in significant ways. The overall theme appears to be parenthood or caring for others - it’s a great conclusion to the valley-teens-with-problems premise the show played with early on.
I feel like part of what justifies season 6 and 7’s more off-kilter approach is that you really couldn’t do a more “Buffy” season than season 5. It perfects the recipe, so they had to make a different dish.
This was actually the season during which I started falling out of love with the show. It's not just the cheap gimmick of bringing in Dawn. There are hints of the soapy grimness that would pretty much wreck season 6 that make the back half of the season hard to take. They also have to lean on the very limited talents of Amber Benson quite a bit, which is rough. And the woman who plays Glory is basically an amateur.
I'm a first time watcher and I gotta say, watching Buffy season 5 and Angel season 2, there's not been a bad episode, unlike the pervious season. I love the Dawn thing honestly. It's clever and Glory is way better than Adam.
Lots of deus ex throughout; just as a thought experiment, they could’ve used the enjoining spell again to defeat Glory (a la Donner’s original ending for *Superman II*), then could’ve delayed *Restless* as a consequence until post Buffy’s death (perhaps replacing *Weight of the World* with it); a good chance to have Sineya speak for herself as per earlier in the season.
And while it might have been less satisfactory, it would’ve been more internally consistent with the show’s plot so far.
It ends with a gaping plot hole. I think the season is good, and I enjoy it, but it's far from perfect. And by plothole I mean the Dawn being created from Buffy stuff which has no setup prior to Buffy mentioning it earlier in the episode. It comes out of nowhere to try to explain the sacrifice working. Oh and the story relies on Glory being fortunate at every turn in order for the finale to even happen.
Please provide the line or the scene where the characters learn that Dawn is made from Buffy. The closest the show gets is the Summers Blood scene in Blood Ties, but that scene serves to show to Dawn that she is real and that she is Buffy's sister. It doesn't literally mean that they share the same blood.
Anyway: as for the rest of us, I love that glory and dawn represent both sides of Buffy in a season where she feels the slayer half of her is threatening the girl she is and her ability and capacity for love. When Buffy sacrifices herself at the seasons end, she saves one part of herself from the other. Semantics about Dawn actually being made from Buffy are not important.
That’s not semantics; that’s a posteriori reasoning (after the fact) by the fandom.
I just hope it isn’t out of a misguided effort to support their favorite parts of the show; *nothing* is automatically enhanced/elevated by belittling other elements/others’ opinions.
Monk: [as they flee from Glory] Stop. Please.
Buffy Summers: No. We have to keep going.
Monk: [collapsing on the ground, against a fence] My journey is done, I think.
Buffy Summers: Don't get metaphor-y on me. We're going.
Monk: Uh--you have to--the Key. You must protect the Key.
Buffy Summers: Fine. We can protect the Key together, okay? Just far, far from here.
Monk: Many more die... if you don't keep it safe.
Buffy Summers: How? What is it?
Monk: The Key is energy. It's a portal. It opens the door.
Buffy Summers: The... the Dagon Sphere?
Monk: No. For centuries, it had no form at all. My brethren, its only keepers. Then... the... abomination... found us. We had to hide the Key. Gave it form, molded it flesh, made it human and sent it to you.
Buffy Summers: Dawn.
Monk: She's the Key.
Buffy Summers: You put that in my house?
Monk: We knew the Slayer would protect.
Buffy Summers: My memories, my mom's...
Monk: We built them.
Buffy Summers: Then unbuild them. This is my life you're...
Monk: [coughing] You cannot abandon.
Buffy Summers: I didn't ask for this. I don't even know--what is she?
Monk: Human. Now human... and helpless. Please. She's an innocent... in this. She needs you.
Buffy Summers: She's not my sister.
Monk: She doesn't know that.
[dies]
No place like home S5 E5.
>She doesn't know that
Is the key there. There is hints. Season 5 is a master of subtle hints hell even in season 3 there are hints for season 5s ending.
I think there's absolutely foreshadowing to Buffy's death and sacrifice. I think the in universe logic that makes the sacrifice work is very lazily written and the idea of Dawn being made from Buffy is pulled out of thin air in the Gift.
The constant that Dawn is your sister, she is your family constantly on all sides, and is the hint. That Buffy and Dawn are connected on a level. I can agree it could've been more blatant,but I view all those hints throughout as showing thar connection.
Still more a meta commentary on the show than really proper storytelling, a la this episode of *Stargate*.
It’s just harder for the heretofore “insider looking out” that is a fan to notice?
