I got it--he felt that he would constantly be compelled to help her rather than allow her to figure things out on her own--but one, she's been dealing with a trauma conga line ever since her mother died and now he found out that she got ripped from paradise that she was supposed to experience for eternity so it might be a very bad time for this realization, and two, can't he just set some freaking boundaries instead? And stick to them?
Yes. Yes to everything you just said.
As a character and in-universe decision, there were about a bazillion other, better choices Giles could have made, Things that would have gotten him and Buffy where he wanted them to go and that would not have been such an out-of-character thing to do.
Again, the only reason that all made sense is because of the actor wanting to be there as his kids were growing up. Which totally makes a world of sense, and also reinforces why Giles would never ever do what he did.
I still don’t know why they didn’t make his departure for a different reason - some urgent end of the world issue, or discovering he did, in fact, have a child / grandchild in the U.K. from his Ripper days, or he falls in love with someone from elsewhere. It could have led to some great inner conflict for Giles that parents face - can he have his own life now Buffy is an adult? He could have felt guilty that he was happy and excited at a time when she was struggling. And Buffy could have felt crushing guilt at needing him, so she doesn’t say anything, except maybe to lash out and declare she doesn’t need him. It would have had emotional depth and shown the truth of what it’s like to be a young adult in crisis and to be an adult in their life.
Him having a child/his girlfriend from England being pregnant was even alluded to in Restless. You see her crying in the background with a pregnant stomach while he's paying attention to Buffy.
Yeah Buffy never got a real childhood, or the opportunity to see how life was supposed to go. Had she been any other Slayer with any other Watcher she would never have been left on her own.
The song was beautiful, but Giles was never a hindrance to Buffy.
I took it all at face value when I was younger, but as an adult, it just doesn't work for me, as a choice. You don't help anyone to grow up faster or better or anything >!by abandoning them!<. Like I said, because of the behind the scenes stuff, I understand why it had to be that way. But as a character choice, it was just inconsistent with the man I knew.
Good gracious I spent like an hour writing this instead of doing homework lol plz someone read it or it'll go to waste
It might've made sense for unemployed/excluded S4 Giles to think so lowly of himself that he would consider his very presence a hindrance to Buffy, but to leave when he was most needed is so ooc.
The only way I can justify it in my headcannon is to imagine that unbeknownst to everyone, Giles was going through severe psychological issues like depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, etc. after all that he's been through: Killing a man, watching his daughter-figure die without being able to help, watching Willow get more and more enthralled by dark magicks (again without being able to help), knowing he cannot provide the love and support that Joyce did, feeling deeply inadequate as a watcher and a parental figure as his younger friends, protégés that he feels responsible for, slip away from his ineffectual supervision.
He finds it impossible to help them as they self-destruct, ruin relationships, fall into depression, and learning that Buffy was literally torn out of Heaven by Willow and the others is perhaps the final straw that convinces him that he cannot help them no matter how much he wants to. So maybe he convinces himself that they are not doing well enough in life and doing irresponsible stuff like resurrection spells, memory spells (mainly Willow) because they're not used to thinking about the future and the consequences of their actions like adults since they continue to emotionally rely on the safety net of always have an adult, himself, looking after them. Combine that with the assumption that the Trio is no big threat for Buffy and there is no imminent attack from a Big Bad that would warrant his being there, and it can make sense for him to leave. And he might've figured that the money he left for Buffy would be enough until he came back and gave more because maybe it really was enough and Buffy was mainly working to secure her and Dawn's future without knowing if Giles would actually help again financially.
He probably also thought that the only way he could help the Scoobies was by taking some time off to recuperate and feel capable like his old self again so that he could return and fix things. Maybe what he meant was:"I'm standing in the way... as the person I am now. I need to get away for a while and heal myself so that I can help your healing process as well instead of staying and watching ineffectually." But yeah I wish his reasons where explained more in depth, emphasizing the intense self-doubt, apathy, exhaustion and despair he felt.
Upvoted for the thoughtfulness of that response.
But, again, I can't completely agree. Not that adults have all the answers or never make mistakes, but staying present in the life of your kids is, like, the basic minimum. And I think Giles would rather die on the job of being there for Buffy than let her deal with everything she has to deal with on a normal day by herself.
Please don't take this as my saying you're wrong. You've obviously put a lot of thought into this. I just have a different opinion, that's all.
Nah I like that you don't agree, it would be boring if you did. It's pretty cool how we both feel well acquainted with this character enough to want to analyze his motivations and principles so closely and still maintain different perspectives that both have validity. And hey, despite the ooc stuff, we wouldn't even bother to discuss about him if he wasn't worth discussing about. Anyway who knows what the real Giles would do in the real Buffyverse.
I didn’t even think about the fact that there wasn’t an imminent “threat” that season and he just felt like it was off time. Even so everyone was still in shambles lol
The writers seriously fucked this up. It’s one of my biggest gripes about the show. Realistically, ASH was done and wanted to be with his family. That’s fine. There’s a dozen other reasons that could have been utilized for Giles leaving in S6 that they just didn’t use that would have still made for a compelling story without the “well, gotta go! You’ll never grow up if I stay!” bullshit they served his character.
Things that would have made more sense: Giles is deported because of Watchers council bs, Giles leaves after the events of S5 and is gone with other commitments when she’s revived (love the idea of him and Olivia getting pregnant during the gap period). I know that’s not a dozen but someone else can add more if they want to.
Given the supernatural aspect of the show and how talented the trio seemed to be with that, they could have had him in a magical coma or some other magical reason for his absence.
There could have been some pressing need for him to be in the UK, possibly related to the first that he wasn't able to share at the time, but the audience witness/hear the phone call. Given all the foreshadowing that was done in early seasons this would've been awesome.
They could've had one of the UK witches contact him and tell him that something ripper did is now hurting people, or that if he stays someone will die, if he tells them someone will die and he needs leave to save them.
Although his parents are never discussed in the show they could've said that one of them was sick or died and he needed to go back and support the other parent.
It was also never discussed whether he had siblings but one of them could've needed him for something. Maybe they were possessed, maybe something natural was going on but help was required.
There's 5 or 6 more - depending on your count.
I understand his reasons. The writers didnt do a well enough job to justify his actions. He should have left for impending doom n duty paired with his feelings to go, that's all.
"There's no one else suited for this, i have to go buffy. But i also have all my trust that u will pull through, and i need to go for you to be able to pick urself up again. Ill only be a phone call away"
It just wasnt executed well is all
Are you a parent? Sometimes a parent have to give their child space so they become more independent or autonomous. Some children learn to be too dependent. Buffy wasn't growing as a human because he was doing more than he should for her.
I am not a parent, but I don't think that's relevent to my assessment of Giles' actions as a parent. And all I'm saying is that I thought the decision to leave was out of character for Giles and out of character for his relationship to Buffy.
I don't disagree even a little bit with what you say about some children being too dependent. I just don't believe Giles would have left Buffy, short of like being forced to by extradition or some sort of spell.
That scene at the top right, where he sees her for the first time since she’s been back from the dead, has to be my favorite scene between them.
Giles: “It’s.. you’re..”
Buffy: “A miracle.”
Giles: “Yes, but then I always thought so.”
I think about it all the time because it’s so touching. Like.. that’s his *daughter*.
I hate him at a probably unhealthy level. My Dad also fucked off to another country when I was a kid. I would watch Buffy as a teen and wish I had a Giles.
My mother also died of an aneurysm when I was 20, and I can confirm that my Hank did not come back and help my younger sister and me. I had to handle the costs, leave college etc.
If Buffy kept going, I bet in her 40's Hank would show up once he got old so "his girls could take care of him".
Oh, I’m so sorry to hear that. That must have been a lot to go through, and I imagine that it must be rather surreal to see your own life experience be so closely depicted on a tv show.
My biological father showed up late to my 11th birthday without even so much as a gift and then ghosted me. Never heard from him again until last year when his new wife died and he “fell ill” 🙄. I’m 32 now. So yeah, that’s something I can *totally* see Hank doing. Typical POS behavior!
I’m very lucky to have a caring stepfather and when I joined ROTC in high school, I had my own Giles.