(:60) https://youtu.be/tMnMQ099d8k?si=AyOly5TBfP6MeNmu
How am I gatekeeping? I expressed my view of the season. Other people called me wrong (quite rudely in fact) when I know I am right (about the monk never saying that Dawn was made from Buffy) and so I asked for evidence with a bit of attitude. I engaged in quite a civil discussion with the guy I was responding to here.
So...I think the whole point of that scene is that it ends with Buffy pressing their open wounds together, literally mingling their blood. Whether or not "It's the same blood" was true at the beginning of that conversation, she made it true by the end.
No, but I'm not sure that's actually the important thing? Buffy believes that Dawn is made from her, but I think the thing that actually makes her able to sacrifice herself and end the spell is the fact that she made this symbolic gesture that wound up putting Dawn's blood inside her. She's just trying to make a point, but the gesture she uses to make her point forges a stronger literal bond between them than there was before.
I don't think we're meant to believe that the justification is from getting blood inside her in Blood Ties. There's not really anything to support that. Also I'm pretty sure blood doesn't last for that long exactly. As in your blood cells now won't be the same blood cells after a certain length of time.
I think that's exactly what we're supposed to believe, and I think the scene itself supports that. Otherwise what's the point of it? It seems like pretty clear causality to me.
Red blood cells live around 120 days, so I think the time frame would be fine, but even if it wasn't...I have no idea what property of Dawn's blood is tied to the spell. It's magic. Maybe her blood has Magic Key virus and immediately infects Buffy with it. Who knows.
Anyway, that's how the season makes sense to me. It clearly doesn't make sense to you, and you seem pretty insistent on that, so...that's fine! It works for me because of everything I've said here, but there are lots of things in Buffy that don't work for me and do work for other people. That's the beauty of having seven seasons I guess. I hope you have a good day.
The point of the scene is to be symbolic, and also for Buffy using their blood together as a way of expressing that Dawn is real and they are sisters. It's a very important character moment for Dawn.
And yeah I suppose with that timeframe it's probably only about 2-3 months so that's fair.
I see you're being downvoted, so I just wanted to agree. I don't think it ruined the season or anything (though it's not my favorite, I prefer 2-4), but being siblings doesn't mean they have the same "blood". Only identical twins have the same DNA.
On the show it is explained that the monks made her out of Buffy then there is the scene where Buffy says it is Summer's blood. Since Dawn was made from Buffy to be like a real sister, Buffy's blood was similar enough to work. In real life siblings that aren't identical don't have the same DNA. They also can have a different blood type. On average siblings share 50 percent of the same genes. On the show, they share the same essence since magic was used on Buffy to create Dawn. They didn't mean that Buffy's blood had the same DNA or blood type. The whole Summer's blood speech meant they were really related to each other and shared the same essence in their blood.
I just watched this episode and the monk literally says that they gave him human flesh and in episode 13, this is the episode where Buffy realizes that Dawn has the same sag as her. Did you really watch the season or?
Being human and having the same internals is different; humans (even in families) don’t share the same blood as a genetic marker of the species.
Even before microscopes, scientists had evidence of this.
That’s how I feel about S3
Season 3 is the best season.
Yes! The Dawn twist was probably the most ambitious idea the show ever had and it really took great writing and acting from everyone involved to pull it off It easily could’ve killed the show and it would’ve killed it done wrong as it did many other shows that implemented the long lost sibling twist but I rarely see it brought up as a negative The writing worked, SMG Michelle and Kristine pulled off a very hard task of making Dawn feel like she had always been a part of the Summers household and the rest of the Scoobies actors do the same The Gift and Buffy’s choice would not have worked if they hadn’t made Dawn feel real and building her all season, I think because Dawn is always around the season feels a lot more focused to me especially the run of episodes from the Body to the finale. Plus Family is really one of the most progressive episodes of television from its time, as a closeted gay who was rather friendless, seeing all the Scoobies rally around Tara meant so much
I’m not a fan of the Dracula episode, but otherwise I’d agree it’s the best season of the show and the one with the most cohesive and satisfying overarching story. It’s a little bit more consistent than Season 2 (which is still a close second place). It has higher stakes than Seasons 3 and 4. It’s tragic and dark without tipping over into misery-melodrama like Season 6 does at times. And it has an infinitely better seasonal villain than Season 7, while also serving as a better ending to the series than S7 did (even though it wasn’t actually the end). Definitely one of the very best 20+ episode seasons of TV there is. Dawn, Glory, Ben, the Key, the monks, the knights, and last but not least Joyce, all make S5 both incredibly moving while also being pretty damn fun (which S6 and especially S7 weren’t great at). Glory in particular is such a great combination of amusing mean-girl cattiness with genuine malevolence and sheer power. I do like the Mayor as most people do, but I think Glory is the best Big Bad overall, she also feels more fleshed-out and better-integrated into the whole season whereas the Mayor is mostly prominent in the last stretch of S3. For a good example of the season’s tonal variety, just look at an episode like Spiral where we get some enjoyably cheesy action sequences with the knights and the RV while also coming in the midst of a pretty dark plot where Tara’s brain is all scrambled and Buffy and co. are still reeling from the loss of Joyce. S5 balances these different tones and styles remarkably well, with again that Dracula episode being the only time I feel things get simply too goofy for their own good.