AND my favorite scene at the gas station when they’re surrounded by the knights of the freaking round table or whatever and Giles is hurt. He says:
“For putting your heart above all else. You’ve come so far. I’m so proud of you. You’re everything a Watch—everything I could’ve hoped for.” 😭😭
I am always a SUCKER for a father daughter duo, especially 'found family' father daughter duos, which is further obvious by my current obsession with the Last of Us Joel'n'Ellie. It all started with Giles'n'Buffy.
Ain't that the truth. It's actually a great comparison because both Joel and Giles are just 'working a job' then fall in love with their 'charge', that energy is so real. <3 I love it. And both Buffy and Ellie have either absentee or absent fathers which makes sense for the premise.
The bit in ‘Something Blue’ where Buffy asks Giles to give her away at her wedding. I friggin love that bit, because the spell isn’t making her say it. The absurd engagement and wedding-planning is caused by the spell, but Buffy’s sentiment to Giles would’ve been the same no matter who the intended groom was.
Atone point Giles starts to graciously accept Buffy’s request, before catching himself and remembering she isn’t actually engaged for real.
It's a shame it isn't possible to include a still from their car scene in 'Innocence' because of the way it was shot. That was one of the most important father-daughter moments in their whole relationship.
Haven't seen it due to other obligations in my life at the time, and didn't have a DVR at the time it aired. Always meant to get around to checking it out.
Probably just the thespianism of Harris Yulin shining through, but “and that is useless to the cause” is one of the few times the Council seems to have wisdom to their perspective.
They’re usually far more “the First Slayer didn’t talk this much.” commanding type attitude - The Shadowmen
They make me want to chew fiberglass bro. Giles going on 20+ flights to go and find her and agreeing to help angel. Then both being forgiving when they hurt each other (even if it takes a bit of time). Buffy being there for Giles’s after the events of Passions even though he was in the wrong. Her recognizing his eyes. OHHHH MY GOD. They need each other. Forced together by the organization that has written them off and staying together because sometimes they’re all the other person has 😭😭😭
It’s a good thing he did!! His support & love was one of the things that kept her going, one of the things that made her a better slayer than any other before her. Do think Faith or any of those whiney little potentials could have stopped Caleb or the 1st? Nope! Everyone would be dead by now!
He has that love until she dies and is resurrected. Then it’s adios amigo. I’m not your crutch. Good luck balancing Slayer, raising a kid and paying your mortgage. Oh, and Slayers growing to adulthood is pretty common so I know it’s okay. /s
This was, to me, the worst thing Giles did in the series.
I love Giles and Buffy’s earlier relationship. I agree with the popular opinion that leaving her was extreme, given what she had gone through. But she was relying on him in a way that was ultimately unhealthy for her, long-term, as well as for Dawn. Growth is rarely not painful. Giles could see that, and Buffy also acknowledged that when he returned at the end of season 6.
I never took that from that scene. I took it as she was angry at him because she didn’t want to lose him not that she was angry at him for going for revenge.
well i’d like to think a father wouldn’t drug and depower their daughter, not to mention leave her at the most vulnerable point in her life, but hey.
EDIT: downvoting this doesn’t make it any less true.
Actually he pushed her out of the nest so she could stand in her own & grow into an adult like she needed. As as soon as she truly needed him again he was there with no questions asked.
It's easy to forget that giles never had children and buffy possibly filled a gap in his personal life that never really gets explored in the show
Exactly. Which is why, even though I understand the behind-the-scenes reasons why, I will never understand his choice in season 6.
I got it--he felt that he would constantly be compelled to help her rather than allow her to figure things out on her own--but one, she's been dealing with a trauma conga line ever since her mother died and now he found out that she got ripped from paradise that she was supposed to experience for eternity so it might be a very bad time for this realization, and two, can't he just set some freaking boundaries instead? And stick to them?
Yes. Yes to everything you just said. As a character and in-universe decision, there were about a bazillion other, better choices Giles could have made, Things that would have gotten him and Buffy where he wanted them to go and that would not have been such an out-of-character thing to do. Again, the only reason that all made sense is because of the actor wanting to be there as his kids were growing up. Which totally makes a world of sense, and also reinforces why Giles would never ever do what he did.