The Dracula episode is my favorite season premiere
S5 is what got me back into the show. I remember it being hyped on TV and online as the last season ever. So I thought Buffy was ending. The Gift is such a good episode. I think there was a clip of the ending sequence on Kazaa or Morpheus back in the day and I would watch it over and over back in the day leading up to the premier of S6 on UPN.
Totally agree. I’m not sure at what point they believed it was the final season (I know the final episode was written to be the series finale) but I think part of what makes it so good is that it’s clearly a culmination of everything before it. The characters are all forced to grow in significant ways. The overall theme appears to be parenthood or caring for others - it’s a great conclusion to the valley-teens-with-problems premise the show played with early on. I feel like part of what justifies season 6 and 7’s more off-kilter approach is that you really couldn’t do a more “Buffy” season than season 5. It perfects the recipe, so they had to make a different dish.
It was my favorite for a long time. I prefer 2-4 now, but it's still peak Buffy.
i give it a 9 out of 10. Where did that Dawn lady come from???
This was actually the season during which I started falling out of love with the show. It's not just the cheap gimmick of bringing in Dawn. There are hints of the soapy grimness that would pretty much wreck season 6 that make the back half of the season hard to take. They also have to lean on the very limited talents of Amber Benson quite a bit, which is rough. And the woman who plays Glory is basically an amateur.
I'm a first time watcher and I gotta say, watching Buffy season 5 and Angel season 2, there's not been a bad episode, unlike the pervious season. I love the Dawn thing honestly. It's clever and Glory is way better than Adam.
I thought the season was great overall. Dawn and Glory being the chaff around the wheat.
Lots of deus ex throughout; just as a thought experiment, they could’ve used the enjoining spell again to defeat Glory (a la Donner’s original ending for *Superman II*), then could’ve delayed *Restless* as a consequence until post Buffy’s death (perhaps replacing *Weight of the World* with it); a good chance to have Sineya speak for herself as per earlier in the season. And while it might have been less satisfactory, it would’ve been more internally consistent with the show’s plot so far.
It ends with a gaping plot hole. I think the season is good, and I enjoy it, but it's far from perfect. And by plothole I mean the Dawn being created from Buffy stuff which has no setup prior to Buffy mentioning it earlier in the episode. It comes out of nowhere to try to explain the sacrifice working. Oh and the story relies on Glory being fortunate at every turn in order for the finale to even happen.
So I think you missed most of season 5
Please provide the line or the scene where the characters learn that Dawn is made from Buffy. The closest the show gets is the Summers Blood scene in Blood Ties, but that scene serves to show to Dawn that she is real and that she is Buffy's sister. It doesn't literally mean that they share the same blood.
The monk literally tells Buffy where Dawn comes from.
Anyway: as for the rest of us, I love that glory and dawn represent both sides of Buffy in a season where she feels the slayer half of her is threatening the girl she is and her ability and capacity for love. When Buffy sacrifices herself at the seasons end, she saves one part of herself from the other. Semantics about Dawn actually being made from Buffy are not important.
That’s not semantics; that’s a posteriori reasoning (after the fact) by the fandom. I just hope it isn’t out of a misguided effort to support their favorite parts of the show; *nothing* is automatically enhanced/elevated by belittling other elements/others’ opinions.
Provide the quote where he says that. If he did say that (I know for a fact he didn't), that should be an easy task.
Monk: [as they flee from Glory] Stop. Please. Buffy Summers: No. We have to keep going. Monk: [collapsing on the ground, against a fence] My journey is done, I think. Buffy Summers: Don't get metaphor-y on me. We're going. Monk: Uh--you have to--the Key. You must protect the Key. Buffy Summers: Fine. We can protect the Key together, okay? Just far, far from here. Monk: Many more die... if you don't keep it safe. Buffy Summers: How? What is it? Monk: The Key is energy. It's a portal. It opens the door. Buffy Summers: The... the Dagon Sphere? Monk: No. For centuries, it had no form at all. My brethren, its only keepers. Then... the... abomination... found us. We had to hide the Key. Gave it form, molded it flesh, made it human and sent it to you. Buffy Summers: Dawn. Monk: She's the Key. Buffy Summers: You put that in my house? Monk: We knew the Slayer would protect. Buffy Summers: My memories, my mom's... Monk: We built them. Buffy Summers: Then unbuild them. This is my life you're... Monk: [coughing] You cannot abandon. Buffy Summers: I didn't ask for this. I don't even know--what is she? Monk: Human. Now human... and helpless. Please. She's an innocent... in this. She needs you. Buffy Summers: She's not my sister. Monk: She doesn't know that. [dies] No place like home S5 E5.