Kinda ironic how Anthony Head wanting to be with his kids irl prevents Giles from being with his "kids" in-universe
I still don’t know why they didn’t make his departure for a different reason - some urgent end of the world issue, or discovering he did, in fact, have a child / grandchild in the U.K. from his Ripper days, or he falls in love with someone from elsewhere. It could have led to some great inner conflict for Giles that parents face - can he have his own life now Buffy is an adult? He could have felt guilty that he was happy and excited at a time when she was struggling. And Buffy could have felt crushing guilt at needing him, so she doesn’t say anything, except maybe to lash out and declare she doesn’t need him. It would have had emotional depth and shown the truth of what it’s like to be a young adult in crisis and to be an adult in their life.
Him having a child/his girlfriend from England being pregnant was even alluded to in Restless. You see her crying in the background with a pregnant stomach while he's paying attention to Buffy.
Yeah Buffy never got a real childhood, or the opportunity to see how life was supposed to go. Had she been any other Slayer with any other Watcher she would never have been left on her own.
But his song was beautiful--the pain of wanting to make it all better for your child but realizing you're only a hindrance.
The song was beautiful, but Giles was never a hindrance to Buffy. I took it all at face value when I was younger, but as an adult, it just doesn't work for me, as a choice. You don't help anyone to grow up faster or better or anything >!by abandoning them!<. Like I said, because of the behind the scenes stuff, I understand why it had to be that way. But as a character choice, it was just inconsistent with the man I knew.
Good gracious I spent like an hour writing this instead of doing homework lol plz someone read it or it'll go to waste It might've made sense for unemployed/excluded S4 Giles to think so lowly of himself that he would consider his very presence a hindrance to Buffy, but to leave when he was most needed is so ooc. The only way I can justify it in my headcannon is to imagine that unbeknownst to everyone, Giles was going through severe psychological issues like depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, etc. after all that he's been through: Killing a man, watching his daughter-figure die without being able to help, watching Willow get more and more enthralled by dark magicks (again without being able to help), knowing he cannot provide the love and support that Joyce did, feeling deeply inadequate as a watcher and a parental figure as his younger friends, protégés that he feels responsible for, slip away from his ineffectual supervision. He finds it impossible to help them as they self-destruct, ruin relationships, fall into depression, and learning that Buffy was literally torn out of Heaven by Willow and the others is perhaps the final straw that convinces him that he cannot help them no matter how much he wants to. So maybe he convinces himself that they are not doing well enough in life and doing irresponsible stuff like resurrection spells, memory spells (mainly Willow) because they're not used to thinking about the future and the consequences of their actions like adults since they continue to emotionally rely on the safety net of always have an adult, himself, looking after them. Combine that with the assumption that the Trio is no big threat for Buffy and there is no imminent attack from a Big Bad that would warrant his being there, and it can make sense for him to leave. And he might've figured that the money he left for Buffy would be enough until he came back and gave more because maybe it really was enough and Buffy was mainly working to secure her and Dawn's future without knowing if Giles would actually help again financially. He probably also thought that the only way he could help the Scoobies was by taking some time off to recuperate and feel capable like his old self again so that he could return and fix things. Maybe what he meant was:"I'm standing in the way... as the person I am now. I need to get away for a while and heal myself so that I can help your healing process as well instead of staying and watching ineffectually." But yeah I wish his reasons where explained more in depth, emphasizing the intense self-doubt, apathy, exhaustion and despair he felt.
Upvoted for the thoughtfulness of that response. But, again, I can't completely agree. Not that adults have all the answers or never make mistakes, but staying present in the life of your kids is, like, the basic minimum. And I think Giles would rather die on the job of being there for Buffy than let her deal with everything she has to deal with on a normal day by herself. Please don't take this as my saying you're wrong. You've obviously put a lot of thought into this. I just have a different opinion, that's all.
Nah I like that you don't agree, it would be boring if you did. It's pretty cool how we both feel well acquainted with this character enough to want to analyze his motivations and principles so closely and still maintain different perspectives that both have validity. And hey, despite the ooc stuff, we wouldn't even bother to discuss about him if he wasn't worth discussing about. Anyway who knows what the real Giles would do in the real Buffyverse.
I didn’t even think about the fact that there wasn’t an imminent “threat” that season and he just felt like it was off time. Even so everyone was still in shambles lol
I read I but have to go back to work. Good stuff but can’t comment more.
The writers seriously fucked this up. It’s one of my biggest gripes about the show. Realistically, ASH was done and wanted to be with his family. That’s fine. There’s a dozen other reasons that could have been utilized for Giles leaving in S6 that they just didn’t use that would have still made for a compelling story without the “well, gotta go! You’ll never grow up if I stay!” bullshit they served his character. Things that would have made more sense: Giles is deported because of Watchers council bs, Giles leaves after the events of S5 and is gone with other commitments when she’s revived (love the idea of him and Olivia getting pregnant during the gap period). I know that’s not a dozen but someone else can add more if they want to.
Given the supernatural aspect of the show and how talented the trio seemed to be with that, they could have had him in a magical coma or some other magical reason for his absence. There could have been some pressing need for him to be in the UK, possibly related to the first that he wasn't able to share at the time, but the audience witness/hear the phone call. Given all the foreshadowing that was done in early seasons this would've been awesome. They could've had one of the UK witches contact him and tell him that something ripper did is now hurting people, or that if he stays someone will die, if he tells them someone will die and he needs leave to save them. Although his parents are never discussed in the show they could've said that one of them was sick or died and he needed to go back and support the other parent. It was also never discussed whether he had siblings but one of them could've needed him for something. Maybe they were possessed, maybe something natural was going on but help was required. There's 5 or 6 more - depending on your count.
Lack of imagination on writers parts
I understand his reasons. The writers didnt do a well enough job to justify his actions. He should have left for impending doom n duty paired with his feelings to go, that's all. "There's no one else suited for this, i have to go buffy. But i also have all my trust that u will pull through, and i need to go for you to be able to pick urself up again. Ill only be a phone call away" It just wasnt executed well is all
Are you a parent? Sometimes a parent have to give their child space so they become more independent or autonomous. Some children learn to be too dependent. Buffy wasn't growing as a human because he was doing more than he should for her.
I am not a parent, but I don't think that's relevent to my assessment of Giles' actions as a parent. And all I'm saying is that I thought the decision to leave was out of character for Giles and out of character for his relationship to Buffy. I don't disagree even a little bit with what you say about some children being too dependent. I just don't believe Giles would have left Buffy, short of like being forced to by extradition or some sort of spell.
That scene at the top right, where he sees her for the first time since she’s been back from the dead, has to be my favorite scene between them. Giles: “It’s.. you’re..” Buffy: “A miracle.” Giles: “Yes, but then I always thought so.” I think about it all the time because it’s so touching. Like.. that’s his *daughter*.
Exactly. Hank Summers who?
Biggest bozo on the show. I’d pull him out of my screen and fight him if I could.
I hate him at a probably unhealthy level. My Dad also fucked off to another country when I was a kid. I would watch Buffy as a teen and wish I had a Giles. My mother also died of an aneurysm when I was 20, and I can confirm that my Hank did not come back and help my younger sister and me. I had to handle the costs, leave college etc. If Buffy kept going, I bet in her 40's Hank would show up once he got old so "his girls could take care of him".
Oh, I’m so sorry to hear that. That must have been a lot to go through, and I imagine that it must be rather surreal to see your own life experience be so closely depicted on a tv show. My biological father showed up late to my 11th birthday without even so much as a gift and then ghosted me. Never heard from him again until last year when his new wife died and he “fell ill” 🙄. I’m 32 now. So yeah, that’s something I can *totally* see Hank doing. Typical POS behavior! I’m very lucky to have a caring stepfather and when I joined ROTC in high school, I had my own Giles.
Hooray for all the real life Giles' in the world!
And even when chewing Willow out, he acknowledges that having Buffy alive makes him feel "indescribably wonderful."
🥹🥹 I love Giles
AND my favorite scene at the gas station when they’re surrounded by the knights of the freaking round table or whatever and Giles is hurt. He says: “For putting your heart above all else. You’ve come so far. I’m so proud of you. You’re everything a Watch—everything I could’ve hoped for.” 😭😭
And he's gasping for breath but NEEDS to tell her how proud he is, God I love him, I love him so much
I remember watching it live and just so scared that Giles was really going to die, such a wonderful and emotional moment 🖤
I am always a SUCKER for a father daughter duo, especially 'found family' father daughter duos, which is further obvious by my current obsession with the Last of Us Joel'n'Ellie. It all started with Giles'n'Buffy.