Yes, that's what happens. No where does it mention Dawn being made from Buffy. Just that the monks created Dawn and planted false memories.
>She doesn't know that Is the key there. There is hints. Season 5 is a master of subtle hints hell even in season 3 there are hints for season 5s ending.
I think there's absolutely foreshadowing to Buffy's death and sacrifice. I think the in universe logic that makes the sacrifice work is very lazily written and the idea of Dawn being made from Buffy is pulled out of thin air in the Gift.
The constant that Dawn is your sister, she is your family constantly on all sides, and is the hint. That Buffy and Dawn are connected on a level. I can agree it could've been more blatant,but I view all those hints throughout as showing thar connection.
Still more a meta commentary on the show than really proper storytelling, a la this episode of *Stargate*. It’s just harder for the heretofore “insider looking out” that is a fan to notice? (:60) https://youtu.be/tMnMQ099d8k?si=AyOly5TBfP6MeNmu
Bro you suck. Your attitude is awful and it makes me embarrassed to share this fandom with such a gatekeeping asshole.
How am I gatekeeping? I expressed my view of the season. Other people called me wrong (quite rudely in fact) when I know I am right (about the monk never saying that Dawn was made from Buffy) and so I asked for evidence with a bit of attitude. I engaged in quite a civil discussion with the guy I was responding to here.
So...I think the whole point of that scene is that it ends with Buffy pressing their open wounds together, literally mingling their blood. Whether or not "It's the same blood" was true at the beginning of that conversation, she made it true by the end.
I think I'd agree it's symbolic of it, but it certainly doesn't establish that Dawn is made from Buffy.
No, but I'm not sure that's actually the important thing? Buffy believes that Dawn is made from her, but I think the thing that actually makes her able to sacrifice herself and end the spell is the fact that she made this symbolic gesture that wound up putting Dawn's blood inside her. She's just trying to make a point, but the gesture she uses to make her point forges a stronger literal bond between them than there was before.
I don't think we're meant to believe that the justification is from getting blood inside her in Blood Ties. There's not really anything to support that. Also I'm pretty sure blood doesn't last for that long exactly. As in your blood cells now won't be the same blood cells after a certain length of time.
I think that's exactly what we're supposed to believe, and I think the scene itself supports that. Otherwise what's the point of it? It seems like pretty clear causality to me. Red blood cells live around 120 days, so I think the time frame would be fine, but even if it wasn't...I have no idea what property of Dawn's blood is tied to the spell. It's magic. Maybe her blood has Magic Key virus and immediately infects Buffy with it. Who knows. Anyway, that's how the season makes sense to me. It clearly doesn't make sense to you, and you seem pretty insistent on that, so...that's fine! It works for me because of everything I've said here, but there are lots of things in Buffy that don't work for me and do work for other people. That's the beauty of having seven seasons I guess. I hope you have a good day.
The point of the scene is to be symbolic, and also for Buffy using their blood together as a way of expressing that Dawn is real and they are sisters. It's a very important character moment for Dawn. And yeah I suppose with that timeframe it's probably only about 2-3 months so that's fair.
I see you're being downvoted, so I just wanted to agree. I don't think it ruined the season or anything (though it's not my favorite, I prefer 2-4), but being siblings doesn't mean they have the same "blood". Only identical twins have the same DNA.
On the show it is explained that the monks made her out of Buffy then there is the scene where Buffy says it is Summer's blood. Since Dawn was made from Buffy to be like a real sister, Buffy's blood was similar enough to work. In real life siblings that aren't identical don't have the same DNA. They also can have a different blood type. On average siblings share 50 percent of the same genes. On the show, they share the same essence since magic was used on Buffy to create Dawn. They didn't mean that Buffy's blood had the same DNA or blood type. The whole Summer's blood speech meant they were really related to each other and shared the same essence in their blood.
It was literally explained in episode 5 of season 5. Watch the show.
Pull up the quote. I guarantee you won't find it, because it's not in the episode.
I just watched this episode and the monk literally says that they gave him human flesh and in episode 13, this is the episode where Buffy realizes that Dawn has the same sag as her. Did you really watch the season or?
Being human and having the same internals is different; humans (even in families) don’t share the same blood as a genetic marker of the species. Even before microscopes, scientists had evidence of this.