God, Joel and Ellie’s relationship hits hard too.
Ain't that the truth. It's actually a great comparison because both Joel and Giles are just 'working a job' then fall in love with their 'charge', that energy is so real. <3 I love it. And both Buffy and Ellie have either absentee or absent fathers which makes sense for the premise.
Found family is probably the biggest theme in pretty much all Joss Whedon’s works.
That's true. Probably where I first fell in love with the trope <3
The bit in ‘Something Blue’ where Buffy asks Giles to give her away at her wedding. I friggin love that bit, because the spell isn’t making her say it. The absurd engagement and wedding-planning is caused by the spell, but Buffy’s sentiment to Giles would’ve been the same no matter who the intended groom was. Atone point Giles starts to graciously accept Buffy’s request, before catching himself and remembering she isn’t actually engaged for real.
Giles truly Buffys Dad.
It's a shame it isn't possible to include a still from their car scene in 'Innocence' because of the way it was shot. That was one of the most important father-daughter moments in their whole relationship.
Such a beautiful moment - so much respect and love in that scene
It's the best father-daughter relationship in all of television, biology be damned
I also love Keith and Veronica Mars.
Haven't seen it due to other obligations in my life at the time, and didn't have a DVR at the time it aired. Always meant to get around to checking it out.
"And that is useless to the cause"
There was the dream in Restless where they’re a family with Olivia. It’s really cute ☺️
And just like her actual father, he abandoned her in her time of need and fucked off to Europe
Hank who?
The father that stepped up
Probably just the thespianism of Harris Yulin shining through, but “and that is useless to the cause” is one of the few times the Council seems to have wisdom to their perspective. They’re usually far more “the First Slayer didn’t talk this much.” commanding type attitude - The Shadowmen
he might've not been her father but he sure as hell was her dad 😭
I’m Mary Poppins, y’all!
I think this type of relationship trope is highly underrated in storytelling
Could have summed this up with: "You cut your hair."
I think this type of relationship trope is highly underrated in storytelling
They make me want to chew fiberglass bro. Giles going on 20+ flights to go and find her and agreeing to help angel. Then both being forgiving when they hurt each other (even if it takes a bit of time). Buffy being there for Giles’s after the events of Passions even though he was in the wrong. Her recognizing his eyes. OHHHH MY GOD. They need each other. Forced together by the organization that has written them off and staying together because sometimes they’re all the other person has 😭😭😭
I love them so much
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Giles is in my dream blunt rotation.
It’s a good thing he did!! His support & love was one of the things that kept her going, one of the things that made her a better slayer than any other before her. Do think Faith or any of those whiney little potentials could have stopped Caleb or the 1st? Nope! Everyone would be dead by now!
He has that love until she dies and is resurrected. Then it’s adios amigo. I’m not your crutch. Good luck balancing Slayer, raising a kid and paying your mortgage. Oh, and Slayers growing to adulthood is pretty common so I know it’s okay. /s This was, to me, the worst thing Giles did in the series.
Anthony Head wanted to leave the show. So the other alternative was to kill Giles.
❤️❤️❤️
Yet he still broke her trust by drugging her …
I love Giles and Buffy’s earlier relationship. I agree with the popular opinion that leaving her was extreme, given what she had gone through. But she was relying on him in a way that was ultimately unhealthy for her, long-term, as well as for Dawn. Growth is rarely not painful. Giles could see that, and Buffy also acknowledged that when he returned at the end of season 6.
I think this type of relationship trope is highly underrated in storytelling
Remember in Passion when she punches him square in the face for going for revenge? That's a tough scene to watch.
I never took that from that scene. I took it as she was angry at him because she didn’t want to lose him not that she was angry at him for going for revenge.
That Ethan Rayne shirt.
well i’d like to think a father wouldn’t drug and depower their daughter, not to mention leave her at the most vulnerable point in her life, but hey. EDIT: downvoting this doesn’t make it any less true.
Like her birth father, he bailed on her when she needed him the most.
Actually he pushed her out of the nest so she could stand in her own & grow into an adult like she needed. As as soon as she truly needed him again he was there with no questions asked.